Straight-lining corners

**Gassit Girl** · 8th October 2008, 18:18

The neat thing about corners is having to lean! I don't see why anyone would want to cut them and turn the experience into into a straight road. Especially when it puts you on the wrong side of the road and you could meet another "megarider" doing the same thing from the other side!

People have talked about 100% visibility on a corner... I spose that does apply to those 'wide sweeping chicane' type corners where because of the S shape you can see out the other side - but you still don't get much leeway to deal with vehicles popping out of driveways and side roads etc who don't expect to see you on their side of the road when they turn onto it. To me, that isn't 100% vis.

**MarkH** · 8th October 2008, 20:13

Originally Posted by Gassit Girl

People have talked about 100% visibility on a corner... I spose that does apply to those 'wide sweeping chicane' type corners where because of the S shape you can see out the other side - but you still don't get much leeway to deal with vehicles popping out of driveways and side roads etc who don't expect to see you on their side of the road when they turn onto it. To me, that isn't 100% vis.

If there is a driveway that you can't see a car on then it is NOT 100% visibility, therefore you should NOT cut the corner. But there are corners in NZ where there is true 100% vis - for all the rest I prefer to stay on my own side of the centreline.

**rocketman1** · 15th October 2008, 19:18

Hey I know what you are saying but, given all the tangible events that could eventuate to impair your vision when cornering, sunlight in your eyes , dirty visors, green car backing green hedges etc etc... i could go on, you only need one occurrence in 10,000 corners where you don't see the vehicle coming the other ways and your history.. Not worth the effort in my book
I will admit to cutting corners when vision is excellent and you can see forever that there is no cars, ie. more often than not when you are coming down a hill and you have the advantage of a birds I view to see there are no cars about, will i cut a corner, never anywhere else.
I consider my self quite experienced at riding, and I can quickly correct the steering to get out the way of cars, but I dont trust my eyesight and luck

Good luck to you though, you may need it.

**reofix** · 15th October 2008, 19:31

wow... at last a technique that turns twisties into a straight line... if this is "advanced technique" ... just consider me retarded

**Shadows** · 15th October 2008, 19:51

Originally Posted by reofix

wow... at last a technique that turns twisties into a straight line... if this is "advanced technique" ... just consider me retarded

True, that. It takes so long to find a corner down here it would be a crime to waste it.

**Mooch** · 15th October 2008, 21:19

Even though this is an old thread many of us that have done some of Alan Kirks courses 20 or more years back learnt a lot about mental thinking whilst on a bike.

I could probably name about 15 -20 people that have done his courses in the late 1980s that are still riding today.

This cornering technique should not be taken in isolation from his series of courses he ran in the 1980s / 1990s.

In context he also ran a series of courses that took you from the basics of motorcycle handling, through to intermediate road riding skills, also ran combination course bike handling skills that would take your standard road bike on the gravel roads and got you to ride at a competent level on gravel. (One place where I do straight line if conditions permit)

Courses then carried on to advanced road riding and track work with the emphasis on control and learning lean angle. He'd often get you to ride around the track without using brakes, which makes you think about bike position, entry speed, lean angle. At about this point the use of vanishing point & straight lining came into the teaching not before.

More importantly he'd give you feedback on how you were riding based on real experence.

So take Allan's teaching into the proper context and don't judge it by a couple of paragraphs of text. Attend some motorcycle courses and find out for yourselves.

**scracha** · 16th October 2008, 08:36

Cut the farkin corners when the road is clear and to hell with the coppers. Twice the road width = MUCH more cornering speed.

**MarkH** · 16th October 2008, 08:49

Originally Posted by scracha

Cut the farkin corners when the road is clear and to hell with the coppers. Twice the road width = MUCH more cornering speed.

Definitely - as long as you have good visibility through the entire corner and a decent amount beyond, and no hazards exist. If you are 100% sure it is safe then fine, otherwise err on the side of caution and stick to your own side of the road.

**vifferman** · 16th October 2008, 09:03

Originally Posted by Mooch

... learnt a lot about mental thinking whilst on a bike.

Yeah, I've done a bit of mental thinking (because of too many drugs making me mental). Like, "Oh... the traffic's not moving. I could cut up the inside but if that truck moves forward, I could be squashed against the curb. I know - I could take a shortcut around it on the footpath!"
Or: "Yeah, I reckon I can fit between that car and truck..."
And: "Oh - he's seen me; he's pulled into the curb. I can go past safely." (right before he cracked a u-turn).

Careful thinking (or thinking things through more'n once) is probably a better bet than mental thinking.

**OutForADuck** · 16th October 2008, 09:36

As an instructor in the UK we did teach this technique and it was from the Police advanced skills course. BUT... the caveat was like this... use offsiding to make use of the maximum visibility NOT to increase your visibility.

I.e. if you can see that the road is clear, straightline in safety as it is always safer traveling in a striaght line and voiding road edges where possible.

However if you are offsiding in which to increase your visibility by definition you are going onto the other side of the road to see if anything is coming toward you on that side???? Pretty dumb idea I would think and a very good cause of Panic SR's stuffing up what would have been a calculated 10-20% margin.

Personally I think straightlining is a better description of it as it applies most often in a series of corners where you can clearly see a straight and safe line down the middle.

BTW the NZ Police treat crossing the white line unneccessarily and without indicating as careless driving so beware!!!

**scumdog** · 16th October 2008, 13:48

Originally Posted by MarkH

Definitely - as long as you have good visibility through the entire corner and a decent amount beyond, and no hazards exist.

True.
But those that hit objects while cutting corners did so because it seemed to them they had good visibility and no hazards existed - up until point of impact.

Do what you want, it's your life - just be aware it may not go according to plan...

**fatzx10r** · 16th October 2008, 13:51

why would you even want to straight line corner's.... boring

**MarkH** · 16th October 2008, 14:44

Originally Posted by scumdog

True.
But those that hit objects while cutting corners did so because it seemed to them they had good visibility and no hazards existed - up until point of impact.

Do what you want, it's your life - just be aware it may not go according to plan...

Doesn't that also apply when not cutting corners?

Personally I don't bother cutting corners unless I am SURE that it is safe to do so. That usually means a corner that I know, that I have good visibility on and that I KNOW that I have good visibility on. The difference is between: "not being able to see any hazards" and "being able to see that there are no hazards" - if you don't understand the difference between those two things then don't cut corners!