Poverty measure ... doesn't make sense to me

[TheDemonLord]

To be honest Mashman used to be quite engaging and articulate in his debates whether he opposed your view or not, but the last few on here have been quite unintelligable and he has come across quite angry. Not sure why, hope he is okay.

Yeah - I miss that Mashman...

I think it's ever since he realised that regardless of how nice it would be and how much he wishes it were true - he's utopian vision will never come true.

As for his theories. In a nutshell as far as I can understand is that he wants to have no financial system at all. Everyone who wants to just works and gets everything for free. It is not policed in any way, rather just rely on the community spirit. Make of that what you will.

It's basically an updated form of Communism, for the Electronic age, repackaged with some extra technological woo in a desperate attempt to hide the connections to those happy fun Dictators of the 20th century.

[TheDemonLord]

I'm new here as well, perhaps you could explain what Mashman's measure of poverty is? (be it absolute or relative) I am having some trouble understanding his posts, perhaps due to lacking past context? They seem similar to Trumps speeches and tweets now I think about it, rather focused on telling us how good the results will be while being utterly bereft of any detail or logic about the implementation.

Paraphrased - they are this:

Some people have more than others and that is WRONG!!!111!oneoneone

It's the radical left wing/communist position.

Wonderful idea, completely unworkable in reality.

[Jeeper]

I think this govt is more keen to stop global warming/climate change than reduce poverty as increased emissions taxes will do nothing but increase it.

I seriously doubt they are that cunning. They are just happy they have job security for the next three years, particularly the ones in the Green Party.

[Woodman]

Lots of people commenting on the Stuff FB page when the topic of pay rises come up expect the Govt to be able get them one.

So you have downgraded "everyone" to "lots of people on Stuff FB page".

Lol........

[FJRider]

To have that attitude you must have a highly sort after skill to have the ability to negotiate your own pay rises?

Since the introduction of the employment contract act ... all you need to succeed is a sound work record, good ex employer references, easily demonstrated work skills and a positive work ethic. Such people can name their salary ... and get it.

Most people are not as highly skilled as you and I bet you would want govt assistance in some way eg raising the min wage and associated employment law if you were not as highly skilled as you are.

When minimum wage is raised further ... many will find their company "Restructuring" and will need to reapply for the job they have.

And their application will be rejected.

For a girl that is highly skilled ... you need to sell yourself more. I could suggest a few streets you could try selling yourself ...

[FJRider]

So you have downgraded "everyone" to "lots of people on Stuff FB page".

Lol........

Government raising the minimum wage is a great plan. easy money for the Government ... a bigger wage means a bigger tax sum paid into Inland Revenue with each pay (without increasing the tax rate) ... with NO financial outlay by the Government ... just a simple change in legislation.

A brilliant plan ... other Governments should have done it too ... Oh wait .. !!!

[gsxr]

Government raising the minimum wage is a great plan. easy money for the Government ... a bigger wage means a bigger tax sum paid into Inland Revenue with each pay (without increasing the tax rate) ... with NO financial outlay by the Government ... just a simple change in legislation.

A brilliant plan ... other Governments should have done it too ... Oh wait .. !!!

One could argue that the wage freeze between 1982 and 1984 put all workers behind the 8 ball of inflation for all subsequent years since compounding.
One could argue that the introduction of the individual employment contract act has reduced wages in line with inflation.
One could argue that cheap immigrant labour has reduced wages in NZ
One could argue that non residents greatly inflating house prices is a problem
But I am not one to argue ,
It is what it is

[FJRider]

One could argue that the wage freeze between 1982 and 1984 put all workers behind the 8 ball of inflation for all subsequent years since compounding.

Half the members on site now ... weren't even born then ...

One could argue that the introduction of the individual employment contract act has reduced wages in line with inflation.

I'd argue ... I got a pay increase. I might suggest however ... that some were then paid their net worth ...

One could argue that cheap immigrant labour has reduced wages in NZ

It wasn't high to start with ... and they do the work that Kiwi's wont lower themselves to do ...

One could argue that non residents greatly inflating house prices is a problem

There were plenty of wealthy Kiwi's that could have bought the houses. But they thought the prices (and their returns) would not be worth the risk ...

But I am not one to argue ,

I noticed ...

It is what it is

Flipping burgers at McDonald's could pay $20 an hour soon ...

[mashman]

I don't expect the government to interfere in my pay negotiation. In fact, I don't want the government to interfere at all in the job market or any other market. Let the buyer and seller work out whats best for them. Free market all the way.

And who is in control of the money supply? How is money issued under your free market? Because by the sounds of things, you're expecting everything to run without constraint, including the control of creation of money. That doesn't end well.

[Swoop]

Some lucky ones have had an invitation by one member ... to suck his cock.

So ... being referred to as "an egg" ... might seem ... um ... almost polite ...

We can only hope that his psychiatric treatment provider has discussed his underlying repressed homosexual inclinations.

So you have downgraded "everyone" to "lots of people on Stuff FB page".

That sounds as bad as BeTradeMe's community discussion board lunatics. Now THERE is a group of fuckwits.
Anyway, which fool reads Stuff? Hideously inaccurate drivel, written for the lowest morons to comprehend.

[Jeeper]

And who is in control of the money supply? How is money issued under your free market? Because by the sounds of things, you're expecting everything to run without constraint, including the control of creation of money. That doesn't end well.

Unconstrained money supply is indeed a disaster waiting to happen, hyperinflation is normally the outcome when free money is printed in an attempt to solve all social problems. One of the Greens idea a few years ago was to print money to pay off national debt - yeah sure, lets kill the economy at the same time.

My view of money supply or stock of money (currency in circulation and deposits in banks), is that its no different than any other commodity. Supply and demand has to match, but through market forces not government intervention (i.e. flooding or starving supply through whatever mechanism). Interest rate is the price of the money borrowed and lent, not something government created arbitrary target rate which is socially palatable.

Notion of uncontraint money supply would be the same as a manufactrer flooding the market with their goods, whether the market wants it or not (demand side ignorance). Free market doesn't work that way. Remember, with money also comes the multiplier effect. I deposit $100 in bank (issued by government). MS at $100. Same bank tgen lends $80 to someone else, who deposits it in their account. Money supply is now $180! And so on. In reality its still only $100 issued by government, but economy feels it multiple times. Minor government intervention can have massive headaches. I don't like headaches.

[T.W.R]

Unconstrained money supply is indeed a disaster waiting to happen, hyperinflation is normally the outcome when free money is printed in an attempt to solve all social problems. One of the Greens idea a few years ago was to print money to pay off national debt - yeah sure, lets kill the economy at the same time.

My view of money supply or stock of money (currency in circulation and deposits in banks), is that its no different than any other commodity. Supply and demand has to match, but through market forces not government intervention (i.e. flooding or starving supply through whatever mechanism). Interest rate is the price of the money borrowed and lent, not something government created arbitrary target rate which is socially palatable.

Notion of uncontraint money supply would be the same as a manufactrer flooding the market with their goods, whether the market wants it or not (demand side ignorance). Free market doesn't work that way. Remember, with money also comes the multiplier effect. I deposit $100 in bank (issued by government). MS at $100. Same bank tgen lends $80 to someone else, who deposits it in their account. Money supply is now $180! And so on. In reality its still only $100 issued by government, but economy feels it multiple times. Minor government intervention can have massive headaches. I don't like headaches.

Zimbabwe is a prime example

Though the thought of being able to swan around with trillions of dollars in your pocket or wipe your arse with billion dollar notes would be amusing

[Jeeper]

Zimbabwe is a prime example

Though the thought of being able to swan around with trillions of dollars in your pocket or wipe your arse with billion dollar notes would be amusing

Well, Zimbabwe has no immigration problems..... No migrants coming in and cheapening the local labour market.

[Jeeper]

Actually Zimbabwe has no problems with foreign ownership of housing stock either.

Low relative poverty as well, because median income is so low.

Be careful what we wish for.

[T.W.R]

Well, Zimbabwe has no immigration problems..... No migrants coming in and cheapening the local labour market.

Actually Zimbabwe has no problems with foreign ownership of housing stock either.

Low relative poverty as well, because median income is so low.

Be careful what we wish for.

Really
I think you should have a GOOD look at their history if you think that
Apart from being raped by England for years then being so in debt to the US that caused their hyperinflation, plus Mugabe's regime and what that caused too.
Massive illegal markets & slums and a huge number homeless people; poverty is rife there, not the we're hard done by poverty but real world poverty