Police killing us again!

[miloking]

Fuck dude. You know this is just the Interweb aye?

Yep, i didnt start the personal insults...i always try to be as polite as possible, until iam told to piss off and to suck things....

[PrincessBandit]

Exactly my point nobody saw the "vehicular manslaughter" !!!! Not even the fucking cop himself saw what hit him.

Nobody gives a rat about dubious statements of lying witness (who isnt even actual witness) and you being "prepared" to be gulible enough to believe him! (*insert appropriate insult for PMS cow equal to "dickhead"*)

You're an idiot. Normally I'd say "quit while you're ahead", but even this doesn't apply to you.

[MSTRS]

Yep, i didnt start the personal insults...i always try to be as polite as possible, until iam told to piss of and to suck things....

Noooooo!...we don't know where you've been.

[puddytat]

Thirdly, a 7 metre flight fits with the panel damage to the car. that looks like a 30 or 40 kph impact damage to me. But it doesn't fit with shunting a heavy car right round through 135 degrees. An impact that would do that, you'd fly way way more than 7 metres.

Maybe after the impact he realised that he was in a dodgey spot on the backside of a blind rise & drove the car off the road , to minimise further damage to oncoming....?

[Elysium]

http://i.imgur.com/W7Uj7.jpg

Man, come on people.

[Ronin]

Yep, i didnt start the personal insults...i always try to be as polite as possible, until iam told to piss off and to suck things....

Well, to be honest dude, you pretty much bought it on your self. Having a point of view is all good. Being shouty about it not so much. You have your own personal view on the Police and that is fine. Not every one here agrees with you. Accepting that would be a good thing.

[miloking]

Well, to be honest dude, you pretty much bought it on your self. Having a point of view is all good. Being shouty about it not so much. You have your own personal view on the Police and that is fine. Not every one here agrees with you. Accepting that would be a good thing.

Sure no argument there, but comments like from PrincessBandit are always uncalled for....must be the some kind of "redneck/pub/tough talk" mentality.

[Muppet]

100m is a long way. Go into the street now and pace it out. I don't believe it either, but then again the overall credibility of the police is pretty shabby these days.

And the media, they report it. No wonder heresay evidence is inadmissabe in court. Christ almighty! Next thing you know they'll say the bike was speeding.....

[PrincessBandit]

You've not been here very long, so couldn't be expected to know that sometimes Steve uses Dawn's log-in...or does he?
Nobody really knows for sure. Bit like the Stig.
Hahaha, the difference is that Steve has something I don't.....


Sure no argument there, but comments like from PrincessBandit are always uncalled for....must be the some kind of "redneck/pub/tough talk" mentality.
If you're that tender you'd better watch out - you'll be easy bait for bigger sharks than me around here.

[miloking]

And the media, they report it. However if he did fly 100m what is that telling you?

iam sure that its not what you meant by the post but it sounds like....

Its telling me that he must have been traveling at least 300+ km/h....and therefore got what he deserved, lets buy the cop beer for doing good job and close the investigation.

[miloking]

If you're that tender you'd better watch out - you'll be easy bait for bigger sharks than me around here.

yes it was the "strap on" comment, it left me all insecure and vulnerable.... :o

Ok Sorry for calling you cop suck up, iam sure you are not....

[riffer]

Hahaha, the difference is that Steve has something I don't.....

A huge pile of infractions?

[Ixion]

Maybe after the impact he realised that he was in a dodgey spot on the backside of a blind rise & drove the car off the road , to minimise further damage to oncoming....?

Or perhaps the startle factor of the crash caused the driver to put his foot on the accelerator , when the vehicle was in reverse. I'm not implying anything sinister in the car's position, merely that the force required to turn it 135 degrees would be very high. Especially bearing in mind, that once it turns 90 degrees , there would be no further energy transfer from the bike (essentailly, at that point the bike and car would be side by side and the bike would glance off the car)

[Deano]

Suck my strap on, dickhead.


Hahaha, the difference is that Steve has something I don't.....


Ok now I'm confused. Are you a lesbian PB - if not, why do you have a strap on ?

Is it for Steve ?

[Fatjim]

Hahaha, the difference is that Steve has something I don't.....


Man boobs?

[Fatjim]

Aye! I skidded a measured by the police 150m on my arse years ago. Speed required for that lil effort? 180kph.

Yeah, but the only drag your short tiny arse has ever seen was Brucetta down Vivian st one Saturday night.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Yeah, but the only drag your short tiny arse has ever seen was Brucetta down Vivian st one Saturday night.

It's name was Brucinda mate...get it right.

[Swoop]

Family and friends of Paul Brown (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10639523), the motorcyclist killed in a collision with a cop car, have criticised local traffic police, labelling them "a bunch of cowboys".

Cousin Antony Brown yesterday spoke of other crashes involving police vehicles doing u-turns.

A motorcyclist was seriously injured when a police car, responding to an emergency call, made a u-turn on State Highway 2, at nearby Maramarua in December 2007.

"There's an element in the police ... they're a bunch of cowboys. This is not the first time this has happened."

Mr Brown had just left friend Joe MacFarlane's home in Waerenga before the accident.

Mr MacFarlane could not hide his anger. "I cannot understand why an experienced traffic officer would turn around in such a blind spot. It's absolutely ludicrous, I'm blown away. What are they teaching them?"

Friends say the officer should have waited until he was over the hill and turned around in a driveway or a street on the left, about 50m away.

Allan Kirk, head of New Zealand Motorcycle Safety Consultants, said ticket quota-motivated policemen had to learn that other road users' lives were more important than the issuing of a speeding ticket.

"This sort of crash involving police cars has become far too common and it has only been luck that up until now a motorcyclist has not been killed by a u-turning police car. Now the luck of the police and an innocent motorcyclist has run out."

[scumdog]

Indoo keeps demanding Ixion produce evidence of especial MC victimisation. The evidence is both on the street for anyone to see and in the findings of the Goddard report.

So, at the end of all this how many motorcyclists HAVE died as a direct result of the driver of a Police vehicle? That was the simple question asked of Mr I who insinuated it was a constant ongoing event...

And yes, I know even one injured or killed is one too many. (before somebody else jumps on the already creaking band-wagon)

[scumdog]

Is it true that the ones with orange are crime or whatever, and the ones with yellow are traffic?

No.

All new police cars are now yellow/white now, regardless of their intended purpose.

[Wannabiker]

Yep like yourself and unlike the other KB eggsperts I'm not prepared to come to any conclusion until I know a few more facts namely:

How fast was the rider going?
How much distance did the rider have to act before colliding with the Police car?

If the Police car gave 100m visibility then cleared.
If the Police car was within 100m visibility the rider was travelling at the speed limit then yes definately to blame and the cop should be charged.
From the pics it looks pretty close and forgive me for questioning the accuracy of anyones eye-crometer but I'll wait for the facts from someone on the ground.

The yellow line was on the cops side of the road....If it unsafe to do an overtaking move there, then it would also be unsafe to do a "U" Turn, or worse, a 3-point turn..... The yellow line was his not to cross....

[MSTRS]

So, at the end of all this how many motorcyclists HAVE died as a direct result of the driver of a Police vehicle? That was the simple question asked of Mr I who insinuated it was a constant ongoing event...

And yes, I know even one injured or killed is one too many. (before somebody else jumps on the already creaking band-wagon)

The reason why some die, when police are involved, is arguing semantics.
Some of those dead'uns may have died anyway, but some died BECAUSE police gave chase and BECAUSE the runner perhaps sped up.
Yes, they could have stopped, but also yes the police could have used their radio instead of chasing...

[scumdog]

Well fuck me, another cop suck up KB member...read the fricking article, it clearly said that Mr.Wilkin the Motor racer (thus expert on fast vehicles) only heard the whole incident from his back yard but he dared to imply that bike was speeding purely from few seconds of sound!
SO tell me just be cause you hear sound of loud bike can you honestly tell me you know how fast its traveling?

Exactly, seeing as how you were there and know all about how the crash happenedl how DARE Mr Wilkin have the nerve to ofer only a THEORY about the bikes speed, what was he thinking????

[scumdog]

Well even repetition can be a struggle with some of these cops. What I often wonder, is do they (police) attract stubborn single minded twits or do they produce them?

Nah, the public drive 'em into that state of mind T.

[nsrpaul]

looks like cambell live might be worth a watch, interview with the ute driver

[peasea]

looks like cambell live might be worth a watch, interview with the ute driver

Was he found or did he front up?

[Katman]

You've not been here very long, so couldn't be expected to know that sometimes Steve uses Dawn's log-in...or does he?
Nobody really knows for sure. Bit like the Stig.

Just for the record, Dawn and I have never used each others log-ons.






(But I'll keep the Stig comment).

[peasea]

Nah, the public drive 'em into that state of mind T.

Is that an admission that cops are "stubborn, single-minded twits"?

[peasea]

Just for the record, Dawn and I have never used each others log-ons.





(But I'll keep the Stig comment).

What about each other's strap-ons?

[Str8 Jacket]

The media might have made a typo? I 'flew' 10 to 12 metres after I hit a tree and I was doing 70 to 80 km/h according to those who were riding with me.

You were lucky.. I know someone who was travelling @ 70kph on an A100 and had a car turn in front of them. They were catapulted 20 metres....

[shafty]

Sorry if this might seems to distract from the thread but....Yahoo has a Poll up FOR TODAY asking your opinon on this matter. Its at http://nz.yahoo.com - centre of page, Cheers, Shafty

[shafty]

Was he found or did he front up?

This might help....

A police officer who made a fatal u-turn in front of a motorcyclist was left so badly shaken by the man's death he could not key in an emergency call on his cellphone, says a witness.

In an ironic twist, the allegedly speeding motorist who the officer was about to pursue when he made the u-turn may have been the motorcyclist's best friend.

Father-of-two and former motorsport champion Paul Brown, 38, was killed as he came over the brow of a hill near Waerenga, in Waikato, and crashed into the turning patrol car, which had its sirens on and lights flashing and was about to chase a ute that police say had been clocked travelling 154km/h.

Four investigations into the death of Mr Brown were under way last night, but police said the ute driver had not come forward and they did not know who he was.

However, Carl Jackson, of Jackson Engineering, where Mr Brown worked part-time, told the Herald Mr Brown had been following his ute as the pair headed to their respective homes after spending time at a friend's house on Sunday afternoon.

When asked if he had been speeding, Mr Jackson said he "might have been".

He said he didn't know if it had been him police had started to chase, but as he returned to town he "saw the ambulance speeding past" and figured something had happened.

One of the first people on the scene, neighbour Frank Wilkin, said he raced outside after hearing a "horrific boom" and saw a police officer and another man get out of the patrol car.

"They looked very, very shocked, they didn't know what the hell they'd hit. They were as white as sheets."

Moments later, the police officer raced into Mr Wilkin's house asking to use his phone because he was unable to use his mobile phone. The officer could not immediately see Mr Brown's body, which was flung about 30m off his bike and into a ditch, Mr Wilkin said.

"He had a cellphone but he was shaking so much he couldn't press the buttons. He was yelling, 'I can't find him, I can't find him'."

Mr Wilkin said there were "bits and pieces" of Mr Brown's motorbike strewn for metres across the road. Half of his helmet looked as though it had been crushed. The back of the police vehicle was "virtually torn off".

Mr Jackson condemned the police officer's actions. "It was a stupid place to turn around. If he'd gone another 100 metres he could have turned around safely."

He described Mr Brown as "one of my best mates".

Mr Brown was divorced and had two teenage children, Clayton and Chanelle, who lived with their mother.

Dozens of friends and relatives flooded the home of Mr Brown's parents, John and Jenny, in the nearby village of Waerenga yesterday. It is understood the couple lost another son in a motorbike accident years earlier.

Some people flipped through a photo album of images of Mr Brown racing. Mr Brown was the New Zealand Supermotard champion in 2005, but he hurt his back in a race in Wanganui in 2008 and had not raced competitively since.

He was a member of a group of biking enthusiasts called the Coro Demons and had their logo on his bikes, of which he had about four.

Waikato road policing manager Leo Tooman yesterday said the CIB, Serious Crash Unit and the Independent Police Complaints Authority were all investigating the crash. The coroner would also carry out an investigation.

Mr Tooman said police investigations would be supervised by a senior officer from outside the district with peer review by a crash investigator also from outside the district.

"Road policing is all about preventing road trauma. Unfortunately the nature of our business is such that from time to time tragedies occur. It is now a priority for us to ensure a thorough investigation is completed, not only for the deceased's family's peace of mind but for that of the public and our own staff."

[Mudfart]

they put a speed camera in one of the new vans on waerenga rd today, it was in the 50kph zone near the TK college.

[Big Dave]

I had a conversation with the Ed about it today.
He is in the 'Ban all Pursuits' corner and the next KIWIRIDER editorial might well be carrying that line.
I disagree. I think without the disincentive of getting caught on the job there will be twin-turbo-no-springs-or-numberplate-cap-on-sideways-wastegate-pumping carnage and worse tragedies.
But I don't really know. Sigh.

[Toaster]

Maybe all cops in the traffic division should have to ride two wheels (a push bike would be my suggestion, don't want them on motorbikes), for the first ten years of the job so they learn a little about self-preservation before they're allowed into a V8 Holden.
.

I agree - to clarify, that all cops in traffic (long termers) should be bikers.

There are no V8 cars in the police fleet, only SV6 Holdens.

[Pixie]

Prompt acknowledgement from Judith Collins,Joyce must be hiding somewhere:


Dear Mr Pixie

The Hon Judith Collins, Minister of Police, has asked me to acknowledge and thank you for your correspondence of 20 April 2010, received by this office on 20 April 2010, regarding fatal police u-turn accident in the Waikato.

The Minister has asked officials for advice on this matter. You will receive a response as soon as possible.

Yours sincerely






Inspector Troy Nicholson
Police Private Secretary

[twotyred]

I had a conversation with the Ed about it today.
He is in the 'Ban all Pursuits' corner and the next KIWIRIDER editorial might well be carrying that line.
I disagree. I think without the disincentive of getting caught on the job there will be twin-turbo-no-springs-or-numberplate-cap-on-sideways-wastegate-pumping carnage and worse tragedies.
But I don't really know. Sigh.

I would have said the same thing but this thread makes for interesting (if long and alarming) reading.
the really interesting stuff is in post 23...

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/122198-End-revenue-deaths-conquer-the-RAM

[Pixie]

That's just luck - if a gang of people robbed a bank wearing balaclavas or full face masks, and jumped into their get away vehicle, then if the cops don't give chase if they see the bank robbers, then there is a very slim chance of them getting snapped.

As for the psych patients, everyone is responsible for their own actions. I'm sick of hearing "my mum was an alcoholic and my dad was a p addict so that gives me the right to kill people". In other words, in that situation it won't be you that's responsible, it would be the psych patients fault for jumping off the building. Just because someone is fucked in the head it doesn't give them the right to do anything that I wouldn't be allowed to do.

Do you even know what goad means?

[Big Dave]

I'd be careful on what we ultimately wish for in alternate Policing methods too.
There isn't enough hardware to put a Chopper over every Parish in NZ.
It sounds a bit big brother-ish when you head down other alternatives in that direction - Governors? GPS tracking? Auto-cut outs? Remote disabling? All doable now.
I know that if you give a government a stick - it will hit you with it.

[Pixie]

I'm not so sure that this is completely right. In the sense that they 'all' do it...
However, even one - is one too many. Since it's akin to rolling a dice...keep doing it, and eventually you'll throw a double six.

If I was a tycoon I'd fund ads on TV with a cadaverous individual with a "wheel of fortune" lurking around cops contemplating u-turns and pursuits.

[Pixie]

So there are no previous incidents of Police careless driving causing biker deaths are there then Ixion, might want to retract your original claim and replace it with something thats actually true and that you have the figures for. Facts and figures rather than emotive false statements create a far more convincing argument.

Yawn...give it a bone :yawn:

[Headbanger]

I had a conversation with the Ed about it today.
He is in the 'Ban all Pursuits' corner and the next KIWIRIDER editorial might well be carrying that line.
I disagree. I think without the disincentive of getting caught on the job there will be twin-turbo-no-springs-or-numberplate-cap-on-sideways-wastegate-pumping carnage and worse tragedies.
But I don't really know. Sigh.

If that were to be the case I'd never get another ticket.....ever, for anything.

[Robert Taylor]

Im not happy that many who have posted are collectivising the police as ( if you like ) a bunch of rotten apples. If the deceased was doing everything totally within the letter of the law and the u turn was very foolhardy then fair enough heads need to roll. But only after all sides have a fair hearing and certainly away from a kangaroo court mentality.
Personally I am thankful of the police, I had a very high speed motorcycle accident back in 85 ( yes I was speeding because I was young and knew everything at that time ) But for a miracle I shouldnt be here as I was thrown clear of the trailer that my RZ500 was busily ripping the tandemn axles out of. The other party was adjudged at being at fault as he failed to see me on a clear road before pulling out onto the road.
I am grateful of the police involvement as they were first on the scene ahead of the ambulance. As fas as I worked out they were ordinary human beings, just like the rest of us.

[Pixie]

I'd like to know what speed the bike was doing, he has to be going at a speed equal to or under the speed limit, where he can stop in the length of the lane visible to him. If he was approaching a blind hill then he should have been initially slowing down surely? Were there any other riders with him? I'd like to hear from them rather than the armchair lawyers on this thread personally. You might find this hard to stomach but none of you actually know what happened and neither do I.

Do you do this? Slow down to achieve the optimum visibility ahead?
Like fuck.

[miloking]

And yes, I know even one injured or killed is one too many. (before somebody else jumps on the already creaking band-wagon)

Oh well, well.. you might not be completely lost cause after all scumdog...

[miloking]

Exactly, seeing as how you were there and know all about how the crash happenedl how DARE Mr Wilkin have the nerve to ofer only a THEORY about the bikes speed, what was he thinking????

"Theories" are very dangerous things to be presented as "facts" for deciding blame that caused fatal accidents...

[miloking]

Im not happy that many who have posted are collectivising the police as ( if you like ) a bunch of rotten apples.

As fas as I worked out they were ordinary human beings, just like the rest of us.

Nobody said police arent human beings..as far as i can tell in this whole " lame excuse for civilized discussion" thread. (nor did at any point)

My only issue with police is the Hypocrisy of road "safety message" they are forcing upon me...and then shit like this happens!

[SMOKEU]

Do you even know what goad means?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/goad

[bogan]

just watched the campbell live interview, the interview was pretty good, but the feedback somewhat biased, one said its a rare breed of biker that doesn't speed so just assumed he was. And the common theme is that he should have been able to stop within his vision distance. One thing I haven't heard covered though, has it been established he couldn't see the cop before the turn was started? maybe the cop started the turn after he came over the hill?

[peasea]

I am grateful of the police involvement as they were first on the scene ahead of the ambulance. As fas as I worked out they were ordinary human beings, just like the rest of us.

Those nice young men in their clean white coats are coming to take you away.


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[marty]

I had a conversation with the Ed about it today.
He is in the 'Ban all Pursuits' corner and the next KIWIRIDER editorial might well be carrying that line.
I disagree. I think without the disincentive of getting caught on the job there will be twin-turbo-no-springs-or-numberplate-cap-on-sideways-wastegate-pumping carnage and worse tragedies.
But I don't really know. Sigh.

Yup. Be careful what we wish for.

Stop all patrols, use them as crash attendance only. *555? take it away - following a drunk/dangerous driver? Too bad. Someone's cutting in, overtaking dangerous etc etc - too bad. Can't run the risk of a pursuit occurring, so they just carry on doing what they're doing.

Have 1000's of speed cameras - fixed and mobile. Legislate number plates on the front of bikes.

If you don't beleive it - try speeding without being photographed in the UK

[Katman]

but the feedback somewhat biased, one said its a rare breed of biker that doesn't speed so just assumed he was. And the common theme is that he should have been able to stop within his vision distance.

I wouldn't call it biased. I'd call it the public's general concensus.

Those of you who are trying to whitewash the motorcyclist's involvement in this incident are achieving nothing other than strengthening the public's perception that we're a bunch of fucking retards.

[DangerMice]

just watched the campbell live interview, the interview was pretty good, but the feedback somewhat biased, one said its a rare breed of biker that doesn't speed so just assumed he was. ......

That feedback made me feel so pissed off! Just shows the general attitude to motorcyclists. "He's was a biker? Oh well fuck him, was his own fault then". Aarraaggghhhh!!

[JimO]

if it was a car that came over the rise and collected the police car there would have been more fatalities, ok the bike was probably speeding to catch up with his mate in the ute, but the cop shouldnt have attempted a 3 point turn in that place on the road AND if it was you or me we would have been charged with careless use causing death by now, im normally pro police, i have a few mates that are cops but this time i think the cop fucked up. I also think the guy that said the bike was speeding because he heard it should shut his trap as we all know noise doesnt necessarily mean speed even though the rider was on a kawasaki 1000 that could go over the speed limit easily he doesnt know how fast the bike was going

[jahrasti]

Ban all road safety I say.

And when all the fuck wits on here start to whinge about the roads being such a dangerous place, I will sit here and think " I told you so".

[peasea]

Do you do this? Slow down to achieve the optimum visibility ahead?
Like fuck.

Actually, I do usually. I like being alive and if I get mocked for being last to arrive coz the weather is shit or whatever, so be it. But I say "usually". One day something might bite me on the arse but I hope it isn't a cop doing a u-turn.

I did chuckle when I read in The Press this morning that something like five such incidents had occurred since 2007. Yeah right! There may be only five reported but I know of one incident (my daughter's) that hasn't made the stat's. Funny how the cops photographed the scene of her accident but there was no record of the accident at comms. Figure that out. If there's no record of the accident, why was the photographer there the next day? If there's no record of the accident why did a squad car turn up? If there's no record of the accident why was my daughter charged with crossing double yellows? (Trying to avoid the u-turning cop.)

It's because they're lying fucking homo's, that's why.

[nsrpaul]

ffs

it is possible that the bike was speeding, it was possible that he wasn't

time and investigation will tell

the question in my view is does the end justify the means, or is it ok to pull a dangerous manuover to catch a speeding motorist

i had a recent complaint with the local fuzz where I was in the wrong and offending on the road (had paid the fine before laying a complaint) and the police agrred after the fact that my actions while illegal were at the low end of the stupid scale and did not put the public in imediate danger

the police officers actions (off duty by the way) were agreed to put the public in immediate danger

guess what!!!

the complaint went nowhere, it is this "the ends justify the means" approach that needs to change

it is at the minimum partialy responsible for this tradgedy, and a true tradgedy it is

[peasea]

I wouldn't call it biased. I'd call it the public's general concensus.

Those of you who are trying to whitewash the motorcyclist's involvement in this incident are achieving nothing other than strengthening the public's perception that we're a bunch of retards.

Are we not?

Oops.

[Katman]

Are we not?

Oops.

I'd laugh...........




.......except I was under the impression that, if we were to have a fuckin' snowflakes chance of addressing the ACC issue, then we needed the general public on our side.

[nsrpaul]

It's because they're lying fucking homo's, that's why.

it could also be because eric davey is a crooked condesending prat if his handling of my complaints was anything to go by

they even tried to pin public complaints about my driving on me!! shame they couldnt get the coulor of the car right

I like the police (in general), am glad they are there, don't envy their job, but lost all respect for the complaints process locally some time ago

[peasea]

ffs

it is possible that the bike was speeding, it was possible that he wasn't
time and investigation will tell


Tell us what? What the police want to tell us.

I firmly believe that when a police officer's actions are brought into question, be that on the road or anywhere, then an investigation by persons NOT wearing a blue uniform should be undertaken. You see on tv the cops taking measurements and documenting 'evidence' right? Well come on, if anything points the finger at the cop (and not just in this instance) any such evidence will most likely be downplayed and the 'evidence' against any other party will most likely be embellished.

Do cops make shit up? Yes they fuckin' do. And when it comes to protecting their own they make it up pretty damned fast.

[idleidolidyll]

Huge condolences to Pauls family and friends: is there anything the KBers can do to help his family?

Cops? Liars and asswipes just reconfirmed for me last year and again recently.

1. Last year I (and a couple of others) tried to save a bikers life but failed. When the cops got there I heard them pronounce "speed was the major factor" but nobody paid any attention to three of us who KNOW the rider was going MUCH slower than us and was probably 30kph under the speed limit. Surprise surprise; the coroner didn't even call for our opinion as eye witnesses.

2. Busted for speeding when I wasn't. Points would have only added to 60 on my licence, money was only $120 but it was bogus so I spent 3 days in court defending myself. The cop got on the stand and lied his arse off and the JP's believed him.

Fuck em all: I have zero respect

Add to that the pricks booking me for careless use when a car did a U turn in front of me and when I was young ticketing me for going too slow...........at the back of a line of traffic!

Cops are liars, cunts and killers

[peasea]

it could also be because eric davey is a crooked condesending prat if his handling of my complaints was anything to go by

they even tried to pin public complaints about my driving on me!! shame they couldnt get the coulor of the car right

I like the police (in general), am glad they are there, don't envy their job, but lost all respect for the complaints process locally some time ago

Hey, you'll get some gooduns, no doubt, but when the shit hits the fan it's the Three Musketeers all over again.
Compalints process? Don't start me.

[Mudfart]

it will happen to a family in a car one day...... we just have to wait, which is as morbid as it sounds. however then there will be the cries of the cages. i dont beleive it is an issue of the guy being on a bike, its simply the definition of him being a road user.
the police and or govt ministers using the media to over emphasize that it was a bike rider, shows they have found an out clause.
some factors made clear in the campbell report: point of impact was at the double yellow. The cop definately had (a) yellow strip on his side of road. Turn attempt was a 3 pointer. And the cop holding the high stick, I think was an attempt to reconstruct the visibility of the blind hill.
The cop who didnt know what hit him truly must have felt terror at the time of the incident, he knew something had hit him, or he hit something, but he had no idea what. He must have been thinking he may have killed a family.

[miloking]

Yup. Be careful what we wish for.

Stop all patrols, use them as crash attendance only. *555? take it away - following a drunk/dangerous driver? Too bad. Someone's cutting in, overtaking dangerous etc etc - too bad. Can't run the risk of a pursuit occurring, so they just carry on doing what they're doing.


Nobody said stop all the patrols, all Iam saying is stop them from being dangerous cunts preaching about safety.

[candor]

AND if it was you or me we would have been charged with careless use causing death by now

I think Campbell deliberately picked those prop cop comments. As far as charges it's a 6 month statute of limitations and serious crash reports need doing first which take months to get back. If the cop is a decent type I think he'll prolly be wishing it was him gone instead. Presuming that since he ?chose traffic duties and attends crashes he may actually have a special interest and value life more than most.
As for Police - the Institution - how can there be 4 investigations yet noone has even taken a statement from the witness? I bet any other type of homicide the eye witness would have been seen by now.

[peasea]

Huge condolences to Pauls family and friends: is there anything the KBers can do to help his family?

Cops? Liars and asswipes just reconfirmed for me last year and again recently.

1. Last year I (and a couple of others) tried to save a bikers life but failed. When the cops got there I heard them pronounce "speed was the major factor" but nobody paid any attention to three of us who KNOW the rider was going MUCH slower than us and was probably 30kph under the speed limit. Surprise surprise; the coroner didn't even call for our opinion as eye witnesses.

2. Busted for speeding when I wasn't. Points would have only added to 60 on my licence, money was only $120 but it was bogus so I spent 3 days in court defending myself. The cop got on the stand and lied his arse off and the JP's believed him.

Fuck em all: I have zero respect

Add to that the pricks booking me for careless use when a car did a U turn in front of me and when I was young ticketing me for going too slow...........at the back of a line of traffic!

Cops are liars, cunts and killers

Thank you!
:Punk::Punk::Punk::yes::yes::yes:

[nsrpaul]

good point made a few posts up

this issue is raw with us because it involves a bike rider, but it is of little relevance

could have been any road user, only difference is the dent in the cop car

[doc]

Just finished watching Campbell live. Already, without the 4 investigations that are involved in this being completed. There were comments made at the end of it about motorcyclists behaviour that the public perceived that the motorcyclist was at fault because of our behaviour on the roads.
We don't present ourselves as responsible users on the roads. Can't ever see us changing that either.

[miloking]

The cop who didnt know what hit him truly must have felt terror at the time of the incident, he knew something had hit him, or he hit something, but he had no idea what. He must have been thinking he may have killed a family.

yeah terror alright, more likely he knew that he fucked up and if his buddies wont protect him and quickly invent some evidence and "credible" witnesses he will have to give up keys to his holden....

[peasea]

I'd laugh...........




.......except I was under the impression that, if we were to have a fuckin' snowflakes chance of addressing the ACC issue, then we needed the general public on our side.

Just laugh, it's easier. I think we could do with one, right?

[peasea]

yeah terror alright, more likely he knew that he fucked up and if his buddies wont protect him ....

Yes they will; worst case scenario for him? A bit of a beat up, lots of verbals and he might perf out. He won't do time but any one of us would.

[miloking]

Yes they will; worst case scenario for him? A bit of a beat up, lots of verbals and he might perf out. He won't do time but any one of us would.

If i killed a motocycle unit Cop by doing uturn like that...i would be already snuggling up to guy named Bubba in Paremoremo

[Katman]

If i killed a motocycle unit Cop by doing uturn like that...i would be already snuggling up to guy named Bubba in Paremoremo

Why would you both move to Paremoremo?

[miloking]

Why would you both move to Paremoremo?

Yes to get away from busy city lifestyle smartas :D

[bogan]

Just finished watching Campbell live. Already, without the 4 investigations that are involved in this being completed. There were comments made at the end of it about motorcyclists behaviour that the public perceived that the motorcyclist was at fault because of our behaviour on the roads.
We don't present ourselves as responsible users on the roads. Can't ever see us changing that either.

simple them vs us mentality, 98% of biker could be good, but the 2% will get us all tarred with the same brush. Also I reckon many cagers are jealous of our splitting capabilities:D which prolly doesn't help things

[peasea]

If i killed a motocycle unit Cop by doing uturn like that...i would be already snuggling up to guy named Bubba in Paremoremo

Depends how cute you are. Do you have a teddy and a security blanket?

[candor]

Is it ok to interview a main witness on telly about what he saw before Police have and when it may go to court - right to fair trial....
Could this get the cop off on technicalities if he's guillty and so possibly does no service to the aggrieved. Ethics/exploitation.

[peasea]

Why would you both move to Paremoremo?

Your arse would probably be safer there than Auckland Central. (Metaphorically speaking.)

[Katman]

Just look at what you're trying to create here.

You're trying to create a martyr out of someone who, for all we know, may well have been travelling even faster than his mate in the ute in front in order to pass him and give him the learn (don't tell me that thought never crossed anyones mind), in an ill-conceived attempt to right a perceived wrong.

Look where making a poster child out of someone pulling 150kph wheelstands next to a wire rope barrier got us.

Nowhere.

[Blackshear]

Posted yesterday, and already 39 pages?
Holy fuck my ass with the Black Steed.

Also, the CIB is my name :D FAMOUS IN NZ BITCHES

But really, what's with all the fucking u-turns on blind corners?

[peasea]

Just look at what you're trying to create here.

You're trying to create a martyr out of someone who, for all we know, may well have been travelling even faster than his mate in the ute in front in order to pass him and give him the learn (don't tell me that thought never crossed anyones mind), in an ill-conceived attempt to right a perceived wrong.

Look where making a poster child out of someone pulling 150kph wheelstands next to a wire rope barrier got us.

Nowhere.

If you're going to be sensible, fuck off.

[Pixie]

I think Campbell deliberately picked those prop cop comments. As far as charges it's a 6 month statute of limitations and serious crash reports need doing first which take months to get back. If the cop is a decent type I think he'll prolly be wishing it was him gone instead. Presuming that since he ?chose traffic duties and attends crashes he may actually have a special interest and value life more than most.
As for Police - the Institution - how can there be 4 investigations yet noone has even taken a statement from the witness? I bet any other type of homicide the eye witness would have been seen by now.

They don't want witnesses to muddy the water.Look at the trouble they caused in the Scott Watson trial.

[peasea]

Why would you both move to Paremoremo?

They used to have a hell m/c workshop up there but some fucktard in Corrections shut it down.

[miloking]

Your arse would probably be safer there than Auckland Central. (Metaphorically speaking.)

Lol,i would still prefer nothing ass related...so i guess better obey the road code then! :D

[peasea]

They don't want witnesses to muddy the water.Look at the trouble they caused in the Scott Watson trial.

Ketch, sloop, muddy waters, the list goes on.

[miloking]

But really, what's with all the fucking u-turns on blind corners?

Dont tell us about it, ask Indoo & Scumdog they will explain it to you....

[terbang]

Mr Rickard, Messers Schollum, Dewar and Shipton are living proof of the trust we can have in our police force.

[Dodgey Dave]

It makes no difference how fast the bike was traveling, the cop made an unsafe uturn. nobody in their right mind would make a uturn in the same place as the cop...its a 100km/h zone, double yellow lines and 70 metres from the crest of the hill! what if it was a truck coming, it would have split the cop car in half. sounds like the cop was actually having to do a 3 point turn as the road was very narrow!
and now we find out just 150 metres up the road was a side road where it would have been safe to turn around.
its all about catching speedsters because speed is measurable and therefore easy to issue tickets.

[Katman]

It makes no difference how fast the bike was traveling,

Unfortunately, the public see it through a different set of eyes.

[R6_kid]

It makes no difference how fast the bike was traveling

Actually it makes all the difference. If the bike hit the police car at a slower speed then things could be very different. If the cop didn't do the three point turn things could be different. If they ute hadn't gone past the cop 52kmh over the speed limit things could be very different.


How come the neighbour didn't hear the ute doing 154kmph ?

He probably did, but the article wasn't focussed on the speeding ute. It was focussed on the cop doing the three point turn and the motorcyclist that subsequently collided with the patrol car and died.

[NighthawkNZ]

double yellow lines and 70 metres from the crest of the hill!.

I don't see a double yellow line???

[Muppet]

Actually it makes all the difference. If the bike hit the police car at a slower speed then things could be very different. If the cop didn't do the three point turn things could be different. If they ute hadn't gone past the cop 52kmh over the speed limit things could be very different.

You're damn right it does, if you're going slower you have more time to stop if someone pulls out. If people here are so confident that 'speed doesn't kill' then tomorrow drive around a built up area at 80 km/h and see how long you last, right or wrong if someone pulls out on us at that speed we're fucked!

Has anyone here actually ridden a bike on that road and can tell us honestly if you were doing 100 km/h and came over the hill and saw a car doing a u-turn, could you stop in time? I'd be keen to hear from someone who's been on that stretch of road not all these 'would be's if they could be's' on this thread. Like I said earlier, you should be travelling at a speed that allows you to stop safely in the length of the lane VISIBLE.

[idleidolidyll]

more likely they will kiss ass and say only what their copper buddies want them to say

in my experience, the coppers here lie and lie then run away when the truth becomes all too clear

so tell us scumdog, patrick etc: what would you do if you saw a private car or even a bike doing a 3 point or U turn on that piece of road?

[peasea]

Lol,i would still prefer nothing ass related...so i guess better obey the road code then! :D

Especially in Orks. Worst cops I've ever had the displeasure to deal with, Wellington second.

Get out of town, relocate to somewhere where the air (and the cop fraternity) is cleaner. But not Te Kauwhata.

[miloking]

I don't see a double yellow line???

Fuck sakes, there is single yellow as per picture from this side and double yellow on the other....what fucking difference does it make father of two is dead!

[idleidolidyll]

was the 'speeding' bike the neighbour heard in 2nd, 3rd or top gear?

sound without sight is like sex with yourself

[miloking]

Especially in Orks. Worst cops I've ever had the displeasure to deal with, Wellington second.

Get out of town, relocate to somewhere where the air (and the cop fraternity) is cleaner. But not Te Kauwhata.

i heard Dunedin has decent fuzz? (as long as you are white and "local" )

[peasea]

I don't see a double yellow line???

I did on TV3 tonight.

[SPman]

nobody in their right mind would make a uturn in the same place as the cop....except about 3/4's of the drivers in the country......

[R6_kid]

more likely they will kiss ass and say only what their copper buddies want them to say

in my experience, the coppers here lie and lie then run away when the truth becomes all too clear

so tell us scumdog, patrick etc: what would you do if you saw a private car or even a bike doing a 3 point or U turn on that piece of road?

I hope you take the chance to go back on your word if/when the Police Officer turns out to be an upstanding citizen and takes the blame and any punishment handed down to him. What you are forgetting is that he is also gravely affected by the whole situation too. Ok, so he didn't die. But he is probably having a very hard time coming to grips with the fact that he has just killed someone - by accident. Not only that, but in his mind the road was clear when he initiated the maneuver, for all you know one minute he is doing a three point turn, the next BANG he's been shunted and now has to deal with a smashed up motorcycle, a smashed up cop car and a dead motorcyclist.

Put yourself in his shoes before you start taking the high and mighty attitude about a single person you have never met in your life.

[Maha]

i heard Dunedin has decent fuzz? (as long as you are white and "local" )

Well they did in 1974 man!
One hippy says to another '' I just got picked up by the fuzz''....
His hippy mate replied '' Fuck I bet that hurt''?

[peasea]

i heard Dunedin has decent fuzz? (as long as you are white and "local" )

Nup. Had a bad experience there too. Mate was in strife, bolshy bouncer etc., got arrested but the cops wouldn't listen to our side of the story; threatened to arrest me for obstruction if I didn't shut up even though I had nothing to with the incident but saw everything that went down. They weren't in the slightest bit interested in our side of the story. Fuckin' dickheads. Case was reduced from assault (which it never was) to disorderly behaviour (which is what I tried to tell them it was) and all was sweet in court. Fucktards.

[peasea]

Put yourself in his shoes before you start taking the high and mighty attitude about a single person you have never met in your life.

As should any copper who does a u-turn in a silly place.

[oldrider]

Actually, yes!
Your ears are surprisingly effective in this situation, especially at detecting frequency change. It's one of the reasons we enjoy music.

A little test that you might like to try.................r
Go out into your back yard and listen to the traffic going past your front gate, i.e. put yourself in a set of circumstances that you are well used to.
Because it's the frequency CHANGE that matters, you will find that you can easily pick any vehicle that is grossly outside the norm of the speed going past your gate.
Please, don't take my word for it - go and check it out for yourself.

And of course he completely understands which of the six gears is selected as the bike goes past! So much for sound effects!

That old prick should keep his unscientific "assumptions" to himself! IMHO :mellow:

[biker baz]

Actually, this might be a good time to suggest that cops take the Hippocratic oath..."First, DO NO HARM"

A bit of black humour for you. Iatrogenic deaths (wtf is that you say? - Simply put, death by medicine. Either adverse drug reaction or doctor stuff up). kill 1500 people a year in NZ - THREE times our annual road kill. No signs outside hospitals telling us oops, 28 deaths this week.
In the ACC accounts there is one called medical accidents, changed in the mid 90's from medical misadventure. This has increased 335% in the last 10 years.
Not only are we at risk from the 75% of accidents caused by other drivers, the risk of medical care has got 3.35 times worse, U turn cowboy cops after their quota are a menace and we, the victims get screwed for acc levies paying $30 to improve our driving skills to avoid the fw's who really want to kill us. Be alert, the country needs more of them.

[R6_kid]

As should any copper who does a u-turn in a silly place.

Why is he high and mighty? He made a spur of the moment decision to chase a vehicle exceeding the speed limit by 54kmh on the open road.

You may think that a person of his experience and training would know not to do so, but adrenalin does funny things to your thought process and can make you do irrational things.

[scumdog]

more likely they will kiss ass and say only what their copper buddies want them to say

in my experience, the coppers here lie and lie then run away when the truth becomes all too clear

so tell us scumdog, patrick etc: what would you do if you saw a private car or even a bike doing a 3 point or U turn on that piece of road?

Probably crash into it.......

Oh. nice to see you back - and the quality of your posts hasn't changed at all!:msn-wink:

[quickbuck]

was the 'speeding' bike the neighbour heard in 2nd, 3rd or top gear?


Well, in actual fact the bike could have been in 1st... capable of 170k in first...
As said though, really makes no difference at the end of the day. Paul is dead (RIP Paul).... It has obviously effected us all in some way...

The thing is, that there was more than one person who made a bad choice on Sunday afternoon.
Yes, Paul's mate was going a little over the speed limit in his ute.
Yes, the policeman made a bad choice where to turn around....

Can't really say what Paul was up to.. .we can only speculate.
There has been much of that going on by none that were there.... Much of the speculation could be because you know what you have been up to in the past... and got away with it.
Other speculation could be because people have witnessed such behaviour by some people in the past....

Really, like most "accidents" it is a case of "When all the holes in the cheese line up" James Reason Model (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_error_model)....

All that had to happen is one of those holes in the cheese not be there, and Paul would still be with us......

I hope some people sit back and look at their actions because of this.
It certainly has sparked debate. That's for sure.

Oh, and it isn't really the speed that kills... It is the sudden stop!

[biker baz]

Actually, this might be a good time to suggest that cops take the Hippocratic oath..."First, DO NO HARM"

A bit of black humour for you. Iatrogenic deaths (wtf is that you say? - Simply put, death by medicine. Either adverse drug reaction or doctor stuff up). kill 1500 people a year in NZ - THREE times our annual road kill. No signs outside hospitals telling us oops, 28 deaths this week.
In the ACC accounts there is one called medical accidents, changed in the mid 90's from medical misadventure. This has increased 335% in the last 10 years.
Not only are we at risk from the 75% of accidents caused by other drivers, the risk of medical care has got 3.35 times worse, U turn cowboy cops after their quota are a menace and we, the victims get screwed for acc levies paying $30 to improve our driving skills to avoid the fw's who really want to kill us. Be alert, the country needs more of them.

[peasea]

And of course he completely understands which of the six gears is selected as the bike goes past! So much for sound effects!

That old prick should keep his unscientific "assumptions" to himself! IMHO :mellow:

Maybe he's a kb'er?
Ya know; part of me wants to string this copper up right now but there's a part of me that says "fair trial required". However, when it's the cops gathering the evidence in a case where a cop looks to be at fault initially (however skewed that assumption might be) then I have serious doubts about the playing field being level. Non-uniformed folk need to be at the scene immediately IMHO to prevent any 'grey' areas.

[peasea]

Why is he high and mighty? He made a spur of the moment decision to chase a vehicle exceeding the speed limit by 54kmh on the open road.

You may think that a person of his experience and training would know not to do so, but adrenalin does funny things to your thought process and can make you do irrational things.

I was referring to the high and mighty attitude of cops in general.

[idleidolidyll]

I hope you take the chance to go back on your word if/when the Police Officer turns out to be an upstanding citizen and takes the blame and any punishment handed down to him. What you are forgetting is that he is also gravely affected by the whole situation too. Ok, so he didn't die. But he is probably having a very hard time coming to grips with the fact that he has just killed someone - by accident. Not only that, but in his mind the road was clear when he initiated the maneuver, for all you know one minute he is doing a three point turn, the next BANG he's been shunted and now has to deal with a smashed up motorcycle, a smashed up cop car and a dead motorcyclist.

Put yourself in his shoes before you start taking the high and mighty attitude about a single person you have never met in your life.

read the post: i didn't refer to the cop in question; i referred to the way the cop pricks here act when presented with any kind of debate that runs contrary to their propaganda.

but back to the cop in question; i don't give a rats arse about how he feels. my lifetimes experience has shown me they lie, manipulate and cover each others arses. I don't trust oir believe any of them and that goes triple for the coppers here

[R6_kid]

I was referring to the high and mighty attitude of cops in general.

Well rather than being a sheep and jumping on the Cop Bashing Wagon (tm), why don't you stop and think for yourself and see that we are dealing with ONE man, who made a mistake. End of story.

Remember, he is a Human before he is a Police Officer.

[scumdog]

I was referring to the high and mighty attitude of cops in general.

Quite right, they're all like that, every man-jack, the lot of them............speshuly them general ones.

[peasea]

Well rather than being a sheep and jumping on the Cop Bashing Wagon (tm), why don't you stop and think for yourself and see that we are dealing with ONE man, who made a mistake. End of story.

Remember, he is a Human before he is a Police Officer.

Rubbish; he was a revenue collector first and foremost. And I DO think for myself; I think cops are not to be trusted coz I've seen them lie in the box. Experience is a great teacher.

[peasea]

Quite right, they're all like that, every man-jack, the lot of them............speshuly them general ones.

I posted "cops in general". Have you seen a cop in a general?

Oh, of course you have, you're a southerner...(Duelling Banjos intro...)

[R6_kid]

but back to the cop in question; i don't give a rats arse about how he feels. my lifetimes experience has shown me they lie, manipulate and cover each others arses. I don't trust oir believe any of them and that goes triple for the coppers here

You're lifetimes experience isn't worth shit if you fail to realise that each person is an individual and deserves to be treated as such.

Until anything to support your mindless ramblings eventuates you may wish to refrain from further making yourself look like a self absorbed prick. All I've seen in the media so far is a Police Spokesperson choosing not to comment simply because no facts have been presented to him which support either person being 100% at fault.

[idleidolidyll]

"I think cops are not to be trusted coz I've seen them lie in the box"

that's 2 of us: i bet there are a lot more

the reaping and sowing thing huh!

[rachprice]

A bit of black humour for you. Iatrogenic deaths (wtf is that you say? - Simply put, death by medicine. Either adverse drug reaction or doctor stuff up). kill 1500 people a year in NZ - THREE times our annual road kill. No signs outside hospitals telling us oops, 28 deaths this week.
In the ACC accounts there is one called medical accidents, changed in the mid 90's from medical misadventure. This has increased 335% in the last 10 years.
Not only are we at risk from the 75% of accidents caused by other drivers, the risk of medical care has got 3.35 times worse, U turn cowboy cops after their quota are a menace and we, the victims get screwed for acc levies paying $30 to improve our driving skills to avoid the fw's who really want to kill us. Be alert, the country needs more of them.

Bullshit and how many people does medicine save????
Just because something has got 335% greater there is no way in hell you can draw the deifnitive conclusion that medical care has got 3.35X worse

[R6_kid]

Rubbish; he was a revenue collector first and foremost. And I DO think for myself; I think cops are not to be trusted coz I've seen them lie in the box. Experience is a great teacher.

Revenue collecting? It's said the vehicle he was going to pursue was clocked at 154kmh. Would you prefer that he did nothing? If that vehicle continued on down the road and hit a school bus full of kids, would you then say he was irresponsible for not giving chase and attempting to stop him?

It'd be revenue collecting if the vehicle was doing 110-115kmh.

[scumdog]

"I think cops are not to be trusted coz I've seen them lie in the box"

that's 2 of us: i bet there are a lot more

the reaping and sowing thing huh!

Too soon, juust finished the ploughing, be a bit before they sow I reckon....

[R6_kid]

"I think cops are not to be trusted coz I've seen them lie in the box"

that's 2 of us: i bet there are a lot more

the reaping and sowing thing huh!

Cool. I'm sure if you were on trial, and all your mates were witnesses, they'd have your back. Am I wrong?

That's ok. You're allowed to lie because you aren't a cop.

[quickbuck]

Okay,
Last post.

For those that are spreading the Tar.... How does it make you feel when Joe Public pulls you up on the actions another motorcyclist has done in the past?

[peasea]

It'd be revenue collecting if the vehicle was doing 110-115kmh.

No doubt, and I'm glad you're now on record as saying that what you do is what it is; revenue collecting.

[idleidolidyll]

You're lifetimes experience isn't worth shit if you fail to realise that each person is an individual and deserves to be treated as such.

bullshit; that's a criticism made with years of experience with lying asshole coppers in mind
the copper on the coro loop rd last year pronouncing that the deceased biker died because of excessive speed hammered hom the point: the coppers pretty much expect and treat all motocyclists the same so why shouldn't we too generalise based on experience?

Until anything to support your mindless ramblings eventuates you may wish to refrain from further making yourself look like a self absorbed prick. All I've seen in the media so far is a Police Spokesperson choosing not to comment simply because no facts have been presented to him which support either person being 100% at fault.

mindless rant? you've been reading your own work again!

[peasea]

Cool. I'm sure if you were on trial, and all your mates were witnesses, they'd have your back. Am I wrong?

That's ok. You're allowed to lie because you aren't a cop.

So cops ARE allowed to lie?
Stop digging, your very own grave is getting deeper.

[peasea]

Okay,
Last post.


Good, you live in Bulls (funny) and ride a Honda.

[YellowDog]

I hope you take the chance to go back on your word if/when the Police Officer turns out to be an upstanding citizen and takes the blame and any punishment handed down to him. What you are forgetting is that he is also gravely affected by the whole situation too. Ok, so he didn't die. But he is probably having a very hard time coming to grips with the fact that he has just killed someone - by accident. Not only that, but in his mind the road was clear when he initiated the maneuver, for all you know one minute he is doing a three point turn, the next BANG he's been shunted and now has to deal with a smashed up motorcycle, a smashed up cop car and a dead motorcyclist.

Put yourself in his shoes before you start taking the high and mighty attitude about a single person you have never met in your life.

The Policeman was doing his job and made a serious error of judgement. We all make errors in our jobs. This one cost a life and this is something that he will have to live with.
He may of may not be a good person. None of us know. If this tradegy awakens the Police into rethinking their rules of engagement, then something good may come from this awful situation.

Last May I had a Police car 3 point turn to chase me after I was pinged coming over the brow of a hill on the Desert Road. I was amazed he took such a chance I told him so whilst he was writing out the $280 fine. It should not take an innocent death to bring attention to such a glaringly obvious failing.

[miloking]

Oh. nice to see you back - and the quality of your posts hasn't changed at all!:msn-wink:

What that fuck is it with you and Indoo, did you guys dream of being English teachers and ended up being fuzz instead or something?

[Jonno.]

People keep saying it was a split second decision but it wasn't: he had to drive to that spot, park in that spot. Think about what would happen. Like someone said if it was Joe blogg in his v8 pulling a "Ue" and took out a motorcycle cop it would be very different even if the cop was going 120.

[scumdog]

What that fuck is it with you and Indoo, did you guys dream of being English teachers and ended up being fuzz instead or something?

WTF are you whinging about now???:blink:

[peasea]

All I've seen in the media so far is a Police Spokesperson choosing not to comment simply because no facts have been presented to him which support either person being 100% at fault.

Careful wording for sure, it'll be even more careful when their own evidence 'comes to light'.

[R6_kid]

So cops ARE allowed to lie?
Stop digging, your very own grave is getting deeper.

Don't twist my words. Humans lie. They will usually take any means possible to get themselves out of a situation which could cause them loss or harm - especially if they believe they will not be caught for doing so. It makes no difference what your occupation is.


No doubt, and I'm glad you're now on record as saying that what you do is what it is; revenue collecting.

I've paid my fair share of fines thanks. Over $2.5k worth in the last 5 years.


Careful wording for sure, it'll be even more careful when their own evidence 'comes to light'.

Yep, and that of the other three investigations being run at the same time.

[miloking]

Revenue collecting? It's said the vehicle he was going to pursue was clocked at 154kmh. Would you prefer that he did nothing? If that vehicle continued on down the road and hit a school bus full of kids, would you then say he was irresponsible for not giving chase and attempting to stop him?

It'd be revenue collecting if the vehicle was doing 110-115kmh.

For all we fucking know that 154Km is made up story to "justify" this "mishap"....actualy for all we know that mystery ute doesnt even exist since not even Mr.Dopler Shift Expert Wilkin didnt mention it!

[peasea]

Last May I had a Police car 3 point turn to chase me after I was pinged coming over the brow of a hill on the Desert Road. I was amazed he took such a chance I told him so whilst he was writing out the $280 fine. It should not take an innocent death to bring attention to such a glaringly obvious failing.

And did he listen? Like fuck he did.

[quickbuck]

Good, you live in Bulls (funny) and ride a Honda.

Okay, i told a little lie... not the last post:

I'm man enough to admit i ride 3 Hondas.... and you are spreading that tar again....
I live in Bulls because of work. Not a local at all.... In fact I still have the eye patch from my home town.

Point is.... You bit first. Did it get to you?

[idleidolidyll]

Cool. I'm sure if you were on trial, and all your mates were witnesses, they'd have your back. Am I wrong?

That's ok. You're allowed to lie because you aren't a cop.

Actually i've never defended myself in court before: I've always paid my fines and taken my points because i knew i was guilty except for twice: once when i was prosecuted under bogus cop crap when i was out of the country and the other when i was a naive kid like you.

as far as the court is concerned if a cop is saying you were speeding; you are guilty until proven innocent and proving a negative is next to impossible.

fuck em all, that road was a dangerous place for any kind of turn and the cop is guilty regardless of the speed of the bike.

[miloking]

WTF are you whinging about now???:blink:

Nothing, its just that iam trying to have civilized convesation with you guys and all i hear is: "bad grammar" and "get some english lessons" from Indoo and then you come up with "quality of posts" comment....

[scumdog]

Careful wording for sure, it'll be even more careful when their own evidence 'comes to light'.

Why is there no independent group prepared to leap from their bat-cave every time there's a crash involving a cop car and conduct their own crusade to bring to light the 'true' facts?

I thought that'd be an obvious thing to do.

[peasea]

Don't twist my words. Humans lie. They will usually take any means possible to get themselves out of a situation which could cause them loss or harm - especially if they believe they will not be caught for doing so. It makes no difference what your occupation is.



I've paid my fair share of fines thanks. Over $2.5k worth in the last 5 years.



Yep, and that of the other three investigations being run at the same time.

And everyone says cops are human, right. so you're admitting that they lie, cheers.
How much in fines? Slow learner eh?

As for twisting your words; I learned from the likes of you. Cheers again.

[peasea]

Don't twist my words. Humans lie. They will usually take any means possible to get themselves out of a situation which could cause them loss or harm - especially if they believe they will not be caught for doing so. It makes no difference what your occupation is.



I've paid my fair share of fines thanks. Over $2.5k worth in the last 5 years.



Yep, and that of the other three investigations being run at the same time.

And everyone says cops are human, right? So you're admitting that they lie, cheers.

How much in fines? Slow learner eh?

As for twisting your words; I learned from the likes of you. Cheers again.

[peasea]

Why is there no independent group prepared to leap from their bat-cave every time there's a crash involving a cop car and conduct their own crusade to bring to light the 'true' facts?

I thought that'd be an obvious thing to do.

You tell me.

[quickbuck]

"....actualy for all we know that mystery ute doesnt even exist

Well, if you have been actually following the news, rather than MSU, you would realise the Mazda Ute was being driven by Pauls best mate.

[scumdog]

Nothing, its just that iam trying to have civilized convesation with you guys and all i hear is: "bad grammar" and "get some english lessons" and then you come up with "quality of posts" comment....

Stay here long enough sonny and you'll see what I'm on about.:yes:

And since when is it your business what I post thats directed at other KBers?

Are you the KB anti-bullying police or something?:shifty:

[peasea]

Okay, i told a little lie... not the last post:

I'm man enough to admit i ride 3 Hondas.... and you are spreading that tar again....
I live in Bulls because of work. Not a local at all.... In fact I still have the eye patch from my home town.

Point is.... You bit first. Did it get to you?

No, were you trying?

[peasea]

Stay here long enough sonny and you'll see what I'm on about.:yes:

And since when is it your business what I post thats directed at other KBers?

Are you the KB anti-bullying police or something?:shifty:

Anti bullying and police should not be in the same sentence.

[Katman]

For all we fucking know that 154Km is made up story to "justify" this "mishap"....actualy for all we know that mystery ute doesnt even exist since not even Mr.Dopler Shift Expert Wilkin didnt mention it!

"Mystery ute"????????

You're really not very bright, are you?

[scumdog]

You tell me.

(Awaits peasea strapping on his cape and commence crusading...)

[R6_kid]

For all we fucking know that 154Km is made up story to "justify" this "mishap"....actualy for all we know that mystery ute doesnt even exist since not even Mr.Dopler Shift Expert Wilkin didnt mention it!

From the Harold:
"However, Carl Jackson, of Jackson Engineering, where Mr Brown worked part-time, told the Herald Mr Brown had been following his ute as the pair headed to their respective homes after spending time at a friend's house on Sunday afternoon."

Spooky coincidence huh!?

[quickbuck]

No, were you trying?

Nope.... Just asking...

[miloking]

Why is there no independent group prepared to leap from their bat-cave every time there's a crash involving a cop car and conduct their own crusade to bring to light the 'true' facts?

I thought that'd be an obvious thing to do.

I think they wouldnt need to live in cave...i think they would be quite busy full time in this country!

[idleidolidyll]

miloking;
i'm not concerned with scummy's prattle. I've seen him and his buddies close ranks on KB and lie, bullshit and evade anytime the truth is too close

they are easy and when the goinmg gets tough; the cops show their true colours

[peasea]

(Awaits peasea strapping on his cape and commence crusading...)

You'll be waiting a while.

My cape's at the dry cleaners.

[YellowDog]

[COLOR=DarkOrange]that road was a dangerous place for any kind of turn and the cop is guilty regardless of the speed of the bike.

I do hope they don't come out with "the bike was going over the speed limit and that is where the fault lies" .

IMO - based upon what I have seen, the cop made a serious error and something in the way Police are allowed to do their job needs to be addressed.

[peasea]

From the Harold:
"However, Carl Jackson, of Jackson Engineering, where Mr Brown worked part-time, told the Herald Mr Brown had been following his ute as the pair headed to their respective homes after spending time at a friend's house on Sunday afternoon."

Spooky coincidence huh!?

Nothing spooky about it.

[miloking]

From the Harold:
"However, Carl Jackson, of Jackson Engineering, where Mr Brown worked part-time, told the Herald Mr Brown had been following his ute as the pair headed to their respective homes after spending time at a friend's house on Sunday afternoon."

Spooky coincidence huh!?

Well it cant be that very same ute because police is still looking for the ute to come forward, so it is coincidence but as you said probably just spooky one....

[miloking]

"Mystery ute"????????

You're really not very bright, are you?

Yes iam bit slow when it comes down to made up evidence and false witness satements....so are you also saying that Mr.Jackson is the fast ute???

[quickbuck]

Nothing spooky about it.

This I agree with....
Some can't see the picture..... BUT, I must say it is a speculation (the picture I have), and I am not going to spout off my speculation and bash anybody until all the investigations are complete.
Really, speculation doesn't help.

It doesn't help the investigations.
It doesn't help the hurt the friends and family are feeling.
It doesn't help the Policeman.
And most of all, speculation will never bring Paul back.

All holes in the cheese....

[quickbuck]

....so are you also saying that Mr.Jackson is the fast ute???

Mr Jackson did say that he had overtaken Paul, and may have been going a little over the limit.
Saw the police car put his lights on, and hit the brakes. Then there was no pursuit.... He wondered what happened.

None of that is speculation.
That is what Mr Jackson said, if I recall it all correctly.

[Katman]

I think cops are not to be trusted coz I've seen them lie in the box.

Don't forget - I've been there as well.

I'll still look upon that prick as an individual though.

[R6_kid]

Nothing spooky about it.

What are you talking about. It's heaps spooky. Spooky like Mystery Inc and Scooby Doo.


Well it cant be that very same ute because police is still looking for the ute to come forward, so it is coincidence but as you said probably just spooky one....

Just because the guy said it wasn't him doesn't mean it wasn't - doesn't mean it was. Remember what I said earlier about humans?

[idleidolidyll]

yep, that's about right

so the ute overtook the bike and was doing '154' or 'a little over the limit' when the cop picked it up on radar?
bike probably wasn't going particularly fast then

[quickbuck]

bike probably wasn't going particularly fast then
May not have been......

[R6_kid]

yep, that's about right

so the ute overtook the bike and was doing '154' or 'a little over the limit' when the cop picked it up on radar?
bike probably wasn't going particularly fast then

Shit. I didn't know you were there.

[idleidolidyll]

all those 'individuals' in trusted positions sure add up to a hell of a lot of liars in positions of power don't they Katman.....................
sometimes generalisations are worthwhile; that's how procedures can be changed and reforms can be passed; governments generalise all the time

[Mr Merde]

You take a kid just out of school, you give him a fast car and a uniform.

Whats the difference to those kids who build their own car and thrash them.

The same adrenilne the same rush. YThe only difference is that these kids with the uniforms think they dont have to obey the same rules as us as they are cops.

I distrust the police with a vengance. I have taught my kids to never go to the police for any reason as it is a waste of time.

I've seen it all before and the police will look after their own.

Look at that officer who shot a civilian on the motorway. If I'd have shot another hunter I will be facing charges. he gets off with disobeying all the basic firearms rules.

The police are a closed society that protect their own at the expense of us that afford them the employment.

Fuck them

[idleidolidyll]

the guy was on the news; try to keep up r6_kid

[Katman]

all those 'individuals' in trusted positions sure add up to a hell of a lot of liars in positions of power don't they Katman.....................
sometimes generalisations are worthwhile; that's how procedures can be changed and reforms can be passed; governments generalise all the time

And I exposed that individual in a Court of Appeal.

And then laid a complaint with the IPCA.

What do you do about it Mike? - (Other than whine on the internets about it).

You're all piss and wind.

[Mr Merde]

In the UK where your rates have a itemised section for policing. I refused to pay that part of my rates. paid everything else but refused to pay for ineptitue and corruption. Given the choice I would do so again.

[idleidolidyll]

I paid the bullshit fine because there is fuck all chance that i'd win based on what i saw in court and i've already lost 3 days wages defending 20 points and a $120 fine.

But what it DOES is more important: it increases my disrespect for the fucking cops and now i'll call them all liars and film them when they stop me

I also laid a complaint with the IPCA but I expect nothing from it because the cops are investigating cops

[R6_kid]

the guy was on the news; try to keep up r6_kid

Sorry I was donating my precious O- blood so that it can be used in emergency situations to save lives.

[miloking]

You take a kid just out of school, you give him a fast car and a uniform.

Whats the difference to those kids who build their own car and thrash them.

The same adrenilne the same rush. YThe only difference is that these kids with the uniforms think they dont have to obey the same rules as us as they are cops.

I distrust the police with a vengance. I have taught my kids to never go to the police for any reason as it is a waste of time.

I've seen it all before and the police will look after their own.

Look at that officer who shot a civilian on the motorway. If I'd have shot another hunter I will be facing charges. he gets off with disobeying all the basic firearms rules.

The police are a closed society that protect their own at the expense of us that afford them the employment.

Fuck them

Positive rep comming your way sir.

[idleidolidyll]

Sorry I was donating my precious O- blood so that it can be used in emergency situations to save lives.

good for you but do try to keep up

they won't take my blood because i lived in the UK 30 years ago

[Mr Merde]

good for you but do try to keep up

they won't take my blood because i lived in the UK 30 years ago

Same here. Only O+ but they took all the plasma I could donate in the UK. Here I am unclean.

Back on topic.

FTP

[peasea]

good for you but do try to keep up

they won't take my blood because i lived in the UK 30 years ago

They still take mine, no swine flu to be found......

[Smifffy]

Ok, so maybe the cop made a mistake.

EVERY time I have ever made a mistake on the road and a cop has seen it, it has cost me $$$ and demerits, and increased insurance risk profile.

I guess I should just learn never to make mistakes.

Cops are only human they should be allowed to make mistakes.

We should be careful not to tar all of the police by the actions of one individual. Too bad there is not a single police officer stating that maybe, just maybe this individual got it wrong. They are all closing ranks, just like "the biggest gang in the country"

When I was a young fulla, 20 years ago I was tramping along a bit quicker than I really ought to have been, and I saw a copper traveling in the other direction, he flashed his headlights at me, and I slowed down a little, went around the corner, and took an alternate route, all the while expecting to see the whirling lights in my rear view. They never showed up and I carried on my way merrily.

Later that day, my old man asked me if I had been going a little quick on my way out in the morning. Apparently the cop in question actually did commence to whirl his flashing lights and executed a rapid U turn. In doing so, he forced another motorist off the road and into the gravel shoulder. The cop felt obliged to stop and check if the motorist was ok.

The motorist gave the cop a dressing down for bad driving, forcing him off the road.

Cop's response: "That car just overtook you at 127 km/h!!" to which the motorist replied

"Yeah, but he didn't force me off the road, you did".

Motorist made a formal complaint at the cop shop too. That cop had numerous complaints made about him. Eventually for whatever reason (not suggesting because of complaints) he transferred to the Waikato. I will probably forever wonder if it is the same veteran officer who has toiled tirelessly to reduce the road toll. When he was in the BOP he rejoiced in the fact that the local population had nicknamed him robocop.

It was a small town and I knew the motorist involved, he went round to narc on me to my old man after he laid the complaint ;)

[Smifffy]

double post removed

[Headbanger]

Cops are only human they should be allowed to make mistakes.


If you went to work, done something incredibly stupid and killed a person, do you think anyone would write it off as a mistake?, a mistake you should be allowed to make?

Likewise the people that are suggesting sympathy for the cop?

If you killed a person do you think you should get sympathy?, would you put your hand up and say "what about me?"*







*Not saying that cop involved has done that of course.

[Robert Taylor]

Am I interpreting this right by the demeanour of a few of the posts.................do only cops lie?

[Smifffy]

If you went to work, done something incredibly stupid and killed a person, do you think anyone would write it off as a mistake?, a mistake you should be allowed to make?

Likewise the people that are suggesting sympathy for the cop?

If you killed a person do you think you should get sympathy?, would you put your hand up and say "what about me?"*







*Not saying that cop involved has done that of course.

Sorry you missed the context of the preceding lines, but thanks for labouring my point ;)

[Headbanger]

Sorry you missed the context of the preceding lines, but thanks for labouring my point ;)


Swish.

I've been looking for an opening.

[Smifffy]

Am I interpreting this right by the demeanour of a few of the posts.................do only cops lie?

I think that someone said that ALL humans lie as a defence mechanism. Considering that cops are charged with upholding truth and justice, the general expectation is that they should not lie.

It's ok for the rest of us though.

[Mr Merde]

Am I interpreting this right by the demeanour of a few of the posts.................do only cops lie?

No its not only cops that lie, but they do take advantage of their situation and profession to protect that lie.

[Smifffy]

It's not a lie, it's a "summary of facts"!!!

[quickbuck]

It's not a lie, it's a "summary of facts"!!!

Economy of the truth?

[Smifffy]

Economy of the truth?

Oh!

Beautifully done!!

[biker baz]

"Mystery ute"????????

The lies of our esteemed world leader george dubya & co are slowly filtering down to the lowest common denominator the po-lice. Does weapons of mass destruction sound familiar?

[candor]

Lying ability and mind gaming is part of the job description if you want to succeed. •Geoffrey P. Alpert and Jeffrey J. Noble (in press). Lies, True Lies, and Conscious Deception: Police Officers and the Truth. Police Quarterly. published 17 November 2008
http://deception.crimepsychblog.com/

[T.W.R]

Haven't read literally any of this thread but this sort of thing isn't new by any means of the word.

My old man was a cop in the 60s - early 70s and he was collected in similar fashion by another cop on his way to work on the patrol bike by a senior sargent in a patrol car on Riccarton road Christchurch....the accident they actually had to lift the car & the bike off the old man to get him free.
Shit happens, and when it's meant to happen to you it does no matter what the situation.
Being a cop puts a target on your back and everyone loves firing at an easy target

[Robert Taylor]

The lies of our esteemed world leader george dubya & co are slowly filtering down to the lowest common denominator the po-lice. Does weapons of mass destruction sound familiar?

Heck it didnt start with George W! Lyndon Johnson was pretty corrupt and J Edgar Hoover was one of the grandaddies of them all.

[miloking]

Being a cop puts a target on your back and everyone loves firing at an easy target

Its not nice to shoot cops, plus you get in trouble for doing that....

[Max Preload]

But really, what's with all the fucking u-turns on blind corners?

I think it's because that's the only place they can hunt and meet the quota. The cops know that most people who exceed the arbitrary speed limit also look further ahead than the vehicle immediately in front and that gives them time to wipe off speed when they spot a rozza.

So the cops hang around blind bends to gain the element of surprise.

[gsxr&crf450]

I work in Hamilton, and had a Te Awamamutu traffic cop shopping at our car dealership. Since I ride a road bike, I asked him his opinion on motorcycles coming toward him at high speed,and what he would normally do in that situation, he told me that he imediately begins to turn his patrol car in front of the motorcycle, leaving a very small gap to pass through, but he said in most cases the riders are so surprised by his action they will stop as quickly as possible to avoid a crash. That is a quote....this traffic officer will write a rather write a ticket than let you get away...what an a hole.

[T.W.R]

Its not nice to shoot cops, plus you get in trouble for doing that....

I know...one of the locals from my old stamping ground did time for it & now back out of the big house has to have a minder with him every where he goes...apparently due to his anger issues :blink:

[Max Preload]

Am I interpreting this right by the demeanour of a few of the posts.................do only cops lie?

No. Nobody is saying that. People will lie to protect themselves. Very few, but the Police, will lie to protect workmates.

[bent12]

Two vehicles accelerating toward each other seperated by a centreline is no problem as long as neither deviates across the line, if either one does they are entirely responsible for putting put both vehicles at risk of collision. For me it makes no difference if the motorcyclist was traveling at a speed unable to stop within the distance of visible road the cop shoudn't be there, for fucks sake who does 3 point turns on the open road, the policy is deeply flawed.

Cops doing slow 3 point turns on our narrow roads in fucking aussie tanks with the turning circle of a tank this sort of activity may be better suited to a vehicle more appropriate to our roads such as an articulated Toyota Corolla.

[MaxB]

I heard on the radio that the cop in question is still officially on duty and has not been stood down. He is on leave apparently. Maybe that will change, maybe not.

That reminded me of an interview given just before the 'Buller Gorge Bridgeman' trial. They said that if Bridgeman was found not guilty he never could have gone back to his job 'cos his credibility was shot.

If a tiny amount of good can come out of this maybe its that the cop involved should never be allowed anywhere near pursuits again and the powers that be take a bloody good look at their deeply fucked up policies.

[cheshirecat]

Re Te Awamamutu traffic cop. Turning across the centerline into oncoming traffic is dangerous driving in anyones language surely. To do with intent could be attempted manslaughter or do they work to different road rules.

[miloking]

If a tiny amount of good can come out of this maybe its that the cop involved should never be allowed anywhere near pursuits again

And if he stays traffic fuzz (right after the public forgets all about this and his buddies "prove" that it was Mr.Browns fault)... then he should not be allowed to give anyone a ticket for U-turn or crossing yellow line for rest of his life!!!

[miloking]

I know...one of the locals from my old stamping ground did time for it & now back out of the big house has to have a minder with him every where he goes...apparently due to his anger issues :blink:

We its good to know they can also be scared of something else... apart from "dougnut famine" and pay cuts....

[Pixie]

I heard on the radio that the cop in question is still officially on duty and has not been stood down. He is on leave apparently. Maybe that will change, maybe not.

That reminded me of an interview given just before the 'Buller Gorge Bridgeman' trial. They said that if Bridgeman was found not guilty he never could have gone back to his job 'cos his credibility was shot.

If a tiny amount of good can come out of this maybe its that the cop involved should never be allowed anywhere near pursuits again and the powers that be take a bloody good look at their deeply fucked up policies.
Like they did after Bridgeman

[idleidolidyll]

They still take mine, no swine flu to be found......

I lived there apparently when mad cow disease was infecting the meat. After 30 years some would say that disease has already infected me and they are right not to bottle my blood.

seriously though: bovine prion disease manifests within 20-25 years and I don't have the staggers.
I'd line up to donate blood for my fellow bikers in a second if the powers that be would let me: ditto for organ donation

[Owl]

So what are the KB facts to date, that may summarise this thread?

1. Biker dies after colliding with u-turning/3-point turning cop.

2. There weren't double yellow lines.

3. Old people make unreliable witnesses.

4. Cops lie.

5. Christian Doppler should've lied, or just shut the fuck up.:shutup:

6. J Edgar Hoover is the biggest liar of them all.

7. Copious amounts of Milo affect the mind.

Did I miss anything within the 47 pages?:blink:

[Smifffy]

So what are the KB facts to date, that may summarise this thread?

1. Biker dies after colliding with u-turning/3-point turning cop.

2. There weren't double yellow lines.

3. Old people make unreliable witnesses.

4. Cops lie.

5. Christian Doppler should've lied, or just shut the fuck up.:shutup:

6. J Edgar Hoover is the biggest liar of them all.

7. Copious amounts of Milo affect the mind.

Did I miss anything within the 47 pages?:blink:

Interesting "summary of facts"

[smoky]

I think it's because that's the only place they can hunt and meet the quota. The cops know that most people who exceed the arbitrary speed limit also look further ahead than the vehicle immediately in front and that gives them time to wipe off speed when they spot a rozza.

So the cops hang around blind bends to gain the element of surprise.

And that is the main cause of the problem

I heard from someone who attended the scene (clean up), that there was a lot of talk between the officers attending about this so called speeding ute that was supposedly the reason the cop was doing a U turn. There was nothing locked on the radar to indicate he had locked on to another vehicle, and where the accident happened just happens to be a spot where this cop catches a number of people, the insinuation is that he was doing a U turn to park just off the road to sit there and catch people speeding over the hill. Not turning to pursue a speeding ute as claimed

But we shall wait and see if the facts come out or not. Police in this country regularly lie to cover their arses

[Fatjim]

Man there is some one eyed bullshit on this thread, from both sides, and the middle as well (no not a brown eye).

Look, the guy might have been speeding. But the simple truth is that was a dumb place to park your car.

There will be many factors in this accident. But if someone did a uturn in front of me at that point, I'm not sure that I, stone cold sober, doing 100kph, would guarantee I would have avoided the accident.

NZ roads would be a far safer place if people would just kept to their side of the road.

Oh, and someone mentioned, what if a cow or horse was there instead? Well the owner would likely be in shit if they hadn't taken reasonable care to ensure it wasn't.

[nodrog]

Oh, and someone mentioned, what if a cow or horse was there instead? Well the owner would likely be in shit if they hadn't taken reasonable care to ensure it wasn't.

of all the barnyard animals, a pig should have more of a brain than a cow or a horse.


R.I.P Paul

[MSTRS]

You take a kid just out of school, you give him a fast car and a uniform.

Whats the difference to those kids who build their own car and thrash them.

The same adrenilne the same rush. YThe only difference is that these kids with the uniforms think they dont have to obey the same rules as us as they are cops.


No doubt that's true. But not in this case...or the Buller Gorge incident. Both cops had over 30 years in HW patrol.

[Mr Merde]

No doubt that's true. But not in this case...or the Buller Gorge incident. Both cops had over 30 years in HW patrol.

So it is a mentality that has taken over the whole of the department. I find that very easy to believe

[MSTRS]

So it is a mentality that has taken over the whole of the department. I find that very easy to believe

Which is what some have been discussing...a certain amount of cowboy culture, encouraged by the quota system.
However, one would expect that officers who are in their 50s would have the experience and maturity to know what is/isn't a Bad Idea TM

[Mr Merde]

Which is what some have been discussing...a certain amount of cowboy culture, encouraged by the quota system.
However, one would expect that officers who are in their 50s would have the experience and maturity to know what is/isn't a Bad Idea TM

Experience and common sense go out the window when the "mob mentality" becomes normal. KB is a perfect example of this

[Swoop]

Why is there no independent group prepared to leap from their bat-cave every time there's a crash involving a cop car and conduct their own crusade to bring to light the 'true' facts?
That would be the "Independant" (stifles laughter) Police Complaints Authority!
Some say they drive a mobile Doughnut van, we just know them as the "IPCA".

Cops doing ... 3 point turns on our narrow roads in fucking aussie tanks with the turning circle of a tank...
Have you driven a VE commodore and know its turning circle?

[MSTRS]

Tanks can turn 180 degrees in their own length...

[bogan]

Tanks can turn 180 degrees in their own length...

at least 180 init :laugh:

[avgas]

Have you driven a VE commodore and know its turning circle?
Seconded - I can turn a Commo in a pretty tight turning circle. Shitloads better than my mazda and even better than the BMW we used to have.
If your skilled enough with the brakes I have seen people spin em on a dime.

[avgas]

No. Nobody is saying that. People will lie to protect themselves. Very few, but the Police, will lie to protect workmates.
You would be pleasantly surprised to see how many bikes would lie to protect other bikers too though.

[Swoop]

Seconded - I can turn a Commo in a pretty tight turning circle. Shitloads better than my mazda and even better than the BMW we used to have.
If your skilled enough with the brakes I have seen people spin em on a dime.
Exactly the point I was making. The turning circle is smaller than most would expect.

[avgas]

If you went to work, done something incredibly stupid and killed a person, do you think anyone would write it off as a mistake?, a mistake you should be allowed to make?
Very valid point.
However would you slam the whole industry simply due to the mistake of 1 in the industry. I am referring to the opening statement made by the OP.
The police force is full of arseholes.........just like KB

[terbang]

Its a fault within their organization, quite likely a hazardous, verging on dishonest attitude well entrenched within the lofty heights of their management. Some call it wearing blinkers, others would call it criminal..!
Most plods on the street are OK and really want to do the right thing (well they start out that way), but the organization they work for is clearly flawed as the road toll worsens and this sort of "chase em at all costs" incident continues unabated.
The NZ Police really should be subjected to the bright lights of an independent scrutiny and be held accountable for any negative findings. It just sounds like our Waikato moron was basically slack and complacent as he's probably been doing it for too long. Though probably well within the current culture of the organization.

[MSTRS]

The police force is full of arseholes.........just like KB

But do the arseholes actually know that's what they are...even though they perform a valuable service

[terbang]

Probably not, so they need it pointing out to them... But whether or not they take heed is a different story.

[avgas]

But do the arseholes actually know that's what they are...even though they perform a valuable service
Do the police know the law and what they are to uphold?

[MSTRS]

I believe most of them do know 'the law'...but some of them also 'know' that they are above it.

Not too different from us as a group, really. Most wear a uniform (riding gear), they like to hang around together, they have an 'us and them' mentality and protect their own, they do some good works, some tar the majority with their attitude/actions...you get the picture

[DougieNZ]

Without reading the last 49 pages...

Lets wait until a full investigation reveals the facts of the situation. Questions like:

1. Where exactly was the U Turn perfomed?
2. Exactly how fast was the motorcyclist going?
3. How fast was the motorclyclist going?
4. What were the view lines for both parties?
5. Was there a ute going 150km/h plus the other way or not? Does it matter?
6. And many many more

By making comment before the answer to these questions are known we are not doing justibve to any of the parties involved in this tragic incident.

I would put it to you that unless you were there (and often not even then) or impartially investigating this matter - then it is very difficult to form an accurate opinion on it.

Just one last question:

If you knew a ute doing a squillion kp/h passed a cop and then 10km down the road ploughed in to your family - killing them all - would you expect the cop to give chase? Would you be critical if he didn't do this as quickly as he thought was possible? I often am lead to ponder than question when i see the "driver killed while running from the police" headline.

We have seen from the Buller Gorge incident and actions after it that the police are taking these incidents seriously - whether or not you agree with the punishment the judge hands down.....

I am sure that this case will be no different.

I certainly feel for the family of the bereaved. Hopefully theirs and everyone else's questions will be answered in due course.

[Headbanger]

Very valid point.
However would you slam the whole industry simply due to the mistake of 1 in the industry. I am referring to the opening statement made by the OP.
The police force is full of arseholes.........just like KB

The police is full of arseholes, The job attracts them like flies. And the fuckwits they deal with just make them worse.

I wouldn't involve them in any situation in any circumstances if it could be avoided.

[SPman]

Remember, he is a Human before he is a Police Officer.
One would hope so...however...there are to many out there where the reverse is true!

[terbang]

Just one last question:

If you knew a ute doing a squillion kp/h passed a cop and then 10km down the road ploughed in to your family - killing them all - would you expect the cop to give chase? Would you be critical if he didn't do this as quickly as he thought was possible?



Dumb question really and falls into the what if, what if brigade. It would probably go without saying that most would want the police to catch the offender. But what this thread is really about, is that they should do it in a safe fashion without further risking the remainder of the general public. As in this case, they most certainly did put people at risk. .

This is a site for motorcyclists to discuss motorcycle issues in general and if an obvious trend of motorcyclists getting knocked off their bikes by police emerges, then discussion here is certainly warranted. As there is now.

[Max Preload]

But do the arseholes actually know that's what they are...even though they perform a valuable service

Cops aren't known for their objective self-critique. I AM THE LAW!

[avgas]

The police is full of arseholes, The job attracts them like flies. And the fuckwits they deal with just make them worse. I wouldn't involve them in any situation in any circumstances if it could be avoided.
You haven't had to deal with recruitment agents yet.
They make the police seem like they are providing a service.

[idleidolidyll]

But do the arseholes actually know that's what they are...even though they perform a valuable service

just like lawyers, politicians, burocrats, beancounters, insurance reps, real estate reps and any number of other occupations you might think of.

a higher standard is necessarily demanded of police specifically because of the job they do; they need to be squeaky clean...........but they aint

[MarkH]

Just one last question:

If you knew a ute doing a squillion kp/h passed a cop and then 10km down the road ploughed in to your family - killing them all - would you expect the cop to give chase? Would you be critical if he didn't do this as quickly as he thought was possible? I often am lead to ponder than question when i see the "driver killed while running from the police" headline.

If that happened then I would be angry at the driver that killed my family. I certainly wouldn't expect the police to act recklessly and risk killing another motorist to turn his car around to give chase more quickly.

From what I have read it has been suggested that if the cop had driven 100m further along the road he could have turned quite safely - I would expect the police to opt for safety as that is a big part of their job (or so they claim).

[Ixion]

We have seen from the Buller Gorge incident and actions after it that the police are taking these incidents seriously - whether or not you agree with the punishment the judge hands down..... Well, no, that's the whole point. The police (and by police here I mean the policy setters, the silver braids) are NOT taking it seriously.

We have clearly seen that cops driving dangerously, especially when initiating pursuits is a general problem. That's the real problem , the near misses and Oh Shit experiences that are happening , if not every day, then at least very frequently. Most of the time, the cop gets away with it, other people avoid him, cover for him . But sooner or later , it will result in a death or serious injury. Now, the problem isn't the death/injury crash. The problem is the day to day cavalier disregard of safe driving. And that problem IS being totally ignored by the police

What happens is , they ignore the day to day dangerous driving. Then when a serious crash does happen, first of all they try to close it down, blame someone else (usually the victim). Most of the time that works. If you crash your car into a U turning cop, almost certainly what happens is YOU get a ticket for careless driving, the cop gets nothing. And, it's not newsworthy so that's the end of it.

If the crash attracts too much publicity to cover up, then the hapless cop gets thrown to the wolves as a sacrifice. As Bridgman , the Buller gorge cop was. He was landed with a really heavy punishment. Not saying he didn't bring a lot of it on himself, but he still got well clobbered.

BUT - the important thing is, having thrown him to the wolves , the police did nothing. The dangerous driving still continued . And now it's killed another biker

Personally, I'm not too interested in seeing the cop hung out to dry. He should be charged , like anyone else, and because he's a cop he's probably going to attract a heavier penalty.

But , what I want to see, and what isn't going to happen , because the police STILL don't take this seriously, is for Howard Broad to stand up and say "Guys, clocking up another speeding ticket isn't worth it if it means someone might die. If you can't do it safely, let it go. And that's policy".

[MSTRS]

But , what I want to see, and what isn't going to happen , because the police STILL don't take this seriously, is for Howard Broad to stand up and say "Guys, clocking up another speeding ticket isn't worth it if it means someone might die. If you can't do it safely, let it go. And that's policy".

I think that's what we would all like to see.

[Indoo]

Cameras in cars as per the U.S and U.K examples would greatly benefit both sides, not to mention save money in the long run through reducing court costs.

[miloking]

Cameras in cars as per the U.S and U.K examples would greatly benefit both sides, not to mention save money in the long run through reducing court costs.

yes it definately would benefit both sides! I cant believe this we actualy agree on something i honestly thought its as possible as division by "0"....

[Scorp]

... most other civilized countries (europe) have 130Km/h limits on open roads (or no limits at all) so most people travel at 150km/h anyway and its not considered nothing but "little over the limit" but here its a crime against humanity!!!
I agree with you that chasing the speeder was a way, way lower priority than making a safe, properly thought through manoeuver (not to mentioning using his frigging radio instead of his car), but you're a bit off on European speed limits. The national speed limit on most A grade roads in the UK is 60 mph, which is 96kph. Most other European countries I've been in the limit is 100kph. Motorways/Expressways in the UK and Ireland are 70mph (113kph), while in France, Spain etc they are either 120kph or 140kph depending on its status. It's only the German Autobhan's that have no limit.


New Zealand is not Europe. In Europe:

1. It is much harder for drivers to obtain a driving license.

2. The construction and maintenance of the roading system is of a higher standard.
1 is definitely true, it's much harder. But on 2, I reckon the average condition of rural roads here is on a par with UK and France, and miles better than Ireland, where the rural roads are fucking deadly, even if you're driving a tractor.

[miloking]

I agree with you that chasing the speeder was a way, way lower priority than making a safe, properly thought through manoeuver (not to mentioning using his frigging radio instead of his car), but you're a bit off on European speed limits. The national speed limit on most A grade roads in the UK is 60 mph, which is 96kph. Most other European countries I've been in the limit is 100kph. Motorways/Expressways in the UK and Ireland are 70mph (113kph), while in France, Spain etc they are either 120kph or 140kph depending on its status. It's only the German Autobhan's that have no limit.


Ok not sure where have you been but I am from czech republic and we have 130km/h on motorway (therefore doing 150 is slap on a wrist) and so do the neighbouring countries, so yeah thats what i was talking about...UK doesnt count, their backwards prude laws are worse than NZ.
I wont even mention Germany as a point in this argument since their roads are smooth like butter so different limits are justified...

But yes getting DL even in my country involves month of evening classes and several tests with instructor as part of the exam and then final "full" test with police officer! so thats why we can have different speed limits i guess...(not to mention its approximately $1000 all up)

[DougieNZ]

Well, no, that's the whole point. The police (and by police here I mean the policy setters, the silver braids) are NOT taking it seriously.

We have clearly seen that cops driving dangerously, especially when initiating pursuits is a general problem. That's the real problem , the near misses and Oh Shit experiences that are happening , if not every day, then at least very frequently. Most of the time, the cop gets away with it, other people avoid him, cover for him . But sooner or later , it will result in a death or serious injury. Now, the problem isn't the death/injury crash. The problem is the day to day cavalier disregard of safe driving. And that problem IS being totally ignored by the police.

Gee - you make some pretty serious allegations there. I am not a member of the police and never have been, but i would be a little surprised if allegations of dangerous driving have been "covered up ,most of the time" as you say. Surely in todays world with intense media interest, complaints procedures, PCA etc it would be pretty difficult to "cover up" allegations of this nature. If I ever witnessed or experienced such behaviour i would ceretainly report it to the police and would not let it go if a "cover up" is attempted! Surely not many complainants would? Do you have any evidence or cases to back up your "cover up" claims? Are the media intrrested? They normally are - or are they part of the "cover up" conspiuricy theory also?

What happens is , they ignore the day to day dangerous driving. Then when a serious crash does happen, first of all they try to close it down, blame someone else (usually the victim). Most of the time that works. If you crash your car into a U turning cop, almost certainly what happens is YOU get a ticket for careless driving, the cop gets nothing. And, it's not newsworthy so that's the end of it.

Really? I saw some publicity in Central Otago where a guy had a conviction overturned in similar circumstances ands the media were all over it.

If the crash attracts too much publicity to cover up, then the hapless cop gets thrown to the wolves as a sacrifice. As Bridgman , the Buller gorge cop was. He was landed with a really heavy punishment. Not saying he didn't bring a lot of it on himself, but he still got well clobbered.

As I said this is probably subject to all sorts of opinions - so I'm not going to go there.

BUT - the important thing is, having thrown him to the wolves , the police did nothing. The dangerous driving still continued . And now it's killed another biker.

So - do you know they did nothing? I would be very surprised if a briefing was not sent out about the performance of U turns and extra training and briefings given in this area. Do you have any evidence that this wasn't done?

Personally, I'm not too interested in seeing the cop hung out to dry. He should be charged , like anyone else, and because he's a cop he's probably going to attract a heavier penalty.

This is my whole point. Should we actually wait until the results of the investigation first? Or should we just hang this person believing what we read on KiwiBiker or people who either weren't there or were talking to people who were talking to people that were there? Do we have the right to make assumptions both about this incident and about the police in general without any evidence to back what we are saying? Even if this police officer HAS made an error - does this justify the usual "all cops are scum and killers" statements being made by all sorts of people on here?

But , what I want to see, and what isn't going to happen , because the police STILL don't take this seriously, is for Howard Broad to stand up and say "Guys, clocking up another speeding ticket isn't worth it if it means someone might die. If you can't do it safely, let it go. And that's policy"



I would be absolutely amazed if that is not already policy. Do you have any evidence that it is not? I'm sure that U turns are mentioned as well as general pursuit policy that if the public are being put in danger the pursuit must be called off. But there must be balance.

Once again I reiterate that the family of this victim must be going through hell and looking for answers. But is putting the boot in to the police as a whole or making generalised statements going to give them any?

[MSTRS]

Once again I reiterate that the family of this victim must be going through hell and looking for answers. But is putting the boot in to the police as a whole or making generalised statements going to give them any?

The brother that was interviewed knew the area well, and was not exactly effusive in his praise of that particular cop...

[Scorp]

Ok not sure where have you been but I am from czech republic and we have 130km/h on motorway
Yeah, I meant 100kph on A grade roads, not motorways. Most motorways I've been on in Europe would be between 120 and 140. Never been to the Czech Republic unfortunately!

[miloking]

Yeah, I meant 100kph on A grade roads, not motorways. Most motorways I've been on in Europe would be between 120 and 140. Never been to the Czech Republic unfortunately!

Ok, i misread normal open roads do have 100k but yeah you would like it, lots of decent looking girls, cheap beer ...and corrupt cops :) (not always the worst thing if you carry lots of cash on you,lol)

[Ronin]

Ok, i misread normal open roads do have 100k but yeah you would like it, lots of decent looking girls, cheap beer ...and corrupt cops :) (not always the worst thing if you carry lots of cash on you,lol)

So lying cops are bad, corrupt cops are good?

Just checking for the sake of consistancy.

[miloking]

So lying cops are bad, corrupt cops are good?

Just checking for the sake of consistancy.

Seriously mate, cant you even get a joke?!?! (you know smiley face, and "lol")

let me clarify for sake of consistency then...

No, corrupt, lying cops are bad!!!

(i would go as far as to say "cops" are just bad..since being corrupt and lying is just what they do but maybe those are just european cops, i guess NZ might be diferent...)

[idleidolidyll]

hell yes!

the lying cop would not have got away with it if he'd had a camera in his car when he stopped me; in fact he wouldn't have even stopped me as it was bogus from the get go.

Regardless: I'm gonna go everywhere with a video camera now and film any cop giving me a ticket and i urge you all to do the same to prevent the lying bastards getting away with anything.

[Swoop]

Cameras in cars as per the U.S and U.K examples would greatly benefit both sides, not to mention save money in the long run through reducing court costs.
As if that will happen though...
How will they justify parking outside the pub when having a liquid lunch? Oops, that would be the detectives rather than the ticket-issuing automatons.

[miloking]

hell yes!

the lying cop would not have got away with it if he'd had a camera in his car when he stopped me; in fact he wouldn't have even stopped me as it was bogus from the get go.

Regardless: I'm gonna go everywhere with a video camera now and film any cop giving me a ticket and i urge you all to do the same to prevent the lying bastards getting away with anything.


Kinda like this http://carlosmiller.com/2010/04/16/maryland-motorcyclist-spends-26-hours-in-jail-on-wiretapping-charge-for-filming-cop-with-gun/

This happened to one guy thats member on 1000rr.net...got pulled over for speeding (wearing his HD camera on top of helmet ) and cop jumps out of a unmarked car without uniform holding gun,

(later on cops arrested him and entered his family home to search for the camera and footage after it appeared on youtube)

lovely breed these guys no matter what country they work in.

[riffer]

You know I've been thinking a bit about this. We've been so busy blasting the fellow for being a policeman that we've not noticed one interesting similarity between Bridgman and this new fellow. They've both been doing traffic for more than 30 years.

Now that suggests to me that they're both ex-snakes. Not police.

Could it be that the merger of MOT into Police has had a detrimental effect not only on public attitudes to Police, but also that some of the snake attitudes might now be having a detrimental effect on the actual Police attitudes themselves?

[miloking]

They've both been doing traffic for more than 30 years.


Yeah snakes alright, makes me shiver just thinking about how many tickets these two clowns must have issued and caused general inconvenience to public in those 60 combined years...

[bogan]

You know I've been thinking a bit about this. We've been so busy blasting the fellow for being a policeman that we've not noticed one interesting similarity between Bridgman and this new fellow. They've both been doing traffic for more than 30 years.

Now that suggests to me that they're both ex-snakes. Not police.

Could it be that the merger of MOT into Police has had a detrimental effect not only on public attitudes to Police, but also that some of the snake attitudes might now be having a detrimental effect on the actual Police attitudes themselves?

what does the term snake refer to? comes up quite often and I still dunno what it is, TIA