Millie Elder in court on P supply charges

[discotex]

Chuck the friggen book at her, make a real example of her! Wont change a thing mind you.

WTF?

Why spend our tax dollars jailing someone if it's going to do nothing to solve the problem?

How about sending addicts to treatment instead of cutting off any hope of rejoining society with a criminal record? Same cost as jail yet gets results.

You're all forgetting P addicts are your friends and your family that make the simple mistake of underestimating their ability to control the drug. It's not like when they were 5 they decided to become the scum of the earth instead of a fireman.

Most addicts were raped, beaten or sexually abused as children and substance abuse is self treatment. How about we treat those offenders as the scum and get their victims the right help before they stumble upon drugs that make them feel better?

With a little help from the media it's all to easy to forget that alcohol still causes more crime, death and destruction than all of the other drugs put together.

[Patrick]

oh yeah?
throw em all in jail, that will solve ya problems!

people got to take responsibility for their own lives, that includes what your body ingests.

getting tough will get you nowhere

Make prison a shit hole no one wants to go to... like that guy with the tent prison in the Arazona desert, with the pink clothed prisoner chain gangs...

Crap food, crap lodgings, crap work (ie: hard, hard work...)

At the moment, its better than most homes, three square meals a day, free gym membership, free medical and dental, free "steps to freedom" money when they get out, no bills, no grocery costs, no insurance worries, nothing... feck...

Sounds more like a reward for bad behaviour. At the moment, sure beats working hard to make ends meet, dunnit?????

[Patrick]

WTF?

Why spend our tax dollars jailing someone if it's going to do nothing to solve the problem?

How about sending addicts to treatment instead of cutting off any hope of rejoining society with a criminal record? Same cost as jail yet gets results.

You're all forgetting ....

Sorry disco... YOU forget - they did that.... She went to rehab, breached her bail and still got off lightly....

Time for hardball...... or hard time.....

[carver]

WTF?

Why spend our tax dollars jailing someone if it's going to do nothing to solve the problem?

How about sending addicts to treatment instead of cutting off any hope of rejoining society with a criminal record? Same cost as jail yet gets results.

You're all forgetting P addicts are your friends and your family that make the simple mistake of underestimating their ability to control the drug. It's not like when they were 5 they decided to become the scum of the earth instead of a fireman.

Most addicts were raped, beaten or sexually abused as children and substance abuse is self treatment. How about we treat those offenders as the scum and get their victims the right help before they stumble upon drugs that make them feel better?

With a little help from the media it's all to easy to forget that alcohol still causes more crime, death and destruction than all of the other drugs put together.

i almost totally agree, just not with the "what to do with the tax money" part.

tax is theft.

it is a natural human instinct to see it as "us VS then"

the boy racers/P addicts/police/maori/mormon few are out to get us

lets fight back hard....
and so we loose perspective of what we really are.....
imperfect humans

[Shaun]

So here we have a pretty, rich white girl selling P.

IMHO - she's no better than the scum making the shit.

I believe that we need to get HARD AS FUCK on people like this - start punishing the sellers, REALLY HARD so that people are scared as fuck to sell it.

Try and dry up the market - make people so scared to be caught with it that they are not willing to take the chance. Less sellers on the streets and in our neighbourhoods = less drugs (my overly simplified view Im sure - but hey its an idea)

So - What do you all believe is an appropriate sentence for sellers of "P" - and do you think this girl will get it - because "Daddy has money"

P dealers, a $1-25 piece of lead between the eyes should be the go

[carver]

Make prison a shit hole no one wants to go to... like that guy with the tent prison in the Arazona desert, with the pink clothed prisoner chain gangs...

Crap food, crap lodgings, crap work (ie: hard, hard work...)

At the moment, its better than most homes, three square meals a day, free gym membership, free medical and dental, free "steps to freedom" money when they get out, no bills, no grocery costs, no insurance worries, nothing... feck...

Sounds more like a reward for bad behaviour. At the moment, sure beats working hard to make ends meet, dunnit?????

i agree with the m,ake prison less flash, but as many crims have said to me

prison?thats university for criminals!

[carver]

P dealers, a $1-25 piece of lead between the eyes should be the go

at $750-1100/gram i doubt it

drug dealers are people too.

[Patrick]

i agree with the m,ake prison less flash, but as many crims have said to me

prison?thats university for criminals!

True... but that is because they have too much spare time on their hands. Keep em busy...breaking rocks etc etc, knacker them out so they are too stuffed to even talk when they finish....

[carver]

True... but that is because they have too much spare time on their hands. Keep em busy...breaking rocks etc etc, knacker them out so they are too stuffed to even talk when they finish....

Drugs aint a crime.

Theft is a crime
Murder is a crime
Assault is a crime

all of which are caused by making substances illegal

[Littleman]

[QUOTE=carver;drug dealers are people too.[/QUOTE]

Brilliant. Best laugh I've had all week.

[Her_C4]

It's news cos she played the 'innocent victim' card and now appears to be anything but. She's disrespected her parents big time.

Yep absolutely - and obviously has no respect for herself etiher.

Which is exactly as she is behaving .. did you notice that neither of her parents were there this time ... she should receive sentance like any other person .. do the crime do that time!

In similar situation - neither would I. Its called 'tough love' .. By withdrawing front line support they are (IMO and without all the facts!) indicating that they have done all they can via the love and support route and its time she stood on her own and dealt with the repercussions of her actions. If this is the case good on them - its a bloody hard thing to do.

She has consistently pleaded that she is innocent and has consistently has been offered help, rehab etc etc and consistently she has made the wrong choices, knowing what the resultant outcome will be.

Sorry disco... YOU forget - they did that.... She went to rehab, breached her bail and still got off lightly....

Time for hardball...... or hard time.....

Yep time to stop playing the poor wee rich girl and HTFU. This should come as no suprise to those that have worked with addicts.

[discotex]

Make prison a shit hole no one wants to go to... like that guy with the tent prison in the Arazona desert, with the pink clothed prisoner chain gangs...

You mean copy the US justice system and War on Drugs? Sure works for them.

Sorry disco... YOU forget - they did that.... She went to rehab, breached her bail and still got off lightly....

Time for hardball...... or hard time.....

I wasn't talking about Millie in particular. More the attitude that P users should be locked up on sight.

If she's committing other real crimes (other than possession of a substance she's addicted to) then sure book her.

Yep time to stop playing the poor wee rich girl and HTFU. This should come as no suprise to those that have worked with addicts.

Generally those who work with addicts expect relapse as part of the process to recovery. I agree she needs to HTFU but cutting her off and dumping her in jail isn't likely to solve the problem.

She tried the voluntary treatment for a month - hardly going to work.

Now it's time she was sentenced to 6 months in rehab. If she comes out and re-offends make it 12. Again, make it 18. Again, make it 24. Soon enough she'll get the message.

Do that with jail time and she'll give up on any hope for a normal life pretty quick.

[James Deuce]

Most addicts were raped, beaten or sexually abused as children and substance abuse is self treatment. How about we treat those offenders as the scum and get their victims the right help before they stumble upon drugs that make them feel better?

If you're trying to make a good point, NEVER make sweeping generalisations like that one up there.

Once you're in this little tart's position you've lost any right to lenient treatment. She's had more chances than she deserved. She didn't just lapse, which is understandable and expected as you pointed out.

She's a dealer. If she were "just" a user I would support your argument 100%. People are generally worth spending time, money, and energy on. Once you start dealing to support your habit your humanity is so far gone that you are no loss to society if you had a nasty accident in transit to prison.

Millie has a small hand in the death of a Police officer. You'll no doubt deny that and to a certain extent you are right in that she didn't pull the trigger. Repeatedly. However she is now part of the supply chain in an illicit industry that ruins lives and gets good people killed. She's not worth it.

[discotex]

If you're trying to make a good point, NEVER make sweeping generalisations like that one up there.

Fair point. Those same people require compassion and treatment over jail time as well.

She's a dealer. If she were "just" a user I would support your argument 100%. People are generally worth spending time, money, and energy on. Once you start dealing to support your habit your humanity is so far gone that you are no loss to society if you had a nasty accident in transit to prison.

So you're prefer she sold her body or stole to support her habit instead? Not saying it's good but there's a huge difference between selling to support a habit and selling to get rich (the gangs on the back of prohibition).

As for her humanity being gone that's total bullshit. Most substance abusers get out eventually. Usually in their mid-20's. About the same time bikers who ride like maniacs slow down. One would assume for the same reasons.

And the hand in the cop's death... You're kidding right?

Anyone else notice the problem got worse after they re-classified P from class B to class A and made it the sexy new gixxer thou of drugs for the risk takers out there?

[inlinefour]

P dealers, a $1-25 piece of lead between the eyes should be the go

I agree, right between the eyes, no need for a prison and the family can pay for the funeral.

On a side note I see that carver is spouting shyte when he clearly has no idea. Once people ingest P they do all sorts of stupid shyte that they would normally not do and the first dose usually has them hooked on the substance for life. Why the fark would society want to make it easier and legal to do??? But then again carver thinks that it should be legal to treat NZ roads as stunt/race tracks, putting everyone else on the roads in danger, maybe he does that while on P?