To Fight the Hordes,Singing and Crying

**Jackrat** · 24th February 2004, 13:06

LOL,yeah an then buggered off down south right!!!
I hear he makes a pretty mean water tank that works as well as his round about.Am I right??

**Marmoot** · 24th February 2004, 13:22

Originally Posted by Zed[b

If there are any Asian KiwiBikers on this forum maybe you could confirm whether these things are so or not? (I'm sure you'll confirm the part about being awesome bikers[/b]

Aye m8, I'm a f**ken Asian
But don't ask me to start with Maori drivers tho....

**Kwaka-Kid** · 24th February 2004, 15:20

as a generalisation i always thought maori and PI drivers were good, they make the best truck drivers as apparently they can drive for longer or something more relaxed and not angry and tense. I just remember hearing something like that, never had a problem with em, oh apart from the PI that i swear purposely swirved into me when i was overtaking him. but yeh

**Motoracer** · 24th February 2004, 15:57

The only reason of my objection to the original post was because of this grouping of people according to their race and then putting a label of "bad driver" accordingly.

This causes "friendly fire" amongst those who are competent vehicles operators regardless of their race. It doesn't matter if they are Asian, Indian, PI, Maori, European origin or other, a good vehicle operator is a good vehicle operator and a crapy one is a crapy one.

Technically we could generalise and say that certain group or race of people are crapy drivers but when races are concerned, such genrellisations usually falls dangerously close to or is under what is considered as racist comments.

And there is nothing nice about racist comments.

**Lou Girardin** · 25th February 2004, 06:07

Originally Posted by Motoracer

Technically we could generalise and say that certain group or race of people are crapy drivers but when races are concerned, such genrellisations usually falls dangerously close to or is under what is considered as racist comments.

And there is nothing nice about racist comments.

Unfortunately, in this PC age, even in the presence of firm evidence we're not supposed to comment on the traits of other races for fear of being branded racist. If you want to find out about real racism, study the integrationist movement in the US south in the 60's. Or Apartheidt. Or Germany's persecution of the Jews.
Rubbishing Asian drivers doesn't quite compare somehow.
Lou

**Motoracer** · 25th February 2004, 09:28

Originally Posted by Lou Girardin

Unfortunately, in this PC age, even in the presence of firm evidence we're not supposed to comment on the traits of other races for fear of being branded racist. If you want to find out about real racism, study the integrationist movement in the US south in the 60's. Or Apartheidt. Or Germany's persecution of the Jews.
Rubbishing Asian drivers doesn't quite compare somehow.
Lou

All very true except what you say is "real racism" is now history (almost), and the level of tolarence has now come down much further than before. It can be redicules some times these days as some people just use it as an excuse for their own benifit.

In this case, the only thing you would really have to add to your statement is "MOST Asian or Indian (or what ever appropriate race) drivers in New Zealand are not very good drivers" then no one would really raise an eyebrow. Where as if you were to say "Asian or indian etc etc are crap drivers" then you would certainly be getting attention of the wrong kind.

Now both of the above statements are generalisations however one is talking about a group of crapy drivers and the other is talking about a whole race of crapy drivers. Do you know what mean?

**Hitcher** · 25th February 2004, 09:41

There are a couple of hard-wired human attributes at play here:

1. We like to generalise -- it makes life so much simpler...
2. We like to seize on readily discernable differences between "them" and "us" as a way of making us feel better about ourselves -- short people, fat people, bald people, black/yellow/pink/brown/khaki people, bible bangers, wogs, teetotallers, boy racers, scooter owners, the intolerant, GE freaks, dog owners, Pajero owners, Serb taxi drivers, the Gummint and Australians.

**James Deuce** · 25th February 2004, 09:43

Originally Posted by Hitcher

There are a couple of hard-wired human attributes at play here:

1. We like to generalise -- it makes life so much simpler...
2. We like to seize on readily discernable differences between "them" and "us" as a way of making us feel better about ourselves -- short people, fat people, bald people, black/yellow/pink/brown/khaki people, bible bangers, wogs, teetotallers, boy racers, scooter owners, the intolerant, GE freaks, dog owners, Pajero owners, Serb taxi drivers, the Gummint and Australians.

Thank Goodness you didn't forget to differentiate Australians!

**Oscar** · 25th February 2004, 10:09

Originally Posted by Hitcher

1. We like to generalise -- it makes life so much simpler...

2. We like to seize on readily discernable differences between "them" and "us"

Absolute PC shyte...

The fact is, the difference between "them" (for example Asian drivers, mothers in SUV's) is that "they" fail to give way and appear to want to run me down and "they" appear to be ignorant of the road code.

So don't be so feckin' patronising, these are not generalisations when they come from bitter and repeated experience....

**Hitcher** · 25th February 2004, 10:29

Originally Posted by Oscar

Absolute PC shyte...

The fact is, the difference between "them" (for example Asian drivers, mothers in SUV's) is that "they" fail to give way and appear to want to run me down and "they" appear to be ignorant of the road code.

So don't be so feckin' patronising, these are not generalisations when they come from bitter and repeated experience....

An observed apparent desire for certain types of drivers to want to exterminate bikers is, I would have though, a "readily discernable difference"...

**Oscar** · 25th February 2004, 10:49

Originally Posted by Hitcher

An observed apparent desire for certain types of drivers to want to exterminate bikers is, I would have though, a "readily discernable difference"...

You are talking about the most basic type of human emotion: the "fight or flight" response - i.e. “…that’s the third time this week some Asian bastard has failed to give way on a roundabout, I’d best avoid the pricks…”.

However by attributing it to “generalisation” (nice word for racism?) you appear to be blaming the victim.

It is not my fault immigrants are allowed to drive on international licences for 12 months.
It is not my fault that inadequate drivers are allowed to buy behemoths that are chosen on the basis that they are so big as to allow the driver to feel impervious to danger. This attitude and simple lack of driving ability, when combined with the fact that these SUVs have the laden weight of a Sherman tank, is very dangerous to other road users.

So, to generalise, you can stick yer generalisations up yer arse…

**Jackrat** · 25th February 2004, 12:36

Shit some days being a Dirty White boy Ancestor of a bunch of land grabing
murdering theives ain't so bad after all.Still not not voting fuckin' National but.
And I reckon Maori drivers are the best because I have never had a problem with a Maori person driving a brand new Range rover while Iv'e been riding around Howick or Remuera, and all my cuzy's up north seem VERY laid back for some reason.It must have some thing to do with being unemployed but still able to afford a new HD at the end of summer every couple of years.

Not that I'm genralizing or sterotyping or anything

I mean how could a Maori,Scot,Irish,English,French,Fijian,Kanak,Just another bloody Kiwi possibly be racist anyway,

**Motoracer** · 25th February 2004, 13:11

On a similar note, I nearly bent my forks, totaled the front and nearly became airborne when a station wagon decided to do a Uie in front of me. This happened 10 mins ago. He got the car into the 90 degree position with out signaling of nothing. I anchor the front and back brakes. The back starts sliding around and the dude looks at me like a possume with blinded eyes from my headlihgts. For about a second or two before near impact I nearly had my life flash before me, then suddenly the guy comes to his sences and floors it. I missed him by mear intiches.

Appearance of the driver seemed to be cocasion (he could have been an American or European toruist or local kiwi guy or what ever, who knows). Trusting no one other than the people who you personaly know can be trusted might just be the best policy.