Why can't people be taught proper english as thier second language

[Hitcher]

If Polynesian languages had no written form, why, when the clever Colonials came to put them down on paper did they not simply spell them phonetically?
Why is 'wh' said as 'f' in Maori and why is a 'c' in Fijian said as 'th'?!
Why not write Fangarei and Rokothoko....hmmmmmmmmmm????!!!!

Because New Zealanders have a "dead ear" for the subtleties of how speakers of other languages actually articulate things, is one reason.

New Zealander's diction is, quite frankly, frightful. We should take lessons from (some) South Australians and South Africans. Our use of the dark L is horrendous, and our vowels are cringeworthy. It's largely due to laziness, similar to our approach to written language.

Ear Nuw Zillin (our national air carrier)
Red Buw (a popular caffeinated beverage)
Car puw (a means of commuting where more than one person shares a vehicle)
Dutch dugger (a building contractor with a digging tool)
Spear toire (useful for roadside emergencies)
Ear Force (a branch of the armed services)
Orefuw (Like really bad, like)

[idb]

Because New Zealanders have a "dead ear" for the subtleties of how speakers of other languages actually articulate things, is one reason.

New Zealander's diction is, quite frankly, frightful. We should take lessons from (some) South Australians and South Africans. Our use of the dark L is horrendous, and our vowels are cringeworthy. It's largely due to laziness, similar to our approach to written language.

Ear Nuw Zillin (our national air carrier)
Red Buw (a popular caffeinated beverage)
Car puw (a means of commuting where more than one person shares a vehicle)
Dutch dugger (a building contractor with a digging tool)
Spear toire (useful for roadside emergencies)
Ear Force (a branch of the armed services)
Orefuw (Like really bad, like)

But they surely wouldn't have been Nuw Zillinders at that time.
The local variations and subtleties of pronunciation marking us out as an independent tribe of English-speaking people and of which we are the proud inheritors would still have been in development.

[ManDownUnder]

Because New Zealanders have a "dead ear" for the subtleties of how speakers of other languages actually articulate things, is one reason.

New Zealander's diction is, quite frankly, frightful. We should take lessons from (some) South Australians and South Africans. Our use of the dark L is horrendous, and our vowels are cringeworthy. It's largely due to laziness, similar to our approach to written language.

Ear Nuw Zillin (our national air carrier)
Red Buw (a popular caffeinated beverage)
Car puw (a means of commuting where more than one person shares a vehicle)
Dutch dugger (a building contractor with a digging tool)
Spear toire (useful for roadside emergencies)
Ear Force (a branch of the armed services)
Orefuw (Like really bad, like)

Complete Bollocks
Regional interpretations of any language are simply that interpretations. If anything it makes the interpretation correct (being local) and the foreign (i.e. Queen's English being foistered upon us) the wrong one.

Spell anything phonetically and see how it varies from locale to locale. Does that make any of them wrong?

Nope

Just different. If anyone understands the dynamic of regional language develoment I'd have thought you'd be the guy Hitch.

[Hitcher]

But they surely wouldn't have been Nuw Zillinders at that time.
The local variations and subtleties of pronunciation marking us out as an independent tribe of English-speaking people and of which we are the proud inheritors would still have been in development.

You misunderstand me. I wasn't talking about then, I was talking about now. Whoever originally transcribed Fijian had a better ear than we do.

Fijians don't pronounce the D in Nadi as a hard D, as we do. Rather than somebody concoct a new symbol or character for that sound, they used the same D as we do, but pronounced it differently. There are numberous other tongues besides those of the South Pacific that do similarly, e.g. Spanish's double L, which is pronounced "Yuh" in words such as villa or Guillermo.

Read more here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fijian_language and follow the links.

[ManDownUnder]

Fijians don't pronounce the D in Nadi as a hard D, as we do. Rather than somebody concoct a new symbol or character for that sound, they used the same D as we do, but pronounced it differently. There are numberous other tongues

That's numberous with the silent "b"?

[Hitcher]

Just different. If anyone understands the dynamic of regional language develoment I'd have thought you'd be the guy Hitch.

I have nothing against regional language development, or New Zealanders having their own "twang". I am proud of my Taranaki lilt and would never advocate that we all spoke like the Queen of England. But there is, in my view, a big difference between a "twang" and sloppy mangling. Hardly surprising really as spoken and written English is no longer taught in this country, with a consequence that most folk don't know any better or don't give a fuck, and get extremely agitated by anybody who suggests there should be care and attention given to written and spoken language.

One day in the future, Jorj the Barbarian will want to describe something to his girlfriend Uliss and wish he had more than 50 available grunts, snorts and wheezes.

[Hitcher]

That's numberous with the silent "b"?

Indeed. Like swimming has a silent P...

[ManDownUnder]

I have nothing against regional language development, or New Zealanders having their own "twang". I am proud of my Taranaki lilt and would never advocate that we all spoke like the Queen of England. But there is, in my view, a big difference between a "twang" and sloppy mangling. Hardly surprising really as spoken and written English is no longer taught in this country, with a consequence that most folk don't know any better or don't give a fuck, and get extremely agitated by anybody who suggests there should be care and attention given to written and spoken language.

One day in the future, Jorj the Barbarian will want to describe something to his girlfriend Uliss and wish he had more than 50 available grunts, snorts and wheezes.

All good - we may be in the same book - if not on the same page then. I still have an issue with one or two examples you gave "Dutch Dugger".

"Deetch Deega" perhaps? Depends which side of the "diotch" you're on really doesn't it?

[ManDownUnder]

That's numberous with the silent "b"?

Sir - if I may humbly request a small serving of humble pie. I note (with interest) you were correct in your original use of the word, albeit an obscure one.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/numberous

Live and learn huh?

[007XX]

I, for once, will just on this one...

Interesting points you gents are raising, though...I never really looked at it from this angle, as a person for whom english is a second language.

*walking quietly out of the room...*

[MSTRS:Me]

*walking quietly out of the room...*

*Follows with full attention focussed...and returns to the Arse thread*

[ManDownUnder]

I, for once, will just on this one...

Interesting points you gents are raising, though...I never really looked at it from this angle, as a person for whom english is a second language.

*walking quietly out of the room...*

No no - you may be just the person ... take the name of your home country. The place of your birth. En Francaise? And In English.

They are the same thing except to the ear, which is exactly my point

[007XX]

*Follows with full attention focussed...and returns to the Arse thread*

You like to watch me leave, don't you?...perv!

[Hitcher]

"Deetch Deega" perhaps? Depends which side of the "diotch" you're on really doesn't it?

Definitely other side of the Tesman that one. A dutch dugger is a doughty kiwi chap who knows how to productively wield his implement. A deetch deeger, OTOH, knows how to breast-feed it.

[Hitcher]

as a person for whom english is a second language.

It's refreshing to see an Aucklander finally admit to that one.