Stupid World

[TheDemonLord]

We were always taught the opposite, ie a woman decided to end their life there were more likely to be successful.

It's almost like you've been taught a lie, promolgated by Feminist theory....

[husaberg]

It's almost like you've been taught a lie, promolgated by Feminist theory....

The saddest part, is that Suicide is the biggest killer for Men under I think 25.

It's almost like theres a link between telling Men they are all tyrannical, Woman-Beating Rapists - and young men killing themselves.

You say that there is an outdated concept of Masculinity. This supposes that in times gone past, this was the accepted Standard.
You say that because of this Concept, Men don't talk about their issues. Following on from the above and the previous statement, it therefore stands to reason that in the past when this standard was the norm and no one had an issues with it, that a greater proportion of Men didn't talk about their issues.
You say that this is the cause of the current Suicide epidemic.

However - if everything you said is true - that is impossible, since the suicide rate for Men has been inceasing, whereas the Suicide rate for Women has been fairly constant.

So clearly, that line of logic, when placed against the rates of Male Suicide cannot be right.

You were saying something about "Before you can solve a problem you need to be honest with yourself that there is a problem, And seek the real causes, rather than blame what is convenient to you."

Age
The rates of suicide for youth tended to be higher than other life stage groups, but the rate for youth decreased significantly over the 20-year period.

For male youth, the rate of rural suicides decreased significantly from a peak of 54.4 per 100,000 in 2009 to 15.0 per 100,000 in 2015.

Seeing as you say feminism is the cause how pray tell did the rate of feminism decline over this period causing this drop.
https://www.health.govt.nz/publicati...ables-19962015



None of what you said has proven to be true

[TheDemonLord]

You are going off one set of data not the majority, not only that if we use your one set of data set we can see that women attempted it more often so you cause for teen suicide is clearly very wrong. Which is kind of inconvenient for you and your theory.

No, I'm not.

We know women attempt suicide more than Men, if we look at the data you posted - in all but one Age Bracket, Men complete suicide more than Women. In the one age Bracket where women complete suicide more than Men, it's an exceptionally close margin. When you factor in the attempts, it's clear:

You are demonstrably wrong on this point.

lets look at NZ data,
Your dramatic increase and epidemic doesnt hold water. thats 20 years of data rather than one study.

The NZ data shows that Female suicide rates have remained fairly constant over time, Male suicide rates started to sky-rocket from about the 1980s onwards.

Seeing as you say feminism is the cause how pray tell did the rate of feminism decline over this period causing this drop.
https://www.health.govt.nz/publicati...ables-19962015

I'm not saying Feminism is THE cause, only that it is A cause.

As for the explanation: The dotcom boom provided a large number of Males with a path to achieve status, wealth and a position in a new hierarchy, the Internet also had a large number of predominantly Male-only areas, where Men were able to bond, relax, guy-talk etc. all without being brow-beaten by someone claiming that they are *ist every 5 seconds.

Now the Feminism has infiltrated and infected those areas, the rates have started to increase.

then if we go to global data
again your theories dont hold water

All your data is showing, is that you are wrong on your statement that Women are more successful than Men when it comes to Suicide. This is not something up for debate.

[TheDemonLord]

None of what you said has proven to be true

Except, by the data you yourself posted.

I'll be clear: Women do not have a higher success rate then Men when it comes to suicide. This is backed up by multiple cross-cultural studies.

The fact you persist with this idea that even the graphs you, yourself posted, disproves - would be laughable if it weren't such a serious topic.

[husaberg]

Except, by the data you yourself posted.

I'll be clear: Women do not have a higher success rate then Men when it comes to suicide. This is backed up by multiple cross-cultural studies.

The fact you persist with this idea that even the graphs you, yourself posted, disproves - would be laughable if it weren't such a serious topic.

So when you said it was the greatest cause of death in the under 25s ,although this clearly isnt true, you think it still is?
Or when the rate of males who dis in NZ significantly declined despite you suggesting otherwise, you still think what you said was true.
So when the Males vs Females that dies of suicide where far more 50-50 than you said there were, you still think what you said was true.
I am not surprised you are confused.
Declareing a win while ignoring the obvious glaring faults in what you said is so Steve of you

[carbonhed]

It never used to be the case the issue i can see is the data tends to include all people admitted for self harm.We were always taught the opposite, ie a woman decided to end their life there were more likely to be successful.
I would say the data is being skewed by the famale cutters being included as its also a form of self harm.

What's actually the case is that you are completely wrong. Right?

[husaberg]

What's actually the case is that you are completely wrong. Right?

I would be more tha keen to admit i was wrong on that one small part of the discussion if you could provide the data that has the suicide attempts minus the self harm where suicide was not attempted proved that.

[TheDemonLord]

So when you said it was the greatest cause of death in the under 25s ,although this clearly isnt true, you think it still is?

Mortality review in young persons

Perhaps you should take it up with the University of Otago:

Look at the table on Page 33 (People aged 15-19) The single biggest cause of Death is Suicide, for all years listed
Look at the table on Page 37 (People aged 19-24) The single biggest cause of Death is Suicide, for all years listed

Or when the rate of males who dis in NZ significantly declined despite you suggesting otherwise, you still think what you said was true.

Try again, in English and in relation to what I actually said.

So when the Males vs Females that dies of suicide where far more 50-50 than you said there were, you still think what you said was true.

That's not what I said. From the graphs you posted, it averages out to be 57% Males, 43% Females - however, that ignores that we know Women attempt suicide more than Men.

If you attempt something more, but succeed less you have a lower success rate, not higher.

I am not surprised you are confused.
Declareing a win while ignoring the obvious glaring faults in what you said is so Steve of you

Except.
Your.
Own.
Data.
Disproves.
Everything.
You.
Have.
Said.

[husaberg]

Mortality review in young persons

Perhaps you should take it up with the University of Otago:

Look at the table on Page 33 (People aged 15-19) The single biggest cause of Death is Suicide, for all years listed
Look at the table on Page 37 (People aged 19-24) The single biggest cause of Death is Suicide, for all years listed



Try again, in English and in relation to what I actually said.



That's not what I said. From the graphs you posted, it averages out to be 57% Males, 43% Females - however, that ignores that we know Women attempt suicide more than Men.

If you attempt something more, but succeed less you have a lower success rate, not higher.



Except.
Your.
Own.
Data.
Disproves.
Everything.
You.
Have.
Said.

Yet all of what you are trying to say is disproved.
So you go to another set of data. 2008-2012
while i posted 1996−2015 https://www.health.govt.nz/publicati...ables-19962015
I also posted the entire world figures.
you then ignore the rest. like how you said it wss dramatically growing when it was in decline in NZ plus worldwide its not the greatest killer.
PATHETIC

The saddest part, is that Suicide is the biggest killer for Men under I think 25.

It's almost like theres a link between telling Men they are all tyrannical, Woman-Beating Rapists - and young men killing themselves.

this is what you said yet you attempt to say now you were talking about people 19-24 and 15-19 only in NZ.

[TheDemonLord]

Yet all of what you are trying to say is disproved.
So you go to another set of data. 2008-2012
while i posted 1996−2015 https://www.health.govt.nz/publicati...ables-19962015
I also posted the entire world figures.
you then ignore the rest. like how you said it wss dramatically growing when it was in decline in NZ plus worldwide its not the greatest killer.
PATHETIC

The worlds figures - so that will include all the 3rd world countries where disease, poor safety, wars etc. all have an effect. It's like you are trying to muddy the water, in order to disprove something that was clearly in relation to the first world countries (yah know - the ones where Feminism is a thing)

this is what you said yet you attempt to say now you were talking about people 19-24 and 15-19 only in NZ.

Not just in NZ, in the UK it's Men under 45, in the US it's one of the highest, etc. etc. in fact, most of the western world. Guess where Feminism has taken strongest root?

It's almost like theres a strong correlation, some might even say Causation.

[carbonhed]

I would be more tha keen to admit i was wrong on that one small part of the discussion if you could provide the data that has the suicide attempts minus the self harm where suicide was not attempted proved that.

You realise that when you're not just copying and pasting other peoples stuff you're completely incoherent?

[husaberg]

The worlds figures - so that will include all the 3rd world countries where disease, poor safety, wars etc. all have an effect. It's like you are trying to muddy the water, in order to disprove something that was clearly in relation to the first world countries (yah know - the ones where Feminism is a thing)



Not just in NZ, in the UK it's Men under 45, in the US it's one of the highest, etc. etc. in fact, most of the western world. Guess where Feminism has taken strongest root?
See there ypou go again katman cherry picking the low hanging fruit you only use figures and age groups that suit your agenda.
It's almost like theres a strong correlation, some might even say Causation.

The saddest part, is that Suicide is the biggest killer for Men under I think 25.
It's almost like theres a link between telling Men they are all tyrannical, Woman-Beating Rapists - and young men killing themselves.

So when you said the biggest killer under 25, you were meaning only in NZ and only between the ages of 15 and 25 ans only in the years 2008-2012.
PS the world figures clearly don't include disease, Plus neither do the world figures for suicide. these are the entire world figures not cherry picked certain years of certain countries of certain age groups

this is the cause of the current Suicide epidemic.
However - if everything you said is true - that is impossible, since the suicide rate for Men has been inceasing, whereas the Suicide rate for Women has been fairly constant.
So clearly, that line of logic, when placed against the rates of Male Suicide cannot be right.

Not only that, instead of your claims that youth Suicide is increasing and are at epidemic proportions, its actually dropping, rather dramatically, so has the feminism causative factor that you think causes the male suicides suddenly inexplicably disappeared?
https://www.health.govt.nz/publicati...ables-19962015 1996-2015 NZ data

Age
The rates of suicide for youth tended to be higher than other life stage groups, but the rate for youth decreased significantly over the 20-year period.
Sex
The rate of suicide for males decreased significantly (28.8%), from 22.9 per 100,000 males in 1996 to 16.3 per 100,000 males in 2015. During the same time period the rate for females did not change markedly.

For male youth, the rate of rural suicides decreased significantly from a peak of 54.4 per 100,000 in 2009 to 15.0 per 100,000 in 2015

[Graystone]

"How does context change the interpretation"

That's a great question Graystone - maybe you should look into that, you might be onto something there...



Is that like where I asked you for a quotation and you then started spewing a bunch of Insults?

Even if we accept your point of Umbrage (which I don't), you're still left with the reality of you have done all of which you accuse me of. So, just how does that align with your own behavior? Are you as you say "self perpetuating cycle of stupidity..."?

In this specific case. How does saying other stuff about what I've done, change your simple answer to a simple question, from a yes to a no?

Because this is exactly the point, why should I back up what I say about you, when you just lie and obfuscate instead of conceding a point that you are so clearly wrong on. What good does proving I'm not lying, when you are too irrational and illogical to even recognize what honesty is?

[TheDemonLord]

In this specific case. How does saying other stuff about what I've done, change your simple answer to a simple question, from a yes to a no?

Maybe, because the other stuff is what I actually accused you of? Maybe, given what I posted up in evidence should make it clear that this was explicitly what it was in relation to? Maybe, all the subsequent posts share a single unified string of logical fact that you are ignoring?

Because this is exactly the point, why should I back up what I say about you, when you just lie and obfuscate instead of conceding a point that you are so clearly wrong on. What good does proving I'm not lying, when you are too irrational and illogical to even recognize what honesty is?

So you're a Hypocrit by your own admission: You set one standard for other people, when they hold you to that same standard you just jump on your moral highhorse, claim irrationality and illogicality and hand-waive it away.

[TheDemonLord]

So when you said the biggest killer under 25, you were meaning only in NZ and only between the ages of 15 and 25 ans only in the years 2008-2012.
PS the world figures clearly don't include disease, Plus neither do the world figures for suicide. these are the entire world figures not cherry picked certain years of certain countries of certain age groups

Not only in NZ, most of the Western world.

Not only that, instead of your claims that youth Suicide is increasing and are at epidemic proportions, its actually dropping, rather dramatically, so has the feminism causative factor that you think causes the male suicides suddenly inexplicably disappeared?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/hea...-records-began

If you'd be so kind as to scroll down to the graph that shows a rather large increase, post 2015.

You were saying something about Cherry Picking and certain years?

I've given the reasons why I think that at the end of the 90's to the 2010's the Suicide rate for Men (remembering that the suicide rate for women remains fairly constant) decreased slightly. It has to do with Young Men's access to Male-only spaces where they can be themselves and learn how to be proper Men.

As some food for thought - many people consider the 'Gamergate' controversy as the start of the mass Feminist assault on Masculinity, It started in 2014. And post 2015, the Suicide rate starts to rise.

One might call that 'inexplicable'...