MotoGP 2015

[pritch]

Dorna and the FIM are to.invite tenders for the supply of engines for Moto2 from 2019. This has prompted discussion as to what the fans would like to see: Triumph or MV triples, KTM 750
twins, Suzuki 650 turbos etc. Most likely though we'll get more of the same, or something very similar.

I think it was Emmett made the comment that it is a lot cheaper to run a team in Moto2 than Moto3 which was interesting.

[McWild]

Dorna and the FIM are to.invite tenders for the supply of engines for Moto2 from 2019. This has prompted discussion as to what the fans would like to see: Triumph or MV triples, KTM 750
twins, Suzuki 650 turbos etc. Most likely though we'll get more of the same, or something very similar.

I think it was Emmett made the comment that it is a lot cheaper to run a team in Moto2 than Moto3 which was interesting.

Likely they'll just find another 600cc 4 to switch over to and keep the teams happy.

Like many have suggested, the logical step would surely by a 500 twin/open manufacturer class. Would mirror the old 2T days of 125/250/500 2Ts with 25/500/1000 4Ts. Introduce heavier cost caps on the Moto3 class, give a cost cap on Moto 2 of roughly what Moto3 has now.

Moto2 just feels like the doldrums between Moto3 and MotoGP these days and it won't surprise me a bit if we see more riders make the Jack Miller move in the coming seasons. Moto3 has the manufacturers and the big sponsors, what self-proposed future champion would want to take a step back for a season or 2 in Moto2 right now? I think a lot just do it because they more or less have to. Look at Vinales, he was in and out and if Rins gets a shot in GP next season I bet he'll do the same thing.

[Erelyes]

I recall the commentators (BTSport) saying something about the Moto3 bikes being quite technical, and the MotoGP bikes, yet Moto2 not so much.

It does seem a bit weird that Moto2 is closer to the European Junior Cup, and that Moto3 is closer to MotoGP.

*shrug*

[pritch]

Moto2 would seem in most respects to be a failed experiment. The idea was a standardised engine with frame design unrestricted. There were hopes for hub steering and all sorts of wondrous design solutions. Turns out that the teams are exceedingly risk averse and choose frame designs very conservatively. This to the extent that the vast majority of the current field are all using same frame. Seems everybody wants what last year's champion rode.

Dorna wanted more power from the 600 engines but it turns out Honda can be risk averse too. Understandably they didn't want the engines blowing up, that would be a bad look. So the Moto2 engines are not *that* much different to a standard CBR600RR as I understand it.

Instead of an interesting variety we now have a field of bikes with identical engines and almost all with identical frames. A long way from what was envisioned. The main failure of the Moto2 formula though, is that the step up from the Moto2 bikes to MotoGP is too big.

The only consolation is that there should be nothing to prevent close racing.

[GD66]

At the time it appeared that Moto2 was hurriedly introduced by Dorna as a knee-jerk reaction to the popularity of the closely-fought and spectacular 600 Supersport class in the WSBK series.
Always dickin' round with the rules...

[Autech]

Dorna and the FIM are to.invite tenders for the supply of engines for Moto2 from 2019. This has prompted discussion as to what the fans would like to see: Triumph or MV triples, KTM 750
twins, Suzuki 650 turbos etc. Most likely though we'll get more of the same, or something very similar.

I think it was Emmett made the comment that it is a lot cheaper to run a team in Moto2 than Moto3 which was interesting.

I was thinking the other day that the engines must be up for review. The Honda 4banger has done em well so I would be surprised to see a change in that. They seems to be reliable and put out a fair amount of grunt with that power.

Moto2 would seem in most respects to be a failed experiment. The idea was a standardised engine with frame design unrestricted. There were hopes for hub steering and all sorts of wondrous design solutions. Turns out that the teams are exceedingly risk averse and choose frame designs very conservatively. This to the extent that the vast majority of the current field are all using same frame. Seems everybody wants what last year's champion rode.

Dorna wanted more power from the 600 engines but it turns out Honda can be risk averse too. Understandably they didn't want the engines blowing up, that would be a bad look. So the Moto2 engines are not *that* much different to a standard CBR600RR as I understand it.

Instead of an interesting variety we now have a field of bikes with identical engines and almost all with identical frames. A long way from what was envisioned. The main failure of the Moto2 formula though, is that the step up from the Moto2 bikes to MotoGP is too big.

The only consolation is that there should be nothing to prevent close racing.

It certainly sounded exciting to begin with, no John Brittens out there dicing it though unfortunately.

I really really enjoyed Moto2 when it was first introduced, ended up with closer racing that the 125s at the time as the $$$ gap between manufacturers/teams made for some really fast bikes and some fucking slow bikes.

There is still some close racing, I think this year is kinda wamp waaamp as the talked about names from the Moto3 step up (Marquez was the big hope) aren't doing too well. Rins is doing faaantastic though which is great to watch.

I watch the races in this order these days Motogp (a bit of action but largely a game of chess) Moto3 (in case the Motogp race was boring the Moto3 always brings about some awesome racing) then Moto2. Will be interesting what Dorna does to up the Moto2 game in years to come.

[Oscar]

Moto2 would seem in most respects to be a failed experiment. The idea was a standardised engine with frame design unrestricted. There were hopes for hub steering and all sorts of wondrous design solutions. Turns out that the teams are exceedingly risk averse and choose frame designs very conservatively. This to the extent that the vast majority of the current field are all using same frame. Seems everybody wants what last year's champion rode.

Dorna wanted more power from the 600 engines but it turns out Honda can be risk averse too. Understandably they didn't want the engines blowing up, that would be a bad look. So the Moto2 engines are not *that* much different to a standard CBR600RR as I understand it.

Instead of an interesting variety we now have a field of bikes with identical engines and almost all with identical frames. A long way from what was envisioned. The main failure of the Moto2 formula though, is that the step up from the Moto2 bikes to MotoGP is too big.

The only consolation is that there should be nothing to prevent close racing.

I recall talking to Mike Web when Moto2 was being designed - as I recall allsorts of things were being mooted - injected two strokes, orbital valve technology and those Aprilia 550 twins. As you say the Honda experiment was let down by a lack of power (apparently the output is nowhere near what Dorna claims).

[denill]

I recall talking to Mike Web when Moto2 was being designed - as I recall allsorts of things were being mooted - injected two strokes, orbital valve technology and those Aprilia 550 twins. As you say the Honda experiment was let down by a lack of power (apparently the output is nowhere near what Dorna claims).

Have read that the Moto2 Honda is soooo underpowered they are shit to ride. (And the WSS motors are much more powerful.) Riding is all about keeping the corner speed up to make decent speed on the next straight. If that is so, could be a reason why this years Moto2 champ may not make the step up to MotoGP next year.

[Autech]

Have read that the Moto2 Honda is soooo underpowered they are shit to ride. (And the WSS motors are much more powerful.) Riding is all about keeping the corner speed up to make decent speed on the next straight. If that is so, could be a reason why this years Moto2 champ may not make the step up to MotoGP next year.

Googled and found a Moto2 vs WSS vs 250cc lap time comparison. Unfortunately it was from 2011 so not up to date, would be interesting if someone on here wants to do the work/googling

The stock CBR600 is rather slow compared to other 600s so if it isn't tickled much it may be a bit shite to ride.

[samgab]

Dorna and the FIM are to.invite tenders for the supply of engines for Moto2 from 2019. This has prompted discussion as to what the fans would like to see: Triumph or MV triples, KTM 750
twins, Suzuki 650 turbos etc. Most likely though we'll get more of the same, or something very similar.

I think it was Emmett made the comment that it is a lot cheaper to run a team in Moto2 than Moto3 which was interesting.

Hmm, interesting. I reckon 675 Triumph Triple engines would be an interesting platform for Moto2.

Also, I wonder if MV factory will ever return to MotoGP. For many years they dominated...

[Crasherfromwayback]

I wonder if MV factory will ever return to MotoGP. For many years they dominated...

Yep. Pretty easy to dominate a dominator.

[Erelyes]

I think this year is kinda wamp waaamp as the talked about names from the Moto3 step up (Marquez was the big hope) aren't doing too well.

'kin A. I actually believed Marquee Mark when he said his brother was better than him. Now that looks like a load of codswallop.

[george formby]

Hmm, interesting. I reckon 675 Triumph Triple engines would be an interesting platform for Moto2.
.

You watched any of the 675 racing from the UK? Exceedingly entertaining.

I'm as underwhelmed as anyone with moto2 this season but as somebody has already mentioned it's in spectacular company. I've managed to get both fists into my mouth at least 3 times so far just watching motogp. Moto3 has had me putting damp flannels & boxer shorts in the fridge to avoid spontaneous combustion. Go DK!

[eelracing]

We (by that I mean the whiners and whingers on here) debated this last season I think.
At the end of the day, the fact that Moto2 has a single engine supplier and the engines are sealed is part of the problem. Fundamentally it is not GP racing any longer, it is simply low-volume higher spec production racing.
This means, as Toni Elias said, the bikes are not powerful enough and too even so that the good riders can be upset by not so good riders who go balls out at the start.
And it also means that the Moto2 teams have even less to do on the bikes to amake a difference. While this is also true now in MotoGP, at least the engines are different and the assigned engine technicians do their best for each team.
There is absolutely no doubt of the abilities of the top 10-15 Moto2 riders, but as mentioned in the thread last year, circumstances can make some of them look decidedly average.

Worth repeating steveyb's post re; this shite class.
Sums it up better than most only the moaners & whingers could see it coming 6 years ago.
It aint a GP class until open to all makes.

[carbonhed]

Fuck yeah!