The failure of capitalism (again)

[Headbanger]

Fine by me

[98tls]

no, that's called quitting

that's exactly what they program you to think

Short of moving which will change nothing there's not really a lot one can do.Maybe ignorance is quitting maybe as the saying goes its bliss,if you ignore the baggy panted caps the wrong way round on there heads ones small town NZ is the last stronghold of the NZ past,the place is fucked and i dont envy my children's children living in the place NZ is going to be.Whats that old saying "you cant live in the past"fwiw for me anyway that's exactly where i will live until my days are done.

[davereid]

Originally Posted by davereid
Hmm... capitalisim and free trade are not the same, although they are first cousins.

who said they were the same? not me. I just recognise that one is the tool of the other.

Yes you did. Read your post

Everywhere I checked, the concept of willing buyer, willing seller was working just fine.

you should try walking past your own door, how many 'willing' buyers cough up fuel or food prices? Fuck all. They're forced to pay because ethere's no choice.

Two parts to your post.
1. Food prices. Yep, they are going up. Really easy to explain that. Producers have higher costs.
Higher labour, as the minimum adult wage has gone up.
Higher labour, as employers now need to pay for kiwisaver.
Higher labour as employers now need to pay for 4 weeks annual leave.
2. Fuel prices.
Only the governments cut has gone up. The guy at your local gas station makes $0.04 a litre, same as he did 4 years ago. Fuel companies ARE making record profits. Thats because they are selling record amounts of gas.


willing seller, willing buyer; what a joke!

Huh ? where are the clubs or guns ?

OK, the Socialists were using violence to take money off me so they could give it to their voters.

yawn, which socialists exactly? What violence?

Thats how NZ works you halfwit. Man in a grey suit says give me money. You refuse ? He sends two men in blue suits with clubs. You refuse ? They send 10 men in ninja suits with clubs. Thats theft by violence yet it escapes you.


The violence of starvation, monopoly and wage slavery...............oops! that a capitalist thing!

Except.. that in a capitalist society, you can pack your bags and move elsewhere, where the pay is what you deserve.
Oops you can't ! Gee, its the socialists that enforce border control ! Cant have free trade or cheap labour fuckeing up your utopia !



And the Socialists were taking $1 in direct taxes on my petrol.
And 12.5% GST, and 30% of any profits the people making the petrol, driving the trucks that delivered it, fixing the pumps that put it in my car made.

socialists? you still cling like a dag to propaganda even after the trough has been dragged to the horse.
National has stated it won't take away the taxes either, except the taxes on the weralthy of course.

Yep, National are socialist, just not as socialists as the other idiots.


Actually, free trade appears to have in the last 100 years alone, doubled my life span. Given me personal transport. Given me effective medicine and a means to access it.

rotflmfao! most of medicines real advances were made in state funded universities! capitalists merely profited from them.

Quote one.

Capitalisim ? Well, thats about the control of money.
Its different to free trade.

Generally, capitalisim can't work unless free trade works.

But of course, a canny capitalist likes to control everything. Thats not good.

it's spooky the way you regurgitate the propaganda

Huh ? Are you stoned ? or are you always this stupid ?

But its not common. As fortune would have it, we normaly reserve total control for the socialist.

Yep. He is the one that cant rely on voluntary co-operation.

[idleidolidyll]

Yes, let's kick out capitalism. At best we will all be pulled down to an equal, miserable mediocre level. At worst there will be suffering on a scale seen under the heel of dictators such as Mao and Stalin.

slap! pay attention son! when did i say kick it out? socialism is always part capitalism. the problem is capitalism without the social bit

If I make something, I don't care what in the hell it is I want to be free to sell it to whoever I want. NO ONE is more competent than me, the producer to decide who I sell to.

ahh yes, the definition of 'me,me me me me me me me me me me me me me'

Where are all these "rich elsewhere"?

good grief charlie brown! a few percent of the people of the world own 90% of its wealth. we're rapidly sliding down that scale

It's a food export market that makes money for the country. Nothing wrong with that.

no, it's a food market that makes money for the farmer, less and less for the country

Nonsense. If you don't want to pay the price, don't buy it. I don't see any "traders" forcing you to buy anything.

duh! of course they are! why don't you try living a life without buying stuff

Most of the world is poorer than we are. Free trade is a great equalizer. You are saying that something that drives incomes down here, but helps people elsewhere in the world who struggle to feed, clothe and educate themselves is a bad thing? How self centered...

I see, so for the sake of making a few kiwis wealthy, the rest should allow ourselves to be dragged into slavery...............capitalshits like your way of thinking


That's NOT free trade.

I said markets! duh again!

"Bend over people, put your head between your legs and kiss your arse goodbye, you’ll soon be property if you’re not already."

Maybe it's time you took your own head out of your arse.

after you

[imdying]

Maki and Davereid... and chance you muppets could figure out how the quoting system works... just like everyone else has managed?

/edit: Yes III ain't got is sussed either, but at least he colour codes his.

[idleidolidyll]

No, you can't live in the past 98tls but you can make the future better

i don't subscribe to the "lay back and think of England" theory of society

[scumdog]

Capitalism is failing society, not just here but everywhere. Labour, the centrist party, won’t make it better. National, the right wingers will make it worse.

Bend over people, put your head between your legs and kiss your arse goodbye, you’ll soon be property if you’re not already.

Communism is sooo much better and so much more successful eh?

[idleidolidyll]

Communism is sooo much better and so much more successful eh?

communism?

who the fuck wants communism?

a black or white fallacy, a classic abuse of Aristotelean debate

[imdying]

duh! of course they are! why don't you try living a life without buying stuff

It's only you that makes you a slave... you can grow your own food, you don't need to buy petrol... hell, you don't even need electricity or running water. Other people manage it, you just choose to live a particular lifestyle, one that wouldn't exist without capitalism... unless you think that nice sporting motorcycles would exist without it?

[riffer]

You know dude, you start off making a bit of sense (albeit tinged with bias that most of us generally see through) but you really lose me when you start slagging off your debating opponents and the argument generally disintegrates after that.

I'm sure you've got some stuff here that's worthy of debate. If you tone the abuse down a bit we could have a really good discussion.

[imdying]

wrong, i just don't give a damn

i'll post my way, you post yours

You do give a damn, otherwise you wouldn't go out of you way to do it. The others, they're just lazy (or perhaps retarded, but I'd like to think lazy, it's nicer). A forum only exists for communication, anything that reduces the forums effectiveness in that roll is a little retarded.

[scumdog]

communism?

who the fuck wants communism?

a black or white fallacy, a classic abuse of Aristotelean debate

Make up your mind: Capitalism or Communism, which way d'ya lean?

Can't be buggered reading the whole post, this sort of clap-trap is dead boring...

[idleidolidyll]

and there it is again, propaganda disguised as wisdom

almost another black or white fallacy

[Headbanger]

Short of moving which will change nothing there's not really a lot one can do.Maybe ignorance is quitting maybe as the saying goes its bliss,if you ignore the baggy panted caps the wrong way round on there heads ones small town NZ is the last stronghold of the NZ past,the place is fucked and i dont envy my children's children living in the place NZ is going to be.Whats that old saying "you cant live in the past"fwiw for me anyway that's exactly where i will live until my days are done.

What past are you looking at?

70 years ago (one mans lifespan) the world was at war, Genocide was the order of the day, Everything was scarce. Life was hard. People died for things that wouldn't even ruin your week in this age.

Before that we have the depression, Before that another world war, Not to long before that we had wars over local lands, People died just trying to grow enough food to live.

Before that?

In the good old days you lived hard, and died young. More often then not most of your children died.

Sounds awesome.

[idleidolidyll]

Make up your mind: Capitalism or Communism, which way d'ya lean?

exactly! a Black or White fallacy offered as argument, the old false dilemma.

You don't even see it do ya?

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/eitheror.html