Poverty measure ... doesn't make sense to me

[Graystone]

... done.

Too subtle? My point was that what you call an RBE is not what others call it (the capitalist version being the logical choice as it was the first use), it bears little resemblance (apart form desired outcome) even to The Venus Project's RBE. So currently there are at leash 3 different RBEs we could discuss, the capitalist one, the venus project's one, and Mashman's one...

[mashman]

Too subtle? My point was that what you call an RBE is not what others call it (the capitalist version being the logical choice as it was the first use), it bears little resemblance (apart form desired outcome) even to The Venus Project's RBE. So currently there are at leash 3 different RBEs we could discuss, the capitalist one, the venus project's one, and Mashman's one...

Ironically before capitalism/money there was Resource Based Economy that worked without the use of money. Perhaps you meant something else eh

@different apart from outcomes.

As such, not subtle at all. Just the usual that I've come to expect from people who ask for knowledge and then assume the position of authority on the matter. You asked what "my" RBE was and then decided it was something else, despite knowing nothing about "my" RBE. And here you are again trying to compare that which you admittedly know nothing about by comparing it to other resource based economic models .

You're a special gift and you're in good company. Welcome to KB.

[Graystone]

Ironically before capitalism/money there was Resource Based Economy that worked without the use of money. Perhaps you meant something else eh

@different apart from outcomes.

As such, not subtle at all. Just the usual that I've come to expect from people who ask for knowledge and then assume the position of authority on the matter. You asked what "my" RBE was and then decided it was something else, despite knowing nothing about "my" RBE. And here you are again trying to compare that which you admittedly know nothing about by comparing it to other resource based economic models .

You're a special gift and you're in good company. Welcome to KB.

The first use of the term RBE, was the capitalist one.

Perhaps you should have told me what it was then? You've had ample opportunity to do so yet instead berate and waffle on about my lack of ability to be a mind reader. You are the expert on your version of an RBE, but our opinions of how it will fit or work are equally as valid. Comparing it to others is only logical and pragmatic.

To be brutally honest, I don't think you have any idea how to get to your RBE, just the utopian dream of what it will result in. The road to hell is paved with good intentions; so I think I'll stick with capitalism and hope monarchism makes a comeback so we can get to the utopian dream that way.

[Woodman]

Ironically before capitalism/money there was Resource Based Economy that worked without the use of money.

When?
Who?
How?

Remember that I do think that a sort of moneyless society is where we are headed, just not a lawless self governing one. Think universal salary type of thing.

[Graystone]

Remember that I do think that a sort of moneyless society is where we are headed, just not a lawless self governing one. Think universal salary type of thing.

I agree, UBI with workers getting perks. Basic dolist society, curb breeding rights and other rights of the subsistence only class to ensure there is enough to go around. It would be an easy transition from there to the utopia Mashman talks about if humanity is worthy of it.

[mashman]

When?
Who?
How?

Remember that I do think that a sort of moneyless society is where we are headed, just not a lawless self governing one. Think universal salary type of thing.

When: Since the dawn of man to the point where money was created.
Who: Every culture before money... some cultures still live without money.
How: This is a long read, but it's actually pretty good.

Hey, I included a law that covered many things. Oh I've done the universal salary dance with a few people and they all realise that it actually achieves nothing. Even those who are trialing a UBI have categorically stated that it is not economically affordable. Primarily due to it being financially unaffordable given the current tax base (their words, not my opinion), but also taking the future into consideration given that there will be less of a tax base to pay for it, coz technology n lower paid jobs etc... In all likelihood, a UBI will see a policed state/communistic regime take centre stage. I have my reasons for that, but ain't gonna go into them here. Suffice to say that money always controls the money. Blockchain technology, whilst smart given its distributed mechanism, is nothing more than a bank that's hard to break into. The money coming out the other end will drive everything else after it i.e. buy individual lawlessness... and I know you don't like that. Take the money away and you can't buy your way around the law.

[mashman]

The first use of the term RBE, was the capitalist one.

Perhaps you should have told me what it was then? You've had ample opportunity to do so yet instead berate and waffle on about my lack of ability to be a mind reader. You are the expert on your version of an RBE, but our opinions of how it will fit or work are equally as valid. Comparing it to others is only logical and pragmatic.

To be brutally honest, I don't think you have any idea how to get to your RBE, just the utopian dream of what it will result in. The road to hell is paved with good intentions; so I think I'll stick with capitalism and hope monarchism makes a comeback so we can get to the utopian dream that way.

.

I did.. You've had ample opportunity to do so yet instead berate and waffle on about my lack of ability to be a mind reader. You are the expert on your version of an RBE, but our opinions of how it will fit or work are equally as valid. Comparing it to others is only logical and pragmatic. You might want to try practicing what you preach someday.

There you go thinking you know what I know for me again . You couldn't be further from the truth, or indeed the reality of how things are. There is no utopia. It's a myth. You'd know that if you had have researched RBE. Comparing it to others is only logical and pragmatic eh. You know what, for the first time you actually used some logic. It would be logical to read and understand the alternatives. So I spent the last 10 years doing that very thing. ALL of the evidence points towards Resource Based Economy being needed... unless you know of another economic model that would allow the financial economy to halt production without affecting the financial system? If not, you could ask me about that, because I also know how to do that very thing. Something that no other "expert" has figured out yet. In other words, I Am smarter than the entire planets minds put together. You can call me Marvin if you like, and I'll call you Amoeba.

[Graystone]

.

I did.. You've had ample opportunity to do so yet instead berate and waffle on about my lack of ability to be a mind reader. You are the expert on your version of an RBE, but our opinions of how it will fit or work are equally as valid. Comparing it to others is only logical and pragmatic. You might want to try practicing what you preach someday.

There you go thinking you know what I know for me again . You couldn't be further from the truth, or indeed the reality of how things are. There is no utopia. It's a myth. You'd know that if you had have researched RBE. Comparing it to others is only logical and pragmatic eh. You know what, for the first time you actually used some logic. It would be logical to read and understand the alternatives. So I spent the last 10 years doing that very thing. ALL of the evidence points towards Resource Based Economy being needed... unless you know of another economic model that would allow the financial economy to halt production without affecting the financial system? If not, you could ask me about that, because I also know how to do that very thing. Something that no other "expert" has figured out yet. In other words, I Am smarter than the entire planets minds put together. You can call me Marvin if you like, and I'll call you Amoeba.

See my last sentence in the previous post, if that is all the explanation you can give, then clearly you have no clue how to get from here, to your utopian RBE.

Your RBE is a Utopian Dream, Utopia in that people need and want for nothing, and dream in that it relies on the faith that people will be good and selfless. You may disagree with my assesment, so you are welcome to offer justification for its change...

It depends entirely on how you define 'affecting'; a monarchy could do every bit as good a job as your RBE, and offer a realistic transition as well. But I'm all ears as to how you would do that very thing?

[mashman]

See my last sentence in the previous post, if that is all the explanation you can give, then clearly you have no clue how to get from here, to your utopian RBE.

Your RBE is a Utopian Dream, Utopia in that people need and want for nothing, and dream in that it relies on the faith that people will be good and selfless. You may disagree with my assesment, so you are welcome to offer justification for its change...

It depends entirely on how you define 'affecting'; a monarchy could do every bit as good a job as your RBE, and offer a realistic transition as well. But I'm all ears as to how you would do that very thing?

... How unfortunate, I guess while your approach is the same as Trump's we can only hope your position never gets anywhere near what his has.

No it isn't. Why would I offer you any knowledge given that you've made it clear that you don't want it? You've had a few chances. I do love your pessimism though, and your ability to write off what others would be happy with in terms of access to resources.. I need to justify nothing. The evidence does that.

Affecting: The ability to eradicate poverty. That's 1. I've already mentioned the ability to halt production etc... Neither of which have been achieved irrespective of the number of monarchies that have walked this Earth. Other than that. You can stay all ears... coz why would I offer you any knowledge given that you've made it clear that you don't want it?

[Graystone]

... How unfortunate, I guess while your approach is the same as Trump's we can only hope your position never gets anywhere near what his has.

No it isn't. Why would I offer you any knowledge given that you've made it clear that you don't want it? You've had a few chances. I do love your pessimism though, and your ability to write off what others would be happy with in terms of access to resources.. I need to justify nothing. The evidence does that.

Affecting: The ability to eradicate poverty. That's 1. I've already mentioned the ability to halt production etc... Neither of which have been achieved irrespective of the number of monarchies that have walked this Earth. Other than that. You can stay all ears... coz why would I offer you any knowledge given that you've made it clear that you don't want it?

I've made it clear I do want it, I've asked for it multiple times. Simply because I do not agree with your assesment does not mean I do not want the information, or even understand it when (if) it is given. I'm not reading a 140 page thread. If you've wrote the info there, you can write it again here. Correct, you don't need to justify anything, but if you want other's to share your glowing opinion of your RBE then you do need to do a hell of a lot better than what you've done so far.

A monarchy can eradicate poverty, and lower production (obviously halting it entirely is moronic as we need to eat). We've had anarchy (or an RBE as you call it) far far longer (as you explained to Woodman) than we've had monarchys, so your point about them not achieved irrespective of the number of monarchies is irrelevant at best, and self defeating at worst. You said "If not, you could ask me about that, because I also know how to do that very thing." So I asked; so why do you keep dodging questions with all this irreverent waffle?
It's obviously because you truly don't know any of those things, just as other politicians have done and will continue to do, you seek to sway emotion with some Utopian Dream to get support, then have no real idea how to make it a reality, and probably no real intention of doing so. That is why we need a monarchy, so all this self-serving garbage from the likes of you, winston, trump, etc, is completely eliminated and those fit to govern can be trained for it from day 1, including the intelligence and ethics the aforementioned list is so devoid of.

[Katman]

A monarchy can eradicate poverty

When has one ever?

[Woodman]

A big part of why I think that a financial-less society is where we are headed is the rise of AI (robots and shit). Read an article recently about it and it basically said that we all need to get ready for the change as AI is coming. It is almost like AI is an asteroid on a collision course with Earth. It is not, it is something that is created by us in the search for higher profit margins. Are corporations that powerful that they can utterly change society? why can't governments stop the development of AI? Surely some form of legislation could be worked out where robots cannot do a job that a human is capable of?

[mashman]

I've made it clear I do want it, I've asked for it multiple times. Simply because I do not agree with your assesment does not mean I do not want the information, or even understand it when (if) it is given. I'm not reading a 140 page thread. If you've wrote the info there, you can write it again here. Correct, you don't need to justify anything, but if you want other's to share your glowing opinion of your RBE then you do need to do a hell of a lot better than what you've done so far.

A monarchy can eradicate poverty, and lower production (obviously halting it entirely is moronic as we need to eat). We've had anarchy (or an RBE as you call it) far far longer (as you explained to Woodman) than we've had monarchys, so your point about them not achieved irrespective of the number of monarchies is irrelevant at best, and self defeating at worst. You said "If not, you could ask me about that, because I also know how to do that very thing." So I asked; so why do you keep dodging questions with all this irreverent waffle?
It's obviously because you truly don't know any of those things, just as other politicians have done and will continue to do, you seek to sway emotion with some Utopian Dream to get support, then have no real idea how to make it a reality, and probably no real intention of doing so. That is why we need a monarchy, so all this self-serving garbage from the likes of you, winston, trump, etc, is completely eliminated and those fit to govern can be trained for it from day 1, including the intelligence and ethics the aforementioned list is so devoid of.

Oh good god. I'm not looking for followers. I've haven't even scratched the surface of RBE yet. You'd know this if you understood RBE. Yet you choose to ignore what I've stated or indeed have chosen to translate it and when corrected have claimed that it's me playing some form of game and that I didn't mean what I said in the way I meant it. I've danced that dance before... as well as dancing the dance with people who actually are curious and ask questions without making judgements until they've had their questions on the topic answered. I know the difference having done the dance a few hundred times now. I picked you from minute one, which is why I responded to you the way I did. Like I said, you've had chances and also as I've said, it's you that needs to come to terms with RBE on your own terms. That has nothing to do with me. It's all you. As for the 140 pages. I guess you missed the context in the post despite it being posted in bold and underlined. Yet another reason for me not to bother offering you a different perspective. It is entirely up to you.

No, a monarchy never has and therefore on the balance of probabilities a monarchy never will. I did not call an RBE anarchy. You did. That it shares traits, I mean, damn. @trump goading. Try another tactic, that might work. You make me laugh. That's primarily why I respond to your posts at the moment. You go ahead and believe anything you choose to believe. Just make sure you don't find out for sure eh... you'll be guaranteed to be satisfied then. Maybe you should read about Ubuntu Contributionism (first Mayor sworn in recently and should be fun to see if it catches on), or perhaps the New Earth Project, maybe AmUnity, or Free World Charter or Money Free Party or TZM or TVP or any one of the numbers of others who have formed to promote Resource Based Economy. Some are even creating crypto currencies. Maybe they'll give you the answers you're not looking for. You'd make an awesome queen though.

[Graystone]

When has one ever?

Fundamentally, has and can are different things, specifically, operate in different tenses. I say can because we have both the technology and production to do so (arguably we have already done so) and a monarchy is different from a democracy in that there is no disincentive to long term planning, there are no party squabbles and jockeying for position which bring the me-me-me policies to the forefront and leave things like the lowest class, environment, and future planning out of it.

[Graystone]

Oh good god. I'm not looking for followers. I've haven't even scratched the surface of RBE yet. You'd know this if you understood RBE. Yet you choose to ignore what I've stated or indeed have chosen to translate it and when corrected have claimed that it's me playing some form of game and that I didn't mean what I said in the way I meant it. I've danced that dance before... as well as dancing the dance with people who actually are curious and ask questions without making judgements until they've had their questions on the topic answered. I know the difference having done the dance a few hundred times now. I picked you from minute one, which is why I responded to you the way I did. Like I said, you've had chances and also as I've said, it's you that needs to come to terms with RBE on your own terms. That has nothing to do with me. It's all you. As for the 140 pages. I guess you missed the context in the post despite it being posted in bold and underlined. Yet another reason for me not to bother offering you a different perspective. It is entirely up to you.

No, a monarchy never has and therefore on the balance of probabilities a monarchy never will. I did not call an RBE anarchy. You did. That it shares traits, I mean, damn. @trump goading. Try another tactic, that might work. You make me laugh. That's primarily why I respond to your posts at the moment. You go ahead and believe anything you choose to believe. Just make sure you don't find out for sure eh... you'll be guaranteed to be satisfied then. Maybe you should read about Ubuntu Contributionism (first Mayor sworn in recently and should be fun to see if it catches on), or perhaps the New Earth Project, maybe AmUnity, or Free World Charter or Money Free Party or TZM or TVP or any one of the numbers of others who have formed to promote Resource Based Economy. Some are even creating crypto currencies. Maybe they'll give you the answers you're not looking for. You'd make an awesome queen though.

I think fundamental to any great society is the free sharing of information, starting with how the society works. Given your great relucatance to share such information about your RBE society, I guess you disagree, and that should make anyone very weary of that which you promote.

You said an RBE had been around before as well, that clearly didn't fare any better than the monarchys. In fact it was around far longer, so on the balance of probabilities... monarchy comes out on top again! Pragmatic and logical comparisons work.

I have read about many of those things, they are not the RBE you put forward, I'd rather not sully their versions by assuming their attributes transfer to your anarchistic bastardisation of the term. Cryptocurrencies are a joke, let's not bother going there.