ESE's works engine tuner

[cotswold]

Nice work Rob

I agree looks great , happy new year lads...

[RMS eng]

Attachment 275392

Fitted the B cylinder and its all sorted for Taumarunui.

looks alot like jasons 20 year old 25HP KE100 dyno sheet,still won't be as good as jasons new bucket RS125 frame with CBR150 motor 22HP and 78 kg we hope?

[TZ350]

... jasons new bucket RS125 frame with CBR150 motor 22HP and 78 kg

I think a 22 hp 4-stroke in a superb chassis thats 78kg all up will be very hard to beat on the track, the Beast is about 93kg.

[Yow Ling]

looks alot like jasons 20 year old 25HP KE100 dyno sheet,still won't be as good as jasons new bucket RS125 frame with CBR150 motor 22HP and 78 kg we hope?

Is it going to be a virtual bucket or one that goes to the track?

[Gigglebutton]

I agree looks great , happy new year lads...

Happy New Year to you Tim

[jasonu]

Is it going to be a virtual bucket or one that goes to the track?

Probably virtual...

[FastFred]

These are just some of the posts. TeeZee did a lot of work on the dyno trying different carburetor setups, particularly getting the balance between the main jet and air correction jet right.

Attachment 258280Attachment 258281Attachment 258282

OK, used a bit of 1/4" SS tube and linished it down to 6mm, spinning the job with a battery drill makes for a fairly round finish, cleared the end with a center drill, tapped a 13mm length into the carb, Job done. The hole next to it is plugged and I may smooth it off with glue sometime.

But now I guess I have to go back and check it on the dyno again.

I may be able to use a bigger mainjet now more air will be going through the air correction jet.

Bigger main jet should mean richer down low to mid for smoother drive at the lower end of the torqe curve and then drill the air correction jet out untill the top makes best power.

Attachment 258284

On other sessions while testing different carbs the area between 8 and 9 K on the graph, the curve was much smother and sounded better on the dyno when it was richer there.

Attachment 258285

The blue line was the IE carb I tried a while back, the jetting on one of the runs didn't make much power but it drove well in the 8-9K area.

I wonder if with a bit of playing with a bigger main jet and carefully drilling out the air correction jet I can get the red line to drive as smoothly.

I can make more power (31rwhp) with a smaller mj but these two curves illustrate my point nicely. Insted of leaning it out on the mj and losing the bottom end of the torqe curve, I should look at changing the fuel curve to get the best at both ends.

Attachment 258395

Red line 150mj, Blue line 120mj, now what I wan't to do is use the air correction jet to lean the 150mj off towards the top end and the emulsion tube to tailor the curve so the two curves combine.

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Working on the EI carb with the 24mm venturi behind the slide, its a bit of a trick getting the mixture right. Its easy to wind the needle up and down and have it either rich on top lean below or the other way around. But not having a good selection of needles, I am having to stone the flats on the two needles I have, to try and get a profile that fuels correctly.

Attachment 257208Attachment 257203Attachment 257207

A comparison of the OKO with the 24mm restriction in the bellmouth like Frits suggested (Red Line) and the EI carb with the venturi behind the slide idea (Blue Line).

I am still working on tuning the EI carb and haven't completly given up on the venturi behind the slide idea yet but the 24mm venturi restriction in the bellmouth concept does look promising.

Attachment 257152



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Its a little grey, some people feel a carb should always be measured at the same point that the original manufacturer measured it, but yes the rules seem to allow carb mods and we have tried your idea before and it worked OK.

The interesting thing is, that the signal strength was much greater and we had to reduce the main jet, we went from 140 down to 100 which is the smallest we could get, made 31rwhp with the 100mj, maybe there is more if we could get smaller jets.

When I settle on a carb configuration Lectron are open to looking at providing them as 24mm specials if they like the design, then the carbs would be available on special order to anyone who wants one so they will be completely within the rules or a punter could save quite a few $$$ and modify something for themselves.

I would not be surprised to see the B cylinder or a variation of it with its long flat torque curve making closer to 30 hp soon.

[SS90]

I would not be surprised to see the B cylinder or a variation of it with its long flat torque curve making closer to 30 hp soon.

......And a little boy waits.......

[FastFred]

I currently don't post in the (ESE) thread, because I really don't want ... Frits Overmars ... to see the childishness and think Kiwis are drongos!

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/co...34520&u2=13818

But then again, (F5Dave) you have Never worked in the industry .... Any reason for this mind numbing advise?

I am suitably qualified to question the accuracy of websites on this subject matter.

In an effort to get some clear information written before the local fools start replying

Oh my god, Bucketracer is a child! If I had known earlier, I would have ignored him from day 1. Is he getting his first razor next Christmas?

Once again a pimply wank poof teenager gets it wrong

As usual, we have a teenager with no experience thinking he knows everything. You are, of course, as always, wrong.

Geee, You havn't been following there have you? I will write this REALLY SIMPLY.

......And a little boy waits.......

.............

[FastFred]

What is this about the air passing 3 times passed the main jet?

I honestly have never heard about that... Can you elborate a bit?

Is this only on you bike, or do all Two strokes do this?

Does the air go into the engine, taking the fuel with it, the the disc valve closes, the incoming air "bounce" off the now closed valve, return passed the main jet, picking up more fuel with it, and then enter the wrong way out the carb, into the atmosphere, then, when the disc valve opens again, the negative pressure of the engine create a depression, so the positive air behind the carb ( now some of which is charged with fuel) again pass through the bell mouth, passed the emus lion tube, picking up more fuel as it does, then in through the open disc valve and into the engine.

Is this the 3 three times charge you talk of?

This is new to me.
Am I correct in my breakdown of this?

Because this is new to me.

Well I'm confused, is this sarcasm?

Yea, poorly worded sarcasm. fuel does not pass through 3 times, it was worded that way by Teezee, and I really am trying to keep this thread going in a constructive factual way …

I guess you were wrong, but by being a drongo and trying to mock TeeZee you actually explained what really happens.

""the air goes into the engine, taking the fuel with it, the the disc valve closes, the incoming air "bounce" off the now closed valve, return passed the main jet, picking up more fuel with it, and then enter the wrong way out the carb, into the atmosphere, then, when the disc valve opens again, the negative pressure of the engine create a depression, so the positive air behind the carb ( now some of which is charged with fuel) again pass through the bell mouth, passed the emus lion tube, picking up more fuel as it does, then in through the open disc valve and into the engine.""

You mocked it, but yes, some fuel does pass three times at full power.



If I am wrong, maybe you could explain why, ss90 here is a video clip to help you get your head around it.

But to be honest, I think you are wrong again and I am not saying I think your full of it.

But 3 times past is something that I would have expected someone from the tuning industry who claims lots of experience with dynos and this kind of engine to have known about.

[husaberg]

That's quite interesting sonic_v.

personally, I have never seen more that 21PS from an engine with a 24mm carb, regardless of bell mouth/venturi design.

Two years ago I was lucky enough to work with someone who uses MOTA for a living, and was quickly shown that it is a tool that requires years of experience.

With an experienced operator on a 125cc aircoled engine the result was always 21PS, and when we built that engine, it was pretty much 20PS.

Previously (when I had tried to use the program) I, like Teezee and Thomas has seen 28PS as a prediction.

I simply didn't have the experience.

I too had thought that 24PS or so was possible, but I don't know of anyone who has built a 125cc air cooled disc valve engine with a 24mm carb that has more than 20PS.

OK, I don't knnow everyone in the world, but the limitations of that carb size, particularly operating over 9,000 RPM is quite something to overcome.

I will see if I can find a copy of the dyno runs.

My experience with air cooled 125cc engines to get around the BMEP you are suggesting requires a carb size in the area of 28 to 30MM.

Have you found different?

I guess he has..........

[ief]

You guys love your old cows don't you?

Happy new year btw

edit: seems this doesn't translate to well...

'Don't drag old cows out of the ditch means approximately to let sleeping dogs lie' (dutch expression)

[Frits Overmars]

...oh Frits before i forget On your FOS engine with the ctv how are you going to lubricate the counterbalancer bearings?

Oil-filled bearings (they keep very well in a number of 50 cc engines) and maybe a little prayer or two.

Is it a myth that Avgas runs cooler?????????????????????????

Yo. Avgas doesn't; Avgas runs hotter. But Avgas engines may run cooler because of their higher compression / expansion ratio , hence much cooler exhaust gases.

[husaberg]

Hus - it's all very well to pull out these old articles about equating 2 vs 4 strokes, but.......

Jan Thiel 16th September 2012

A 2 stroke gives about 1.7 times the power of a 4 stroke, with equal displacement.

You guys love your old cows don't you?

OH her ,she is merely a T shirt Model. Our NZ Cows are much fatter and Voluptuous.

Oil-filled bearings (they keep very well in a number of 50 cc engines) and maybe a little prayer or two.

Yo. Avgas doesn't; Avgas runs hotter. But Avgas engines may run cooler because of their higher compression / expansion ratio , hence much cooler exhaust gases.

Re the bearings....Thanks I was playing around with a basic drawing and had a "oh that's a problem moment" re the bearings and final drive output doe a CTV.
The AV gas was a pondererance for Rob and the thread but yes it was far from clearly worded. Re his Air cooling..............

Are you able to shed any light on the "Excalibur project" engine project i posted a few pages back?

Also would you ask Jan if i could post some of his frame pictures on the chassis thread?

[Grumph]

Jan Thiel 16th September 2012

1.7 ratio.....so with unlimited 100cc 2 strokes, you're now going to push for 170cc 4 strokes ?

i think this cow can safely be left in a back paddock.....