SCU on TV1 - bike vs car fatal

[FJRider]

Really?? Do you think a family of the deceased may want to know who was at fault? Of course they do, and like I said often regardless of whose fault it was, their loved one or someone else.

THEIR darling is ... and ALWAYS will be innocent. As is EVERY BIKER in an accident involving a motorcar.

Jeez ... spend more time on KB and learn the truth ...

[Erelyes]

If you look but don't see me (this happens all the time, never mind the distance argument) You! are still damned well in the wrong.

See we're gonna have to disagree on this one. I think in this instance the car driver looked and didn't see the rider cos he was still behind the crest in the road.

[marmel]

THEIR darling is ... and ALWAYS will be innocent. As is EVERY BIKER in an accident involving a motorcar.

Jeez ... spend more time on KB and learn the truth ...

I wonder how long I will have to hang around for you to come up with just one example of an accident caused by "bad timing"?

[marmel]

See we're gonna have to disagree on this one. I think in this instance the car driver looked and didn't see the rider cos he was still behind the crest in the road.

Right so in this case had the bike been travelling at the speed limit the car driver under normal circumstances would have had time to pull out and complete his turn before the bike arrived on the scene. Fault goes to the bike rider.

Had the bike been travelling at the speed limit and the car pulled out because they didn't see the rider, fault goes to the car driver.

Had the road been designed so poorly that visibility is so badly compormised that conducting a safe manouvre was very difficult, external influences, ie the enviroment would be at fault.

[FJRider]

You still fail to acknowledge that one of the parties HAS TO BE AT FAULT. I can't say it any simpler than that for you. Following the road rules is a gaurantee of avoiding an accident as long as both parties are following the rules. If one party is not and an accident occurs, guess what THEY ARE AT FAULT.

If both parties are within the law ... (by your rules) no one is at fault .. right .. ??

You can wrap it up any way you like but you haven't made one statement based on fact which shows accidents are caused by bad timing.

If an accident happened at 11:43 am. And you being cynic ... decided to arrive early ... would the accident still happen .. ??

[QUOTE=marmel;1130860653]Wrong place at the wrong time? Really? This is what you base your argument on.[/QUOTE}

YES ... The term accident ... is meaning ... not my fault.

Sorry your honor, I did pull out in front of that bike and yes he was killed but at the end of the day HE WAS IN THE WRONG PLACE AT THE WRONG TIME.

Oh well now you put it that way you are free to go, well argued sir.

ACTUALLY ... YOU were in the wrong place at the wrong time ... so it was YOUR fault.

[FJRider]

I wonder how long I will have to hang around for you to come up with just one example of an accident caused by "bad timing"?

If you are unlucky ... you will find an example without my help.


Just hope you are lucky ...

[marmel]

This is getting a bit silly. Perhaps we should all start taking random 30 second stops just in case we were going to have an accident at a certain time?? We would still need someone to DO SOMETHING WRONG AND BE AT FAULT to actually cause the accident wouldnt we?

I think you lost this argument about 5 posts ago, just give up.

[marmel]

If you are unlucky ... you will find an example without my help.


Just hope you are lucky ...

You see this is the type of rubbish statement based on bullshit. If I have an accident one of three things are going to have happened.

1. I fucked up

2. Someone else fucked up

3. The road or a part on my bike fucked up or I got struck by lightning or a flash flood or a rabbit.

Something has to happen though eh?

The only thing good to come out of this thread is that I have wasted so many posts trying to explain the same basic concept that I am just about off my L-Plate.

[FJRider]

Right so in this case had the bike been travelling at the speed limit the car driver under normal circumstances would have had time to pull out and complete his turn before the bike arrived on the scene. Fault goes to the bike rider.

The speed of the motorcycle was not accurately confirmed. Therefore blame can not be placed ON the motorcyclist.

Had the bike been travelling at the speed limit and the car pulled out because they didn't see the rider, fault goes to the car driver.

The speed of the motorcycle was not accurately confirmed. Therefore blame can not be placed ON the car driver.

Being within speed limits cannot always be confermation of innocence. Stupid decisions can STILL be made UNDER set speed limits.

Had the road been designed so poorly that visibility is so badly compormised that conducting a safe manouvre was very difficult, external influences, ie the enviroment would be at fault.

So .. maybe road design was (could be) at fault ... not rider/driver input/actions .. ??

[marmel]

I think the speed of the bike was established to be not less than 70km? There are various ways of calculating speeds including how far one vehicle has encroached into another at impact, how far someone has been thrown etc etc and quite often speeds are calculated to within a very narrow range, ie 1-2km. I sat in on an
coroners inquest involving a 9 ton tractor which lost control and vaulted off of a hill, flew threw the air and ended up in a gulley killing thr driver. Speed was calculated to within 2km from memory, amazing what can be done with physics and a few forumlas.

So in this case with speed being established to be at least what it was then it wasn't hard to find fault with the young fella that died. Shame for the family but they appeared to accept it for what it was.

[FJRider]

3. The road or a part on my bike fucked up or I got struck by lightning or a flash flood or a rabbit.

The road ... ride to the conditions ...

Your bike ... your problem for not riding a roadworthy bike.

Lightning ... DEFINITELY YOUR FAULT ...

Flash flood .. Did you not expect or see it coming .. ?? flash floods often during heavy rain. (was it raining .. ???)

The only thing good to come out of this thread is that I have wasted so many posts trying to explain the same basic concept that I am just about off my L-Plate.

Lets hope you live long enough to achieve that status.

[marmel]

Yeah hopefully. Given that my bike is up on stands waiting for a new choke cable to come from the US I think I might just make 30 posts. Too much ice and grit around soon anyway which of course could be an enviromental influence or I could be at fault for not riding to the conditions, The answer will probably come to me as I am sliding down the road.

[FJRider]

Right so in this case had the bike been travelling at the speed limit the car driver under normal circumstances would have had time to pull out and complete his turn before the bike arrived on the scene. Fault goes to the bike rider.

Why the infactuation that if you travel at the speed limit ... you will be SAFE .. ?????????????????

Had the bike been travelling at the speed limit and the car pulled out because they didn't see the rider, fault goes to the car driver.

NO accurate speed of the motorcyclict was determined .. remember .. ??

Had the road been designed so poorly that visibility is so badly compormised that conducting a safe manouvre was very difficult, external influences, ie the enviroment would be at fault.

The scene was NOT a high accident zone yet they crashed. Enviroment was at fault ... you want to blame a tree for growing .. ??

[marmel]

I never said travelling at the speed limit is a guarantee you will be safe. What I did say is that if the bike rider HAD been travelling at the speed limit the driver of the car would have most likely been able to complete his turn without coming into contact with the bike.

In fact it is probably almost as likely to have an accident travelling at the speed limit on a bike but in those cases you would not be at fault assuming you havent crossed the centre line or done something else as stupid.

[FJRider]

I fucked up

YOU WILL ... it's just a matter of time.