Godzone falling in the international education ratings

[avgas]

Heh, the University of Otago started a research project in 2011 to find out what happened to 14,000 graduates.
The first of 3 results will be out next year iirc.

I very much doubt they would tell you that their "Honors" students went on to get useless jobs that didn't require degrees, while the run of the mill students are now at senior level in the work force.
But that is pretty much what I am seeing (worldwide).

[avgas]

Why not just dump the exams entirely. What do they prove to anyone?

Because kids need some form of pressure.
They need to be taught that life is not all roses and kittens, and sometimes shit just jumps out in front of you and if you didn't plan for it - you're fucked.

Another lovely life lesson.

[mashman]

Wrong. The answers to a set of questions isn't a formula. The marking of those answers doesn't require a formula. The only people requiring a formula are those wanting to alter the results to something other than an accurate assessment of a students knowledge.

Why not drive your car with your eyes closed?

And they prove how much of the syllabus a student has learned. At least well constructed exams do. Pretty obvious really.

You said

95% isn't the expected result. It's the measure of how reliable the exam results are.

If you want a measure within a set of data. You must come up with a formula to quantify and qualify that measure innit. That takes questions and analysis and black magic.

Eyes closed? coz I wasn't saying that cars should be crashed, but perhaps exams as a measure have had their day. Perhaps we should just ask the teacher if the student is ready.

We all learn at different times. You can quite easily dumbify a population should you choose using the education system. That's a fact. You can learn nothing and still pass exams ya know. Teacher should know the student best after all.

[mashman]

Because kids need some form of pressure.
They need to be taught that life is not all roses and kittens, and sometimes shit just jumps out in front of you and if you didn't plan for it - you're fucked.

Another lovely life lesson.

That's what stressed parents are for. There's no place for that shit in the education system. No sirree baaarb.

[Ocean1]

If you want a measure within a set of data. You must come up with a formula to quantify and qualify that measure innit. That takes questions and analysis and black magic.

Yeah, the formula is adding up the correct answers. That's it. "Johnny got 80 of 100 answers correct" is all the analysis that's required

Eyes closed? coz I wasn't saying that cars should be crashed, but perhaps exams as a measure have had their day. Perhaps we should just ask the teacher if the student is ready.

Nonetheless if you don't know where you're steering then you won't get where you want to go. Just as if you don't know how well your student is learning you won't get them educated. And people have tried making exams redundant for quite q while now, the result being one of those negative achievements that you like to consider a success. Fact: you can't control what you don't measure. Any teacher that has a problem with that by definition doesn't know if his student is ready or not, so why would you bother asking him?

We all learn at different times.

Is that why you behave like a 12 year old?

You can quite easily dumbify a population should you choose using the education system.

Yes. That's been nicely demonstrated over the last generation or so by puissance politically correct education policy that insists that all pigs equal and fucks with exam results in order to "prove" that. Time to do it right again.

You can learn nothing and still pass exams ya know.

Now you're just taking the piss aincha?

Although, on reflection I suppose that's quite possible given current exams.

Teacher should know the student best after all.

The rest of the world doesn't give a flying fuck how well your teacher knew you. They often want to know how much you learned at school, and the ones paying for that want it from a completely impartial and accurate source.

[mashman]

Yeah, the formula is adding up the correct answers. That's it. "Johnny got 80 of 100 answers correct" is all the analysis that's required

That's not a very good measure really is it. Is he ready being a better question imho.

Nonetheless if you don't know where you're steering then you won't get where you want to go. Just as if you don't know how well your student is learning you won't get them educated. And people have tried making exams redundant for quite q while now, the result being one of those negative achievements that you like to consider a success. Fact: you can't control what you don't measure. Any teacher that has a problem with that by definition doesn't know if his student is ready or not, so why would you bother asking him?

Fair enough. If you "abolish" exams and take down that entire revenue stream. You could then use that revenue, and workforce, stream to bolster the front-line. After all, a test is good enough to validate knowledge, why does it need to be proven and comparable on a national scale by sitting exams too? What are we controlling? Culling the educational heard on the basis of how hard you tried at school? We need a new measure don't we?

Is that why you behave like a 12 year old?

In some ways that makes me mature for my age.

Yes. That's been nicely demonstrated over the last generation or so by puissance politically correct education policy that insists that all pigs equal and fucks with exam results in order to "prove" that. Time to do it right again.

Right again being?

Now you're just taking the piss aincha?

Although, on reflection I suppose that's quite possible given current exams.

You only learn what you allow yourself to be taught. That's an eons old approach to learning.

The rest of the world doesn't give a flying fuck how well your teacher knew you. They often want to know how much you learned at school, and the ones paying for that want it from a completely impartial and accurate source.

Fuck the rest of the world. What happens at school isn't their business, the relationship between teacher and student is all that really matters. Innit?

[Ocean1]

That's not a very good measure really is it. Is he ready being a better question imho.

Your opinion isn’t worth a pair of fetid dingo’s kidneys. The objective is to measure how much of the syllabus the kid’s learned. The correct way to do that is to set exams asking questions relating to the syllabus content.

“Is he ready” is neither quantifiable or of any qualitative value whatsoever.

Fair enough. If you "abolish" exams and take down that entire revenue stream. You could then use that revenue, and workforce, stream to bolster the front-line.

So you concede that exams are necessary but we orta arsehole ‘em anyway and use the twopence ha’penny saved to try harder to achieve an objective you now can’t see.

You ripper.

After all, a test is good enough to validate knowledge, why does it need to be proven and comparable on a national scale by sitting exams too?

An exam is a test. And it doesn’t have to be comparable on a national scale. But if the syllabus is used nationally and you’re using the same test procedure then the results are going to be comparable. So, yes if you scored fuck all there’s nowhere to hide and everyone is going to laugh at you. Life’s tough.

We need a new measure don't we?

Yes. We’ve already established that. We need a measure of how much of the syllabus the student has learned. Anything else is bullshit.

In some ways that makes me mature for my age.

So you’re 9 but bright for your weight?

Right again being?

A measure of how much of the syllabus the student has learned. Anything else is bullshit.

You only learn what you allow yourself to be taught. That's an eons old approach to learning.

So that’s how you got where you are today, you restrained your natural ability to learn shit.

Again: you ripper.

Fuck the rest of the world. What happens at school isn't their business, the relationship between teacher and student is all that really matters. Innit?

Well yeah, of course, if you want nothing at all from the rest of the world then you can fuck around at school all you want. And you’ll have the exam results to prove the rest of the world can get fucked.

And the relationship between a teacher and his student isn’t an objective. It’s a factor in his ability to teach his student to the syllabus, which IS the objective.

Now fuck off and do your homework, it was due 25 years ago.

[Bean]

They need to be taught that life is not all roses and kittens.

Bullshit - they already know that!

[avgas]

That's what stressed parents are for. There's no place for that shit in the education system. No sirree baaarb.

Why not? You can't mold metal without heat - same thing is about learning. 90% of the things we have to learn have not interest to us......because we a too stoopid to know better. Therefore pressure is required to force us to learn it so we understand after the fact.

I would have ditched english and all those fancy courses.......and for the rest of my life had thought that wine only comes in casks..........or that Plato was a breakfast cereal.
Thankfully some moron thought it good for me to learn these things - and forced me to be tested on them.....otherwise I could have ended up some slack-jaw-yokel+mathematician hybrid.

Do you want those kind of consequences on the world?
Hillbilly scientists?
Accountant Horticulturists?

Imagine the horrible consequences if we could learn whatever we wanted. I mean if art students are good indication of a subject that lets people learn whatever they want.......look at those fuckers - keep getting my coffee wrong. They should have study a little math so they understood "proportions".

[Zedder]

I very much doubt they would tell you that their "Honors" students went on to get useless jobs that didn't require degrees, while the run of the mill students are now at senior level in the work force.
But that is pretty much what I am seeing (worldwide).

Hell no, that would be like getting the cops to do research into whether speeding is safe.

It's more along the lines of what influence university has had on graduates lives. To my knowledge, it's never been done before.

[avgas]

Bullshit - they already know that!

Many don't. Many have loving caring parents who tell them bullshit that they can be anything they want, study anything they want - and its ok mummy and daddy will fix their lives later.

Exams are a universal "Fuck you" to that whole idea. A wake up call if you will.

There are other ways to do this - but most of them hurt more.

I had lots of these life exams as well as the academic one. Always remember to discharge a transformer was a good one. I failed that one the first time - should have studied more, fucking hurt.

A test telling me I got 46 percent in electromagnetism would have been less painful and driven the same message home.

[Zedder]

Many don't. Many have loving caring parents who tell them bullshit that they can be anything they want, study anything they want - and its ok mummy and daddy will fix their lives later.

Exams are a universal "Fuck you" to that whole idea. A wake up call if you will.

There are other ways to do this - but most of them hurt more.

I had lots of these life exams as well as the academic one. Always remember to discharge a transformer was a good one. I failed that one the first time - should have studied more, fucking hurt.

A test telling me I got 46 percent in electromagnetism would have been less painful and driven the same message home.

There's quite a bit of unsupported info in your posts. How do you know about all the graduates worldwide and others who don't know life's not all roses?

[mashman]

Your opinion isn’t worth a pair of fetid dingo’s kidneys. The objective is to measure how much of the syllabus the kid’s learned. The correct way to do that is to set exams asking questions relating to the syllabus content.

“Is he ready” is neither quantifiable or of any qualitative value whatsoever.

Nor yours. The objective should be student development... which should be age independent.

Nor are exams. They test memory and highlight what? That some students are better than others. WOW.

So you concede that exams are necessary but we orta arsehole ‘em anyway and use the twopence ha’penny saved to try harder to achieve an objective you now can’t see.

You ripper.

No. The objective is right in front of the teacher.

An exam is a test. And it doesn’t have to be comparable on a national scale. But if the syllabus is used nationally and you’re using the same test procedure then the results are going to be comparable. So, yes if you scored fuck all there’s nowhere to hide and everyone is going to laugh at you. Life’s tough.

I know what an exam is tyvm and I see no reason to waste money finding out who's doing better than who when it serves no significant purpose. So students are judged on their marks eh. Hardly surprising your generation did fuck all.

Yes. We’ve already established that. We need a measure of how much of the syllabus the student has learned. Anything else is bullshit.

A measure of how much of the syllabus the student has learned. Anything else is bullshit.

Why do we need the measure?

So you’re 9 but bright for your weight?

Sure, why not.

So that’s how you got where you are today, you restrained your natural ability to learn shit.

Again: you ripper.

Well, I choose to learn that which I deem necessary.

Cheers bro.

Well yeah, of course, if you want nothing at all from the rest of the world then you can fuck around at school all you want. And you’ll have the exam results to prove the rest of the world can get fucked.

And the relationship between a teacher and his student isn’t an objective. It’s a factor in his ability to teach his student to the syllabus, which IS the objective.

Now fuck off and do your homework, it was due 25 years ago.

K?

You're right. The student should know that they're just a little robot.

You'll be waiting longer than that before you get my homework, sir.


ooooo, bacon.

[mashman]

Why not? You can't mold metal without heat - same thing is about learning. 90% of the things we have to learn have not interest to us......because we a too stoopid to know better. Therefore pressure is required to force us to learn it so we understand after the fact.

I would have ditched english and all those fancy courses.......and for the rest of my life had thought that wine only comes in casks..........or that Plato was a breakfast cereal.
Thankfully some moron thought it good for me to learn these things - and forced me to be tested on them.....otherwise I could have ended up some slack-jaw-yokel+mathematician hybrid.

Do you want those kind of consequences on the world?
Hillbilly scientists?
Accountant Horticulturists?

Imagine the horrible consequences if we could learn whatever we wanted. I mean if art students are good indication of a subject that lets people learn whatever they want.......look at those fuckers - keep getting my coffee wrong. They should have study a little math so they understood "proportions".

I don't see the ditching of exams as a sky is falling thing.

Perhaps, instead of whingin about your coffee, you should, now that you're in the land of the free, design a cup with lines around the inside that display how much of the ingredient is to be poured in. Even better, get in touch with the coffee seller of choice and sell them the idea: "Get your personal cup and get the perfect coffee everytime." Everytime sounds great with an american accent. Woman catches a little drip of foam with her tongue and licks her lips... fade to cleavage, I mean black.

Yeah, readin riting and rithmetic for all. Then a day of sport for boys and Home Ec for the girls.

[BoristheBiter]

Nor yours. The objective should be student development... which should be age independent.

Nor are exams. They test memory and highlight what? That some students are better than others. WOW.



ooooo, bacon.

You are wrong on so many levels.
An exam is used to see if you can a) move onto the next syllabus and b) if you are capable of preforming the job you have applied for.