Smacking kids?

**crack** · 23rd February 2007, 00:27

Bikemike & Spman:

For how many years where we given a whack? I was never beaten,by my parents, the odd clip around the ear, but at high school, they use to take delight in caning us, fuck it didn't matter if you were innocent, you still got it, and they talk of abuse:

To this day I would love to meet some of those Fucking teachers!!!!!

We are told we live in a DEMOCRACY, yes/no?

We have parliamentarians that bargin and trade policy other than what their constituants want:

We have a POLL on here that reads considerably in favour of parents choice:

Would you think it fair to say that this would roughly reflect NZer's voice?

Now I understand that the police have always had the power to step in on child abuse "beatings" all it has ever taken is for a child to say my Mum/Dad broke my arm, or beat me with a jug cord, usually by showing a teacher, is or was the first step to police envolvement:

Now you have an awaiting precedent of a good family being torn apart, because junior being a teenager maybe due to peer pressure," Hey my old man walloped me last night with the wooden spoon, what for? he told me to turn the TV off and do my home work, and I answered him back?

Shit junior, he can't hit you, tell your counsellor, you have rights, it is against the law, he can't do that:

Enter the police:

But too equate a "sharp" slap with the "we use to use the wooden mixing spoon", as beating? now if it is going to be a LAW, then why does Sue Bradford state that the BILL will make SMACKING an offence, but it would be TOO TRIVIAL FOR POLICE TO INVESTIGATE: Fuck me.

NZ had better decide if it is a Fucking Democracy or some thing else.

A beautiful country, but severly fucked:

**KATWYN** · 23rd February 2007, 06:53

Originally Posted by crack

Now you have an awaiting precedent of a good family being torn apart, because junior being a teenager maybe due to peer pressure," Hey my old man walloped me last night with the wooden spoon, what for? he told me to turn the TV off and do my home work, and I answered him back?

Shit junior, he can't hit you, tell your counsellor, you have rights, it is against the law, he can't do that:

:

...Or decide not to have children at all, under a parental dictatorship.

Enter yet another problem. - hey no more future tax payers being born

**Squeak the Rat** · 23rd February 2007, 07:12

Originally Posted by KATWYN

...Or decide not to have children at all, under a parental dictatorship.

That is something that I have been seriously reconsidering, pending the outcome of this bill....

To anyone who says that no force or smacking is acceptable, i ask you these questions:

1) do you have kids?
2) if so, are they on the whole very well behaved?
3) do you believe the behaviour of a child is 100% due to the parenting they receive?
4) have you ever had to deal with a child who absolutely refuses to do what you tell/ask them?
and finally
5) were you beaten or abused as a child?

**Guitana** · 23rd February 2007, 07:30

Maybe an organisation like CYFS would be better served being a privately run organisation for the crown,staffed by intelligent people with the skills and qualifications to improve the quality of life for those children in abusive families.
The current organisation is staffed by incompetents who are not acheiving results.This organisation is full of beureaucrats and hangers on, and it's a gross waste of taxpayers money!!!
I had a freind who worked for this organisation for two years and had to leave because he was disgusted with the way these people conducted themselves!!!!!
Now he runs a private company that assists wayward teenage boys and their success rate is huge!!! This was acheived because they didnt have the ever present Beureaucrats breathing down their necks telling them what they can't do!
He's happy and doing something that benefits the community and helps these young men acheive their goals and live a successful life! But they continually struggle to get funding why? Because large bloated organisations like CYFS take huge amounts of funding to acheive fuck all!!!!
Don't get me wrong not all staff are incompetents at CYFS there are some who try really hard to serve their community but continuosly find themselves banging their heads against a brick wall due to the Beureaucratic red tape and PC bullshit that is constantly put in their way!

**jrandom** · 23rd February 2007, 10:19

Originally Posted by Motoracer

I know that you know what I mean.

Mrs Fish likes to say that, although sometimes she has to retreat all the way to "Well, I know what I mean..."

My point remains relevant. Your language confused social policy with unrelated political issues. That sort of approach is what gets debates fucked up and off track.

Personally, I support this legislation. People seem to be missing the fact that this bill is not adding regulation - it's taking it away. Unusual, particularly for anything sponsored by tree-hugging pinkoes.

I like the idea of removing the law from the equation and trusting society and the police not to lay ridiculous accusations against people who don't deserve it. Less law, more trust. Less regulation, more respect.

The kind of society that would allow someone to be charged with a criminal offense for a standard smack would be so terribly fucked up that the presence or absence of this specific legal defence would be the least of our concerns.

I don't see that society around me right now, and I don't see it happening any time soon. But there have been specific instances of parents who have been immorally acquitted of assault charges via the currently-legislated 'reasonable force' defence, and I'm all for removing that shield in those cases.

**35tickets** · 23rd February 2007, 11:19

Originally Posted by crack

A beautiful country, but severly fucked:

Couldn't agree more mate!

**35tickets** · 23rd February 2007, 11:20

Originally Posted by crack

A beautiful country, but severly fucked:

Couldn't agree more mate!

**James Deuce** · 23rd February 2007, 11:21

Obviously you could.

**candor** · 23rd February 2007, 12:13

Sp Man - are you sure we have the highest rate of child abuse?

I thought the recent report just said highest rate of child injury death. Child abuse is a minor cause of child injury death in NZ. It kills 1 / 100 000 kids yearly. Falls kill more, drownings may from memory, car crashes kill 4x as many kids as child bashing in NZ and thats what really slanted our stats.

Man Down under says
"The law change is over the top but has a basis in good intention and international trends. Outlaw smacking, watch the levels of reported abuse stay where they are, watch average parents get confused about what their rights are... and are not."

Totaly agree. Banning smacking is in the hope of stopping abuse is like -
banning talking in order to stop verbal abuse or slander
banning sex in the hope of stopping rape
banning diets in the hope of stopping anorexia
banning vehicular travel in the hope of lowering emissions

In some circumstances smacking is the best communication. It is a natural part of raising young for mammals. Yes we are animals, mammals - homo sapiens and must learn from our best guides - dogs.

They are a good role model as they do not eat their young like many humans.
They give babies a harmless clout or an inhibited gentle nip to bring them into line and help them learn the boundaries of acceptability.

Someone talked of smacking breaking a parental bond. The bond needs loosening over time - the umbilical cord must get cut emotionally as well as physically so I don'r se that as a concern. My memory of getting lightly smacked was a deep sulk. In my childs mind I felt my sovereignty (ability to do as I pleased) had been assailed.

That is the general flavour of the sulky mood and resentment I felt for maybe an hour after a ? 2 monthly light smack I must admit, tho as a child I could not have put this into words.

I believe on reflection this was character forming. As it proved parents were not (like the rest of the world) any extension of me I could control. It helped create healthy ego boundaries. And it obviously helped keep my ego in check by making clear I was not a little god who could do as I pleased.

Friends were bought up with the no smacking - and ended up very precocious and bratty.

Others I knew were disciplined too much ie not in proportion to need / offense and using weapons, which I see as abuse

Mentally healthy people can use smacking as one of a range pf tools to raise mentally healthy kids. Noithing is more sane or natural in my book.

Why apply laws to all which will not stop the deviates? Makes no sense.
Just outlaw the deviant stuff - define it, like Chester Burrows suggested.

The UN can go to hell. It can talk about how to address violence - look what they caused in Israel and etc etc

Academic power freak s***stirrers divorced from reality if they promote anti smacking. They too should be candidates for political a************s.

Something needs changing based on real bashers getting off on technicalities. But there is no need for overkill. This legislation misses the mark and as someone said is just a vote catcher for do-gooders as it will not save 1 life. Only culture change among problem families and SERVICES will.

I know kids killed including a 9 year old. I know the killer. Her mum was a drug addict schizophrenic recently released from jail. No one in the family was fit to look afer the kid and family all told CYPs this. They forced the kid on the crazy lesbian mum who did not want her and was obviously unfit as it is "PC" to place people with whanau - especially the MUM.

Kid was abused. Same was reported by wider whanau to CYPs none of whom were any better equipped to look after kid, the little girl was viciously murdered within about 2 weeks of insane placement due to the (aging) street kid mother having delusions about her and crazy on drugs.

Not one word about cyps hit media. The family and killer was crucified. Mum jailed for murder - still there I believe.

Anti smacking bill - ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaa. Cheap way to score brownie points and distract middle NZ from what is really going on out there. Statistics show for most kids killed the parents have mental illness.

About which our society does nothing - also closing 12 alcohol drug treatment centres hasn't been a great boon for vulnerable kids either.

CYPs plays a very active role in the kid killings. Cos it (usually) lets the crazies at 'em. Insane policies - insane results.

**Quartermile** · 23rd February 2007, 14:35

Imagine if the media got hold of this thread!!!!

Headline: NZ biker community all for 'wallaping' children

**Guitana** · 23rd February 2007, 14:48

Originally Posted by Quatermile

Imagine if the media got hold of this thread!!!!

Headline: NZ biker community all for 'wallaping' children

We'd all be fucked!!!!

**Quartermile** · 23rd February 2007, 15:09

Originally Posted by Guitana

We'd all be fucked!!!!

Would that be illegal if it included smacking

**avgas** · 23rd February 2007, 15:13

Originally Posted by Quatermile

Imagine if the media got hold of this thread!!!!

Headline: NZ biker community all for 'wallaping' children

Wouldnt matter - so long as i dont threaten to kill a politician.......but its so fucken tempting these days

**Quartermile** · 23rd February 2007, 15:34

Originally Posted by avgas

Wouldnt matter - so long as i dont threaten to kill a politician.......but its so fucken tempting these days

Threats are empty just do it anyway!!

no one will 'see' it anyway!!!

**scracha** · 23rd February 2007, 16:00