NZSBK Round 2 - dispute

[MVnut]

...stop it you children...don't you realise the gravity of the situation...and shit...


'and shit' (TM)...thanks Akzle

................and shit

[ellipsis]

...and this my friends is why we are in the state we are in...and have been ...and will be...I spoke with fifteen random riders who I have in my phone list today...thats about a tenth of those whose number is on my list...twelve of them dont have time, inclination or interest or computer skills to come here, or even know about KB...and when appraised of the shit being talked here, have various reactions, from giggling to being mildly fucked off.

...85% of fee paying road racers just wanna go race their mate's or adversaries at club meetings, and don't give a fuck about who gets their money...doesn't mean they are going to take kindly to some other bods coming in and fucking their passions, for a thing that 15% of the proletariat want to pursue...where's your deal with them...a little bit of a crash gonna happen somewhere...and this is the ether don't forget...some swim in it, most pay hard cash...

[ellipsis]

...and shit...

[SS90]

my point is people are reading the rule and thinking oh it doesn't mean cameras, and running them and nouts being done about it. then they're reading another rule and.....
here we are today.

Yea totally. I agree. Personally, if I was running a bike in the class, I would not misconstrue the wording to say anything else. No recording equipment means just that.
Some people just struggle to accept not being competitive and need to feel they are winning in some other way.

"Bending of rules" is just one example.

Like many things that flout the rules, they more often than not offer no real advantage.
But this should exclude them from the points. Crack down on everything, and it's going to be less attractive to do things that have real benifits.
But like always, a cheaters going to cheat.

[Shaun Harris]

This is so self explanatory I think the problem may not be MNZ but people that cant fucking read.

hence the word CHEATING exists mate

[Shaun Harris]

If they played in my sandpit you would have been told to fuck off, you knew the rules before you arrived and then wanted them changed on the day


Get them to medicate him heavily

So with my grumpy attitude you refer to from 13 years ago ( Wow what a memory to drag back up just to be a key board hero) I achieved more tyre allocation for a whole class of 600 riders!!

Must re sharpen my grumpy skills and see if I can achieve any more possitives for the competitors

Thanks for the insults though, im really enjoying being the adult in this conversation you lovely person you, have a fantastic day

[Billy]

Yea totally. I agree. Personally, if I was running a bike in the class, I would not misconstrue the wording to say anything else. No recording equipment means just that.
Some people just struggle to accept not being competitive and need to feel they are winning in some other way.

"Bending of rules" is just one example.

Like many things that flout the rules, they more often than not offer no real advantage.
But this should exclude them from the points. Crack down on everything, and it's going to be less attractive to do things that have real benifits.
But like always, a cheaters going to cheat.

Problem being,

Its become abundantly clear MNZ do NOT have a fair and just system in place that supports the people at the coalface making the decisions on the spot,Its all about smoke and mirrors,On the face of it,Theres no point having tech checks at meetings or attempting to enforce any rules under the current system.

Having tried to change the NZSBK series into a more uniform model that is run as a proper series,Its become obvious that it was the wrong direction,In fact it appears the earlier model of classes limited by capacity and fuel only(F1/2/3/125gp/Sidecars) and 5 individually run events that the points from which go towards the overall championship.

If a club wants to run a race meeting whereby they don't want the dramas of the MNZ rulebook cause they just wanna have fun,Easy,Don't run under an MNZ permit,NZ Law does not prevent any organisation from running race meetings if they are not under MNZ and why would you have a whole bunch of rules that are not going to be adhered to????Jellywrestlers statement regarding cameras is typical of the mindset,While I don't disagree that the rule could be more stringently enforced,His argument that "nobody mentioned it before" is laughable,I mean imagine explaining to the nice officer that you shouldn't be issued with a speeding infringement because youve driven in a particular 50k zone at 100k for 10 years and nobody said anything before....Good luck with that.

The roadracing model is about to change dramatically I would suggest and for the better.

[Shaun Harris]

Problem being,

Its become abundantly clear MNZ do NOT have a fair and just system in place that supports the people at the coalface making the decisions on the spot,Its all about smoke and mirrors,On the face of it,Theres no point having tech checks at meetings or attempting to enforce any rules under the current system.

Having tried to change the NZSBK series into a more uniform model that is run as a proper series,Its become obvious that it was the wrong direction,In fact it appears the earlier model of classes limited by capacity and fuel only(F1/2/3/125gp/Sidecars) and 5 individually run events that the points from which go towards the overall championship.



The roadracing model is about to change dramatically I would suggest and for the better.

Bring it on big boy!

I dont care how ugly or badly dressed you are ( Speaking for Robert of course)

[jellywrestler]

Jellywrestlers statement regarding cameras is typical of the mindset,While I don't disagree that the rule could be more stringently enforced,His argument that "nobody mentioned it before" is laughable,I mean imagine explaining to the nice officer that you shouldn't be issued with a speeding infringement because youve driven in a particular 50k zone at 100k for 10 years and nobody said anything before....Good luck with that.

my argument 'nobody mentioned it before' was not an attempt to justify it being okay whatsoever, it was a clear breach of the rules for those who knew the rules and i'm interested that neither a fellow competitor, or an official pointed out the fact that it wasn't legal to run.
There's a set of rules and is it true that the only time they're looked at or enforced is when there's actually a protest?

[Shaun Harris]

There's a set of rules and is it true that the only time they're looked at or enforced is when there's actually a protest?

No one gets charged with assult until a punch is thrown man

[Kiwi Graham:Me]

No one gets charged with assult until a punch is thrown man

Yes you can mate, you just don't get convicted unless it's proven ;-)

[steveyb]

Having tried to change the NZSBK series into a more uniform model that is run as a proper series,Its become obvious that it was the wrong direction,In fact it appears the earlier model of classes limited by capacity and fuel only(F1/2/3/125gp/Sidecars) and 5 individually run events that the points from which go towards the overall championship.

No way mate, we simply cannot go back to where we were before this year, in terms of the format and organisation that is.
The organisation this season has been outstanding and I for one (as a former racer and now team owner/manager and coach) have been very grateful for it.
Having one single point of contact over the whole series (i.e. single riders rep, single CoC, single Steward), the same timetable, same entry forms, single website for entries, on-line entries etc etc has been spot on. Reminds me of, oh how about MotoGP! I know, I know, it's a stretch, but that is how they work. Isn't it neat knowing who is who and what is what for the whole series?
OK, so some of the systems behind the scenes have broken down (due it seems from reading between the lines to personalities outside of the series proper, not necessarily those at the coalface and of course someone pushing, bending or maybe breaking rules), but as Jellybelly points out, there is no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. If rules were broken by anyone (aside from any particular appeal or otherwise), let us censure them and move on. The management team have that right and responsibility.

My rider and team and I are hanging out to get to Taupo and Manfeild to carve up again (and not crash into anyone this time...) and I really hope the management team remains together and strong.
I know that one in particular is really struggling, I mean really struggling and needs our support. I feel that in the case that has opened this can of worms there is a case to be made for peer pressure to be bought upon the persons involved to come clean about what they believe they have not done and let their peers make a decision in locus parentas so to speak of MNZ. I feel strongly that there is an element of some people hiding behind the system that is now impacting on the health and wellbeing of very valuable volunteers who have taken their own precious lives, time, leave, money and health to be subjected to this.

It is not safe, fun nor fair!

I have been staying out of this debate because I have seen it all before, over and over (like many others). I started out in 250 Production racing in the 1990's (on real bikes mind you) and us newbies and not-so-fasties all said, 'till we were blue in the face, that the fast guys were cheating. Compression this, chambers that, suspension the other. But we only begrudgingly agreed that those blokes (and blokesses) were just faster riders and we had to push on to catch up. The same story can be told about Junior Production, Production Superbike, Streetstock 150, 600 Sport Production, Formula 1, Formula 2, Formula 3, Pro-Twin etc etc with people pushing, bending and breaking rules.

EDIT: PLEASE NOTE THAT THESE COMMENTS COUNT IF THERE HAS BEEN CHEATING. IT MAY WELL BE THAT THERE HAS BEEN NOTHING OF THE SORT. PLEASE BEAR THAT IN MIND. THERE IS NO NEED TO ACTIVATE THE LYNCH MOBS HERE. WE HAVE A PROCESS THAT IS QUITE ROBUST LET'S LET IT TAKE ITS COURSE.

My 10c worth.

Steve Bagshaw
Moto Academy NZ
Innovative Moto Developments

[Shaun Harris]

Yes you can mate, you just don't get convicted unless it's proven ;-)

Do not take every thing you read Literilly Graham, Im sure Jelli understood what I was meaning

[Billy]

No way mate, we simply cannot go back to where we were before this year, in terms of the format and organisation that is.
The organisation this season has been outstanding and I for one (as a former racer and now team owner/manager and coach) have been very grateful for it.
Having one single point of contact over the whole series (i.e. single riders rep, single CoC, single Steward), the same timetable, same entry forms, single website for entries, on-line entries etc etc has been spot on. Reminds me of, oh how about MotoGP! I know, I know, it's a stretch, but that is how they work. Isn't it neat knowing who is who and what is what for the whole series?
OK, so some of the systems behind the scenes have broken down (due it seems from reading between the lines to personalities outside of the series proper, not necessarily those at the coalface and of course someone pushing, bending or maybe breaking rules), but as Jellybelly points out, there is no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. If rules were broken by anyone (aside from any particular appeal or otherwise), let us censure them and move on. The management team have that right and responsibility.

My rider and team and I are hanging out to get to Taupo and Manfeild to carve up again (and not crash into anyone this time...) and I really hope the management team remains together and strong.
I know that one in particular is really struggling, I mean really struggling and needs our support. I feel that in the case that has opened this can of worms there is a case to be made for peer pressure to be bought upon the persons involved to come clean about what they believe they have not done and let their peers make a decision in locus parentas so to speak of MNZ. I feel strongly that there is an element of some people hiding behind the system that is now impacting on the health and wellbeing of very valuable volunteers who have taken their own precious lives, time, leave, money and health to be subjected to this.

It is not safe, fun nor fair!

I have been staying out of this debate because I have seen it all before, over and over (like many others). I started out in 250 Production racing in the 1990's (on real bikes mind you) and us newbies and not-so-fasties all said, 'till we were blue in the face, that the fast guys were cheating. Compression this, chambers that, suspension the other. But we only begrudgingly agreed that those blokes (and blokesses) were just faster riders and we had to push on to catch up. The same story can be told about Junior Production, Production Superbike, Streetstock 150, 600 Sport Production, Formula 1, Formula 2, Formula 3, Pro-Twin etc etc with people pushing, bending and breaking rules.

My 10c worth.

Steve Bagshaw
Moto Academy NZ
Innovative Moto Developments

Don't disagree that the model we introduced this year is definitely a step in the right direction re the officials being there for the whole series,But sadly they are not keen to stay on as they don't think ANY commonsense has been used by those further up the foodchain in respect to backing them up,Therefore,Theres no point for them to carry on,Quite frankly,I handpicked those people,Because theyre the ONLY ones I trust to do the job in a fair and reasonable manner,But I'm sure you know that,They,Like me see things in a very black and white manner and have no favourites that get away with rulebreaking that others do not.UNFORTUNATELY there are some among us,That "do not play well with others" so to speak.

The beauty with Formula classes is they are sooooo much easier to police AND impossible to bullshit your way out of,Simple really,Then we don't need to have outside influences that can destroy the confidence of those at the coalface.Its still possible to have a group of officials the same as this year with a splintered 5 round series and you can call the classes whatever is agreed open ie F1 could become Superbike ????

[The Chow]

No way mate, we simply cannot go back to where we were before this year, in terms of the format and organisation that is.
The organisation this season has been outstanding and I for one (as a former racer and now team owner/manager and coach) have been very grateful for it.
Having one single point of contact over the whole series (i.e. single riders rep, single CoC, single Steward), the same timetable, same entry forms, single website for entries, on-line entries etc etc has been spot on. Reminds me of, oh how about MotoGP! I know, I know, it's a stretch, but that is how they work. Isn't it neat knowing who is who and what is what for the whole series?
OK, so some of the systems behind the scenes have broken down (due it seems from reading between the lines to personalities outside of the series proper, not necessarily those at the coalface and of course someone pushing, bending or maybe breaking rules), but as Jellybelly points out, there is no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. If rules were broken by anyone (aside from any particular appeal or otherwise), let us censure them and move on. The management team have that right and responsibility.

My rider and team and I are hanging out to get to Taupo and Manfeild to carve up again (and not crash into anyone this time...) and I really hope the management team remains together and strong.
I know that one in particular is really struggling, I mean really struggling and needs our support. I feel that in the case that has opened this can of worms there is a case to be made for peer pressure to be bought upon the persons involved to come clean about what they believe they have not done and let their peers make a decision in locus parentas so to speak of MNZ. I feel strongly that there is an element of some people hiding behind the system that is now impacting on the health and wellbeing of very valuable volunteers who have taken their own precious lives, time, leave, money and health to be subjected to this.

It is not safe, fun nor fair!

I have been staying out of this debate because I have seen it all before, over and over (like many others). I started out in 250 Production racing in the 1990's (on real bikes mind you) and us newbies and not-so-fasties all said, 'till we were blue in the face, that the fast guys were cheating. Compression this, chambers that, suspension the other. But we only begrudgingly agreed that those blokes (and blokesses) were just faster riders and we had to push on to catch up. The same story can be told about Junior Production, Production Superbike, Streetstock 150, 600 Sport Production, Formula 1, Formula 2, Formula 3, Pro-Twin etc etc with people pushing, bending and breaking rules.

My 10c worth.

Steve Bagshaw
Moto Academy NZ
Innovative Moto Developments

Thanks Steve , for your writings , unfortunately their are many who have tried to keep the course , but have just had enough . The clubs that never really bought in to the "series" thing since I've been involved in the modern era 2007- . The years where I had to do the Sub regs and entry forms at the last minute (2011/2012) otherwise there wouldn't have been any and that was MNZ's responsibility! and I wasn't even an official as such. Then to get as much coverage for the sport online since 2008. It was me (Not CTAS) that got the Internet coverage going , I met Grant and he asked me was there anything he could do I said yes "Live Timing" I introduced him to Tim Gibbes who was a bit IFy as he had heard it all before. Within a week there was live timing , now Grant has taken to the level it is now (as my ability doesn't stretch that far) and I happerly work with him doing interviews etc. But guess what , even Grant has had his own issues with getting things done. Now why am I going on about that , to see the shit that went on over the past couple of seasons has worn me down. Then the atitude of some of the clubs "Officials" and riders just made me wonder why I even bothered doing what I did. The lack of balls that MNZ has shown not just in this case but stretching back to when officials being abused by riders and officials never backed by the board , it makes me sick. I don't like to bag anyone , but I just over the crap. I'm no key board warrior , want to know more ask me when you see me next at Taupo or Manfeild.