Copy Cating A Product...

**ManDownUnder** · 14th March 2007, 08:46

Patents biggest threat comes in defending the lawsuits. They say you breached their patent... but you maintain you didn't.

So - they sue, and you defend... each at the cost of $20,000 (and face it - that's a very low/very conservative figure).

So they win - coz they had money pouring out their arse as US companies tend to do. They then seek remedies of all lost product sales (i.e. the total amount of money you made).

So that 20k just went up to 30k... assuming you sold 10 grand in kit.

So... next steps... you want to appeal that previous decision (risking an additional 30 or 40k in costs), or do you accept the original 30k loss?

Your call... just treat very carefully. The breach of patent isn't the big deal - the lawsuit that follows is

**degrom** · 14th March 2007, 09:16

Originally Posted by ManDownUnder

Patents biggest threat comes in defending the lawsuits. They say you breached their patent... but you maintain you didn't.

So - they sue, and you defend... each at the cost of $20,000 (and face it - that's a very low/very conservative figure).

So they win - coz they had money pouring out their arse as US companies tend to do. They then seek remedies of all lost product sales (i.e. the total amount of money you made).

So that 20k just went up to 30k... assuming you sold 10 grand in kit.

So... next steps... you want to appeal that previous decision (risking an additional 30 or 40k in costs), or do you accept the original 30k loss?

Your call... just treat very carefully. The breach of patent isn't the big deal - the lawsuit that follows is

Catch 22!!

If you want to boost an industry you need to make the tools affordable so beginners can start out easy.This ensures good competition and creativity.

If I sell the units for what they are worth you will make a killing over here. But then they will sue you for all your money. (Because you made value out of a market the 9/10 people in their population doesn't even know of.)

No wonder young people say "What the F##K!!! Why even try..."

What about just charging for materials and labor for making the product?
That why I can sell my "secondhand" one, and advertise that I will make similar units if they pay for the labor and material. Turning it more into a
service that a product?

**ManDownUnder** · 14th March 2007, 09:21

Originally Posted by degrom

No wonder young people say "What the F##K!!! Why even try..."

Yup - a high stakes game of poker is all it is. Might is right. "We'll keep suing till you go under" is the implied threat. Whether they are right or wrong is a whole other question - and one they're actually not too concerned with. The higher they make the stakes the more likely you are to fold... and they win.

Originally Posted by degrom

That why I can sell my "secondhand" one, and advertise that I will make similar units if they pay for the labor and material. Turning it more into a
service that a product?

I don't know the detail of it but I expect the facilitation of a breach of patent would not be smiled upon.

**degrom** · 14th March 2007, 09:33

Originally Posted by ManDownUnder

Yup - a high stakes game of poker is all it is. Might is right. "We'll keep suing till you go under" is the implied threat. Whether they are right or wrong is a whole other question - and one they're actually not too concerned with. The higher they make the stakes the more likely you are to fold... and they win.

I don't know the detail of it but I expect the facilitation of a breach of patent would not be smiled upon.

You know,I just hate not being able to share your knowledge and ideas with other people. (Sharing ideas generates even better once!!!)

You can't make this stuff for free and people don't get to know about you if you don't advertise...

I will find a way.

**ManDownUnder** · 14th March 2007, 09:36

Originally Posted by degrom

You know,I just hate not being able to share your knowledge and ideas with other people. (Sharing ideas generates even better once!!!)

You can't make this stuff for free and people don't get to know about you if you don't advertise...

I will find a way.

LOL Agreed 200% I hate it too. There are commercial reasons why protactions are needed to start with - but it's too easily translated into a game of corporate greed.

**degrom** · 14th March 2007, 09:47

Originally Posted by ManDownUnder

LOL Agreed 200% I hate it too. There are commercial reasons why protactions are needed to start with - but it's too easily translated into a game of corporate greed.

Life's about balance...

If you steal another persons idea you will get screwed!!!
If you don't protect your ideas you will get screwed!!!

Normal people... They get screwed anyway!!! (Telecom's the name!!!) LOL

**MacD** · 14th March 2007, 10:00

If you really are considering baseing a business around this product then you have to take this issue seriously. There's no point getting a business going to lose it all in a lawsuit.

Here's a starting point, Patent Protection in NZ.

**Quartermile** · 14th March 2007, 10:01

But if something is with the patent office of America, then it shouldn't affect other countries, or is there a world patent office

,
more like America wishes it was the world office

**imdying** · 14th March 2007, 10:16

How does an American company go about sueing you in NZ? Can you simply ignore them and forfeit ever travelling to the States? Can you make an overseas holding company, and have manufacturing done in China?

**MacD** · 14th March 2007, 11:09

Originally Posted by Quartermile

But if something is with the patent office of America, then it shouldn't affect other countries, or is there a world patent office

,

Sort of, there is a Patent Cooperation Treaty, which effectively allows for the filing of an International Patent.

Depending on the product, there may be a patented filed in the US only, filed in the US, NZ and other countries separately, or a patent filed in the US and via the PCT.

**degrom** · 14th March 2007, 11:19

Very true....

New Zealand is a party to the Paris Convention for the Protection of Industrial Property 1883 and, as a Member of the World Trade Organisation (WTO), the Agreement on the Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights (the TRIPS Agreement).

**Quartermile** · 14th March 2007, 11:33

Ok I see, I thought something like that might exist

**V4ME** · 14th March 2007, 14:05

[QUOTE=degrom;973748]What is the implications of copying a overseas(USA) product and producing it locally?
QUOTE]

Seems you've screwed yourself by asking the question in the first place, Now even if you do it - someone will know you are 'copying' - no pleading innocence now! I'll stay mum on - I promise - I may even buy one of your new product - anything to get something cheaper - and probably better.

**Beemer** · 14th March 2007, 15:07

Originally Posted by Quartermile

I have often wondered this as it is the U.S. Patent Office which has nothing to do with NZ, anyway half of America doesn't even know we exist, will we watching this one........

Check with IPONZ first - many US products have worldwide patents and you could find they sue the arse off you. You can do a search on IPONZ's website under different headings/words to see if anyone has registered a patent here. Sometimes patents are filed here but the product is never produced here, it's just to stop anyone else trying to make a buck.

While some people don't worry about patents and trade marks, etc, others do and will go to great lengths to stop you using their ideas. I had to fight someone last year who began using a business name I had been using for years. I won, but the only people who really get rich are the lawyers. MDU is right - if I had taken the case to court rather than settling it privately (which still cost a fortune in legal fees!), the lawyer said I could be up for costs of anywhere between $20,000 and $100,000 - and if the other party appealed, even more.