Is it time to lock up the Greenpeace terrorists?

[TheDemonLord]

Yes - but what do YOU think the difference is?

Well for a start, Countries have Armies, that have uniforms. Countries can declare war, Countries are bound by things such as the Geneva convention (if they are a signatory of it).

Not for the dead women and children there isn't ..

Granted, I doubt the intent is of little comfort to them and their loved ones - but that is the wages of war.

That'as plainly stupid .. not your usual ...

Sarcasm and parody are perfectly acceptable - and serve to highlight the irrational position that some have taken with regards to one groups actions over another.

Do you seriously think that the US will ADMIT to deliberately targeting women and children ?? The moment they do they will face massive international condemnation ...

Are you seriously suggesting that the US would deliberately target them? Without talking Morals and other things that can be argued about - lets talk raw dollars and cents:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-114_Hellfire

The cost for the UCAV variant of the Hellfire is $65,000, lets assume for the sake of lazy maths that the Drone and the Hellfire teleported to the combat zone. Are you seriously suggesting that the US would waste that amount of money just to kill insignificant women and children?

There are other terrorists and terrorist groups - those two certainly target women and children ... but they don't do it to create terror in the citizenery and change Government's minds - they do it for their own ends - genocide, sexual gratification or recruitment ... that doesn't make it right either ...

But I thought we were talking about bigger players in th arena ..

I dunno, ISIS seem to be doing quite well at creating terror in their own citizenry....

[TheDemonLord]

As has already been said, if intelligence suggests that there are innocent civilians in the vicinity of the intended target and the attack is carried out regardless, then yes, they were targeted.

When the Police go on a high speed chase, that ends in a crash, that kills an innocent member of the public.

Was that Member targeted?

Afterall the Police decided to go on the chase knowing that there is other traffic on the road.

[Katman]

Are you seriously suggesting that the US would deliberately target them? Without talking Morals and other things that can be argued about - lets talk raw dollars and cents:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-114_Hellfire

The cost for the UCAV variant of the Hellfire is $65,000, lets assume for the sake of lazy maths that the Drone and the Hellfire teleported to the combat zone. Are you seriously suggesting that the US would waste that amount of money just to kill insignificant women and children?

What do the figures of 1147 for 41 indicate to you?

(And no, it's not a cricket score).

[husaberg]

What do the figures of 1147 for 41 indicate to you?

(And no, it's not a cricket score).

What do the figures of 1147 for 41 indicate to you?

(And no, it's not a cricket score).

Since Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip in 2005, terrorists have fired more than 11,000 rockets into Israel.
Has Israel fired that many rockets or missiles against civilians in the Gazza strip?

[TheDemonLord]

What do the figures of 1147 for 41 indicate to you?

(And no, it's not a cricket score).

I'm pretty sure I said:

If we are going to discuss America's use of Drones, I would tend to suggest that the failure is not with the accuracy of the technology, but with the accuracy of the intelligence - but given the numbers presented - it would be correct to condemn America's use of drones while such a high incidence of Collateral deaths is occuring.

but since you are attempting to rebut my comment about using Hellfires to kill kiddies making no sense - a Mk 84 2000 pound dumb would both do more damage (and kill more Women and Children) and all for the cost of $3100 per unit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_84_bomb

for the cost of a single hellfire - you could lay down 20 Mk84's - if your goal truly was to target the civilians, it would be a far more economical (and devastating) option.

[Katman]

but since you are attempting to rebut my comment about using Hellfires to kill kiddies making no sense - a Mk 84 2000 pound dumb would both do more damage (and kill more Women and Children) and all for the cost of $3100 per unit.

This must be what trying to teach a special needs class is like.

What I am saying is that clearly America doesn't give a fuck what waging war costs.

Plenty of Americans are making vast fortunes from it.

[TheDemonLord]

What I am saying is that clearly America doesn't give a fuck what waging war costs.

Plenty of Americans are making vast fortunes from it.

Suppose I were to agree with that notion - it still does not prove that America is Targeting women and children.

Does it prove that America doesn't care who lives and dies - yes
Does it prove that America's current choice of tactics result in a large amount of collateral deaths - yes

but it does not prove that they are targeting them.

If they were targeting them, then there are ways to do it more effectively and far cheaper than the current method.

[dinosaur]

what about the poor buggers sitting up on the Parliament building ...... did they target some innocent woman and children? Or were they the victims? or are they Americans? or ........ fucked if I know what you guys are arguing about


oh that's right ..... American drones in Gaza targeting greenpeace

or was it ISIL terrorists at Parliament killing Israeli woman and children?


equal land rights for gay whales, I say

[mashman]

Point of order - I said continue the mission

I suspect that if you were to ask any Commander - they would all say that they don't want innocents to die. Which would kinda prove my point.

Aha.

I'm sure they go to war with aspirations of 0 civilian casualties let alone anything else and I'm damned sure that they have some seriously fucked up tough decisions to make... although I would expect them to know the difference between collateral kills v's choosing to murder someone, so no, I don't believe that comes anywhere near to proving anything that you claim.

[TheDemonLord]

Aha.

I'm sure they go to war with aspirations of 0 civilian casualties let alone anything else and I'm damned sure that they have some seriously fucked up tough decisions to make... although I would expect them to know the difference between collateral kills v's choosing to murder someone, so no, I don't believe that comes anywhere near to proving anything that you claim.

I am going to now take a tip toe out of the area from which I can reasonably argue and suggest that the technicality of 'it will probably kill them' vs the saying 'it will definitely kill them' is both how they avoid intent and also sleep easy at night.

[mashman]

equal land rights for gay whales, I say

They already have them. Stop saying that they don't and your quest will be fulfilled

[husaberg]

They already have them. Stop saying that they don't and your quest will be fulfilled

But the ocean is now so full of hormones from birth control pills that all the sperm whales are now firing blanks.

[mashman]

I am going to now take a tip toe out of the area from which I can reasonably argue and suggest that the technicality of 'it will probably kill them' vs the saying 'it will definitely kill them' is both how they avoid intent and also sleep easy at night.

lol... it's all in the spin. What's the average explosive radius of ye olde blowing up drone bomb thing?

I guess they sleep well at night because they've seen war and already done stuff that'd have us heaving all over the place. Some will handle it, some won't. Wouldn't wanna do the job personally, and would rather they didn't have to either.

[Maha]

But the ocean is now so full of hormones from birth control pills that all the sperm whales are now firing blanks.

Reminds of a backpackers we saw down Dunners way few years ago

[mashman]

But the ocean is now so full of hormones from birth control pills that all the sperm whales are now firing blanks.

But female sperm whales don't shoot blanks. I now know the perfect man to perform any insemination protocols that are employed.