Can anyone tell me why bike shops only open for half a day on Sunday? [Archive] - Page 3

SS90

24th March 2010, 06:16

now you are just being difficult

click on the link and it show all the different brand names i can access , but more importantly the time I can access them

When it comes to Japan

I live here, been and still AM in the industry an Do know what is going on , more so in some respect than the gaijins ( of which I am one , ) who flock here and FAIL completely to understand the culture then give opinions ( not just bikes )

Ive been here ten years and am ONLY JUST understanding the culture, ( where else can a person take a tea drinking class for NINE years and still be learning about drinking a cup of tea!)

Your ARE making VERY valid points which are noted and others agree with , BUT

as you yourself have noted the business model has changed ( the Internet has only really been round for the last 15 years , So older business model I doubt would have fully grasped the enormity of the change

I design bike parts, and even though I use relativity new and powerful software , I am only Just beginning to grasp the freedom I have

I can connect to the web I can conduct my business, Though large parts of my business is still the old fashioned press the flesh this weekend is going to be LOOONNNGG

My personal feeling is that the model of bike shop has changed from a service work , to an entertainment /lifestyle one where the majority of the money will come from helping people enjoy their time off ( for us riding bikes) Scott and others putting on events such as trail riding not the old repair shop ..( as you pointed out , ueno has changed because of the Internet and the youth culture that really doesn't use motor vehicles any more ,,, )

Failing that the turn over of stock needs to be considerable and I think that may be difficult under current conditions

I personally dont care , David silver spares for Honda , 5 or 10 from England on your doorstep no worries ( Skype , ,,, from the park ! no worries ) and cheap as

my money , your call

IF my customers are off sat and sun which I assume are office hours , then my shop or service needs to cater to those hours , its really is a no brainer

Wed off , or half day wed remember those !

and if we don't keep an eye on those in wellington , it could very well be the last days of motorcyling as we know it , .... only for the wealthy ... heading that way already .

Stephen

I acknowledge your points, but (I'm not trying to be difficult), I am trying to point out that because of NZ's small population, the risks associated with opening strange hours in NZ (wages) do simply not add up.

I remember 15 years ago a big shop in ChCh opening late Friday nights AND Sunday's.......stopped. Another 2 years ago, open all day Saturday, and Sunday, closed Monday and Tuesday. Now it's down to 6 days, and the Saturday is REAL hard yards for the staff and owner.

I wish it did work for the industry, the fact is it doesn't. Lots of people are giving reasons why shops SHOULD be open longer/more hours, and the reasons they are not, are always the same. The market is too small, and profits too low to justify it. It's that simple.

Perhaps, in ten years, yes, that is a realistic concept, maybe even 5 (at a push), but, I assure you, EVERYTHING in these shops will be more expensive, and perhaps you may even have to pay for your coffee, or, as has been shown, another profitable portion of the business will be added to all these shops. Perhaps a few more will have the high profit "cafe" on site. $4 for a coffee (great profit), 100 Coffee's a day....... then you could justify a staff member on site (to run the cafe), and PERHAPS a commission only salesman (that will make him/her work their ass off....for a few weeks anyway....till they see how low sales are compared to cars , scarves, etc)

Is that a business model that sound appealing, because, it is a realistic one.

onearmedbandit

24th March 2010, 08:15

I'm only 34 right, still wet behind the ears. But I do remember when the only shops of any sort open on weekends was the New Brighton Mall. Now I'm almost certain I can assume that no bike or car shops were open for trade either. Soooo, if everyone worked the '40hr week', how on earth did the people of that time get their cars/bikes serviced or fuck even buy one? There was no internet, so shopping on the bosses time at work, or after hours, wasn't possible. You were at work Mon-Fri. The car/bike dealership was open, um, Mon-Fri. How did these people survive!!!!

I don't know, but it seems to me that people are now expecting businesses to operate to their conditions, all because of this internet thing. Mabe they just can't compete. In fact, they can't. I can sit in front of my computer at 2 in the morning, watching some crap on TV or listening to music (of my choice), cig burning in my ashtray, and visit a hundred different stores. And yet retailers expect me to come in during the hours they choose, wear appropriate clothing, I'm not allowed to smoke, I have to listen to their choice of musac, and if I want to visit a hundred different stores, well the other retailers expect me to come to them. That's just not on, I mean the internet lets me do all that. In fact, they might as well close up shop completely, because until they operate the way I want it's just not fair to me.

In a far far away land, the fairy princess grants me my wish. All retailers are now open 24hrs, in fact they'll bring their entire stock to your house for you just to look at any time. But hold on a minute, I can get this part much cheaper off the 'net. What do you mean that to compete with the internet you had to raise your prices to cover costs?? Do you not understand, you're still not competing with the INTERNET!!!.

You retailers suck. I'm going to complain about this on the internet.

[early morning rant over]

Headbanger

24th March 2010, 08:44

I don't know, but it seems to me that people are now expecting businesses to operate to their conditions,

If they want our money then that is the way to get it. They have to meet the needs and expectations of their customers to stay in business, if they don't the customers go elsewhere and the business will fail. Sure as hell isn't the customers fault (OMG, Think of the children)

If customers go elsewhere (taking it international?) it just shows that retailers failed to provide the expected service, and retailers whinging about it on the internet only indicates how wrong they have it.

R-Soul

24th March 2010, 08:55

Motorcycle businesses already run on very low nett profit so you can remove that part out of the equation.

I would suggest that it is because their costs are so high because they pay people to stand around scratching their bums at times that most customers cannot or dont want to get to them.

R-Soul

24th March 2010, 09:11

Steven, none of the examples you have given (suit purchasing, and appliance shopping) are even remotely comparable to the Motorcycle industry in New Zealand..... or anywhere else in the world for that matter.

I think what he is saying is that the motorcycle industry in NZ SHOULD BE comparable to the examples he has given. Good service, upselling, making use of the relationship and the large range and the ability of customers to try on bits, and havinga salesperson around to suggest alternatives and gude you around each and every possible alternative in the hope that that one will fit perfectly.

It compares favourably to the current NZ business model which involves walking in, being ignored for 20 minutes, finally catching somones attention and asking for advice, and being met with a blank stare, or a "take it or leave it" bad attitude. Now I am not saying that sales people shoudl grovel or shit like that. But a friendly helpful attitude goes a long way to convincing a person he should come back. and if the salesperson recognises the person from a previous visit, that's starting to build a relationship.

If we want cold shoulders, bad attitude and lack of options, we can go online, and not get face-to-face bad attitude.

I think sales people are typically regarded (sometimes even by themselves) as being the bottom of the food chain in NZ, being students easily replaceable with no skills required. But actually they are the face of the business, the interface with cuistomers, and the main support column behind the only point of differentiation that retail shops have. They SHOULD be highly trained to understand the imprtant work they do, and should be incentivised by sales targets, profit sharing, etc to provide the most effective service.

This is not an "industry thing", this is just good business practice- milking your points of differentiation.

R-Soul

24th March 2010, 09:20

I acknowledge your points, but (I'm not trying to be difficult), I am trying to point out that because of NZ's small population, the risks associated with opening strange hours in NZ (wages) do simply not add up.

I remember 15 years ago a big shop in ChCh opening late Friday nights AND Sunday's.......stopped. Another 2 years ago, open all day Saturday, and Sunday, closed Monday and Tuesday. Now it's down to 6 days, and the Saturday is REAL hard yards for the staff and owner.

I wish it did work for the industry, the fact is it doesn't. Lots of people are giving reasons why shops SHOULD be open longer/more hours, and the reasons they are not, are always the same. The market is too small, and profits too low to justify it. It's that simple.

Perhaps, in ten years, yes, that is a realistic concept, maybe even 5 (at a push), but, I assure you, EVERYTHING in these shops will be more expensive, and perhaps you may even have to pay for your coffee, or, as has been shown, another profitable portion of the business will be added to all these shops. Perhaps a few more will have the high profit "cafe" on site. $4 for a coffee (great profit), 100 Coffee's a day....... then you could justify a staff member on site (to run the cafe), and PERHAPS a commission only salesman (that will make him/her work their ass off....for a few weeks anyway....till they see how low sales are compared to cars , scarves, etc)

Is that a business model that sound appealing, because, it is a realistic one.

Its good- adds to the profit centre and diversifies the points of differentiation- not just relationships and range, but good coffee. Although you dont want to diversify your business model too much.

I feel that you need to focus and decide what you are selling. are you selling bike parts? Internet sells bike parts. Or are you selling a common PASSION? because if you are, then make the shop a place of passion for bikes. A place to see bikes, to talk about bikes, to get advice about bikes, to modify bikes, to make biker friends, to be respected as a fellow biker, to ride real (and virtual) bikes, to compare bikes... you name it! A magazine rack of all the latest bike magazines. PS3 games with MotoGP that customers can play on against each other (Helps teach riding lines).

How about having an experienced/pro rider around (like a pro golfer in a golf pro shop) answering riding technique questions - maybe even riding out around the block with customers in their new suits/bikes, giving advice. Have a few videos going of the latest MotoGP/AMA supercross videos, showing all the fun that the new gear is going to bring. Maybe a dyno where you can see other customers testing their bikes, and which can encourage debate and ribbing??

A customer may come through more for coffee and advice from the rider and less to buy gear, but WHEN he does buy gear, its going to be there in your shop. Because it will be a place that excites him and reminds him of his passion, and he will want to go there and be around there. And there is coffee for the missus. It certainly beats Westfield...

Everyone whinges about NZ markets being too small to run shops with good service. It only has to be better than all the other dull shops in the same town, and there will be more than enough market fo it.

Headbanger

24th March 2010, 09:31

I just find in bizarre I can go into a place like Anzas and be completely ignored (and then treated like a dick) while cash burns a huge hole in my pocket, even after talking to them on the phone just minutes before arrival and telling them we were coming to buy a bike. One salesman even said hello to me as he walked past to stand outside and sun himself. WTF?

Madness. Fuckers are living in a bubble.

R-Soul

24th March 2010, 09:32

Has that last post woken up a new way of thinking? Fuck me I surprise myself sometimes...

IdunBrokdItAgin

24th March 2010, 10:05

Its good- adds to the profit centre and diversifies the points of differentiation- not just relationships and range, but good coffee. Although you dont want to diversify your business model too much.

I feel that you need to focus and decide what you are selling. are you selling bike parts? Internet sells bike parts. Or are you selling a common PASSION? because if you are, then make the shop a place of passion for bikes. A place to see bikes, to talk about bikes, to get advice about bikes, to modify bikes, to make biker friends, to be respected as a fellow biker, to ride real (and virtual) bikes, to compare bikes... you name it! A magazine rack of all the latest bike magazines. PS3 games with MotoGP that customers can play on against each other (Helps teach riding lines).

How about having an experienced/pro rider around (like a pro golfer in a golf pro shop) answering riding technique questions - maybe even riding out around the block with customers in their new suits/bikes, giving advice. Have a few videos going of the latest MotoGP/AMA supercross videos, showing all the fun that the new gear is going to bring. Maybe a dyno where you can see other customers testing their bikes, and which can encourage debate and ribbing??

A customer may come through more for coffee and advice from the rider and less to buy gear, but WHEN he does buy gear, its going to be there in your shop. Because it will be a place that excites him and reminds him of his passion, and he will want to go there and be around there. And there is coffee for the missus. It certainly beats Westfield...

Everyone whinges about NZ markets being too small to run shops with good service. It only has to be better than all the other dull shops in the same town, and there will be more than enough market fo it.

Green rep gone your way for that post.

What you have put there is a "nirvana" bike shop experience for the customer. Anyone would agree that, whilst that situation might not be hard to set up, it would be hard to keep going. It does however give great ideas of what initiatives would draw prospective customers to a place (and provide the shop staff with a selling opportunity).

Quite interested with the idea of a "golf shop pro" equivalent for bikers - frig you would see people flock to one of those but they might get inudated by people wanting free training. May have to restrict their availability to your premium customers (ones that are generating larger sales - such as bikes).

But maybe a golf shop is good comparison to a bike shop. I know some will say"WTF" but if you take away some of the preconceptions they have a lot in common: both considered a passion, both have a initial equipment requirement purchase (golf clubs vs bike), both have multiple brands basically producing the same item, lots of accessories/ upgardes to purchase and, most importantly, both preferably use a sunny sunday afternoon when performing the activity.

Pretty damn sure that if you asked someone who works in a golf shop they would say that they need to be very knowledgable in order to answer customer questions and sell them the correct thing.

Sod my dick smith comparison, golf shops are a far better comparable industry.

Now I'm not into golf, so can somone who is give an idea of how the golf shop business model operates?

onearmedbandit

24th March 2010, 10:26

Sod my dick smith comparison, golf shops are a far better comparable industry.

Now I'm not into golf, so can somone who is give an idea of how the golf shop business model operates?

You could directly approach a retail outfit and ask them. Just don't do it on Sunday, some (http://www.golfshop.co.nz/static.pasp?staticid=3) are closed as they are that passionate about their sport that they are closed and out playing golf.

R-Soul

24th March 2010, 11:55

SCREW how golf shops operate- you'll only catch me playing that game at gunpoint.

You are losing focus here.

My main message was to seriously consider what it is you are selling...

R-Soul

24th March 2010, 12:03

Green rep gone your way for that post.

Thanks - and while there are a lot of golfers, there are also a lot of golf shops- its not about being the best shop in the world. Its being better than the next one in cheap creative ways that draws out the passion. When you walk into a bike shop, the colours and widgets and stuf is indicative of potential for passion. The bike shops must follow this trail as far as it goes.

Most buyers are probably like me - I compare it to going into a Mitre 10 Mega - its like DIY porn. Facinating stuff seeing all the colourful accessories and widgets etc. Bike shops should be similar- but more personalised because they can't have the size - anything you need for any biking fun you could possibly have- and all the right people to show you how to get there.

FROSTY

24th March 2010, 12:41

R sole--I think you are bang onto something there.
The need for real passion in the staff .Passion for the product and for offering the best service they can offer.
I also think its about making every customer feel dare I say it a bit special to that shop.

2 parts shopping experiences recently highlighted the difference. One shop I went into NOT ONE person even said hello to me. I was there for about 10 minutes.
In another shop the owner said "gidday frosty" and the parts/accessory guy was helpfull and knowledgable.
In shop 1 I spent --yep nothing In shop 2 about $300 and I must say the price in shop 2 of some items was about 10% higher than shop 1.

Brian d marge

24th March 2010, 13:25

You stick Rossi on a big screen with comfy chair and a good start-bucks like cup of TEA and my wallet gets REAL loose
Stephen

merv

24th March 2010, 15:59

I mentioned on another thread that my WR250F popped a head plug and that I'd contacted TSS parts guys about it. Rang and told them that a replacement non OEM was available on ebay as they don't seem to be listed as a Yamaha part, so young guy says email it and he'll have a look. So I emailed last Friday and said if you can source one of those or something like it I'll buy it from you. Now do you think I've received an email back yet, acknowledgement that he received my email or otherwise?

The electronic age was supposed to speed things up. Others have said this is the norm for NZ shops, they don't call back, they don't answer emails. Why is that? There is more needed about changing the business model than opening different hours. Responsiveness would help for a start.

Robert Taylor

24th March 2010, 18:02

I would suggest that it is because their costs are so high because they pay people to stand around scratching their bums at times that most customers cannot or dont want to get to them.

The rude thing to say would be they can only afford to pay peanuts ( too true ) and are getting what they paid for. So true for many industries and retail outlets. Largely Kiwis have lost that work ethic and in the younger generation social skills have very often been bypassed. I think if you sat down and analysed why this is so thered be some interesting correlations appear

SS90

24th March 2010, 20:18

Its good- adds to the profit centre and diversifies the points of differentiation- not just relationships and range, but good coffee. Although you dont want to diversify your business model too much.

I feel that you need to focus and decide what you are selling. are you selling bike parts? Internet sells bike parts. Or are you selling a common PASSION? because if you are, then make the shop a place of passion for bikes. A place to see bikes, to talk about bikes, to get advice about bikes, to modify bikes, to make biker friends, to be respected as a fellow biker, to ride real (and virtual) bikes, to compare bikes... you name it! A magazine rack of all the latest bike magazines. PS3 games with MotoGP that customers can play on against each other (Helps teach riding lines).

How about having an experienced/pro rider around (like a pro golfer in a golf pro shop) answering riding technique questions - maybe even riding out around the block with customers in their new suits/bikes, giving advice. Have a few videos going of the latest MotoGP/AMA supercross videos, showing all the fun that the new gear is going to bring. Maybe a dyno where you can see other customers testing their bikes, and which can encourage debate and ribbing??

A customer may come through more for coffee and advice from the rider and less to buy gear, but WHEN he does buy gear, its going to be there in your shop. Because it will be a place that excites him and reminds him of his passion, and he will want to go there and be around there. And there is coffee for the missus. It certainly beats Westfield...

Everyone whinges about NZ markets being too small to run shops with good service. It only has to be better than all the other dull shops in the same town, and there will be more than enough market fo it.

PS3 games? Magazines to read?, Dyno for "ribbing your mates" From the way I see it, you want a bike shop to be a flippin club house.

Add to that, you want some one ELSE to pay for the toys in your club house (do you want a key so you can come and go as you please?)

s
"PS3 teaching riding lines"," experienced rider giving tips/ riding lessons" Christ on a bike man, I am sorry, but you fit the "unrealistic customer" like a glove.

This is an example of a drop in centre for delinquents. Have you seen Dick Smith after school at 4pm Monday to Friday.... shit, why don't we add free internet and a pool table, and while we are at it, a shuttle service home, after the shop shouts you all a few free Beers.

That is the most unrealistic expectation of a bike shop I have ever heard!

Do you know how much all this would cost?

You use a Golf club as an example....are yo a member of one? They have a little thing called "Green Fee's", and "membership fees".....all this talk of pro players etc comes at a cost.

$100 per month should start to cover the costs it will take to bring your wet dreams into reality.

Really, get your hand off it.

R-Soul

24th March 2010, 21:12

PS3 games? Magazines to read?, Dyno for "ribbing your mates" From the way I see it, you want a bike shop to be a flippin club house.

Add to that, you want some one ELSE to pay for the toys in your club house (do you want a key so you can come and go as you please?)

s
"PS3 teaching riding lines"," experienced rider giving tips/ riding lessons" Christ on a bike man, I am sorry, but you fit the "unrealistic customer" like a glove.

This is an example of a drop in centre for delinquents. Have you seen Dick Smith after school at 4pm Monday to Friday.... shit, why don't we add free internet and a pool table, and while we are at it, a shuttle service home, after the shop shouts you all a few free Beers.

That is the most unrealistic expectation of a bike shop I have ever heard!

Do you know how much all this would cost?

You use a Golf club as an example....are yo a member of one? They have a little thing called "Green Fee's", and "membership fees".....all this talk of pro players etc comes at a cost.

$100 per month should start to cover the costs it will take to bring your wet dreams into reality.

Really, get your hand off it.

Yeah the last thing you would want to be is the drop in centre for BIKE RIDING delinquents.... or a place where BIKE RIDING POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS would want to hang around...

I was illustrating what focus on your market and on what you are selling, and a little imagination could come up with with very little thought in a short time. Its not a business model for you - if you want that, I would have to charge you for it (and frankly you would be better at understanding the cost limitations - although you might surprise yourself). There are also degrees to which you can go towards that vision. There are many other examples of ways to draw the passion in through the doors- when that is what you are focussing on.

And lots of stuff mentioned just about pays for itself. Coffee shops have TV's that THEY can somehow pay for. And FFS get a PS2 off TM for $150. Hardly a bank breaker is it? Dick smiths would probably sponsor you one if you put their name there. Dynos seem to pay for themselves in dyno shops. Sponsored pro-riders could be convinced to hang round on weekends as part of sponsorship deals. Maybe not full time at first , but hey you never know right? Or imagine if the owner trained himself or a sales person up to be an instructor. Actually thats probably part of the problem - you cant or dont want to imagine.

Nah mate- its not me being unrealistic, its you lost in your own imagined harsh reality. A shop with a targetted market is EXACTLY THAT - a wet dream for that market.

R-Soul

24th March 2010, 21:21

This is an example of a drop in centre for delinquents. Have you seen Dick Smith after school at 4pm Monday to Friday....

Do you think Dick Smith would allow those "delinquents" to hang around like they do if they wern't making money out of them? Gee I wonder who the largest target market for mobile electronic goods are. Now lets see....

And while we are thinking about it, lets get the combined buying power of all of the delinquents parents out of the shop so that we can see the wood for the trees shall we?

SS90

24th March 2010, 23:17

Do you think Dick Smith would allow those "delinquents" to hang around like they do if they wern't making money out of them? Gee I wonder who the largest target market for mobile electronic goods are. Now lets see....

And while we are thinking about it, lets get the combined buying power of all of the delinquents parents out of the shop so that we can see the wood for the trees shall we?

I have a question.

Ixion has put forward (using his wife as an example) very valid points of view and opinions.

How would Ixion and his wife feel if every Bike shop in NZ adopts the business model you are proposing?

Already, Ixions' wife (a big spender by all accounts) does not like to come into bike shops, even though they often need to to purchase their motorcycling requirements.

In your opinion, how would she feel with the idea of a "club house" atmosphere, cluttered with Playstation playing kids (etc)

R-Soul

25th March 2010, 07:51

I have a question.

Ixion has put forward (using his wife as an example) very valid points of view and opinions.

How would Ixion and his wife feel if every Bike shop in NZ adopts the business model you are proposing?

Already, Ixions' wife (a big spender by all accounts) does not like to come into bike shops, even though they often need to to purchase their motorcycling requirements.

In your opinion, how would she feel with the idea of a "club house" atmosphere, cluttered with Playstation playing kids (etc)

Geez its all black and white to you isn't it? No shades of grey here..
How would she feel? How the hell would I know. Have you consiodered WHY she does not like going into bike shops in the first place? Maybe because its because its a dour place where she does not like being ignored? Maybe its because she can't get a decent cup of coffee. Maybe because she would rather be home playing on her Playstation? Ixion? Any ideas here? And no, I am not using the term "Playstation" as code here... <_<

I am not suggesting you turn your shop into Dick Smiths, full of teenyboppers. That is THEIR target market. Your target market is riders of ALL ages, having one common passion- bikes. And bikes are not known for being dull dreary things. People dont buy bikes to be bored to death.
I am saying that you should provide a facility so that when your target market walks into the shop, they go "cool! This is the world I am part of and its exciting and I want to immerse myself in it MORE and so I should buy more gear".

Regular rides organised by bike shops are great and gives teh riders an outlet for their chosen art. Increasing the price of a bike, but including personal instruction and a track day thrown in instead of "cashback" is another way of getting them wanting to be more immersed in teh culture.

Remember that even 13 year olds also evetually grow up and buy bikes if their passion is ignited enough. The way that you think you can ignite that passion is up to you. But igniting it is non-negotiable- as that is the ONLY point of difference that you have to the Net.

I have a suggestion: Why dont you keep pandering to bike riders that DONT like to come into bike shops and dont have a passion for what they do, while your competitors do, and we'll see who is in business a year later.

R-Soul

25th March 2010, 08:04

And another thing that bike riders buy ito when they buy a bike is the sense of "brotherhood" that they have with all the other owopel having their common passion. Hence all the bike clubs.

And becauise of clubs, news and opinion spreads virally. If your store is a regular hangout for main members of a club, the word gets around fast about how good it is. Have a look at the book "tipping point" for ideas on viral spread of ideas and news.

Because bikers dont mind travelling long distances so much (and typically do so for fun), it is not beyond expectations for them to organise a trip to the shop on an extended ride past Auckland from Hamilton on a Sunday ride for instance. If the shop is good enough and word of mouth of teh cool experience it is has travelled far enough, you could have the potential customers from TWO cities wanting to come and see what the shop is about...

Its about getting potential customers through the door. Get them in often enough, and they will buy.

Many bars show rugby on large screen TV's. Why not MotoGP or WSBK? Together with breakfast...

merv

25th March 2010, 09:43

So I emailed last Friday and said if you can source one of those or something like it I'll buy it from you. Now do you think I've received an email back yet, acknowledgement that he received my email or otherwise?

.... and a little boy waits. A week will be up soon and no answer to my email nor my reminder email. Guess I'll be heading to ebay soon.

Also, R Sole - all good comments from you.

BoristheBiter

25th March 2010, 09:58

Over the last month that this thread has been going we (myself ad the misses) have spent over $5k on diferent things for both our road and dirt bikes (tires and gear).
After looking at different shops (7 in total) we have spent it in only 2 shops, why? because not only are they open but they have a good range of gear and helpfull staff. Sure some staff are better than others.
this thread has now become pointless because those who are open will stay open and those who close will continue to stay closed.
People will choose where they shop for a vast range of reasons and nothing will change that. I myself am a loyal customer that will shop at a few places because in general those shops have given me the best service and are open when i need them to be and therefore I will look at them first every time.
If the other bike shops want to stay closed so be it, i will just spend my money elsewhere.

Ixion

25th March 2010, 10:26

..Have you consiodered WHY she does not like going into bike shops in the first place? Maybe because its because its a dour place where she does not like being ignored? Maybe its because she can't get a decent cup of coffee. Maybe because she would rather be home playing on her Playstation? Ixion? Any ideas here?...

Pretty much I guess. Just an alien environment to her. And inhospitable. Nothing pretty there, nothing feminine, no coffee.

I said somewhere earlier, that the chick market should be a valuable one in biking now.

So why not provide a chick friendly area ? As well, or instead of. Not every bike shop has to target the same demographic, y'know. You could have one shop targets the sprotsbikers , as suggested. Another targets the old gits, with more emphasis on DIY and classic stuff. While another targets chicks. With chick friendly show rooms, and some female staff. Bigger shops, have one corner of the showroom for each.

If you were a woman would you want to get undressed in a typical bike shop (to try on the new gear you're looking at) ? I wouldn't.
?
(This does already happen to some extent amongst switched on shops)

avgas

25th March 2010, 11:06

Its about getting potential customers through the door. Get them in often enough, and they will buy.

Many bars show rugby on large screen TV's. Why not MotoGP or WSBK? Together with breakfast...
I will keep this simple
Deus Ex Machina..... I bought lunch, took photos, and bought a t-shirt. Lucky I didn't have have $30K burning a hole in the back pocket or else I would have also walked out with a bike. Also I paid PREMIUM for all the items I bought ($50 for lunch, $60 for t-shirt)......
Prob the only thing I miss from Sydney.

SS90

25th March 2010, 12:13

.... and a little boy waits. A week will be up soon and no answer to my email nor my reminder email. Guess I'll be heading to ebay soon.

Also, R Sole - all good comments from you.

How many times has a slaesman waited for some snot nosed drivler to "come in with the money"......

SS90

25th March 2010, 12:15

Brian d marge

25th March 2010, 12:19

I am learning a lot from this thread

Yes women side of things
I was in Motegi last year and I tool lots of photos of the shops and things to do OTHER than the racing which while i love it was ,,erm not so good as it could have been
Ive said it once Ill say it till Im blue in the face Paeroa is a hidden Jewel

but back on topic , the food was good , the speedway hamburger shop for those that know do wonderful burgers and then there is the kids playground , I could spend hours just in the kids playground !!! TRY electric bikes where I could race my two boys one is 3 the other five ! cool or what

Anyway the missus was bored out of her skull with the racing ( divorce pending) she bought a cup of coffee and texted her friends while the kids were playing

She did go looking around the shop selling gifts which were of a motor vehicle nature , bought some chocolates and I bought a Tee shirt

I have to admit as a family if i were to trundle around the bike shops here , even with the boys , it really does exclude the wife
( which really isn't a bad thing in some way)

Maybe Duex et machina or what ever its call is the way to go with lunch and other stuff ,( a cheaper version for the common man though! )

even a nice chair and a coffee would be a start I suppose , I don't know women are a mystery ,,,never really understood them...
just sharing my observations ,,,

Stephen

SS90

25th March 2010, 12:20

Pretty much I guess. Just an alien environment to her. And inhospitable. Nothing pretty there, nothing feminine, no coffee.

I said somewhere earlier, that the chick market should be a valuable one in biking now.

So why not provide a chick friendly area ? As well, or instead of. Not every bike shop has to target the same demographic, y'know. You could have one shop targets the sprotsbikers , as suggested. Another targets the old gits, with more emphasis on DIY and classic stuff. While another targets chicks. With chick friendly show rooms, and some female staff. Bigger shops, have one corner of the showroom for each.

If you were a woman would you want to get undressed in a typical bike shop (to try on the new gear you're looking at) ? I wouldn't.
?
(This does already happen to some extent amongst switched on shops)

Can anyone suggest a motorcycle shop buisness plan that caters to pussywhipped weaklings?

SS90

25th March 2010, 12:23

scott411

25th March 2010, 13:15

i think comparing Dues to a normal motorcycle shop is a bit off, it is an awesome cafe and clothes shop but have a very small focus in range of bikes , parts, gear etc that they sell

i think some shops have changed in the last 10 years, i know we have, changing rooms are comman place, and alot have free coffee (we do), but alot of shops try to be alot of things to a lot of people, esp in rural towns, you are dealing with farmers, off raod riders, and road riders, each are segregated even further amongst themselves, i think some shops disversify as best they can but it is always a trade off,

BoristheBiter

25th March 2010, 13:17

Post a Photocopy of the recept for the 5K spent, or delete your Kiwibiker acount.

Timewaster.

Let me guess, your shop isn't open on the weekend, well boo hoo. Get a life.
If people want to look at what they are going to buy who are you to tell them they can't.
If someone doesn't want to go into a shop because it's a dirty little hole or the staff are shit why is it there fault.
Everyone window shops then a staff member or the like comes over and makes them feel like they are welcome and they buy something. If you haven't grasped this concept you'll go out of business very quickly.

BoristheBiter

25th March 2010, 13:21

If my wife was texting someone while her kids where playing (and I was a Gaijin), I would be worried.

Sounds like you would be an outsider where ever you went.

avgas

25th March 2010, 13:33

i think comparing Dues to a normal motorcycle shop is a bit off, it is an awesome cafe and clothes shop but have a very small focus in range of bikes , parts, gear etc that they sell
Errr motomail uses the same strategy.

avgas

25th March 2010, 13:36

Can anyone suggest a motorcycle shop buisness plan that caters to pussywhipped weaklings?
Local harley shop........*awaits onslaught* hehe

SS90

25th March 2010, 13:38

Sounds like you would be an outsider where ever you went.

Sounds like you don't know what a Gaijin is..... you need to get out.

und Sie kannen nicht sprachen deutsch auch............... was ist meher wichtig, ?

So, where is your receipt for the "5 K spent".....??????

scott411

25th March 2010, 13:42

Errr motomail uses the same strategy.

fair call, its close, did not really think of them, there products lines in motorcycle gear is a huge compared to Dues tho,

Ixion

25th March 2010, 13:55

Well. Well, well. That was an interesting lunch. Quite apart from perving the latest Dodgimocycle.

Finally got my arse into gear, and sussed out Deus ex Machina.

Now, let's see, what have we discussed.

Open Sundays ? Yep. 8 to 3, I can live with that. Saturdays too.
Coffee? Yep. Good
Food ? Yep. Not a big range but good
Nice comfy counches ? Yes. Lot of them
Range of bike gear ? Yes. Limited to their demographic , granted, but that's the business they're in
Other casual clothing. ? Yes.
Separate area for chick stuff ? Yes.
Female sales staff ? Yes.
Bikes on display and to sell ? Yes. Drool
Attentive but not pushy sales staff . Yes. I was looking over the open face helmets. Guy checks , anything you're after in particular? Just browsing. Sure thing, I'm over there if you want anything. And GET THIS - he pointed out the display of goggles! Fuckin' ay. Almost makes me wonder if he's been reading this thread.
Workshop out back, you can watch through a big window. I watched. If you can wrench a DBD34, I reckon you know your bike stuff.
Reasonable range of aftermarket parts and accessories. Again, demographic targeted. They know what business they're in. Some nice stuff there , too. Those ally tanks are to die for.
They harvest email contacts , I put my name down.
Dedicated bike parking at front door.
Lots of magazines (bike ones). No Playstation, not in their demographic.
Place was crowded on a Thursday midday. As in dozens of people. Buying stuff
OK, it's targeted at a specific demographic. The retro/custom/old bugger demographic. Hard core sprotsbikers would be underwhelmed, and there's not much for dirt bikers (except the Goldie scrambler . But you could take that same model, change the gear and the bikes, and target any other rider demographic

Not cheap. I bought some bits , and lunch. Top dollar I guess, I'm sure I could get them cheaper on the net. Y' know what, I don't care. That place made people want to buy. The value perception was good, it was a good experience. I'll be back. And I don't reckon many of the folk buying would be too bothered if you told them they could get the stuff cheaper on the net.

Yeah yeah, I know, it's not the same, it won't work, it's not a "real" bike shop. It's not the good old way so it can't be any good, it's all a conspiracy to undermine real bike shops

. But me, I have seen the future and it works.

Brian d marge

25th March 2010, 14:07

I pity the poor bloke she is texting
Stephen

BoristheBiter

25th March 2010, 14:20

Sounds like you don't know what a Gaijin is..... you need to get out.

und Sie kannen nicht sprachen deutsch auch............... was ist meher wichtig, ?

So, where is your receipt for the "5 K spent".....??????

Gaijin- From Japanese, literarily meaning " outsider". A derrogatory and ethnocentric term used to describe a foreigner in Japan that has round eyes. Other East Asians are not referred as " gaijin".
No seem to have it right.
And your right I can't speak German well, what is your point?
ies destul de des, datorită.
Wenn Sie möchte, dass meine Erhalt Ich bin mehr als glücklich, krank es den Arsch

R-Soul

25th March 2010, 15:02

How many times has a slaesman waited for some snot nosed drivler to "come in with the money"......

You are quick to judge. That same snot nosed driveler's dad drives an Aston Martin....
And that same snot nosed geeky type will one day graduate school/uni and get a paying job - whether its with or without a passion for bikes depends on the work you have been doing to make him WANT to be part of the culture.

R-Soul

25th March 2010, 15:40

And another thing (in case you have not heard enough):

When food is served - if it is REALLY good food- it gives the wives good reason to come back, without much prodding from their biker hubbies.

merv

25th March 2010, 17:14

Now SS90 what's up with you I'm beginning to sense some hostility here, are you really in the bike business after all, but none of us come to your shop?

Big Dog

25th March 2010, 18:17

I have never worked this one out.

I did ask in a motorbike shop once and the reply was "we don't make enough money on a sunday to break even".

Surely more people are around to buy accessories and trial bikes on a sunday than on a week day?

Just never made sense, you don't see harvey norman or dick smith closing early on a sunday (just comparing some retailers).

It just seems like a really strange business model to me. At first I thought they closed to allow for shop organised rides but this doesn't seem to be the case.

Perhaps it is becuase staff are almost all bikers and sunday is a premium riding day.
Perhaps is is because the bike shop owners are already betraying their families by opening on a sunday in the first place.

The moral decline in our youth started with the introduction of 6 and then 7 day trading.
Now to afford our decadent lifestyles we work 6 days each parent and Kids get neglected.

We try to blame it on anti smacking legislation, NCEA, teachers who don't care etc but it is really about piss poor parenting because people whinge about poor service and take there business elsewhere (along with a haughty attitude) because they cannot get organised enough to get into a shop during normal business hours like normal organised people with a quility work life balance.

IdunBrokdItAgin

25th March 2010, 19:18

Perhaps it is becuase staff are almost all bikers and sunday is a premium riding day.
Perhaps is is because the bike shop owners are already betraying their families by opening on a sunday in the first place.

The moral decline in our youth started with the introduction of 6 and then 7 day trading.
Now to afford our decadent lifestyles we work 6 days each parent and Kids get neglected.

We try to blame it on anti smacking legislation, NCEA, teachers who don't care etc but it is really about piss poor parenting because people whinge about poor service and take there business elsewhere (along with a haughty attitude) because they cannot get organised enough to get into a shop during normal business hours like normal organised people with a quility work life balance.

Dagnamit - I can't go and change the OP.

After yet another response from a KBer who couldn't be arsed to read past the first post I thought I 'd go and edit it to correct the Sunday mistake and to tell them to stop damn well replying to the OP in a thread that has had over 500 RESPONSES TO IT!

FFS don't people realise that they should at least have the courtesy to read to the end if they really feel the need to post on the flipping thread.

Dagnamit dagnamit dganamit - rant over.

SS90

25th March 2010, 20:27

Now SS90 what's up with you I'm beginning to sense some hostility here, are you really in the bike business after all, but none of us come to your shop?

I get the feeling that no one can come up with reasonable arguments to my points.

merv

25th March 2010, 21:42

The only points you seem to come up with is it can't be done coz its not done like that in "Upper Hutt" - whereas we expect some change and want the "Hood" to shake itself out of the 60's - all figuratively speaking of course - read its time some bike shops all over NZ became more customer focussed to meet customer needs.

So I don't think anyone is really arguing with your points at all - we all know that you are right, that is how stuck in a time warp the businesses are except for a few - just curious that you act the same - its like it is coz it always was and therefore will always be. The flaw in that model is that in the end the non-customer-focussed business will fold through lack of revenue and so it won't always be.

SS90

25th March 2010, 22:21

I get the feeling that no one can come up with reasonable arguments to my points.

Ditto......

merv

25th March 2010, 22:28

Ditto......

Are you trying to argue with yourself now?

Are you an ex-Hood boy?

Is spring coming on in Austria OK now and do you ever drive/ride through Switzerland down to Italy via Gotthard or San Bernadino at all and what would be your pick for Easter Saturday morning as to which route would flow the best?

SS90

25th March 2010, 22:38

Are you trying to argue with yourself now?

Are you an ex-Hood boy?

Is spring coming on in Austria OK now and do you ever drive/ride through Switzerland down to Italy via Gotthard or San Bernadino at all and what would be your pick for Easter Saturday morning as to which route would flow the best?

Since we work Saturday mornings, and we make 90% of our business in Spring/ Summer, I don't get much of an opportunity to ride such large distances....... I get holidays in winter, and you can't ride after November here (too much snow), deal with performance two stroke engines all day long, and can't ride more than 4 hours a week.........

My 1 year old KTM has 2342km on it, and I ride it when I am not working........Imagine if we extended opening hours.......

SS90

26th March 2010, 05:23

Are you trying to argue with yourself now?

Are you an ex-Hood boy?

No, I used Hut Valley as a random example.

I have learned that personal insults come at a time when you simply make too much sense, and no-one can find a reasonable argument to counter your views...... Like kindergarten.....

It's not simply because "it's always been like that, and that's how it is", as I have said time and time again, it has been tried, many times, by many shops all over NZ, and it is not viable from a business point of view.

imdying

26th March 2010, 08:43

Either that, or none of them have done it properly... I know what my money is on.

On another note, props to the Bike Gear Warehouse for filling a hugely obvious gap that has been in NZ for waaaaay too long.

R-Soul

26th March 2010, 08:45

No, I used Hut Valley as a random example.

I have learned that personal insults come at a time when you simply make too much sense, and no-one can find a reasonable argument to counter your views...... Like kindergarten.....

It's not simply because "it's always been like that, and that's how it is", as I have said time and time again, it has been tried, many times, by many shops all over NZ, and it is not viable from a business point of view.

Your points are not points at all. How teh hell is good service not viable form a business point of view? How is paying workers for 5 days a week (thursday to monday) instead of 5 days a week (monday to friday) not viable form a business point of view? Is there something I am missing here? I can understand it from a family commiment point of view, sure.

And it sounds like Deuce ex Machina (never been there myself- just found out about it) is taking on a new business model and doing pretty well with it?

PS why dont you start selling snowmobiles in winter?
Potato/potatoe...

R-Soul

26th March 2010, 08:46

And how is traininig sales people properly to build personal relationships with potential and future customers not viable from a business point of view?

avgas

26th March 2010, 09:04

Imagine if we extended opening hours.......
How about if you DECREASED them. yes you heard me right.
Say you do 3-8pm and a few hours on the weekend.
I would be surprised if business did no double. And you would be working less hours.
Or do you only sell to beneficiaries and high rollers. AKA those who don't work normal hours.
Because fact of matter is that you will be only getting the 'truly dedicated' through the doors during working hours, not the average biker-with-bucks.

onearmedbandit

26th March 2010, 09:17

Or do you only sell to beneficiaries and high rollers. AKA those who don't work normal hours.
Because fact of matter is that you will be only getting the 'truly dedicated' through the doors during working hours, not the average biker-with-bucks.

Really? I have Mondays and Tuesdays off, and I'm neither a beneficiary or a 'high roller'. In fact if you weren't so blind I think you'd find a lot of 'average' people work jobs that give them either entire days off during the normal week or at least a few hours.

SS90

26th March 2010, 09:27

How about if you DECREASED them. yes you heard me right.
Say you do 3-8pm and a few hours on the weekend.
I would be surprised if business did no double. And you would be working less hours.
Or do you only sell to beneficiaries and high rollers. AKA those who don't work normal hours.
Because fact of matter is that you will be only getting the 'truly dedicated' through the doors during working hours, not the average biker-with-bucks.

It's about the variety you get with motorcyclists.

For example inner city bars.

5 years ago, a friend decided that he would close his (popular) inner city bar on Mondays because it was so slow, it barely paid the wages, if at all.

It turned out that closing Mondays affected his business for the rest of the week....he needed to be open all week long, because customers needed to know that the bar was open, not be unsure if they where or not (so not bother checking), and find a bar that they where certain was open.

This bar I noticed 3 months ago is now open all week.

Granted, bike shop customers can (and will) ring first to see if a shop is open (sometimes just hoping someone will answer the phone), so quite often the visit is planned, rather than "random" (as choosing a bar can be)

The problem that I see with your suggestion is that there will now be a group of customers that are disadvantaged.

(out of towners coming to make some business.....you would be surprised how often that happens), for example would be surprised to see that a bike shop was closed at 1:30 on a Thursday afternoon.

It's not possible to please everyone, but you can find that compromise works, and things just "find their own groove".

I whine a bit about the poor wages (comparitively), but that is also another point.

Not too many people will be really happy working till 8pm (what about the young kids that are in bed EVERY night before you get home from work.....sacrifices like that get made all the time, but the trade off for crappy hours & hard work is more often than not,well rewarded when it comes to payday.....not really applicable in this industry (no matter what part of the world you are in)

Lot's of bike shops in Tokyo are open late nights (9pm), but they are staffed by, 2 guys for the "graveyard shift" so that goes to show that even witha city with millions of people, how big the demand REALLY is when it comes to later open hours..... if it really was the key to business growth, then you would logically have MORE staff on at night, rather than a skeleton crew.

Again, the market dictates the business models.

Bike shops don't get together and plan the "screw the customer" "working week" hours, the size of the population dictates it.

Coffee shops, big profit, millions of Kiwi's drink it, so even with a small population, there is plenty of business to go around.

Not the same for bike shops.

I don't believe that the opening hours of shops stops people from getting into the game, there are other reasons for that, like I have said before, every single bike shop owner would dearly love for shops to be open 24/7 (if you could justify it with 24/7 type turnover, it would be great!

I just think that "odd" (for retail) opening hours for a bike shop would be novel at first, but soon it would become weird...after all who wants to work when your mates are out enjoying their bikes after finishing work on a Summers evening.

imdying

26th March 2010, 10:01

How many times has a slaesman waited for some snot nosed drivler to "come in with the money"......10 years in my case... and since then I've brought two brand new bikes in 3 years, plus a second hand one, plus oodles of gear... snot nosed drivlers get degrees and have discretionary spending coming out their ears. They also remember who was a cunt to them when they were a young dreamer buying cheap crappy tyres and helmets... That's a big FUCK YOU Graham Casbolt... I really enjoyed purchasing my brand new Fireblade from the other Honda shop... shame you don't have a monopoly on the brand in Christchurch any more, isn't it...

SS90

26th March 2010, 10:05

Yikes!.........

onearmedbandit

26th March 2010, 10:22

Yikes!.........

If you've dealt with Graham you'd understand. I had the wonderful experience of working for him...

avgas

26th March 2010, 11:16

Really? I have Mondays and Tuesdays off, and I'm neither a beneficiary or a 'high roller'. In fact if you weren't so blind I think you'd find a lot of 'average' people work jobs that give them either entire days off during the normal week or at least a few hours.
Fuck really?
Right now I am looking at getting as many days as I can. Got last weekend. Looks like I will get most of this weekend.
40 hours sounds like a hollow promise to me whenever I sign a contract these days.
First employer out of uni screwed me good. Contract stated "Minimum 40 hours a week" so they didn't have to pay me overtime.
I don't mind working long days, but soon as you pass 14 days without a break - you go a little crazy.
Perhaps I just take too much on.

Wouldn't it be cool though if shops had like a massive marketing build-up, then were open for like 2 hours a week (say 7pm-9pm on a Friday)
big party, big sales - bam in 1 go. Heaps of hype. Then the rest of the time it was hours like normal.

Could add bit of enthusiasm etc

onearmedbandit

26th March 2010, 11:27

Wouldn't it be cool though if shops had like a massive marketing build-up, then were open for like 2 hours a week (say 7pm-9pm on a Friday)
big party, big sales - bam in 1 go. Heaps of hype. Then the rest of the time it was hours like normal.

Could add bit of enthusiasm etc
When I was in car sales we did just that at one of our yards, once a month we'd have a huge 'behind the wall' weekend. First few were incredible, sold more units in 2 days then in an entire month. But the flipside was that the rest of the month was just dead, with only the odd out-of-towner buying, or locals checking out the stock and asking 'how much will this be in the sale, and this one, and that one?". You could tell them that you'd sell it to them now for a $1 and they'd still say they'll come back during the sale to see if it was cheaper. Then the enthusiasm for the sales died as well, and that was the end for that promo. Despite the deals still being the same or if not better, and us still putting on a party atmosphere people just became very complacent about it all.

bittertwistedcute

26th March 2010, 12:03

Farken hell I don't get some of you guys!!! Do you want to be massaged and given a warm bath and a cup of cocoa or something when you go to a shop?

Yes actually I do

avgas

26th March 2010, 13:01

How about a naked party. Come naked and get 10% off.
You could also give a discount

Brian d marge

26th March 2010, 13:56

A few things I have noticed here ( I think) One view is of the bike shop in the traditional mode of tyres plugs etc the other is a coffee /cafe style and with one shop going sort of half way
Bikes are a commodity which mean the market decides the price and someone will be doing it cheaper hence the slim profits ,,,,
niche markets MAY be sustainable in larger centres or or farmers in smaller centres but to turn over the stock needed to employ one or two people , Im reaching for a magic wand here

Its not just bikes , My friend ran a tuning shop in Hungary until a few weeks ago , importing stuff from Hk tuning here in Japan ( the fast and the furious type stuff) , market dead , closed shop.

I sat down and looked at the state of play ( and still do ) in order to find out my price points and the maximum number of people with those price points
Helping people with their leisure time seems to cross a few boundary's , but I cant put my finger on one thing that will pay for my gasoline in the Rolls Royce
Tis a tricky one this ,

Stephen

SS90

26th March 2010, 20:24

Wouldn't it be cool though if shops had like a massive marketing build-up, then were open for like 2 hours a week (say 7pm-9pm on a Friday)
big party, big sales - bam in 1 go. Heaps of hype. Then the rest of the time it was hours like normal.

Could add bit of enthusiasm etc

It has been tried, but as one arm bandit mentioned, it "gets old", and after a few weeks, when you look at the figures, you make the same business as months before the later hours.

What's the gain?

The same money for more work and more hours.

It's too much to ask of the staff.

Opening form say 1pm to 8pm...... no wholesalers are open (they have office hours), you can't register a new bike (LTSA is closed), you can't arrange insurance (office hours), or finance (office hours). you see what I mean, the opening hours are not dictated by "mean arsed arrogant bike shop types", it's dictated by the market, and the industries that support it.

IF (for example) a shop ONLY sold accessories, nothing else (like bikes I mean), and therefore did not have limitations of requiring "support" industries (insurance, registration etc) then PERHAPS they could operate as people here suggest.

You have to work in an industry before you can judge it.

SS90

26th March 2010, 20:26

If you've dealt with Graham you'd understand. I had the wonderful experience of working for him...

Ha, yea Graham was "old school" alright (Tommy Mcleary too)

Big Dog

26th March 2010, 22:16

Dagnamit - I can't go and change the OP.

After yet another response from a KBer who couldn't be arsed to read past the first post I thought I 'd go and edit it to correct the Sunday mistake and to tell them to stop damn well replying to the OP in a thread that has had over 500 RESPONSES TO IT!

FFS don't people realise that they should at least have the courtesy to read to the end if they really feel the need to post on the flipping thread.

Dagnamit dagnamit dganamit - rant over.

Some times I am just too incensed by what I see to not rant on.

Forgive me if you feel slighted because I responded to your post. Perhaps you should either not post something that is so inflamatory (as evidenced by the 500 posts) or just sigh quietly, unsub from the thread and ignore the quote notices you get on this subject.

IdunBrokdItAgin

26th March 2010, 22:51

Some times I am just too incensed by what I see to not rant on.

Forgive me if you feel slighted because I responded to your post. Perhaps you should either not post something that is so inflamatory (as evidenced by the 500 posts) or just sigh quietly, unsub from the thread and ignore the quote notices you get on this subject.

Okey Dokey,

No personal slight taken - just miffed that posters can't be arsed to read past the opening post before posting an opinion on a thread. A thread evolves through its posters. A poster, who doesn't read through a thread before replying to said thread, resets the thread back to the opening post.

In simple terms: Don't get arsey with me for getting annoyed by your lack of thoroughness. Please feel free to post replies to old posts which mean nothing to the current stage of the thread.

Why?, please astound me by posting such a simplistic answer to the OP that the other 500+ responses meant nothing.

FOR THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE DOING - you dismiss every other posters respsonse by not reading them and posting your own - it is not about my ego but about yours.

R-Soul

29th March 2010, 08:01

I will keep this simple
Deus Ex Machina..... I bought lunch, took photos, and bought a t-shirt. Lucky I didn't have have $30K burning a hole in the back pocket or else I would have also walked out with a bike. Also I paid PREMIUM for all the items I bought ($50 for lunch, $60 for t-shirt)......
Prob the only thing I miss from Sydney.

I went there after reading about it here. its nice in an arty kind of way. Buts is not a buike shop or bike goods shop. Yes, it sells the odd retro look bike as rideable "art" , but it did not have serious bike kit. Even the leather jackets sold there did not have armour in them.

It is a themed boutique (admittedly with nice clothes) witha coffee shop on the side. They had a large screen TV, and lots of space for various themes, and a glass window onto the workshop, showing the (very clean and tidy) workshop. Nice idea - chuck in dyno and TV screens showing outputs...could be reeaaal cool.

But if these guys can afford this as part of their business selling normal clothes (in an out of the way area for normal public walk through), surely bike accessory shops can do it when their customers have a burning desire for a new item of gear/bike?

I wanted to take my wife there for coffee (and as an excuse to check out gear etc) . Didn't make it this time, but will probably do so in the future. Just a pity they did not have real kit...

avgas

29th March 2010, 08:11

I went there after reading about it here. its nice in an arty kind of way. Buts is not a buike shop or bike goods shop. yes it sells the odd retro look bike as rideable "art" , but it did not have seruious bike kit. even teh l;eather ackets sold there did not have armour in them.
It is a themed boutique (admittedly with nice clothes) witha coffee shop on the side. They had a large screen TV, and lots of space for various themes, and a glass window onto the workshop, showing the (very clean and tidy) workshop. Nice idea - chuck in dyno and TV screens showing outputs...could be reeaaal cool.
But if these guys can afford this as part of their business selling normal clothes (in an out of the way area for normal public walk through), surely bike accessory shops can do it when their customers have a burning desire for a new item of gear/bike?
I wanted to take my wife there for coffee (and as an excuse to check out gear etc) . Didn't make it this time, but will probably do so in the future. Just a pity they did not have real kit...
I completely agree with everything you said.
But you walked into the store didn't you. You walked into a boutique themed store - for what reason?
Could this be adapted to a more bike orientated store?
So one could assume that the old rules don't apply any more it seems?
I still don't buy the "I didn't work in the past - so it won't work now" mentality of shops in NZ. Fact of the matter is the game has changed in the last 20 years....and I think there is huge potential for increase in the bike industry in NZ
Imagine how popular red bull would be if they just sold a sugar drink?
Who would go to starbucks if they just sold filter coffee?
Who wants to go to bike shop that is closed when you get time off and only sells the same old gear?

R-Soul

29th March 2010, 15:35

SS90

29th March 2010, 22:14

Just to clarify, this "boutique" store didn't get any business from you, but you are going to take your wife in for a look?

Big Dog

29th March 2010, 22:26

In my considerably less than humble opinion it was a great place to go an look at some interesting things and have a coffee until all the "trendy" types started going.
If you don't know who I mean then you are one of them.
The kind that have a latté and ignore the bikes or give them a distain filled look. Then proceed to sit as far from anyone with riding gear as possible. It is great interacting with the other helmet bearers and talking to those who "once had a bike you know way back...".
Still is interesting to look at lot of the curios and reading material. Just now I know better than to go during peak times.

Sure is funny to see that we get better service when we are all geared up than when we went in the car.

R-Soul

30th March 2010, 09:57

Just to clarify, this "boutique" store didn't get any business from you, but you are going to take your wife in for a look?

Thats right. I am prolly not their target market for boutique clothes (i.e. munter), and I did not have time for coffee - although I hear its good (from upselling from their salespeople). I would prefer to spend money on bike gear.

The point is that they GOT ME IN. And I am not even their target market.
And will prolly get me in there again, with wife in tow.
Now if they offered decent gear, I would be pushing to go every other weekend.

SS90

30th March 2010, 10:12

Now if they offered decent gear, I would be pushing to go every other weekend.

Do you buy bike gear "every other weekend, or just look?

Ixion

30th March 2010, 10:17

Oh yes, it got me in there, and will probably get me in there again, just to show my wife. But a real bike store with decent gear would get me there much more often.

Something done really well would even encourage me to take my visiting family members there, to show them what a cool store we have...

Those in the demographic they have targeted would say the gear is 'decent'. They aren't concerned about armour in leathers. Likewise, they have lots of crash helmets. But not a full face in sight.

The people running it know their business- they have identified a market, and are supplying to that market.

But, someone could take the same model - replace the non-armoured leather jackets with toothpaste suits, the retro helmets with Shoeis and the cafe-racer accessories with racing stuff, and the Goldie with a Gixxer, and it would work just as well then for sprots bike riders. It's the business model that is the key, not the stock. Identify a market: identify what that market is willing to pay good money for: make it a pleasant experience for that market to buy .

merv

30th March 2010, 12:20

I like it that this thread is still going but note that (I presume out of respect for the closed shops and their business model) no one posted anything here over the weekend lol.

DMNTD

30th March 2010, 13:00

I like it that this thread is still going but note that (I presume out of respect for the closed shops and their business model) no one posted anything here over the weekend lol.

...or maybe they were out RIDING :shifty: :scooter::moon::blip:

Headbanger

30th March 2010, 13:11

...or maybe they were out RIDING :shifty: :scooter::moon::blip:

In winter?

Madness.

Hiflyer

30th March 2010, 13:13

...or maybe they were out RIDING :shifty: :scooter::moon::blip:

Na mate that's impossible, Half the people on Kiwibiker seem like they spend more time bitching on the net as oppossed to riding.

Murray

30th March 2010, 13:41

...or maybe they were out RIDING :shifty: :scooter::moon::blip:

Or out shopping!!!!!

DMNTD

30th March 2010, 14:01

Or out shopping!!!!!

I know I'd rather go riding being a motorcyclist and all ;)

Murray

30th March 2010, 14:29

I know I'd rather go riding being a motorcyclist and all ;)

Friday night bought some new bike pants from "living the Dream" who work from home. Previous Friday night went to Quasi's with friend and bought jacket & Friend bought 2 sets of gloves. Sunday I had some dosh to spend and went up sh22 to the bikes bbq and blues festival. hoping for sale items there, but no go. Me and missus can't get to bike shops mon-sat 8.00 to 6.00pm so "shopping" limited to Sundays and hometraders. (Don't buy clothing over internet)

R-Soul

30th March 2010, 15:04

Do you buy bike gear "every other weekend, or just look?

I buy coffee and breakdast every other weekend, but love looking at bike gear a lot. And every now and then I buy.

I have the full set of gear, from a wide variety of places. Two piece leathers, a cordura jacket, gloves x2 ,boots, helmets x3. but myself,. like most have built this up over time. I do not drive a Porsche and can just walk into a shop and kit myself out from head to toe, no. Very few people here could. The question is WILL I IN THE FUTURE?

Your tone of an "exasperated salesman waiting for people with real money to come in" is not appreciated by me nor probably your customers. Do you know of ANYBODY (short of pro riders) that buys gear "every other weekend"? Because lets face it, once you have the assortment of kit required for your chosen ride, (maybe twenty pieces of gear- maybe forty- whatever?) it does tend to last a while (unless you crash a lot).

But you are not JUST trying to get people like this through your doors, you are trying to get as many fans of the shop through your doors as possible, and keep them fans. So that WHEN they want to buy gear, they go to you. And when they are looking and comparing, it is not a neccessary EVIL (as you seem to think of it) because you can sell them coffee and toasted sandwiches until they are ready. You should think of the time in between when customers are looking as the chance to forge relationships with them -not 'screen' them.

Most of us are quite brand loyal, and I love my Hondas, but I'll be fucked if I will buy a Honda from a tosser of dealer that frankly treats me with disrespect because I dont have $30k to throw at him right NOW, while I am checking out my options. I would rather ride to Hamilton and buy one there. Loyalty goes a long way, disrespect even further.

R-Soul

30th March 2010, 15:17

And at the moment I have my eye on a number of different accessories that I am keen on-and that are affordable to me, but that I am still looking around for. Things like:

- Back protector (cheapest $60 so far)
- additional armor for hips/shins (about $100)
- LED running lights for my bike (seen for $80)
- indicator warning buzzer ($60)
- racing gloves ($140 - 300)'
- bike intercom system (150)
- gps (?)

The range of prices for small things like this is probably about $20 up or down. No big deal. I am sure that there are a lot of riders with small requirements like this. These are small things, but when you add up these over a number of riders, there are a lot of sales to be made.

Will I go to the shop that is dull and dreary where you cannot get service, or the shop with the most excitement about it? You figure it out.

Yes some of these requirements will be internet sales based on price alone, but a lot arent because I LIKE going into bike shops and shopping around.