Your sovereign rights being flushed down the toilet by our politicians

[flyingcrocodile46]

It seems we are all missing the point here.

It isn't countries who are/have written the bulk of the agreement provisions and it ain't one country over another that will profit from it.

It's the corporations who have written most of it and they are the ones who stand to profit most from it. Particularly the law suits (damages claims against sovereign laws that prejudice the corporate ability to extract profits, and who we the tax payers will pay the price for) that will come by the hundreds once everyone is locked in.

You have to stop thinking in terms of national benefits, that ain't what it's about. The touted benefits are the glitter that covers the turd that is the TPPA. You are idiots if you think any of us tax slaves will benefit from this for more than the settling period. This is about trade and those who profit most directly from it. At best we will get the scraps needed to keep us living the illusion of parity.

Trade agreements like this are what has stripped the US of 90% of it's manufacturing industries in the last 20 or so years. Most big corporations have relocated the manufacturing to other countries, while retaining full access to the US market. The smaller manufacturers who remained loyal to their employees and the US economy have subsequently become non competitive and driven out of business. Millions of jobs lost for what? Corporate profits. Corporations care not for national boundaries or national pride. This is how corporations thrive.

[Scuba_Steve]

In which case they're hardly likely to publish anything else, are they?

And I don't expect it to help much, I just get sick and tired of all the wailing from the left about the evels of free trade. It sorta highlights the desperate need to legislate against anyone engaged in anything they don't have a finger in. Hypocrites.

If this was really about free trade it'd be very simple; All countries drop import duties & be done with it, it's that simple. This isn't about free trade, this is the loss of individual country rights.

[bogan]

It seems we are all missing the point here.

Only because that point has no basis in fact.

If this was really about free trade it'd be very simple; All countries drop import duties & be done with it, it's that simple. This isn't about free trade, this is the loss of individual country rights.

That sort of free trade could be damaging to local industry if the appropriate checks are not put in place; like patents, if you have a NZ patent that doesn't cover you in US, NZ'rs could just freely import copycat products from US, killing the market for the NZ'r innovation (who obviously has to charge more to recoup r&d costs).

[flyingcrocodile46]

Only because that point has no basis in fact.

If you squeeze your eyes shut real tight that might be a true statement. To those with eyes that see, it is simply blind ignorance of an overwhelmingly obvious truth. It is verifiable in black and white through your own research. Which is the point of the thread that you don't get.

Seek the answers for yourselves rather than accepting what may only be miss understood half truths from someone such as I.


[/QUOTE]
That sort of free trade could be damaging to local industry if the appropriate checks are not put in place; like patents, if you have a NZ patent that doesn't cover you in US, NZ'rs could just freely import copycat products from US, killing the market for the NZ'r innovation (who obviously has to charge more to recoup r&d costs).[/QUOTE]

FFS That is the world we are already living in. You are so full of shit that it overflows everywhere you post. Patents and copy right are an entirely different issue to free trade. Stop muddying simple issues with your fucked up straw man logic.

Please note that this reply post is only for the benefit of those with functional brains, so they may see your fucktardary for what it is..

[bogan]

If you squeeze your eyes shut real tight that might be a true statement. To those with eyes that see, it is simply blind ignorance of an overwhelmingly obvious truth. It is verifiable in black and white through your own research. Which is the point of the thread that you don't get.

Seek the answers for yourselves rather than accepting what may only be miss understood half truths from someone such as I.

FFS you are so full of shit that it overflows everywhere you post. Patents and copy right are an entirely different issue to free trade. Stop muddying simple issues with your fucked up straw man logic.

Please note that this reply post is only for the benefit of those with functional brains, so they may see your fucktardary for what it is..

Govts are negotiating it, govts take input from all people, even those in corporations (which often make up a fair amount of the export economy); just because you don't like how they have weighed those inputs doesn't mean it is some puppet system.

I explained how they were related quite clearly, perhaps for the benefit of those with functional brains you could address that part, or were your eyes too shut to read it properly?

Also, learn to quote properly you shitter.

[Scuba_Steve]

That sort of free trade could be damaging to local industry if the appropriate checks are not put in place; like patents, if you have a NZ patent that doesn't cover you in US, NZ'rs could just freely import copycat products from US, killing the market for the NZ'r innovation (who obviously has to charge more to recoup r&d costs).

By all means maybee you could name an example of this?

[flyingcrocodile46]

Govts are negotiating it, govts take input from all people, even those in corporations (which often make up a fair amount of the export economy); just because you don't like how they have weighed those inputs doesn't mean it is some puppet system.

I explained how they were related quite clearly, perhaps for the benefit of those with functional brains you could address that part, or were your eyes too shut to read it properly?

Also, learn to quote properly you shitter.

BWUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA What a maroon I was. I guess I must have missed all those referendums........... along with the ACC levy referendum.

FFS do you not read anything before you spout your drivel. The meeting agenda is kept secret and the meetings are held in secret so that the citizens of the countries involved (who are doubtless smarter than their politicians) are kept uninformed so that they know not what to say and can't have a say before its's a done deal. Pull your head out of your arse.

Your explanation of the relationship is best likened to that of a clothes peg to a washing machine. Both used in the process of washing and drying clothes but they are not related at all, and will happily do their jobs independent of each other.

[Oscar]

BWUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA What a maroon I was. I guess I must have missed all those referendums........... along with the ACC levy referendum.

FFS do you not read anything before you spout your drivel. The meetings are held in secret so that the citizens of the countries involved (who are doubtless smarter than their politicians) can't have a say. Pull your head out of your arse.

Your explanation of the relationship is best likened to that of a clothes peg to a washing machine. Both used in the process of washing and drying clothes but they are not related at all.

Do you vote?

[bogan]

BWUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA What a maroon I was. I guess I must have missed all those referendums........... along with the ACC levy referendum.

FFS do you not read anything before you spout your drivel. The meeting agenda is kept secret and the meetings are held in secret so that the citizens of the countries involved (who are doubtless smarter than their politicians) are kept uninformed so that they know not what to say and can't have a say before its's a done deal. Pull your head out of your arse.

Your explanation of the relationship is best likened to that of a clothes peg to a washing machine. Both used in the process of washing and drying clothes but they are not related at all, and will happily do their jobs independent of each other.

It's a representative democracy, not having referendums doesn't equate to controlled by corporations.

But they are most effective when used together. Yes you could have a free trade agreement independent of bringing other things in line like patent laws, but it will not be the best decision for the economy. That is why the TPPA covers so many issues which are related when considering the economy.

[Ocean1]

It seems we are all missing the point here.

Well some of us are.

It's really pretty simple. Free trade = everyone NOT included in the sale/purchase activity gets to NOT punch the ticket on the way past. All manufacturers and all consumers of their product with half a brain see this as a fucking excellent idea.

This particular free trade agreement like every one of its predecessors likely contains individual provisions that favour one nation over another. And yes, the signatories are countries. Not corporations.

There may even be clauses in there that have fuck all to do with trade regulation, but in the end your government will sign it or not based on their assessment of its overall favourable terms to this nation.

Entities not in favour of free trade are invariably those that stand to lose their cut of the legal backhanders that are currently in place. That's unlikely to be the reason they publicly use, but stripped of the bullshit them's the facts. Fuckem.

[Ocean1]

If this was really about free trade it'd be very simple; All countries drop import duties & be done with it, it's that simple. This isn't about free trade, this is the loss of individual country rights.

Then why is it called a trade agreement?

And you're description of how really simple trade agreements are doesn't actually describe any historical trade agreements with any accuracy at all now, does it? In fact it's fair to say that in keeping with the massive number of interested parties involved they're probably the single most complicated negotiations ever undertaken, isn't it?

[Scuba_Steve]

Then why is it called a trade agreement?

And you're description of how really simple trade agreements are doesn't actually describe any historical trade agreements with any accuracy at all now, does it? In fact it's fair to say that in keeping with the massive number of interested parties involved they're probably the single most complicated negotiations ever undertaken, isn't it?

Cause than idiots think it is one, god that's like asking "if nazi prison camps weren't holiday camps then why did they call them that?" [Goodwin's law invoked!]
But also it's called the 'TransPacific Partnership Agreement' TPPA, it covers more than just trade, but apparently you only listen to what Key has to say in complete disregard for facts & truth

[blue rider]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle23603613/

A NAFTA arbitration panel has ruled against Canada in a claim by a U.S. company that wanted to develop a quarry in Nova Scotia, although a dissenting member of the panel warned that the decision will be seen as a “remarkable step backwards” in environmental protection.

Bilcon proposed the expansion of a quarry near Digby on the shore of the Bay of Fundy in September, 2002, but the Nova Scotia and federal governments rejected it after a joint review panel recommended it not proceed. The family-owned company – which is registered in Delaware – will now seek $300-million in damages after the arbitration panel declared that it was denied a fair environmental hearing.

[Ocean1]

Cause than idiots think it is one, god that's like asking "if nazi prison camps weren't holiday camps then why did they call them that?" [Goodwin's law invoked!]
But also it's called the 'TransPacific Partnership Agreement' TPPA, it covers more than just trade, but apparently you only listen to what Key has to say in complete disregard for facts & truth

Ah, the hallmark of a true tinfoil addict: "It's not what they say it is, it's what I say it is".

And I think we already covered a hierarchy of authority didn't we? And decided that your word was well down the pecking order, no? And as I don't bother keeping up with what JK has to say I certainly don't have time for someone who uses spurious eponymous bullshit to cover their arse.

[puddytat]

Only because that point has no basis in fact.



That sort of free trade could be damaging to local industry if the appropriate checks are not put in place; like patents, if you have a NZ patent that doesn't cover you in US, NZ'rs could just freely import copycat products from US, killing the market for the NZ'r innovation (who obviously has to charge more to recoup r&d costs).

Well I 'spose in about 5 years time when the truth is revealed & fiction becomes fact, then it will probably be too late to do anything about it eh.