Half-a-billion dollar "Treelord" settlement

[ManDownUnder]

Sorry sucka, you didn't sign a contract or treaty guaranteeing you the Moa.

Exactly my point - I didn't sign anything! The british crown did. Bill them!

[Steam]

Exactly my point - I didn't sign anything! The british crown did. Bill them!

Unfortunately when NZ became a proper nation and not just a colony, the NZ Government accepted all the responsibilities and agreements that the British crown previously made regarding NZ.

[avgas]

Unfortunately when NZ became a proper nation and not just a colony, the NZ Government accepted all the responsibilities and agreements that the British crown previously made regarding NZ.

Very true, but it also removed segregation in the community as to race.
There is no such thing as Maori only New Zealand/Aoteroa born.
When you are born here you do not get a Maori birth certificate, there is no Maori law, there is no Maori currency or religion.
All that is left is a few culture groups, and a bank account.
Most likely an overseas one.

[fire eyes]

lots of interesting information coming out in this thread, obviously everyone holds very strong opinions & certainly have every right to express feelings.

My own little brief from the 'little people'

I watched my own family exhaust thier way through the Ngati Ruanui Treaty Settlement, 10 years (next phase of sub-tribe negotiations) of constant research, meetings, court proccedings, and this was to battle Ngati Ruanui itself to halt the negotiation proceedings, because to them (my family) it was unjust, thier mandate came from a Meeting of Chiefs at Manawapou where it was agreed 'no land sold' so to my family the Settlement was a cop out.

I had an opportunity to attend a representitives meeting for Negotiations with my grandfather who rose to object to the Settlement based on the sub-tribe mandate. Its a very humbling experience to watch an educated man with a doctorate and who has taught & lectured all over the world, who was raised by his knowledgeable elders, succomb to grief at the hand of his own people, who had no interest but to privvy the crown in order to line thier own pockets. Yes I am talking about the Maori who had signed for the settlement on behalf of all Ngati Ruanui descendants.

After the settlement? There are some services available now that wernt there before but to my knowledge, many families havent moved any further ahead then where they were before the Settlement. My family itself work hard, continuously educate & upskill themselves as I do. My parents always worked, still do. I don't drink, smoke or do drugs, I dont rely or depend on anyone to take care of me in any aspect. I am very proud to be Maori (& Irish) & acknowledge this in so many ways as I see another
side to my Maori culture many do not, however, dependency on the Crown is killing us & contributing to broken spirits. There is so much that is not working & segregation is one of them and it is showing up in child abuse, alcoholism, drug addictions violence.

Solutions? There is a human aspect that has been lost in all of this, a common appreciation for life & it's wonderment. We have forgotten the fundamentals of our existence and are locked into needless suffering because of the mentality that 'we are owed'. Yes events happened that changed the course of our cultural structures, society & environments and I acknowledge this as well. In my eyes, when we take respnsibility for ourselves and our participation in the course of our own lives only then will any suffering ease and we can move forward. This doesnt just apply to 'Maori' either.

My two little cents worth

[sAsLEX]

Er no.....Maori history dictates that they were good at Honest in your face war.
Hense Pa-s on top of big vacant hills.
Guerrilla came about because they had to be less obvious for bullets.
And the almost 80% of those battles were tribe against tribe!

Ummm were was the bit I was wrong?

Sorry sucka, you didn't sign a contract or treaty guaranteeing you the Moa.

And yet even after their history of fantastic resource management they get special rights for such in our law

There is greater awareness amongst iwi and hapū of the opportunities and processes for their involvement and for the practical expression of kaitiakitanga in sustainable resource management.

there is no Maori law, there is no Maori currency or religion.

Ummm then why do all the Politicians visit their annual religious gathering?

And why are Maori the only section of society that have special representation in the Govt.

[Hinny]

l

My two little cents worth

Well that was certainly value for money.

[Hinny]

I expressed my belief, to a mate, that Maori and Irish people were fairly similar. ( thinking their sociability and love of song.)

He rejoined quick as a flash,

"What do you mean they both had their land stolen off them by the British and they will fight anybody for no reason."

[fire eyes]

and they will also take in a stranger and feed them and give a place to lay thier head should they need shelter ..

[Hinny]

At the risk of being bombarded with the rage of ignorant rednecks who don't know their history, I remind you of these interesting facts, and invite you to consider whether the injustices may not be worth a few billion dollars.

What injustices do you wish us to consider?
The listed 'facts' can probably not be considered injustices without the inflammatory biased accompanying commentary.

One injustice that does not get mentioned often is the reversal of legitimate land sales with land going back to the Maori and without compensation or reparation of the sale consideration to the purchasers.
Oral history puts this at the time of the signing of the treaty. Set aside all land sales for a period leading to the signing.

It has, I would offer, become impossible to 'Know' our history as it appears it is being continually rewritten. The real crock I find is the teaching of this new history in schools.

[Steam]

What injustices do you wish us to consider?
The listed 'facts' can probably not be considered injustices without the inflammatory biased accompanying commentary.

That doesn't dignify a response.

Oh, wait, no, it does;
You are either astoundingly ignorant or your bigotry has blinded you.

[Steam]

Yeah, I've decided it must be the latter.

[Ocean1]

That doesn't dignify a response.

Oh, wait, no, it does;
You are either astoundingly ignorant or your bigotry has blinded you.

Did you ever read further than your school books dude?

He's right. History used to be written by war's winners, that's no longer true.

[Steam]

Aarg!


10 char.

[Sanx]

That doesn't dignify a response.

Oh, wait, no, it does;
You are either astoundingly ignorant or your bigotry has blinded you.

Resorting to insults or accusations of bigotry is usually a pretty good indication of an argument that can no longer be sustained. You might have a different opinion to the majority of those expressed in this thread, but this doesn't make yours any more, or any less valid.

As for the fact that histories are constantly being rewritten: this is the case. My mother, who was at school in Christchurch during the late 40s and early 50s, was taught that the Maori arrived to find NZ populated by the Moriori; a pacifist race who were ill-equipped to repel the invaders and consequently got wiped out. Although that was the story on the Chatham Islands, it was not the case for NZ as a whole.

If 'facts' change this fast, then who knows what's going to be taught in another 50 years time. Though, with the way NZ is going, I'm sure all school-children will be taught that the Maori were a noble advanced race who were the victims of a holocaust-like massacre at the hands of the invading Europeans. Only the brave Chinese and Pacific Islanders stood with their dark brethren in their fight against tyranny. [insert more blatantly false PC twaddle]

[Hinny]

For a quick reality check on the recording of history one only needs to look at the Iraq conflict.
How many versions have we had for the invasion of Iraq?
As in all wars the first casualty is the truth.