A sense of civic duty

[LilSel]

opps... I went a bit ... my bad...
(have a good weekend everyone )

[jrandom]

I've never gambled a cent in my life, and never intend to.

Gambling is effectively a tax on the innumerate, who unfortunately tend to occupy the lowest rungs of the socioeconomic ladder. It therefore redistributes wealth in the most unequitable manner possible.

Whilst, in an ideal world, I would like to take a perfectly minimalist position of letting everyone make their own choices, unfortunately human nature is such that a society that allows excessive freedom of choice will always be burdened with the sad detritus of foolish people who used that freedom to destroy their lives.

And I, for one, don't have the ability to dismiss such things. Civilisation should minimise, not facilitate, human misery.

You'll never eliminate gambling on sporting events, so it might as well be legal and regulated, but lotteries and automated gambling machines are good for nothing but exploitation of those who don't happen to be blessed with appropriately logical faculties of reason and self-control.

[F5 Dave]

Well written. Bling awarded if I can be bothered.

As I said it is not so much 'am I my brother's keeper' as 'look around at the effect this is having & decide if this whole gaming situation is worth it'.

[janno]

Well, I was very excited the first time I went to a casino, as I thought it would be glam and mysterious with Sean Connery as James Bond tucked away somewhere.

But it was revolting. Frantic looking people in shorts and jandals staring at the pokies while they gambled away what was probably their mortgage and grocery money. It had only just opened (1990 something I think) but already looked pretty seedy.

It's one thing that sticks out for me as definitely not like the movies. Nothing sexy or fun about it at all. In fact I don't think I saw one person smile the whole hour I was there.

I'm in the "ban them completely" camp. You could argue that some will move to internet gambling, but I'd hope more than a few would give up simply because the temptation wasn't there.

[Swoop]

Well, I was very excited the first time I went to a casino,
But it was revolting.

Do you know how often the carpet around the pokie machines is replaced?

It has something to do with the punters having a tube down their leg and not getting up and leaving the machine...

[ynot slow]

As an aisde,don't we gamble with our lives each time we are on the crappy NZ roading system,was in our local cafe/bar a couple of Sundays ago,about 6-8 people in there,2 of us walked out,me with $25.00 from $4.00,another guy with $60.00 from $10.00,rest were still in ther trying to get jackpot,which could go off anytime from $500-1000.

I spent a couple of hours that day enjoying a few beers and watching the warriors,my wife played for a while,I gave her a couple of rtd in the process,apart from they guy mentioned,my wife and myself nobody else was drinking,all they wanted was to play the pokies.

To get an idea of the pissy odds against the machine paying out see the totals next time a machine needs attention,you get a good overvue of the microscopic odds to win,i.e total cash taken maybe $25000,payout column could be $8-10000.

[Drum]

I'm not one for the pokies, but I've had a hell of a lot of fun in Casinos - blackjack, craps, roulette and two-up.

I compare the adrenalin rush to that achieved by riding.

[sAsLEX]

This shit is far too heavy for a Fri afternoon.

A more fitting discussion would be what gets you pissed quicker? Beer or wine?

I think mixing spirits, beer and wine is the best option......... but wait till the hangover!


But the point Hitcher raises about how it affects those that can least afford always worries me. You see the queues at the TAB are bigger on a Thursday and a week or two later the queues at the foodbank are larger again. Maybe the dole/dpb/handout should be food tokens etc rather than cash that can be easily spent on frivolous things, or a separate currency for those that dont earn it themselves which cant buy beer and tobacco?

[Big Dave]

I compare the adrenalin rush to that achieved by riding.

You need a better bike.

[rwh]

But the point Hitcher raises about how it affects those that can least afford always worries me. You see the queues at the TAB are bigger on a Thursday and a week or two later the queues at the foodbank are larger again. Maybe the dole/dpb/handout should be food tokens etc rather than cash that can be easily spent on frivolous things, or a separate currency for those that dont earn it themselves which cant buy beer and tobacco?

IMHO it'd be better to ban the gambling (inevitably, that'd be for everybody) than to say that the dole can't be spent on it. It avoids accusations of discrimination, for one thing.

Should that be extended to tobacco? Alcohol? Personally, I don't drink enough (or smoke at all) for this to worry me much - I see them in a similar way to Hitcher's comments on gambling. Neither is a particularly important part of life; they cause more problems than they're worth. Look at all the arguments over the Cold Kiwi's no-BYO rules - I don't give a stuff, except that the row could end up making the event less enjoyable for everybody (one of the reasons I'm unlikely to go).

But restricting what people can spend their dole money on is just too hard - it will sometimes stop people from making sensible purchasing decisions, and those who want to work around it will find a way.

I'd almost be tempted to beef up the Consumer Guarantees Act to make it much harder to sell anything that's crap, too - it's reducing the choices of the purchaser, sure, but a decent appliance can be onsold when it's no longer needed rather than filling up the landfills.

Bit of a rant, but rather than spending another half hour fixing it, I need to get on with something less frivolous than KB ...

Richard

[scumdog]

Went to a conference at Sky City in Auckland last week.

The demographic in the Casino was depressing. Especially at 8am.

I'd like to see Horse Racing, Dog Racing, Lotto, and any other form of corporatised gambling dealt to as well as Pokies.

I agree.
It seems those that can least afford it smoke, gamble and have the flashest things they 'want' by paying Neverending Debt Finance Co. for it.

[Ocean1]

I agree.
It seems those that can least afford it smoke, gamble and have the flashest things the 'want' by paying Neverending Debt Finance Co. for it.

Once upon a time there was a psychologist interested in discovering whether this core behaviour was learned or genetically in-built. He rounded up a bunch of 4 year old kids and took them aside one at a time, sat them at a table and placed a marshmallow on a plate before them.

He told them “I’m just going out of the room for 5 minutes, you can eat the marshmallow now but if you wait until I come back you can have a second one”. 5 minutes is forever for a 4 year old, only about 20% of them waited.

He kept track of these kids through their childhood and in their adolescence asked them what they hoped to be, what they wanted from life. Somewhere in their 30’s he started evaluating how successful they were, both in terms of their early aspirations and by the more normal socially accepted measurements.

There was an almost perfect correlation between the kids who had waited for the second marshmallow and the 20% most successful adults. This in spite of the diverse upbringing, education etc.

There was also, (as you’d suspect) a fairly high correlation between the success the parents had achieved and that of the kids. His report concluded that the experiment demonstrated that successful behaviour (the ability to plan well and work hard) was a strongly genetically conferred trait rather than a culturally learned behaviour.

Now, my question is… evolution don’t leave non-functional traits lying around for no reason. What’s the function of impulsive behaviour.

[Edbear]

Defending pokie machines on the basis that they provide a valuable source of income for communities, is a bit like defending tobacco products on the basis of the bountiful taxation revenues these contribute. Both arguments are facile.

New Zealand has allowed itself to be badgered into accepting pokie machines and casinos on the basis that these are signs of some sort of grown-up society. Bollocks. Pokie machines and casinos are designed to take money off people. That is their sole basis for existance. Both perform this in a manner designed to provide some sort of "excitement" for those being fleeced, in a manner not dissimilar from betting on sporting events or racehorses and dogs.

Gambling takes money away from members of our society who are least able to afford it. For many a big win is their only way out of their current circumstances. Unfortunately the actuarial odds of such an eventuality are stacked heavily against them.

What do we do about it? Start a movement to get them banned. If a couple of whingeing tree-huggers can make enough noise to stop flouride being added to drinking water, surely getting rid of publicly endorsed and regulated gambling shouldn't be too hard (Insert Tui poster here).

Unfortunately I can't bling you again, yet! But you're basically bang on the money, if you'll excuse the expression!

Though you're final comment did need the "Tui" bit, too! Money is the bottom line and the powers that be couldn't care less about the effects on the poor suckers they fleece!

One of the things that put me off smoking is the avarice of the manufacturers. They couldn't care less if you die a horrible, painful death, they just want your money and the more addictive they can make the product to keep you hooked the better! Why else is it that in third world countries where the regulations are less restrictive, they increase the level of Nicotine? Gambling is as addictive as smoking and these people know that very well!

[Str8 Jacket]

Dare I say it... I actually enjoy playing the polkies. BUT I will only play them once and a while and when I do I only take a $10 or $20 in with me and leave when its gone. Ive actually been really lucky and usually the win pays for a great night out. But if I lose it, its not really a biggie...

Its all about self control.

[tri boy]

Gambling been around for a long long time. So has the percentage of people who struggle with it.
Ban it? Why?
Ban lap dances, booze, smokes, cars, bikes, weapons, planes,.........
These can, and do have terrible ramifications on peoples lives, (well, maybe not the lapdance).
It's sad that some people struggle with gambling, but (using Tony Soprano's approach), "whadda ya gunna do"?
Lifes for living.
PS, NZ hasn't got a decent Casino. I would struggle to smile in them also.