Orange Street Triple R on Akaroa Highway? (2 January)

[Madness]

This rider was supposed to be a cautious IAMS rider...

That is something you have made up all by yourself. Fuck this, time for reds.

[Kickaha]

We should all be dead the way these IAMs guys think eh. Maybe thats why the Govt does not fund IAMs training as they know the guys
have an attitude they are better riders than everyone else because only 10% of riders pass their courses.

Unlike the guys here talking about IAM you're actually coming across as a total cock

[bogan]

We should all be dead the way these IAMs guys think eh. Maybe thats why the Govt does not fund IAMs training as they know the guys
have an attitude they are better riders than everyone else because only 10% of riders pass their courses.

You generally find those taking extra training are not arrogant pricks who think they know it all, it's kind of why they go for the training. And the top 10 percentile are by definition better than the rest of us, why should they think otherwise?

[ellipsis]

...10% of recreational fishermen catch 90% of the total recreational catch...the rest of us just love fishing...the 10% that catch those fish are really fucking serious about it... the other 80% only wish they were that good...

[Gremlin]

You generally find those taking extra training are not arrogant pricks who think they know it all, it's kind of why they go for the training.
Ironically tho, as the cat says, those that voluntarily seek extra training are less likely to need it than the know it alls... kind of frustrating, and I can't think of an easy solution either...

It's not really about being better than someone else, it's more about being the best I can be at what I'm doing (if you're going to do something, do it well). Also found that as I had more time in the seat, the more newbies looked to me for advice, and the last thing I wanted to do was give them the wrong advice...

[ellipsis]

...oh yeah...the other 10% are either not fishing any more or drowned...

[James Deuce]

Dragged off by Stingray!

[dangerous]

This rider was supposed to be a cautious IAMS rider though a big difference or are they all as I suspected wannabe racers

shit I give up... tell me what this bloody IAMS shit is will ya???


The Institute of Advanced Motorists is not a training school, it is a registered charity, and it isn't a replacement for professional driving training.ahhh ok... so why the hell is it refered to so much?

[Gremlin]

But does hazard awareness not decrease with faster speed as your vison must become more focussed directly in front rather that checking whats coming at you from side streets as an example.
Absolutely correct, it's the tunnel effect, where, with enough speed, your vision is simply the pin prick in front of you. However, through training, you learn to see more at any given speed (as one has said, his eyes were opened by the number of hazards that were being observed constantly). Most are surprised at the number of hazards they aren't seeing first time around when raised.

[Berries]

These speeds are set based on specially equipped vans using a variety of sensors to determine the correct speed,
I wish. I get to sucker the thrust gauge on the inside of whatever vehicle I can borrow if I need to do the curve speed. Half the time it falls off.

Someone else mentioned setting the speeds based on camber and geometry. Unless this is measured properly as it is on the state highways each year it would be a pain in the arse to do a proper survey. Although antiquated the ball bank gauge gives results pretty close to the calculated curve speed anyway.

[Gremlin]

Its too bad no other training school has been discussed as an alternative to IAMs although 1 poster did give the name of it. I am
guessing though the IAMS guys would still consider those who did other school courses less in ability than them.
The Institute of Advanced Motorists is not a training school, it is a registered charity, and it isn't a replacement for professional driving training.

Damn, I thought I'd succeeded in passing on at least that much...

[bogan]

I am not rubbishing training as such but another poster said it would give some a feeling of overconfidence hence the reason why they believed the Govt does not support IAMS being a part of getting a license. Those in support of IAMS on here certainly echo a overconfident attitude they way they consider all others of lesser ability than them. I have mentioned before the type of bike a person rides would also influence their level of confidence too. Its too bad no other training school has been discussed as an alternative to IAMs although 1 poster did give the name of it. I am
guessing though the IAMS guys would still consider those who did other school courses less in ability than them.

You seem to be confused, thinking they are better riders than others is not overconfidence, not if they can pass a test 90% of riders would fail.

Overconfidence is them thinking they are better than they are; not thinking they are better than you are. I'm not sure why you feel your 34years of experience should allow you to say what is safe and what isn't for others, when you won't even allow them to decide what is safe for themselves despite have gone through rigorous training.

[quickbuck]

But does hazard awareness not decrease with faster speed as your vison must become more focussed directly in front rather that checking whats coming at you from side streets as an example. If hazard awareness did not decrease with speed there woud be no need for speed limits would there.

It all depends on where your focus is.....
For example IF you were to do 100k through your 3 metre wide living room (assuming you took the walls off the front and back) then it would seem ridiculously fast. Yet you are well prepared to ride at 100k down a lane but 3m wide.....

Your brain can actually take in a lot of information at once.... It is a matter of training it to.



Sent from my laptop. quickbuck is out.....

[Ocean1]

Fuck this, time for reds.

Offs, we're out of lesbians?

[SMOKEU]

sports bike which in my opinion have a safety deficiantcy in themselves in that your periferel vision
is limited by the lower bars.

I haven't noticed that effect on my GSXR600, nor a CBR900RR that I rode.


Absolutely correct, it's the tunnel effect, where, with enough speed, your vision is simply the pin prick in front of you. However, through training, you learn to see more at any given speed (as one has said, his eyes were opened by the number of hazards that were being observed constantly). Most are surprised at the number of hazards they aren't seeing first time around when raised.

How fast do you have to go for this to occur? At 200kmh (actual GPS speed) on a "race track" I haven't noticed that "tunnel effect" that I've heard a lot about. Maybe I need to buy a 1000cc sports bike.

[Madness]

Damn, I thought I'd succeeded in passing on at least that much...

You were successful if you count 99% as a pass.

[blackdog]

I get it now.

The nurses must be allowing cassina to use the computer in the day room.

There is more retard in this thread than at a redneck family reunion.

[ellipsis]

you bloody old grumpy prick... bet your a ginger nut, go back to ya banjo playing hillbilly harley... and leave the wanabe rice rocket rider alone ;)

.....k...........

[Madness]

Offs, we're out of lesbians?

No point. I figure if I post images of hot lesbians Cassina will see nothing but big yellow school buses being driven dangerously by unicorns.

[Gremlin]

How fast do you have to go for this to occur? At 200kmh (actual GPS speed) on a "race track" I haven't noticed that "tunnel effect" that I've heard a lot about. Maybe I need to buy a 1000cc sports bike.
Well, it depends what your "race track" is. A genuine race track has very little need for processing, you do it multiple times per hour etc. Also depends on the person, how much they are used to processing, how much they are used to the speed etc. I remember first sitting up when doing 200kph and thinking I was going off the back for sure. Over time, you become accustomed to it and things get easier.

I remember when coming close to stretching a 1L's legs that the pin prick vision really does exist, but then every little bump is sending you airborne, and the rev needle is dancing around the display. Best reason to think twice before trying, is that you're covering the majority of 100m every second... :crazy:

edit: Before cassina thinks this is what I do, this was years ago. Since then I doubt I've exceeded 150kph in several years, including while passing vehicles.

[nzspokes]

We should all be dead the way these IAMs guys think eh. Maybe thats why the Govt does not fund IAMs training as they know the guys
have an attitude they are better riders than everyone else because only 10% of riders pass their courses.

Wow, thats a big call. Can you tell me how many IAMs riders you have meet and spoken about IAMs with?

I have meet a few along with the head guy for NZ. I have seen no attitude about it, nothing. When I did my training with him there was no attitude. I am not an IAM member.

[ellipsis]

...hey Muppet, are you sure it wasn't me out on the road testing my ongoing project...an orange AC 50 that I have put an A100 motor in...it has a bit of a 'left outside in Haast for a year or two patina...?...

[skippa1]

I am not saying I follow behind slow drivers but there are many opportunities where I am able to use drivers travelling about the same speed as a guide but I always keep a reasonable distance so that if they if they leave the road for any reason I dont follow. You have said you have the ability to calm pillions so they feel safer. The IAMs rider should have had the expertise
to find this out before the guy even got on the bike or I am sure once they had got going a gentle tap on the riders shoulder should have been enough to get him to stop/slowdown. Of course it is always possible the pillion while feeling scared to death did not want to let the rider to know this in case he was to feel he was a wimp. If this was the case I owe the rider an apology.

This troll is a camper van driver, you can tell. Stop feeding him, he may leave

[James Deuce]

I am not rubbishing training as such but another poster said it would give some a feeling of overconfidence hence the reason why they believed the Govt does not support IAMS being a part of getting a license. Those in support of IAMS on here certainly echo a overconfident attitude they way they consider all others of lesser ability than them. I have mentioned before the type of bike a person rides would also influence their level of confidence too. Its too bad no other training school has been discussed as an alternative to IAMs although 1 poster did give the name of it. I am
guessing though the IAMS guys would still consider those who did other school courses less in ability than them.
Now that's a misquote. What I should have said is that the Government and its fascist Gang have their heads shoved so far up its collective swastika wrapped arse that they are capable of saying any old stupid thing to justify their mind-numbingly moronic approach to long term improvements in road safety and fatality reduction.

From personal experience, getting close to your own in length, the more training I do, the less "confident" I am, the more considered my approach, and consequently and counter-intuitively the less time I spend travelling from point A to point B with far less anxiety and almost no bad moments.

[James Deuce]

Oh, and IAMS is CAT FOOD!! It's I. A. M. road craft we're talking about.

Cat Food.

Cat Foo

Cat F

Shit, bored again.

TLDR

[Ocean1]

No point.

So, entirely appropriate in a thread about how other people orta ride?

[dangerous]

...hey Muppet, are you sure it wasn't me out on the road testing my ongoing project...an orange AC 50 that I have put an A100 motor in...it has a bit of a 'left outside in Haast for a year or two patina...?...or a orange XR12, and come on man try a H100 in a MB5

[ellipsis]

or a orange XR12, and come on man try a H100 in a MB5

...I'm trying to develop an under the radar high speed but very economical sports tourer, just for the AK GP...the AC50 seems to fit in well on HW75...I know for sure Muppet didnt see me on my orange sporty out on 75, entering and exiting corners smoothly...Im still using the terrible lines I learned from Dangerous...

[george formby]

Absolutely correct, it's the tunnel effect, where, with enough speed, your vision is simply the pin prick in front of you. However, through training, you learn to see more at any given speed (as one has said, his eyes were opened by the number of hazards that were being observed constantly). Most are surprised at the number of hazards they aren't seeing first time around when raised.

Perhaps at very high speeds, had a sensation like that going at warp factor 9 on Y'erpean motorways me'self. But.

Back in the day when the Iron Lady ruled the roost in the UK a certain Eurocrat by the name of Herr Bangerman came within a cats whisker of imposing blanket horse power limits on motorcycles in the EU. Somebody else without a clue trying to save people from themselves. Any hoo.
Mrs Thatcher got peer reviewed scientific evidence which showed that riders traveling quickly (fast) had increased awareness of their surroundings, better reaction times & made better decisions. The effect was more pronounced in highly trained riders. How this was fathomed I dunno but it was enough for the least motorcycle minded Prime Minister you could imagine to veto the proposal & save the EU from a max HP limit of 75 or 100 horse powers.
I've been meaning to get to the bottom of this wee historical nugget for a long time.

[ckai]

Absolutely correct, it's the tunnel effect, where, with enough speed, your vision is simply the pin prick in front of you. However, through training, you learn to see more at any given speed (as one has said, his eyes were opened by the number of hazards that were being observed constantly). Most are surprised at the number of hazards they aren't seeing first time around when raised.

Prime example is fighter pilots. They're not born vision processing freaks. They're born vision gods, then through training they can process even more crazy amount of shit they can see. One drill that CSS does is exactly for this.


I am not rubbishing training as such but another poster said it would give some a feeling of overconfidence hence the reason why they believed the Govt does not support IAMS being a part of getting a license. Those in support of IAMS on here certainly echo a overconfident attitude they way they consider all others of lesser ability than them. I have mentioned before the type of bike a person rides would also influence their level of confidence too. Its too bad no other training school has been discussed as an alternative to IAMs although 1 poster did give the name of it. I am
guessing though the IAMS guys would still consider those who did other school courses less in ability than them.

I mentioned another. Hello, I'm a wanker and have done the California Superbike School. All you other mere mortals shall bow before my greatness. Now with a training course called I.A.M and one called California Superbike School which do you think would be more inclined to get the "overconfident attitude"? The answer is neither. Judging something based on a very small minority is delusional.

It may not be your stance to fully rubbish those that do advance training or travel faster than you do, but that's certainly how you come across. And being so narrow minded as to not consider alternatives is - to put it very bluntly sorry - fucken brain dead and arrogant.

For god's sake, someone in Christchurch that is not all piss and wind, offer this person a ride on the back so they know what it's like to lean around corners.

It's like arguing with my 3 year old.

[ellipsis]

...well?...I do need to test the AC50/A100 two up sometime...I'm up for it...

[dangerous]

...well?...I do need to test the AC50/A100 two up sometime...I'm up for it...you be on the bitch seat right? aslong as I can get round the 2nd righty we will be sweet mate

[george formby]

I am not rubbishing training as such but another poster said it would give some a feeling of overconfidence hence the reason why they believed the Govt does not support IAMS being a part of getting a license. Those in support of IAMS on here certainly echo a overconfident attitude they way they consider all others of lesser ability than them.

In countries were insurance is compulsory, the insurers give big discounts if you are an I.A.M's, or similar organization, member. They have a far bigger stake than Gummints. Their bottom line.

[SMOKEU]

Since then I doubt I've exceeded 150kph in several years, including while passing vehicles.

I don't know how you even last a single decent length ride without exceeding 150kmh, let alone several years! You must have the self restraint of a saint.



For god's sake, someone in Christchurch that is not all piss and wind, offer this person a ride on the back so they know what it's like to lean around corners.


Yes.


...well?...I do need to test the AC50/A100 two up sometime...I'm up for it...

Make it a Hayabusa, or ZX14. That would be a thrill.

[ellipsis]

nt.







Make it a Hayabusa, or ZX14. That would be a thrill.

...i know the good lines, I'd smoke you , two up...even though I need to work on my right handers...

[george formby]

Can we extend the best quotes of 2013 thread to include January 2014?

[ellipsis]

...and the left ones too..

[SMOKEU]

...i know the good lines, I'd smoke you , two up...even though I need to work on my right handers...

You're probably right.

[Madness]

Can we extend the best quotes of 2013 thread to include January 2014?

Which post do you have in mind?

[skippa1]

I think this May be what Cassina sees in his head

[Robbo]

I think this May be what Cassina sees in his head

Or this could be him trying to figure what this thread was actually about in the first place.:brick:

[Blackbird]

In countries were insurance is compulsory, the insurers give big discounts if you are an I.A.M's, or similar organization, member. They have a far bigger stake than Gummints. Their bottom line.

You also get a good discount in NZ for being the holder of an IAM Advanced Test Pass. Well, my insurer does :yes:

[gammaguy]

...hey Muppet, are you sure it wasn't me out on the road testing my ongoing project...an orange AC 50 that I have put an A100 motor in...it has a bit of a 'left outside in Haast for a year or two patina...?...

although that project sounds interesting,I would have to ask why............

After all the A100 and the AC50 frame and running gear werent that much different if i remember correctly

[Katman]

Now with a training course called I.A.M and one called California Superbike School which do you think would be more inclined to get the "overconfident attitude"? The answer is neither.

I think you might be wrong.

[ellipsis]

although that project sounds interesting,I would have to ask why............

After all the A100 and the AC50 frame and running gear werent that much different if i remember correctly

...a fucked 50cc motor and a really good 100cc motor lying not a meter from the dead bike...path of least resistance...and everyone should fuck round with little bikes, no matter how futile and irrelevant it seems to normal people...it's going to do skids and wheelies...but not round corners, that'd be silly...

[macka77]

shit I give up... tell me what this bloody IAMS shit is will ya???

ahhh ok... so why the hell is it refered to so much?

its a training institution that's teaching cats and dogs to ride your own motorcycle

[ellipsis]

its a training institution that's teaching cats and dogs to ride your own motorcycle round bends

..............

[Gremlin]

I don't know how you even last a single decent length ride without exceeding 150kmh, let alone several years! You must have the self restraint of a saint.
Sold the sportsbike, initial period was hard, but now used to it, and it's normal riding. Lost my licence before I sold the sportsbike, then realised how much I really needed a licence. Pretty easy to figure out from there what I had to do. Besides, no real fun going fast in a straight line. Executing a series of corners has far more enjoyment. :yes:


You also get a good discount in NZ for being the holder of an IAM Advanced Test Pass. Well, my insurer does :yes:
You should actually mention who, could get them more business. Not sure if mine does, will check on the next renewal date, but then, they cover all my event riding (ironman, triathlon, marathon, multi-day cycle races) at no extra charge... so that's pretty good, as it's potentially high risk, just as long as I list them all.

[Madness]

I failed.

:facepalm:

Are you on prescription meds by any chance?

[Headbanger]

Thread of 2014 and we are only 6 days into the year.

All we need to do is get the fucker up to 180+ pages.

[blackdog]

I'm surprised cassina can ride at all with this sort of posture.

http://wemeantwell.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/head_up_ass.jpg

[Blackbird]

You should actually mention who, could get them more business. Not sure if mine does, will check on the next renewal date, but then, they cover all my event riding (ironman, triathlon, marathon, multi-day cycle races) at no extra charge... so that's pretty good, as it's potentially high risk, just as long as I list them all.

Alan, it's Protecta insurance. When it was renewal time, I simply asked and they said that provided I gave evidence of an Advanced Test Pass, they would be happy to give a discount on top of my 60% NCD. I was the first person to ask and they've now made it available to everyone.

[nzspokes]

The attitude I have noticed has come from members/supporters on this thread that they think they are better than everyone else because only 10% pass their course but where there argument falls down is as I said non IAMS are not dying like flys on the road. Maybe so much of what they learn is in the road code afterall the bit about hazard identification certainly is as I found out by being failed for it.

Theres no helping stupid.

[Monkfish]

The attitude I have noticed has come from members/supporters on this thread that they think they are better than everyone else because only 10% pass their course but where there argument falls down is as I said non IAMS are not dying like flys on the road. Maybe so much of what they learn is in the road code afterall the bit about hazard identification certainly is as I found out by being failed for it.

I have been merrily reading this thread with glee, (although i skipped a few pages), And I have to say, I thought Cassina was a troll, but if that were so, easily the best troll I have seen for an age.

Ill chuck in my two cents anyway, for arguments sake.

Cassina your argument falls over because you based your entire defense on the roadcode, gubbermint speed recommendations, and sweeping generalizations that the words Fast and Corner do not belong in the same sentence.

However, you do realize that this system is designed from the ground up, to protect the LOWEST common denominator??. there are literally people that can be considered mentally disabled, (not an attack on you) that have a license, and need looking after.
So any logic that says if you are cornering faster than the recommended limit you are dangerous, or that I am a rider in no need of further instruction and with sufficient skill because it was not in the license "test" (which i believe is pretty much a walk-through anyway). IS JUST PLAIN WRONG!!!

[ckai]

I think you might be wrong.

Done both have you? Would be interested to know the difference.

Besides, I'm never wrong. God is my mother (true story) which makes me Jesus. Meaning I'm not wrong, it just hasn't become time for you to realise I'm right.

[SMOKEU]

IAMS


IAMS

http://www.topnews.in/files/IAM545.jpg

http://www.savingwithshellie.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Iams.jpg

This thread isn't about cat food.


I have been merrily reading this thread with glee, (although i skipped a few pages), And I have to say, I thought Cassina was a troll, but if that were so, easily the best troll I have seen for an age.


A better troll than me?!

[Katman]

Done both have you? Would be interested to know the difference.


I believe there is really no likelihood of anyone going through the IAM process for the 'wrong' reasons.

The same can't be said about the CSS.

[ckai]

I believe there is really no likelihood of anyone going through the IAM process for the 'wrong' reasons.

The same can't be said about the CSS.

Are you speculating or have you done both? I haven't, so I'm not stupid enough to voice my opinion on the IAM system.

[SVboy]

I believe there is really no likelihood of anyone going through the IAM process for the 'wrong' reasons.

The same can't be said about the CSS.

If Katman ever had the balls to do CSS it would be wrong, no matter what the reason!!

[Monkfish]

A better troll than me?!

IF you can successfully derail this thread topic to cat food, than you shall have no equal. :whistle:

[SMOKEU]

IF you can successfully derail this thread topic to cat food, than you shall have no equal. :whistle:

I think I'll just sit back and watch the show, this time round.

[James Deuce]

Cat foo...:shutup:

[BigAl]

Dog tucker

[ckai]

Dog tucker

Get out! Just get out! Don't need your fucken kind around here!

[neels]

Dog tucker
Our dog likes tux biscuits for breakfast, some other stuff I can't remember the name of for dinner.

I don't know if feeding her IAMS would make her any faster around the corner into the kitchen or not.

[Madness]

I don't know if feeding her IAMS would make her any faster around the corner into the kitchen or not.

I wouldn't if I were you. I read in here earlier that feeding IAMS can lead to a superiority complex in the animal and over-confidence with corners.

We have a farm cat that came with the house. Horrible thing it is. It gets around half a small bag of Pams cat biscuits per week, costing me about $2.00. The fucking thing ate an enormous Huhu Bug the other night right in front of us, well worth the $2.00 for entertainment value alone.

[bogan]

One of these cats had IAMS for breakfast...

<img src="https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7981999616/h4147C66D/" />

[buggerit]

You would think based on the responses from the IAMS guys on here they would be so good as to not need it anyway. I have gone without full cover myself due to the high cost of reg and if I was as crap rider as they think do you think I would risk going without full cover?

Once every 6 months to get a warrant is not riding, but at least youre out of the campervan I spose

[dangerous]

Our dog likes tux biscuits for breakfast, some other stuff I can't remember the name of for dinner.

I don't know if feeding her IAMS would make her any faster around the corner into the kitchen or not.
DOG... thats not a bloody dog, its a girls hand bag powder puff :shutup:


..............farking ellipsis'sssss, like a plague on this thread


its a training institution that's teaching cats and dogs to ride your own motorcyclebut... I already know how to ride my own motorcycle and I dont let the bloody cat of dog anywere near it

[blackdog]

...I also exceed the safe limit like you IAMs guys...

WTF?

Your parents aren't cousins are they?

[GTRMAN]

You comment is quite funny that speed limits have been set the way they are to protect mentally disabled drivers/riders and I have often heard it said that those that travel above the speed limit are lunatics with a death wish meaning they are mentally impaired as well. I also exceed the safe limit like you IAMs guys but the big difference is I am aware there is a safety trade off and for that reason I am far from excessive with the time I spend over it.


For the benefit of the rest of us, can you let us know where you got the idea that Roadcraft gives anyone a false sense of security or overestimation of their own skills, specifically I am looking for what comments come from the forum posters and which come from the voices in your head because you hae gotten the completely wrong idea about things.

[Headbanger]

This is why I generally just stick to porn.

Way more simple

and stickier.

[Madness]

How can I have someone assessed as having a mental disorder?

You need to lodge a formal application to have a person assessed to see whether they have a mental disorder. If you are over 18 years and you have seen the person in the last three days, you can make an application to have them assessed. The application must be made to the Director of Area Mental Health Services (DAMHS) and be in writing.

The application needs to include:
•your relationship with the person
•why you think they have a mental disorder
•a statement that you have seen that person in the last three days
•a statement from a doctor who has examined the person in the last three days (the statement from the doctor must back up your claim that the person may have a mental disorder)

For more help with an application you can contact your local Citizens Advice Bureau or your doctor.

I wonder if just providing a link to this thread would cut it?

[jasonu]

You comment is quite funny that speed limits have been set the way they are to protect mentally disabled drivers/riders and I have often heard it said that those that travel above the speed limit are lunatics with a death wish meaning they are mentally impaired as well. I also exceed the safe limit like you IAMs guys but the big difference is I am aware there is a safety trade off and for that reason I am far from excessive with the time I spend over it.

:Oi::Offtopic:Offtopic:Offtopic:Offtopic:
I thought we were talking about cat chow.

[Geeen]

I wonder if just providing a link to this thread would cut it?

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Madness again.

[ckai]

For the benefit of the rest of us, can you let us know where you got the idea that Roadcraft gives anyone a false sense of security or overestimation of their own skills, specifically I am looking for what comments come from the forum posters and which come from the voices in your head because you hae gotten the completely wrong idea about things.


It was actually another poster that said that in relation to why the Govt would never endorse it. The question is perhaps is it the roadcraft training itself or the voices in the head of some on this website who have done it I wonder?

Sorry to be a broken record but it was asked for you to provide them. Dig it/them out and quote it/them here. You do seem to be continuously saying "It was actually another poster...", but what people are asking for is the actual quote.

Also basing your assessment on something being rubbish purely by the government not endorsing it is seriously, seriously flawed, especially when it comes to road safety. For one thing, we are very well known the world over for our lack of driver education and this is directly related to the actions of the government not specifying a structure educational system for road users. Testing does not count. That is not education.

On a more general note for your endorsement theory, the government refuses to fund several medications that have been proven extremely effective for some rather nasty shit purely based on cost and the small percentage of people that the nasty shit affects. Another example, the government decided to endorse rubbish tools used by diabetics purely on a cost basis.

You're going to have to use another argument instead of "government endorsement".

[neels]

So I am far from alone in my thinking there is no such thing as being fast and safe.
You seem fixated on 'fast'

Does it occur to you that your definition of fast might differ from my definition of fast which may differ from someone else's definition of fast? And that what speed you deem safe on your bike might be a considerable percentage below what is actually safe for a capable rider on a capable bike.

And for the record, relatively speaking I am fucking slow on the road.

[skippa1]

Originally Posted by James Deuce
Lol. The last thing any Government wants is a competent driver base. There is a firm belief in NZ that advanced training simply enables drivers and riders to travel at much greater speeds competently thereby making the accident bigger. IAM Roadcraft is based on UK Police roadcraft guidelines. It has substantial literature and practical guidelines thereby rendering it uninteresting to the LTNZ, particularly as its testing guidelines insist on independence from Government intervention thereby qualifying it as non-revenue raising advanced rider training.

Not sure if this is his personal belief but the fact he says its a firm belief in NZ just goes to prove that faster speeds despite having training do not improve safety
with the coment the accidents will be bigger. So I am far from alone in my thinking there is no such thing as being fast and safe. You guys need to look at vehicle crash test data to see how less safe a person is the faster the impact but if IAMS training brainwashes you to think otherwise think otherwise at your peril.

fuck off troll

[Geeen]

fuck off troll

Do you want some of this??

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/jq523f5c52.gif

[GTRMAN]

Originally Posted by James Deuce
Lol. The last thing any Government wants is a competent driver base. There is a firm belief in NZ that advanced training simply enables drivers and riders to travel at much greater speeds competently thereby making the accident bigger. IAM Roadcraft is based on UK Police roadcraft guidelines. It has substantial literature and practical guidelines thereby rendering it uninteresting to the LTNZ, particularly as its testing guidelines insist on independence from Government intervention thereby qualifying it as non-revenue raising advanced rider training.

Not sure if this is his personal belief but the fact he says its a firm belief in NZ just goes to prove that faster speeds despite having training do not improve safety
with the coment the accidents will be bigger. So I am far from alone in my thinking there is no such thing as being fast and safe. You guys need to look at vehicle crash test data to see how less safe a person is the faster the impact but if IAMS training brainwashes you to think otherwise think otherwise at your peril.

Seriously? That is your motivation? How about this, get in touch with Duncan Steed, he is an IAM examiner in Christchurch, talk to him and get a clear idea of what Roadcraft is and what it is not.

Or you can just labour under the mistaken belief you have the faintest idea what you are talking about.

Put up or shut up.

[quickbuck]

So... it is 16 against ONE... Shall i let her know who Muppet is yet???
Na... Still got to get to 150 pages.....

Fast*: can't be safe on the road.... Pffft...





















*Note: Muppet was probably talking about reactions.... something she will never understand.....

[Katman]

I'm guessing you are either; an old biker with years of experience, a racer, a ex pat POM with Roadcraft experience, an instructor or an ex biker cop. You were smooth, fast and safe.


He, like me, went around the corners staying as far wide as possible until he could see his way through and powered out.

Let's just take a step back and see where this thread started.

For a start, Muppet clearly can't tell the difference between a racer and an ex pat POM with Road craft experience - or any other sort of motorcyclist for the matter.

He then goes on to praise the philosophy of staying wide as long as possible in a corner before 'powering out'.

The reality is that, if you stay wide right throughout a corner and then attempt to 'power out', chances are you will end up running off the side of the corner you are powering out of.

This whole thread was fucked right from post #1.

[Madness]

I'd like to think I'm not alone in giving this twat as much red as I can muster.

[skippa1]

I'd like to think I'm not alone in giving this twat as much red as I can muster.

Yup.........

[dangerous]

The reality is that, if you stay wide right throughout a corner and then attempt to 'power out', chances are you will end up running off the side of the corner you are powering out of.

Its called 'late apex' and works very well... providing you know how to ride.

another words stay wide till a late apex then turn in and power on... muppet didnt explain it quite like you do. its not so black n white.

[Katman]

Its called 'late apex' and works very well... providing you know how to ride.

another words stay wide till a late apex then turn in and power on... muppet didnt explain it quite like you do. its not so black n white.

Have you gone through the IAM process?

I'm guessing you're another one that thinks IAM has something to do with pet food.

[pritch]

I'd like to think I'm not alone in giving this twat as much red as I can muster.

I don't generally hand out reds, and I have never used the ignore function. IdylIdyladdled tempted me but I find I'm tempted again.

Guess I should be grateful that he/she doesn't use the roads near me.

[Madness]

If poster 1 had actually left the word "Safe" out of his description of the riding there would have been no debate from me as I ride fast myself occasionally but am aware my safety is compromised unlike poster 1. As for the angle of travel through the bend i would have to see it before commenting.

Knowing just a tiny little bit about the OP, I'd consider his opinion of what is safe riding to be much, much more qualified than your own and that has absolutely nothing to do with IAM or cat food. I don't even know if the OP has a cat but I do know he has a few more clues than you.

[BuzzardNZ]

But was he not the same guy who thought he was going to die as pillion on the back of an IAMS riders bike? If he had a clue about safety he would have got the IAMS guy to stop and he felt the guy was a skiiled rider as he did not crash rather than think like most people would that he was very lucky.

You're not related to Pratik in any way are you?

[SVboy]

Let's just take a step back and see where this thread started.

For a start, Muppet clearly can't tell the difference between a racer and an ex pat POM with Road craft experience - or any other sort of motorcyclist for the matter.

He then goes on to praise the philosophy of staying wide as long as possible in a corner before 'powering out'.

The reality is that, if you stay wide right throughout a corner and then attempt to 'power out', chances are you will end up running off the side of the corner you are powering out of.

This whole thread was fucked right from post #1.

No-based on your myopic and uniformed viewpoint it was fucked. Your opinions are just that and your inability to consider other's approachs only further isolate you. Is your alternate login name Cassina by any chance? Imagine the temerity of Muppet to put positive feedback on KB! No wonder you were outraged.....

[Madness]

But was he not the same guy who thought he was going to die as pillion on the back of an IAMS riders bike?.

No, I don't think he was. Muppet didn't make any reference to IAM at all when he posted about being a pillion passenger with his instructor (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/162788-Orange-Street-Triple-R-on-Akaroa-Highway-(2-January)?p=1130658290#post1130658290). It is you that has imagined this reference to IAM and it is you that has ignored my own two previous attempts to point this out to you. Muppet may have been receiving advanced training of a different kind at the time, possibly even employment-related for all we know. To the best of my knowledge Muppet has not made a single reference to IAM in this thread, or any other for that matter.


You're too distracted by your efforts to continue this inane rant to see the flaws in your own arguments.

[Blackbird]

No, I don't think he was. Muppet didn't make any reference to IAM at all when he posted about being a pillion passenger with his instructor. It is you that has imagined this reference to IAM and it is you that has ignored my own two previous attempts to point this out to you. Muppet may have been receiving advanced training of a different kind at the time, possibly even employment-related for all we know. To the best of my knowledge Muppet has not made a single reference to IAM in this thread, or any other for that matter.


You're too distracted by your efforts to continue this inane rant to see the flaws in your own arguments.

But I think Muppet knows a practitioner of Roadcraft when he sees it :rolleyes:

[Big Dave]

and I have never used the ignore function.

Mine's at Sarge level.

[Madness]

But I think Muppet knows a practitioner of Roadcraft when he sees it :rolleyes:

I agree and I think that probably came with loads of training, expertise & experience. He probably knows a big fucking bag of cat food when he sees it too!

[skippa1]

I think we've all got it wrong. It's not cat food, nor is it training. Popeyes got it right,
292063

[Katman]

Your opinions are just that and your inability to consider other's approachs only further isolate you.

I like to shelter myself from the inherently retarded.

[Howie]

But I think Muppet knows a practitioner of Roadcraft when he sees it :rolleyes:


I agree and I think that probably came with loads of training, expertise & experience.

You both seem to be inferring that Muppet has undertaken advanced rider/driver training which makes me think he may be a member of the NZ police or similar?

if so if the NZ police use any form of training related to the U.K. Police Roadcraft book I would be seriously looking at if it is good advice seeing as the NZ police have spent nearly $11 million over the last 4 years on police crashes where the Police are at fault.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/9581943/Cost-of-car-crashes-escalates-for-police or so this link says.

[Madness]

You both seem to be inferring that Muppet has undertaken advanced rider/driver training which makes me think he may be a member of the NZ police or similar?

Surely that would be up to him to divulge on here if it were the case and if he saw fit to.


if so if the NZ police use any form of training related to the U.K. Police Roadcraft book I would be seriously looking at if it is good advice seeing as the NZ police have spent nearly $11 million over the last 4 years on police crashes where the Police are at fault.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/9581943/Cost-of-car-crashes-escalates-for-police or so this link says.

By the same logic we should be looking at the NZ Road-Code as the 254 fatalities on NZ roads last year might suggest that this document is pants also? The generalisation in this thread is truly epic.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/25412797.jpg

[skinman]

after killing some time as nothing good on tv reading this thread all I have to say is thank god cassina is in chch & I am highly unlikely to ever be on the same bit of road as he/she. Also seems to have fixated on the pillion story, has not considered the possibility that the rider had the skills to ride at what he considered a safe pace that was faster than the pillions ability allowed them to ride. I pillion my wife & do corner slower with her on the back so as not to frighten her but I have to get in the same bed afterwards.

[Howie]

Surely that would be up to him to divulge on here if it were the case and if he saw fit to.


You are quite correct that it is up to Muppet if he wants to disclose what he does for a living which is why I included the word "infer" in my previous post.


By the same logic we should be looking at the NZ Road-Code as the 254 fatalities on NZ roads last year might suggest that this document is pants also? The generalisation in this thread is truly epic.

[/QUOTE]

Actually though the road code is purly a set of rules to hopefully quide drivers in how they should operate a vehicle on the public road.

the worrying thing of course is that the Goverment may be basing it's stance on advanced driver training from the record of the Police who have had some form of such training.

[ckai]

Originally Posted by James Deuce
Lol. The last thing any Government wants is a competent driver base. There is a firm belief in NZ that advanced training simply enables drivers and riders to travel at much greater speeds competently thereby making the accident bigger. IAM Roadcraft is based on UK Police roadcraft guidelines. It has substantial literature and practical guidelines thereby rendering it uninteresting to the LTNZ, particularly as its testing guidelines insist on independence from Government intervention thereby qualifying it as non-revenue raising advanced rider training.

Not sure if this is his personal belief but the fact he says its a firm belief in NZ just goes to prove that faster speeds despite having training do not improve safety
with the coment the accidents will be bigger. So I am far from alone in my thinking there is no such thing as being fast and safe. You guys need to look at vehicle crash test data to see how less safe a person is the faster the impact but if IAMS training brainwashes you to think otherwise think otherwise at your peril.

Thank you for the quote. Here's one you may like:

competent
ˈkɒmpɪt(ə)nt/<input src="data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABAAAAAQCAYAAAA f8/9hAAAAcUlEQVQ4y2P4//8/AyUYQhAH3gNxA7IAIQPmo/H3g/QA8XkgFiBkwHyoYnRQABVfj88AmGZcTuuHyjlgMwBZM7IE3NlQ GhQe65EN+I8Dw8MLGgYoFpFqADK/YUAMwOsFigORatFIlYRElaRMWmaiBAMAp0n+3U0kqkAAAAAASU VORK5CYII=" height="16" type="image" width="16" style="height: 16px; width: 16px;">
adjective



1.
having the necessary ability, knowledge, or skill to do something successfully.
"a highly competent surgeon"






Do you think this could possibly go hand in hand with, say, oh I don't know, crash avoidance? Thereby making any competent road user a safer road user?

I'll give you another "firm belief in NZ". It is a firm belief in NZ to speed up on passing lanes and slow down when the lanes finish. What about, it is a firm belief in NZ that BMW's only have indicators as an optional extra?

You make the point that there is no such thing as being fast and safe. What you should be arguing is the physics not the persons ability. Yes, physics dictate that the faster you go the more shit hits the fan when things go bad and you hit something. But let me again bring in the fighter pilot. He's flying a plane at 100 km/h. He's used to flying it at 1000km/h. Apart from the fact he's bored as shit, because his ability and skill set enable him to pilot a plane at 1000km/h he has all the time in the world (compared to flying at his normal speed) to react to any crap that could happen. He's scanning so far out in front, it's ridiculous. His peripheral vision is so fucken wide he could see shit coming behind him.

Ability.

Now, you're flying a plane at the same speed. You're not Mr fighter pilot and you think 100km/h is warp speed. Everything is rushed to you. You have no time to process anything. Your brain is mush and is a blur of information. Because you think this speed is already too fast, if anything happens to you, your equipment, or something comes in front of you, because you don't have the ability of the fighter pilot, your brain tells you you're already fucked. Should we now get you to fly at 1000 km/h? The same speed where the fighter pilot feels at home and his brain still works better than yours at 100km/h? ;)

Ability.

The argument here has never been about physics but about ability.


Let's just take a step back and see where this thread started.

For a start, Muppet clearly can't tell the difference between a racer and an ex pat POM with Road craft experience - or any other sort of motorcyclist for the matter.

He then goes on to praise the philosophy of staying wide as long as possible in a corner before 'powering out'.

The reality is that, if you stay wide right throughout a corner and then attempt to 'power out', chances are you will end up running off the side of the corner you are powering out of.

This whole thread was fucked right from post #1.

Let's ignore that fact that even you would look far enough ahead and assess the circumference of the corner as well as when you can't see the exit of the corner. Damn the OP not explaining the whole process down to the last minute detail about another cornering technique when it was actually about praising another rider. Damn him! Damn him to hell!

[James Deuce]

I don't understand. Am I in trouble or not, and should I just eat cat food to improve my performance?

[Hawk]

I don't understand. Am I in trouble or not, and should I just eat cat food to improve my performance?

eat the cat food

[James Deuce]

Roger Wilco, good buddy. I AMS out to buy IAMS. And Spinach. I AMS what I AMS.

[BigAl]

Woof Woof............

[Geeen]

Lets take Ckai's argument about the fighter pilot and transfer it to a F1 car. The car is DESIGNED to work in a particular speed zone, the driver of that car has the Ability to process information at the required speed to make that vehicle work. Joe Bloggs Public does NOT have the brain speed or Ability to be in the speed zone the vehicle is designed to be in. This means that the brakes, tyres and aero are not performing as they were designed to making the vehicle LESS SAFE. So in this instance it IS safer to go faster. The majority of people dont have the Ability to live in this world of speed.

Aside from that, what I've read from what the I A M trained riders on this thread have being saying is more about situational awareness, Vision, hazard detection and self improvement rather than being elitist speed merchants.. But thats just me

[Monkfish]

You comment is quite funny that speed limits have been set the way they are to protect mentally disabled drivers/riders and I have often heard it said that those that travel above the speed limit are lunatics with a death wish meaning they are mentally impaired as well. I also exceed the safe limit like you IAMs guys but the big difference is I am aware there is a safety trade off and for that reason I am far from excessive with the time I spend over it.

Please actually read a post before commenting. although I suspect you are incapable, as your assumptions astound.

I say nothing of speed limits! not mentioned at all. I never even insinuate that the limits should be broken in any way, nor did i state i have done any IAMS course, which I have not.

However speed recommendations (the little signs that say the approaching corner is a 55kph corner) are undeniably and matter of factually, there to give road users with insufficient skill a RECOMMENDATION on how they might pick a speed to negotiate that corner safely. that is fact.

your claim that to do anything other than the recommended speed is unsafe is laughable as are most of your arguments.

PS please note i was using the mentally challenged as an extreme (but entirely truthful) example of the architecture of the system you love.

[Monkfish]

It was another poster that critisized the cornering techqnique I was just attacking the claim about fast being safe when it reality is less safe. I would have possibly praised the rider too but would have left any claim of going fast being safe. Planes can collide in mid air too so your argument does not wash there. Is there any speed you get up to where you no longer feel safe as opposed to less safe or is there just no such thing in your book as being less safe irrespective of the speed you are travelling?

Really?? you dismissed the entire argument on relativity because..... Sometimes planes crash into each other??????

OMG there really is no talking to you. :brick::facepalm::shutup:

[roogazza]

Some people :wacko:. He has so much talent,he said so !
If you have time watch this and the ending.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtofbxmlv8Y

[ckai]

It was another poster that critisized the cornering techqnique I was just attacking the claim about fast being safe when it reality is less safe. I would have possibly praised the rider too but would have left any claim of going fast being safe. Planes can collide in mid air too so your argument does not wash there. Is there any speed you get up to where you no longer feel safe as opposed to less safe or is there just no such thing in your book as being less safe irrespective of the speed you are travelling?

I know it was another rider that criticised the cornering technique, hence why I quoted them and discussed that issue with them. And why I didn't mention anything about cornering with what I was discussing with you. Multi-talented - 2 discussions at once.

From the original post:

"You were smooth, fast and safe"

I don't believe Muppet was saying fast was safe. To be honest I believe he's made a grammatical by missing a a comma (also known as the oxford comma) which is extremely common and something that I always did only until recently.

What I believe he meant to say was:

"You were smooth, fast, and safe"

I believe he was referring to his cornering technique and smoothness for the reason for him being safe.

Or, putting it another way, his ABILITY.

You have also completely missed my point regarding planes. You seem to be fixated on equipment. Would you like me to give you another example with 2 people running, completely naked, on a completely perfectly flat surface without any imperfections? Would this help you understand my point, and pretty much everyone else's point, of ability? I would be more than happy to for you to understand and make it simple.

As for my personal ability with regards to speed. Let's take something I know reasonably well, bicycling or more specifically BMXing. I used to race these for years since I was 7. Now, because I raced, my ability was developed for speed with shit happening all around me. The longest race was 40 seconds. It's fucken fast. If you haven't watch a race and you'll get what I mean.

Anyway, I can't ride slow. I have exceptional balance but I've never developed my ability to ride slow. Never needed to never wanted to.

It was SAFER for me to ride FASTER because the risks were less with my ABILITY. When mountain biking, I have broken bones from riding slow, rather than when I'm riding faster. This is how my ability has been developed.

Let's bring this back to you. How SAFE do you feel riding at walking speed or SLOWER as opposed to, say, 50 km/h? Both situations no thing is around you?

[SMOKEU]

Anyway, I can't ride slow. I have exceptional balance but I've never developed my ability to ride slow. Never needed to never wanted to.

It was SAFER for me to ride FASTER because the risks were less with my ABILITY. When mountain biking, I have broken bones from riding slow, rather than when I'm riding faster. This is how my ability has been developed.


This may be a bit off topic, but it takes a lot more skill to cycle very slowly than it does to cycle fast. We all know that bikes (both push bikes and motorbikes) are more stable at speed, up to a certain point.

[TheDemonLord]

You make the point that there is no such thing as being fast and safe. What you should be arguing is the physics not the persons ability. Yes, physics dictate that the faster you go the more shit hits the fan when things go bad and you hit something. But let me again bring in the fighter pilot. He's flying a plane at 100 km/h. He's used to flying it at 1000km/h. Apart from the fact he's bored as shit, because his ability and skill set enable him to pilot a plane at 1000km/h he has all the time in the world (compared to flying at his normal speed) to react to any crap that could happen. He's scanning so far out in front, it's ridiculous. His peripheral vision is so fucken wide he could see shit coming behind him.

Ability.

Now, you're flying a plane at the same speed. You're not Mr fighter pilot and you think 100km/h is warp speed. Everything is rushed to you. You have no time to process anything. Your brain is mush and is a blur of information. Because you think this speed is already too fast, if anything happens to you, your equipment, or something comes in front of you, because you don't have the ability of the fighter pilot, your brain tells you you're already fucked. Should we now get you to fly at 1000 km/h? The same speed where the fighter pilot feels at home and his brain still works better than yours at 100km/h? ;)

Ability.



I would just like to make a small nitpick - but the Fighter Pilot trying to fly any plane that is capable of flying at 1000 kph, at 100 kph is actually probably going to shitting himself because he would be neck deep in trouble (stall speed on most Jets is around 160-200 kph depending) - also his reaction times would be mute because at that speed, any change in the aircrafts control surfaces will result in a crash

[iranana]

Omg this thread is still going.... :shit:

[Geeen]

I would just like to make a small nitpick - but the Fighter Pilot trying to fly any plane that is capable of flying at 1000 kph, at 100 kph is actually probably going to shitting himself because he would be neck deep in trouble (stall speed on most Jets is around 160-200 kph depending) - also his reaction times would be mute because at that speed, any change in the aircrafts control surfaces will result in a crash

So in essence in this instance faster is safer???:bleh::Pokey::lol::lol:

[TheDemonLord]

So in essence in this instance faster is safer???:bleh::Pokey::lol::lol:

When flying, anything above Stall speed is safer - I think there is an optimum maneuvering speed, above that speed, using full stick can cause issues:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maneuvering_speed

That is of course - assuming a flat and level flight path, with no objects or other hazards

[Taxythingy]

Omg this thread is still going.... :shit:

Yup. :corn: :corn:

[ckai]

I would just like to make a small nitpick - but the Fighter Pilot trying to fly any plane that is capable of flying at 1000 kph, at 100 kph is actually probably going to shitting himself because he would be neck deep in trouble (stall speed on most Jets is around 160-200 kph depending) - also his reaction times would be mute because at that speed, any change in the aircrafts control surfaces will result in a crash

Aahh, I said a plane, not his plane. I was trying to make it as fair as possible for cassina :). Anyone has the ability to fly a plane but fuck all for a jet fighter. I know I can't (can't see without testicles_).

But saying all that is just going to bring up the whole equipment factor that cassina is stuck on. On we don't won't that now, do we? ;)


This may be a bit off topic, but it takes a lot more skill to cycle very slowly than it does to cycle fast. We all know that bikes (both push bikes and motorbikes) are more stable at speed, up to a certain point.


So in essence in this instance faster is safer???:bleh::Pokey::lol::lol:

Boo yaaa :devil2:

[SMOKEU]

Oh, and commercial planes don't generally crash into each other, not because of lightening fast reflexes that drivers generally lack, but because ATC usually assigns altitudes and headings, and there is always the TCAS if all else fails. With a bike it's just "see and avoid".

[The Reibz]

I will out corner you when its fatal

[James Deuce]

I would just like to make a small nitpick - but the Fighter Pilot trying to fly any plane that is capable of flying at 1000 kph, at 100 kph is actually probably going to shitting himself because he would be neck deep in trouble (stall speed on most Jets is around 160-200 kph depending) - also his reaction times would be mute because at that speed, any change in the aircrafts control surfaces will result in a crash

Look, could we just get these two things right, if this thread is to continue?

1. IAMS is cat food.
2. Mute = silent, or unable to vocalise. I think you mean "moot", having little or no practical relevance. I doubt your stall speed example would be mute. I know pilots. They're not shy and retiring.

[jasonu]

I like to shelter myself from the inherently retarded.

Yet you always seem to be knee deep on Kiwi Bitcher.:yes::yes::yes:

[ellipsis]

I had invited others to read post #807 in the Speed Tolerance Reduction Thread by Police Officer Rastus but no one has and if they did they are not brave enough to admit they are wrong with their thinking in this forum so here is a snipit of it for you to think over:

the speed that you travel at impacts others ability to judge your speed? And that the faster you go, the less the margin for anyones error?

If that is what IAMS taught him how on earth do others who believe in it think the opposite or think they are safe going fast as a result of passing IAMs Training ???


....here's me thinking you were a complete and utter wankfuck but I was wrong...you are way past that...

[Gremlin]

1. IAMS is cat food.


If that is what IAMS taught him ...

Yeah, that worked :facepalm:

Cassina, you're still on about fast, which can't really be defined. Part of IAM, we obey all road rules, including speed limits. Yes, 100kph in a 25 corner isn't going to work well, but 100kph is actually quite easy to maintain through some sections of road.

[SVboy]

I like to shelter myself from the inherently retarded.

So you work in a "sheltered workshop"? This thread is bringing a lot of home truths to the surface!

[Monkfish]

I had invited others to read post #807 in the Speed Tolerance Reduction Thread by Police Officer Rastus but no one has and if they did they are not brave enough to admit they are wrong with their thinking in this forum so here is a snipit of it for you to think over:

the speed that you travel at impacts others ability to judge your speed? And that the faster you go, the less the margin for anyones error?

If that is what IAMS taught him how on earth do others who believe in it think the opposite or think they are safe going fast as a result of passing IAMs Training ???

:baby::drool:

Unfortunately It is because of people like you, that we are consistently cautioned on the contents of our coffee.

[pritch]

Calling it a list seems something of an exaggeration, there's only one name on it but...


"This message is hidden because cassina is on your ignore list."

[chasio]

I was just attacking the claim about fast being safe when it reality is less safe.

Remember when the open road speed limit on a 6L was 70km/h? That speed was too slow to be safe. Even the gubbermint recognised this and increased it to 100km/h.

The higher speed limit is safer. Both in practise, and as legislated.

BTW, has anyone ridden a mokorbike recently?

[Katman]

Part of IAM, we obey all road rules, including speed limits.

Be honest, that probably only occurs on your group rides - where you're all secretly monitoring each other.

[raftn]

I had invited others to read post #807 in the Speed Tolerance Reduction Thread by Police Officer Rastus but no one has and if they did they are not brave enough to admit they are wrong with their thinking in this forum so here is a snipit of it for you to think over:

the speed that you travel at impacts others ability to judge your speed? And that the faster you go, the less the margin for anyones error?

If that is what IAMS taught him how on earth do others who believe in it think the opposite or think they are safe going fast as a result of passing IAMs Training ???

For fuck sake it's IAM not IAMS ... If you going to fucking insult it with your fucking ignorance could at least get the spelling fucking correct... Fuck me your a fuckwit.

[Racing Dave]

For fuck sake it's IAM not IAMS ... If you going to fucking insult it with your fucking ignorance could at least get the spelling fucking correct... Fuck me your a fuckwit.

...you're...

[Gremlin]

BTW, has anyone ridden a mokorbike recently?
A few minutes ago? Also, yesterday, and the day before...


Be honest, that probably only occurs on group rides - where you're all secretly monitoring each other.
When the IAM vest is on regardless of a group ride or 2-3 bikes, I'm representing IAM and everything it stands for, worked too hard towards it to be the one to bring it into disrepute.

I'll happily admit I'm no angel (most could admit to that), however, the system is still part of my ride every ride regardless of the speed and really, the only thing I do is usually do +10 indicated on any speed limit, so I'm somewhere in the grey/tolerance zone. During this 4kph period, I've actually tried really hard to stick at 100kph, I don't want a stupid ticket, but it's difficult in a winding road as my whole flow is more around 105-115 mark...

edit: Overtaking is quickly and precisely, even on observed rides. Bit of a grey area, and very much you know what you're doing, you know what the rules are (ie, a speeding ticket is possible), there is a realm of getting it done safely, and simply blasting past without observing all the other factors. Being on the wrong side of the road is unsafe, but then you'd be surprised, as often on open road sections we're doing back roads that are winding checking riders are riding to the system, with not a lot of passing opportunity either. There is also a process to overtaking, you need visibility ahead after completing the overtake etc, and this is also part of the observation.

[bluninja]

edit: Overtaking is quickly and precisely, even on observed rides. Bit of a grey area, and very much you know what you're doing, you know what the rules are (ie, a speeding ticket is possible), there is a realm of getting it done safely, and simply blasting past without observing all the other factors. Being on the wrong side of the road is unsafe, but then you'd be surprised, as often on open road sections we're doing back roads that are winding checking riders are riding to the system, with not a lot of passing opportunity either. There is also a process to overtaking, you need visibility ahead after completing the overtake etc, and this is also part of the observation.

First accident was an overtake, my process was good until something happened, then I neglected the process (pull in and reassess) just looked ahead saw it was still clear and continued the overtake straight into a tractor emerging from the opening on the right that wasn't in my original plan. Funnily enough I was overtaking a line of traffic at 10-15kph faster than them. Had I just wacked open the throttle and screamed past the line of traffic I would have got through unscathed (that time).

As for all this "fast and safe". If one has good visibility, good grip and is always able to stop in the distance that one can see on a 2 lane road, or half the distance on a single lane road then one can be both "fast AND Safe".

Increased speed reduces reaction time: agreed
Increased speed increase the stopping distance: agreed

However increased speed does not, of itself, reduce safety. Going so fast that one cannot stop within the clear road ahead given consideration to the surface and grip level ahead does.

[Gremlin]

Poster 1 defined the speed of the bike as fast and you are doubting that he was correct in his perception and I guess I am thinking he was assuming he was not a little kid sitting in the backseat
of dads car. I take your comment about about 100kmhr "Not Working" in a 25km corner as finally getting what I am on about.
I think we both agree our speeds in the 25 would be perhaps significantly different, and no, I don't know what you're on about.

You took poster 1's idea of fast and have run with it all thread long. The argument remains... one person's fast is not another person's fast, and just because someone says something/one is fast doesn't mean it's not safe. Plenty of slower riders out there who think anyone passing them are unsafe - much like everyone slower than me is an idiot, anyone faster than me is crazy. Without some sort of independent assessment nothing can be concluded.

But hey, let's have fun debating it :facepalm:

[James Deuce]

Here's a picture of a kitten, which will grow up big and strong if it is raised on an age-appropriate, specialist IAMS diet.

http://www.hdwallpaperspick.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/kitten.jpg

[bogan]

Here's a picture of a kitten, which will grow up big and strong if it is raised on an age-appropriate, specialist IAMS diet.

http://www.hdwallpaperspick.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/kitten.jpg

Look at him go though, even the kittens are now saying "let meowt of this thread"

[GTRMAN]

Be honest, that probably only occurs on your group rides - where you're all secretly monitoring each other.

Actually there is nothing secret about it, holding each other accountable helps to maintain the standard.

Isn't integrity defined as doing the right thing even when no one is watching?

[Katman]

Isn't integrity defined as doing the right thing even when no one is watching?

According to Gremlin, it's when he's wearing his IAM vest.

[Blackbird]

According to Gremlin, it's when he's wearing his IAM vest.

Disingenuous, Steve :innocent:

[ckai]

For fuck sake it's IAM not IAMS ... If you going to fucking insult it with your fucking ignorance could at least get the spelling fucking correct... Fuck me your a fuckwit.

haha I was wondering when someone was actually going to spell it out in crayon for cassina. Personally I was just waiting to see how long it would take for the penny to drop...come to think of it. It still may not have. Let's wait and see.:corn:

[Hawk]

[QUOTE=James Deuce;1130659844]Here's a picture of a kitten, which will grow up big and strong if it is raised on an age-appropriate, specialist IAMS diet.

http://www.hdwallpaperspick.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/kitten.jpg[/
QUOTE]

I AM cat hear me purr

[Geeen]

haha I was wondering when someone was actually going to spell it out in crayon for cassina. Personally I was just waiting to see how long it would take for the penny to drop...come to think of it. It still may not have. Let's wait and see.:corn:

I think that's the 12th or 13th time its been pointed out.......

[Ocean1]

Disingenuous, Steve :innocent:

I thought it was Steve Disingenuous... something.

[Big Dave]

I AM cat hear me purr

A real Hawk would have said 'Hmmmm - lunch'.

[dangerous]

But was he not the same guy who thought he was going to die as pillion on the back of an IAMS riders bike? you got farking rocks in ya head or something... that was a 'saying' you know a simily or metafor or some shit... he did not really think he was going to die FFS


Have you gone through the IAM process?

I'm guessing you're another one that thinks IAM has something to do with pet food.

I have NO FARKING idea what this IAMs shit is... and FYI, the best thing I ever learnt on the track which I will add improved my lap time massive, was late apex.
now, before some one says 'going faster aint safer' then I will add... the same or similer line on the road will improve the saftey of the corner, dosent mean ya "HAVE" to take it faster.


I have never used the ignore function. IdylIdyladdled tempted me.:laugh::laugh::laugh: same... :tugger:





Here's a picture of a kitten, which will grow up big and strong if it is raised on an age-appropriate, specialist IAMS diet.

http://www.hdwallpaperspick.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/kitten.jpg

thing is look at it... the kitten is going way to fast, and wont make it around the corner, so it cant be on a IAMs diet can it, FARK are you lot not listening to cessna and Co...

oh and speaking of which, some round here will never grow up.

[BigAl]

For Christs sake, someone please invite Cassina to a monthly IAM meeting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Burning-cross2.jpg

[pzkpfw]

I saw a guy do a great emergency stop today.

I was gonna post about it, but couldn't stand the thought of 31 pages of "he was doing {something} wrong in the first place" posts from people who didn't see it.

[Big Dave]

I saw a guy do a great emergency stop today.

I was gonna post about it, but couldn't stand the thought of 31 pages of "he was doing {something} wrong in the first place" posts from people who didn't see it.

Are you qualified to observe?

[ckai]

I think that's the 12th or 13th time its been pointed out.......

Yeah but not spelt out specifically to cassina. Sure, everyone else may have got it by at least the 4th or 5th time but we have to realise that things have to be very...very, very, very, very clear.

Crayon helps as well.

As well as maybe some pictures. Pretty pictures.

Pretty pictures with maybe some unicorns. And rainbows.

[ckai]

I saw a guy do a great emergency stop today.

I was gonna post about it, but couldn't stand the thought of 31 pages of "he was doing {something} wrong in the first place" posts from people who didn't see it.

Following distances? ;)

For fucks sake, don't mention they eat cat food.

[Hawk]

A real Hawk would have said 'Hmmmm - lunch'.

back to the subject of cat (being) food

[dangerous]

back to the subject of catpussy... now were talking, something else that can get you in a power of shit

[ellipsis]

pussy... now were talking, something else that can get you in a power of shit if ya going to fast

... quick chicks or slow cunt's...to which do you refer D?....

[AllanB]

That cat should have a helmet on going at that speed.

[SMOKEU]

That cat should have a helmet on going at that speed.

And high viz, too.

[Berries]

It was another poster that critisized the cornering techqnique I was just attacking the claim about fast being safe when it reality is less safe. I would have possibly praised the rider too but would have left any claim of going fast being safe.
May I respectfully suggest that you stop digging and let this thread die a natural death? I thought the whole thing was a bit gay to start with with someone making a post because someone else went around a corner. The Street Triple rider must have had a nice arse or something.

Fast may not always equal safe, but it does not automatically equate to it being unsafe. And what exactly is "fast" anyway? Ride your own ride, at the pace you feel comfortable, but don't have a go at others if their view of a safe speed differs to yours. As someone else said, much comes down to ability. Not just of your own skills, but the awareness and perception of other road users and the road ahead.

I mentioned 5,000 pages ok that I set some of the curve advisory speeds down my way. I cannot think of any 75km/h curves that I can't take at 100km/h on my bike - when I know the curve I hasten to add. They are set for a comfortable and 'safe' speed for a four wheeled vehicle, not a bike where the rider is far more occupied with the task in hand and has the whole lane to set himself up with.

And just to keep things on topic, all cats should be drowned in a big red bucket.

[Headbanger]

And just to keep things on topic, all cats should be drowned in a big red bucket.

Pillow case and a fence post.

[Big Dave]

pussy... now were talking, something else that can get you in a power of shit

Wrong hole bud.

[dangerous]

And just to keep things on topic, all cats should be drowned in a big red bucket.

Pillow case and a fence post.
I wish... couldnt ride all xmas holls cos a farking cat (I like to call them ferrel rodents) clawed me good, and my hand was infected the size of a bloody rugby ball... was trying to stop the bloody dog eating it, never again.
Taken down by a moggy, odd when I used to work with lions, tigers etc...

actually that just had me thinking, the Cheetah's I used to work with, now I can asure you all they were never feed IAMS... and by christ they could corner safe and FAST bloody FAST, what you say cass n Co aye?



Wrong hole bud.
DAMN... now ya tell me, muck fuck.. easy mistake

[SPman]

I can't believe I just wasted 15 mins of my life reading this thread!

Jesus H Christ - some people would complain if their arse was on fire!

[Blackbird]

For Christs sake, someone please invite Cassina to a monthly IAM meeting


I'm not sure what the most diplomatic way of saying "fuck off" is, so you'll have to put up with it in non-PC terms :niceone:

[insomnia01]

I'm not sure what the most diplomatic way of saying "fuck off" is, so you'll have to put up with it in non-PC terms :niceone:

I've never heard you talk such language Geoff :not: I would suggest getting Jen to wash your mouth out but I think this thread deserves it :oi-grr:

[Blackbird]

I've never heard you talk such language Geoff :not: I would suggest getting Jen to wash your mouth out but I think this thread deserves it :oi-grr:

*Hangs head in shame* :weep: . Sorry Hami - I'll probably be sent to the naughty corner if she finds out :rolleyes:

[jasonu]

I can't believe I just wasted 15 mins of my life reading this thread!

!

You must be a fast reader.

[Big Dave]

You must be a fast reader.

But is he a safe reader and did he miss any lines? Who observed it?

[SPman]

Perhaps I.......cut a few corners................:nono:

But...really...people who can't tell the difference between accomplished, perceptive, fluid riding, and speed demons out taking risks and endangering puppies, and the pedantic hand wringing, blame chucking, winging, carry on that follows.............

[Geeen]

I.......cut a few corners................:nono:

You must've had this

http://momvstheboys.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/IAMS-So-Good-Logo-496x300.jpg

[Erelyes]

If I wanted to ride the IAMS way

Buddy you don't even understand the IAM way in any way shape or form. You can't even fuckin spell it.

If this were an intelligent debate it would consist of those involved debating their viewpoints with those that have a contrasting viewpoint.

Whether those concerned leave happy with their opinion, or whether they change it, they are better off for it.

Cassina you are the complete opposite. Your mind is shut tight. You are a fool:

“He who knows not and knows not he knows not: he is a fool - shun him.
He who knows not and knows he knows not: he is simple - teach him.
He who knows and knows not he knows: he is asleep - wake him.
He who knows and knows he knows: he is wise - follow him.”


If they admitted there was a safety trade off with faster speed whether at the speed limit or not I would agree with them.

Who is 'they' and where do they say 'they' don't acknowledge it? Is there an IAM website somewhere saying "Take our training and go as fast as you like without risk"?

There is a safety tradeoff with riding a fucking bike in the first place. The question is, to what extent are you willing to go.


It was another poster that critisized the cornering techqnique I was just attacking the claim about fast being safe when it reality is less safe.

'Less safe' can still be safe. I am safe sitting in my office at my desk job. Less safe than if I was wearing a bulletproof vest, mind, but still safe.


Remember when the open road speed limit on a 6L was 70km/h? That speed was too slow to be safe. Even the gubbermint recognised this and increased it to 100km/h.

The higher speed limit is safer. Both in practise, and as legislated.

BTW, has anyone ridden a mokorbike recently?
:niceone:


I'm not sure what the most diplomatic way of saying "fuck off" is, so you'll have to put up with it in non-PC terms :niceone:
:niceone:

[SPman]

It was stated the main aim of IAMs was to teach hazard awareness. In my day that was taught in the road code so why would it was MENTIONED in the road code, like so many other things. Actually putting it into practice in an effective way is something else entirely - and something that is not practiced by most road users. Most of us long term riders have evolved a strategy of , for us, hopefully, effective hazard awareness, but, like a lot of self taught skills, they are always worth "peer reviewing" and fine tuning by an outsider.


IAMS does not gurantee to make you better or safer than non IAMS riders. No one I know who has done the course says it does


I read a very true post on here last night that said even if you are the best rider you will not be protected if the following driver drops their cigarette between their legs or texts for that matter coming up behind you Of course not...or a Kangaroo jumps out straight into your bike......the only way to avoid things beyond your ability to contain is to not be there at all....life is a continual risk analysis program......

[Erelyes]

Sorry you dont like my addition of the S but often people will add a S to a name eg Dick Smiths Noel Leemings Harvey Normans if you get my drift. Do you get angry with people adding the letter S to those names as well????

The 'S' is a possessive.

When someone says "I'm going to Dick Smith's" they mean (I am going to [the shop] owned by Dick Smith). 'The shop' is inferred but not stated.

IAM do not 'possess' anything in your sentance:

It was stated the main aim of IAMs was to teach hazard awareness.

gg

[bogan]

I have said before I am not attacking rider training as such but just to use your word the "Foolish" belief it makes you better than everyone else on the road with my argument being everyone else
would be dying like flies on the road if this was the case would it not??? It was stated the main aim of IAMs was to teach hazard awareness. In my day that was taught in the road code so why would
I want to waste 2 years studying what I was told was my fault when I sat my drivers license. If I had not taken that on board I would be dead by now would I not?
I read a very true post on here last night that said even if you are the best rider you will not be protected if the following driver drops their cigarette between their legs or texts for that matter coming up behind you.
IAMS does not gurantee to make you better or safer than non IAMS riders.
Sorry you dont like my addition of the S but often people will add a S to a name eg Dick Smiths Noel Leemings Harvey Normans if you get my drift. Do you get angry with people adding the letter S to those names as well????

Did you seriously just compare the aptitude required to pass the IAM test to your driver's license test? One is often spoken of having a 10% pass rate, while the other is synonymous with cereal box toys :facepalm:

[Erelyes]

the other is synonymous with cereal box toys :facepalm:

Especially in the Cretinous period when cassina's licence was issued.

[quickbuck]

Do you get angry with people adding the letter S to those names as well????

Yes, yes I do... It shows a degree of ignorance that I can not tolerate.
Yup, my issue, but I am allowed to feel anger.

Would it not be safer just to spell it correctly and not wind people up (or show ignorance?).

[bluninja]

I read a very true post on here last night that said even if you are the best rider you will not be protected if the following driver drops their cigarette between their legs or texts for that matter coming up behind you.


Hmmmm....lets think this through...you are driving along and there is a car behind you that is closing on you...you check your mirrors and don't see the driver looking ahead cos they are texting, applying makeup, shaving....... pick a driver distraction. You now plan to put yourself in a situation where you are safe; perhaps sound your horn to attract their attention.

Imagine you are stationary; there is no hazard ahead of you and there was no vehicle behind you when you stopped...you keep one eye on the mirror and see a vehicle approaching from behind. Tough shit if you parked right up to the centre of the fender of the car in front :devil2:, otherwise you can manoeuver the bike out of harms way.

I don't know whether I'm a good rider, but I have used this very technique repeated times on the motor bike. On 2 occasions the car behind struck the car in front of where I was placed, on other occasions the gap was significantly less than the length of my bike. So in effect a rebuttal to your quoted scenario.

There are some things you can control, and some things you can influence.....but without information you don't get to make a well informed decision. Without learning what information is available to you, developing a method for focussing on the right information at the right time and then practicing that method till it becomes habitual you are more at the mercy of the driver competence of the other traffic on the roads.

Deciding how much you learn, and how much you practice is totally personal depending on your approach to personal safety, and driving.

[Blackbird]

Sorry you dont like my addition of the S but often people will add a S to a name eg Dick Smiths Noel Leemings Harvey Normans if you get my drift. Do you get angry with people adding the letter S to those names as well????

No we don't get angry as English is clearly a second language to you. IAM = Institute of Advanced Motorists. You'll note it has an "s" on the end already. To add another one is just piss poor grammar as cat-loving riders and others have already pointed out. :whistle:

"Roadcraft" is a formal system used by police in the UK, NZ and elsewhere. IAM, RoSPA and others use the same system. Many Observers and Examiners in IAM and RoSpa are either serving police or ex-police who volunteer their time to pass on their skills to riders who want to pass the Roadcraft advanced test and perhaps move beyond that. To denigrate such an accepted system is both ignorant and arrogant. Still, you've demonstrated those qualities beyond doubt in the last gazillion pages, haven't you? :tugger:

[bogan]

Other than hazard awareness what else does IAMs teach as thats the only thing that supporters have stated so far? You will note that another recent poster promotes IAMs to those who have forgotten what they learnt during the licence test. Well some of us who ride weekly do not forget. I have yet to read a response to my question as to why those not IAMs qualified are not dying like flies on the road which by the 10% only pass rate they should be should they not?????

It's not a binary thing that you either have or don't, some people are better than others at being aware of hazards, there's likely a correlation between extra training an being more aware. I couldn't give a fuck what sort of piss weak quote you get from somebody else here that you find to support your half assed arguments. If you honestly think passing the license test is an end goal for rider ability, you're a lost cause.
Have you got comparitive figures showing non IAM trained riders don't die more than IAM trained riders then?

[quickbuck]

But according to you guys anyone who is not a IAMs believer is an idiot anyway. You guys have wound me up with your high and mighty attitude towards it.
a

I NEVER ONCE said that..... Gross Generalisation, which you seem to be really good at.....

There is a saying: It is better to sit quiet and look like an idiot rather than open your mouth and remove all doubt.... You seem to be good at opening your mouth.

I personally have not had much at all to do with the LAM system, but I understand exactly what they are getting at.....
The Advanced Rider Training I am involved with seems to use some of the same things funny ol thing......

[tippersv]

But is he a safe reader and did he miss any lines? Who observed it?

and did he learn to read off the back of an IAMs packet?

[tippersv]

Last night I was happy to let this debate die as a poster suggested I do.

I don't think so..................

[dangerous]

IAMS does not gurantee to make you better or safer than non IAMS riders.

Did you seriously just compare the aptitude required to pass the IAM test to your driver's license test?

WELL fark you lot, shove ya IAMs, drivers licence etc... Im beter than the lot of ya's I am a a Motorcycling NZ acredited coach level ONE Ill have you know, so non of ya's no shit :Punk::Punk::Punk::Punk: Im the man fastest and safest round any bend :wings:
And I ptrefer dog food over cat food anyday.

[bogan]

If thats your logic then you should have an even bigger worry that a car drivers license is an end goal too for many and far more of them can kill us than we kill ourselves. If you hold a car license as well
have you done an IAMs equivalent for that if not you are a lost cause car driver are you not??

Last night I was happy to let this debate die as a poster suggested I do, but you guys just love debate for the sake of debate I guess.

I am still yet to hear why non IAMs riders are not dying like flys. As you guys can not think up an answer I will give you one. We all all not as thick as you think on the road.

The lost cause part is the attitude, not the action. If you think passing the test of any sort means you no longer need to focus on self improvement, then you are a lost cause. A bloody good reason to continue to focus on self improvement is the number of muppets out there driving with the certainty that pulling a license out of the cereal box and sticking under the speed limit will ensure the safety wizards will protect you from harm.

You still don't seem to get the difference between 'good enough' and 'better'. I think it more appropriate to benchmark non-IAM riders against IAM rider than it is to compare them to flies.

[Katman]

To denigrate such an accepted system is both ignorant and arrogant.

With respect Geoff, refusing to consider whether improvements could be made to a system isn't particularly open-minded either.

[dangerous]

refusing to consider whether improvements could be made to a systemshit man... course improvments can be made, the day you me or anyother rider out ther claims to know it all and has the 'system' sused... is a dead bugger, fark Iv said it before if not once a dozen times... I learn something every time I ride and I will do so till I am unable to ride, covered near 400k in 30 odd years so far.

[bluninja]

If thats your logic then you should have an even bigger worry that a car drivers license is an end goal too for many and far more of them can kill us than we kill ourselves. If you hold a car license as well
have you done an IAMs equivalent for that if not you are a lost cause car driver are you not??

Last night I was happy to let this debate die as a poster suggested I do, but you guys just love debate for the sake of debate I guess.

I am still yet to hear why non IAMs riders are not dying like flys. As you guys can not think up an answer I will give you one. We all all not as thick as you think on the road.

Your first point that I've emboldened is sadly a pervasive attitude in NZ (IMHO). One can lobby the government, and work long term to change road users attitudes and skills. However on a day to day basis the only thing a rider can fully control is themselves. Improving riding skills, situational awareness, hazard identification and wearing protective gear is a personal choice; but the only choice you have within your full control.

IAM is not the only way to improve you riding/driving. Why the fixation?

The whole roadcraft system was brought about because "lots" of police officers were getting injured in crashes and someone was brought in to analyse and produce a system which would improve their safety on the road. The results were a measurable reduction in police rider/driver accidents after it's introduction.

Other options not involving IAM, RoSPA, MSF or RoadCraft based organisations(perhaps you have used some of these)

Practicing off road or on track to improve bike handling skills in a safe environment.
Training from a professional instructor.
Mentoring from a (perceived) more experienced rider.
Riding with other motorcyclists and observing their road riding; having an open chat to understand why they do some things differently to you.
Reading books, or watching instructional videos.

[Virago]

If thats your logic then you should have an even bigger worry that a car drivers license is an end goal too for many and far more of them can kill us than we kill ourselves...

I challenge you to provide statistics to back that statement.

[Madness]

Last night I was happy to let this debate die as a poster suggested I do, but you guys just love debate for the sake of debate I guess.

There has at no stage been any debate in this thread, just varying levels of fail.


We all all not as thick as you think on the road.

I sure hope you're not as thick on the road as you are on the internets.

[Katman]

There has at no stage been any debate in this thread, just varying levels of fail.


And that's the unfortunate thing.

78 members (yes, I've counted) have so far contributed to this thread. Many others have probably read it.

Let's assume that 75% of those posters are idiots.

That still leaves 19½ people who could have been having a serious debate about the pros and cons of wide cornering (maximising vision around the corner), versus placing the primary importance on placing yourself in a position of least risk (and greater avoidance options) while adjusting your speed to achieve that.

Sadly, I'm more getting the feeling that the system shouldn't be questioned.

[Madness]

Let's assume that 75% of those posters are idiots.

You're too generous.

[Katman]

You're too generous.

I'm an eternal optimist.

[pritch]

'The shop' is inferred but not stated.



I think you mean implied rather than inferred?

[Howie]

"Roadcraft" is a formal system used by police in the UK, NZ and elsewhere. IAM, RoSPA and others use the same system.

Unfortunately I’d be loath to link any advanced Driver/Rider training to any training that the NZ police do. Personally in the last 2 years I have had at least 3 Police vehicles pull out in front of me with no warning at all. By warning I mean no indicators or use of disco lights or sirens (they did give the classic indications that you can look for). One of them actually looked very guilty when I stoped about 6" from the driver’s door. They did the classic pull out. Oh shit something’s coming. Stand on the brakes. Stop in the middle of the road.(another one pulled left then did a U turn in front of me) In my opinion Police driving has got worse in the last few years if anything.

[bogan]

I think there is a separate forum started about cornering.

There's another forum for you too, it's all pink and everything :innocent:

[Katman]

Didnt a couple of guys on bikes die a few years back when a cop Uturned in front of them too.

Wow, you're so incredibly mis-informed.

[Madness]

I think there is a separate forum started about cornering. This forum is all about safety and the debate over whether if you do a 2 year IAM course you will be a safer rider than those who dont.

This is a thread. It is one of many threads within the forum that is KB. This thread is all about an orange Street Triple R who was observed by a KB member riding the Akaroa Highway on January 2, 2014. One KB member (that would be you) has hijacked this thread all about an orange Street Triple R who was observed by a KB member riding the Akaroa Highway on January 2, 2014 and has taken it waaaaay off-topic by ranting about some delusional bullshit to do with cat food.

You should have listened to the voices in your head last night & just quit it.

[dangerous]

I think there is a separate forum started about cornering. This forum is all about safety and the debate over whether if you do a 2 year IAM course you will be a safer rider than those who dont.

NO... its not, its about a barvarian pig following a british 3 leged cat nicely around a corner... who can tell me which eats donuts and which eats IAMS :bleh:

[bogan]

You lot are the delusional ones calling it cat food!!

Yeh guys, stop that right meow.

[Madness]

:facepalm:

[blackdog]

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/attachments/5th-gen-t4rs/94398d1375198011-considering-purchasing-2014-jeep-grand-cherokee-peewee.jpg

[george formby]

And that's the unfortunate thing.

78 members (yes, I've counted) have so far contributed to this thread. Many others have probably read it.

Let's assume that 75% of those posters are idiots.

That still leaves 19½ people who could have been having a serious debate about the pros and cons of wide cornering (maximising vision around the corner), versus placing the primary importance on placing yourself in a position of least risk (and greater avoidance options) while adjusting your speed to achieve that.

Sadly, I'm more getting the feeling that the system shouldn't be questioned.

I guess those who could be having a serious debate feel no need to debate the obvious.
Seems like the rest are distracted by other things.
Ain't that always the way?

[ellipsis]

...my wife was following an orange sportster tonight on SH75...she was really, really impressed with his cornering abilities and smooth riding...she said that his skills made her all hot and horny and that she would probably 'give him one', if he asked her...I know this to be true because IAM that sportster rider...

[Gremlin]

I bet there would be very few schools that would require a time frame of 2 years to train a rider which would be a big plus for most looking for a riding school.
Sweet jesus. There is no time frame required, it's about an ongoing attitude and approach to continually strive to improve. Usually riders take 6-12 months to reach the advanced test standard, as an FYI. At the other end, a single day does not good training make. It's better than nothing, and would highlight any issues in your riding, but doesn't have a lengthy approach to correcting your riding and making sure you don't slip back into any bad habits.

That still leaves 19½ people who could have been having a serious debate about the pros and cons of wide cornering (maximising vision around the corner), versus placing the primary importance on placing yourself in a position of least risk (and greater avoidance options) while adjusting your speed to achieve that.

Sadly, I'm more getting the feeling that the system shouldn't be questioned.
Without the understanding of the entire system, explaining once piece would only get more questions on why this, why that. I really don't feel that paraphrasing an entire book into words is in anyone's interest. When members join, they get a small guide, a condensed version of the book, which is easier to digest than the entire book. Optional from there to read the entire book, but part of the material for Observers.


Actually when I was googling this website I noticed a death reported where a guy cornered wide and ended up dead as a result. So if thats IAMs gospel there is your proof they are not 100% right with their teaching.
Or you've still got the wrong end of the stick and proved you don't know the system. Unless of course, I ride to the system, go around a corner and don't die... hmmm. Probably magic... I've done probably close to 300k in a little under 9 years... so that's quite a few corners I've survived. :rolleyes: Of course, I've only been risking my life cornering wide for a little under 2 years...

[TheDemonLord]

Although new to this forum, I believe that this thread has run significantly long enough that it is now acceptable to talk about the coverage and consistancy of ones Pubic Hair

Mine is Well placed, with good coverage, but not so much that it has run wild and out of control.

:cool:

[bogan]

Although new to this forum, I believe that this thread has run significantly long enough that it is now acceptable to talk about the coverage and consistancy of ones Pubic Hair

Mine is Well placed, with good coverage, but not so much that it has run wild and out of control.

:cool:

:rofl: Well I think you'll fit in ok.

Mine needs the odd trim to keep the coverage in check.

[fridayflash]

Although new to this forum, I believe that this thread has run significantly long enough that it is now acceptable to talk about the coverage and consistancy of ones Pubic Hair

Mine is Well placed, with good coverage, but not so much that it has run wild and out of control.

:cool:

oh come on bro...surely your not all dick and fart jokes? yawn fucken yawn

[Katman]

This thread was a great read until post #66.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/121651-Police-riders-handbook-to-better-motorcycling-Motorcycle-road-craft

I'd be interested to know just who it was that put the pressure on rustic to stop transcribing the book.

[Crasherfromwayback]

:rofl: Well I think you'll fit in ok.

Mine needs the odd trim to keep the coverage in check.

Like this Bro?

292164

[caspernz]

I tried reading some of this, but then I had to make way to let the whambulance thru...:facepalm:

[Headbanger]

Although new to this forum, I believe that this thread has run significantly long enough that it is now acceptable to talk about the coverage and consistancy of ones Pubic Hair

Mine is Well placed, with good coverage, but not so much that it has run wild and out of control.

:cool:

I run the clippers over mine after I've shaved my head.

Takes a deft hand......

[skippa1]

Like this Bro?


She's hot

10

[Katman]

I think there is a separate forum started about cornering. This forum is all about safety and the debate over whether if you do a 2 year IAM course you will be a safer rider than those who dont.


Who died and made you King of the Internets?

[bogan]

Like this Bro?


Yeh pretty much, cept my nips are hairy too.

[blackdog]

I run the clippers over mine after I've shaved my head.

Takes a deft hand......

Novice. Get with the straight razor.

Although I wouldn't let the Mrs help if she's heard about that office girl thing at Friday drinks.

[Erelyes]

I think you mean implied rather than inferred?

:facepalm: Right you are :whistle:

[Headbanger]

Novice. Get with the straight razor.

Although I wouldn't let the Mrs help if she's heard about that office girl thing at Friday drinks.

fuck that:mellow:

Its bad enough nicking the underside with the clippers.

[TheDemonLord]

oh come on bro...surely your not all dick and fart jokes? yawn fucken yawn

oh no, I have much wittier material in my repertoire, however when it comes to a discussion like this that has run its course, died, and then has been flogged like the deceased horse to go the extra mile - what other responses are there?

I have neither the experiance to add something to either side of the discussion, and it has become clear that neither side will concede any ground to the other. Were I familiar with the IAM system or any of the other advanced motoring skills systems being bandied about, I might be able to breathe new life or new perspective to the thread.

But since I can't - Dick and Fart jokes it is!

[James Deuce]

That's "Were".

[pritch]

Having invoked the ignore function for the first time, in honour of cassina, I'm enjoying the result. Much less vexatious to the spirit and altogether healthier I'm sure.
May I recommend it to you all?

I am amazed that it took me nine years to get around to using this most worthwhile feature of the site. Actually, I'm somewhat surprised I've even been on KB nine years but never mind. (Makes a note, "Need to get a life?")

[bluninja]

Having invoked the ignore function for the first time, in honour of cassina, I'm enjoying the result. Much less vexatious to the spirit and altogether healthier I'm sure.
May I recommend it to you all?

I am amazed that it took me nine years to get around to using this most worthwhile feature of the site. Actually, I'm somewhat surprised I've even been on KB nine years but never mind. (Makes a note, "Need to get a life?")

Need to ride more me old cock :)

[pritch]

Need to ride more me old cock :)

Well I had my riding fix today. And my whitebait fix :-)

[caseye]

Having invoked the ignore function for the first time, in honour of cassina, I'm enjoying the result. Much less vexatious to the spirit and altogether healthier I'm sure.
May I recommend it to you all?

I am amazed that it took me nine years to get around to using this most worthwhile feature of the site. Actually, I'm somewhat surprised I've even been on KB nine years but never mind. (Makes a note, "Need to get a life?")

Oh the ecestacy!. I'm experiencing a warm fuzzy in me bits now. no more crap from cassina.Self appointed king of the interwobble safety committee!

[gammaguy]

Like this Bro?


I had a puppy run away once

Now I know where it ended up

[bluninja]

Well I had my riding fix today. And my whitebait fix :-)

As did I :2thumbsup

[skippa1]

Well I had my riding fix today. And my whitebait fix :-)


As did I :2thumbsup

Not me:( But tomorrow I will:yes:

[bluninja]

Not me:( But tomorrow I will:yes:

A quick, oops, SAFE and SLOW lap around the mountain?

[skippa1]

A quick, oops, SAFE and SLOW lap around the mountain?

Roger that, wanna tag along?

[bluninja]

Roger that, wanna tag along?

I think I already have a "date" to lap the mountain tomorrow if I get out of bed in time to go to the gym first.

[skippa1]

I think I already have a "date" to lap the mountain tomorrow if I get out of bed in time to go to the gym first.

Sweet as

10

[george formby]

FANUARY!

That has made my thread. I'm off out tomorrow around the pristine, nubile laden beaches of Paihia to ask as many of said nubiles as possible, what, exactly they are doing for Fanuary.

" Are you forgoing the quim trim for Fanuary? "

" To what charity will you be donating your bush in February? "

" Does it itch? "

" What does your boyfriend think? "

" Can I have a look? "

" Do you condition your Fanuary muff? "

[James Deuce]

Circumlocuted back to Pussy I see.

[quickbuck]

You guys missed out on Brazember. ;)

Sent from my Nokia using Tapa talk.

[veldthui]

If doing something isn't safe, then why are you doing it, or, don't do it.


The act of living is unsafe and yet look at how many do that!

Most of us ride to our ability and have fun. There are those that go that bit extra and have issues. Dont judge one person on what you can do just because you cant do it. Just means you need more learning/training.

[Big Dave]

Circumlocuted back to Pussy I see.

Is that a vajazzle around the wrong way?

[Nausea]

Maybe motorcycling isn't really your thing.

Perhaps you would be more comfortable at one of these forums.

http://www.knittingparadise.com/
http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?act=home
http://www.discreetgaydating.com/

I've got tears... gold!

[Kickaha]

Actually when I was googling this website I noticed a death reported where a guy cornered wide and ended up dead as a result. So if thats IAMs gospel there is your proof they are not 100% right with their teaching.

Cornered wide or ran wide and into some roadside furniture?

1 report doesn't mean shit, put up a link to it

[blackdog]

This just in from cassina, after trying to construct a reply that constituted a valid (much less sound), argument.

http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/computers-burnout-computers-health_risk-explode-explosion-bst0020l.jpg

[Robbo]

This just in from cassina, after trying to construct a reply that constituted a valid (much less sound), argument.




Thank Fuck for that. :laugh:

[thepom]

There are some kiwi riders out there who are so against any form of good advice its really not worth the effort or discussion. ....

[jellywrestler]

I am sure the police would not have dropped the speed tolerance if they felt high speed offered better road safety.
what a chimp. the speed limit is to cover all vechiles and all riders/drivers on the road your statement is not worth printing out and wiping my arse on.

[Pickle]

Shit this thread just gets funnier all the time & Jellywrestler has wiped his arse with some funny stuff

[dangerous]

There are some kiwi riders out there who are so against any form of good advice its really not worth the effort or discussion. ....stop ya farking winjing...



poms every time :msn-wink:

[thepom]

Ha ha just fushing.....got bored of all the drivel lol
......hoping to get a few more bites..

[ellipsis]

kiwi's against effort, discussion group. ....

...I could devote a few words to this discussion...

[thepom]

Go on...you so want to...

[ellipsis]

Go on...you so want to...

...sounds like work...cant be fucked...

[dangerous]

Ha ha just fushing.....got bored of all the drivel lol
......hoping to get a few more bites..

...sounds like work...cant be fucked...


haha... ok guys lets liven this one up then
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/162941-Woodstock-Rally-amp-Muscle-Car-Madness?p=1130663197#post1130663197

[ellipsis]

...livening up a racist thread...get Smokey...

[Crasherfromwayback]

wiping my arse on.

This complete thread needs flushing.

[george formby]

This complete thread needs flushing.

Hang on, what about the dude on the orange bike that started it all? His moment of glory flushed forever.

Oh, wait. That happened on the first page. As you were.

I would consider trading in or a repaint if I was him. Definitely if he's heading for Christchurch. End up with Victor Meldrew trying to run him off the road to prove a point.

[Crasherfromwayback]

. As you were.
.

Mind you...it's been handy in the fact that it's helped us all ascertain who the biggest dickhead on KB is.

[SMOKEU]

...livening up a racist thread...get Smokey...

Present and accounted for!

[GTRMAN]

Mind you...it's been handy in the fact that it's helped us all ascertain who the biggest dickhead on KB is.

Ain't that the truth