The Bucket Foundry

**WilDun** · 19th April 2018, 12:24

Originally Posted by Flettner

You are aware that I built a gearbox for an electric helicopter?

Neil,
No, but we are now aware - good to see your company involved with projects like this!! ....... BTW I am often referring to fixed wing aircraft when talking props.

What do you reckon the biggest breakthrough will be? - better batteries, high torque motors (possibly eliminating gearboxes), more efficient smaller diameter props ( in this case rotor blades)? ........ or all of the above?

Husa,
Wasn't trying to scupper your views, but I do think that electric will be big in the near future - get in quick and be the first to build a recharge station in Greymouth!

Ken,
Is it possible that the high silicon content of the aluminium could be coaxed out (precipitate) to provide a hard wearing outer surface for the disc? (think GM tried that with unlinered cylinder block castings many years ago), but I guess you are aware of that anyway and at 18% silicon that will be happening with your discs!

https://www.highpowermedia.com/blog/...utectic-liners

**husaberg** · 20th April 2018, 07:43

Originally Posted by WilDun

Husa,
Wasn't trying to scupper your views, but I do think that electric will be big in the near future - get in quick and be the first to build a recharge station in Greymouth!

https://www.highpowermedia.com/blog/...utectic-liners

No offence taken Will, as for a charger for electric vehicles ,We already have one.
What was interesting was that you said no fires or explosions with electric power,hydrogen fuel cells and Lithium batteries do just that.
The coast is quite happy to use our extensive natural gas reverses to power generators either turbine or better still converted Cat V12's to make electricity to sell to north islanders.
We of course are not being allowed to use are abundant water and fall to create clean hydro power. Or burn our coal to create thermal power.
In the future We could always use orange oil made from removing the oil from the peel to power our bikes much the same octane as petrol but in order to do that we are going to need a lot of oranges.
My plan is to remove Aucklands population to get enough land for us to grow the oranges all the way from Northland to the Bombay hills Doing this it reduces much of the need for petrol as well. Its a win win.

**Grumph** · 20th April 2018, 09:43

There's another indigenous renewable fuel which is forgotten. Macrocarpa oil. Here in Canty there are literally hundreds of miles of Macrocarpa hedges on the plains - all of which require trimming - usually annually.
Once upon a time I worked for DYC/Mauri Bros in ChCh - and the head chemist was doing a project to extract Lavender oil in bulk. This has led to a profitable industry too. Anyway, he had an idea and put a tonne or so of mac cuttings in the extractor to see what the rate of oil return was like. Phenomenal.
It's got a calorific value about the same as diesel too. It was too far outside the company's field - mainly foodstuffs - so it got written up and shelved.

From memory it was once suggested as a fuel for ChCh hospital boilers. Would have been ideal.

**WilDun** · 20th April 2018, 10:05

Originally Posted by husaberg

No offence taken Will, as for a charger for electric vehicles ,We already have one.
What was interesting was that you said no fires or explosions with electric power,hydrogen fuel cells and Lithium batteries do just that.

I expected you'd say that, but then humans have been known to explode and go on fire (spontaneous combustion? - yea right) when sitting smoking and farting in front of the fire due to a combination of methane gas buildup, body fat- and a spark!!! - life's not without risk at any time!

Originally Posted by husaberg

The coast is quite happy to use our extensive natural gas reverses to power generators either turbine or better still converted Cat V12's to make electricity to sell to north islanders.
We of course are not being allowed to use are abundant water and fall to create clean hydro power. Or burn our coal to create thermal power.
In the future We could always use orange oil made from removing the oil from the peel to power our bikes much the same octane as petrol but in order to do that we are going to need a lot of oranges.
My plan is to remove Aucklands population to get enough land for us to grow the oranges all the way from Northland to the Bombay hills Doing this it reduces much of the need for petrol as well. Its a win win.

They (ie the developers) love to use the most productive land to build houses on, the soil in Mangere is the most fertile soil in Auckland - it's now completely built up (except for one old Chinaman who refuses to budge - all power to him!) - now they have turned their attention to the beautiful land around Pukekohe and the Bombay hills! .... Greed is driving everything more and more.
Just think of all the bikes which you could power off this land! instead we get houses and more houses - someone has got his priorities wrong!

But where would the Auckland population be moved to? - the solid rocky foundations around Greymouth? - we would be a huge asset and a great leap forward for Greymouth!! - and you could then have as many charging stations as you want (the coal could then probably be released to be used to provide electricity), the Deniston Incline could be the basis for a huge fun park. - Just picture it, downtown Greymouth could become a place full of rich people sitting outside cafes sipping wine and coffee on a balmy West Coast evening and who knows, there could even be the possibility of a proper international GP track being built there! - making it a truly cosmopolitan place - like Raglan!

Originally Posted by Grumph

There's another indigenous renewable fuel which is forgotten. Macrocarpa oil. Here in Canty there are literally hundreds of miles of Macrocarpa hedges on the plains ............. Anyway, he had an idea and put a tonne or so of mac cuttings in the extractor to see what the rate of oil return was like. Phenomenal.
It's got a calorific value about the same as diesel too.........

GRUMPH,
I think the populations of both Auckland and Canterbury should be evacuated to Greymouth and turn it into a supercity, so that the land can be dedicated to the growing of orange trees and macrocarpa (with Lavender in between)!

The mind boggles at the possibilities!

**Grumph** · 20th April 2018, 12:49

The mind indeed boggles, Will...Have you ever been to Greymouth ? I'd like to know the number of days in a year you could sit outside, LOL.

I've come close to dying of exposure/hypothermia in the pits at the Greymouth street races. Global warming would need to accelerate a tad to make me move over there. Plus, when the Alpine fault goes - as it will - the West Coast will either break off as another island or rollover and disappear...

**Michael Moore** · 20th April 2018, 13:36

Ken, how does casting/heat treatment/machining time/costs compare to machining the discs from plate, eliminating the hours-long heat treat process? I've watched some videos of modern high-speed CNC mills/CNC lathes with subspindles that zoom through aluminum plate at amazing speed. I realize that there could be issues of "we're already set up to do it this way" but was wondering if you had any idea how things would compare if you were approaching this as a new product with no legacy infrastructure involved?

I talked to a tech at Langcourt one time about having my Sherpa T hubs nikasiled as the chrome plate friction surface was separating. He mentioned they'd done plating of kart rotors for a customer.

cheers,
Michael

**husaberg** · 20th April 2018, 13:40

Originally Posted by Grumph

There's another indigenous renewable fuel which is forgotten. Macrocarpa oil. Here in Canty there are literally hundreds of miles of Macrocarpa hedges on the plains - all of which require trimming - usually annually.
Once upon a time I worked for DYC/Mauri Bros in ChCh - and the head chemist was doing a project to extract Lavender oil in bulk. This has led to a profitable industry too. Anyway, he had an idea and put a tonne or so of mac cuttings in the extractor to see what the rate of oil return was like. Phenomenal.
It's got a calorific value about the same as diesel too. It was too far outside the company's field - mainly foodstuffs - so it got written up and shelved.

From memory it was once suggested as a fuel for ChCh hospital boilers. Would have been ideal.

We don't need the wood oil we can gasify the wood directly WW2 style....

Originally Posted by Grumph

The mind indeed boggles, Will...Have you ever been to Greymouth ? I'd like to know the number of days in a year you could sit outside, LOL.

Originally Posted by Grumph

I've come close to dying of exposure/hypothermia in the pits at the Greymouth street races. Global warming would need to accelerate a tad to make me move over there. Plus, when the Alpine fault goes - as it will - the West Coast will either break off as another island or rollover and disappear...

Raindays here about the day as Auckland longer summer days than either CHCH or Auckland as well. most of the rain here occurs at night.
take a look that apline fault is closer to you than me Grumph.....
The Greymouth climate is sub tropical ,the main streets are lined with palm trees......

**F5 Dave** · 20th April 2018, 13:53

I can see in my mind rows of commisioned macracapa burning gyro engines revving full tit day and night on the banks of Greymouth to try improve the weather to increase tourist trade.

**husaberg** · 20th April 2018, 14:04

Originally Posted by F5 Dave

I can see in my mind rows of commisioned macracapa burning gyro engines revving full tit day and night on the banks of Greymouth to try improve the weather to increase tourist trade.

i Have spent a fair bit of time in Welly Dave, i don't think welly should be involved in any discussions about the merits of other places weather

**WilDun** · 20th April 2018, 16:33

Y'know, I think we may have derailed the thread.... sorry Michael, and Ken - we just got involved in some local BS!

**Flettner** · 20th April 2018, 19:19

https://youtu.be/wE3fmFTtP9g

perhaps this is the new hybrid vehical we might be using in the near future, Mmmm, running on Macrocarpa oil too.
Although orange peel might be good for hiding the nitro smell, which will be necessary as they will get raced.

**F5 Dave** · 20th April 2018, 20:46

Originally Posted by husaberg

i Have spent a fair bit of time in Welly Dave, i don't think welly should be involved in any discussions about the merits of other places weather

Sitting here in the conservatory with no heat in a T shirt drinking nice beers.

**husaberg** · 20th April 2018, 21:01

Originally Posted by F5 Dave

Sitting here in the conservatory with no heat in a T shirt drinking nice beers.

By beers do you mean a red wine in a conservatory. We drink outdoors under the stars.

**ken seeber** · 21st April 2018, 00:39

Originally Posted by Michael Moore

Ken, how does casting/heat treatment/machining time/costs compare to machining the discs from plate, eliminating the hours-long heat treat process? I've watched some videos of modern high-speed CNC mills/CNC lathes with subspindles that zoom through aluminum plate at amazing speed. I realize that there could be issues of "we're already set up to do it this way" but was wondering if you had any idea how things would compare if you were approaching this as a new product with no legacy infrastructure involved?

cheers,
Michael

Michael, it's a good question. One key consideration was the actual material. By using the A390 alloy, the same as we use for our pistons (and in fact the same material used for the alloy bores used by Porsche etc as Will was alluding to) which has very good hard wearing properties, it was a no brainer for us. Yes we could have used our CNC vertical mill to machine out from plates, but the material consideration was key for us at the time. Any commercially rolled/wrought plate, despite maybe having a high Brinell hardness, will and do score and scuff very quickly due to not having any abrasive resistance.

At the time of the design, we did investigate plasma coating of the rubbing faces, some European kart mfgs do have these (really expensive discs done this way, most usually solid), but the coating was near impossible to have done in Oz and expensive. Maybe things have changed.

As to the A390, when used for cylinder bores, the final surface is acid etched to remove the outermost layer of the supporting aluminium to leave the silicone particles exposed to create the very hard wear surface. As this is a fairly complex process, I know/think that Sunnen developed a "honing" process that used a form of felt that was saturated with some abrasive slurry, this abrading the aluminium away leaving the silicone particles proud. This, I think again, was aimed at reconditioners of B&S engines that also use the A390 as a bore material.

Spose I haven't really answered your question if we were to do it again. This being the case, we'd have to reconsider all the factors of today, so who knows. But importantly, it was fun and satisfying to design and make the rotating casting machine and the tooling. I like making stuff. Gotta have something to think about when you wake up at 2.30 am. Sort of no different to you guys doing the Kawasaki 175 barrel (I think it was).

Sorry Husa, but the only day we have ever been in Greymouth ( around 2009 catching the TransAlpine train from ChCh) it was pissing down with rain, so we just went to the pub with a wood fire and didn't even see one palm tree.