So we cut costs, but...

[Robert Taylor]

Are those converted figures Brian?
From what I can gather a wage over there is nearly the same, eg if I earn 50k in dollars here, I'd earn 50k in pounds there. Is that somewhere near it?

If so then take away the conversion and things are alot closer..............correct me if I'm wrong, I am quite often.

I'd also say that the average Joe public wouldn't have any idea of bike specs, and only see a racebike once its race fairings are on.
If the racing is close and there's lots of dicing most would walk away feeling happy.
If the whole MotoGp field were out on a one make stock bike I'm sure the racing would be just as good just a bit slower.

Look at Toyota racing series here in NZ, all the cars are the same and the racing is dead boring. More boring than car racing usually is!

[Quasievil]

I think everyone should buy motards, much cheaper

Okay I deserve what I get for that one

[Teambwr47]

Agreed there are difference's....................But comparatively things seem cheaper over there.
Off Ebay a new 600=7000 pnds / 50000=14% of wage
In NZ..............600=$17000 / 80000=21% of wage

Doesn't matter though............its too expensive for me in any case.

Sounds like ya had a decent weekend too mate.........................still waiting for those snaps too

The base cost of the bike compared to the wage is at a very similar level depending on if you look at 80000 or 90000, its the rules that limit the expenditure here. The actual listed RRP prices are cheaper here but there's more scope for deals in a bigger market over there.

The costs of track and race time are certainly more over there.

The pictures mate I'll stick up on facebook for you check out then PM you. Decide on which ones you like and I'll email them.

[FJRider]

However, for how much longer can we afford to run an SBK series with only one race having more than ten bikes on the grid?

How much longer can those running in an SBK series, afford to continue to run in an SBK series... ???

[White trash]

And I bet the same guy who whinged at the $10 fee would have no compuction about handing $10 across a bar.

Are you questioning my priorities Taylor? Why I oughta......

[White trash]

And before the know-it-alls such as Gazza and the like jump in here and start raving on about how scared club racers are of getting their arses kicked and why are there so many running F1 class at VMCC yet sod all @ National level.

Let's have a little look shall we? Near as I can tell, from last years VMCC meetings, there were 6 - 8 elegible Superbikes in the F1 field. Less than the Nationals.

[merv]

But that overlooks that it is usually more expensive to replace an oem muffler than an aftermarket muffler after a crash.

Yeah agreed, but I was just commenting on his "The public go to race meetings to see racers racing race bikes don't they? The way we're heading we'll soon all be racing quiet road bikes with standard exhausts and spec as it left the factory to limit cost. Yes the racing will be there but the interest of the paddock for Joe Public will be long gone" and I was saying it sounded like production racing of old and that it did draw crowds - Castrol 6 hour etc so I don't think the bikes are the issue.

We've discussed it many times before about the competing factors for the discretionary dollar, and with the youth of today motorcycles just aren't doing it like they used to as they have other interests.

Look at Toyota racing series here in NZ, all the cars are the same and the racing is dead boring. More boring than car racing usually is!

Yep one make doesn't stir the emotions like Honda vs Kawasaki vs Yamaha vs Suzuki, vs Triumph vs Ducati etc as the public likes to relate to their own ride and cheer their brand on.

[Robert Taylor]

So MNZ have rules proposed to cut costs and there's quite a few threads on here that have ideas that will also limit costs, however.....

The public go to race meetings to see racers racing race bikes don't they? The way we're heading we'll soon all be racing quiet road bikes with standard exhausts and spec as it left the factory to limit cost. Yes the racing will be there but the interest of the paddock for Joe Public will be long gone. I know as a road rider one of the highlights for me and most of my mates was walking a race paddock to see specced up race bikes. Add in a suggestion from someone a while back that we use proper road bike tyres and well....surely the end is nigh!

The cost of racing here in New Zealand when compared to other countries is cheap, very cheap! Track time here is cheap as are entries, even if people do moan about it. Yes wages here are less but if riders here look at the costs of racing versus wages, NZ still comes out way cheaper than the UK for example.

Example- test day at Pukekohe - $90
test day at Snetterton - $270
test day at Brands Hatch - $400

Entry cost for a club meeting-

NZ circa - $100 for one class
UK - $400 for one class

Cost to build a 600cc bike to front running top spec in UK club and National racing (FIM supersport)- $65000+

NZ top spec 600 - $35000

The rules here in my view, as a relative newcomer to NZ, are fine as they are and kits looms and ECU's which are fitted to most of the front running bikes should stay. The same should apply to aftermarket suspension and exhaust systems as it is surely the basis of a spec for the 'race bike'.

I would argue that you de-value the racing here by going any further than what i consider the current 'superstock' type spec of SP600 and SBK.

At the end of the day motorsport is always costly but in my mind with NZ having the cheapest form of the sport already its a wrong move to try and 'cheapen' the sport any further.

Brian, I know I answer for many in saying that you are most wecome in this country. At least you bring skills, have a culture that fits in and are not sucking the national purse dry. Thank God we now have a Government that is already attacking the welfare mentality.
Having myself lived in England for many years and travelled widely I can state that NZ is indeed still a low cost country, given even comparing in ratio to wage rates etc. What probably distorts our thinking is that a great many of our citizens aspire to own their own homes so are saddled with mortgages. etc. That further impinges on discretionary income such as racing motorcycles.
If you turn up to a road race meeting in the States its 50 greenbacks or more for a suspension tuner to set your sag and clickers. Imagine if I tried to charge $100NZ every time someone asked me to have a look at their bike! So much is done out of goodwill in this country.
As for the rules yes they are basically close to what they should be. Maybe keep the engines stock but allow an aftermarket ECU and exhaust system, dont mess with the rest of the rules.

[AllanB]

I want to see loud bikes at a racetrack.

I took the kids to the speedway a month ago and the sidecars and cars running bike engines were quiet - I commented to Mrs B that I've been on louder group rides on the street!
A dam site quieter than a Saturday morning on Manchester Street when the Harley shop opens

Even the V8's were quieter than the last meeting I went to 10 years ago.

FFS race bikes should make racebike noises!

Homo-tree-huggers and fools who build next to racecourses/airports then complain about the noise to the council are to blame.

[Teambwr47]

I'd also say that the average Joe public wouldn't have any idea of bike specs, and only see a racebike once its race fairings are on.

Have to disagree with that....

At the last few meetings (Paeroa and Puke Nats) I've put the bike outside the awning for much of the day and lots of people have very obviously stopped to look at the bike then pointed out the Ohlins kit, exhaust etc to each other.

Most who go to watch racing will have some knowledge of bikes even if its just makes and models and that's where race bikes have an attraction due to there difference.

Racing is racing whatever we all end up racing but if you took cost cutting to the enth degree and in a few years time everyone was racing on bog standard economical 250 4 strokes on tyres that last 5 meetings..... would i go as a spectator..... no chance.

[Tony.OK]

Look at Toyota racing series here in NZ, all the cars are the same and the racing is dead boring. More boring than car racing usually is!

Wasn't really suggesting a one make series.............just saying Stock racing with close quarter action is just as exicting..........its whats at stake that makes the difference.
SBK is the top level and emotively is exciting
F1 at club level doesn't produce the same emotions does it? But the racing can be just as exciting.

[Tony.OK]

As for the rules yes they are basically close to what they should be. Maybe keep the engines stock but allow an aftermarket ECU and exhaust system, dont mess with the rest of the rules.

Thats what I'd be happy with.........................its what I've got

Racing is racing whatever we all end up racing but if you took cost cutting to the enth degree and in a few years time everyone was racing on bog standard economical 250 4 strokes on tyres that last 5 meetings..... would i go as a spectator..... no chance.

Totally agree mate...............I don't for a minute suggest cutting cost to that degree.
I've spent all my $$ on susp, and would happily recommend to all to do the same. In reality thats the cheap part, its once ya get inside the motor the dollars can get silly. I'd love it if a superstock ( standard engine ) class could be added to run inside the SBK class.

[vtec]

At club level, F2 was more exciting than F1 because of the numbers, and the comparatively more even bikes.

I like the racing as it is. I just can't afford to do it... yet. Will chase more sponsors when I get back from the states for the next season.

A stock 600 series as a feeder would be awesome for the racers though. And I think it would be bloody cool to see how the stockers go against each other.

With regard to replacing OEM mufflers being more expensive. The streetstocks allowed aftermarket mufflers in the event of the OEM one being damaged. Obviously requires self policing unfortunately.

[lostinflyz]

And I bet the same guy who whinged at the $10 fee would have no compuction about handing $10 across a bar.

i was one but there was an argument to the case. it was 15 bucks at timaru and i wondered whether the event was worth it. Considering it i wondered if it may be more beneficial to run a meet on free entry (lower track rental fee - lower entry fees - basic cost cutting) and find alternative revenue sources (i.e. food, merchandise - why are there no nzsbk shirts?)???? its not worth starting again but consider what was being said. also i consider i may have been stingy but that was my situation at the time, but having the pennies to afford it now my opinion hasn't changed.

as for on topic, i agree that bog stock racing aint the way to go. but having said that there just aint the money to have a sizeable enough fields of new superbikes and supersport bikes (not to mention f3) - argue it any which way theres not all that many bikes out there and very few coming along. sponsors are much more demanding and fewer in number, with all the fun and games mr. accountants have made and the demands they make to provide a few pennies. just because it may be cheap compared to other places it doesn't make it right and work. but nor do ideas that are bandaid solutions.

[roogazza]

And before the know-it-alls such as Gazza and the like jump in here and start raving on about how scared club racers are of getting their arses kicked and why are there so many running F1 class at VMCC yet sod all @ National level.

Let's have a little look shall we? Near as I can tell, from last years VMCC meetings, there were 6 - 8 elegible Superbikes in the F1 field. Less than the Nationals.

Nice to see I'm still getting under your skin , and without having to say anything at all !
If you would like to read that particular post again, I mentioned that just maybe, club racers find nationals a bit scary ? (with a question mark !)

I never did, but you ? who knows , you only rode for 5 minutes who could tell ? G.
ps but you're a great gum flapper thats for sure and thats a lot easier than putting in the effort.