Australia Fire storm.

**Katman** · 11th January 2020, 06:51

Originally Posted by MaxPenguin

True, saving the planet is a dumb catchphrase.

I fear that the growing movement that has been addressing the 'health' of the planet we live on, is being hijacked and subverted by the whole 'climate change' story.

And as I said earlier, I also fear that the whole 'climate change' story is being driven by some for personal gain.

**MaxPenguin** · 11th January 2020, 07:56

Originally Posted by Katman

I fear that the growing movement that has been addressing the 'health' of the planet we live on, is being hijacked and subverted by the whole 'climate change' story.

And as I said earlier, I also fear that the whole 'climate change' story is being driven by some for personal gain.

Personal gain doesn't necessarily mean bad though.

**MaxPenguin** · 11th January 2020, 08:03

Originally Posted by FJRider

Dumb ideas are only dumb if they don't work.

Saving the Planet gets people thinking (not always an easy task) and doing (well ... some are doing) stuff ....

Fair enough

Originally Posted by FJRider

A few years ago, the hole in the Ozone layer was the big worry. The planet was doomed (apparently) if we didn't sort it out quick smart.

But now the hole is the smallest it's been. Due (apparently) to unprecedented warm weather patterns. But (apparently) there is no evidence it's due to Climate change. Go figure ...

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard...-its-discovery

Wasn't it fixed by making changes to aerosol products etc. NASA found the hole and legislation was put through and it worked.

**Katman** · 11th January 2020, 08:05

Originally Posted by MaxPenguin

Personal gain doesn't necessarily mean bad though.

It usually does when it over-rides collective gain though.

**mashman** · 11th January 2020, 08:10

Found this and thought of you... just in case you'd like to add something.....

"Why is this important?

AUSTRALIA IS NOT RUNNING OUT OF WATER...
IT IS BEING SOLD FOR PROFIT !

Let's stop arguing about whether climate change is real or a hoax, it really doesn't matter any more. Australia is in a catastrophic state of emergency and if these water mis-use practices are not immediately ceased, the situation will become even more disastrous."

**Katman** · 11th January 2020, 08:25

Originally Posted by mashman

Found this and thought of you... just in case you'd like to add something.....

"Why is this important?

AUSTRALIA IS NOT RUNNING OUT OF WATER...
IT IS BEING SOLD FOR PROFIT !

Let's stop arguing about whether climate change is real or a hoax, it really doesn't matter any more. Australia is in a catastrophic state of emergency and if these water mis-use practices are not immediately ceased, the situation will become even more disastrous."

I've thought for some time now that one day wars will be fought over water.

**mashman** · 11th January 2020, 08:31

Originally Posted by ellipsis

..I'm nonplussed...but I'm not exactly sure about what, yet...I must have to learn to worry a lot more about the inevitabilities of life on a living planet, run by silly, humans...the story about the little Dutch boy with his finger in the Dyke doesn't cut the mustard when it comes to tectonics, a completely changing sphere we live on, tidal movements dictated by weather situations that have changed constantly over millenia due to ice, heat , ice , heat, other extraterrestrial shit happening, sun fluctuations and more volcanic intrusions and then more shit and multitudes of extinctions before any thing with half a brain could scratch it's own arse and smile...

...all this, we can save the planet shit is really just drivel...we are here until Gaia, Mother Nature shifts the goal posts, again...any wank that has strong opinions on what humans can do to stop whats gonna happen next is, well...a bit silly

And yet despite all of those things, we have survived. The stories of collective human action aren't boys with fingers in dykes (cupcakes suddenly leaps to mind for some reason). It resulted in revolution... even if inherently useless as they blamed the people, removed them, and then scratched their collective heads for the next 3 to 4 hundred years as to what went wrong ha ha ha haaaaaaa... anyhoo...

Yup... no one gets out alive and despite everything that has been thrown at us so far, we're still here... but not for much longer if you comprehend the outcomes of 450+ active nuclear reactors no longer being maintained by humans. Tis the only real threat we pose to this place. As such the Save The Planet wank brigade actually have a point for a change, and a point on the not so silly side where nature is unlikely to wipe us out in a billion years or so... and somewhat ironically they're using the populist evidence against itself and they're getting shouted at for it.

But hey, old cunts and excited puppies.

**mashman** · 11th January 2020, 08:42

Originally Posted by Katman

I've thought for some time now that one day wars will be fought over water.

Well, pun intended, there have been a few already. When Money/The Market dictates the destination of water, we must expect these things happen. This is the way it has been, is, and will forever be until things change... and if we're lucky to make it that far blah blah blah......... fact.

**MaxPenguin** · 11th January 2020, 09:02

Originally Posted by mashman

Found this and thought of you... just in case you'd like to add something.....

"Why is this important?

AUSTRALIA IS NOT RUNNING OUT OF WATER...
IT IS BEING SOLD FOR PROFIT !

Let's stop arguing about whether climate change is real or a hoax, it really doesn't matter any more. Australia is in a catastrophic state of emergency and if these water mis-use practices are not immediately ceased, the situation will become even more disastrous."

We will be hearing a lot more about water footprint. Its a good thing.

**Katman** · 11th January 2020, 09:04

Originally Posted by mashman

Let's stop arguing about whether climate change is real or a hoax....

My only problem with that is, if the whole 'climate change' story is truly for the betterment of mankind and the planet, why would it be based on a hoax?

And conversely, if the whole 'climate change' story is based on a hoax then it is absolutely vital to expose that hoax so we can get back to concentrating on issues that truly are for the betterment of mankind and the planet.

**MaxPenguin** · 11th January 2020, 09:22

Originally Posted by Katman

My only problem with that is, if the whole 'climate change' story is truly for the betterment of mankind and the planet, why would it be based on a hoax?

And conversely, if the whole 'climate change' story is based on a hoax then it is absolutely vital to expose that hoax so we can get back to concentrating on issues that truly are for the betterment of mankind and the planet.

It is real, how can it not be after ripping down trees and spewing co2 into the atmosphere with less ability to scrub it out.
The environmental movement is healthy at the moment with massive awareness and growth. The next few generations will push the changes we need. If not we are fucked, and deserve to be.

**Jeeper** · 11th January 2020, 09:51

As the sun burns it's fuel and cools, relatively, won't that result in less gravitational pull. Which over time means Earth will drift away from it, thus cooling our atmosphere naturally? Of course non of us would be alive by then, but things are in motion for this planet to die eventually.

Let's make it last long as we can by taking care of what we can. Less waste, more renewable energy and materials.

**pritch** · 11th January 2020, 10:00

Originally Posted by Katman

I've thought for some time now that one day wars will be fought over water.

That has been thought to be a possibility for years now.

Water is a finite resource. It may not have seemed that way but The Australian use of water for commercial purposes has caused major problems there.

So too in California, the demand for almond milk is using unrealistic amounts of water. The big commercial almond orchards, as well as being very thirsty, are causing problems for bees too. They contract beekeepers to pollinate the trees but they won't stop using insecticides. Irrigation for dairying is also causing problems in California.

We are not immune, dairying in Canterbury, and local councils selling water to Chinese corporations for peanuts. Mind boggling.

Anybody who doubts that the climate is changing should hop on their bike and ride down to the glaciers. (The West Coast Highway is a great ride.) At the Fox glacier you ride in past lots of little signs: "In 1850 the glacier was here," "In 1960 the glacier was here." Etc etc. The glacier is but a small fraction of its former size, even compared to where it was 1960. Depressing.

In case you need something else to worry about, there is a shortage of sand for building too.
Some of the places from which sand is extracted are suffering ecological damage, the Mekong Delta f'rinstance. The sand in the big deserts is no use for building. The constantly shifting sands of the Sahara has rounded off the grains. Round sand is not suitable for making cement.

**Jeeper** · 11th January 2020, 10:09

Fights over water rights are not a future things. They have been fought since the ancient times. Most of the old cities were always located next to a river, both for transportation and Agri/human use.