Police killing us again!

[twotyred]

or perhaps how far did the cop move it after the impact?.... I'm sure that will come out in the "investigation'........

[peasea]

Me.
Today
10 times in 40 seconds
Then I got giddy and stopped
Because it was too dangerous

That's called planetary rotation ya knob. You get giddy coz you're so close to the South Pole.

[steve_t]

I'm sure the fact that the police car appears to have been shunted around by about 90 degrees will be given due consideration.

How do you know it was actually shunted? Were there skid marks from the tyres? The officer might have been at some part through the 3 point turn and tried to bail out or something else. Facts are slim currently and most info is just conjecture and speculation. It may be some time before more facts are released

[peasea]

Call me a cynic but I am sure "evidence" will be found to show the bike was speeding.

Found? nah, they don't need to find evidence, they 'create' it.

[98tls]

Just watched the segment 3 News,the older gentleman implying the bike was flying doesnt really help at all,Honda 4s etc with a 4/1 many many years ago sounded like they were doing warp speed when they were not at all though ive no idea what this guy was riding.

[Ixion]

How do you know it was actually shunted? Were there skid marks from the tyres? The officer might have been at some part through the 3 point turn and tried to bail out or something else. Facts are slim currently and most info is just conjecture and speculation. It may be some time before more facts are released

In fact, it's been turned through more than 90deg, more like 135deg. If a Holden can be hit hard enough by a bike (weighing maybe 1/6th of it's own weight) to move it like that, and yet sustain only relatively minor panel damage, then Holdens must be made of very tough steel indeed.

BTW, these 'facts' that are going to "come to light", where do folk suppose they are going to come from.Only independent investigation will be the coroner, and he'll be relying on what's fed to him by the Police Whitewash Authority. Only "facts" that will be willingly produced will be those that blag the rider and the ute driver.

[miloking]

And ?.......

And?...you should join them because you sound like you would fit right into the police force!

hypocratic "keyboard warrior" yourself....who likes to throw personal insults on people based on their opinions on retarded online forum!

[peasea]

Just watched the segment 3 News,the older gentleman implying the bike was flying doesnt really help at all,Honda 4s etc with a 4/1 many many years ago sounded like they were doing warp speed when they were not at all though ive no idea what this guy was riding.

Ya have to wonder if the old geezer hadn't already been 'spoken to' by police.

[peasea]

In fact, it's been turned through more than 90deg, more like 135deg. If a Holden can be hit hard enough by a bike (weighing maybe 1/6th of it's own weight) to move it like that, and yet sustain only relatively minor panel damage, then Holdens must be made of very tough steel indeed.

BTW, these 'facts' that are going to "come to light", where do folk suppose they are going to come from.Only independent investigation will be the coroner, and he'll be relying on what's fed to him by the Police Whitewash Authority. Only "facts" that will be willingly produced will be those that blag the rider and the ute driver.

I'm outta bling, bugger.

[98tls]

Ya have to wonder if the old geezer hadn't already been 'spoken to' by police.

Na mate, makes you wonder if the old geezer hadnt already been spoken to by police.:shifty:Possibly they relocated him from somewhere else ,house and all.

[twotyred]

they started damage control early: every press release mentions this rider as a "former racer", thereby starting the meme that he was bound to be speeding.
I wonder if the car had been hit by a young mother would they say: Jane Doe,former show-jumper....

[mattian]

its just a fucking tragedy all round. For the biker and his family and even, (dare I say it) the cop. He knows that he fucked up, and now he has to live with what he has done. Nobody involved in all of this mess will ever be the same. It should never have happened and it reminds all of us just how vulnerable you are when on a bike.

[peasea]

Na mate, makes you wonder if the old geezer hadnt already been spoken to by police.:shifty:Possibly they relocated him from somewhere else ,house and all.

They can work fast when protecting their own.....

[98tls]

they started damage control early: every press release mentions this rider as a "former racer", thereby starting the meme that he was bound to be speeding.
I wonder if the car had been hit by a young mother would they say: Jane Doe,former show-jumper....

Theres always a conspiracy theory.:shifty:

[sinfull]

Ok Mr Rocket scientist. Police sit around with radar guns and speed cameras, chase drivers at all cost while other crime appears unabated. Yup people are right now screaming foul for some "Police" to protect their arses.


And ?....... Bwahahaha ooooo a red rep OMG Were you planning on asking a question terbong ? IQ ? Get a grip lol


And?...you should join them because you sound like you would fit right into the police force!

hypocratic "keyboard warrior" yourself....who likes to throw personal insults on people based on their opinions on retarded online forum!Hahahaha they wouldn't have me cause i'm a zombie dick wad:shit: oooo is that one of them personal insults on a retarded forum bwahahaha
I threw said personal insult because you felt a nerve touched just like terbong huh ? Keyboard warrior who would cower like a beaten dog if things went bad for him perhaps !

No i aint cop material milo lol but i aint preparing for a war against zombies either bwahahahahahahaha

No you bitch and moan, bury your weapons for the empending doom all you like, i made my point ! You can go back to your discosed tv now !!

[Chrislost]

What exactly are you pissed off about the fact that the motorcyclist died or the fact that it was a cop doing a u-turn that caused his death?People in cars have been killing motorcyclists a long time and generally theres no "the sky is falling" reaction on here followed by pages of discussion in fact most times theres no mention.Cant personally see any reason for this thread other than the fact a cop was involved,given the number of cars driven by Joe Public compared to those driven by cops then methinks your barking up the wrong tree.Dead is dead,needless is needless no matter what the occupation of the car driver.
If those ment to "guide" us cannot get it right, what chance does a mere mortal have...

[Shadows]

Can you work out the gradient of that road just by looking at the picture?

Fuckssakes.

It it was blind, he shouldn't have done a U turn there.

It if was not blind, what the fuck possessed him to pull a U turn in front of an oncoming vehicle?

Fuckwit.

[Bald Eagle]

Fuckssakes.

It it was blind, he shouldn't have done a U turn there.

It if was not blind, what the fuck possessed him to pull a U turn in front of an oncoming vehicle?

Fuckwit.

Just watched this on One News, thats not a rise it's a bloody hilltop FFS

[scumdog]

They can work fast when protecting their own.....

The old geezer was a cop?:shit:

Who'd a thunk it..:blink:

[miloking]

Hahahaha they wouldn't have me cause i'm a zombie dick wad:shit: oooo is that one of them personal insults on a retarded forum bwahahaha


Nope those are not personal insults...thats all just good fun, dont mind that at all



Keyboard warrior who would cower like a beaten dog if things went bad for him perhaps !!


This on the other hand is unnecessary! Since you dont know me at all...



No you bitch and moan


I never said i didnt...i hate cops with passion and this is online forum so yeah...bitch a moan is the right thing to do here if you didnt notice!

[dmoo1790]

This makes my blood boil. Regardless of any contribution to the accident by the biker the root cause was a cage driver doing a dumb thing. He could easily have made the turn in a safer location but just didn't think it through and now someone is dead. Had a dick in a Mini do a u-turn in front of me around a blind corner many years back. I walked away but my bike didn't. It just comes down to thinking and a bit of patience from the cage driver. Yeah, right! Not going to hold my breath waiting for that.

[PrincessBandit]

Tragic, but since I can't be fagged reading 18 pages worth of (I'm guessing, predominantly "pig bashing", interspersed with some sensible unbiased comments) posts. Has anyone asked what speed the rider was doing? Honestly, if ya gonna red me for being curious and prepared to ask then bring it on. There has been no suggestion that the rider was doing anything wrong, and I'm not saying he was; but experience and ability don't automatically mean goody-two shoes rider who mightn't be tempted on what they assume will be a nice quiet road to have a bit of a blat. Just a possibility, which anyone honest would admit to.
How about seeing what comes out of the investigation before jumping on the kiwibikerkangaroocourt all-pigs-are-bike-killers bandwagon.

[steve_t]

Tragic, but since I can't be fagged reading 18 pages worth of (I'm guessing, predominantly "pig bashing", interspersed with some sensible unbiased comments) posts. Has anyone asked what speed the rider was doing? Honestly, if ya gonna red me for being curious and prepared to ask then bring it on. There has been no suggestion that the rider was doing anything wrong, and I'm not saying he was; but experience and ability don't automatically mean goody-two shoes rider who mightn't be tempted on what they assume will be a nice quiet road to have a bit of a blat. Just a possibility, which anyone honest would admit to.
How about seeing what comes out of the investigation before jumping on the kiwibikerkangaroocourt all-pigs-are-bike-killers bandwagon.

Sorry, PB. It's already been asked so probably not gonna get any reds today. Nobody is speculating anything at the moment with regards to this

[Bikemad]

I'm sure the fact that the police car appears to have been shunted around by about 90 degrees will be given due consideration.

its called the Doughnut effect......................

[bogan]

Tragic, but since I can't be fagged reading 18 pages worth of (I'm guessing, predominantly "pig bashing", interspersed with some sensible unbiased comments) posts. Has anyone asked what speed the rider was doing? Honestly, if ya gonna red me for being curious and prepared to ask then bring it on. There has been no suggestion that the rider was doing anything wrong, and I'm not saying he was; but experience and ability don't automatically mean goody-two shoes rider who mightn't be tempted on what they assume will be a nice quiet road to have a bit of a blat. Just a possibility, which anyone honest would admit to.
How about seeing what comes out of the investigation before jumping on the kiwibikerkangaroocourt all-pigs-are-bike-killers bandwagon.

Yeh it has been asked, though getting an answer would be very difficult, it's been suggested that the police manipulate crash forensics figures (i've heard of examples of that), tbh though, looking at the pics where he did the u-turn, I can't see how this is anything less than a negligence causing death charge (or whatever the proper legal term is)

[sinfull]

This on the other hand is unnecessary! Since you dont know me at all...! Think we've met !




I never said i didnt...i hate cops with passion and this is online forum so yeah...bitch a moan is the right thing to do here if you didnt notice!Wasn't originally aimed at you directly man, but i do get the shits with cop bashers, and you bit ! FFS i aint a saint but i don't hate em, I get a ticket or busted for anything, chances are i've done it lol Hello !!!!

[Robert Taylor]

Thats why we are not called Kiwithinker...

More like roving sharks! Too many have accorded judgement and I cannot help but think that some of it is a ''us and them'' mentality. Were they all there at the scene witnessing the tragic fatality as it unfolded ?

Is it guilty until proven innocent or innocent until proven guilty?

[Indoo]

based on their opinions on retarded online forum!

Maybe you could just leave us 'retards' as welll as this retarded forum and go some place where your intellect and education might be more appreciated?


BTW, these 'facts' that are going to "come to light", .

Still waiting for your facts and figures Ixion, but I completely agree it will be yet another cover-up by this cops buddies and he will get off scott free, much like the Buller Gorge cop.

[miloking]

Think we've met !

Did we? but iam much more polite in person so how do you know its me...(cant be warrior without my keyboard :D)



but i do get the shits with cop bashers, and you bit ! FFS i aint a saint but i don't hate em, I get a ticket or busted for anything, chances are i've done it lol Hello !!!!

I dont pay attention to them until they do something stupid... since i would be in jail already if i did uturn and killed someone.

and recently i had some bad experience with them so i guess this is just built up frustration since i know that probably nothing realy bad will happen to this cop...and yes i cant do jack shit about it!

[98tls]

More like roving sharks! Too many have accorded judgement and I cannot help but think that some of it is a ''us and them'' mentality. Were they all there at the scene witnessing the tragic fatality as it unfolded ?

Is it guilty until proven innocent or innocent until proven guilty?

Cant expect much more really,1/2 the posters on here probably spend saturday nights tagging buildings in oversize pants and baseball caps on backwards then during the week when mum wont let them out they climb in here and impart there motorcycling wisdom,dashing off to squeeze zits between posts.

[scumdog]

I never said i didnt...i hate cops with passion and this is online forum so yeah...bitch a moan is the right thing to do here if you didnt notice!

Well shee-it, ya have a whole lot of them on this site to hate, lucky you eh!

[Elysium]

http://i.imgur.com/W7Uj7.jpg

[peasea]

The old geezer was a cop?:shit:

Who'd a thunk it..:blink:

You know exactly what I mean......don't be so southern.

[peasea]

Cant expect much more really,1/2 the posters on here probably spend saturday nights tagging buildings in oversize pants and baseball caps on backwards then during the week when mum wont let them out they climb in here and impart there motorcycling wisdom,dashing off to squeeze zits between posts.

You've seen their arses?
Hmmm....

[Swampdonkey]

Shame on that policeman....shame. RIP to a fellow rider

[peasea]

its called the Doughnut effect......................

Double meaning brilliance.

[Skinon]

More like roving sharks! Too many have accorded judgement and I cannot help but think that some of it is a ''us and them'' mentality. Were they all there at the scene witnessing the tragic fatality as it unfolded ?

Is it guilty until proven innocent or innocent until proven guilty?

Um if you've ever been through the fucked up court system we have, you'll know its guilty until proven innocent. I think regardless of the bikes speed no one pig or person should be stupid enough to do a u-turn where they cant see for exactly this reason!
He should be slapped with a dangerous driving causing death charge. Im pretty bloody sure thats what they would slap on me. And i havent had thousands of taxpayer dollers spent on me to improve my driving safety and technique.

He needs to be held accountable and made an example of for his idiocy which resulted in the death of another human.

[Katman]

Only independent investigation will be the coroner, and he'll be relying on what's fed to him by the Police Whitewash Authority.

As opposed to the KB Motorcyclist Whitewash Authority?

[peasea]

As opposed to the KB Motorcyclist Whitewash Authority?

Insert 'Police' after KB

[98tls]

As opposed to the KB Motorcyclist Whitewash Authority?

At least theres a fair chance that the Police Whitewash Authority are actually policeman,methinks theres plenty on here lurking behind keyboards that have ownership of nothing but virtual motorcycles.Still, no doubt they have escaped the rego hike.

[sinfull]

Did we? but iam much more polite in person so how do you know its me...(cant be warrior without my keyboard :D)



I dont pay attention to them until they do something stupid... since i would be in jail already if i did uturn and killed someone.

and recently i had some bad experience with them so i guess this is just built up frustration since i know that probably nothing realy bad will happen to this cop...and yes i cant do jack shit about it! No you prob can't do nothin about it ! Just like the thousands of other drivers that do the same shit !
I won't say this cop should be treated any different (i hope he does get nailed for it) and yes i believe they will close ranks around him !
Wouldn't you hope your "team" would, if there were ever a truce in the war against the zombies lol and you made a stupid error of judgement ?

Your Avatar ? which track day ?

[Mudfart]

as far as my experience with corruption, coverups at work go, if he is a difficult, cheeky or annoying work collegue, he will face the wrath.
If he is valued and respected by the senior officers and his personal folder is in the "keeper" pile, he will be exhonerated.

[98tls]

Um if you've ever been through the fucked up court system we have, you'll know its guilty until proven innocent. I think regardless of the bikes speed no one pig or person should be stupid enough to do a u-turn where they cant see for exactly this reason!
He should be slapped with a dangerous driving causing death charge. Im pretty bloody sure thats what they would slap on me. And i havent had thousands of taxpayer dollers spent on me to improve my driving safety and technique.

He needs to be held accountable and made an example of for his idiocy which resulted in the death of another human.
When your done with that crystal ball pass it on eh,wouldnt mind knowing next weeks lotto numbers.

[SPman]

...........heard on the radio today quoting the mr tooman cop sayin the officer involved is a veteran cop who has worked tirelessly to reduce the road toll...........
Ahh - so he works in vehicle research, does he, devising things like ABS, stability control, crumple zones, airbags, vehicle dynamics, decent tires and suspension, road construction and all those other things, which helps to bring down the road toll...........ooops.....silly me....those things have had NOTHING to do with it......it's all the rozzers tireless hard work, hounding motorists
...looking for a scapegoat..is that like a mountain goat?

[miloking]

No you prob can't do nothin about it ! Just like the thousands of other drivers that do the same shit !
I won't say this cop should be treated any different (i hope he does get nailed for it) and yes i believe they will close ranks around him !
Wouldn't you hope your "team" would, if there were ever a truce in the war against the zombies lol and you made a stupid error of judgement ?

Your Avatar ? which track day ?

yep you are right iam just a normal tax paying slave citizen...unfortunately just a second grade compared to anyone working for any kind of enforcement goverment agency.
and i get so angry that they preach to me about safety each time iam stopped for..."incorrectly mounted plate or 114km/h or whatever" and then "this" happens again and instead of formal appology to the family of the biker and promise of unbiased investigation all that happened was snarky cop spokesman starting to soften the public up by making the deceased sound like "racer" and "speeder"!!!

SHOW SOME FUCKING RESPECT NZ POLICE!!!!

Sometimes i think...if you cant beat them, join them...but i would rather cut my balls off than that!


anyway on different topic altogether...picture is from taupo few months ago, but you probably saw me in pukekohe or hamptons since iam from Auck.. (what do you ride? i usualy remember bikes not peoples faces :D..um maybe because we wear helmets,lol)

[Robert Taylor]

What if the ''biker'' had been a policeman? Would it have been ''job well done'' taking out a policeman?
Theres some seriously scary ''us and them'' mentality going on here.

[miloking]

What if the ''biker'' had been a policeman? Would it have been ''job well done'' taking out a policeman?
Theres some seriously scary ''us and them'' mentality going on here.

No matter how i answer you probably wont belive me....but for all thats worth, i would react almost the same.
innocent biker dead because dumbass made illegal uturn!!! Regardless of what his job was....

Also you would see different kind of investigation, his head would be a fair game as nobody kills a cop and gets away with it...not even one of their own!

[phill-k]

The cop car was travelling in the same direction as the biker, .

Not sure about that if you look at the photo the damage to the car is on the rear left side around the rear wheel, if the car had done a "U" turn in front of a following car I would have thought the damage would be to the drivers side.

[Kiwi675]

Cops been going up the hill and the car doing 154 is going the other way, he's done a u-turn at the brow of the hill and the bike has come over the hill, tried to avoid the cop by going to the other side of the road but no time and has collected the back corner of the car and spun it around to its resting position.

[Dodgey Dave]

Once again a cop has made an unsafe u-turn and the result is a dead motorcyclist.
The police seem to have no regard for other road users once they have a target in their sights. The red mist takes over and they hastily make unsafe u-turns to go in pursuit of someone doing 112km/h!

This last incident involved a cop doing a u-turn on double yellow lines and just before the crest of a hill??
Is it really worth killing people in the pursuit of a motorist to issue a $60 fine?
I thought the job of the Highway Patrol is Road Safety but time and time again all we see is the cops driving extremely dangerously to collect revenue.

Something has to be done about this.

[sinfull]

(what do you ride? i usualy remember bikes not peoples faces :D..um maybe because we wear helmets,lol)
Cant really hide in my helmet lol !! But perhaps not as i've been absent from taupo track days for the last few months, on a comeback road now lol ! The name Milo rang a bell is all !

Was on a speed three but now it's a 675 track bike !!!

Ya can't save the world from cops who fuck up Milo, sorry i interupted ya vent ! As ya were !!!

Then if ya look at it cops prob join up thinking they might be able to save the world and look at the number that perffed out when they could ! I wouldn't want their job for either Nutt !

[mattian]

where have you been? http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/122146-Police-killing-us-again!

[quickbuck]

Not to mention the Speeding ute was alledgidly doing 154k.

Still, a silly place to attempt a U-Turn.

[puddytat]

From what I saw on the TELLY, not only did he do a stupid manoeuvre in a dumb fucking place ,HE ALSO IGNORED THEDOUBLE YELLOW LINES.......:oi-grr::nono:

[98tls]

Whilst your out there "doing something about this" you might like to take care of the other 99% of motor vehicle drivers that kill motorcyclists.

[Dodgey Dave]

This cop will probably do the same as the cop down south and perf out of the force with a nice big pay out rather than face tPolice Disaplinary action.

Once again the red mist has taken over and the cop is fixated on his target of a speeding motorist (probably doing 112km/h) and therefore forgets all basic road rules. How many more times does this need to happen before the police change their policies.

[miloking]

Cant really hide in my helmet lol !! But perhaps not as i've been absent from taupo track days for the last few months, on a comeback road now lol ! The name Milo rang a bell is all !

Was on a speed three but now it's a 675 track bike !!!

Ya can't save the world from cops who fuck up Milo, sorry i interupted ya vent ! As ya were !!!

Then if ya look at it cops prob join up thinking they might be able to save the world and look at the number that perffed out when they could ! I wouldn't want their job for either Nutt !

Ohh luxury of having dedicated track bike :D and not even jap bike like rest of us peasants, i wish...mine has to be commuter,weekend posser, and trackbike at the same time, haha

and no, i wouldnt want to have their job either....but when i say "their" i mean the minority of cops who are realy out there to make world better place (i've met two in last 10 years and believe me i get the opportunity to "chat" quite often ;)

who knows maybe this dumbass was also good guy and just seriously fucked up...i guess we will never find out.

[Toaster]

The cardinal sin (yet again) of doing shit in a blind spot...
How many times/investigations must there be, before a clear instruction is given..."Do not stop or turn without several hundred metres clear road in both directions"

It's called instruction "common sense".

[Katman]

This cop will probably do the same as the cop down south and perf out of the force with a nice big pay out rather than face tPolice Disaplinary action.

Once again the red mist has taken over and the cop is fixated on his target of a speeding motorist (probably doing 112km/h) and therefore forgets all basic road rules. How many more times does this need to happen before the police change their policies.

Wow, you really have your finger on the pulse, don't you?

[miloking]

Whilst your out there "doing something about this" you might like to take care of the other 99% of motor vehicle drivers that kill motorcyclists.

yep but cops first because, they spend awful lot of time preaching about safety and i have to watch retarded TV adds for money from my taxes!!
....have you even been told off for doing 114km by non-indicating asian student with L plates, or housewife reversing out of driveway in people mover without looking out of windows? I guess not so...i expect those to be bad drivers and menace to cyclists and bikers.

[Renegade]

i feel sorry for the dead guy and his family, it sux, it is the reality of riding though, out for a blat and them wham, its happened to most of us, severity varies obviously.

I would like to know if any member of the public that caused a serious crash has had to pay 30k in reparation to the victim of their crash, because thats what the last cop that knocked those two bikers off had to pay.

Id hedge my bets that NO member of the public would be stung 60k in total for reparation and loose their job on top of it.

For instance if your local council worker crashes the company car whilst at work, cause serious injuries to two bikers, would they get stung 60k reparation and loose their job? not a chance aye, but a cop gets that, Fair? fuck no.

This cop in this new crash clearly fucked up, and you know hes hurting right now, hes certainly lost his job, and hes in for hell for some time and at the end of the deserves it, basic driving stuff up, but like others have said human error.

Its a game of odds, they spend all day on the road, doing U turns and the like all the time 1 in 10,000 rolls of the dice are going to end bad.

i still would like to see fair treatment for all, regardless of vocation.

[sinfull]

Ohh luxury of having dedicated track bike :D and not even jap bike like rest of us peasants, i wish...mine has to be commuter,weekend posser, and trackbike at the same time, haha

and no, i wouldnt want to have their job either....but when i say "their" i mean the minority of cops who are realy out there to make world better place (i've met two in last 10 years and believe me i get the opportunity to "chat" quite often ;)

who knows maybe this dumbass was also good guy and just seriously fucked up...i guess we will never find out. Think you might find we will ! Heard mention he was a 35 yr mot man so, A/ not a young hot head but a seasoned traffic cop and B/ not a wanna be traffic cop who's just come off a beat in the CBD !
I'd put money on the guy being in tears today !

[Guzzinut]

Certanly sounds like Buller gorge and makes it even dummer if he was lookin at the brow of the hill and did a U Turn with all the specialist driver training, but supporting officer says he was doing the same manouvre he's been doing for years, sounds like its only a matter of time before someones luck ran out.
Adrenilin and the thrill if the chase take over and I guess, I wonder if he ceased the chase just before impact. U TURNS should be illegal as they are in some countries,

[scumdog]

This last incident involved a cop doing a u-turn on double yellow lines and just before the crest of a hill??
Is it really worth killing people in the pursuit of a motorist to issue a $60 fine?

A $60 fine for 145km/h?

Boy, some people have been charged waaay too much..............

[SPman]

Is it guilty until proven innocent or innocent until proven guilty? ..increasingly....it's becoming a "guilty until proven innocent" society...from both directions.

[Foxzee]

Wow, you really have your finger on the pulse, don't you?

At least someone has a pulse..the family of Paul would right now be giving anything to get his back....

[Jonno.]

i feel sorry for the dead guy and his family, it sux, it is the reality of riding though, out for a blat and them wham, its happened to most of us, severity varies obviously.

I would like to know if any member of the public that caused a serious crash has had to pay 30k in reparation to the victim of their crash, because thats what the last cop that knocked those two bikers off had to pay.

Id hedge my bets that NO member of the public would be stung 60k in total for reparation and loose their job on top of it.

For instance if your local council worker crashes the company car whilst at work, cause serious injuries to two bikers, would they get stung 60k reparation and loose their job? not a chance aye, but a cop gets that, Fair? fuck no.

This cop in this new crash clearly fucked up, and you know hes hurting right now, hes certainly lost his job, and hes in for hell for some time and at the end of the deserves it, basic driving stuff up, but like others have said human error.

Its a game of odds, they spend all day on the road, doing U turns and the like all the time 1 in 10,000 rolls of the dice are going to end bad.

i still would like to see fair treatment for all, regardless of vocation.

Jesus Christ, human error? It's someone's life you fuck wit.
There are other people than cops who drive for a living and none of them expect to kill anyone or even have an accident.
When you sign up to enforce traffic you kindof have to take the high ground in that you're a well educated driver with specific training, highly unlikely to cause an accident, much less a fucking stupid one like this.

60k and he loses his job boo fucking hoo someone lost their life.

[BikerDazz]

Jesus Christ, human error? It's someone's life you fuck wit.
There are other people than cops who drive for a living and none of them expect to kill anyone or even have an accident.
When you sign up to enforce traffic you kindof have to take the high ground in that you're a well educated driver with specific training, highly unlikely to cause an accident, much less a fucking stupid one like this.

60k and he loses his job boo fucking hoo someone lost their life.

Dead right mate.

Condolences to the family and friends of the rider, my thoughts are with you.

[98tls]

Think you might find we will ! Heard mention he was a 35 yr mot man so, A/ not a young hot head but a seasoned traffic cop and B/ not a wanna be traffic cop who's just come off a beat in the CBD !
I'd put money on the guy being in tears today !

Absolutely,and plenty more days to come i would imagine.In his time hes no doubt done a lot of good and no matter wether hes found guilty/innocent of yesterdays actions fact is this will be a burden he will carry for the rest of his life.Theres no winners in this,its just bloody sad for all concerned.

[sinfull]

Crazy steve !!! Crazy steve where are you lol come out whereever you are ! Cat got ya tongue lol oooo red means ya love me hahahaha wooohoooo i touched your nerve today too aye hahahahahahaha god i love my life right now !! You must be feeeeeeling so low about this moment in time aye haha gixerracer chaser for one lap lol !!!

[chrispy121]

firstly this saddens me deeply that some one has needllesly lost their life.
In the road code and law it is illegal to overtake on a double yellow line maybe the police standards committe should create rules like no u turns on double yellow lines with out 100 metres clear visibility? that would have avoided the accident maybe

[Damantis]

Safer communities, together.

[Foxzee]

Crazy steve !!! Crazy steve where are you lol come out whereever you are ! Cat got ya tongue lol oooo red means ya love me hahahaha wooohoooo i touched your nerve today too aye hahahahahahaha god i love my life right now !! You must be feeeeeeling so low about this moment in time aye haha gixerracer chaser for one lap lol !!!

OI..big boy...now this is left field.....hahahaha

[miloking]

Safer communities, together.

And dont forget to blow on the pie :D

[sinfull]

OI..big boy...now this is left field.....hahahaha Haha prob end up in PD but what the hell, he'll read it ! Quoted me in another (motott 1st of may) thread and big noted himself a little ! But to bring it on topic, i'd say he's just a cop hater who hate's me right at this moment lol and i aint even a cop !
You know i'd quite happily eat humble pie if he wanted to give (and gave) me the learn on the track ! But to stalk me and red rep me for saying this MOT cop will prob be in tears about what happened, then i will quite happily publicly show him as the fool he is !

[candor]

The cardinal sin (yet again) of doing shit in a blind spot...
How many times/investigations must there be, before a clear instruction is given..."Do not stop or turn without several hundred metres clear road in both directions"

Instruction was given after the October 2009 police complaint authority inquiry my org Candor long pressured for. Radio NZ said they doubted Police would reform and so did I as they are at the bottom of the speed greed chain. For revenue more MCs die & riders.

The ignored key recommendation was to avoid chasing youth and MCs as MCs more vulnerable and dying too much in chases I was over the moon at the recommendation but it is flouted with bloody results daily. Stop cop!

But the Police felt it necessary to conduct their own review after Goddards and decided to ignore the sound independent recommendations. Quota pressure, but I saw a small retreat from this as my fave target Paula Rose admitted on news last night that 120,000 learner licence infringements a year is not reall achieving much. Oh except about 50 million... it seems Police may finally have the penny dropping re the misuse of their talent within a web set to max income, but the Economists like Joanne Leung at MoT just won't remove the performance pressure or environment to create highest quota fishing luck.

ANOTHER TRAGIC POLICY DEATH - i say boycott all traffic fines until a review is granted, 1/3rd already go unpaid - make it 100%.
See here for the background to the road safety chaos which some have familiarity with - http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1004/S00195.htm
The only thing to do is erect a memorial to quota death stupidity and victims (donations sought) so the Govt can't continue to fudge and deny a National disgrace, the dead need dragging out in a central place to have impact - scattered crosses aren't communicating the scale.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Art/Other/auction-284871620.htm
See here regarding Road Trauma Day 17th August - all welcome to patake in honk a thon protest paying or otherwise. If you pay towards a National memorial to remind the Govt of its failure you get a cool certificate to put in the lou! Goal is 50G

October 2009 IPCA Police Pursuit Review - we worked long to get this!

MEDIA RELEASE: IMMEDIATE USE
AUTHORITY RECOMMENDS CHANGES TO POLICE PURSUIT POLICY

The Independent Police Conduct Authority has recommended that Police
amend their pursuit policy to provide clearer guidance to officers on
when a pursuit should be started.

The recommendation is contained in a Review of Police Pursuits, released
today. The review analysed 137 pursuits that were reported to the
Authority during the five years to 19 December 2008. During that period,
24 people died and 91 received serious injuries in Police pursuits.
About 2000 pursuits take place each year.

Most of the 137 pursuits were started over traffic offending, though 31
were started over known or suspected criminal offending (mostly car
conversion and other property offences). Relatively few pursuits
uncovered evidence of serious crimes other than those associated with
the offender's driving during the pursuit.

Most of the pursued drivers were young men, many of whom were unlicensed
or disqualified and had records of traffic or other offending.

"Pursuits can begin over relatively minor offending, or general
suspicion, and end in serious injury or death," said Authority Chair
Justice Lowell Goddard. "In such cases, the benefits from pursuing and
stopping an offender do not appear to have outweighed the risks.

"In our view, the Police pursuit policy could provide clearer guidance
for officers on when they may pursue. We have recommended that they
reconsider the policy, and have suggested that the risk to public safety
from not stopping an offender should be the principal factor justifying
a decision to pursue."


Contact:
Bernard Steeds, 0272 237 643

CONTENTS OF THIS MESSAGE ARE NOT SUBJECT TO THE LEGAL RULES OF DISCLOSURE=20

[Renegade]

Originally Posted by Jonno
"Jesus Christ, human error? It's someone's life you fuck wit.
There are other people than cops who drive for a living and none of them expect to kill anyone or even have an accident.
When you sign up to enforce traffic you kindof have to take the high ground in that you're a well educated driver with specific training, highly unlikely to cause an accident, much less a fucking stupid one like this.

60k and he loses his job boo fucking hoo someone lost their life."

#####

firstly, im not a fuck wit.

Secondly, if it wasnt human error, what would you call it?

Thirdly, the crash i referred to was not a fatal

Did you know that 60% of crashes in the Taupo district involve trucks aka professional drivers, of those 80% are fatalities....

[Indoo]

Have you met Milo Candor? Reckon you two would get along great.

[miloking]

Guys did you read this: http://www.3news.co.nz/Default.aspx?TabId=423&articleID=151811&ce2637=1#comment

probably old news but what realy gets me is this bit:

Local resident and past motor racer Frank Wilkin heard the incident form his home and says the motorbike was travelling at a fast speed.

I heard this motorbike coming and thought, ‘Wow, that’s travelling fast,’ and as it came I heard just a fraction of a movement, deceleration and then this boom,” he says

Who the fuck is 3news to twist shit like that....also no offence Mr. Wilkin the Motor racer, i am impressed at your hearing abilities to recognize speeding vehicle merely from doppler effect!!! You should work for Police, you would be uselful so we would save taxpayers money on lazer guns!

[miloking]

Have you met Milo Candor? Reckon you two would get along great.

Does he hate arrogant power-trippy cops? iam sure we would :D

[Foxzee]

Haha prob end up in PD but what the hell, he'll read it ! Quoted me in another (motott 1st of may) thread and big noted himself a little ! But to bring it on topic, i'd say he's just a cop hater who hate's me right at this moment lol and i aint even a cop !
You know i'd quite happily eat humble pie if he wanted to give (and gave) me the learn on the track ! But to stalk me and red rep me for saying this MOT cop will prob be in tears about what happened, then i will quite happily publicly show him as the fool he is !

Well I no ya ain't a cop lol......and yeah humble pie...I no you would eat that...lmao...baggin of you sux

To topic...it's a nightmare for family and friends.....police etc...and no one's tummy is going to sit right with any humble pie!

[98tls]

Human error eh,all things said and done with a lifetime of being human old people should be the best drivers out there,can anyone post up the stats on the carnage they cause?

[candor]

Once again a cop has made an unsafe u-turn and the result is a dead motorcyclist.
I thought the job of the Highway Patrol is Road Safety but time and time again all we see is the cops driving extremely dangerously to collect revenue.

Something has to be done about this.

It is obvious what - the AA, Akilla and Candor Trust have been begging for years - full review of quotas. They are damn well illegal in Ohio for exactly these reasons and shoud be here. With them there can never ever be road safety. This is bigger than just MCs - little children on school crossings are getting hit by quota racers.

[Marknz]

RIP Paul


.......

[peasea]

Does he hate arrogant power-trippy cops? iam sure we would :D

Have Patrick over for dinner.

[scumdog]

firstly this saddens me deeply that some one has needllesly lost their life.
In the road code and law it is illegal to overtake on a double yellow line maybe the police standards committe should create rules like no u turns on double yellow lines with out 100 metres clear visibility? that would have avoided the accident maybe

There were DOUBLE yellow lines at the scene?

[Indoo]

Does he hate arrogant power-trippy cops? iam sure we would :D

No but both you and Candor seem to share the same hatred for the English language and the education system in this country. I'm no Hitcher nor is my grammar and spelling flash, but this barely understandable text speak crap and you and Candor spam is just painful.

[98tls]

Theres really only one answer.At the very least the "human error" factor could be 1/2d.

[miloking]

There were DOUBLE yellow lines at the scene?

Not double yellow, so i guess he deserved to die then...or what is your point officer?

[Old Steve]

Tragic. But this is the result of two mistakes.

The policeman just shouldn't have made his turn there, or indead turned - he was never going to catch the speeding ute himself. However, Paul was supposedly chasing the ute so must have been doing around 150 km/hr too.

You don't expect to come over a hill and find a Policecar doing a three point turn over a double yellow line on a narrow country road, but you do have to consider that there may be idiots out there who aren't going to think before doing something stupid.

[rocketman1]

RIP Paul -
I was nearly taken out in my car when travelling through Te Kauwhata about 4 years back, I had to swerve hard to miss this cop doing a U turn in front of me. Gave me a hell of a fright.
I have previously started a thread about cagers doing U turns. It pisses me off to see this has happened again.
I feel very sorry for his family.
I get the feeling that police see a speeding car, all else seems to blinkered out. They see red and just give chase no matter what.

I saw the news tonite and where this officer turned around, on top of a rise, was in my opinion bloody stupid.


The police force should not let this happen again. U turns are one of the most dangerous manoeuvres anyone can do on the road.

There should be strict training given to officers about completing a U turn.
This training or refresher training is not working.

[scumdog]

Not double yellow, so i guess he deserved to die then...or what is your point officer?

Just trying to follow all the facts on KB...they are all facts these posts I've been reading, aren't they?

[scumdog]

..........................

Time to view some re-runs of Shorland Street, more real than most of what my eyes see here..later dudes.....

[candor]

Indoo keeps demanding Ixion produce evidence of especial MC victimisation. The evidence is both on the street for anyone to see and in the findings of the Goddard report. Try reading it in full instead of accusing me of spamming - it contains the info you are in denial of. Funny how strong a position you take on issues that are actually valid re Police. Was that too texty for you to understand?

[miloking]

No but both you and Candor seem to share the same hatred for the English language and the education system in this country. I'm no Hitcher nor is my grammar and spelling flash, but this barely understandable text speak crap and you and Candor spam is just painful.

I am sorry, I will not let that happen again sir. I know its not an excuse but unfortunately I do not posses superior officer training to master the intricacies of English language like you do!

[Spearfish]

Did the rider hit the car the instant it did the U turn or did he come over the brow that was just as blind for him as it was for the cop and hit what was then an obstruction?
I'm not wording it very well but also I'm not trying to be provocative.

There is just something so wrong that consequences of a such a simple act of thoughtlessness on the part of the driver can end a life, and is worse that this time it was a cop.

[miloking]

Just trying to follow all the facts on KB...they are all facts these posts I've been reading, aren't they?

Oh yeah they are, have you seen my "safety graph" thats straight from Statistics NZ.... :D

[rastuscat]

teaching my son to drive at the moment, followed a cop around the Sockburn roundabout. I'm telling my son to indicate left to turn off the roundabout as we watch the cop in front taking the same direction as us WITHOUT indicating. Not the crime of the century, but not the first time I've witnessed this. These people are supposedly the enforcers of the rules of our roads, and they don't seem to know the rules themselves. Are they just lazy (mmmm, donuts).

Most Police cars are not traffic cars. So please don't assume that every cop car is driven by someone who cares about the traffic rules. Most are driven by someone thinking about the next damn domestic, the next shoplifter, the next burglary or the next stolen car.

[miloking]

Most Police cars are not traffic cars. So please don't assume that every cop car is driven by someone who cares about the traffic rules. Most are driven by someone thinking about the next damn domestic, the next shoplifter, the next burglary or the next stolen car.

Of course,all traffic cops are in unmarked maximas....its better for revenue that way. I guess the "real police" drive in real police cars...funny though i remember getting ticket for not indicating once (cost me $150, but thats ok i was menace to society) and it was a "real police" car?? How do you explain that mystery?

[steve_t]

Most Police cars are not traffic cars. So please don't assume that every cop car is driven by someone who cares about the traffic rules. Most are driven by someone thinking about the next damn domestic, the next shoplifter, the next burglary or the next stolen car.

Is it true that the ones with orange are crime or whatever, and the ones with yellow are traffic?

[Smifffy]

23 pages of dross, and I wasn't able to post, but I do have some thoughts on the issue, now that i have a minute.

1. RIP Paul, and condolences to those immediately affected.

2. I expect that the officer involved will be haunted by this for many years to come. I believe he should be.

3. "A veteran who has worked tirelessly to reduce the road toll", sounds to me like media/PR speak for "A Robocop who maxes out his quota every month at any expense". Some expense this month.

4. I am judging this particular officer. Every day every police officer makes an instant judgement on everybody they come across as they carry out their duty. A judgement as to whether the individual presenting is a worthy human being, or one that requires intervention of the judicial system. Sound judgement is therefore a pre-requisite of the job. This officer did not display sound judgement at all (IMO).

5. The police force is made up of highly trained professionals. IMO they need to maintain professional standards, pulling a turn such as this is not professional. Scrawling illegibly on an infringement notice is not professional, yet it is defended rigourously by the force. Assaulting a nutter in the holding cells for a prolonged period with pepper spray. These actions send a message to the public at large that the police are neither professional, nor fair, nor just as a matter of course. They clearly hold themselves accountable to a different (and it would appear lower) standard of behaviour than the rest of the community. In a professional organisation I would expect for colleagues to be saying things such as "For this to happen, it's likely there would have been a breach of protocols/procedure" , not just "Tragedies will sometimes occur"

6. Mistakes do sometimes happen, the wrong person gets shot, because a marksman's aim isn't as good as could be expected, etc. If you want to hold a position whereby you judge the quality of driving of others, and enforce that standard to the absolute limit, then you must also be able to adhere to that standard At all times yourself. I've personally followed a speed camera van that was doing 120 km/hr down a country road, after he knocked off for the day.

7. This is a tragic case, and I can assure you right now, that if in the course of my work duties, someone got injured, to the extent that they were unable to attend work the following day, much less killed, then I could expect to be the the focus of some pretty intense investigation. My employer would most likely also do their utmost to prove that the correct systems and procedures were in place, and that I had been suitably trained. For some reason, that they can't fathom, I had chosen not to do the right thing on the day. For some reason though, the police would rather close ranks, and prefer to be all tarnished by the actions of a few dickheads.

[michael]

Most Police cars are not traffic cars. So please don't assume that every cop car is driven by someone who cares about the traffic rules. Most are driven by someone thinking about the next damn domestic, the next shoplifter, the next burglary or the next stolen car.

So those who enforce the rules shouldn't set an example by obeying the rules?

[Smifffy]

Most Police cars are not traffic cars. So please don't assume that every cop car is driven by someone who cares about the traffic rules. Most are driven by someone thinking about the next damn domestic, the next shoplifter, the next burglary or the next stolen car.

So traffic rules don't figure then?

It shows.

[rastuscat]

Is it true that the ones with orange are crime or whatever, and the ones with yellow are traffic?

No. That policy changed a couple of years back, and all new cars in the last couple of years are lemons, not oranges.

[candor]

I don't believe in mistakes. His judgement was impaired - maybe fatigue, maybe drugs, maybe feeling the quota pressure.
The big picture is that the Police have a culture which accepts some frequent risk taking in order to chalk up daily quotas.

As was earlier said in the thread the instant respect losing spin Doctoring is to work overtime to deflect blame, shift blame to the victim if at all possible, and raise esteem and sympathy of the prima facie culprit in the public mind.

Within this ther is never any attempt to pinpoint and deal with the real causes (too precious for scrutiny) or to do the decent thing and quickly express regrets to the family, and apologies once the serious crash investigation confirms Police responsibility. Police never hesitate to share credit from their heros but when someone or their culture is in the wrong they refuse in general to dea honestly with that. Belief seems to be that this would diminish mana when the opposite is true.

Bottom line - road mutilation and road homicide is a long term disaster with effects likely still felt 50 years on. It's not yesterdays news.

[rastuscat]

So those who enforce the rules shouldn't set an example by obeying the rules?

Of course they should, like everyone else.

[rastuscat]

So traffic rules don't figure then?

It shows.

Of course they figure. Remember that most cops are just people who believe the same thing that most of the population does, and drive accordingly.

[rustic101]

Is it true that the ones with orange are crime or whatever, and the ones with yellow are traffic?

The fleet livery (colours) are slowly being replaced with yellow, blue and silver hi vis as new vehicles are bought into service. The intent was/is to ensure the public are kept guessing - hence your question are they or aren't they a traffic unit????

[Smifffy]

Of course they figure. Remember that most cops are just people who believe the same thing that most of the population does, and drive accordingly.

Not according to the sample of cops I've seen

[Indoo]

Indoo keeps demanding Ixion produce evidence of especial MC victimisation.

No I didn't, I asked Ixion for the facts and figures behind his claim that there was an endemic of Police killing motorcyclists at a high rate, which he doesn't and can't answer because he made it up.

Maybe you can educate us as to how many motorcyclists have been killed by Police and the relevance of the Goddard report in relation to this?

[98tls]

I don't believe in mistakes. His judgement was impaired :shit:Fuck me,finally.Always thought if i spent enough time on here one day i would surely meet god:Punk:With shit like that i reckon your mother made a mistake."i dont believe in mistakes":rofl::rofl::killingmeThe best yet.

[Smifffy]

No I didn't, I asked Ixion for the facts and figures behind his claim that there was an endemic of Police killing motorcyclists at a high rate, which he doesn't and can't answer because he made it up.

Maybe you can educate us as to how many motorcyclists have been killed by Police and the relevance of the Goddard report in relation to this?

A high rate? How many of us have they killed in the last 12 months? Isn't that enough? What do you consider an acceptable number, as collateral damage in the fight to keep the road toll down?

[98tls]

A high rate? How many of us have they killed in the last 12 months? Isn't that enough? What do you consider an acceptable number, as collateral damage in the fight to keep the road toll down?

Jesus H,i can smell the glue from here.Why not change your screen name to Sniffy.

[candor]

No 98, she was killed by someone... who was not making a mistake. It was not an accident or mistake but a crash, as the peson was impaired by drugs and fatigue. Which means it had a cause - which means it was not a mistake. Just like this case. You do not make "mistakes" like u turns in front of people, or take gambles going through intersections. Especially when you understand the risks well. These sorts of acts aren't human errors any more than a Dr operating on a wrong person, they are caused by something so had to happen. If we pretend it was just a mistake we'll never identify causes and never prevent such things in future.

We don't send criminals to jail for mistakes - and I'm sure the crash investigators don't have mistake on their checklist.

[Smifffy]

Jesus H,i can smell the glue from here.Why not change your screen name to Sniffy.

So you don't think this situation could be improved by the acknowledgement of a problem, and remedial actions?

How many bikers per year do you think it's acceptable to kill in the course of traffic enforcement?

[Rhino]

TBH, that's the way I have learnt I *have* to ride to survive. Even if I am just pootling down to the supermarket. Unfortunately sometimes we have to accept that we are much more vulnerable than most other road users and ride or take our chances accordingly.

Str8Jacket, I don't often agree with your posts, but I also always ride covering my front brake (and clutch after riding lots of 2 strokes in my teens.) That half a bike length less stopping distance could be the difference between an ambulance ride and saying "shit, that was close."

[Indoo]

A high rate? How many of us have they killed in the last 12 months?

Outside of this incident and say in the last 100 or so years err none? Of course you can and I'm sure will produce the evidence and examples that say otherwise right?

During the past 100 or so years how many riders have been killed through their own lack of skills, training or mistakes, cage drivers who just didn't 'see' them or criminals and repeat drunk drivers?

It's a bit of a shame that the actual causes of death don't seem to create the same level of hysteria nor do you see the same commentators slagging off the Police lamenting them.

[candor]

Indoo this was provided under the OIA but they forgot to separate driver/rider and passenger/pillion. Bronz needs to get this and the trend. It's clearly positive given Goddards key recommendation related to MCs.

Table 3
Casualties (killed & injured) in ''Evading Enforcement' crashes by road user type, 2002 to 2008
(chases up 2-3x with harm following introduction of resource allocation quota model)

Driver------ Passenger ------ Pedestrian------ Pedal Cyclist
521------------ 269----------- 19 ------------------- 5 ------- --- Total 814

And like the victim many victims were not the pursued,

Age----------- Pursued----------------------------not pursued
unknown---------------41-------------------------7
0-14--------------------36--------------------------7
15-19------------------234------------------------27
20-24------------------150-------------------------9
25-39---------------------145-----------------------58
40-59-------------------39--------------------------41
60+---------------------0----------------------------20
Total--------------------------------------------------814
Wonder which age group the victim was in.

[riffer]

No I didn't, I asked Ixion for the facts and figures behind his claim that there was an endemic of Police killing motorcyclists at a high rate, which he doesn't and can't answer because he made it up.

Maybe you can educate us as to how many motorcyclists have been killed by Police and the relevance of the Goddard report in relation to this?

Speaking of education Indoo... one thing about your posts is irritating me.

en·dem·ic

/ɛnˈdɛmɪk
–adjective Also, en·dem·i·cal. 1. natural to or characteristic of a specific people or place; native; indigenous: endemic folkways; countries where high unemployment is endemic.

2. belonging exclusively or confined to a particular place: a fever endemic to the tropics.

I think you mean EPIDEMIC:

ep·i·dem·ic

/ˌɛpɪˈdɛmɪk/
–adjective 1. Also, ep·i·dem·i·cal. (of a disease) affecting many persons at the same time, and spreading from person to person in a locality where the disease is not permanently prevalent.

2. extremely prevalent; widespread.


–noun 3. a temporary prevalence of a disease.

4. a rapid spread or increase in the occurrence of something: an epidemic of riots.

[Smifffy]

Outside of this incident and say in the last 100 or so years err none? Of course you can produce the evidence and examples that say otherwise which I'm sure your going to do to avoid looking like a fool.

During the past 100 or so years how many riders have been killed through their own lack of skills, training and mistakes, cage drivers belonging to the 'general public' not seeking them or recidvist criminasl and drunk drivers?

It's not me that looks foolish after this post.

Yes there have been plenty of bikers killed through other means as well, and that's why ACC levies have been increased. We all know the answer is not "none" and yet the very agency tasked with improving conditions on the road for law abiding bikers, wipes some out in a few seperate, isolated incidents, and refuses to address the issue?

[Headbanger]

Righto, I asked around and a 300KG mass, traveling at 100km an hour would hit a stationary object at


F = ((36*300) - (0*300))/0.5
=21600N, or roughly equivalent to a weight of 2200kg

So yeah, Big fuckin impact, and hell yes the car would get a hell of a shunt. You can scale that weight to reflect the true value of the bike and rider and its still a big impact that will certainly move the car.

[riffer]

And to add my opinion:

Yeah, it looks bad. For all concerned.

I'll wait for the results of the inquiry thanks.

[98tls]

So you don't think this situation could be improved by the acknowledgement of a problem, and remedial actions?

How many bikers per year do you think it's acceptable to kill in the course of traffic enforcement?

Stupid question,why such a song and dance when a cop fucks up and nothing about when anyone else does,truck drivers/elderly/young people blah blah blah.All this crap about "there supposed to know better/there supposed to guide us "wtf,If motorcyclists on here cared as much about stupid driving and needless deaths as they profess to on here then every time any motorist fucks up and a motorcyclist dies there would be an uproar,they dont.

[riffer]

Righto, I asked around and a 300KG mass, traveling at 100km an hour would hit a stationary object at


F = ((36*300) - (0*300))/0.5
=21600N, or roughly equivalent to a weight of 2200kg

So yeah, Big fuckin impact, and hell yes the car would get a hell of a shunt. You can scale that weight to reflect the true value of the bike and rider and its still a big impact that will certainly move the car.

You've forgotten to allow for the car moving as well, and potentially the shock of the impact causing the driver to put their foot on the accelerator in surprise.

[Katman]

Righto, I asked around and a 300KG mass, traveling at 100km an hour would hit a stationary object at


F = ((36*300) - (0*300))/0.5
=21600N, or roughly equivalent to a weight of 2200kg

So yeah, Big fuckin impact, and hell yes the car would get a hell of a shunt. You can scale that weight to reflect the true value of the bike and rider and its still a big impact that will certainly move the car.

Are you suggesting that the motorcyclist made no attempt to scrub off any speed at all?

[Smifffy]

Stupid question,why such a song and dance when a cop fucks up and nothing about when anyone else does,truck drivers/elderly/young people blah blah blah.All this crap about "there supposed to know better/there supposed to guide us "wtf,If motorcyclists on here cared as much about stupid driving and needless deaths as they profess to on here then every time any motorist fucks up and a motorcyclist dies there would be an uproar,they dont.

Because the police force, like any employer or workplace, is required to maintain policies & procedures to prevent harm being caused to innocent parties, through the undertaking the course of their duties.

Stop bogarting the Ados, and pass it round.

[breakaway]

It's real unfortunate that it wasn't a bus that came over the brow at 110 and collected the pig.

[puddytat]

Just seen it on the news again & from one direction there seems to be 2 yellow lines, then the other shot shows one...so mustbe leading into, or out of a double yellow zone.....

[Fluffy Cat]

It's real unfortunate that it wasn't a bus that came over the brow at 110 and collected the pig.
Best troll yet. Even if you meant it.
Your rep is on the way......hehe.

[Jonno.]

Just watched nightline where they interviewed a "motoring expert" local resident who claims the motorcycle was speeding by his hearing where TV3 tried to spin it as biker again at fault.

Formal complaint on the way you fuckers.

[Smifffy]

Why is this case any different? Because the driver was a police officer? Because there was somebody else to blame? (the ute driver)

Why?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/court/3590122/Tourist-to-pay-reparation-over-fatal-crash

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10636612

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/cycling/news/article.cfm?c_id=31&objectid=10634419

[quickbuck]

"motoring expert" .

Apparently he was a motor racer himself..... Not in an event that google knows about as far as I can see....

[miloking]

Just watched nightline where they interviewed a "motoring expert" local resident who claims the motorcycle was speeding by his hearing where TV3 tried to spin it as biker again at fault.

Formal complaint on the way you fuckers.

YEP i already commented on that! Fucking 3news....they are like NZ version of Fox news.

[miloking]

http://www.3news.co.nz/Probe-into-motorcyclist-struck-killed-by-cop-car-/tabid/423/articleID/151684/Default.aspx

"Road policing is all about preventing road trauma. Unfortunately the nature of our business is such that from time to time tragedies do occur.

"It is now a priority for us to ensure a thorough investigation is completed not only for the deceased's family's peace of mind, but for that of the public and our own staff."

Yes you (Mr Tooman ) used the word business correctly because thats exactly what this revenue collecting is! Fucking Business!!!

Also nobody gives a flying rat about your staff and their peace of mind!

[Indoo]

Speaking of education Indoo... one thing about your posts is irritating me.

Thats nice, but it was Ixions endemic of dereliction which I was referring to.


It's not me that looks foolish after this post.?

Yeh it still is, just list the Bikers killed by Police since the inception of the force in this country, it surely shouldn't be hard?

[Headbanger]

Are you suggesting that the motorcyclist made no attempt to scrub off any speed at all?

I'm suggesting nothing of the sort, I have no more information about what happened then what you do.

I'm suggesting that riding a bike at a legal speed into a car could result in a physical impact of 21600N.

[miloking]

Yeh it still is, just list the Bikers killed by Police since the inception of the force in this country, it surely shouldn't be hard?

Why just bikers? Other people killed by cops dont count?

[eelracing]

Why is this case any different? Because the driver was a police officer?


In a word...yes.

Because the police are supposedly proffessionals and in light of recent events involving u-turning chase scenarios and there highlighted fuckups,the police should have been issued new directives in regard to lack of visibility when having to perform this manoeuvre.

If directives were'nt issued then we should be demanding why.

If they were issued then why was a so called respected cop of 35 years experience totally ignoring it?

And why did an innocent man pay for it with his life.

[Kornholio]

Aaaand......

[miloking]

Aaaand......

yep get on as well, there is some room left at the back :D

[Jonno.]

Are you suggesting that the motorcyclist made no attempt to scrub off any speed at all?

In ideal conditions he would have had less then 25 meters braking time at 100km/h.

[Fluffy Cat]

Thats nice, but it was Ixions endemic of dereliction which I was referring to.



Yeh it still is, just list the Bikers killed by Police since the inception of the force in this country, it surely shouldn't be hard?
Just to interject ever so slightly here......
I was directly involved in the medical aspects of the Buller Gorge not the police's fault "accident".
Without sounding to pompous one of those guys very "very" nearly did die in the OR. Some serious intervention was required.
So no not dead but I think close enough for some serious thought into Police actions in these situations.
Unfortunately I was then witness to the same again on Atawhai Drive in Nelson involving a VW car.
Is it worth it?.......
Not really. Been there done that job. As one of my instructors said "there are sometimes ones that get away, it's just the way it is. Let it go"
Wise words.
This whole thing is quite sad, TV3 seem to want to point the bone already. Poor family and friends

[Kornholio]

yep get on as well, there is some room left at the back :D

After reading nearly 400 posts of experts analyzing how my mate died I think I'll walk...

[miloking]

After reading nearly 400 posts of experts analyzing how my mate died I think I'll walk...

For all its worth, I would like to offer my condolences, i never lost a friend especialy this way so I cannot imagine how you must feel.

and sorry for joking in my previous post...

[Conquiztador]

And really sucks to be the family of the biker.

[puddytat]

I & everyone else in this thread feels for the family....thats why folk are passionate about this topic because in one way or another it touches us all.
Big love to family & friends, our hearts are with you all.

[cold comfort]

[QUOTE=98tls;1129723931]What exactly are you pissed off about?

The directive to the cops that "thou shalt pursue' for ANY speed infringement no matter what. The bloody myopic focus on speeding per se. That the gubbermint is too cheap to spend our road taxes on driver training and decent roads instead of distraction with red herrings

[Jdogg]

and further from the nz herald article "However, Carl Jackson, of Jackson Engineering, where Mr Brown worked part-time, told the Herald Mr Brown had been following his ute as the pair headed to their respective homes after spending time at a friend's house on Sunday afternoon. When asked if he had been speeding, Mr Jackson said he "might have been".
He said he didn't know if it had been him police had started to chase, but as he returned to town he "saw the ambulance speeding past" and figured something had happened.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10639521

[Spearfish]

Its all just a set of dominoes tipping over one by one until the last one stops..
Guy buys a bike and goes for a ride on Sunday in a "recreational" manner turns off an intersection and gives it a bit of a nudge.....
Cop turns up for work, goes to line up and gets the crash figures and given his "task" for the day, heads off and spots a cager at well over the limits and turns...
Cager is doing a quick run home, probably kids or other family in the back, turns off the intersection and gives it the same nudge he always does...ahh shyt...cop..
hits the picks and looks in the mirror..no cop.....phew got away with that one....
KB members are hurt by the info that another biker is down and how needlessly a life ended and rip into the cops, blind spots, speed, professional standards, anything at all to make sense for themselves about the crash....
While the cager (first) domino still carries on..no questions asked...no standards checked...no risk of not ever doing it again.....
I think we are all getting it wrong, those using the roads and those trying the save those users, literally from themselves.

[denill]

Just to interject ever so slightly here......
I was directly involved in the medical aspects of the Buller Gorge not the police's fault "accident".
Without sounding to pompous one of those guys very "very" nearly did die in the OR. Some serious intervention was required.
So no not dead but I think close enough for some serious thought into Police actions in these situations.
Unfortunately I was then witness to the same again on Atawhai Drive in Nelson involving a VW car.
Is it worth it?.......
Not really. Been there done that job. As one of my instructors said "there are sometimes ones that get away, it's just the way it is. Let it go"
Wise words.
This whole thing is quite sad, TV3 seem to want to point the bone already. Poor family and friends

And after all this - and in spite of the horrific history, Toolman said:
Leo Tooman said road policing was all about preventing road trauma. "Unfortunately the nature of our business is such that from time to time tragedies do occur."

[oldrider]

And after all this - and in spite of the horrific history, Toolman said:
Leo Tooman said road policing was all about preventing road trauma. "Unfortunately the nature of our business is such that from time to time tragedies do occur."

I'm afraid Toolman comes across as being well named......time for him to go IMHO!

[Pixie]

Inspector Leo Tooman on TV1 last night: "We do thousands of these turns a year"
No wonder they have such a tragic reputation.

He forgot to mention the speeding driver was on th' drugs,raping a granny and eating a freshly cooked baby's arm at the time the cop spotted him and had to be stopped at all costs.

[denill]

Inspector Leo Tooman on TV1 last night: "We do thousands of these turns a year"
No wonder they have such a tragic reputation.

He forgot to mention the speeding driver was on th' drugs,raping a granny and eating a freshly cooked baby's arm at the time the cop spotted him and had to be stopped at all costs.

Yeah, that sums it up. :mad:

[PrincessBandit]

Guys did you read this: http://www.3news.co.nz/Default.aspx?TabId=423&articleID=151811&ce2637=1#comment

probably old news but what realy gets me is this bit:

Local resident and past motor racer Frank Wilkin heard the incident form his home and says the motorbike was travelling at a fast speed.

I heard this motorbike coming and thought, ‘Wow, that’s travelling fast,’ and as it came I heard just a fraction of a movement, deceleration and then this boom,” he says

Who the fuck is 3news to twist shit like that....also no offence Mr. Wilkin the Motor racer, i am impressed at your hearing abilities to recognize speeding vehicle merely from doppler effect!!! You should work for Police, you would be uselful so we would save taxpayers money on lazer guns!
So just because the "witness" doesn't fit with how you'd like the facts to be you just slag him off? Were you in the vicinity yourself to verify that this "witness" is talking shit?


RIP Paul -
I was nearly taken out in my car when travelling through Te Kauwhata about 4 years back, I had to swerve hard to miss this cop doing a U turn in front of me. Gave me a hell of a fright.
.....................................
I get the feeling that police see a speeding car, all else seems to blinkered out. They see red and just give chase no matter what.

..............The police force should not let this happen again. U turns are one of the most dangerous manoeuvres anyone can do on the road.

There should be strict training given to officers about completing a U turn.
This training or refresher training is not working.
Well, despite having to take evasive action, you managed to walk away with "a hell of a fright". I'm sure the police do have strict U-turn rules, but like any other driver on the road can make poor choices which also end tragically for other people. I love how people here seem to think that the police should be incapable of making the same kinds of road errors that mere mortals do frequently.


Did the rider hit the car the instant it did the U turn or did he come over the brow that was just as blind for him as it was for the cop and hit what was then an obstruction?
I'm not wording it very well but also I'm not trying to be provocative.

There is just something so wrong that consequences of a such a simple act of thoughtlessness on the part of the driver can end a life, and is worse that this time it was a cop.
OMG, isn't the whole "ride as though you do NOT know what is just outside of your line of vision" thing being forgotten here? How often do we drive or ride (yes, those of us who ride are just as guilty of doing this) assuming that the road ahead, which we can't actually see, is clear of any obstacles. It only takes tiredness, distraction, cockiness, blinking to get a grain of dust outta ya eyes and all sorts of things can go down the toilet fast. Everyone is in the same boat; and if you're het up about the more serious consequences for bike riders, get off two wheels. (ps spearfish, that last comment wasn't aimed at you, it just happened to be in my reply following your qoute, not personal to you).

[Pixie]

There was one they quoted in the article - think it was the young guy who the cops then turned around and charged and he had a hell of a fight on his hands to prove he was not at fault.

Another sad case, regardless of the circumstances. If the cop hadn't been doing the U-turn, it's unlikely this rider would have died. It will be interesting when the full facts come out to see exactly how far from the brow of the hill the cop was and how fast the rider was estimated to have been going and all the other factors that need to be taken into account here before blame can be apportioned.

There have been several.One near Meremere in front of a truck that I can recall,plus I witnessed a near miss u-turn across 3 lanes of heavy traffic near the Marsden Pt turn-off in order to go after a slow moving truck.

[Pixie]

Allowing adrenaline & excitement to take control of their senses is dangerous. These people are "trained professionals" (I use that term EXTREMELY LOOSELY), PAID to take control of situations in a cool, calm and SAFE manner - in their line of work - out of control adrenaline & excitement is fatal!

My sympathies are with his family and friends!

Just imagine if they ever become ARMED

[Pixie]

It's still not the cops fault for killing someone unless the police vehicle has a collision with another vehicle. If cops didn't chase criminals, then every second criminal would be robbing banks all day long knowing that they won't get caught. Vehicle theft would increase dramatically as well, as would almost every other crime. Murderers, rapists and kiddy fiddlers would have a field day. Great idea isn't it!

Such bullshit!
The cops recently caught a gang of 5 bank and jewelery store robbers.No chase was involved,just investigation and early morning visits to where the crims lived.

As for: "It's still not the cops fault for killing someone unless the police vehicle has a collision with another vehicle." - If I goad psych patients into jumping off tall buildings,am I in anyway responsible for their deaths?

[FROSTY]

they started damage control early: every press release mentions this rider as a "former racer", thereby starting the meme that he was bound to be speeding.
I wonder if the car had been hit by a young mother would they say: Jane Doe,former show-jumper....
Or suggests as it does to me that he's not some red misted knob jockey out for a hoon but is a rider of some experience

[Spearfish]

OMG, isn't the whole "ride as though you do NOT know what is just outside of your line of vision" thing being forgotten here? How often do we drive or ride (yes, those of us who ride are just as guilty of doing this) assuming that the road ahead, which we can't actually see, is clear of any obstacles. It only takes tiredness, distraction, cockiness, blinking to get a grain of dust outta ya eyes and all sorts of things can go down the toilet fast. Everyone is in the same boat; and if you're het up about the more serious consequences for bike riders, get off two wheels. (ps spearfish, that last comment wasn't aimed at you, it just happened to be in my reply following your qoute, not personal to you).[/QUOTE]

I think you made the point my ramblings fumbled.
If we are all honest there are times we ride a path that we think should be there, rather than one we know is there.

[candor]

No trend huh? Good on Dom post
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/national/3599019/Police-U-turn-death-spurs-review-call
But as I said before we had this review - in October 2009.

[marty]

Has the driver of the ute come forward yet?

[Pixie]

Email sent to Joyce and Collins:


Dear Ministers

When will you ensure police officers have the skills and intelligence to drive safely on New Zealand roads and not just act like dogs that have spotted a rabbit?

Or will you just put up the ACC levy on motorcycle licenses to cover the cost of the motorcyclist killed by the police officer this weekend?

Yours sincerely

Pixie

[Mom]

Has the driver of the ute come forward yet?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10639521

[rachprice]

Or suggests as it does to me that he's not some red misted knob jockey out for a hoon but is a rider of some experience

I too have the same thoughts, but unfortunately for the people that don't ride probably don't have the same insight

I wasn't too impressed with the old geezer saying 'I heard a bike go past and thought shit thats going fast!', heard??? You can not say definitively from noise that he was speeding. And its been said a million times but 'he has done this maneouvre a thousand times' (or something like that), what? over yellow lines??? then he definitely needs to be off our roads

Its vehicular manslaughter, while it may be a mistake, it is a mistake that has cost a life, while he may not have meant to do that, people need to be punished so they don't do idiotic things like that ever again.

[MSTRS]

This last incident involved a cop doing a u-turn on double yellow lines and just before the crest of a hill??


From what I saw on the TELLY, not only did he do a stupid manoeuvre in a dumb fucking place ,HE ALSO IGNORED THEDOUBLE YELLOW LINES.......:oi-grr::nono:

... it is illegal to overtake on a double yellow line maybe the police standards committe should create rules like no u turns on double yellow lines with out 100 metres clear visibility? that would have avoided the accident maybe

... over a double yellow line on a narrow country road...

Not double yellow. Only on the uphill side. The side the cops was on prior to trying his turn manouevre.
What's all the palaver about double yellows, anyway? The ONLY important one to remember is the one on YOUR side of the median line.

[Bass]

Well, despite having to take evasive action, you managed to walk away with "a hell of a fright". I'm sure the police do have strict U-turn rules, but like any other driver on the road can make poor choices which also end tragically for other people. I love how people here seem to think that the police should be incapable of making the same kinds of road errors that mere mortals do frequently.



This immediately begs the question as to whether the Police should be held to higher standards than Joe Public. There is a logical case that it should be so.


You can not say definitively from noise that he was speeding..

Actually, you can do exactly that! I have used the sonic doppler shift for speed measurements and it's surprisingly accurate. Note that it's not the exhaust note that matters - it's the change in the note as the emitter goes past.
It is not difficult to tell when the sound source is grossly exceeding a speed that one is accustomed to hearing

[Big Dave]

23 pages of dross,

You added nearly half a page.

[Ronin]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10639521

That look to me like the worst shot int the dark reporting ever.

[scracha]

So just because the "witness" doesn't fit with how you'd like the facts to be you just slag him off? Were you in the vicinity yourself to verify that this "witness" is talking shit?


The only real undeniable facts so far are that the ute was pinged at a fair rate of knots and a motorcyclist died. Having just flew past the guy, I thought it strange that he never said "I heard this Ute coming and thought, ‘Wow, that’s travelling fast,’ "
Now perception is a funny thing and as no other facts have yet came out, I didn't think it appropriate for the telly "news" to air Frank Wilkin's opinion.

[Mudfart]

in NZ there is a mentality when some motorists use the road, of "there's very little chance of something coming the other way".
I have been in a car which was a short ride, where the owner driver was cutting blind corners, on completely the wrong side of the road.
It was the scariest car ride Ive ever had.
He has been driving for 6 years since that day, and still continues with the same attitude. He comes from an extremely rural area, the kind where people get drunk at the local, then can go do burnouts or have drags in the middle of the night on a main coastal highway!.
I bet you all know a place in the country like that.
The difference now is, he is living in Auckland. One day this lazy attitude to driving will catch up to him.
Unfortunately, and to give his ignorance credit, it will also catch up to some unsuspecting innocent person or family too.
Notice this tragedy was in a rural setting also. The coppers seem to have developed the same lazy driving approach "Im not in a major city, so theres very little chance of something coming the other way".
Well, something did.

[miloking]

So just because the "witness" doesn't fit with how you'd like the facts to be you just slag him off? Were you in the vicinity yourself to verify that this "witness" is talking shit?


Well fuck me, another cop suck up KB member...read the fricking article, it clearly said that Mr.Wilkin the Motor racer (thus expert on fast vehicles) only heard the whole incident from his back yard but he dared to imply that bike was speeding purely from few seconds of sound!
SO tell me just be cause you hear sound of loud bike can you honestly tell me you know how fast its traveling?

[miloking]

Email sent to Joyce and Collins:


Dear Ministers

When will you ensure police officers have the skills and intelligence to drive safely on New Zealand roads and not just act like dogs that have spotted a rabbit?

Or will you just put up the ACC levy on motorcycle licenses to cover the cost of the motorcyclist killed by the police officer this weekend?

Yours sincerely

Pixie

+1 Well said sir, Can you PM the contact details, i would also like to chime in....

[Big Dave]

It's hardly surprising that the popular Media favours the Establishment rather than Bikers.

We'd get a better shake as a Racial minority rather than a transport one.

[miloking]

Actually, you can do exactly that! I have used the sonic doppler shift for speed measurements and it's surprisingly accurate. Note that it's not the exhaust note that matters - it's the change in the note as the emitter goes past.
It is not difficult to tell when the sound source is grossly exceeding a speed that one is accustomed to hearing

OK so whats your point? Nobody disputes that you can measure doppler shift but are you saying that Mr.Wilkin has correct equipment placed around his property to measure doppler efflect on a sound of vehicles going past?

[Bald Eagle]

+1 Well said sir, Can you PM the contact details, i would also like to chime in....

List of MP's contact details (http://www.parliament.nz/NR/rdonlyres/5858C8A5-ACDF-4B35-8D7A-3ABB7B19ACDB/135634/listofmembers1304102.pdf)

[Crasherfromwayback]

OK so whats your point? Nobody disputes that you can measure doppler shift but are you saying that Mr.Wilkin has correct equipment placed around his property to measure doppler efflect on a sound of vehicles going past?

+1. The old geezer probably has a cop for a son or something! If he heard a CBR250RR going past doing 110kph at 12000RPM he'd shit himself. Think it was going 200kph. It was a stooopid thing to say in my opinion.

[Bass]

OK so whats your point? Nobody disputes that you can measure doppler shift but are you saying that Mr.Wilkin has correct equipment placed around his property to measure doppler efflect on a sound of vehicles going past?

Actually, yes!
Your ears are surprisingly effective in this situation, especially at detecting frequency change. It's one of the reasons we enjoy music.

A little test that you might like to try.................r
Go out into your back yard and listen to the traffic going past your front gate, i.e. put yourself in a set of circumstances that you are well used to.
Because it's the frequency CHANGE that matters, you will find that you can easily pick any vehicle that is grossly outside the norm of the speed going past your gate.
Please, don't take my word for it - go and check it out for yourself.

[terbang]

OMG, isn't the whole "ride as though you do NOT know what is just outside of your line of vision" thing being forgotten here? How often do we drive or ride (yes, those of us who ride are just as guilty of doing this) assuming that the road ahead, which we can't actually see, is clear of any obstacles. It only takes tiredness, distraction, cockiness, blinking to get a grain of dust outta ya eyes and all sorts of things can go down the toilet fast. Everyone is in the same boat; and if you're het up about the more serious consequences for bike riders, get off two wheels. (ps spearfish, that last comment wasn't aimed at you, it just happened to be in my reply following your qoute, not personal to you).

Generally with accidents there is not one single cause, but more a chain of errors or failures. Failures fall into two distinct category's, active and latent. Active failures include hazardous attitudes and unsafe acts. Latent failures tend to lie dormant for long periods and include topics like poor training and fallible management decisions. When we ride our bikes there are a series of defences in place, training, regulatory and also our own skill to name a few. With the last line of defence being the man on the spot (in this case our rider and the cop). When its all working properly then our risk is minimal.

Yes there is a possibility that the rider was speeding (active) and it is also well established that the policeman did a U turn on the brow of a hill (also active). However in the light of five previous "chase" accidents, the apparent myopia of the police management and training system over this trend easily falls into the category of latent failure. Thus leading to the hazardous attitude that our U turning plod displayed.

Ultimately, the measure of how effective our road safety programmes and policing is (sadly) the road death toll. And that has been drawing a lot of attention of late as the toll seems to be getting worse. So the current road safety isn't working as well as we would like.

I believe its time for all NZers to provoke/encourage a realistic rethink in the dizzy and well paid heights of the upper echelon of our police force.

[Pixie]

Scumdog seems to come across as a person with a police record then a police officer. :laugh:

I have a police record:The Laughing Policeman by Charles Jolly

[miloking]

+1. The old geezer probably has a cop for a son or something! If he heard a CBR250RR going past doing 110kph at 12000RPM he'd shit himself. Think it was going 200kph. It was a stooopid thing to say in my opinion.

You are right, thats exactly what i was getting at...and of course only reason why Mr.Wilkin is mentioned as motor racer is to give some credibility to his "expert" opinion. I get the feeling media is trying to taint this whole "unbiased" investigation yet again.
Its almost like they are on a NZ Police pay roll! (just like some KB members, "chipping" in on this discussion with their expert opinions)

[Swoop]

...they interviewed a "motoring expert" local resident who claims the motorcycle was speeding by his hearing where TV3 tried to spin it as biker again at fault.
Formal complaint on the way you fuckers.


I wasn't too impressed with the old geezer saying 'I heard a bike go past and thought shit thats going fast!', heard??? You can not say definitively from noise that he was speeding.


Well fuck me, another cop suck up KB member...read the fricking article, it clearly said that Mr.Wilkin the Motor racer (thus expert on fast vehicles) only heard the whole incident from his back yard but he dared to imply that bike was speeding purely from few seconds of sound!
SO tell me just be cause you hear sound of loud bike can you honestly tell me you know how fast its traveling?


+1. The old geezer probably has a cop for a son or something! If he heard a CBR250RR going past doing 110kph at 12000RPM he'd shit himself. Think it was going 200kph. It was a stooopid thing to say in my opinion.

Quite so. The person with the "calibrated hearing" (Frank Wilkin) has also stated that "The back of the police vehicle was "virtually torn off" (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10639521)".
Not sure about you, but the photo clearly shows a large dent in the left rear of the police car but is certainly not "virtually torn off".

[miloking]

Actually, yes!
Your ears are surprisingly effective in this situation, especially at detecting frequency change. It's one of the reasons we enjoy music.

A little test that you might like to try.................r
Go out into your back yard and listen to the traffic going past your front gate, i.e. put yourself in a set of circumstances that you are well used to.
Because it's the frequency CHANGE that matters, you will find that you can easily pick any vehicle that is grossly outside the norm of the speed going past your gate.
Please, don't take my word for it - go and check it out for yourself.

I believe you and agree with what you are saying, but my point is i would not dare to judge speed of a vehicle involved in fatal or any other inccident from hearing alone.
I could "guesstimate" that it was probably fast but i would have no clue if it was 100 or 120k/m and even so i believe its very bad manners to comment to media... "bad mouthing" and throwing guilt at someone who just died 5 minutes ago few meters away from me.
As i said dont people have any respect anymore?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Quite so. The person with the "calibrated hearing" (Frank Wilkin) has also stated that "The back of the police vehicle was "virtually torn off" (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10639521)".
Not sure about you, but the photo clearly shows a large dent in the left rear of the police car but is certainly not "virtually torn off".

+10. Years ago whilst out test riding a Z1R Kawasaki, I went through a stop sign I hadn't seen and buried it into the side of a car at around 120kph. It fucking near cut the car in half!

The damage done to the rear of the police car was nothing compared to what I did to one. Different cars etc I know...but still...

[Pixie]

I'm sure the fact that the police car appears to have been shunted around by about 90 degrees will be given due consideration.

Position of police car can be related to whether the cop tried to get out of the rider's way and accelerated

[terbang]

I agree, except the view that most have of motorcyclists. Sadly a lot see us as a lower form of life and are very quick to condemn us.

[terbang]

+10. Years ago whilst out test riding a Z1R Kawasaki, I went through a stop sign I hadn't seen and buried it into the side of a car at around 120kph. It fucking near cut the car in half!

The damage done to the rear of the police car was nothing compared to what I did to one. Different cars etc I know...but still...

Exactly what I was thinking. I slammed into the side of an HQ holden at around 50Kliks on an old RD350 and did way more damage than what I saw in the pikkies of that cop car.

[Katman]

I agree, except the view that most have of motorcyclists. Sadly a lot see us as a lower form of life and are very quick to condemn us.

And when they see us trying to avoid any form of acceptance of personal responsibility, and trying to lay total blame on someone else, our credibility turns to shit.

(Something that BRONZ needs to give serious consideration to).

[monkeymcbean]

NOW is a very good time, as a motorcycling community to get very assertive about our place, right on the road.

This goes for wire rope barriers as well, how dare we even as a minority road user group have to put up with these sort of barriers that can be modified for our safety as well....fuck(excuse the language) transit to.

How dare we put up with law enforcement who should know better than pull a dangerous move like this tragic accident, that is the dumb of dumbness.

[terbang]

And when they see us trying to avoid any form of acceptance of personal responsibility, and trying to lay total blame on someone else, our credibility turns to shit.
Mate I don't really see a lot here not accepting that there is personal responsibility in any rider in any accident.
However I do see a lot of justifiable anger over an accident following a definite trend that those who are supposed to promote road safety, apparently completely disregard it during the "heat of the chase". That's what this thread is mainly about.

[candor]

I think it's heinous discussing the victims speed - shows the brainwashing of the speed kills campaign. Even this tragedy they are using to maximise anti speed soundbytes. So what public health message is that - go slow as because you never know if a cop hiding ahead to revenue rake just may u-turn!!!!!
If he was at legal speed or not he was still likely a goner. He was clearly a skilled rider in proper safety gear and a few k's difference likely wouldn't allow collision avoidance given visibility range. 40k can be fatal on the wrong angle. In fact, the first road death in the 1890s was a pedestrian hit by someone described as speeding recklessly at 5mph.

[duckonin]

in NZ there is a mentality when some motorists use the road, of "there's very little chance of something coming the other way".
I have been in a car which was a short ride, where the owner driver was cutting blind corners, on completely the wrong side of the road.
It was the scariest car ride Ive ever had.
He has been driving for 6 years since that day, and still continues with the same attitude. He comes from an extremely rural area, the kind where people get drunk at the local, then can go do burnouts or have drags in the middle of the night on a main coastal highway!.
I bet you all know a place in the country like that.
The difference now is, he is living in Auckland. One day this lazy attitude to driving will catch up to him.
Unfortunately, and to give his ignorance credit, it will also catch up to some unsuspecting innocent person or family too.
Notice this tragedy was in a rural setting also. The coppers seem to have developed the same lazy driving approach "Im not in a major city, so theres very little chance of something coming the other way".
Well, something did. Yep it is called 'Russian Roulett', it only takes 'one' to do the job

[Pixie]

Most Police cars are not traffic cars. So please don't assume that every cop car is driven by someone who cares about the traffic rules. Most are driven by someone thinking about the next damn domestic, the next shoplifter, the next burglary or the next stolen car.

If they are not thinking about their driving,they need to travel by bus.

[Pixie]

Stupid question,why such a song and dance when a cop fucks up and nothing about when anyone else does,truck drivers/elderly/young people blah blah blah.All this crap about "there supposed to know better/there supposed to guide us "wtf,If motorcyclists on here cared as much about stupid driving and needless deaths as they profess to on here then every time any motorist fucks up and a motorcyclist dies there would be an uproar,they dont.

They are "trained Police drivers" (cue Edna Krabappel's "Hah")
"Motorists" (in NZ) got their licenses in a cornies box.

[meteor]

No question, not a clever place to turn around thats a given. I'm no mathmetician or crash analyst but how far would a rider need to scrub off speed to make a collision either survivable or for a skilled rider avoidable? Has any facts been released yet on the actual distance from line of sight on the other side of the crest to where the impact occured? And one thing I'm still confused about is if, and it's a big if, the rider recognised/knew the ute driver and was trying to catch up AND what that neighbour says is true....Think I'll put off joining the lynch mob til some facts are in. Whatever the facts are, the only sure thing is that this was an avoidable tragedy. . RIP to the rider.

[bogan]

No question, not a clever place to turn around thats a given. I'm no mathmetician or crash analyst but how far would a rider need to scrub off speed to make a collision either survivable or for a skilled rider avoidable? Has any facts been released yet on the actual distance from line of sight on the other side of the crest to where the impact occured? And one thing I'm still confused about is if, and it's a big if, the rider recognised/knew the ute driver and was trying to catch up AND what that neighbour says is true....Think I'll put off joining the lynch mob til some facts are in. Whatever the facts are, the only sure thing is that this was an avoidable tragedy. . RIP to the rider.

Thats dependant on a number of factors, speed obviously, and survivable is not a number, you can fall badly at very low speed and not survive. Something only the crash forensics will know the full story of is my guess, and I'm hoping its not hushed up. As somebody said earlier, its odd the guy made no mention of hearing the ute doing 154kmhr, but the bike sounded like it was speeding, sounds like some knob just wanted to get on the telly. And surely if they though the rider knew the ute driver they would have been able to have a chat with hiim by now? that sounds like poor journalism on the harolds part.

[Pixie]

Actually, yes!
Your ears are surprisingly effective in this situation, especially at detecting frequency change. It's one of the reasons we enjoy music.

A little test that you might like to try.................r
Go out into your back yard and listen to the traffic going past your front gate, i.e. put yourself in a set of circumstances that you are well used to.
Because it's the frequency CHANGE that matters, you will find that you can easily pick any vehicle that is grossly outside the norm of the speed going past your gate.
Please, don't take my word for it - go and check it out for yourself.

You're assuming the bike went past his place.If it didn't there would be no detectable doppler shift.

[rachprice]

This immediately begs the question as to whether the Police should be held to higher standards than Joe Public. There is a logical case that it should be so.



Actually, you can do exactly that! I have used the sonic doppler shift for speed measurements and it's surprisingly accurate. Note that it's not the exhaust note that matters - it's the change in the note as the emitter goes past.
It is not difficult to tell when the sound source is grossly exceeding a speed that one is accustomed to hearing

I meant by ear.....
I doubt he would be accurate

[SMOKEU]

Such bullshit!
The cops recently caught a gang of 5 bank and jewelery store robbers.No chase was involved,just investigation and early morning visits to where the crims lived.

As for: "It's still not the cops fault for killing someone unless the police vehicle has a collision with another vehicle." - If I goad psych patients into jumping off tall buildings,am I in anyway responsible for their deaths?

That's just luck - if a gang of people robbed a bank wearing balaclavas or full face masks, and jumped into their get away vehicle, then if the cops don't give chase if they see the bank robbers, then there is a very slim chance of them getting snapped.

As for the psych patients, everyone is responsible for their own actions. I'm sick of hearing "my mum was an alcoholic and my dad was a p addict so that gives me the right to kill people". In other words, in that situation it won't be you that's responsible, it would be the psych patients fault for jumping off the building. Just because someone is fucked in the head it doesn't give them the right to do anything that I wouldn't be allowed to do.

[Ixion]

Stuff today adds a new datum. They state that the rider was catapulted seven metres.

Now, I've done a bit of aerial motorcycling in my day. Firstly, a 7 metre flight is bugger all. It implies a definately low impact speed. Maybe 40kph, something like that.(Yes , that's a pure guess, but based on experience, and we're probably not going to see any honest figures based on anything more solid) . Certainly no way 150+ kph. Of course , that's after braking, if he did. But he had only 50 or 60 metres to brake , and perception time on top of it, he couldn't have scrubbed off from 150kph to a 7 metre flight impact speed in that distance. I'm sure there are others here who have flown a lot further than that (7 metres is the width of the road).

Secondly, a 7 metre flight would normally be very surviveable. Mostly just bruises. So he was very unlucky :cry:

Thirdly, a 7 metre flight fits with the panel damage to the car. that looks like a 30 or 40 kph impact damage to me. But it doesn't fit with shunting a heavy car right round through 135 degrees. An impact that would do that, you'd fly way way more than 7 metres.

[pete376403]

...and of course only reason why Mr.Wilkin is mentioned as motor racer is to give some credibility to his "expert" opinion. I get the feeling media is trying to taint this whole "unbiased" investigation yet again.

"Mr Wilkin said ...The back of the police vehicle was "virtually torn off". (Herald) Comparing this statement with the picture of the car suggests to me that Mr Wilkin is not a reliable witness.

[Crasherfromwayback]

"Mr Wilkin said ...The back of the police vehicle was "virtually torn off". (Herald) Comparing this statement with the picture of the car suggests to me that Mr Wilkin is not a reliable witness.

Tossbag is the term I'd use.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Now, I've done a bit of aerial motorcycling in my day. Firstly, a 7 metre flight is bugger all. It implies a definately low impact speed.


Stop press!!! Ixion and I agree on something! My 120kph 'T' boning of a car threw me approx 20m down the road. 7 metres = not great impact speed.

[avgas]

Police killing us again!

Good god will no one stop them???!!!!!
Quick hero of the internet - protect us all with your reporting!
God speed to you!

Thats right - you and me, we are 'US'.......and they, they are "THEM"
Go burn a flag hippie

[shrub]

Thats dependant on a number of factors, speed obviously, and survivable is not a number, you can fall badly at very low speed and not survive. Something only the crash forensics will know the full story of is my guess, and I'm hoping its not hushed up. As somebody said earlier, its odd the guy made no mention of hearing the ute doing 154kmhr, but the bike sounded like it was speeding, sounds like some knob just wanted to get on the telly. And surely if they though the rider knew the ute driver they would have been able to have a chat with hiim by now? that sounds like poor journalism on the harolds part.

Just before Xmas a guy I was riding with binned his Guzzi at around 100kmh and didn't make it to hospital, and my son binned his VT250 a few years ago at 160 kmh and walked away with a bruised thumb. Best riding lesson ever! What you hit has more impact (no pun intended) than how fast you're going.

And you're right, I reckon the twat on TV was full of crap - most people would notice a ute doing 154 kmh before they'd notice a bike doing damn near any speed.

[Ixion]

Thats nice, but it was Ixions endemic of dereliction which I was referring to.



Yeh it still is, just list the Bikers killed by Police since the inception of the force in this country, it surely shouldn't be hard?

You can't have an 'endemic of'. Endemic means "particular to a certain locality region or people". In this case the people is cops. So endemic dereliction means that the problem isn't just a one off fuck up, it's across the board.

The problem being the police philosophy that handing out a speeding ticket justifies any behaviour , not matter how dangerous.

As to numbers, you can do the arithmetic. The press have identified numerous previous cases . It's them that are calling for a review, not me,or BRONZ (yet). Add on the cases reported on this site and in this very thread. And Ms Candor has provided further input in her posts . As did Mr Goddard.

If you still refuse to admit, in the face of all those reports, that police dangerous driving is injuring and killing us , then nothing is going to convince you, and I'm not going to waste my time trying. Lead a horse to water, and so on. (It may well be injuring or killing non motorcyclists too. I don't know about them, so I'm not commenting on them)

[Ktmboy]

I'd agree that the cops are killing us, but its the policy makers that are even more responsible.

Heres my theory having done 80k a year every year for 20yrs (yes in a cage) for work and seeing the road toll increase whilst frustrations grow.

The revenue pollicy over the last decade has seen our road speeds decrease marketly. How often do you sit behind cages doing 80kph in a 100k zone with 20 cars piled up behind them? Every single day.
No one is keen to overtake because they are scared that plod will come around the corner and they will be given a ticket for doing 107 whilst in an overtaking move.
Its true. This builds to frustration and leads to dodgey overtaking collecting the unsusspecting motorbike rider coming the other way..

Yep speed is killing us. Not fast speed so much but slow speeders.
Well my theory anyway.

[nana_mac]

and further from the nz herald article "However, Carl Jackson, of Jackson Engineering, where Mr Brown worked part-time, told the Herald Mr Brown had been following his ute as the pair headed to their respective homes after spending time at a friend's house on Sunday afternoon. When asked if he had been speeding, Mr Jackson said he "might have been".
He said he didn't know if it had been him police had started to chase, but as he returned to town he "saw the ambulance speeding past" and figured something had happened.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10639521
So here the neighbour says two were seen getting out of the Police car. Sounds like inattentive driving or lets get that B......d instead of using a radio. Which side will he defend and has this person also been given time off the job. If this person was not a Police officer then who was with the affending officer who made the wrong judgment call taking another Motor Bike rider from us all who have respect for them.

R.I.P Paul Let your leathers flap againest your sides on your last ride

[Deano]

Stuff today adds a new datum. They state that the rider was catapulted seven metres.



This article claims he travelled 30m.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10639521

[MSTRS]

The problem being the police philosophy that handing out a speeding ticket justifies any behaviour , not matter how dangerous.



I'm not so sure that this is completely right. In the sense that they 'all' do it...
However, even one - is one too many. Since it's akin to rolling a dice...keep doing it, and eventually you'll throw a double six.

[Ixion]

Link no longer exists.

[Deano]

Link no longer exists.

Fixed now.

[Hoon]

No question, not a clever place to turn around thats a given. I'm no mathmetician or crash analyst but how far would a rider need to scrub off speed to make a collision either survivable or for a skilled rider avoidable? Has any facts been released yet on the actual distance from line of sight on the other side of the crest to where the impact occured?

Yep like yourself and unlike the other KB eggsperts I'm not prepared to come to any conclusion until I know a few more facts namely:

How fast was the rider going?
How much distance did the rider have to act before colliding with the Police car?

If the Police car gave 100m visibility then cleared.
If the Police car was within 100m visibility the rider was travelling at the speed limit then yes definately to blame and the cop should be charged.
From the pics it looks pretty close and forgive me for questioning the accuracy of anyones eye-crometer but I'll wait for the facts from someone on the ground.

[Ixion]

I'm not so sure that this is completely right. In the sense that they 'all' do it...
However, even one - is one too many. Since it's akin to rolling a dice...keep doing it, and eventually you'll throw a double six.

Correct. Not every cop buys into it . Hence 'endemic' rather than 'universal'. 'police philosophy' here means that set by the police higher command. Individual officers may (or may not) apply common sense. And I imagine that general duties officers are less hung up on it than highway patrol. Problem is that there's enough that do buy in to kill us.

[terbang]

Whats the story? Two of them in the car?

[Indoo]

As to numbers, you can do the arithmetic.)

So there are no previous incidents of Police careless driving causing biker deaths are there then Ixion, might want to retract your original claim and replace it with something thats actually true and that you have the figures for. Facts and figures rather than emotive false statements create a far more convincing argument.

[MarkH]

I believe you and agree with what you are saying, but my point is i would not dare to judge speed of a vehicle involved in fatal or any other inccident from hearing alone.
I could "guesstimate" that it was probably fast but i would have no clue if it was 100 or 120k/m and even so i believe its very bad manners to comment to media... "bad mouthing" and throwing guilt at someone who just died 5 minutes ago few meters away from me.
As i said dont people have any respect anymore?

I'd have to agree - just because the old duffer thought the bike sounded like it was going pretty fast it doesn't mean that he knows with enough certainty to declare to the news media that he knows it as a fact!


If the Police car was within 100m visibility the rider was travelling at the speed limit then yes definately to blame and the cop should be charged.


I would say that if the police car was turning where it wasn't safe to do so then the cop should be charged! We don't know what speed the bike was going, but even if it was 150kph then it still doesn't mean that the rider deserved to die! Sure the rider 'might' have had some part to play in his own fate - but the cop clearly played a role too and he should have known better!

If the rider & the cop are each 50% responsible then how does that mean that the cop should get away scott free and the rider lost his life? As far as I am concerned the cop should face the music for his role in this tragedy regardless of what speed the rider was travelling at.


I have also personally witnessed police officers breaking the law on the road, including a dangerous U-turn to give a motorist a telling off (no actual law broken by the motorist either, therefore no charges).

[nana_mac]

Read the link that I posted and go read both pages it states there that two were seen getting out of the police car.

[888mike]

Rest in peace Paul and ride on, and as for cops and thier eagerness to hand out tickets it is irelavent how fast the bike was travelling the fact remains he (the officer) pulled off an unsafe u turn and killed someone, I have had an idiot H/way patrol cop do this after me and when he got to me he was trembling with excitement and yes I was doin 139ks after passing a few cars but he was getting off on it and he had just pulled a u turn out of a line of moving cars so it's obviously common practice and this could hapen to any one of us on the road. So stay alert and be safe.

[Ixion]

So there are no previous incidents of Police careless driving causing biker deaths are there then Ixion, might want to retract your original claim and replace it with something thats actually true and that you have the figures for. Facts and figures rather than emotive false statements create a far more convincing argument.

Mate, nothing is going to satisfy you but the official police line - that the police are all Gods, that they are entitled to do whatever they wish no matter how dangerous, and that no one has ever been endangered (let alone injured or killed) by police bad driving. However, the press, the courts and the many instances referred to here all plainly contradict you. Given the choice between the police official position and reality, I'll go with reality.

It is precisely that attitude by the police, perfectly exemplified by you, that they can do no wrong, have never done wrong, that it is always the motorists/riders fault, and that the police will nevr accept any responsibility, that i find so offensive.

[miloking]

So there are no previous incidents of Police careless driving causing biker deaths are there then Ixion, might want to retract your original claim and replace it with something thats actually true and that you have the figures for. Facts and figures rather than emotive false statements create a far more convincing argument.

Stop using "motorcyclists" only as excuse...other people/motorists killed by cops also count, dont they?

Ok i dont have accurate numbers but even if you count only Mr.Brown, its 1 PERSON TOO MANY!

[Indoo]

It is precisely that attitude by the police, perfectly exemplified by you, that they can do no wrong, have never done wrong, that it is always the motorists/riders fault, and that the police will nevr accept any responsibility, that i find so offensive.

Might want to actually try reading rather than assuming then, given that I've already said that if the facts are what they appear to be then the cop in question deserved the condemnation he's getting.

The only issue I've raised is your claim that there was a high rate of Police careless driving killing motorcyclists, which appears to be blatantly false and something you've simply made up.

[bogan]

Might want to actually try reading rather than assuming then, given that I've already said that if the facts are what they appear to be then the cop in question deserved the condemnation he's getting.

The only issue I've raised is your claim that there was a high rate of Police careless driving killing motorcyclists, which appears to be blatantly false and something you've simply made up.

well with the examples given, doesn't it make it about 1 serious accident per year? When you consider these are the guys supposed to keep the road safe for us, it sounds bloody high to me!

[Kiwi675]

Already burnt it...........Cant remember if it was when I was trying to save the Forests and Birds from evil miners and the governement or if I wrapped it around some moron doing an MBA...................

[Kiwi675]

Good god will no one stop them???!!!!!
Quick hero of the internet - protect us all with your reporting!
God speed to you!

Thats right - you and me, we are 'US'.......and they, they are "THEM"
Go burn a flag hippie

Already burnt it...........Cant remember if it was when I was trying to save the Forests and Birds from evil miners and the governement or if I wrapped it around some moron doing an MBA...................

[avgas]

Already burnt it...........Cant remember if it was when I was trying to save the Forests and Birds from evil miners and the governement or if I wrapped it around some moron doing an MBA...................
definitely the former - your to lazy to give me a flag keyboard hero

[MSTRS]

Fair enough, Indoo. You want facts to back up claims. In this instance there may not be facts about deaths (other than Paul Brown), but there's plenty of facts covering injuries right up to, but just short of, death.
The one fact is that we, and organisations like the police, carry on business based on beliefs rather than facts, much of the time. How do you explain the push for ticketing when compared to rising injury/death stats as anything other than a belief that more ticketing will drop the road toll. If that was a fact then more ticketing would mean less injuries/death. Empirical evidence more than suggests it is working the other way.
So, dealing with facts, how do you and the rest of the police defend this flawed approach?

[SPman]

If they are not thinking about their driving,they need to travel by bus.
That would apply to everyone on the road!

[CookMySock]

It is precisely that attitude by the police [trimmed] that they can do no wrong, have never done wrong, that it is always the motorists/riders fault, and that the police will nevr accept any responsibility, that i find so offensive.I have been dealt to them first hand by this attitude. There is no point getting angry any more. Nothing will change.

I have suggested before, a "thumbs down to poor policing" campaign. Motorists and general public would use the the non-insulting thumbs down universal sign of disapproval to indicate that they are not happy with any poor policing policies or practices. Follow this up with bumper stickers etc.

I bet the cops would the message real quick.

Steve

[riffer]

Fair enough, Indoo. You want facts to back up claims. In this instance there may not be facts about deaths (other than Paul Brown), but there's plenty of facts covering injuries right up to, but just short of, death.
The one fact is that we, and organisations like the police, carry on business based on beliefs rather than facts, much of the time. How do you explain the push for ticketing when compared to rising injury/death stats as anything other than a belief that more ticketing will drop the road toll. If that was a fact then more ticketing would mean less injuries/death. Empirical evidence more than suggests it is working the other way.
So, dealing with facts, how do you and the rest of the police defend this flawed approach?

Candor's already dealt with this. Greatest ENFORCEABLE Risk, vs Greatest Actual Risk. Very interesting reading, once you sift through the bad writing (they really need a good editor).

[MSTRS]

Nothing like repetition to make a point eh?

[KEN]

You just watch,this will be fudged over by the police once again.Speed or alcohol, just watch, they bloody will...

[PrincessBandit]

Well fuck me, another cop suck up KB member...read the fricking article, it clearly said that Mr.Wilkin the Motor racer (thus expert on fast vehicles) only heard the whole incident from his back yard but he dared to imply that bike was speeding purely from few seconds of sound!
SO tell me just be cause you hear sound of loud bike can you honestly tell me you know how fast its traveling?

Piss off. You weren't there neither was I. I am prepared to say there could be something in it, not just spout off about "what the hell would he know", when he heard something. Suck my strap on, dickhead.

[Muppet]

..........................

Time to view some re-runs of Shorland Street, more real than most of what my eyes see here..later dudes.....

I'd like to know what speed the bike was doing, he has to be going at a speed equal to or under the speed limit, where he can stop in the length of the lane visible to him. If he was approaching a blind hill then he should have been initially slowing down surely? Were there any other riders with him? I'd like to hear from them rather than the armchair lawyers on this thread personally. You might find this hard to stomach but none of you actually know what happened and neither do I.

[Headbanger]

They are now reporting he was thrown 100m?

Can't say I believe that.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3601406/Victims-parents-We-hold-no-grudge

[Muppet]

They are now reporting he was thrown 100m?

Can't say I believe that.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3601406/Victims-parents-We-hold-no-grudge

The media might have made a typo? I 'flew' 10 to 12 metres after I hit a tree and I was doing 70 to 80 km/h according to those who were riding with me.

[Katman]

They are now reporting he was thrown 100m?


"chased by police many times"

I think the heat has just come off Mr Wilkin.

[peasea]

They are now reporting he was thrown 100m?

Can't say I believe that.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3601406/Victims-parents-We-hold-no-grudge

100m is a long way. Go into the street now and pace it out. I don't believe it either, but then again the overall credibility of the police is pretty shabby these days.

[peasea]

"chased by police many times".

Who hasn't?

[Kiwi675]

definitely the former - your to lazy to give me a flag keyboard hero

Always check your facts before casting aspersion................you may end up looking foolish.....

[miloking]

Piss off. You weren't there neither was I. I am prepared to say there could be something in it, not just spout off about "what the hell would he know", when he heard something. Suck my strap on, dickhead.

Exactly my point nobody saw the "vehicular manslaughter" !!!! Not even the fucking cop himself saw what hit him.

Nobody gives a rat about dubious statements of lying witness (who isnt even actual witness) and you being "prepared" to be gulible enough to believe him! (*insert appropriate insult for PMS cow equal to "dickhead"*)

[meteor]

Piss off.... Suck my strap on, dickhead.

Fuck I laughed when I saw that sentence, if I knew how to bling I'd surely give you one PB... pure gold!

[Max Preload]

7m... 30m... 100m... You've got about as much chance of getting the real story about anything from so-called 'reporters' as you have of getting struck by lightning on the way to collect your 1st division Lotto winnings.

All there is to go on at present is the photos. They can't really fuck them up too bad, although depending on the focal length they were taken at they may be distorted in terms of depth.

There's no way the cop car could have ended up in the position it is shown without a sizeable shunt. Best case scenario: the cop's 3-point turn was textbook - 60° right turn forward across the road before impact. That means it came to rest after being turned 90° counterclockwise. That's quite a hit, even with the car being hit that far back. I'd say the bike was fair tramping.

Of course, that doesn't absolve the cop of any responsibility for his own actions in his poor choice of location for the turn. Over a yellow line, hidden from view by a blind crest. I don't care who you are - that's just plain fucking stupid. Dangerous driving causing death.

[terbang]

Well even repetition can be a struggle with some of these cops. What I often wonder, is do they (police) attract stubborn single minded twits or do they produce them?

[Crasherfromwayback]

100m is a long way. Go into the street now and pace it out. I don't believe it either, but then again the overall credibility of the police is pretty shabby these days.

Aye! I skidded a measured by the police 150m on my arse years ago. Speed required for that lil effort? 180kph.

[Ronin]

Exactly my point nobody saw the "vehicular manslaughter" !!!! Not even the fucking cop himself saw what hit him.

Nobody gives a rat about dubious statements of lying witness (who isnt even actual witness) and you being "prepared" to be gulible enough to believe him! (*insert appropriate insult for PMS cow equal to "dickhead"*)

Fuck dude. You know this is just the Interweb aye?

[terbang]

Suck my strap on, dickhead.

Jeez :gob: :rofl:

[peasea]

Aye! I skidded a measured by the police 150m on my arse years ago. Speed required for that lil effort? 180kph.

Do you have any arse left? (Not that I'm at all interested in your arse per se.)

[peasea]

Suck my strap on.

Hardy har, that I'd pay to see.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Do you have any arse left? (Not that I'm at all interested in your arse per se.)

Nah. Looks like I sat on a ham slicer!

[MSTRS]

Exactly my point nobody saw the "vehicular manslaughter" !!!! Not even the fucking cop himself saw what hit him.

Nobody gives a rat about dubious statements of lying witness (who isnt even actual witness) and you being "prepared" to be gulible enough to believe him! (*insert appropriate insult for PMS cow equal to "dickhead"*)
You've not been here very long, so couldn't be expected to know that sometimes Steve uses Dawn's log-in...or does he?
Nobody really knows for sure. Bit like the Stig.