Nigel Latta's new series

[Voltaire]

It's not hard to find this information - I'm sure you can use Google.

no need, there are still a pile of late 70's newspapers to paraphrase stuff from

[ellipsis]

NZ becoming once again an isolated nation, kind of like I imagine it was in the 1800's, .

...the thought of all those poor little people that never thought about where the water comes from and where the shit flows away to and how to chop a bit of kindling or use a shovel or catch your tea...and....and...no fuel for riding willy nilly round the country...oh no!...

[oldrider]

Some of us who were there are still alive and (almost) kicking!

[swbarnett]

Yes I suppose 9 billion people and all the associated cows, coal fired power stations, deforestation and co2 spewing motor vehicles are just part of the natural

process.

Yes, we do emit a lot of "greenhouse" gases. However, one thing that most people are missing is that carbon based gases are only part of the equation. A large part of the green house affect is due to water vapour. I think the oceans have the monopoly on that one.

That 70's article was probably written by someone from the greatest consumers on the planet

It was more than just that. If I understood correctly it was the "accepted" theory at the time.

[swbarnett]

The two concepts are not mutually exclusive.

Yes, I know that. The Gulf stream is the only thing keeping Europe as warm as it is. Even without any temperature change if that failed Europe would freeze. What I'm talking about is a true ice age i.e. cooling over the entire planet.

[James Deuce]

Anthropogenic climate change is an accepted scientific fact.

CO2 is just one index among many, but the big problem we have is the reduction in albedo of the Earth resulting in more warmth being absorbed by the climate, increasing suspended water vapour which traps the heat absorbed by the sea. There's a lot of blather about the Arctic ice cap being quite big in the last couple of years compared to the previous decade. But it ain't any where near as thick as it should be and it disappeared earlier than ever before. It's all out there, in simple terms so simple folks can understand, but no one wants to use public transport, so we can all just die instead. Makes perfect sense.

Climate and weather are two very different things. Many don't want to know that so they'll point at an unseasonal snow storm and decry the fact that their own laissez faire attitude to burning stored sunlight for easy energy is causing long term problems.

The planet doesn't give a fuck about how warm it is. Our inability to change or adapt to change in a rational fashion will kill a lot of people, plants, and animals, not the planet. The biggest reduction in diversity since the Permian extinction should be a hint, but, no, we're all experts so we should argue with those who know. Btw the climate science community in at 99% accord that anthropogenic warming as a trend (2 degrees C in the last century) is a real thing. Not fantasy, not conspiracy. But we won't change our attitudes until the entire population of Bangladesh drowns. Just like the global tsunami warning system couldn't get any funding until lots of people were killed by one. Meh. I never liked any of you anyway.

[swbarnett]

Anthropogenic climate change is an accepted scientific fact.

Sorry, no such thing. The best we get is accepted theory.

Science is like that. Everything we know is just what seems to fit the observations at the time. We can never know what new observations will come to light in the future that will shed doubt on the theory (or support it).

The universe is far too complex for any scientist (or group of scientists) to rightly claim that they know exactly how it, or any part of it, works with complete certainty.

[Banditbandit]

Sorry, no such thing. The best we get is accepted theory.

Gravity is just a theory too - but I don't see you ignoring that ...

[MisterD]

Sorry, no such thing. The best we get is accepted theory.

Oh please, not the abuse of the word "theory" as applied to science, you may as well sit with Ed in the creationist corner if you're going to do that.

I will agree though that AGW isn't a "theory" yet either. No matter how many scientists Al Gore might like to say reckon it's a "fact", or how many think it's a pretty strong hypothesis. Until there's an actual equation that works and predicts future behaviour accurately, it's not a theory.

[swbarnett]

Gravity is just a theory too - but I don't see you ignoring that ...

I ignore it all the time. Actually I seldom think of it.

It's still only a theory. Have you seen The Matrix? For all we know nothing around us is real.

Oh please, not the abuse of the word "theory" as applied to science,

The word "fact" implies 100% certainty. Something that doesn't exist in science.

you may as well sit with Ed in the creationist corner if you're going to do that.

I don't see the connection. Besides, creation and evolution are not necessarily contradictory. Creation talks about what "god" supposedly did. Evolution (if you're religiously leaning) describes the method used.

I will agree though that AGW isn't a "theory" yet either. No matter how many scientists Al Gore might like to say reckon it's a "fact", or how many think it's a pretty strong hypothesis. Until there's an actual equation that works and predicts future behaviour accurately, it's not a theory.

Fat chance of that in a chaotic system.

[mashman]

Anthropogenic climate change is an accepted scientific fact.

CO2 is just one index among many, but the big problem we have is the reduction in albedo of the Earth resulting in more warmth being absorbed by the climate, increasing suspended water vapour which traps the heat absorbed by the sea. There's a lot of blather about the Arctic ice cap being quite big in the last couple of years compared to the previous decade. But it ain't any where near as thick as it should be and it disappeared earlier than ever before. It's all out there, in simple terms so simple folks can understand, but no one wants to use public transport, so we can all just die instead. Makes perfect sense.

Climate and weather are two very different things. Many don't want to know that so they'll point at an unseasonal snow storm and decry the fact that their own laissez faire attitude to burning stored sunlight for easy energy is causing long term problems.

The planet doesn't give a fuck about how warm it is. Our inability to change or adapt to change in a rational fashion will kill a lot of people, plants, and animals, not the planet. The biggest reduction in diversity since the Permian extinction should be a hint, but, no, we're all experts so we should argue with those who know. Btw the climate science community in at 99% accord that anthropogenic warming as a trend (2 degrees C in the last century) is a real thing. Not fantasy, not conspiracy. But we won't change our attitudes until the entire population of Bangladesh drowns. Just like the global tsunami warning system couldn't get any funding until lots of people were killed by one. Meh. I never liked any of you anyway.

We will react to every possibility when there is enough money available. There is no other reason. Everything else that is required for a proactive approach to many eventualities is available.

[R650R]

Anthropogenic climate change is an accepted scientific HYPOTHESIS.

CO2 is just one index among many, but the big problem we have is the reduction in albedo of the Earth resulting in more warmth being absorbed by the climate, increasing suspended water vapour which traps the heat absorbed by the sea. There's a lot of blather about the Arctic ice cap being quite big in the last couple of years compared to the previous decade. But it ain't any where near as thick as it should be and it disappeared earlier than ever before. It's all out there, in simple terms so simple folks can understand, but no one wants to use public transport, so we can all just die instead. Makes perfect sense.

Climate and weather are two very different things. Many don't want to know that so they'll point at an unseasonal snow storm and decry the fact that their own laissez faire attitude to burning stored sunlight for easy energy is causing long term problems.

The planet doesn't give a fuck about how warm it is. Our inability to change or adapt to change in a rational fashion will kill a lot of people, plants, and animals, not the planet. The biggest reduction in diversity since the Permian extinction should be a hint, but, no, we're all experts so we should argue with those who know. Btw the climate science community in at 99% accord that anthropogenic warming as a trend (2 degrees C in the last century) is a real thing. Not fantasy, not conspiracy. But we won't change our attitudes until the entire population of Bangladesh drowns. Just like the global tsunami warning system couldn't get any funding until lots of people were killed by one. Meh. I never liked any of you anyway.

There are no Climate Change FACTS and there never can be as there is no control experiment to measure against.
Everything about climate change is hypothesis, not to mention the oxymoronic term itself as climate by nature is never constant, its the reason why we have weather forecasters who cant even get tommorows weather right!!!!

Anyone ever notice that when all that seasonal artic ice shelf melts that theres no discenable rise in sea levels????
The predicted sea level rises are bullshit, as if the planet gets hot enough to melt that ice it will also heat the oceans enough to drive more water into atmosphere as water vapour.

The only thing we do know for certain is that money is involved, aka the carbon tax scam. You can still 'pollute' as long as you pay.

We will all die from a USA initiated nucluear war long before the ice ever melts...

[swbarnett]

The predicted sea level rises are bullshit,

The sea level does appear to be rising. Some of the pacific islands are already almost under water.

However, appearances can be deceiving. It's more likely that the tectonic plates are titling (after all, they are floating on magma). Measurements taken from either side of one plate have shown that one side is sinking (hence the apparent sea level "rise") and the other is rising (producing an apparent sea level "drop").

[mashman]

There are no Climate Change FACTS and there never can be as there is no control experiment to measure against.
Everything about climate change is hypothesis, not to mention the oxymoronic term itself as climate by nature is never constant, its the reason why we have weather forecasters who cant even get tommorows weather right!!!!

Anyone ever notice that when all that seasonal artic ice shelf melts that theres no discenable rise in sea levels????
The predicted sea level rises are bullshit, as if the planet gets hot enough to melt that ice it will also heat the oceans enough to drive more water into atmosphere as water vapour.

The only thing we do know for certain is that money is involved, aka the carbon tax scam. You can still 'pollute' as long as you pay.

We will all die from a USA initiated nucluear war long before the ice ever melts...

So, given all of the evidence that has been put forwards so far in regards to climate change, would you say that knowing that the climate will change is not a fact? I care not whether it gets too hot or too cold or slightly hotter or slightly colder and I really don't give a shit if it gets hotter or colder than 0.000000000000000000000001 degrees of stuff, but we are technologically capable of dealing with that either eventuality.

I'd prefer comets falling from the sky, followed by meteor showers and tidal wave, followed by fault line that cannot sit still v's war. At least one of them can be prevented

[Voltaire]

So, given all of the evidence that has been put forwards so far in regards to climate change, would you say that knowing that the climate will change is not a fact? I care not whether it gets too hot or too cold or slightly hotter or slightly colder and I really don't give a shit if it gets hotter or colder than 0.000000000000000000000001 degrees of stuff, but we are technologically capable of dealing with that either eventuality.

I'd prefer comets falling from the sky, followed by meteor showers and tidal wave, followed by fault line that cannot sit still v's war. At least one of them can be prevented

We/they might be technically capable of slowing/stopping Global Warming but there is hardly much of a will to do it. India and China ( Google) say they are building 4 coal fired power stations a week. That and all the on going wars around the place.