Aresholes con a jury, part two

[terbang]

Oh so now LN is a serial accuser of rapists, does it for a hobby eh. So was this supprerssed as well? Time will reveal reality there. I know that Rickard has faced at least two accusations of rape and the other two have faced at least three. LN was the 'accuser' on one of those cases where all three of them stood accused together and all three of them have been accused together on the most recent case too. So there are more serial rape accusers out there or Louise Nicholas did all of the accusing under different names? Is that also suppressed evidence.? Is serial rape accusing catching on..? Strange how it seems to be the same three guys though, that keep on getting accused eh..!

[scumdog]

KB mantra:
"You are accused? = you are guilty"

[Scouse]

Like I said before the Police Association isnt exactly coming out in support of rickards if there is the sightest doubt of rickards guilt within the Police Association they would be speaking up for him by now shurely

[candor]

Salient points from the most low gutter press heap of shit yet imo Damon Allow me to comment on this repulsive twisting article

The family of jailed former cop Brad Shipton has accused Louise Nicholas of orchestrating a "revenge-at-all-costs" vendetta to punish the men, who testified against her in her first rape complaint against police.

WELL THEY WOULD COME UP WITH SOMETHING UNORIGINAL LIKE THAT AS A DYSFUNCTIONAL ENMESHED ABUSIVE FAMILY WOULDN'T THEY

Shipton, suspended Assistant Police Commissioner Clint Rickards and former Rotorua police officer Bob Schollum were defence witnesses in the 1994 trial of a policeman charged with raping Nicholas as a teenager in Murupara. After three trials - the first two were aborted - he was acquitted.

The trio attacked Nicholas' credibility by testifying she had had group sex with them in 1985 and 1986, allegations which later formed the basis of her high-profile rape complaint.

THIS DOES NOT EXCLUDE THE POSSIBILITY THEY WERE NOT ALSO OFFENDERS AGAINST NICHOLAS BUT THAT JUST WEREN'T CHARGED AT THAT TIME. NATURALLY AS BOTH GUILTY OFFENDERS WITH SKELLYS IN THEIR CLOSETS AND AS DEFENSE WTNESSES FOR A MATE THEY'D HAVE AN OVER RIDING PERSONAL INTEREST IN BESMIRCHING NICHOLAS (FOR 2 REASONS)AT THE FORMER TRIAL

The three were last week found not guilty of kidnapping and sexually violating another Rotorua teenager in the 1980s, almost a year after they were also acquitted of the Nicholas charges.

YES, WHEN SUPPRESSED SIMILAR FACT EVIDENCE RE BATONS MAKES IT OBVIOUS TO ANYONE WITH HALF A BRAIN THAT AT LEAST 2 OF THE ACCUSED TO GET OFF WERE GUILTY

Rickards, who has been stood down for three years, says his life and career is in tatters following the cases. "Yes, my career has been destroyed. Yes, my life has been destroyed... It's the impact on my family that's been the major issue for me."

YES IT IS THE MAJOR ISSUE BECAUSE HIS FAMILY ARE NOW GIVING HIM GRIEF AS HE HAS BEEN REVEALED AS NOT SPOTLESS (WHETHER THEY BELIEVE HE RAPED OR WAS JUST A 'TOMCAT')WHICH IS NOT WHAT THE SELF ABSORBED PREFER. WIFEY IS NOW QUESTIONING HER LIFE WITH A STRANGER AND HER SENSE OF SELF IS THREATENED DUE TO THIS SO HE IS COPPING FURY AND NOT IN CONTROL FOR ONCE.

GUILTY OR NOT HIS CAREER SHOULD BE DESTROYED FOR PUBLICLY SUPPORTING RAPISTS. IF HE WAS ANYONE BUT A POLICE OFFICER, DR OR LAWYER OR OTHER SUCH LEADER WHOSE ACTIVITIES AND ETHICS THE PUBLIC NEED CONFIDENCE IN HE WOULD BE FINE TO SUPPORT CONVICTED RAPISTS. BUT NOT AS A TOP COP

- THAT SHOWS SUPREME ARROGANCE TO EVEN IMAGINE THAT THE WOMEN OF NZ COULD LIVE WITH A COMMISSIONER THAT PUBLICLY EXPRESSES LOYALTY TO RAPISTS AND IN SO DOING TRIES TO BRING THEIR GUILT IN TO QUESTION.

THIS SUPPORT AND HIS MISJUDGMENT SHOWN BY EXPRESSING IT IS THE MAIN FACTOR MAKING ME THINK RC IS GUILTY OF THE LATEST OFFENSE. HIS ASSOCIATION WITH SCHOLLUM ETC IS JUST CIRCUMSTANTIAL BUT THIS PUBLIC STATEMENT HAS HELPED PUT THE LAST JIGSAW PIECE IN PLACE.

I CAN CONFIDENTLY SAY THAT IF RC IS BY SOME SMALL CHANCE NOT GUILTY HE IS (PER HIS BEHAVIOUR PATTERNS) IN THE SMALL SUBCLASS OF THE POPULATION THAT IS LIKELY TO BE RAPISTS. Yet another clue of his membership in the disordered club is that human predatory packs do defend the only humans to really 'know' them.

AS A TRAINED PSYCHIATRIC NURSE THAT HAS WORKED IN FORENSICS WITH SERIOUS OFFENDERS THIS STATEMENT BY RICKARDS AND THE MISJUDGEMENT OF SAYING IT PUBLICLY IS WHAT HAS MOVED ME FROM BELIEVING HE IS ON BALANCE POSSIBLY GUILTY TO BELIEVING HE IS SURELY GUILTY.

ONLY A PERSON WITH STRONG NARCISSIST TRAITS WOULD MAKE THIS KIND OF STATEMENT AND STILL THINK THEY MIGHT BE OF THE RIGHT CHARACTER TO KEEP A POWERFUL JOB AFTER MAKING SUCH A STATEMENT.

MOST RAPISTS AND VIOLENT OFFENDERS HAVE NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITIES. MUCH OBSERVED BEHAVIOUR OF RICKARDS IS NARCISSISTIC. (Per post of a kb cop RC was a general bully, unethical re promotions and only interested in people who could help him in his career - all suggestive of a narcissist type character)
ONLY 1-3% OF THE POPULATION ARE STRONGLY NARCISSISTIC.

I AM NOT A DR, BUT I HAVE MUCH EXPERIENCE WITH THIS AND WOULD WAGER THAT IF RICKARDS UNDERWENT A CLOSE PERIOD OF OBSERVATION IN A FORENSIC PSYCH WARD FOR SEVERAL WEEKS HE WOULD BE DIAGNOSED AS NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER. IT IS LIKE A HIGH FUNCTIONING SOCIOPATH (ANTI SOCIALLY DISORDERED TYPE).

WHICH IS TO SAY IT (SORRY 'HE') IS A CONSCIENCELESS THUG THAT IS GOOD AT FAKING NORMALITY DUE TO A REASONABLE IQ.

Meanwhile, the Shipton family remains convinced Nicholas wanted payback and was prepared to go to any lengths to get it. Brad Shipton's brother Greg, a former police officer of 16 years, says she was humiliated after her original rape complaint was thrown out. When allegations resurfaced in 2004, she "made a meal out of it" to hurt the men whose testimony had damaged her 1994 case.

SPECULATION WITH A MOTIVE TO PRESERVE FAMILY IMAGE ABOVE, ALL PERFECTLY WELL DISCREDITED BELOW AND BY THE EXISTENCE OF OTHER VICTIMS WITH SIMILAR EXPERIENCES - DOH! FORGOT TO THROW DIRT AT THE OTHER VICTIM VIA THE HERALD DID WE MR SCHOLLUM BROTHER (ALSO ?COP) - HOW INEFFICIENT OF YOU

Nicholas rejected the allegation, saying that while she was angry that Rickards, Schollum and Shipton had appeared for the defence, it had not been the motivation for her later rape complaint. Nicholas did not make a formal rape complaint against the trio in the early 1990s but says she did speak to a police officer who refused to take it further.

nOTE THAT MATERIAL UNDERLINED ABOVE IS TAKEN SO SERIOUSLY THAT ANOTHER COP IS TO SOON BE TRIED FOR INVOLVEMENT IN A COVER UP

Tauranga woman Donna Johnson has also claimed that 10 years ago Shipton forced her to perform oral sex on him. She claimed police never acted on her complaint.

Greg Shipton told the Herald on Sunday that the family was aware of that complaint but it was not credible. "There's nothing in this. It's just more of the same."

MORE OF THE SAME WHAT ASSHOLE SHIPTON - YOUR BROTHER IS A CONVICTED RAPIST DUE TO A CREDIBLE COMPLAINT , SO ITS MORE OF HE SAME WHAT EXACTLY

The family also wanted to dispel perceptions of Shipton as a serial adulterer. In the 1980s there was a different sense of morals and values, and group sex was far more accepted than it was today, he said.

YES THEY SHOULD DISPEL THE SERIAL ADULTERER PERCEPTION. SERIAL RAPIST IS MORE ACCURATE - IDIOTS

WHY IS THAT SO HARD TO ADMIT. I HAVE A RELLY THAT IS A RAPIST AND THO I LOVE MY RELLY WHO WAS ONCE IN A GANG LIKE THE POLICE I KNOW HE DID IT JUST AS HE DOES. LEARN SOME UNCONDITIONAL LOVE YOU SCHOLLUM ASSHOLES AND STOP THE COMPULSIVE LIES - YOU ARE ONLY BEING LOYAL TO AND CONTINUING A DISEASE IN YOUR FAMILY.

Asked why Shipton's wife Sharon had chosen to stand by him despite the numerous affairs, he said he was unsure but offered one theory.

"It's a lot easier to forgive things that happened 23 years ago. It's a lot easier than coming home and finding your bloke in the sack with someone else.

"He has put everything to her... They are at peace with each other.

BULLSHIT THEY ARE - SHE WILL BE DEEPLY DISTURBED BUT DEFENSE MECHANISMS WILL PUT IT OU OF HER MIND SOON AS POSS

"The real victim is his 12-year-old daughter. She is the one growing up without a father... She heard all this stuff about what an animal her father is, but she knows better. Brad is finding it tough in prison, but he'll get through it."

NO THEREAL VICTIM IS THE RAPE VICTIM. GET A F'N GRIP YOU INDECENT MORON - ACCEPT THE VERDICT, ITS NOT LIKE RAPE CONVICTIONS ARE EASY WON. MEDIA IS IRRESPONSIBLE EVEN REPORTING WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY. HEY WHY NOT GO TALK TO THE FAMILY OF EVERY OTHER RAPIST INSIDE - A GOOD DEAL WILL CLAIM THE RAPIST IS INNOCENT AS RAPISTS GENERALLY PRACTISE THE 'DENY DENY DENY TILL YOU DIE' POLICY

Greg Shipton claimed the biggest mistake his brother made was not taking the Mt Maunganui rape complaint "seriously enough". The allegations, he claimed, were so far-fetched, he never thought they would be proven. "But he got nailed, and it was so wrong. Those men didn't get a fair trial. The jury - I'm convinced they knew of the connection to the Nicholas case. You know, Brad was a good cop. Sure, he was bolshy and cocky, and he's not denying he was unfaithful to his wife. But he's no monster."

MOST RAPISTS ARE NOT MONSTERS YOU IGNORANT PRAT (only on occasion when the veneer of civilisation is dropped). THEY ARE INADEQUATE POWER MAD IMMATURE MEN WITH POOR BOUNDARIES, WHO LIKE EXCITEMENT AND TO FEEL THEY ARE ENTITLED TO BREAK THE LAW AND ENJOY THE ADRENALIN OF GETTING AWAY WITH IT AND SHOULD THEY GET CAUGHT ALSO ENJOY THE CHALLENGE OF CONNING PEOPLE THEY ARE ABOVE REPROACH. IT MAKES THEM FEEL REAL CLEVER AND OMNIPOTENT WHEN THEY SUCEED AND MANAGE TO MANIPULATE FAMILY AND THE MEDIA TO BECOME THEIR CHAMPIONS.

[marty]

i find it quite amazing that 3 guys have spent the better part of 20 years in and out of court, on one side or the other, in relation to serious sexual assault matters! there are 7500-odd other cops with service from zilch to 40 years, that have NEVER been a defendant in court, nor have they been called to give evidence for the defence.

[terbang]

KB mantra:
"You are accused? = you are guilty"

No No not by my view at all, but the same two guys (shipton and Schollum) being accused at least three times by at least three separate people does get one wondering a bit doesn't it?

[scumdog]

i find it quite amazing that 3 guys have spent the better part of 20 years in and out of court, on one side or the other, in relation to serious sexual assault matters! there are 7500-odd other cops with service from zilch to 40 years, that have NEVER been a defendant in court, nor have they been called to give evidence for the defence.

But you can't get a vicarious thrill out of slagging-off the 7,500 cops you've mentioned Marty.........

2nd KB mantra:

7,500 guys = 3 guys in behaviour and attitude.

[The_Dover]

One day an 85-year-old man is taking a stroll around his hometown, which he has lived in for his whole life. As he sees the landmarks, homes, and streets from his youth, he starts reminiscing....

"I remember helping build that bridge when I was 25. I worked hard on that. But people won't call you 'the bridge builder' if you do that here. No, no, they don't!"

"I remember building that house over there when I was 30. But people won't call you 'the house builder' if you do that. No, no they don't!"

"I remember building that tavern that I still lounge at when I was 35. If you do that people won't call you 'the tavern builder' either. They sure won't!"

"But if you fuck one goat......."

[candor]

And YOUR reliable source of information is????

Don't know if this covers Goblin. She seems to know people involved so have an inside track.

But Scumdog I might just add that victims have good pervertdar, in the same way cops have good crookdar and teen boys have good chickdar (watch their heads swivel downtown at midnight)- Okay. These qualifications and skills are often highly accurate.

[marty]

Candor, I can see your point, but i fail to see how now SHOUTING about it is helping your cause. as a trained nurse you should know all about operating in spheres of concern and influence. by all means, be concerned, have concerns about whether justice was done, be concerned for the victim, be concerned for future victims. don't though (and i know i'm telling you what you already know) spend SO much time in your sphere of concern that you become obsessed by it. move more into your sphere of influence. influence yourself to move past your 1980's experience. if that's not possible, influence others to make a difference. don't just shout and complain about what may have been - people soon get tired of that behaviour - influence others who may have been affected by these (or other) mysoginists to make complaints. calling all cops pigs because of the actions of a few is hardly influencing people to go to the cops to make a complaint is it? there are plenty of good cops ot there who take complaints of this nature very seriously - obviously they took these (nicholls et.al) complaints seriousy, or the charges would never have seen the light of day. once it's in the court arena, crown prosecutors (not the police) and the court system have the ball, and it is effectively out of the cop's hands.

question: how do you suggest people are tried for thier crimes, if the westminster system is 'not' working?

[Paul in NZ]

Unless you were there on the night - no one will really know what happened BUT. If we accept that at that time several serving and sworn Police Officers had group sex with a very young woman and supplied her with drink, at the very least, their behaviour was immoral and badly advised.

Stop retrying the case - its done - it serves no purpose. These people are all guilty of some seriously stuffed up goings on and shocking moral judgement and frankly, they should ALL be deeply ashamed of themselves as should the people that ignored it, covered up for them etc.

No good came from this episode - and none will

[Goblin]

no i prefer to make up my own mind rather than follow lynch mobs who want to kill based on a couple of shady accusations,

or is this just another one of Louise Nicholas' lies, just like the 6 other ones shes made?

Well you go make up your narrow little mind then! There is no way LN has made up any of these allegations, why would she? You really believe she's just making this all up to get attention? Revenge? Seems Terbang is right....serial accusers of rape are becoming widespread....and all WILL be revealed with time!

And YOUR reliable source of information is????

Hey I have lived here all my life and I know more than I'd like to....especially how Rotorua cops operate! There has always been a "boys club" mentality here. I'm not cop bashing as I know there are good cops out there but we seem to have bred the worst of them here.

Don't see how that article can be faulted, it's all attributed to named sources, not vague "sources close to..." or "friends of...".

The Harold has been a key cheerleader for the "Ignore the verdict, just look how scarey this bloke with tattoos and no hair is..." viewpoint through this whole episode.

rickards is everything candor has said! He's as NARCISSISTIC as a person can be! He's always been that way and will never change!! Just look at his attitude to keeping his job!

[The_Dover]

had group sex with a very young woman and supplied her with drink, at the very least, their behaviour was immoral and badly advised.

i dunno Paul, it kinda sounds like fun if it was all consensual.

[MisterD]

rickards is everything candor has said! He's as NARCISSISTIC as a person can be! He's always been that way and will never change!! Just look at his attitude to keeping his job!

I think you're seeing what you want to see there Goblin. I'm not going to be a cheerleader for CR, but I think the way the media (the Harold chief amongst them) has exhibited a complete lack of balance is reprehensible.
Pick a good thugish photo of CR, photo of LN looking wistfully off-camera in subduded lighting...etc etc.

I reckon you'll find those kind of character traits in anyone agressive and driven enough to be shooting for those top jobs - Police Commissioner or Prime Minister -just look at the way Clarke reacts when backed onto the ropes (for example over the "Investigate" allegations about her husband), or the way Commodore Bananarama reacts to NZ telling him what to do.

I repeat, I'm not cheerleading for CR, just looking to see some objectivity. The only people to have had all the fact properly presented are two juries, both of whom found CR Not Guilty.

[candor]

Wasn't shouting sorry - just trying to differentiate the article from my comments. Where hjave I said all cops are pigs!!! I recall saying only 3 little piggys which is a mild term I think for those idiots.

I'm not obsessed with it. I would not spend a minute on it as I'm far too busy but when I see an opportunity to 'raise consciousness' of issues around rape trials I do feel I better jump in.

I think if I were obsessed I might just have started a thread right. No - just responding to what others are throwing out here mostly.

I don't know the answers. All I do know is that for rape cases the current system is utterly unsuitable and does more harm than good. My least fave pollie has even admitted that evidence laws need looking at.

More harm than good - Why ? - because victims are left with huge grievances when justice can't be done and rapists are actually given encouragement - their limelight / notoriety or sympathy they get etc is thoroughly ego boosting in many cases (if they are sociopaths) - many benefits flow the way of true rapists that get off which issomething the general public does not understand.

You have to understand their mentality - for narcisssists all publicity is good publicity and they can use it to advantage. Take the death row guys who have no trouble getting hot dates / married etc. Many never had it so good as fame is relished.

A lot of money musyt be wasted on rape trials that often produce dud results as for most its just spin the bottle type verdicts.

An inquisitorial type system is used elsewhere and I think some less formal kind of trial where victims and evidence are not suppressed and where offenders can be confronted more. A system in which offeders are not given a mill bucks of defense lawyer aid to cook up a sophisticated cunning fantasy might help us get more honest results more often.

Maybe they'd be more likely to confess if jail was ruled out and they just got anklets and home detention or whatever it takes to stop re-offending. Preveting recidivism should really be goal and I guess the public "shaming" and jail are big disincentives to confesion.

Maybe if society got less hysterical ad judgmental on rape an honesty encouraging safety focused system could be put in place.

I mean a lot of child molesterors never get tried or jailed (to save kids grief of trial) but they are still dealt with in ways to keep society safe eg courses - not to see the victims unsupervised etc.