the progressive workers' strike

[Lou Girardin]

Sweetheart, what is the name of the thread?

I take your point but who fired the first shot? Question only, not a provocative comment. John.

If you consider negotiating in good faith as "firing the first shot', I guess the workers did.
But it IS a locout.
Do you remember 1951?

[Quasievil]

SO WHY DIDNT YOU REMOVE THE SOURCE OF THE PROBLEM BY TAKING QUASIS POST THERE WHERE IT BELONGED , SO THAT CUNT CAN SLING SHIT AT ME AND WHEN I JUSTIFYABLY RETALIATE I GET CENSORED

That was hardly warranted Winja, I just thought your comment was dum, considering Ive spent alot of time in those countries you compared us to.
Are you the only one that can disagree with another persons post?
either way your coment was OTT, because Im not a cunt. Its good to see though that you are pulling your head in a bit in relation to abusing members, maybe youve learnt your lesson?

Anyway, I cant see NZ being considered as a low cost manuafacturing country such as Mexico, I cant see any real similiarities at all. And Australia, is not that much different to NZ infact in many ways they are not as developed as NZ when in comes to things like the employee contracts, unions dominate there far greater than in NZ, also on a PAYE basis they pay alot more tax, so the comparision to NZ being the Mexico of Australia is dum.
If your comparing USA to Mexico socially and economically, politically
in the same way to Aussie and NZ, your way off track in my opinion, if Im allowed one

[Clockwork]

Thanks Lou


but really whats behind it .. How many large Aussie corporations are in NZ .. trying to keep their costs down and pay poorly ..& where are their profits spent .. not here

hmmm this brings to mind same situation in china .. called sweatshops .. is it not ??

do we really want this for NZ .. I for sure don't .....

This is the "foreign investment" that so many of our politicians seem to think is important for our economy, I don't understand why myself.

[GN1NiteStnd]

The strikes havent really directly affected were i work (Gull), expect for a couple of empty shelves. Sometimes we can pick up extra shifts from countdown, but we are not allowed to do this at the moment, cause of the crossing the strike line thing. Coutdown strikes havent actually happened yet of course, but apparantely it will.

[Paul in NZ]

I respect the fact that more than enough workers in NZ suffer effects of piss poor management.

I for one found that individual employment contracts gave both the direct manager and employee a far better opportunity to build a relationship much more satisfactory to both parties than any collective ever could.
Cheers John.

I agree, but unfortunately, most workers don't get the chance to negotiate anything.

No matter what the law says, if you are at the bottom of the pile and as talented as all get out there is zero chance of negotiating anything - it's take it or leave it.

I have been involved in all sorts of interesting situations regarding this type of arrangement and collective agreements are the best bet for this type of job. Individually, you WILL get screwed.

I don't understand why we always compare ourselves to off shore economies?

This is New Zealand. We can do things our own way, we don't need to be like (god forbid) america or england or anything else. Its a bloody grouse place to live and it was made so on the backs of all the 'little' people doing jobs many people here would turn their noses up at.

Look, we go on about the tall poppy syndrome etc, bollocks, it does not exist. Kiwis love to see people do well if they earn it by being clever or hardworking and are still decent folks. Shit, they even love people that win Lotto. The tall poppies are bloody dorks that have some sort of attention seeking trait that made em rich (usually by shitting on someone else or doing something dodgy) and then they get all bloody smug and preachy about it and surprise surprise, they get hammered. Quite rightly and it happens everywhere. Christ, would you praise those wanker americas cup sailors that jumped ship?? screw them.

CONVERSELY, there are people who are happy with smaller lives, they don't need, want or desire massive riches, they just want to lead a life with a regular pay packet, enough comfort and some spare coin. Often they are quite aware of their limitations and are perfectly happy. They don't need Donald trumps life and wouldn't have it if you gave it to them.... The problem is, the Donald Trumps don't like that because they think they are so damn special everyone wants to be them... NO THEY DON'T.

These 'little' people have a hard won right to organise themselves into a union to collectively protect what they see as thei rights. They are legally entitled to do so and in this particular case, from what I have read they are being treated shamefully by a foreign company.

Whats bloody wrong with you people? Are you so used to being pushed around by that gay cow and her high school teacher bullies you all lost your friggin balls?? (if so, benson pope has some for ya) These folks are within their hard earned rights and not asking for much and are prepared to suffer for a principle and I admire them for having the guts to do it 'cos it is NOT an easy thing to do. They are your fellow Kiwis and they might just be right and I say support them even if you don't 100% agree with em, screw progressive cos if it comes to a fight, who are you backing, the local guy or the multi national? Go the little guys, stick up for yourselves and I know where i'm shopping until this is done.

Paul N

New Zealander and bloody proud of it.

[placidfemme]

*admitidly hasn't read this thread yet*

All for the cause!

I'm just sad cause my local shop is out of V's... its a sad sad day

[oldrider]

If you consider negotiating in good faith as "firing the first shot', I guess the workers did.
But it IS a locout.
Do you remember 1951?

Yes I do remember 1951, I would only have been around about twelve years old but you would have to have been pretty thick not to have known what was going on, even at my age.

Lockout is now as legal as "strike" action provided all has been done within the law, I think the strikers next move is to contest the legality of the lockout.

If the lockout is proved to be legal, then the strikers are in for a long lean existence, will it be worth it? What will thay gain?

Will Lila Hari share the pain? I doubt it, she will just loose face a little and in that, she hasn't got too much to sacrifice! Hers is a lost cause in my opinion.

I have never seen anything good come out of this sort of action, it is a no win, no brain situation for everyone, whatever side you are on. John.

[mstriumph]

Originally Posted by mstriumph

from your own version of "Let them eat cake" in this thread, Finn, i suspect that there'll be a starring role reserved for you and other like-minded, uncharitable, self-absorbed individuals, comes the revolution....

and i don't even LIKE the french ..........

Sounds perfect for me. When do I start and what's the pay like? I'll sort this friggen country out yet. Bunch of bloody slackers.

...... was actually thinking of you being drawn on high in the tumbrills, en route to Madame Guilliotine

........... some starring roles are best avoided

[chanceyy]

I visited the picket line today .. & the groundswell of support has blown away these guys .. however as posted below they need more support ..

One of the issues came out yesterday when we had three of the locked out workers come to talk to us ..

One of the locked out workers wife was made redundant from her job on the same day her hubby was suspended, they have two kids who are due to have birthdays within the next two weeks

One wants to have a party at the local Lido .. the other wanted her hair done like a grown up ... as I am a qualified hairdresser I have offered my services to give this lil girl her wish ... & one of the other delegates went to the local lido & has gotten free passes & lessons as a gift to the other child..

support & offers of help can come in many ways .. so can you offer time or a service that may help some of these workers in some way ???

Please read below & dig deep .. I now realise that I could have been one of these locked out workers if the proposed merger with an Aussie outfit had gone ahead ... Look outside the Square .. can you detractors honestly say that one day you may not be in the position of these guys ??

URGENT: Progressive Workers Need Your Support
Please forward this message to you workmate or any email list you belong to.
For more information call 0800 1 UNION

By now you will have heard about the lockout of 500 union members by Progressive, the Australian-owned company that runs Woolworths, Countdown, Freshchoice and Supervalue supermarkets around New Zealand. The lockout is one of the most vicious employer attacks on a bunch of Kiwi workers we have seen in many decades.

The EPMU has 110 members in Christchurch. Our sister union, the National Distribution Union, represents the other 400 or so workers in Auckland, Palmerston North and Christchurch. They've all been locked out for nearly three weeks.

These workers are starting to hurt and they need our support. All of them deserve our support.

Progressive Enterprises is owned by Woolworths Australia, which is the second biggest private employer in Australasia. Their last posted profit was over a billion dollars Australian and their capital value is more than thirty billion dollars.

The background to the dispute is simple. Last year Progressive made a commitment to both unions it would seriously look at a national agreement covering the distribution centre workers. It makes sense. The work in each centre is the same. Many of the conditions are the same. They might as well bargain together, and work on getting parity of pay rates. Then, Progressive was bought out by Woolworths Australia. New management arrived. When the unions sat down to negotiate this year Woolworths welched on the deal made last year. They said they didn't want a single national agreement. And they said they wouldn't even talk about one. When the talks broke down the union members took two days strike action in support of their demand for a single national agreement. Woolworths' response? It locked the workers out indefinitely. This was on 28 August. They've been locked out for nearly three weeks.

Imagine your employer stopping you from working and stopping your pay for three weeks. And then saying you can't come back to work until you're prepared to negotiate on his terms.

This is what is happening to the EPMU and NDU members at Progressive. And this is why it's such an important dispute. Not just to the workers and the two unions. But to every worker and all unions in New Zealand. If this huge Australian corporate employer gets away with attacking its Kiwi workers like this, who will be next? If the whole New Zealand union movement can't support these workers at a time like this then what of our future?

These workers haven't chosen to be locked out. And they are not highly paid. In addition to a single national agreement they are seeking a reasonable pay rise - they've claimed 8%. Compare this to Woolworths Australia's $1 billion profit last year.

These workers shouldn't be forced to give up on their legitimate claim for a single national agreement covering the same work in different parts of the country along with a decent pay rise. They need to be supported in this fight. Your support is crucial. Every bit helps.

I am asking you on behalf of these workers and their two unions, the EPMU and the NDU, to dig deep and support them. Many have families to support and the usual obligations of running a household. You, your family and friends can contribute financially by ringing:

0900 LOCKOUT (0900 562 5688)

or by bank deposit to:

Account Name: "National Distribution Union"
Bank: Bank of New Zealand
Bank Account No: 02-0200-0217968-00
Reference: "Lock Out"

Or you can make an online credit card donation here.

If you're in Auckland, Palmerston North or Christchurch, pay a visit to the picket lines at 80 Favona Rd Mangere, Shands Road or Countdown Church Corner Christchurch, or the corners of Makomako Road and Mihaere Drive Palmerston North. Donate food. Your presence on the picket, no matter how long, is always welcome and boosts spirits hugely.

As I said, this is a hugely important dispute. It is a test for all of us. And now it's time for all good unionists to come to the aid of our locked out comrades. Let's show them we care. And let's show the Aussies they can't beat good Kiwi workers. And let's show our invincible union spirit.

Kia kaha. Stand tall.



Andrew Little
National Secretary
NZ Engineering, Printing & Manufacturing Union
P O Box 31-546
Lower Hutt
Tel. 04 576 1181

[oldrider]

Chancyy, you would not like my response to Andrew Little's letter and he would not be influenced by it even if he read it, so I will not antagonise you by posting a response.

As for you , I think your actions for the little girl were wonderful and I can understand and respect your point of view but there are too many emotional things being considered rather than cold hard industrial relations facts.

Suffice to say I don't altogether agree with your views about the strike/ lockout. Cheers John.

[Skyryder]

It is a nonsense to suggest that industrial action is a no win situation. If you are to take this only on a financial exercise then this could be argued. However the trade union movement no only believes that a cause for strike is to benifit those that are active in the strike but also for those that are to follow. Socalism may be a dirty word but in it's purest form it's not the sacrofice of the present but the gains for tomorrow that are realy important. That was the underlying cause when the Carpenters Union gained a forty hour week for it's members. Strong active Unions lead the way for society to follow. Much of the legislation that is incorperated into the Employment Relations Act is a direct result of active unionism and these conditions we now take for granted. The same can said for the suffragettes. Scorned on by society at the time.........now many are considered heroines. We can slag the Lalia Harrys, the Sue Kedgly's, the Sue Bradfords etc.............but some people have the balls to stand up and go into bat for the underdog. HOW MANY HERE HAVE DONE IT??


Skyryder

[chanceyy]

Chancyy, you would not like my response to Andrew Little's letter and he would not be influenced by it even if he read it, so I will not antagonise you by posting a response.

As for you , I think your actions for the little girl were wonderful and I can understand and respect your point of view but there are too many emotional things being considered rather than cold hard industrial relations facts.

Suffice to say I don't altogether agree with your views about the strike/ lockout. Cheers John.

thats why we can agree to disagree John .. Everyone is entitled to their own viewpoint ..


All I realise is that i have had deeper clarity on how tenuous my employment could be if we had been taken over by an Aussie corporation .. esp with some of the changes that had been implemented in early preperation of an impending merger ..

[chanceyy]

It is a nonsense to suggest that industrial action is a no win situation. If you are to take this only on a financial exercise then this could be argued. However the trade union movement no only believes that a cause for strike is to benifit those that are active in the strike but also for those that are to follow. Socalism may be a dirty word but in it's purest form it's not the sacrofice of the present but the gains for tomorrow that are realy important. That was the underlying cause when the Carpenters Union gained a forty hour week for it's members. Strong active Unions lead the way for society to follow. Much of the legislation that is incorperated into the Employment Relations Act is a direct result of active unionism and these conditions we now take for granted. The same can said for the suffragettes. Scorned on by society at the time.........now many are considered heroines. We can slag the Lalia Harrys, the Sue Kedgly's, the Sue Bradfords etc.............but some people have the balls to stand up and go into bat for the underdog. HOW MANY HERE HAVE DONE IT??


Skyryder

Amen Skyryder

also who do you think got us the social wage ??

Annual holidays
Public holidays
Public, no fault, 24 hour acc
Working for families
Public Health system subsidised doctors & public hospitals
public education system
health & safety rights
Unemployment, sickness & dpb
Paid parental leave
Equal pay
Human rights
redundancy protection laws
etc ....


Well its not the Govt that got ppl the above rights .. how many of you are enjoying some of them ??

[Finn]

To all the bleading hearts, he's my view on the topic.

I've worked bloody hard for what I've got today and I wasn't a member of the lucky sperm club either. In fact I grew up relatively poor.

The reason I don't give a toss about those locked out workers is for the following reasons;

1) Don't like it - leave. Can't? Should have paid more attention at school.
2) Can't afford to feed their 9 kids, tough. Shouldn't have had them
3) Their unions don't give a fuck about them, why should I?
4) Where's my social responsibility? I pay it in taxes, that's enough.
5) While this Government is in power, my wallet is closed.

As an fair and reasonable employer, I've had enough of this environment.

Over & out.

[Finn]

Amen Skyryder

also who do you think got us the social wage ??

Annual holidays
Public holidays
Public, no fault, 24 hour acc
Working for families
Public Health system subsidised doctors & public hospitals
public education system
health & safety rights
Unemployment, sickness & dpb
Paid parental leave
Equal pay
Human rights
redundancy protection laws
etc ....


Well its not the Govt that got ppl the above rights .. how many of you are enjoying some of them ??

Great so out of all that, how many days would you like to work a year? 5 or 10?