Not guilty (Police sex case verdict, 1 March)

[spudchucka]

Women who support .............etc.

Agree with quite a lot of your comments.

On the flip side however people have no idea how many false rape complaints are made, (the stats aren't out there but speak to any detective about this and you would be shocked).

As a man rape is about the worst thing you can be accused of, (next to kiddie fiddling). Complaints need to be seriously scrutinised for accuracy and the main problem with historic complaints is that accuracy fades over time. The lack of any corroborating physical or forensic evidence means that the trial will always be a credibility test, and, if there is any doubt, the jury must acquit.

[Grahameeboy]

Like everything, things will bite us in the bum for our wrongs.
It is not for us to judge and by the sounds of it these guys, if guilty, have not got away scott free.
Apart from one recent post it has all been about these guys and not the female.........okay odd that she took 20 years but maybe the Nicolas case brought things up and whilst her reasons may not have been the best, I am sure she would not have ddone this light heartedly.
Either way if the rape happened then she needs help to deal with it and if it did not she needs help....

[marty]

I don't normally go pro-police (especially in any reference to driving!) & I knew at least one real arrogant & powerhungry egotistical a/holes that joined up but in this case I want to say that I grew up in the same area as Clinton and he wasn't one of those types. I found it hard to imagine that he would do the crime he was accused of. I didn't know him well but he never really seemed to be the sort of person that would do ANYTHING bad (& that was before there were any political gains to be had). He always seemed to be a really good guy (if not a little quiet, serious & stern looking) and a community orientated leader (his judo days should attest to that). I guess we never really know people even if we are close to them but even though I haven't followed the trial closely from here in Aus and I haven't seen him since around the early seventies an accusation like this just didn't add up in my mind. The others? Well, my guess is as good as yours.

So, yes I also wonder if there was some sort of an ambush going on. I'm not pro or anti Maori but I am pro good people and Clinton just seemed to be one way back when...

i worked for clint. he always come across as a bully, who only has time for people that can move his agenda forward. his wife tania started at hamilton as a constable, within a year she was a sergeant (in a job created for he) , within another a senior sergeant (in a job created for her) then they moved to wellington where she soon became an inspector.

every contact i had with clint left me with less than nice things to say about him. he had little or no respect (except for fear) from the guys on the ground floor

[terbang]

Agree with quite a lot of your comments.

The lack of any corroborating physical or forensic evidence means that the trial will always be a credibility test, and, if there is any doubt, the jury must acquit.

Exactly and here we have a high ranking police officer's word against Joe bloggs (regular person) teenager who says she has been raped. Any potential smudge (in jail for previous rape) on Scholum and Shipton, whilst they also took the advantage of credibility for being ex coppers, was suppressed. An outcome that we should all hang our heads in shame over...

[Goblin]

Women who support husband rapists with lies and perjury are lower than the rapists. I guarantee you that the BS manufactured by the defense in that latest trial will have hurt the victim more than the bottle or whatever it was.

Its disgusting how the media keeps repeating Rickards so called 'admission' that he had consensual sex with Nicholls as if it is fact. They have no conscience - how do they think that feels to the victim who failed to ge justice - they should shut up instead of repeating defense council lies. That is called revictimisation.

It is illogical and quantum conclusion jumping to say that because the latest victim had said she gave it all she had for Louise Nicholas's sake that she must be some kind of vigilante and therefore lying about her own experience.

Why can her resolve to fight for justice not be strengthened by knowing that someone else was harmed to an even greater extent than she was. And it is a LOT of stress and pressure being on the stand so I 'get her' re giving it heaps - tha just means doing your best in a literal bloodsport (tho it may all look calm as).

Unless you were there you don't know what happened - I don't mean in the courtroom as a juror either - they know SHIT and have a cheek to even pretend they do and sit in judgment.

Women have about 1% chance of winning any trial where it is mans word versus womans word. As there is a proven bias for people to believe men more.

Anyone who uses the court system to pursue a rapist unless they have a blue chip eyewitness like say the Pope or carry a vcr 25/7 to leave running in case they get raped is wasting her time. Its best just to get a gun and shoot the miscreant.

I joke not - been there and done that. When I was a little Uni student a gang member kidnapped me etc etc (I was lucky to escape with my life) and the trial which was full of BS took 3 days.

People need to understand that trials and the contet are theatre nothing more. Witnesses ie victims are not permitted to tell the full story (censored maximally).

Naturally the psycho freak got 'acquitted' which does not mean they are innocent. Turned out Police sabotaged their own (my) case due to the freak turning narc during an undercover drug operation called "operation 12".

Here is the kinds of things that happen when cops turn dirty.

Policeman McKay as prosecution witness "yes I recieved a ph call from the complainant - initially I did not believe her!!!!!!"

What - are you a moron cop or on the rapists side here or what not believing a normal average uni student who you don't know from a bar of soap. Turs outthis was nothing to do with belief or disbelief but a conniving and successful move to undermine.

WTF!!!!!!! Later when I spoke to the jury (I visited most of them to tape their evidence of what happened as the trial judge would not release the notes for nearly 10 years - to obstruct my bringing a perjury charge privately as the notes were required evidence), some said this dirty cop statement had killed it for them.
They said they felt he must know something bad about me to have said that!

Said by the Police Dr (prolly at the crooked cops request "the (rapist) asked for anti VD drugs" - untrue it was me!

Yes Dr Vause is a very unethical man and I hope he rots in hell.

Said by the judge "I would ask the jury to disregard this defendents gang membership and to conside him as if he was a rotary club member".

2 or 3 years later the freak offeded again but not in the same crooked Police district - so he managed to finally get convicted.

Should rape 2(that I know of but probably rape 200 considering how few people report it) have REALLY happened.

No - but you have Policeman Colin MCKay (the sabotaging witness) and the dead bastard Judge Heron and 12 completely misinformed jurors to blame for the fact that gang member was still on the loose.

My reward for testifying was the cops telling me that it is not good to take on such a big bad criminal gang and I might be best to quit uni and immigrate to Australia.

Unless you have experienced a rape trial you can not know how the lies told in a sick justice system that has NO interest in getting to truth or Justice can burn themselves into your mind forever.

I guarantee you that if I'd got my offender that got away in a marae setting or a restorative justice type setting the truth would have come out.

The Westminster system sux and I refuse to go on juries because I know it is wrong toparticipate and does more harm than good. I cite religious grounds though really its health reasons. I feel sick if I go near courtrooms or see those pompous control freaks in wigs.

People interested in sex crimes often have a strong view that you should do one of 2 things if victimised. Most I know will adviise women to stay well away from the Court system as Justice is not available most occasions.

Others believe the court systen should be persevered with. I think they are fools. I would never even advise use of Police and Justice systems where a sex crime is concerned.

I only wish those who did the courtroom damage made a better job of it and razed that Guantanamo type place to the ground.

Ellie is right. These 3 piggies won't change their spots. I only wonder if future victims will be in intrafamilial since cunning deviates will take care not to mess with someone who just could blow the whistle.

Dynamy Tuss - you said this whole thing will give people more reason to criticise Police. Actually re the latest case I'll give all kudos to thosre involved for doing their best. If Rickards says they went to unusual lengths to nail him who am I to disbelieve that.

Good on them - it would not have been easy to go to great lengths considering police loyalty to each other and all that. Sounds to me like they may have bugged stupid Mrs Rickards phone and caught her out coaching the cousin.

Women are the most dangerous witnesses to have supporting a rapist as everyone thinks women wouldn't defend rapists. People forget that women can be catty and uncaring to other women too.

Remember that sex offenders are very manipulative - Mrs Rickards has prolly learnt to live in denial and bury her head in the sand for years. It would have bee an easy leap of gullibility once so 'conditioned' to believe whatever her husband told her. n easy next step to.... compromise your own integrity.

You've hit the nail on the head candor!!! Your post is so accurate it's scary!

[SixPackBack]

A direct quote from this mornings herald.

Police chiefs knew since 1994 of the Louise Nicholas allegations and his defence that it was consensual group sex, but promoted him four times.
The Weekend Herald has also revealed that Mr Rickards had sex with a woman on the bonnet of a police car in 1983 and this was one of the "employment issues" top officers at police national headquarters were referring to when they refused to reinstate him after his acquittal last week.

What sort of organisation promotes individuals that at the very least have scruples most of us would unacceptable in this job description. Looks like the Police force is still one very sick puppy.

[Goblin]

What sort of organisation promotes individuals that at the very least have scruples most of us would unacceptable in this job description. Looks like the Police force is still one very sick puppy.

And what sort of message does this send to new recruits and younger police?

[unhingedlizard]

Seems Auckland mayor Dick "Whats in the cupboard" Hubbard has come out saying he strongly apposes Rikards in the Auckland commander position. Wether or not he was found guilty, it seems not guilty doesnt mean innocent in most peoples eyes, including mine I might add.

[marty]

so Candor - you bring up some personal experiences that have not gone your way. what do you suggest would work in the place of the westminster system? something that the whole population, regardless of their culture, can rely on?

[Quartermile]

Man I have already had a bitch about this shit on the hori te whenua thread, all I can say is im fucking sick of the NZ justice system!!!!!!

[Patrick]

stupid Mrs Rickards phone and caught her out coaching the cousin.

Rickards? or one of the others...?

[Patrick]

As "Damon" has pointed out in the "other" thread on this topic, on the radio this morning it has been revealed that Louise NICHOLAS has made 7 rape allegations recently, including the one involving CR and Co... If, (and a HUGE IF), this is true, does it change anything at all?

Revictimised? Maybe... but 7 times????? Ummm.....

[unhingedlizard]

Man I have already had a bitch about this shit on the hori te whenua thread, all I can say is im fucking sick of the NZ justice system!!!!!!

So a system wherby as long as at least two people accuse you would see you in jail would be better?

[scumdog]

just grit your teeth scummy. I hear old sphincters are a lot looser than us young fellas.

No second prizes sunshine!

BTW Thanks for the offer but your old sphincter holds no interest to me, loose or not. (So I'll save gritting my teeth for something worthwhile thank you very much.)

[Quartermile]

So a system wherby as long as at least two people accuse you would see you in jail would be better?

No but the NZ justice sytem as a whole including our piss poor sentancing to our luxury jails, its all very week and pathetic