NZ road racing in serious trouble

[Clivoris]

I will put in a plug for the set up that Maarty VB has built and plead for more of them.
Yes, takes money to make (but surprising how little if you think outside the box)
Yes, takes time to build and set up and take down. But you are building stuff anyway aren't you? And if you can't afford an extra 30mins at each end of the day then you are messing about.

All good things start with small steps.
Jumping into the deep end is a sure fire way to get drowned rather than to learn to swim.

So think about this: If EVERY single racer stepped their game up by simply setting up a tidy and organised pit area (instead of having shit from arsehole to breakfast flung about the place), hung up a signwritten board or banner showing who they are, what they are riding, who is helping them, stuff like that, wore some nice clean clothing, had a shave, maybe made sure that their bikes are always painted well and CLEAN!!!!!, then suddenly the meeting starts to look like a well oiled and presentable offering. If you have a group of mates who race together, make it a team and paint all the bikes the same colours (and not just black or red!!) and come up with a marketable name, not Shit For Brains Racing or something crap like that.

At the moment we look like a dogs breakfast!

ADMIT IT.
If you think that it is currently OK and that what I have said above is too much to do, then you are part of the problem!
What I suggest costs nothing (except maybe the board and bike painting) but makes a world of difference.

Have a think about that before planning all sorts of They must do this and They must do that and We need someone to do this and that.
Maybe the current structure is not 100% the greatest, but actually it works, but the competitors let it down by not stepping up their game. Anyone who thinks that a new club, a new promoter a new this and new that will change anything if the competitors don't change first is simply dreaming.

Sponsorship and revenues are about marketing and if your offering looks like, tastes like and smells like a dogs breafast then par infra......
But if it is slick and attractive then people will want to be involved. As Clivoris said about the Tier 1 cars, it is the hype. Their racing is a bit pedestrian compared to ours, but their paddock, presentation, hype make us look like we are rolling in the mud.


YOU can make the difference.

Steve

Sound advice Steve. Marty VB is a real good example. Won a trophy for it if I remember correctly. Got me thinking mate.

VMCC has been asking for people to step up and sort this thing for years! The ideas aren't new. But when you only have 2 or 3 core people organising the series (who all have full time jobs) then some other people are needed to set up the 'event' side of things. Working till 2am just to get the actual racing setup and late entries sorted was enough for me to throw in the towel.

When I was secretary I tried getting shops onboard for merchandising and display stands but see how many actually turned up and ran a stand? None. Tried getting people to put out signs the day before "Motorbike racing this way -->" sort of thing, but again real life and real jobs got in the way.

The ideas are there. The clubs have the experience and knowledge with running the racing side of things. If you want to promote an event - make it easier on yourself and rock on up to a club and offer to do it. I'm pretty sure VMCC would jump at the chance. (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...42&postcount=4)

Would we ever.

[Mystic13]

Steveyb and SVS you both make good sense.

Paeroa as an example is run by a promoter with AMCC doing the track stuff.

So to lift the game the promotor needs to ask for and expect a higher standard from the riders as an example is what you're suggesting. Seems reasonable.

Someone mentioned a crowd of 20,000. With most being adults if you figure an average gate of $20 that would be $400,000. I wonder what a rainy day would be.

You would think there would be a bit more trickling down to the riders and marshall's etc.

Formula 1 got it's start under Ecclestone when the riders were not getting paid to turn up, or trophies and money disappeared, and the whole thing was disorganised. Sounds familiar. He set about dealing to drivers being paid, safety, marketing and turning it into an entertaining event and the rest is history.

There is no question that the show can change. And it has to change.

[GIXser]

par infra[/I]......
But if it is slick and attractive then people will want to be involved. As Clivoris said about the Tier 1 cars, it is the hype. Their racing is a bit pedestrian compared to ours, but their paddock, presentation, hype make us look like we are rolling in the mud.



YOU can make the difference.

Steve

Very very well said ..... so where to from now,,, how do we get people to listen??

[steveyb]

Very very well said ..... so where to from now,,, how do we get people to listen??

Maybe it might take a few concerned individuals to just wander around the paddock and chat with riders and teams and ask, cajole them to step up?

Starts at home though. Moto Academy NZ certainly needs to raise our game.
I had grand plans for an organised garage, but it soon went a bit pearshaped when everyone got their stuff in there. Will need to devise better systems.

Having said all of that, trying to turn the pigs ears of garages (oops I mean animal stalls) we tend to have (at Manfeild, pitlane garages aside), funny cage things (at Ruapuna), patch of grass (Levels, Teretonga) and leaky covered space or patch of mud (Pukekohe) into silk purses really takes some imagination.
But it can be done, at least the first steps can be done.
Another step is to not park vehicles in front of garages so that spectators and sponsors can actually see your bikes and teams and move around.
Unload then move your vehicle to a parking space. Much easier to get in and out of the garage space too.

I am spending plenty of 2c worth here ay? Call me anal steve, whatever.
Just have a think, that is all I ask.

Steve

[KS34]

Maybe it might take a few concerned individuals
I am spending plenty of 2c worth here ay? Call me anal steve, whatever.
Just have a think, that is all I ask.

Steve

Thats what happens when you drink too many cups of tea!

Very good points, I'm going to help the Vic club this year and one thing I would like to see is an information day/night before the first round and I know it is late and I know not all could get there but I think the whole bike/team presentation thing could be discussed and explained there. (When I started racing I know it would have come in very handy for me) Bring up things like flags, racing etiquette, consequences of stupidity etc etc...
I think branding the series in a very 'cool' way would also help and include things like t-shirts/caps into the series so the competitors take ownership and are proud of the series gives visabilty/exposure and builds brand strength eg an asset. I agree tidy your own corner first.

[sinfull]

Very very well said ..... so where to from now,,, how do we get people to listen??

Make fuckin noise !!! wanna Hear me scream !

[Clivoris]

Very very well said ..... so where to from now,,, how do we get people to listen??

I visited Q8 Oils today and talked about some of this stuff. They are going to sort out some of their promotional material that I can dress up my pit area with and are keen to explore ideas like a discount on product to those who make purcahases direct and mention my illustrious career. They will deliver nationwide.
I will be talking to roadracingoldfart as I am now on the periphery of team showerbuddy and see what this will actually look like through the Actrix Winter Series. What can we do as a team? Through this connection I will also be sponsored by Dunlop Tyres so there is another sponsor to promote.
To this end I will see if I can organise a poster-sized card of myself on the bike with acknowledgement of the sponsors, that can dress up the pits. I don't receive cash sponsorship so this will come out of my pocket.
I will work on keeping my pit area tidier on race day and engage more with members of the public who wander by.
Crazefox is in the process of repairing and repainting my fairings, so my bike will be looking presentable. If this thread had started 2 weeks ago I might have had the sense to think about team colours He gives a great deal, but this too comes out of my own pocket.
I will race the national round at manfield next year if all the ducks line up.
I will create a proper racing CV and attempt to get some cash sponsorship, some of which I will use for promotional purposes.
I will bring the issues raised in this thread and others, to the VMCC committee and see if there is more that we can do. As has already been said though, it will work better if we have more people to do some of the unglamorous donkey-work.
And finally, with an eye toward the future, I have built a podium replica at home and will practice standing on it without scratching my balls.

[ajturbo]

i used to go to the castrol 6hr races

VERY boring racing.. apart from the start...

BUT watching what was going on in the "pit's" ( refueling, new wheels, brakes etc) made it seam worth the money to get there....

i would pay more to race IF that went towards supporting what shaun has presented back in 04....

[malcy25]

Until AMCC comes out of hibernation or VMCC moves into their patch & runs a series ( N.I. Championship ??) that includes races at Taupo & Hampton

Trev - this is not aimed at you - rather it provided a good wider context for the wider subject. I just used your quote to open it out!! Though as an aside given the series of annual activities (something like 8 events at Puke this year, more at the buckets, Ellerslie Christmas parade, ongoing rider training, open every Thursday night in their own club rooms, videos, quiz evenings, inter club bbq's, involvement with Paeroa at an operational level) I'm a little lost by the "hibernation" comment.

Anyway, for wider amusement, introspection, whatever, here's some thoughts to think about:

Oxfords definition of "club" is (apart from those in relation things for hitting other things is " association of persons meeting periodically for shared activity"

I think many people see themselves divorced from the orgainsations they actually belong too. ie the AMCC, VMCC, Upper frankton CB500 cross dressers owners group, whatever. Ie there is an us and them mentality, with the expectation that the club "delivers to me" the stuff I want, but they don't actually see themslves as being part of it or making some of it happen. The strong clubs are the ones that the members have this shared mindset.

Essentially the riders ARE the club. It's not someone else, it's not an organisation or business I just source a product from (like say MOBIL). The key two words in the description above is "shared activity"

The club is not the committee members, IT IS THE WHOLE MEMBERSHIP. As has been previously stated here in this topic and others by various posters (Clivoris, SVS, PeteJ, Whitetrash are some I can think of) the clubs are usually hurting for man power to do this stuff. I guess you get out what you put in?

I see many ideas expoused here, good and bad. But you talk closely to many club officials they have these ideas thrown at them all the time (and about every 5 years, the all come around again) usually as "feeback" but essentially "opinion". But it all boils down in many cases to talk only.

The way forward? Opinion and feedback is all well and good, but it actually needs to translate into 2 other things to make any changes long term:
1) Bring a solution Ie xyz is the problem, but if we do it this way, the problem won't exist because abc will happen
2) bring man power to make it happen. Most of this stuff all takes time, epecially the promotional side. It also costs an awful lot of money. If you read AMCN and in particular Ken Wootton's monthly column he has been hammering away about organisation vs promotion. Some clubs are very good at orgainsing and running a meeting. They may not be promoting it however. I guess the difference is resource available. Financial or human.

The existing resource is always running out as people come and go from the committees that actually make stuff like race meetings happen. They don't get paid and they try to have a life also. Who will be stepping up when they go? Many of them feel bound to stay because so few people actually generally get involved. The poor suckers there are usually trapped, it's not that they won't let go, it's who is there to hand the reigns to? Many club Annual AGM's barely make a quorum, let alone have people fighting for a position at the "big table".

Remember they then have to answer to the same members I talk about above who have the us and them mentality as to why they lost $10,000 running a race meeting and get caned for it when the membership fees or whatver go up because the club can no longer afford to subsidise the operational costs and come and go requirements from accumulated funds.

Hampton: hmmm, I see many people advising cost being an issue to attending race meetings. Hamtpon hire costs I believe will be rather more expensive than the existing circuits which will only make the racing more expensive again, plus the number of people to run an event there is considerably larger also (again more cost in terms of "koha", lunches etc). How many clubs would be able to afford to run there regularly if their club series event w sthe price of the Ntionals are now? How much will the Nationals be if run there? It may be a great place when finished and I'm really looking forward to having a play there like everyone else, but at what $ cost?

Other quotes This one Mystic 13: "I notice on the list of motorcycle websites over at MNZ there is no AMCC. So what's going on between the two?"

There are 80-90 afiliated clubs in NZ. The list of links to the clubs is approx 15 long. There must be about 65 that are missing.

Problem? None I'd say. Just one of ther overworked, unpaid volunteers from the AMCC probably doesn't know it's not up or if they do, they have more urgent things they have to deal with like running a club and creating a national round, running a club series, multiple training days, Paeroa etc that they do every year for the members.

Maybe they have asked and MNZ haven't done it (waiting for the next set of work in that area of the website?)- who knows? Is it really an issue? Is there any inference you are alluding to??

[Wingnut]

Can this problem be broken down into a simplistic form?

What is the real problem?
1.Lack of competitors
2.Lack on Sponsors
3.Lack of spectators

Am I on the right track here?

After going to watch a Nationals round this year I tend to agree with you. If you spend big $$ on advertising/promoting it is only gonna be a one off attendace from Joe Public if there is a quarter full grid. Whos gonna go back if the entertainment isn't all its cracked up to be.

Combine a North Island and South Island Championship in each grade to be run in conjunction with the National events to ensure there is a larger number of competitors to enhance the entertainment factor perhaps? I could afford to do all the south island events but to get up north is out of my budget and I am sure there is others in the same boat. I have suggested t his in another thread somewhere too.

Many racers = increased entertainment = increased spectator attendace = increased sponser attention = increased finances = increased exposure = more racers = increased entertainment = increased spectator attendace ....and so on and so on.

Just a thought.

[Brian d marge]

I visited Q8 Oils today and talked about some of this stuff. They are going to sort out some of their promotional material that I can dress up my pit area with and are keen to explore ideas like a discount on product to those who make purcahases direct and mention my illustrious career. They will deliver nationwide.I have built a podium replica at home and will practice standing on it without scratching my balls.

Have a look at the ( i dont know what you call it ) but its plastic ..err cardboad ..looks like cardboard but is plastic , Comes in 2m x 1m ( roughly ) sheets or even thin plywood ..see how Ducati do it , staggard so that the front looks nice but behind the facia ,,,emmm messy ( but you cant see that ) ... add a tee ?? stand to the bottom and they become freestanding .

just a thought

Stephen

[Clivoris]

Have a look at the ( i dont know what you call it ) but its plastic ..err cardboad ..looks like cardboard but is plastic , Comes in 2m x 1m ( roughly ) sheets or even thin plywood ..see how Ducati do it , staggard so that the front looks nice but behind the facia ,,,emmm messy ( but you cant see that ) ... add a tee ?? stand to the bottom and they become freestanding .

just a thought

Stephen

Churr. I've seen the plastic stuff that is the same as what the real estate signs are made of. Durable and easy to print on. My ideas aren't as ambitious as those in the pictures. It's all on once I hit F2 though.

[roadracingoldfart]

Maybe it might take a few concerned individuals to just wander around the paddock and chat with riders and teams and ask, cajole them to step up?

Another step is to not park vehicles in front of garages so that spectators and sponsors can actually see your bikes and teams and move around.
Unload then move your vehicle to a parking space. Much easier to get in and out of the garage space too.


Steve

I really agree here Steve. One of the things that stun me is the effort alot of guys and girls go to with bike/pit presentation and yet to see the hard work you have to walk around a bunch of vans and trailers and generators and all sorts of stuff.
Some garages are so crammed full of crap that the bikes are actually outside . Whats with that.??
To see what your pit / bike / sponsors image is like , step away from your garage and take a photo . See what it looks like and ask yourself if the image is just a bit short of good enough.
My dad came to watch me race the year before last before i retired and although he remebered what my bike looked like , he had to wander around all the pits and couldnt find me , a quick call and he zeroed in on me .... reason ,
all the cars (other racers and thier various support cars) were in front of our garage and he couldnt see us. No sponsor profile there aye.

Before it gets out of hand , this is directed at nobody in particular.

Paul.

[lostinflyz]

FFS sake guys. are you going RACING or designing a womans lingerie shop.

nationals meeting i can understand big budget teams having semi organised pits (as most do already) with some form of display but the guys out back twisting their own spanners aint gonna do it, or they will do it at the expense of bike and riders preparation.

if you think the garages make any difference your kidding yourself. Go to the lady wigram meet a ruapuna. or the skope classic, both big meets. The best you get from aussie f5000 teams is a small banner telling u a tiny snippet about the car. the garages are a mess and its bloody awesome. Why??? Cause theres a show going on thats worth a penny. not cause theres a pretty plastic wall or the mechanic cleaned his overalls.

an ugly lady in a nice dress is still and ugly lady.

[Clivoris]

FFS sake guys. are you going RACING or designing a womans lingerie shop.

nationals meeting i can understand big budget teams having semi organised pits (as most do already) with some form of display but the guys out back twisting their own spanners aint gonna do it, or they will do it at the expense of bike and riders preparation.

if you think the garages make any difference your kidding yourself. Go to the lady wigram meet a ruapuna. or the skope classic, both big meets. The best you get from aussie f5000 teams is a small banner telling u a tiny snippet about the car. the garages are a mess and its bloody awesome. Why??? Cause theres a show going on thats worth a penny. not cause theres a pretty plastic wall or the mechanic cleaned his overalls.

an ugly lady in a nice dress is still and ugly lady.

Thanks for the constructive input. How does it harm you if some of us decide to improve the presentation at the track? How does it harm anything?