Shaun Harris and No entry to MNZ Club

[Clivoris]

Shaun.
I'm confused by this thread. Did you post the survey 4 years ago? Are you proposing the same thing again now? Are you now withdrawing yourself from the MNZ rep role because of the survey 4 years ago? If you are reluctant to get involved with the administration of motorcycling in NZ because competitors will be apathetic, I'd have to say that it is a fair call. The odds of a sudden upsurge of involvement by riders is as slim as it ever has been.
My involvement in motorcycle racing is for purely personal reasons. There is no way I am going to be a threat to a podium, at club level let alone National level. I just want to get as fast as I can on the machine I can afford to run without hurting myself. Along the way I plan on having a hell of a buzz and meet some cool people. So far, my mission is going well.
What I have discovered is that in order to make this happen I have had to become more involved at the committee level of my club. We would like to have a higher profile for our meetings, but I am not convinced about the cost/benefit equation. We don't charge spectators, so wont be making anything at the gate. Would any sponsors drawn to our meetings make $250 worth of difference annually to our competitors? Maybe club racing has to be geared to simply providing a venue for like-minded lunatics to go round and round in the same direction. Unfortunately, this isn't as easy as it was either. Volunteers are getting harder and harder to retain. We can no longer ask people to pay out of their own pocket for the priveledge of driving 2 hours (at least) each way to stand in the rain and make the magic happen. We have to try and cover their costs. Will extra promotion change this?
I would love to see more motorcycle racing on the telly, but as a (slow, but working on it) club level rider what difference would this make to me?
Honest questions.

[Drew]

How does MNZ make coin from you Drew. You pay a licence fee to them (a one off payment) and what else???? MNZ have an Office staff of five, the rest are ALL volunteers.
Your entry fees go to the club organising the event, to pay for running the event (Ambulances, track hire, etc) not to MNZ, and you show me a CLUB that makes vast amounts of money from organising Road Race Events. Most clubs are lucky to even avoid losing money on the road race events they run.
.

Sweet as, I was under the impression that MNZ were larger than that, I apologise.

I dont wanna take this thread off topic, because it's a good one, so if you would like to continue a conversation about clubs making money, and the vast quantity that AMCC are sitting on (I'm told from a former comitee (or what ever you cal them) member), PM me any time.

I would support the idea, and pay the money to get a person to fill the position, after I had seen a clear plan, and a list of achievable goals both long term, and short.

[roadracingoldfart]

Hello Shaun , are you implying that one single person could turn the promotion of bike racing in NZ around without extra resouces (ie; manpower)
as i doubt one person would be able to make a differance without getting the blood pressure issues normally associated with a stressful occupation.
It would be a very stressful job and the hours would be a killer. One person would in my opinion never be able to do justice but thats not to say its not possible to a talented profesional PR person. That type of person would of course demand much more coin than was being mooted here and without the absolute passion for motorcycling in thier own blood like most of "us" have it would simply be a standard "buisness venture" driven failure.

I agree what you propose would be brilliant for the NZ scene but i doubt with our short running series now that many extra meetings could be managed , at least before Hampton Downs is completed as the currant tracks are simply car orientated and wont even confirm distant bookings for motorcycle events no matter what the size until car clubs have got all the good dates and venues sorted.
Booking shurity would have to be achievable as without future booking ability guarentees the possible sponsors would not commit to investing at whats basically a "club based activity".

I would like to see a copy of your original post out Shaun and if needed i would like to combine minds to see what can be sussed out .
I am happy to be proved wrong about anything negative i have said and if need be ill help to prove myself wrong to see motorcycling improve in NZ.

Im doing my small bit with sponsoring Nicky as the rider in our team and helping 4 others to varying degrees throughout the winter series but thats all my budget can manage.

Thanks for the 5 min soap box people.

Cheers Paul.M
Team Shower Buddy .

[k14]

You miss the point son. What Mr Harris is suggesting (and I think a similar idea was floated 4-5 years ago Shaun?) is that there is a professional person, whos FULL TIME JOB is to promote road racing and secure event sponsorship. This A) Puts bums on seats = more gate takings = better TV coverage = better prize money, B) Gets some much needed corporate sponsorhip which will do exactly the same.

This was a fantastic idea when first mentioned years ago and I simply can't believe it never happened. Now we've got a chance to make it happen again.

Who do I write the cheque out to?

Yeah I totally agree. I was watching the coverage of the NZV8's at teretonga on sunday and was thinking "how on earth do they get that many people along to a meet in invercargil?".

Obviously they are doing something right. I wasn't a member when Shaun sent that letter out but I believe that it is the only way forward. MNZ do a good job at the moment but promotion etc isn't their profession, administration of the sport is. Hand the promotion off to a company that does it for a living. I certainly would class that small sum of money an investment for the future of the sport but more importantly (as most racers need to see it) an investment in myself. To be able to tell sponsors that there will be x number of people attending the meetings and highlights on tv one of every round would be invaluable.

[GSVR]

Motorcycle safety package to address $52 million problem

http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/m...illion+problem

Wonder if the Goverment would consider promoting the racing of motorcycles as good for lowering the abysmal crash statistics on the road. Might be a worthwhile investment for them.

or perhaps they blame the rise in racing popularity to be one of the contributing factors and would take active measures to discourage the sport.

Is the objective to get huge crowds to attend race mets then start charging them to cover costs?

[Deano]

WHY I BELIEVE THE RIDERS “NOT” MNZ ARE TO BLAIM

This is a copy of a letter, ( Sent out approx 08-03-2004) that I sent out to ALL MNZ LICENSE holders in 2004

Before my time bro. But I have put a shit load of effort into the Cliff Hanger Hill Climb since getting involved.

During my time with cliff hanger, I have found that MNZ have not been very helpful in fostering the sport.

No blame can be laid on the riders there.

I'm more than happy to do my bit if it will help.

[Hellraiser]

But don't forget there is not only the wage to pay .......

There will also be traveling expences etc etc to be paid by someone.

There's the expence of taking potential corporate sponsers out for meals and other general arse kissing expences.

and i'm sure there's shit loads more expences that i haven't thought of yet.

at the end of the day MCNZ will be lucky to get change out of $500,000

It's time that people started thinking outside the square because the current line of thinking doesn't seem to be working.

[Drew]

It's time that people started thinking outside the square because the current line of thinking doesn't seem to be working.

And round the circle goes.

I think that the sport is only ever gonna get big, if it starts with people giving up there own time to promote it.

I propose this instead, (and if it gets enough support on here I'll take the apropriate steps to do my bit,) how about a group of racers first sit down and discuss thier idias of getting arses in seats, can be done in more than one spot with minutes taken and then distributed to the others. From there an elected group go through the list and pick the best ideas. From there fund raising is done to pay for whatever is needed and there it is, the ball is rolling.

But if only there was a system in place that is meant to do that already...

Half way through typing how I think is the easiest to get this going, I realised it's pretty much what is meant to happen now, so the only thing left to be said...

Spot on Shaun, us as racers are our own worst enemy. I cannot say I've ever know of a meeting of any sort with MNZ on the subject, but I'm sure the info could be found where to best make an appearance and forward ideas.

[PeteJ]

[/QUOTE]
I dont wanna take this thread off topic, because it's a good one, so if you would like to continue a conversation about clubs making money, and the vast quantity that AMCC are sitting on (I'm told from a former comitee (or what ever you cal them) member), PM me any time.
QUOTE]

Actually, rubbish like this should not be rebutted only in a PM. AMCC finances are set out in its accounts to all members each year - it's not some "committee only" secret; and for a club with nearly 80 years' history, it's a credit that it puts its assets on the line every time it runs a major meeting. One meeting a number of years ago was such a financial failure that the clubrooms had to be sold to raise money.

To return to Shaun's thread, yep, if racers want to be publicised, they will have to pay their or someone else's money. Only the best organised, such as yourself, get to have other people's money to use in their racing.

The rest whinge about entry fees (which in NZ are bloody cheap) and do fuck all more to contribute.

Oh, yes: then they whinge about volunteer club members and officials making buckets of money, without bothering to find that a club is lucky to have anything left over at the end of a season. Or MNZ, come to that.

If they got off their ignorant lazy arses and read the financials their clubs and MNZ give them each year, no-one would have to explain it.

Rant not over - can be revived and magnified at any time.

PS I have been involved at club level wirth NZACU/MNZ for over 30 years; paid promoters are not a new idea. In the past, they have been a failed idea, but that is not to say that the idea might not work if tried yet again.

[Drew]

Actually, rubbish like this should not be rebutted only in a PM. AMCC finances are set out in its accounts to all members each year - it's not some "committee only" secret; and for a club with nearly 80 years' history, it's a credit that it puts its assets on the line every time it runs a major meeting. One meeting a number of years ago was such a financial failure that the clubrooms had to be sold to raise money.

To return to Shaun's thread, yep, if racers want to be publicised, they will have to pay their or someone else's money. Only the best organised, such as yourself, get to have other people's money to use in their racing.

The rest whinge about entry fees (which in NZ are bloody cheap) and do fuck all more to contribute.

Oh, yes: then they whinge about volunteer club members and officials making buckets of money, without bothering to find that a club is lucky to have anything left over at the end of a season. Or MNZ, come to that.

If they got off their ignorant lazy arses and read the financials their clubs and MNZ give them each year, no-one would have to explain it.

Rant not over - can be revived and magnified at any time.

PS I have been involved at club level wirth NZACU/MNZ for over 30 years; paid promoters are not a new idea. In the past, they have been a failed idea, but that is not to say that the idea might not work if tried yet again.

Re read both my fuckin posts and then explain where I whinged about anything will ya, I even apologised for my incorrect statements!

I only mentioned the money AMCC have to prove that clubs could make a profit with proper managment.

Why the bullshit smarmy attitude about me not spending my own money, know the arrangment we have do ya? Just like to reiterate this point while you're calling me ignorant...cock! We are exceptionally lucky to be sponsored, do you not think I would like to get as much for them as I get?

So rant away, I'm always keen for a good bitch fight, and you've fucked me off just enough to ensure I'll slam you every chance I get.

It used to be I didn't like people trying to belittle me because of how I would look to others, now it's just insulting that you think you're better than me.

To sum up, eat my excrement and get fucked.

[Burrt Badger]

AMCC make money from their investments to support your racing. The investments are a partnership with NZIGP and is a Serviced Office block, which is part of the clubrooms. They have lost more money on race events than they have made in the last 10 or so years. The only reason they can carry on this way is the wise investments of the club founders and those that have followed in the administration of the club. There is not a lot of money to be made from Road Racing in NZ unless the entry fees are doubled, but if the clubs start making money, the track owners will ramp up the track hire fees. No win situation commonly known as a "Shit Sandwich".
All you have to do is look across the ditch and see Phillip Island. One of the premier road race circuits in the World. Aussie Superbikes dont want to run a round of their nationals there because of the track hire costs. In fact, Aussie Superbike Champs are deeply in the shit, because they cant get sponsors. Christ, Aussie is the current World Road Race Nursery. Need I say any more???

[Shaun]

[QUOTE=Clivoris;1509821]Shaun.
I'm confused by this thread. Did you post the survey 4 years ago? Are you proposing the same thing again now? Are you now withdrawing yourself from the MNZ rep role because of the survey 4 years ago? If you are reluctant to get involved with the administration of motorcycling in NZ because competitors will be apathetic, I'd have to say that it is a fair call.


Hi ya, I did post this out in 2004! I still totally believe this is what we need, look at what has happened with the car racing scene with there own management. I decided to not enter for the MNZ role as I have tried to help the riders in the past, and got NO result/support for my efforts, so rather than become frustrated with the politics of it, it was best for me to stand back, and keep helping riders the way I do now.

[Shaun]

And round the circle goes.

I think that the sport is only ever gonna get big, if it starts with people giving up there own time to promote it.

I propose this instead, (and if it gets enough support on here I'll take the apropriate steps to do my bit,) how about a group of racers first sit down and discuss thier idias of getting arses in seats, can be done in more than one spot with minutes taken and then distributed to the others. From there an elected group go through the list and pick the best ideas. From there fund raising is done to pay for whatever is needed and there it is, the ball is rolling.

But if only there was a system in place that is meant to do that already...

Half way through typing how I think is the easiest to get this going, I realised it's pretty much what is meant to happen now, so the only thing left to be said...

Spot on Shaun, us as racers are our own worst enemy. I cannot say I've ever know of a meeting of any sort with MNZ on the subject, but I'm sure the info could be found where to best make an appearance and forward ideas.

Go hard Drew, make it happen mate, Whitetrash seems to agree with this idea as well, perhaps 2 brains are better than one eh

[Quasievil]

Only a quick scan, but sounds to me like MNZ are a redundant organisation that should be scrapped.

[Shaun]

Only a quick scan, but sounds to me like MNZ are a redundant organisation that should be scrapped.

I have removed my comment about this, as it seems to be causing other people problems