#6

[husaberg]

Another lesson learned. Actually it's an old lesson that I have been reminded of. I've measured the cam timing as installed using the marks. It was way off and made no sense. Amazing it ran actually it was so far off, with the intake closing VERY late, hence the blowback from the carbs. I spent a bit of time trying to find why and finally found it. The holes in the end bosses which I used as timing marks aren't timing marks. They are probably used in the manufacture of the cams as the holes line up with the lobes.

The timing marks are actually little indents in the outer rim of the bosses on the end of the cams which line up with little nipples on the top of the cam bearing caps on the left of the engine. The left of the engine is gone but the cams still needed to be located in the head so I flipped them over. They now actually rotate backwards compared to original. It's OK as the cam lobes are symmetrical. The problem is that I can't line up the proper timing marks as when the cams are installed originally the lobes will be at a certain angle and the valve stems and tappets are at another angle. With the cams flipped over the lobes are still the same angle but from the cams point of view the vavle angle is now in the other direction. I have to make an allowance of twice the valve inclined angle.

I had to give it up earlier as it was doing my head in. I've found the problem though so it's just a matter of getting it back together properly, and measuring it to make sure. I'll punch a mark in each bearing cap for cam alignment once I have it sorted.

Doesn't say at what lift the measurement is. But i knew i had seen it somewhere.
http://my-x15.net/fzr250/FZR250%20specs.pdf

I have thought i had workshop manual somewhere.But I can only find a 2kr parts manual
Do you have a few left over 3ln front calipers lurking about Mike?

[speedpro]

Pretty sure I do. Their condition is likely to be less than optimal as they are just sitting in a box. You are welcome to them.

You could help me as well. I'm interested in the internals of the airbox, particularly the velocity stack dimensions. The budget is stopping me getting the FI at the moment plus I'm having thoughts about the best options seeing as I want to use FI on the MB engines as well. I've read somewhere the Caltrans system only runs to 12,000rpm on the 2 strokes plus it seems I'd need to buy a completely different system. It makes the Link system a bit more attractive as it could be transferred, plus Neil is using one.

[husaberg]

Pretty sure I do. Their condition is likely to be less than optimal as they are just sitting in a box. You are welcome to them.

You could help me as well. I'm interested in the internals of the airbox, particularly the velocity stack dimensions. The budget is stopping me getting the FI at the moment plus I'm having thoughts about the best options seeing as I want to use FI on the MB engines as well. I've read somewhere the Caltrans system only runs to 12,000rpm on the 2 strokes plus it seems I'd need to buy a completely different system. It makes the Link system a bit more attractive as it could be transferred, plus Neil is using one.

I might have some or at least part of one, There is a couple of boxes full of FZR250 engine bits.I will have a ferret
There is a thread on a CBR250 in Aussie (i think)where some students made there own Fi system.

If i don't have any it might be worth asking on the fzr250 site there is heaps of stuff on there.

But its not this one http://projectcbr250rri.blogspot.co.nz/

i think the one i remember they made the ECU from scratch.

This one i think?
http://feralinjection.com/cbr/cbr2.html

off the FZR the site i think? 3LN
Checked all jets those i could)and are the following:
Main Jets: 1&4 102.5 2&3 100
Jet Needle: all have 5CT7 written near the top.I also dropped the needles to the lowest. That is the little circlip is at the top most slit)
Pilot Air Jets: 105
Pilot Jets: 12.5
Pilot screw as always 3 turns out from full in
Starter jets: 37.5
The emulssion tubes all have N-8 written on the side.


2kr jets
engine idle: 1600rpm
Jet needle: 4DV1
needle clip: 3rd clip from bottom
pilot screw: 3 turns
main nozzle: N-8
pilot jet: #15 (#17.5 for 88-89 w/ exup according to a shop who has access to the genuine parts catalogue, my non exup is #15, so I cannot confirm the size for exup)
main jet: 72.5
starter jet: GS1 17.5 GS2 0.5
float height: 17.5 - 19.5 mm
vacuum: 145mmHG @ 1600rpm
CO: 3.5 - 4.5% @ 1600rpm

When i was going to do one i was going to use a set up off a SRV250 or Viargo as i think it was 2mm smaller and smaller carbs are supposed to be better for blown 4 strokes from what i could make out.( I think they lean out less)

[husaberg]

I had a go through the shed Mike, sorry no bell mouths or air box bit's at all.
2x pretty complete engines (dissembled) 1 seemingly full set of carbs dissembled (odd slide set up plastic ...)
if you need anything just holler.
From the picture they look equal length which is odd, most of the Honda's i have seen run unequal length tubes.

[speedpro]

From observing the standoff when running the bike on the dyno they are way short anyway so probably not any attempt made at tuning but just connecting to the airbox.

[speedpro]

Well in the tradition of tight arsed bucket racers I've dragged an old Haltech E6A "kit" out of the cupboard. I've chopped the loom all up years ago and fitted it to my McIntosh. I just can't bring myself to buy a new Link system. I've already come across a couple of limitations just going through the manual. First is that is is only good for a max of 16,000rpm. I'm pretty sure there will be a way around that, likely by running the triggers all off the camshafts, which is why I extended the end bosses out through seals on the end plate. It's also a bit dated with what it will accept as a trigger and probably will require some sort of conditioner or pulse generator. If using a multi-tooth trigger it is limited to 9000rpm. Reading the manual shows that it has a few nice options, like staged injectors. It only fires one up to a certain load point then fires the first and a second simultaneously thereafter. You can also set the start OR end point of the injection event. You can also fire the injectors in a couple of different modes. I can probably generate the home signal off the camshaft and the actual ignition trigger off the crank for accuracy. It also can't drive ignition coils directly and needs an amplifier. I already have a single channel which the kit came with and a dual channel I bought. I'll need to dummy it up on the bench to see what it's good for.

[Pickle]

Michael let me know what bits you need for the FZR motor as we have numerous motors, frames etc here at work in the wreckers, couple of complete bikes sitting there too. Should be able to get them at good price for you if want

[speedpro]

I'm pretty right at the moment.
We have racing this weekend after which the following weekend I want to see Wobbly to get him look over a few motors. I'll check out his generator system and depending on how it looks might be interested in getting the whole right side generator rotor, stator, and crankcase covers. I've pretty much decided to go for a Caltrons Kawasaki 250 Ninja FI system. The old Haltech system I have is pretty restricted with a low 16,000rpm rev limit and sensor/trigger limitations. I should get a Link Atom ECU but just don't have the money. I checked out Rob's Ecotrons kit in the weekend and it's hard to argue with the value for money and everything is the right size and not built to run a 250+hp car. Plus the throttle body is a near perfect fit on the FZR. On that note it would be a great upgrade for a street FZR. Just use two throttle bodies and double up the injectors. I need to check triggering myself for my project yet but it should be doable.

[speedpro]

Ecotrons Kawasaki 250 Ninja system has been ordered. Turns out the FZR alternator rotor has exactly the same 4 tooth setup as the Kawasaki and it also had a single crank pickup. So I'm fitting a stock FZR alternator back on the motor and just wiring it up to the Ecotrons system. Not looking forward to the wife spotting the VISA card statement. It would seem to make sense as well to make my own engine dyno using some software from OZ. Might wait for things to settle down before doing that.

[speedpro]

The box of goodies arrived a few days after I paid. The throttle bodies are a little rough as expected but are still good value for the price. I'm trying to get my head around the tuning technique. Just reading the manuals at the moment and connecting it up on the bench to the PC. It seems reasonably sophisticated and therefore complex. At lower revs it uses the MAP sensor and revs to determine fuelling and switches to TPS and revs above certain revs and TPS settings at points defined in a table.

I'm on the lookout for a late model FZR250 (3LN model) #4 carb mounting flange. These are short and straight and fit the older (2KR) head like I have used. I tried the 2KR flanges and though the TB fits in the TPS is touching the frame. With the shorter flanges the TPS is well below the frame and I can get the connector on. The 3LN has four unique carb flanges while the 2KR only had left and right. Husaberg is checking for me, but if anyone in Auckland has an older 2KR engine, I am also after the whole generator/trigger/rotor off the right side of the engine. I'm pretty sure I've used a crankshaft from the early engine which has a smaller taper on the end of the crank. I then used the centre from that rotor to fit my degree wheel. The rotor I have has a different taper in it which is bigger. I need the trigger for the ECU and the alternator bits to make power to run the whole lot. Even a stator with a blown winding will be OK as I will probably only use 1 phase anyway depending on load. If I run all 3 phases the regulator will be doing overtime dumping the excess to ground.

[husaberg]

The box of goodies arrived a few days after I paid. The throttle bodies are a little rough as expected but are still good value for the price. I'm trying to get my head around the tuning technique. Just reading the manuals at the moment and connecting it up on the bench to the PC. It seems reasonably sophisticated and therefore complex. At lower revs it uses the MAP sensor and revs to determine fuelling and switches to TPS and revs above certain revs and TPS settings at points defined in a table.

I'm on the lookout for a late model FZR250 (3LN model) #4 carb mounting flange. These are short and straight and fit the older (2KR) head like I have used. I tried the 2KR flanges and though the TB fits in the TPS is touching the frame. With the shorter flanges the TPS is well below the frame and I can get the connector on. The 3LN has four unique carb flanges while the 2KR only had left and right. Husaberg is checking for me, but if anyone in Auckland has an older 2KR engine, I am also after the whole generator/trigger/rotor off the right side of the engine. I'm pretty sure I've used a crankshaft from the early engine which has a smaller taper on the end of the crank. I then used the centre from that rotor to fit my degree wheel. The rotor I have has a different taper in it which is bigger. I need the trigger for the ECU and the alternator bits to make power to run the whole lot. Even a stator with a blown winding will be OK as I will probably only use 1 phase anyway depending on load. If I run all 3 phases the regulator will be doing overtime dumping the excess to ground.

Look no more for the inlet anyway......found all the bits will do the measure thing tomorrow..........the inlet actually say 3ln so i are guessing that's what it is
The rotor has lKZ01 on it plus 037 000 2110 11 FZ

[speedpro]

Cool. The manifold should also have the number 4 on it. I'm talking about the right most one when looking down the intake ports. I'll compare the rotor to the good one I have that doesn't fit.

[speedpro]

Got the bits from Husaberg. The stator and pickup are all good and I managed to get the end of the broken crankshaft out of the rotor. I now know that Yamaha used at least 3 different crankshafts in their FZR250s. The rotor that Husaberg sent has a taper that is 20mm across the large diameter. The one off the crankshaft in the engine is 21.5mm and the good rotor I have off the other engine's crankshaft is even bigger. Still I can get going with wiring and checking the timing of the trigger teeth on the rotor. Both rotors have the same tooth layout so at least something looks consistent.

So, still looking for a rotor.

[husaberg]

Got the bits from Husaberg. The stator and pickup are all good and I managed to get the end of the broken crankshaft out of the rotor. I now know that Yamaha used at least 3 different crankshafts in their FZR250s. The rotor that Husaberg sent has a taper that is 20mm across the large diameter. The one off the crankshaft in the engine is 21.5mm and the good rotor I have off the other engine's crankshaft is even bigger. Still I can get going with wiring and checking the timing of the trigger teeth on the rotor. Both rotors have the same tooth layout so at least something looks consistent.

So, still looking for a rotor.

Oh well bet the removing the remains of the crank end was fun. did you press it out?
If someone knows what the Puller for the FZR250 also fits let me know and i will check the other one i have.

[speedpro]

Oh well bet the removing the remains of the crank end was fun. did you press it out?

Gave it a squirt of CRC, got it hot with the hot air gun, sat it flat on the vice with the broken stub between the jaws and gave it couple of whacks with an old axle and hammer. The puller thread bit has seen better days.