Key does a runner

[Skyryder]

Winnie is a List MP. I presume that means anyone should be prepared to spar with Winnie anywhere in the country?

Point taken but Winstone is campaigning for Tauranga. Key was there to shore up some support for 'his' guy. Bottomline on this is that now that the SFO and the Police have no laid any charges Winstone can come up onto the high ground. The Priveledges Committe was stacked along party lines and Glenns testimony has been questioned as to its accuracy. In short Key has no ammo that's why he did a runner. As I said in an earlier post he would have been better to ignore Winstone with nonchalont indifference and made a media statement at his own time and choosing.


Skyryder

[ManDownUnder]

lines and Glenns testimony has been questioned as to its accuracy. In short Key has no ammo that's why he did a runner.

... and that was the one and only reason?
... you're sure on that?

I'd personally have done the same thing. For much the same stated reason as Key. I had the limelight, some other guy's desperate so comes over to start a fight (and share or take that limelight)... so he can get stuffed. I understand The National Candidate in Tga is basically a sure bet anyway... so why get into a fight when all it's going to do is damage to himself?

Years ago I was taught (by a 2nd or 3rd dan black belt) - the best way to win a fight is by at least 50 meters. Don't mistake prudence for cowardice

[Skyryder]

[QUOTE=Headbanger;1797586]Key should have used the opportunity to shoot the fool down, But not doing so just makes it all a non-event, hardly worth a mention let alone a rant. Having met Winston in the past I would have taken the opportunity to avoid him as well./QUOTE]


That's my point. Key had no ammo to take Winstone on. See my earlier post.


Bottomline on this is that Winstone has not been charged with anything, the Priveleges Committee with the exception of the Maori Party voted on a party bias and I could argue that even they were hedging their bets. Anderton absteined so all in all Winstone has come out of this clean. I'm not saying that he has been entirely honest but that at the end of the day he has broken no laws at least non that we know of.

Skyryder

[Skyryder]

... and that was the one and only reason?
... you're sure on that?

I'd personally have done the same thing. For much the same stated reason as Key. I had the limelight, some other guy's desperate so comes over to start a fight (and share or take that limelight)... so he can get stuffed. I understand The National Candidate in Tga is basically a sure bet anyway... so why get into a fight when all it's going to do is damage to himself?

Years ago I was taught (by a 2nd or 3rd dan black belt) - the best way to win a fight is by at least 50 meters. Don't mistake prudence for cowardice

I don't necessarly dissagree. It could be argued as you have done that Key had nothing to gain by staying. But this was not a fight and that analogy has no bearing on Key running away and that's what he did. It's not the sort of thing I expect from a politician in a election campaign. It shows signs of weakness from someone who is not prepared to stand their ground.


Skyryder

[MisterD]

the Priveleges Committee with the exception of the Maori Party voted on a party bias

Wrong. Russell Norman (Green) voted to censure. In parliament, Jim Anderton couldn't even bear to support Labour and abstained.

[MisterD]

The relevance is that there is a lot of reason for him to make the facts fit. People with an interest in something alway do make the facts fit the crime.

More coincidence! DPF has discovered that our secret taper's flatmate is a Labour/Green flunky.

Perhaps we need a new concept of implausible deniability?

Yes, I know DPF is a Nat supporter and ex-employee of the party. Does this make the electoral roll information incorrent?

[Skyryder]

Wrong. Russell Norman (Green) voted to censure. In parliament, Jim Anderton couldn't even bear to support Labour and abstained.

It's a moot point that you raise but the Greens were sitting in midfield with this as was the Maori Party.

This was before the Greens opted to go with Labour.

[Skyryder]

More coincidence! DPF has discovered that our secret taper's flatmate is a Labour/Green flunky.

Perhaps we need a new concept of implausible deniability?

Yes, I know DPF is a Nat supporter and ex-employee of the party. Does this make the electoral roll information incorrent?

It's still speculation. I see nothing here that proves what Key is saying that Clarke and Labour are behind the taping. If as is reported there is a Green connection why has not Key suggested this too along with his accuastions of Labour.

Skyryder

[MisterD]

It's a moot point that you raise but the Greens were sitting in midfield with this as was the Maori Party.

This was before the Greens opted to go with Labour.

So what you mean is: The only support that Winston had, was from his own party and Labour, who were dependent on him to prop up the government.

No quite the image you were trying to portray?

We still know for a fact that despite railing against secret trusts and big business donations for his entire career, Winston has been selling policy for cash (and helicopter rides) the whole time.

[MisterD]

It's still speculation. I see nothing here that proves what Key is saying that Clarke and Labour are behind the taping. If as is reported there is a Green connection why has not Key suggested this too along with his accuastions of Labour.

The fact that the particular attack ad was scheduled to run on the same night the tape was released is proof enough...this relationship evidence merely confirms the links.

As for the Greens, probably the same reason Labour haven't run attack ads on Rodney.

[Skyryder]

So what you mean is: The only support that Winston had, was from his own party and Labour, who were dependent on him to prop up the government.

No quite the image you were trying to portray?

We still know for a fact that despite railing against secret trusts and big business donations for his entire career, Winston has been selling policy for cash (and helicopter rides) the whole time.

That's exactly my point. The priveledges committee was on party lines Labour for, Nats ACT against, Dunn was commited to National even though he had not come out and said so, the others with the exception of Anderton went with the flow. To be fair I thought Perters he was a done turkey, still might be after Saturday. Although Parliment will be less interesting without him


As for selling policy that's an issue that will most likely cost him his seat and rightly so, but he just has not been caught doing anything illegal. And that is another matter from being shifty and decietfull.


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

The fact that the particular attack ad was scheduled to run on the same night the tape was released is proof enough...this relationship evidence merely confirms the links.

As for the Greens, probably the same reason Labour haven't run attack ads on Rodney.

No it does not. It could mean that taper had information of the night the add was being run or merely a coincidence unlikley yes but possible. This in no way constitutes proof of Labour involvement. It's still speculation based on political bias.

Skyryder

[MisterD]

Dunn was commited to National even though he had not come out and said so,

You can't say that, and on the other hand claim that the Greens were not committed to Labour - please be a teensy bit consistent.

but he just has not been caught doing anything illegal.

He's not been caught doing anything illegal, that the statute of limitations has not expired on.

I agree that Parliament will be a less interesting place without him, but anyone prepared to play the race card in the way he does, shouldn't have a seat there, and especially should not be representing the country as Foreign Minister (of all things). Matthew Hooton is right to say that NZ1st is as close as we have to a Nazi party (this thread was Godwinned already wasn't it?).

[MisterD]

No it does not. It could mean that taper had information of the night the add was being run or merely a coincidence unlikley yes but possible. This in no way constitutes proof of Labour involvement. It's still speculation based on political bias.

So your argument against Labour knowing about the tapes, is that the taper knew about the planned advertising campaign? Riiight, move along, nothing to see here!

[Skyryder]

You can't say that, and on the other hand claim that the Greens were not committed to Labour - please be a teensy bit consistent.



He's not been caught doing anything illegal, that the statute of limitations has not expired on.

I agree that Parliament will be a less interesting place without him, but anyone prepared to play the race card in the way he does, shouldn't have a seat there, and especially should not be representing the country as Foreign Minister (of all things). Matthew Hooton is right to say that NZ1st is as close as we have to a Nazi party (this thread was Godwinned already wasn't it?).

Time to agree to disagree, but with respect to Hootens comments he needs to bone up on some history if he sees any comparison with the National Socialists and New Zealand First.


Skyryder