Govt 'covering up' school funding plan

[bogan]

Implementation of separating us from the financial system, yes. Where did I say we couldn't change infrastructure, as that is open ended and up to the people to decide. Oh dear lord you didn't think I meant that everything would be done and dusted in 3 years? Remember the bit where I said it would be a start. Have a facepalm .

Well that was the answer you gave to my question. You can't enhance what you think is shit... ya know, therefore making it less shit. You're not displaying, what I would call, the attitude that empires were built on... oh, hang on, forgot where I was and what time I am in.

Ok, so how long would it take until it is implemented and the money is gone? Once the money is gone it would have to be a viable RBE, and for that to be the case, we need advanced infrastructure as TVP point out.

Actually I am, as I promote a society that is sustainable, you promote one that is not, so no empire building will be possible.

[TheDemonLord]

Be hard to balance the threat vs the benefits of tribalism, if that extra work just goes into a war effort, yeh we're united, but we'd be worse off anyway.

Replicators would be sweet, long way off though, 3DP is still too energy intensive to be a good option even for single material products; let alone complicated materials and functional product.

I was more inferring that the Tribalism would happen anyway and would probably be the only way to get the entire world to unite in a common goal of the betterment of Humanity

and yes the Extra work would undoubtadley go into finding ways to kill them - yah know, for defence....

I hear that on the energy intensive side - Guess we need the Matter/Anti-Matter reactors of ST also

but then Almost all new inventions are horribly inefficient - just compare the first internal combustion engines to the Fire Breathing monsters we now have.

[bogan]

I was more inferring that the Tribalism would happen anyway and would probably be the only way to get the entire world to unite in a common goal of the betterment of Humanity

and yes the Extra work would undoubtadley go into finding ways to kill them - yah know, for defence....

I hear that on the energy intensive side - Guess we need the Matter/Anti-Matter reactors of ST also

but then Almost all new inventions are horribly inefficient - just compare the first internal combustion engines to the Fire Breathing monsters we now have.

Yeh, probably. Though I'd rather stick with money and an un-united world than get slaughtered by aliens if I'm honest; cos you can guarantee if a hostile spacefaring race turned up in force, our lack of railguns, plasma cannons, and pew-pew lazers would give us about as much chance as mashy's NOW has

Big solar farms are probably the way to go, anti-matter is pretty hard to find.

True, but that did take quite a while, and they are still horribly inefficient.

[TheDemonLord]

Yeh, probably. Though I'd rather stick with money and an un-united world than get slaughtered by aliens if I'm honest; cos you can guarantee if a hostile spacefaring race turned up in force, our lack of railguns, plasma cannons, and pew-pew lazers would give us about as much chance as mashy's NOW has

Big solar farms are probably the way to go, anti-matter is pretty hard to find.

True, but that did take quite a while, and they are still horribly inefficient.

Is it wrong that I want Railguns, Plasma Cannons and especially Pew-Pew Lazers?

Fusion Reactors are the way forward - just gotta figure a way to do it without melting everything, then when we have those down, we work on Matter/Anti-matter power generation

Stage 1 civilisation here we come.....

[mashman]

Ok, so how long would it take until it is implemented and the money is gone? Once the money is gone it would have to be a viable RBE, and for that to be the case, we need advanced infrastructure as TVP point out.

Actually I am, as I promote a society that is sustainable, you promote one that is not, so no empire building will be possible.

The money is to be gone within those 3 years. That may not eventuate as there will be alternatives offered. With any luck people will grasp NOW and will vote to divorce themselves from the financial system. Other that point in time I would say that we are an R.B.E. as during those 3 years plans will be drawn up for tech and infrastructure etc... The plans will draw heavily on TVP because as you say, they have done the research.

An R.B.E. does not require advanced infrastructure fore it to be classed as an R.B.E., but it allows for its development. An R.B.E. is about how things are done, one of the results of which will be advanced tech, infrastructure, healthcare, education etc... Would Mr Fresco agree with that description, yes, I believe he would.

Empire building?

[bogan]

Is it wrong that I want Railguns, Plasma Cannons and especially Pew-Pew Lazers?

Fusion Reactors are the way forward - just gotta figure a way to do it without melting everything, then when we have those down, we work on Matter/Anti-matter power generation

Stage 1 civilisation here we come.....

Of course not, but it is wrong to want targets for them before we have them We also exhibit a distinct lack of cylons to protect us...

Yeh, you're probably right there. Orbital solar really needs space elevators first.

[mashman]

Bogan. Why do you think TVP, after all of these years, has made such slow progress given the obvious benefits? Do you think people think it's shit?

Yeh, that's pretty much the common reaction to TVP. And then laughter as you realise that some blokes actually think it'll work

[bogan]

The money is to be gone within those 3 years. That may not eventuate as there will be alternatives offered. With any luck people will grasp NOW and will vote to divorce themselves from the financial system. Other that point in time I would say that we are an R.B.E. as during those 3 years plans will be drawn up for tech and infrastructure etc... The plans will draw heavily on TVP because as you say, they have done the research.

An R.B.E. does not require advanced infrastructure fore it to be classed as an R.B.E., but it allows for its development. An R.B.E. is about how things are done, one of the results of which will be advanced tech, infrastructure, healthcare, education etc... Would Mr Fresco agree with that description, yes, I believe he would.

Empire building?

So, to summarise the salient points covered so far...

How will NOW come about? we will educate the people until they vote us in with the majority.

What about those who do not vote it in? they can leave and we will give them million dollar hammers in compensation for their land/assets.

How will NOW deal with national debt and foreign interests? Sell them million dollar hammers to pay it off.

How will NOW upgrade the production infrastructure to ensure an RBE is viable? slowly, and after we move to an RBE.

But if an RBE requires advanced infrastructure, won't this be more likely to fail when it is set up without that? Well it doesn't, those guys doing all their research and spending so much time on this problem are wrong.

What makes you think they are wrong? Well, I want free stuff NOW!

[bogan]

Bogan. Why do you think TVP, after all of these years, has made such slow progress given the obvious benefits? Do you think people think it's shit?

Changing the quote like that is a bit of a dick move mashy. They have made slow progress cos they are doing it right, planning for success is the term I'd use. People do think it is shit, which is why they are planning for success, to show them it is not shit, to show them it is not only doable, but of great benefit; because actions speak louder than words.

[mashman]

So, to summarise the salient points covered so far...

How will NOW come about? we will educate the people until they vote us in with the majority.

What about those who do not vote it in? they can leave and we will give them million dollar hammers in compensation for their land/assets.

How will NOW deal with national debt and foreign interests? Sell them million dollar hammers to pay it off.

How will NOW upgrade the production infrastructure to ensure an RBE is viable? slowly, and after we move to an RBE.

But if an RBE requires advanced infrastructure, won't this be more likely to fail when it is set up without that? Well it doesn't, those guys doing all their research and spending so much time on this problem are wrong.

What makes you think they are wrong? Well, I want free stuff NOW!

Changing the quote like that is a bit of a dick move mashy. They have made slow progress cos they are doing it right, planning for success is the term I'd use. People do think it is shit, which is why they are planning for success, to show them it is not shit, to show them it is not only doable, but of great benefit; because actions speak louder than words.

Why? You don't think people think that?. That you attribute that to me believing that by changing the quote leave the crown entirely with you.

They have made slow progress because they have not had the support they deserved from those in a position to give it. I've seen many Fresco clips from the 70's onwards and in next to none of them he discusses the need for the tech and infrastructure to come first. I reckon he's changing tack from where he has been to do as you say, and prove it.

[bogan]

Why? You don't think people think that?. That you attribute that to me believing that by changing the quote leave the crown entirely with you.

They have made slow progress because they have not had the support they deserved from those in a position to give it. I've seen many Fresco clips from the 70's onwards and in next to none of them he discusses the need for the tech and infrastructure to come first. I reckon he's changing tack from where he has been to do as you say, and prove it.

Feel free tocorrect with succinct answers if you feel I've missed something

People think that, but I don't and it is not what I said, hence it being a dick move to change the quote.

Exactly, he is about 10-20 years further down the track from where your NOW is, and shit he has learned is probably best not ignored.

[mashman]

Feel free tocorrect with succinct answers if you feel I've missed something

People think that, but I don't and it is not what I said, hence it being a dick move to change the quote.

Exactly, he is about 10-20 years further down the track from where your NOW is, and shit he has learned is probably best not ignored.

I nearly did, but then thought, nah, don't have to.

I don't think that of TVP either, but you don't seem to accept the opposite as an answer for the pace of the progress given that it has been being pushed for a minimum of 40 years. I think the lack of funding/interest comes from those not giving a shit more than it does from the need for careful planning. Again, just to make this absolutely crystal clear to you, that is not saying that it hadn't been carefully planned 40 years ago. Mr Fresco had already produced these sorts of designs 40 years ago. A lot of the technology required for construction had been produced at that point in history. You don't have to accept that, but the buildings from the 70's bare testament to the fact that we could build all sorts of structures if we put our minds to it. The point being, even with his designs and the tech available, people thought the idea was shit and it had nothing to do with the tech.

He is 60 or 70 years further down the track than NOW. Sigh. Again, I am not ignoring TVP in the slightest. I merely disagree that throwing up a few buildings is going to suddenly make those who don't give a shit suddenly stand up and go WOW, buildings, we must change how we live. We will also have wasted a huge number of resources by that time. Just to make that absolutely clear, I'm talking about mankind, not TVP.

[bogan]

I nearly did, but then thought, nah, don't have to.

I don't think that of TVP either, but you don't seem to accept the opposite as an answer for the pace of the progress given that it has been being pushed for a minimum of 40 years. I think the lack of funding/interest comes from those not giving a shit more than it does from the need for careful planning. Again, just to make this absolutely crystal clear to you, that is not saying that it hadn't been carefully planned 40 years ago. Mr Fresco had already produced these sorts of designs 40 years ago. A lot of the technology required for construction had been produced at that point in history. You don't have to accept that, but the buildings from the 70's bare testament to the fact that we could build all sorts of structures if we put our minds to it. The point being, even with his designs and the tech available, people thought the idea was shit and it had nothing to do with the tech.

He is 60 or 70 years further down the track than NOW. Sigh. Again, I am not ignoring TVP in the slightest. I merely disagree that throwing up a few buildings is going to suddenly make those who don't give a shit suddenly stand up and go WOW, buildings, we must change how we live. We will also have wasted a huge number of resources by that time. Just to make that absolutely clear, I'm talking about mankind, not TVP.

Would have though it came under your education goal, but I guess if you don't have the answers, you can't answer the questions...

Well, if his education and buildings and examples don't, how is your lack of education supposed to work where his stuff doesn't?

[mashman]

Would have though it came under your education goal, but I guess if you don't have the answers, you can't answer the questions...

Well, if his education and buildings and examples don't, how is your lack of education supposed to work where his stuff doesn't?

I've covered the answers in other threads and don't need to go another round with you should I choose not to. One thing I will leave that with though is, (in response to: What about those who do not vote it in?) how many up and coming innovators around the world are stifled by the restrictions of budget? Could it be that as one person leaves NZ that another would "buy" their life and carry on their research here unhampered by budget constraint?

That is a very good question. However I will try in as many ways as I can think of....... once I've got enough money together to make a real start.

[bogan]

I've covered the answers in other threads and don't need to go another round with you should I choose not to. One thing I will leave that with though is, (in response to: What about those who do not vote it in?) how many up and coming innovators around the world are stifled by the restrictions of budget? Could it be that as one person leaves NZ that another would "buy" their life and carry on their research here unhampered by budget constraint?

That is a very good question. However I will try in as many ways as I can think of....... once I've got enough money together to make a real start.

Okay, updating the salient points covered so far...

How will NOW come about? we will educate the people until they vote us in with the majority.

What about those who do not vote it in? they can leave and their assets must be purchased by somebody from another country wishing to get in on the RBE.

How will NOW deal with national debt and foreign interests? Sell them million dollar hammers to pay it off.

How will NOW upgrade the production infrastructure to ensure an RBE is viable? slowly, and after we move to an RBE.

But if an RBE requires advanced infrastructure, won't this be more likely to fail when it is set up without that? Well it doesn't, those guys doing all their research and spending so much time on this problem are wrong.

What makes you think they are wrong? Well, I want free stuff NOW!