F3 rules in one paragraph

[lostinflyz]

Why exclude 250GP bikes?
Modern well built and well ridden F3 bikes are as fast or faster than most if not all 250GP bikes in NZ, even the newer ones.
It boils down to the riders. The best riders in NZ will not be on 250GP bikes, they will search for bigger fish to fry.
Hence, I feel that allowing 250GP bikes into the F3 class will provide a place for them to run and some competition for the front runners and a bit more scope for the class.
Not sure of the logic behind excluding competition based engines.
The build/cost decision rests with the owner/builder.


One difference with current rules is that 250 2T bikes must maintain the outline of the production bike, fairings not open.
Also, 4T bikes must be of Production-based origin, not open as your suggestion favours.

I feel that F3 being a formula class should be more free to allow more experimentation. It seems to be very much being pushed towards another Production class in NZ. If we are not careful the rule creep will provide nothing but production classes. This would not be the end of the world but would be a shame in my opinion.

Steve

PS: F3 rules were modified in 2006(???) to specifically include the SV and ER engines/bikes to supercde the original 2 cylinder rules.

ummm dunno bout in the north island but i know down here that most the kids on 125's beat nigh on (if not all) the f3 field so 250gp bikes is a bit of a stretch. 85ish hp on a hundredish kg bike just aint fair. and while they arent on them now some will be if they were allowed in f3 cause they would dominate.

They kinda go beyond the specs of f3 (even the best) and thier inclusion would kinda make everything else pretty useless. Kinda crap cause they are epic wee machines but just dont fit anywhere.

while i like the idea of it being a formula class full of experimentation, it really needs to be proddy based as there isn't the money to support full race machinery such as the 250's(except 125's).

[Billy]

The current 250GP bikes aren't going anywhere near as fast as they should be or used to though, in reality a top 250GP bike should be close to the 600 class times

Absolutely!!! Sadanora Hikita,Pan Pacific rd 3 Manfeild 1991 qualified in the mid 1.09s and raced all day comfortably in the low 10s.At the same meeting 7 other riders including or own Shaun Harris were circulating in the low 12s or faster and a number of ridres have been in the 11s since.Notably Dave Cole and Troy ODonoghue

[lostinflyz]

if multicylinder motors need be production based, what the hell does production based mean???

theres nothing in the rules re:heads,valves,pistons,cases,cranks,rods ect.

[GSVR]

Why exclude 250GP bikes?
Modern well built and well ridden F3 bikes are as fast or faster than most if not all 250GP bikes in NZ, even the newer ones.
It boils down to the riders. The best riders in NZ will not be on 250GP bikes, they will search for bigger fish to fry.
Hence, I feel that allowing 250GP bikes into the F3 class will provide a place for them to run and some competition for the front runners and a bit more scope for the class.
Not sure of the logic behind excluding competition based engines.
The build/cost decision rests with the owner/builder.


One difference with current rules is that 250 2T bikes must maintain the outline of the production bike, fairings not open.
Also, 4T bikes must be of Production-based origin, not open as your suggestion favours.

I feel that F3 being a formula class should be more free to allow more experimentation. It seems to be very much being pushed towards another Production class in NZ. If we are not careful the rule creep will provide nothing but production classes. This would not be the end of the world but would be a shame in my opinion.

Steve

The logic of not allowing competition based engines is it allows the use of the GP motorcycle frames as long as they are repowered by a production based motor. This keeps the production and experimentation aspect which makes this class so unique and interesting.

When Brent Symes raced his RS125 powered with a CRF450 motor at a Manfeild round of the Nationals it was technically illegal? I realise the Tigcraft is/was technically a production based frame but that isn't that cutting it very fine too.

On that note could you reveal to me where is the rules it specifically states that you cannot use a frame of your own construction or a repowered GP frame?

Very happy with the discussion taking place lots of good information being posted.

[Shaun]

Absolutely!!! Sadanora Hikita,Pan Pacific rd 3 Manfeild 1991 qualified in the mid 1.09s and raced all day comfortably in the low 10s.At the same meeting 7 other riders including or own Shaun Harris were circulating in the low 12s or faster and a number of ridres have been in the 11s since.Notably Dave Cole and Troy ODonoghue

I did actually manage a 1-10 lap time at that meeting mate

[GSVR]

if multicylinder motors need be production based, what the hell does production based mean???

theres nothing in the rules re:heads,valves,pistons,cases,cranks,rods ect.

If its not mentioned in the rules you can do what you want! I'd say keep the bit with the engine numbers on it to prove what it originally was. So engine cases must stay.

[Billy]

I did actually manage a 1-10 lap time at that meeting mate

Yeah,I said under 1.12,Was a pity they wouldnt let you ride in the Pan Pacific races,It would have been good too see how fast you and Sadanora would have gone.

[Shaun]

Yeah,I said under 1.12,Was a pity they wouldnt let you ride in the Pan Pacific races,It would have been good too see how fast you and Sadanora would have gone.

That was because I was racing on an Irish Lisence at the time, so I could do some BSB races that year in the UK

Sadanori would have kicked my arse anyway. He was very very good

[roogazza]

The current 250GP bikes aren't going anywhere near as fast as they should be or used to though, in reality a top 250GP bike should be close to the 600 class times

Exactly, +1 there Kicka. The last one to be peddled here was that fella
Bruce Anti !!!! Gaz.

[Dodgy]

Why exclude 250GP bikes?
Modern well built and well ridden F3 bikes are as fast or faster than most if not all 250GP bikes in NZ, even the newer ones.
It boils down to the riders. The best riders in NZ will not be on 250GP bikes, they will search for bigger fish to fry.
Hence, I feel that allowing 250GP bikes into the F3 class will provide a place for them to run and some competition for the front runners and a bit more scope for the class.
Not sure of the logic behind excluding competition based engines.
The build/cost decision rests with the owner/builder.

Huh?? C'mon Steve as you know, when 125GP were allowed in F3 we used to have all sort of fun harrassing the 400 diesels! Historically the 250GP were part of F2 and they seemed to do well.

Really cant see the logic behind letting 250GP into F3 as any well ridden late model 250GP would run away with it! Of course, it has been a while since we have seen a well ridden late model 250GP in NZ...

Hey, where is my damn fairing duct

[svr]

RGV motors fit (just) into TZ chassis' - So you could have say 75hp (reliable) or a dodgy 80hp / 110 odd kilo combo... But the current rules prohibit that, of course.

[cowpoos]

OK its pissing down with rain here...

Tyres - Open
Wheels - Open
Brakes - Open
Frames - Open
Fairings - Open
Suspension -Open
Electrical - Open
Exhaust - Open within Decibel Limitations
Carburation - Open but no turbo or superchargers
Fuel - Pump fuel only
Engines must be from a production roadbike. No competition bike engines (dirt or track). Engine modification free.
- singles - open
- up to 650cc twins or 750cc if air cooled
- 3 or more cylinders 450cc max - (possibly insert an aircooled 600cc limit here)



Note this is just an idea to see how many people see this similar to the way I do. I find the current rules ambiguous and difficult to understand. The rules above would make any bike legal under the current rules still legal.
Can anyone tell me the differences between what I have written and the current rules?

Any comments welcome.

all that stuff is open??? that wouldn't make for the cheap racing you try to advocate??

Bit of a truth

[scracha]

Huh?? C'mon Steve as you know, when 125GP were allowed in F3 we used to have all sort of fun harrassing the 400 diesels! Historically the 250GP were part of F2 and they seemed to do well.

They still normally combine the classes at club level and yes, they do harass the hell out of the 400 diesels. Nothing a block pass and an outstretched elbow doesn't fix though.

[GSVR]

Another dredged thread!

I have never advocated cheap racing across the board just cheap classes that novices can race in.

F3 is an expensive class. ProTwin should have been a cheap class but they didn't get the rules right (my opinion)

Supersport and Superbikes I don't care if they turn it back to F1 and F2 actually (very expensive). But for supersport it would be nice if theres a way to encourage more riders at national level. Oh there is the proposed "Privateers Cup"

[cowpoos]

Another dredged thread!

I have never advocated cheap racing across the board just cheap classes that novices can race in.

F3 is an expensive class. ProTwin should have been a cheap class but they didn't get the rules right (my opinion)

Supersport and Superbikes I don't care if they turn it back to F1 and F2 actually (very expensive). But for supersport it would be nice if theres a way to encourage more riders at national level. Oh there is the proposed "Privateers Cup"

pro twins is dirt cheap though???? so what the hell are you complaining about??