Ozzy27 F3 Race bike

[Clivoris]

So much of this is over my head, but I'm loving it.

[Ozzy27]

Remove 235 grams from the other side of the crank?

And yeah, I know you want to actually ride it.

Gets more beer.

Yea you could get good primary balance on this cylinder but as this weight would be different from the other cylinders you would get the rocking couple force in the crankshaft which I think would not last too long at 16000 rpm.
I remember Jimmy Steadmans 750 tripple 2 stroke when they got the balance factor wrong the found out on a computer simulation the the out of balance force was around 2 tons. The rider couldn't do more that a few laps before his arm went totally numb. They finished up with a non even crank pin stagger and got the balance vector down to a couple of hundred kgs.

[Ocean1]

Yea you could get good primary balance on this cylinder but as this weight would be different from the other cylinders you would get the rocking couple force in the crankshaft which I think would not last too long at 16000 rpm.
I remember Jimmy Steadmans 750 tripple 2 stroke when they got the balance factor wrong the found out on a computer simulation the the out of balance force was around 2 tons. The rider couldn't do more that a few laps before his arm went totally numb. They finished up with a non even crank pin stagger and got the balance vector down to a couple of hundred kgs.

True. And yes the numbers get big at those sort of revs. Surprises me what some guys get away with when changing pistons on big singles let alone more serious surgery on a 600.

Good luck with it mate, enjoy the season.

[vtec]

Brilliant.

Time to look for cheap 600's with a failed valve or two . Who needs performance mods for club level. Just ride the pants off a stocker. For nationals though, mods would be good.

The way Ozzy B has done it is brilliant and relatively simple from what I can tell. minimal piston air resistance on the second cylinder by removing the valves.

Was there anything involved electronically? or did you just remove the injector and spark plug and lead?

[proudwanker]

new zealand seems to have a lot of poeple who say you cant do this or that wont work. Just look at a few of the "experts" who posted here http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=77299
that said this would not work. Well it works!! It is going to be raced!! The rule book does not need to be rewriten as this is not a "cylinder" in the context of capacity.if anyone wants to fight over it bring it on!! Bring your cheque book and your lawyer because you will have a fight on your hands!! Ask about, i know what i am talking about and i am a doer! Not a talker or an "expert" who sits on a computer 24/7 telling people "how it is".
All you "experts" should spend some time reading something that may teach you something(sae articles etc) instead of hanging around forums trying to out do each other!

hahahaha gotta love the ozzy and his diplomacy

[johnsv650]

has mnz replied to your questions ?

[TonyB]

Yes you could have a crank made without the crank pin but to stop a rocking couple force you would have to have the crank pins spaced at 120 degs. This would also mean new cams, and a redesign of the electronics. All is very possible but Expensive!!
Cheers
Chris

Thanks for the detailed answer Ozzy. So its do-able, but even more difficult and expensive than I thought! I had a reason for asking- the whole concept of this bike is brilliant, to produce a good modern F3 bike relatively cheaply. It seems to me that if there are around 8 extra hp lurking in the engine which are only obtainable by spending LOADS of money, then maybe MNZ should consider making illegal any modifications that remove the balancing piston. That would prevent racers with VERY deep pockets having bikes with approx 10% more power than anyone else can afford.

Just a thought!

[svr]

Thanks for the detailed answer Ozzy. So its do-able, but even more difficult and expensive than I thought! I had a reason for asking- the whole concept of this bike is brilliant, to produce a good modern F3 bike relatively cheaply. It seems to me that if there are around 8 extra hp lurking in the engine which are only obtainable by spending LOADS of money, then maybe MNZ should consider making illegal any modifications that remove the balancing piston. That would prevent racers with VERY deep pockets having bikes with approx 10% more power than anyone else can afford.

Just a thought!

Mate, F3 is a class whereby anyone with VERY deep pockets could blow everyone else out of the water using any one of the available chasis / engine configurations available. The japanese factories used to race F3 bikes that might have beaten NZ F2 bikes back in the day. They were serious - they used to put riders like Doug Polen on them.

[Shaun]

Mate, F3 is a class whereby anyone with VERY deep pockets could blow everyone else out of the water using any one of the available chasis / engine configurations available. The japanese factories used to race F3 bikes that might have beaten NZ F2 bikes back in the day. They were serious - they used to put riders like Doug Polen on them.

Agreed, great eh

The japanese series was very serious for that class, and the bikes were very very fast!

[TonyB]

Mate, F3 is a class whereby anyone with VERY deep pockets could blow everyone else out of the water using any one of the available chasis / engine configurations available. The japanese factories used to race F3 bikes that might have beaten NZ F2 bikes back in the day. They were serious - they used to put riders like Doug Polen on them.

Are you saying that NZ should go the same way? Japan has a population of nearly 130,000,000 and is one of the worlds biggest economies. NZ has a population of a little over 4,000,000 and our economy is a drop in the bucket by comparison. The Japanese can no doubt fill grids with awesome race bikes, here in NZ there might be a couple that can afford to do it in F3.

[svr]

Are you saying that NZ should go the same way? Japan has a population of nearly 130,000,000 and is one of the worlds biggest economies. NZ has a population of a little over 4,000,000 and our economy is a drop in the bucket by comparison. The Japanese can no doubt fill grids with awesome race bikes, here in NZ there might be a couple that can afford to do it in F3.

Of course not! Thats why Ozzies thing appeals - it suits a class that suits local racers.

[TonyB]

Just checking. Looks like we agree after all I think Ozzy's is idea brilliant. I wonder though if the rules shouldn't include something to stop this crank mod from being done, just to make sure it stays economical.

[FROSTY:Me]

Goddarn it I can't get that darn bike outa my head.
Ever since I heard about it I just loved the idea.

[Mishy]

Just checking. Looks like we agree after all I think Ozzy's is idea brilliant. I wonder though if the rules shouldn't include something to stop this crank mod from being done, just to make sure it stays economical.

I totally disagree ! It's a Formula class, so pretty much anything goes - and that's the way it should be. F3 is about the only place where someone with a great ides and the ability to follow with it through can build something different and exciting. I have been intrigued and enthusiastic abiut Chris's Triple since he first mentioned the idea quite some time ago. His 450 will be very economical compared to a monster hotrod SV650, or a Tigcraft, and thats exciting. There are already guys out there spending a lot of money on F3 bikes, and that's just not going to change If anyone wants to push the concept further (within the class rules of course) then GOOD LUCK TO THEM ! Bring it on. If we rule everything out because " It could be too expensive for some people, and what if ..... " them we'll only see the same old stuff turning out year after year. I hope we see more of this sort of thing in the future, and that this only the beginning. It would be such a pity to stifle what creativity is still out there, and in the only class where you can still use it, just for the sake of protecting the unimaginative from the threat of great ideas. If you want everybody to be able to participate at the same level for the same money you are in the wrong sport - simple.

[Cleve]

I totally disagree ! It's a Formula class, so pretty much anything goes - and that's the way it should be. F3 is about the only place where someone with a great ides and the ability to follow with it through can build something different and exciting. I have been intrigued and enthusiastic abiut Chris's Triple since he first mentioned the idea quite some time ago. His 450 will be very economical compared to a monster hotrod SV650, or a Tigcraft, and thats exciting. There are already guys out there spending a lot of money on F3 bikes, and that's just not going to change If anyone wants to push the concept further (within the class rules of course) then GOOD LUCK TO THEM ! Bring it on. If we rule everything out because " It could be too expensive for some people, and what if ..... " them we'll only see the same old stuff turning out year after year. I hope we see more of this sort of thing in the future, and that this only the beginning. It would be such a pity to stifle what creativity is still out there, and in the only class where you can still use it, just for the sake of protecting the unimaginative from the threat of great ideas. If you want everybody to be able to participate at the same level for the same money you are in the wrong sport - simple.

Amen to that. I also think it quite wonderful that we have Mr Shaun Harris attempting a class that is more along the "economical" line. Power to both ideas I say.