Should new tyres really be that slippery!!

[G4L4XY]

That's crazy. Guy forks out for a brand new set of tyres. Then within half an hour or so he's potentially written off his bike. Poor guy.

[Maha]

Letting the bike do its own thing ok,
then what should a rider do with the throttle and clutch?
while the bike corrects itself?

does it depend on the situation?

what sort of response does a bike do, given different rider input?

will it depend on the tyre?, tyre/road temp, road condition wet, oily, tar bleed, gravel, normal

some difference would be found on bike size/weight and the design, size, construction of the tyre?

You will have less than a nano second to decide what to, no time to over think things. Instinct in any of the situations that you provide (road condition wet, oily, tar bleed, gravel, normal) is to 'do not panic'. The thread started did by trying to incorrectly correct his dilemma and ended up on the road with a less than pretty bike.

One wet cold day riding two up on the bike that you now own, I had four slips from the rear and one two wheeled slide, when you bought that bike, any sign of bike V road?

Construction of tyre?

[ellipsis]

That's crazy. Guy Forks out for a brand new set of tyres. Then within half an hour or so he's potentially written off his bike. Poor guy.

...that's karma for trying to blow up parliament...he lost more than his bike though, they hung him, didn't they?...

[Cosmik de Bris]

Use a belt sander. Start with 120 grit, then move to 360 after the first cut...

Nah, just ride with due restraint. My approach is to plan for a relaxed ride along a twisty bit of road, then keep increasing lean angles until the shiny surface is gone. Haven't had any real problems myself in recent years, less slippery mould release agent must be used nowadays.

That's basically what I do but I haven't noticed modern tyres to be slippery but I do have Supercorsas. Maybe some of the cheaper brands are the problem.

Cheers

[eldog]

You will have less than a nano second to decide what to, no time to over think things. Instinct in any of the situations that you provide (road condition wet, oily, tar bleed, gravel, normal) is to 'do not panic'. The thread started did by trying to incorrectly correct his dilemma and ended up on the road with a less than pretty bike.

One wet cold day riding two up on the bike that you now own, I had four slips from the rear and one two wheeled slide, when you bought that bike, any sign of bike V road?

Construction of tyre?

not panic is good advice. (i didnt)

if OP incorrectly tried to correct his dilemma, then apart from not panic, and try and let the bike do its thing. What else could someone in that position have done.

keep the same input on the throttle/clutch as at the start of the event?

try and use the clutch to feather the drive to the rear wheel?

Construction of tyre - does this have 2 areas of different rubber compounds, is it sports shaped more rounded? or flat like those on the larger HD? does this have an effect.
Stiffer tyres vs those on offroad type bikes - say a VeeStrom or a DR 650

does anyone know or care?

immaculate

[GrayWolf]

New set of Metzler Z01s for me last week. Rode the bike conservatively, but then, I normally do anyway. No problems.

You can take the man out of the Popo. You can't take the Popo out of the man.

[oldiebutagoody]

My money is on greasy hands being all over the tyre as it was fitted. I base that on the only constant I have seen over years of getting tyres fitted. There's always greasy hand marks on the rims and forks when I get it back, and a number of times I have thought to myself that I hope his hands stayed away from my new tread.

Well, that's my intuition on the OP's dilemma, compounded with a little inexperience, perhaps a little lack of discipline of the wrist given the situation. Probably just the perfect storm......

[Maha]

not panic is good advice. (i didnt)

if OP incorrectly tried to correct his dilemma, then apart from not panic, and try and let the bike do its thing. What else could someone in that position have done.

keep the same input on the throttle/clutch as at the start of the event?

try and use the clutch to feather the drive to the rear wheel?

Construction of tyre - does this have 2 areas of different rubber compounds, is it sports shaped more rounded? or flat like those on the larger HD? does this have an effect.
Stiffer tyres vs those on offroad type bikes - say a VeeStrom or a DR 650

does anyone know or care?

immaculate

Op said ''the back wheel suddenly lost traction and slid out to the left. As I instictively turned into the slide to try to correct it the bike''.
The result of his instinct was ''jerked back to the left, flipping me off over the front and onto the road with my bike crunching down next to me on it's left side''

Turning into a slide probably means he has watched a lot of speedway.

A slip or slide can happen at anytime on the road, on any tyre. Knowing not to grab shit and pull/twist when it does will more than likely allow you to buy a beer later and laugh about it. The front wheel works like a gyroscope in that, it is free to alter in direction, working against this force will often end in a sad face.

A front wheel wash is scary but I have survived two by not panicking. One on tar seal and one in gravel.

[ellipsis]

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[Owl]

A front wheel wash is scary but I have survived two by not panicking.

I bet there was no time to panic once you woke up?

[Maha]

I bet there was no time to panic once you woke up?

Having a Chuck Norris action figure cable tied to the front of the bike helps.

[MarkW]

Letting the bike do its own thing ok,
then what should a rider do with the throttle and clutch?
while the bike corrects itself?

does it depend on the situation?

what sort of response does a bike do, given different rider input?

will it depend on the tyre?, tyre/road temp, road condition wet, oily, tar bleed, gravel, normal

some difference would be found on bike size/weight and the design, size, construction of the tyre?

The OP described a reasonably typical highside. All be it happening at a pretty low speed.

A highside, in general terms, occurs when a loss of traction at the rear wheel normally caused by more acceleration than the traction available makes the rear tyre move sideways so that it is no longer following the front wheel. If the acceleration forces are removed before both wheels are pointing in the same direction then the sudden grip at the wider rear tyre will make the rear of the motorcycle try and overtake the front but with a sideways deflection. And that is when things get messy. The bigger the deflection and the faster the grip regain the greater the forces that go into the highside.

My first highside happened from a standing start from a muddy gutter on the side of SH1 in Orewa on a Suzuki GT550 in 1975. Sudden acceleration covered the tyre in mud whilst the bike moved forward onto the tar seal. The sharp left turn onto the tar seal at the same time made the rear tyre slide a long way right until I had worn through the mud. At which point the tyre gripped and over the handlebars I went. At about 5kph. Old motorcycles had lots of rigid sticky out bits and so apart from hugely damaged pride there was very little damage to the motorcycle. Which I fixed myself.

The theory of how to correct from a highside is to NOT remove the cause of the slide [the excessive acceleration for the traction available] abruptly but to try and control/minimise the sideways movement of the rear wheel so that when traction at the rear wheel resumes both of the wheels are facing in the same direction. On the road this is very hard to practice. And mistakes will be costly.

Since 1975 I have done a very large number of kilometres on a motorcycle. I haven’t highsided again. But I spent a lot of my early riding time riding [for those days] large road bikes on bumpy grass paddocks chasing my mates on their big road bikes. Indicators, mirrors and all expensive bits either removed or loose enough to be there but to rotate on the handlebars when the handlebars hit the ground. Speeds were not high – generally under 40kph but the sideways time was enormous and drops were frequent until one learnt what not to do and then evolved the technique into what to do. I still have a trail bike and feet up rear wheel slides coming out of a corner on my lifestyle block are good fun.

My current road motorcycles are relatively low on horsepower but are still more than capable of breaking the back end free on many of my local unsealed roads. So, subject to traffic, horseriders and my mood the Honda and the BMW both have regular tail out sessions. Sometimes the fronts wash as well.

The secret to keeping control?

Stay relaxed, look where you want to go, use weight through the footpegs, body movement and reflexes to bring things back to where you want them very smoothly.

I have had the same Honda motorcycle [as one of the 4 motorcycles that I own and ride] now for more than 25 years in one form or another. It has been set up to be very stable and predictable and to give me huge amounts of feedback as to what is going on where the tyres meet the road. Some of the road surfaces here in the Far North are not good and slick when wet [or melted in the summer] patches are everywhere.

I like the challenges of riding smoothly in the wet and slides on the slick bits do happen from time to time. I try to make sure that if I do have to ride over a slick bit that it is not enormous and allow the slide to happen, using the predictable grip of my carefully chosen tyres with very accurate pressures to progressive reduce the slide when the slick patch comes to an end. Once again, stay relaxed, look where you want to go, use weight through the footpegs, body movement and reflexes to bring things back to where you want them very smoothly.

Instinct when you are starting your riding on a motorcycle, is to completely remove the cause of the slide immediately. Training yourself to NOT do this takes time, effort and may cost both $ and bruises if you get it wrong. But every GP rider spends a lot of time sideways on an offroad motorcycle in an offroad situation for a reason.

And it’s fun as well.

[Crasherfromwayback]

A front wheel wash is scary but I have survived two by not panicking. One on tar seal and one in gravel.

You should start a rider training program! Or...not.

[Maha]

You should start a rider training program! Or...not.

This a survival skills thread and answering a questions sharing a personal viewpoint from past experience's is acceptable. Juvenile quips on the other hand, just highlights your immaturity.

Do have anything constructive on the subject to add?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Do have anything constructive on the subject to add?

Yep. You're talking shit.