MotoGP's 250cc replacement class: The technical rules

[gammaguy]

so much for Moto GP being an arena for the cutting edge of development,and racing for racings sake.those days are obviously long gone,after all Crosby walked away from it for those reasons over two decades ago,so the rot set in ,although we had the "glory years"with names such as Gardner,Doohan,Schwantz and Rainey since then.

It is now a thinly disguised ass kissing to the Japanese Big four,and Ducati,(although IMHO the Desmosedici is the only true pioneering cutting edge machine out there,sure its now a road bike but a limited edition one and who wouldnt want to own one.)with the occasional interloper(aprilia,Modenas)thrown in for comedy/novelty value.

Mr Ecclestone has just sold out a little bit at a time,hoping we wont notice.

leave the proddy based stuff to WSBK

lets have innovation,bravery and pure racing again.

Even Valentino would agree with me here:WE NEED THE TWO STROKES

rave over

sedation time

[rsnut]

lostinflyz - I don't see an engine cost mentioned, only a protest sell price to a direct competitor. Many companies have sold units below cost to achieve homolgation before. Also the engine design work is not a direct cost of the engine, it could be just R&D, the cost would only be for the actual bits. That's what I meant by it's a big if for the manufacturers to get in - they would have to carry this R&D cost. Yes, there is re-design to use lower spec. materials but for MotoGp manufacturers they will have a lot of this data.
I do agree though the budgets are big for these teams - to lease an (uncompetitive) 10 year old 250 is > 100k Euro !

Colin Chapman (Lotus F1) had the saying - if the car didn't break on the slow down lap it was over designed.

Time will tell what this class turns into hopefully racing as good as we have seen in 250's in the past.

[CHOPPA]

I cant understand all you guys saying its like supersport racing it should be cutting edge etc etc thats like saying oh the 250gp class is just like saying oh its an rgv250 cup lol

And whats cutting edge about 2 strokes? What good is that technology to us..?

[Shaun P]

I think it will be good when the day comes that we can buy purpose built race bikes for racing as a spin off from development rather than a compromised road/race bike that needs alot of mods. Who really needs 160-200 HP on the road anyway?
With the popularity of track riding I can see it workin

[CHOPPA]

I think it will be good when the day comes that we can buy purpose built race bikes for racing as a spin off from development rather than a compromised road/race bike that needs alot of mods. Who really needs 160-200 HP on the road anyway?
With the popularity of track riding I can see it workin

Yeah for sure, you would think they could make them the same price as a road bike, instead of putting all that money into extra wiring, lights, paint etc they could put decent suspension on, yamaha owns ohlins so it shouldnt be that hard!

[lostinflyz]

lostinflyz - I don't see an engine cost mentioned, only a protest sell price to a direct competitor. Many companies have sold units below cost to achieve homolgation before. Also the engine design work is not a direct cost of the engine, it could be just R&D, the cost would only be for the actual bits. That's what I meant by it's a big if for the manufacturers to get in - they would have to carry this R&D cost. Yes, there is re-design to use lower spec. materials but for MotoGp manufacturers they will have a lot of this data.
I do agree though the budgets are big for these teams - to lease an (uncompetitive) 10 year old 250 is > 100k Euro !

Colin Chapman (Lotus F1) had the saying - if the car didn't break on the slow down lap it was over designed.

Time will tell what this class turns into hopefully racing as good as we have seen in 250's in the past.

yes a manufacturer will come along and build a motor. but there is no incentive to develop said motor once its there. unless someone else does which is aimless cause theres no real advantage to be gained (except maybe at the very end of a season.)

any money spent on building the motor will be instant knowledge given to the opposition. therefore by logic money will be spent on all other areas. i imagine quite specifically alot of money on aero testing (both wind tunnel and cfd) as its still the most under developed region of a motorcycle, in my opinion.

i like colin chapmans quote. a very bright guy he is. however in motogp the extreme engine tuning of old f1 doesn't exist. soo sad. i wouldn't mind seeing someone like stoner or hayden going for a lap on a qualifying engine. pumping out 250+ odd ponies i imagine and would blow on about lap #7. awesome.

[eelracing]

I think it will be good when the day comes that we can buy purpose built race bikes for racing as a spin off from development rather than a compromised road/race bike that needs alot of mods. Who really needs 160-200 HP on the road anyway?
With the popularity of track riding I can see it workin

They used to,TZ 750/700/500/250...oh right im living in the past.

Real (production)race bikes tho.

[roogazza]

They used to,TZ 750/700/500/250...oh right im living in the past.

Real (production)race bikes tho.

Yamaha, must have sold truck loads of TZ 250/350's over the years.....? Gaz.

[slowpoke]

I think it will be good when the day comes that we can buy purpose built race bikes for racing as a spin off from development rather than a compromised road/race bike that needs alot of mods. Who really needs 160-200 HP on the road anyway?
With the popularity of track riding I can see it workin

They already kinda do. Honda produce(d) the SP1 (and maybe SP2) and CBR600RR in "Basic Racer" format. They're fitted with a race exhaust system, race wiring loom and no street gear. A couple have come through on Tard Me.

Of course, if you've got deep pockets you turn to the HRC catalogue and it tells you exactly what to remove, what/where to cut and what to buy/fit to suit WSBK or JSB etc series. Right down to head porting, trimming the cases to fit the slipper clutch etc etc. I've got one of these manuals for a CBR1000RR and it couldn't be much simpler to build an amazing machine....if you can afford it.

Fabien Foret (ex-WSS champion) tested the latest road going CBR600RR and reckoned it was good enough to compete in National level competition's in stock form. Realistically these are already racebikes that we choose to use on the road. But yeah, I know what you mean, something like a cheaper Guzzi MGS-01 would be just the ticket, eh?

Yamaha, must have sold truck loads of TZ 250/350's over the years.....? Gaz.

Performance Bike magazine had an article earlier in the year (or maybe last year?) on the latest TZ250 someone in the UK had bought direct from the factory. I didn't think you could still buy 'em, but there it was. Fuggin' beautiful thing.

[CHOPPA]

[quote=slowpoke;1848934]

Fabien Foret (ex-WSS champion) tested the latest road going CBR600RR and reckoned it was good enough to compete in National level competition's in stock form.
quote]

Fabien Foret would get a good ol spanking if he tried to race that in the australian national supersport class

[Shaun P]

They already kinda do. Honda produce(d) the SP1 (and maybe SP2) and CBR600RR in "Basic Racer" format. They're fitted with a race exhaust system, race wiring loom and no street gear. A couple have come through on Tard Me.

.

interesting didnt know that, be good if you could opt for the race and street version in all road race machines

[CHOPPA]

interesting didnt know that, be good if you could opt for the race and street version in all road race machines

If you live in japan you probably could but there not available anywhere else unless its imported privately, there was a guy that was doing some 2008 R1s last year as basic racers but there werent really all they were is road bikes without lights, we need the equivalent of a MX race bike that can be raced by a pro motocross rider in completely stock form and be competitive

[gammaguy]

I cant understand all you guys saying its like supersport racing it should be cutting edge etc etc thats like saying oh the 250gp class is just like saying oh its an rgv250 cup lol

And whats cutting edge about 2 strokes? What good is that technology to us..?

here we go again-the relevance issue.

the bikes havent always been relevant,it used to be racing for racings sake,although a huge amount of the technology used filtered down to the road.

it wasnt all about making two stroke road bikes,just the best way of getting a race bike to perform.just because they are a two stroke engine that does not make them irrelevant,their motive power is only a small part of the equation.

i suppose Rainey.Lawson,Gardner,Doohan,and so many others were boring to watch because their bikes were not relevant to road bikes?

truth is,like most things,it just political and has nothing to do with the best engine for the job.

[nudemetalz]

With the twin/ triple/ four formula, I can't see anything but fours.
The twin or even the triple slight weight advantage isn't going to make it that competitive, IMO.
They would need to have a bigger capacity (750-2, 675-3) to work.

Aprilia tried it with the RS-Cube triple in MotoGP and didn't really get anywhere (I know that the ECU was mostly to blame but you get the idea).

[steveyb]

http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...peleta-part-i/