Flag?

[Ocean1]

You've got a level playing field. The manufacturer decided to get his products made overseas to the lowest price and the public agrees its worth less than the local price he is paying.Nobody else needs any say in that process.

Now if you want to keep jobs locally you might look at getting the Government to pull finger out, and encourage investment in industry instead of all the milk in one basket.

Until then, especially in the Provinces, you're fucked.

But I don't want to keep jobs locally. At least not the ones requiring businesses to charge twice as much for half the quality.

Which was the choice, if you recall, a BMC allegro which lasted maybe 5 years and cost a year's pay or a 2nd hand Corolla for about half that cost which is now teaching your grandkids to drive. Where the market's "protected" the old saw about shit being worth whatever you pay for it is complete bollox, there's fuck all correlation between quality and cost. There's not much difference in a free market for consumer goods for that matter.

So let's hear none of this shit about protecting local jobs, we made that choice years ago and decided more or less unanimously that the local jobs weren't worth the crap they produced.

Now, investing in local industry is a great idea, but like any other investment it's got to pay dividends in the long run. There's enough bleating about govt backhanders to their "business mates" already without actually providing that rank stupidity with something approaching valid ammunition.

[Voltaire]

But I don't want to keep jobs locally. At least not the ones requiring businesses to charge twice as much for half the quality.

Which was the choice, if you recall, a BMC alegro which lasted maybe 5 years and cost a year's pay or a 2nd hand Corolla for about half that cost which is now teaching your grandkids to drive. Where the market's "protected" the old saw about shit being worth whatever you pay for it is complete bollox, there's fuck all correlation between quality and cost. There's not much difference in a free market for consumer goods for that matter.

So let's hear none of this shit about protecting local jobs, we made that choice years ago and decided more or less unanimously that the local jobs weren't worth the crap they produced.

Now, investing in local industry is a great idea, but like any other investment it's got to pay dividends in the long run. There's enough bleating about govt backhanders to their "business mates" already without actually providing that rank stupidity with something approaching valid ammunition.

Totally agree about the whole Allegro/Lincoln Turner/etc crap made here.
If a computer/robot can do it or it can be 'outsourced' ( overseas) you don't want to be doing that.
I'm 'dabbling' in the Stock Market, but the highest dividend there is about 8% net, compared to Auckland houses that that are doing 16%+
Can't say I'd be keen to put much on it.
You can get a whopping 3.7% before tax from the bank.....
I wonder if IRD are looking at all those 'tax free' quick house sales...
Think I'll stick with old bikes as investments as at least I can ride them

[Ocean1]

Totally agree about the whole Allegro/Lincoln Turner/etc crap made here.
If a computer/robot can do it or it can be 'outsourced' ( overseas) you don't want to be doing that.
I'm 'dabbling' in the Stock Market, but the highest dividend there is about 8% net, compared to Auckland houses that that are doing 16%+
Can't say I'd be keen to put much on it.
You can get a whopping 3.7% before tax from the bank.....
I wonder if IRD are looking at all those 'tax free' quick house sales...
Think I'll stick with old bikes as investments as at least I can ride them

Aye, I'm in the business of replacing "labour" with better alternatives, if you plan to survive as a "labourer" I can literally show you why that's a bad move. And if you haven't planned to do something more likely to be successful then you've basically planned to fail.

I had hopes P2P concepts might make the Stock Market if not redundant then at least improve it's transparency. And yield. May work yet. In the meantime I've been investing in plant for the business workshop. With mixed results I must admit.

Now, I know a fella who has a small fleet of machines on his company's books. Uses them to visit potential clients, to quote jobs, etc. Hasn't got a legal leg to stand on of course but they haven't tapped him on the shoulder yet...

[Swoop]

As Akzle would put it, paraphrasing, that's the economoney for ya.

Eh?

Surely it would be "fucking Jews"?

[mashman]

Eh?

Surely it would be "fucking Jews"?

Nah... I was referring to the what and not who, although I was confident someone else would fill in that blank

[carbonhed]

John Key on the flag referendum.

https://www.facebook.com/pmjohnkey/v...type=2&theater

[oldrider]

John Key on the flag referendum.

https://www.facebook.com/pmjohnkey/v...type=2&theater

Change the prime minister and keep the flag? - Oh but we never get a referendum on that - only the politicians get that!

We (the electorate) only vote to give the parties permission to create a government among themselves and appoint a prime minister!

[bogan]

John Key on the flag referendum.

https://www.facebook.com/pmjohnkey/v...type=2&theater

Good vid, very logical, fair, and democratic. I had wondered about the order of referendums, but his answer makes perfect sense there.

[Tazz]

Good vid, very logical, fair, and democratic. I had wondered about the order of referendums, but his answer makes perfect sense there.

To me it just smells like something he wants to do while he's in power to have as another notch on his belt.

I'm not adverse to changing it, but the comment about 'chewing gum and walking at the same time' in relation to 26 million (or however much it is) not going to a more worthy cause right now kinda grinds my gears a bit, especially when you look at how magical our finance books are from his partys leadership, not.

The Patriotism aspect is an interesting one as personally I feel NZer's are very patriotic without being in your face about it, and most (I'd almost say all) are happy that way.
Do we really want to be compared to loud mouth yokels that wear nothing but American flag clothing yelling about how great Merica is, how no other country comes close and some shit about nascar and eagles?

[Banditbandit]

Aye, I'm in the business of replacing "labour" with better alternatives,

The problem then is that there is an increase in the unemployment pool - and therefore higher taxes to support people who are unable to find work ... so your profits are reduced anyway ... maybe not as much as if you were paying staff - but reduced nevertheless.

THe higher unemployment creates social problems, which are then taken care of by a range of social agencies and enforcement action - which further adds to your tax bill ...

[bogan]

To me it just smells like something he wants to do while he's in power to have as another notch on his belt.

I'm not adverse to changing it, but the comment about 'chewing gum and walking at the same time' in relation to 26 million (or however much it is) not going to a more worthy cause right now kinda grinds my gears a bit, especially when you look at how magical our finance books are from his partys leadership, not.

The Patriotism aspect is an interesting one as personally I feel NZer's are very patriotic without being in your face about it, and most (I'd almost say all) are happy that way.
Do we really want to be compared to loud mouth yokels that wear nothing but American flag clothing yelling about how great Merica is, how no other country comes close and some shit about nascar and eagles?

Could be, but that is entirely beside the point.

All costs are at the expense of something else you'd rather they be spent on. But as he said, money is still going where it is needed, and this needs to be done democratically, which costs.

Which would still be our choice, the flag change just formalises the silver fern symbolism we all identify with anyway; it is still our choice how over or understated we want to wear that symbol

The problem then is that there is an increase in the unemployment pool - and therefore higher taxes to support people who are unable to find work ... so your profits are reduced anyway ... maybe not as much as if you were paying staff - but reduced nevertheless.

THe higher unemployment creates social problems, which are then taken care of by a range of social agencies and enforcement action - which further adds to your tax bill ...

Or they could upskill/cross-train as we've been doing since we gave up the caves and mud-huts.

[Ocean1]

The problem then is that there is an increase in the unemployment pool - and therefore higher taxes to support people who are unable to find work ... so your profits are reduced anyway ... maybe not as much as if you were paying staff - but reduced nevertheless.

THe higher unemployment creates social problems, which are then taken care of by a range of social agencies and enforcement action - which further adds to your tax bill ...

The problem isn't in reducing the number of "labour units", it's training them to behave like humans, not machines.

Seriously, nobody's life is enhanced by minimum-skill drudgery. Get a life worth living, contribute to the explosion in living standards.

Taking the path of least resistance wasn't a good idea at school, and it only gets worse when you start asking people to pay for your efforts.

[oldrider]

The problem isn't in reducing the number of "labour units", it's training them to behave like humans, not machines.

Seriously, nobody's life is enhanced by minimum-skill drudgery. Get a life worth living, contribute to the explosion in living standards.

Taking the path of least resistance wasn't a good idea at school, and it only gets worse when you start asking people to pay for your efforts.

Purpose of Production = consumption - matching production to consumption demand - increases debt to the point where there is no money left to consume production!

Debt servicing has first priority - non consumption = production compelled to shut down - fortunately out of work producers can focus on changing the flag!

Simplistic of course but it does appear to be like that! Look around - the whole world is wallowing in debt! We appear to be screwed!

[Ocean1]

Purpose of Production = consumption - matching production to consumption demand - increases debt to the point where there is no money left to consume production!

Debt servicing has first priority - non consumption = production compelled to shut down - fortunately out of work producers can focus on changing the flag!

Simplistic of course but it does appear to be like that! Look around - the whole world is wallowing in debt! We appear to be screwed!

Nope, there's no requirement in that sequence for debt whatsoever.

[oldrider]

Nope, there's no requirement in that sequence for debt whatsoever.

No body borrows in order to set up and meet production targets? - can you (simplistically) explain what you mean by that? - serious question?

Edit: Anytime - I have to go to bed now.