the progressive workers' strike

**Fub@r** · 30th August 2006, 19:06

You have to blame the law makers that allow shelf companies, trusts etc to protect their assets. I have clients that make a new company for every development they enter in to limit liability if anything goes wrong it only takes out the shelf company. So effectively you loose a branch but the tree remains strong so to speak.

Its no different in some respects to what a normal wage earner like my self would do when faced with risk. You will look for any way to minimise that risk to you and your assets would you not?

I agree with you people like Teresa Gatting for example earning millions a year, the company making a billion a year profit whilst the country gets shafted by them, it is pretty disgusting, but if you were the person in Teresa's position would you offer to take a pay cut down to 200k a year?

Besides running a big mutinational company or a country for that matter you are going to end up with a monkey if your paying 200k a year.............just look at the monkeys we have in the Beehive and they are earning 140k to 300k

**Hitcher** · 30th August 2006, 19:16

The first rule of business is to stay in business. What may or may not be "fair" rates of pay is a matter of time and place. Obviously these allegedly "exploitive" employers have no difficulty attracting people prepared to work for the terms and conditions they offer. I think it's called "market forces". If you don't think they're paid enough, take up a collection or tip them. Call me old-fashioned, but I prefer to spend as little on my groceries as I possibly can.

If the objective here is an economic transformation where average wages rise, then we have to grow the whole economy, rather than apply statutory imposts like minimum wage rates, youth rates, pay "equity" (shudders visibly), not-working benefits and the like.

**SwanTiger** · 30th August 2006, 19:16

Originally Posted by Quasievil

Same I worked for a company that had over 100% once, but no doubt like you I left, I feel sorry for the underdog in most situations, no one wants these situations. I would probably pay extra $ to have better wages for all NZrs, but how would that be administered?

Yes, I did leave that particular company, I think that the owner was close to crying when I handed him my resignation.

I don't believe better wages will solve the problem.

It is at heart a style of management that rots away at our society and makes the jump from poor to rich even more of an impossibility.

Then again, this is where I partially agree with your previous post.

"It's the way of the jungle".

**Skyryder** · 30th August 2006, 19:21

Whenever I hear how tuff it is at the top...........I think of the Wine Box affair.

It's pretty tuff at the bottom too. These guys don't have the fancy lawyers, accountants and share/bonus schemes. All they have is a union organiser to go in and bat for them. The rights and wrongs of striking is only relevent to the side of the fence you happen to be on.

Skyryder

**Finn** · 30th August 2006, 19:27

Oh yeah, one last point. Last year my Company paid over $1,000,000 tax (GST, PAYE, ACC, FBT & Provisional tax). While this was a lot less than I should have paid (thanks to my accountant), half of that money would be better off in my staffs pocket than the government throwing it down the shitter.

**Street Gerbil** · 30th August 2006, 19:29

Originally Posted by WINJA

Maybe We Need A Law In This Country Where The Ceo Or General Managers Total Pay Package Cannot Exceed 4 Or 5 Times That Of The Lowest Paid Worker

Sorry, WINJA, but that's exactly the way it was in USSR. Didn't work out quite well, I am afraid.

**SwanTiger** · 30th August 2006, 19:31

Originally Posted by Skyryder

Whenever I hear how tuff it is at the top...........I think of the Wine Box affair.

It's pretty tuff at the bottom too. These guys don't have the fancy lawyers, accountants and share/bonus schemes. All they have is a union organiser to go in and bat for them. The rights and wrongs of striking is only relevent to the side of the fence you happen to be on.

Skyryder

It isn't that hard to quit and find another job.

As an example, I worked for one company at $10 an hour before Tax, never took a holiday or missed a single shift, never asked for a pay rise and worked a lot of over time and always did my best. The boss knew it. I moved and needed more money so I asked for a 50c pay rise. He said that the company didn't have enough. So I quit. One week later and he offered me $12 before Tax.

However the problem is that some people aren't in a situation to risk their only income to get a little pay rise of which they probably deserve.

So I do wonder, if people are prepared to risk a strike, why aren't they prepared to risk moving on to a new opportunity?

**Goblin** · 30th August 2006, 19:34

Originally Posted by Quasievil

True, however how long are they in gas stations for, and if they give up they are screwed to.

It doesn't matter how long they work there...its the fact they cant get work in their chosen proffession because they're 'over qualified' & management dont want to pay them what they're worth cos they're all too fuckin greedy.

Recently I have seen a good friend get absolutely shafted by winz and the cleaning contractors he was MADE to work for. The cleaning co. paid him, on average, 10-15 hours a fortnight less than the hours he actually did. He wouldn't get a payslip for 6 weeks at a time so he couldn't even balance his chequebook. When he finally did get a payslip he went to management to ask where all his other hours went, only to get given the run-around. They would just pass the buck & send him around in circles. They have been doing this to all their staff for years & years! The owner of the cleaning co has his fingers in many pies & knows people in very high place so is untouchable! No wonder the greedy cunts are getting richer by the day & the ones who do the actual work are living on next to nothing! And because he wasnt getting regular payslips to give to winz, they over paid him & now he owes winz. Now this mate wrote out a business plan for a guided tour business & the winz consultant/broker reckoned it was the best biz plan she had even seen in that office. The stuck-up bitch of a manager at winz told the consultant that my mate was too scruffy & she doesnt like bikes so he was declined a grant to start his own bussiness! It was as though she was dishing the money out of her own pocket.
No wonder people go postal!

**Waylander** · 30th August 2006, 19:34

Originally Posted by SwanTiger

So I do wonder, if people are prepared to risk a strike, why aren't they prepared to risk moving on to a new opportunity?

Because they don't have any skills (note I say skills rather than education) that employers would look for.

Only reason I have my current job is because I've been using wood working tools for most of my life. If it were not for that I'de be stocking shelfs at a grocery store or some other meaningless job that I couldn't take any pride in.

**SwanTiger** · 30th August 2006, 19:37

Just to elaborate on the "new opportunity" suggestion.

Perhaps the problem is partly or primarily due to the mentality of the general New Zealand workforce? There is a lot of "I work hard, I need more cheese, but there isn't any, so I'm going to protest as I want more cheese.".

I read this great book called "Who moved my cheese?" the story is short, simple and sweet.

Maybe these strikers are the subject of this story, they're just complaining that their cheese has gone missing or that there isn't enough cheese to go around? While the smarter ones go out and find new plentiful sources of cheese.

**Quasievil** · 30th August 2006, 19:53

Originally Posted by Goblin

It doesn't matter how long they work there...its the fact they cant get work in their chosen proffession because they're 'over qualified' & management dont want to pay them what they're worth cos they're all too fuckin greedy.

I guess some generalisations going on but the generalisations are being take as gospel.
Just a side note , just because you have a dregree or whatever, it doesnt actually mean you are immediately employable in your chosen field, example I have met some graduates who might be academic but are thick as hell I have also met some graduates who have no people skills and in the real world struggle.
So it isnt always education, its attitude and the willingness to learn and to be enthusiastic about your job, that to me is worth alot

**McJim** · 30th August 2006, 20:01

Originally Posted by SwanTiger

Maybe these strikers are the subject of this story, they're just complaining that their cheese has gone missing or that there isn't enough cheese to go around? While the smarter ones go out and find new plentiful sources of cheese.

Yup - the cheese is all in London - Scotland is the same as NZ - shit awful wages. I moved to London and within 2 years was earning triple what I was in Scotland. House prices are only 1 and a half times those in Scotland (and incidentally the housing market here is waaaaay over inflated $500,000 gets you about $190,000 worth of house and land - the estate agents are luvvin' it!)

It's not the cost of food and amenities that's high or that salaries are low it's that the average house is 8 to 9 times the average salary instead of 4 or 5 times average salary which is the norm in other civilised countries.

Hence these people can't live on what they earn. It's impossible. And there are no alternatives for them.

Q. What do PhD graduates in Auckland Say?
A. "Do you want fries with your order sir?"

**WINJA** · 30th August 2006, 20:11

Originally Posted by SwanTiger

It isn't that hard to quit and find another job.

As an example, I worked for one company at $10 an hour before Tax, never took a holiday or missed a single shift, never asked for a pay rise and worked a lot of over time and always did my best. The boss knew it. I moved and needed more money so I asked for a 50c pay rise. He said that the company didn't have enough. So I quit. One week later and he offered me $12 before Tax.

However the problem is that some people aren't in a situation to risk their only income to get a little pay rise of which they probably deserve.

So I do wonder, if people are prepared to risk a strike, why aren't they prepared to risk moving on to a new opportunity?

SO HE DID HAVE ENOUGH MONEY AND WAS JUST TRYING IT ON , WHAT A CUNT, THESE PROGRESIVE PEOPLE ARE UP AGAINST THERE WILL BE SOME FUCKEN BITCH WITH THICK RED FRAMED THICK GLASSES AND A MANS HAIR CUT INVENTING NEW WAYS TO WORK WITH THE CEO TO FUCK THESE WORKERS OVER , DO YOU REALLY THINK YOUR GROCERY BILLS WILL GO UP ANYMORE THEY WONT BECAUSE PROGRESIVE HAVE TO PRICE ACCORDING TO FOODSTUFFS PRICE IT JUST MEANS PROGREIVES ALREADY HUGE PROFIT IS JUST A BIT SMALLER , DONT FORGET THAT PROGRESIVE SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN ABLE TO BUY WOOLWORTHS THE COMERCE SHOULD HAVE STEPED IN TO STOP THE SALE AS PROGRESIVE HAVE NOW MONOPOLISED THE MARKET , FOODTOWN AND WOOLWORTHS WERE ALWAYS FIERCE COMPETITORS ECONOMY OF SCALE SAYS PRICES SHOULDA GONE DOWN BUT CORPORATE GREAD SAYS OTHERWISE