Labour's $1 billion train set now worthless

[marty]

Not quite right there. The value of the company has dropped siginifantley and the g'ment is a huge share holder.

Shares at the end of 2006 were $3.10 - they are now at $0.79.

With 1.06 Billion shares thats another 2.5 Billion that has been lost (not all the g'ment of course).

But hardly a fantastic investment.

EDIT: And whats worse is that they borrowed the money to spend on this - so not only is it worth 2.5 Billion LESS - we are paying interest on the entire amount. Which is why (in a nutshell) borrowing for the Cullen fund is a bad idea.

i never said it was a fantastic investment. please direct me to a share portfolio that IS at the moment.

with a group-wide yield increase from 08-09 of around 4.5% it is at least keeping it's head above water, unlike just about every other airline in the world.

[vifferman]

... they also bought Air NZ which has just announced a big drop in profits.

That's not really fair, Winston.
ALL airlines are finding it hard at the moment. Air NZ aren't losing money, it's their profits that are down, due to a huge worldwide fall in passenger numbers, due to the economic downturn.
Bailing out Air NZ was actually one of the good things Labour did - I wouldn't have wanted to see them go down the gurgler, or be sold to some overseas airline. Would you?
Their previous financial woes were due to having Gary Toomey at the helm; since Rob Fyfe took over, they've done very well, and it's a well-run company.
Unfortunately ALL airlines around the world are finding it difficult - first there was the huge rise in fuel prices, then the latest banking nonsense.

[MSTRS:Me]

Bailing out Air NZ was actually one of the good things Labour did - I wouldn't have wanted to see them go down the gurgler, or be sold to some overseas airline. Would you?

Why not? Companies live or die on their profitability. Perhaps our geographic location makes a difference, but what other country of 4M has it's own national airline? Isn't pride in the Black Caps, Black Sticks, All Blacks, Tall Blacks and All Whites not enough for you?

[vifferman]

Why not? Companies live or die on their profitability. Perhaps our geographic location makes a difference, but what other country of 4M has it's own national airline? Isn't pride in the Black Caps, Black Sticks, All Blacks, Tall Blacks and All Whites not enough for you?

Well, I guess from a commercial perspective it's fair enough, and at the time I didn't care that much whether they went down the gurgler or not.
But that was before the vifferbabe went to work for Air NZ.

As for the "Black This" and the "White That", I don't have any pride in any of those - don't give a shit. Apart from motorsports, I'm not interested in sports. In any case, not sportspeople are really playing for their country or for altruistic or patriotic reasons; in the final analysis, they're playing for themselves.

[MSTRS:Me]

And many of them for $$$.
I'm just saying that I can't see why having a national airline is necessary.

[oldrider]

That's not really fair, Winston.
ALL airlines are finding it hard at the moment. Air NZ aren't losing money, it's their profits that are down, due to a huge worldwide fall in passenger numbers, due to the economic downturn.
Bailing out Air NZ was actually one of the good things Labour did - I wouldn't have wanted to see them go down the gurgler, or be sold to some overseas airline. Would you?
Their previous financial woes were due to having Gary Toomey at the helm; since Rob Fyfe took over, they've done very well, and it's a well-run company.
Unfortunately ALL airlines around the world are finding it difficult - first there was the huge rise in fuel prices, then the latest banking nonsense.

The only reason that they bailed out Air NZ was to preserve their (the ploliticans) "extravagant" life long perks!

They depend on ANZ for that! Cynical maybe but factual just the same. John.

[vifferman]

The only reason that they bailed out Air NZ was to preserve their (the ploliticans) "extravagant" life long perks!

They depend on ANZ for that! Cynical maybe but factual just the same.

Yeah, and fucking stupid.
I think they're phasing them out now though.

[Winston001]

That's not really fair, Winston.
ALL airlines are finding it hard at the moment......

Bailing out Air NZ was actually one of the good things Labour did - I wouldn't have wanted to see them go down the gurgler, or be sold to some overseas airline. Would you?

Fair comment. Yes all airlines are having trouble. And maybe for a remote country like NZ with a significant tourism industry, having a flag airline is worth it. My thought at the time was a merger with Quantas (a successful airline) whereby Air NZ operated as a subsidiary would have worked.

Our government could have kept one special A share to protect the rights, just as they did with Telecom. Wasn't good for Telecom of course but we've learned from that. Bear in mind that every nation has the soverign right to control their air space. Thus you can only fly into NZ if you are allowed to. It would have been in Quantas interests to keep the NZ govt sweet, plus it would be good for CER and probably the domestic flying Australia/New zealand would have happened automatically.

[Tank]

Bear in mind that every nation has the soverign right to control their air space. Thus you can only fly into NZ if you are allowed to.

Or else we shoot you down with our fighter jets.

Oh hang on Helen got rid of them as well.

edit - well mothballed them - and paid Ernest and young over a million dollars to find a buyer.

[Skyryder]

You really have no understanding at all do you.

I think hospitlfood has a better understanding than you realise.


Skyryder

[MSTRS:Me]

I think hospitlfood has a better understanding than you realise.


Skyryder

Only 40 posts to turn up, eh? You are slipping...
Actually though, you can bow out now that you've made the anticipated appearance...we've got the situation under control

[Tank]

I think hospitlfood has a better understanding than you realise.

Sorry guy - your comments in the political threads of late give me no confidence in your opinions of anyone's level of political or business understanding.



Still - thank God we can have a difference of opinion huh.

[mmm]

[QUOTE=vifferman;1965761].

Their previous financial woes were due to having Gary Toomey at the helm;

Gary Toomey was just a ring-in Ozzie yes man for Salmon Cushings,chairman of Air NZ and the major stakeholder BIL.Cushings paid about 580mill for full control of Ansett without doing proper due diligence,their planes were crap so CASA(the CAA of Aus) grounded the fleet once the deal was done,stitched up well in truely by the Oz govt and News Corp, but not surprising since Cushings spends most of his day sucking on a gin and tonic.
If National was in power when Labour bailed out Air Nz they most prob would have let Singapore Airlines take a majority shareholding,Air NZ would most probably just be a domestic brand and possibly Tasman player today,the long-haul flights taken over by Singapore,how important is it for New Zealanders to see the Koru tail in places like London and Los Angeles?I dont know,thats all a matter of opinion.

[Tank]

how important is it for New Zealanders to see the Koru tail in places like London and Los Angeles?I dont know,thats all a matter of opinion.

Most people I know will fly Singapore airlines over Air New Zealand if the flight is a few hundred dollars cheaper.

If thats the case - I think they would have a hard argument about us spending the 00's of millions for us to get the planes to LA and London simply for them to walk past and get on the Singapore Airlines flight.

[Finn]

Most people I know will fly Singapore airlines over Air New Zealand if the flight is a few hundred dollars cheaper.

I never fly Air NZ. Knowing how dysfunctional and incompetent their business is on the ground, it scares me to think how they keep their planes in the sky.