the progressive workers' strike

**chanceyy** · 14th September 2006, 22:45

Originally Posted by Finn

Look mum, I didn't. I said the "average" kiwi. That's not all of them but it's quite a lot.

hmmmmmmmmmmm

So what did we learn from this? Never hire a maori and we never have since then.

but it is all of maori is it not ... ??

**Finn** · 14th September 2006, 22:45

Originally Posted by chanceyy

ahhhhh so now we know what the story is finn .. your company is lining its pockets off this issue lmfao .. that explains it ..

Our pockets are already lined. This is just a bonus. After I've spent this on another bike I might buy the staff a Pizza for lunch tomorrow and watch 50 of them fight over it. I'll call it a team building exercise.

**ManDownUnder** · 14th September 2006, 22:46

Originally Posted by Finn

ManDownUnder for Miss Universe!

good point though

And the best bit... I learned that as part of my business management degree. So those management bastards are actually the ones that are calling for the lot of everyone to be improved...

unfortunately that involves relying on others to work hard too - which can be a let down if they're on a reliable wage... they "get paid by the hour - not by what they do"... a mantra I learned at my first job... kind of ironic isn't it?

**Finn** · 14th September 2006, 22:47

Originally Posted by chanceyy

but it is all of maori is it not ... ??

That's the sad thing, I'll never know.

I don't like corrupt governments telling me how to run my business while they steal from me.

**ManDownUnder** · 14th September 2006, 22:50

Originally Posted by Finn

That's the sad thing, I'll never know.

I don't like corrupt governments telling me how to run my business while they steal from me.

Taxation and theft are not the same... they have a different number of letters for a kick off...

**Finn** · 14th September 2006, 22:52

Originally Posted by ManDownUnder

Taxation and theft are not the same... they have a different number of letters for a kick off...

I don't have a problem with tax, just the percentage and waste of it.

**chanceyy** · 14th September 2006, 22:53

Originally Posted by Finn

That's the sad thing, I'll never know.

hmmmmmmm but you already know finn, cause you have already pre judged ppl based on race with that previous comment ..

Our pockets are already lined. This is just a bonus. After I've spent this on another bike I might buy the staff a Pizza for lunch tomorrow and watch 50 of them fight over it. I'll call it a team building exercise.

ahh nice you mention a nice new bike .. & yipeee the staff can fight over pizza .. yup showing your true colors finn ..

**TLDV8** · 14th September 2006, 23:04

I guess there are are no other Boilermakers here or those familiar with the Boilermakers Federation... As far as whining immigrants,in all sincerity,if you do not like it here in New Zealand go back to where you came from.I will personally drive you to the Airport and wave you goodbye...Its like a !@#$ing broken record day in,day out

*
Every New Zealander like most any other Country has a choice in what they contribute to their society.Some will elect to be bludgers or victims,others will suck it up and do what they feel is right... Loose the rose coloured glass's,thats life whether you like it or not.

**The_Dover** · 14th September 2006, 23:07

Originally Posted by TLDV8

I will personally drive you to the Airport and wave you goodbye.

Will you pay my airfare and for my bike to be shipped back to scotland?

**TLDV8** · 14th September 2006, 23:13

Originally Posted by The_Dover

Will you pay my airfare and for my bike to be shipped back to scotland?

I might consider it if it involves the rear door of a C130.

**Jack the Ripper** · 14th September 2006, 23:30

Originally Posted by TLDV8

As far as whining immigrants, in all sincerity, if you do not like it here in New Zealand go back to where you came from. I will personally drive you to the Airport and wave you good bye. It's like a fucking broken record day in, day out.

Indeed, I share no sympathy for those, immigrant or not, that complain of the economic, political and social issues in New Zealand.

**Paul in NZ** · 15th September 2006, 10:35

Well this is a great thread in that it is an interesting read but - there is a lot of twists and turns and misleading statements.

True - Unionisim has not always been a good thing, yes, in some times and places Unions were hijacked by the same selfish control freaks that often hijack management but that does not mean the concept of unionisim is faulty. Unions came about to get a better deal for the working man because of horrendous management practises. Without that, we would not have needed to invent unions.

The danger is that we think that because all this stuff happened in the past, it's 'historical' and it would not happen in this enlightened age. Not true.... It happens everyday.

The so called individual contracts offered to people at the lower end of the scale are not individual at all. They are infact a collective agreement because you can only ever earn inside a particular 'scale' and many companies use all sorts of tricks to make sure that they minimise their exposure to legally required staff benifits. 'Part time' employment being a classic and yes, various industries do conclude to effectively cap wages.

To suggest managers don't get together and invent ways to screw the workers is semi true. They do exactly that but they use different words, words like 'efficiency' and 'cost effective' and 'out source' especially when minutes are being taken. Example, a few years back I was involved in negotiations with a VERY large company to contract out a highly specialised technical job. Our company had kept accurate records for 10 years and knew exactly what it cost to do certain things. ie - it takes 5 man hours on average to do this job and you need these consumables and parts plus X amount of vehicle mileage etc.

We opened the books, shared all the facts and figures on what it cost to train these guys to the legally required standard and factored in the industry pay scale, annual leave etc etc. We stated up front what we expected to make in the way of a operating profit etc and pointed out we had never ever had a serious accident or a major client affecting outage using this system.

We didn't get the work. The customer found a service provided that was willing to do the work using unqualified people at 3/4 of our break even price and in less than 2 years, that company went bust and the work was picked up by even less qualified staff working for a company in an allied field, then it was all outsourced to individual contractors working at a fixed price. During the time, the large company managed to have the 'qualifications' needed to do the job reduced to 'has the ability to breathe' and the managers that oversaw this, all got paid bonusses that by far exceded the amount saved.... Go figure....

Another trade got shafted and time served tradesmen are earning much less than they did. Most of the good ones left the industry or went to Australia and the wrecking crew went on to the next trades group and 'out sourced' that. Did they screw the workers? Effectively yes they did, they just don't call it that, they are a lot more sophisticated.

The balance of power swings both ways - no one wants to go back to the bad old days of super powerful unions but I for one don't want to go back to the industrial revolution either.

Incidentally - I work for a Japanese company. They look after their long term staff, promote from within and believe in staff development, profit share etc etc. Never been happier.

My wife works for a Kiwi company and has to fight tooth and nail for everything from incompetent middle managers that are actually incentivised to keep her wages low and make sure she attains the 'right' targets. ie ones that keep the company profitable but not so good that they have to pay bonusses. Loverly.... She needs a union I reckon but just the mention of the word would get her fired in a week.

Paul N

**Finn** · 15th September 2006, 13:24

Originally Posted by chanceyy

hmmmmmmm but you already know finn, cause you have already pre judged ppl based on race with that previous comment

I didn't pre judge nuffink. I gave this person an equal opportunity and learnt that because of their race, I had to provide them with special treatment such as giving them extra time off to attend funerals for some people they'd never met. It's not fair on other staff or the company.

That's why I won't hire anymore until they are treated equally. In fact it was an MP who asked "with special treatment for maori, why would anybody employ them?"

This government is doing maori a huge disservice.

**cowboyz** · 15th September 2006, 17:37

Finn. I am interested to know who you employ? You don't employ Maori because you have had a bad experience with one. The rest of your workforce? Have they such pay and conditions (education) that they can move to the position you are now at the age you are now? You have put yourself out there as the entrepreneur who is willing to shag a goat for a dollar so interested in how the staff in your company are feeling.

Or doesn't it matter because they are just poor scum who should have paid more attention at school?