Police getting tougher on speed tolerance

[R650R]

Well, the police themselves have just given us an outstanding example ...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503462&objectid=11368598

Note in that case they have set him up to walk away scot free as Dangerous driving is a very difficult charge to prove, should just be careless use and be done with it a lot quicker.
An earlier article stated he accelerated rapidly out of a roundabout and hit another car that was already moving in same direction. The damage to his car looked very minor.

[R650R]

Whether this will be the case or not, how much police goodwill has been pissed away. When whats-his-name on Police 10-7 says something like "police need your help to identify these ….da da da etc" how many will just say, "Nah, fuckit, let the popo do the job they're paid to do"

Actually many of us will say Nah fuckit nothing will happen to offender anyway... Said this to one of their idiot civilians who got lippy on the phone while calling in some aggressive vandals outside our house.
He got upset when I said its all prob a waste of time, nothing will be done to them anyway... nek minnit they send some geriatric in community patrol nana car to sit in our driveway with high beams on and not get out of car.... what a joke.
Several weeks later the same bunch (fairly sure but solid evidence) of vandals set fire to another neighbours fence starting a significant fire that partially spread to house wall. elderly people living there could have been fatal if it weren't for a wideload pilot car passing tooting his horn like crazy to wake every one up.
Soon these senseless teen vandals will kill someone but its a non event on police priority list, but 4k over and instant attention. I'm tempted to buy these shits a car so they can go wrap themselves around a powerpole... is that illegal to gift a legal driver a WOF and regod car with tank of gas???

[scumdog]

When whats-his-name on Police 10-7 says something like "police need your help to identify these ….da da da etc" how many will just say, "Nah, fuckit, let the popo do the job they're paid to do"

Ah, the statement of a true numpty! (Not you...I think!)

While they feel good about their "Nah fuckit" attitude it's not exactly doing much for any victim, is it?:rolleyes:

At the end of the day the popo stil get paid - even if the 'non-helpers' make it that much more difficult for them to catch any bad guy.

[scumdog]

Note in that case they have set him up to walk away scot free as Dangerous driving is a very difficult charge to prove, should just be careless use and be done with it a lot quicker.
An earlier article stated he accelerated rapidly out of a roundabout and hit another car that was already moving in same direction. The damage to his car looked very minor.

The judge is quite a liberty to amend the charge to careless driving which is easy to prove, happens regularly.

Or didn't you know that?

[R650R]

The judge is quite a liberty to amend the charge to careless driving which is easy to prove, happens regularly.

Or didn't you know that?

But will he when its one of the A-team in the lineup....

More likely to be "there is insufficient evidence to prove this charge and no public interest for such minor crash to waste further the courts time" :)

[scumdog]

But will he when its one of the A-team in the lineup....

More likely to be "there is insufficient evidence to prove this charge and no public interest for such minor crash to waste further the courts time" :)

Maybe
Maybe not

But you and I aren't God so we don't know all the facts - or the actual outcome.

[Big Dog]

Yes it does, less exposure to risk = lower overall risk. Very hard to die in a car crash if you're sitting in your living room at home.

The noise seems to have died down a bit now, which probably means the policy will be applied but just not advertised.

Either way, as suggested above you're now likely to have people fixated on their speedo's and braking on every downhill to avoid being ticketed for a few k's over the limit, rather than observing what's happening in the world past their windscreen.

Not really.
The less kms I do per year the less practiced I am at road craft.
Doing less kms per year means that my risk per km goes up.
Doing less kms that are not purely transport as a ratio of total riding means less drills and less practical experience.
My exposure remains about the same. Just my annual risk now applies to less kms.

[awayatc]

Ah, the statement of a true numpty! (Not you...I think!)

While they feel good about their "Nah fuckit" attitude it's not exactly doing much for any victim, is it?:rolleyes:

At the end of the day the popo stil get paid - even if the 'non-helpers' make it that much more difficult for them to catch any bad guy.

Unfortunately glorified traffic wardens and real cops wear same outfits.....
people in general like cops and would happily help .....
Parking Hittlers however have managed to alienate just about everybody who rides or drives....

if police wants some respect back, then it would be a good idea to dress up the wannabees a tad differently....

That way we could spot the difference,....and since most of us mainly or only deal with intolerant despicable little no good traffic nazis, we all learned to hate all cops.....

[Madness]

If there were ever a time that KB really needed tags, this might just be it.

[Big Dog]

bukake!


you can fuck right off. There are 12 year olds i would give the keys to any vehicle up to the 4.0. Mainly to drive me home from the pub, but still.

your average fuckwit (you) i wouldnt trust with grandmas tercel.

Young fullas can be trained. Its know-it-all old fucks that worry me.

I think I agree with some of your post...

To me to get to be a good old driver you need to go though several stages.

1 Young non driver - observing and learning from the examples set. That's right folks, if you want your kids to drive like dbags drive like a dbag.
2 Young learner - Leaning the mechanics of driving. Under supervision. The greatest knowledge uptake per hour spent training is believed to be 14-18.
3 Young unsupervised Learner - operating without supervision on occasion. Works best with regular supervision intermittently. This stage takes longer if you don't drive much or you are older to start with.
4 Unsupervised learner - This stage never really ends. There is always something new to learn.

I have been riding and driving for 25 years. In that time the technology of cars, roading, civil engineering and a whole swag more has changed. The acceptable strategies of "urban survival skill", traffic management, traffic density, hazard management, defensive driving and many other road craft "arts" have changed. Practices preached 25 years ago may not be appropriate in a modern car.
Examples:
My first Defensive driving course advised to always pump the brakes on the approach to a slow down area in the wet, it is generally accepted that this is a good way to stop your ABS from working effectively.
My first and second Defensive Driving course contained no mention of the differences in the handling of a FWD / RWD / 4x4 / MERWD. My third and my Advanced Defensive Driving course went into great detail. Why? The influx of Japanese cars when the tarrifs came off.

Relative to mankind motorized transport is a very new thing, hard to say from this perspective because I don't know what the next 1000 years will bring, but I doubt motorized transport is even potty trained.

If anyone knows an elite rider / driver on the world stage I reckon if you ask them they learn new stuff all the time.

[Big Dog]

But by riding less days a year you are less exposed to screw ups made by other drivers which would make things safer unless of course you felt more unsafe about your own riding ability if you did not ride every day. My thinking is by not riding everyday I am safer due to not being so exposed to any screw ups of other drivers. If you think about it insurance companies charge higher premiums for commercial vehicles because they are on the road all day and the chance of a claim is far greater.

As stated the main reason for my belief is that I have less fuel etc to spend on developing further or taking some training.
Ergo I will have less skills than in years of yore.

And definitely. Even 4 weeks off earlier this year for the arrival of my latest offspring left me feeling odd and braking late for a few weeks, worse I did not have that "Spidey sense".
The parts of your skill set that will save you in an OMG moment don't involve conscious thought.
Your access to skills you don't use degrades over time... a 1/2 life if you will. Same thing as affects born again bikers but less dramatic.

[Ocean1]

What was the major decline, and was it normalised by kms travelled? And what is the standard decline due to better cars/roads?

Yup. Biggest short term variable is the price of fuel.

Longer term is vehicle tech improvements.

Enforcement policy is a small blip by comparison.

[BlackSheepLogic]

The only thing I loose when I have not ridden on a long trip for a while is a bit of fitness and I always feel better on the way home with the muscles getting freed up on the way. It is certainly not a feeling of feeling less safe though.

Well, as per a different thread, you need to be willing to critically assess your riding before what Big Dog wrote would make sense to you.

[Taxythingy]

Been off the bike since it was totalled in May. Finally bought a bike again a week ago and farrk was I rusty. Physically riding was ok, but the roadcraft, thinking ahead, planning escape routes and stuff was terrible. Good thing I wasn't given any idiot drivers to deal with. I rode like a nana on the way home.

Didn't expect that part to be so far behind.

[Big Dog]

Don't worry I will most definitely give up riding if I ever feel my ability is turning to shit. I would end up dead if I didn't.

How would you know?


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[bogan]

There has been ample use of GPS including phone based ones to set court precendents in NZ that they are accurate representation of speed in serious accident cases.
A court judge stated this during a mates case where he decided against the location aspect (for logbook case) being kosha as it had not been tested in court before among other factors.

So it is bullshit then, cos precedents for speed estimation in a serious accident is a lot different to "GPS is gold standard undisputable evidence for speed"


Yup. Biggest short term variable is the price of fuel.

Longer term is vehicle tech improvements.

Enforcement policy is a small blip by comparison.

Yeh, but if the plod gives enough speeding fines, it will drive the price/km up to simulate a fuel price rise :innocent:

[bogan]

How would you know?


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

She might have a myriad of accidents that were avoidable? :innocent:

[nzspokes]

If I started having accidents or close shaves that were my fault and not the fault of anyone else. What will be your indicator that it's time to give up riding?

When I ride like you.

[mossy1200]

Sorry to interrupt.

Has anyone been issued a ticket for exceeding by less than 10 other than Tax camera?

[Big Dog]

If I started having accidents or close shaves that were my fault and not the fault of anyone else. What will be your indicator that it's time to give up riding?

When my faculties are sufficiently diminished that I think that I am a good rider who keeps having events happen to me through no fault of my own.

The common denominator in all my accidents and whoopsies? Me.
What I can change? Me.
Who is responsible for my fate? Me.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Big Dog]

Sorry to interrupt.

Has anyone been issued a ticket for exceeding by less than 10 other than Tax camera?

The last time I was in Dunkin' Donuts I got charged for the 12+1 free deal. I only got 12. They give you a ticket. Does that count?


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[bogan]

When my faculties are sufficiently diminished that I think that I am a good rider who keeps having events happen to me through no fault of my own.

The common denominator in all my accidents and whoopsies? Me.
What I can change? Me.
Who is responsible for my fate? Me.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

You missed out one

Who will come off second best in an accident (regardless of fault)? Me.

[Scuba_Steve]

Sorry to interrupt.

Has anyone been issued a ticket for exceeding by less than 10 other than Tax camera?

Yes but not anytime recently

[mossy1200]

Yes but not anytime recently

Bet Akzle would get one if he was pulled over. Not sure many who were not rude would.
Its even likely those pulled for 111 could get downgraded to 109. Not sure if this still happens its been long time since speeding ticket now.

[rastuscat]

Bet Akzle would get one if he was pulled over. Not sure many who were not rude would.
Its even likely those pulled for 111 could get downgraded to 109. Not sure if this still happens its been long time since speeding ticket now.

Interesting. It's called discounting. Officers have been known to drop speeds into the next band down.

It saves the punter money and on the stats it makes the officer appear to be enforcing the lower tolerance. Win win.

Only it's unethical. Once that happens. What's to stop the same Popo from stepping up a band?

The management knows it happens and its a disciplinary issue if found.

Just FYI

[R650R]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11369061

Well it seems Green policies are killing the most people now. Its time to ban car-pooling (passengers), cycling and walking.
As a group these people make up 108 people killed this year, about a third of the road toll.
And they weren't even speeding or drinking alcohol. They might still be alive if they had their own cars to drive...

But it seesm the greens do like polluting cars after all when it suits them.... http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11369759

"But Green Party transport spokeswoman Julie Anne Genter says motorists should consider the extra burden on the climate and congested roads before pulling out all stops this summer.

"There's nothing wrong with driving cars except that if everyone tries to do it at the same time, it makes it hard for anyone to get anywhere," she said."

[R650R]

Interesting. It's called discounting. Officers have been known to drop speeds into the next band down.

It saves the punter money and on the stats it makes the officer appear to be enforcing the lower tolerance. Win win.

Only it's unethical. Once that happens. What's to stop the same Popo from stepping up a band?

The management knows it happens and its a disciplinary issue if found.

Just FYI

Had one of HB's top traffic cops do that for me and mate years ago, said it was because I was so polite about the whole matter.
He even told us to behave as their was another mufti car ahead. A win win really because it calmed the whole experience and we obeyed the speed limit afterwards as we knew there was another cop up road.

[R650R]

So it is real then even though I don't like the idea and cant understand it.




fixed that for you :)

[Scuba_Steve]

Interesting. It's called discounting. Officers have been known to drop speeds into the next band down.

It saves the punter money and on the stats it makes the officer appear to be enforcing the lower tolerance. Win win.

Only it's unethical. Once that happens. What's to stop the same Popo from stepping up a band?

The management knows it happens and its a disciplinary issue if found.

Just FYI

No unethical is inforcing the speed scam in the 1st place; it's also illegal but thats another story

[Mo NZ]

What's to stop the same Popo from stepping up a band?

Same thing as this.

Like the cop who flicks a guy in.
Said I have just check your speed at ...
The rider asked if he could view the radar as he was sure he wasn't.
It showed patrol ground speed of 80 odd kph.
Which was amazing as the officer had been parked on the side of the road at the time.

[pritch]

Its know-it-all old fucks that worry me.

Hey! Don't pick on me :whistle:

[R650R]

Same thing as this.

Like the cop who flicks a guy in.
Said I have just check your speed at ...
The rider asked if he could view the radar as he was sure he wasn't.
It showed patrol ground speed of 80 odd kph.
Which was amazing as the officer had been parked on the side of the road at the time.

There was a learner cop who tried to ticket b-train for 120km/h at Karapiro... on the flat with a truck that was limited to 103....
Lucky his colleague realised he had radared a car behind him going the other way and took the ticket book off him lol....

[Taxythingy]

Jeeez, I didn't think it was that hard.

I got to ping about a dozen cars in Marlborough while taking a slightly expensive rest on the side of the road. Officer was good for a chat as well. That taught me to take a break when getting tired.

[R650R]

There would be more motorcyclists alive if they had been driving cars at the time of their crash too and the same could be said about some car drivers if they were driving anything bigger at the time of their crash. I think you will find most people cycle or walk to get fit and save money rather than do it with the Green intention of cooling the planet.

Hey stop applying logic and reasoning to my internet forum ramblings. As this is a pro motorcycle site any mc data is automatically excluded when debunking govt propaganda... :)

[GrayWolf]

bukake!


you can fuck right off. There are 12 year olds i would give the keys to any vehicle up to the 4.0. Mainly to drive me home from the pub, but still.

Im not your average fuckwit, i wouldnt trusted with grandmas tercel.

I'm the know it all fuckwt that you should be worried about.


there fixed it for you

[bogan]

fixed that for you :)

Fuck off, it is precisely because i do understand it that i know it is not an authoritive instantaneous speed reading like a cop's radar is.

[Akzle]

there fixed it for you

no you didnt.

[R650R]

Fuck off, it is precisely because i do understand it that i know it is not an authoritive instantaneous speed reading like a cop's radar is.

Authoritive??? Instantaneous??? Jesus Christ....

Anything produced in court as evidence by an appropriate party from suitable sources is deemed plenty enough reputable status behind it.
The case I watched the judge stated that speed evidence from GPS was already COMPLETELY accepted by the court but permitted the defence to challenge the location aspect (even though to get accurate gps speed reading it means an accurate triangulation of locations in sequence) as it hadn't been used before.

A radar on your timeline of reaction speeds might be instantaneous but then so is GPS. Depending on the system it might not be taking a measurement to the target as often per second but is still an accurate measure of the kilometres per hour travelled and therefore the rate of. A GPS as more authority too if you like as the data is 100% assigned to the target device/transponder via its serial number.
Police radar however does not designate its target, it merely indicates that an object in its field of view is travelling at speed x and this may be the target vehicle or a ghost reflection off trees.
Only military radar operating in Doppler mode can designate which object in the field of view is actually the one measured.

You can keep on not liking it but the fact is soon enough the GPS cellphone in your pocket will be your licence/ID card and personal policeman. In metro areas all the extra wifi locations will enable even further accuracy.

306421

[BlackSheepLogic]

If an officer determines by whatever means they chose that I'm exceeding the designated speed limit I'm most likely going to get a ticket which I'm going to have to pay. It really is that simple.


Police radar however does not designate its target, it merely indicates that an object in its field of view is travelling at speed x and this may be the target vehicle or a ghost reflection off trees.
Only military radar operating in Doppler mode can designate which object in the field of view is actually the one measured

[R650R]

If an officer determines by whatever means they chose that I'm exceeding the designated speed limit I'm most likely going to get a ticket which I'm going to have to pay. It really is that simple.

Yep 100% agree. How many of the clever dicks can afford a day off for a trivial court case that they'll likely lose without a $10,000 lawyer anyway....
At least while all these pedantic types are roadside asking for these documents the rest of us can rock on past.
Got a ticket once being followed by a mufti with 'calibrated speedo'. Now could have played the game but the fact was he followed me for several kms and we were consistently well above the limit and the speed ticket for certainly wasn't the peak speed achieved when lighting up out of junction on GSXR1100L.... Spoke nicely and got a 5k discount, meanwhile my mate who had just started Uni winged like a bitch and nearly got us more tickets!!!

[Mo NZ]

"At least while all these pedantic types are roadside asking for these documents the rest of us can rock on past'

The documentation will be available as disclosure. Usually takes a couple of weeks or so to arrive.
Copy of ticket, both sides.
Vehicle spedo cert.
Rader certs.
Daily radar check test results.
Officer radar qualified cert.
Notebook entries.

[Akzle]

an accurate triangulation of locations in sequence) as it hadn't been used before.


triLATeration.
Fuck.

[bogan]

Authoritive??? Instantaneous??? Jesus Christ....

Anything produced in court as evidence by an appropriate party from suitable sources is deemed plenty enough reputable status behind it.
The case I watched the judge stated that speed evidence from GPS was already COMPLETELY accepted by the court but permitted the defence to challenge the location aspect (even though to get accurate gps speed reading it means an accurate triangulation of locations in sequence) as it hadn't been used before.

A radar on your timeline of reaction speeds might be instantaneous but then so is GPS. Depending on the system it might not be taking a measurement to the target as often per second but is still an accurate measure of the kilometres per hour travelled and therefore the rate of. A GPS as more authority too if you like as the data is 100% assigned to the target device/transponder via its serial number.
Police radar however does not designate its target, it merely indicates that an object in its field of view is travelling at speed x and this may be the target vehicle or a ghost reflection off trees.
Only military radar operating in Doppler mode can designate which object in the field of view is actually the one measured.

You can keep on not liking it but the fact is soon enough the GPS cellphone in your pocket will be your licence/ID card and personal policeman. In metro areas all the extra wifi locations will enable even further accuracy.

Nah, getting Jesus to take the wheel won't help you either.

Consumer GPS reads have enough innacuracy that the positions must be averaged to get a speed reading, so no, it is not instantaneous. In fact if you pull out and boost passed someone then slow down, the GPS will never record your true maximum speed. Additionaly, GPS has much higher altitude inaccuracy due to the angle it sees the sats at, so will often not read correctly going up or down hills (good thing cops never sit at the bottom of hills though eh :rolleyes:). And finally, fucking with the GPS data is pretty easy, if one could successfully protest a ticked purely with their own gps data, revenues would plummet; unless of course you sent them a whole days worth of data by mistake, right? :facepalm:

Wifi to enable further accuracy? surely you're not suggesting further accuracy is needed or attainable? I thought GPS was already the gold-standard speed reading :crazy:

[R650R]

Nah, getting Jesus to take the wheel won't help you either.

Consumer GPS reads have enough innacuracy that the positions must be averaged to get a speed reading, so no, it is not instantaneous. In fact if you pull out and boost passed someone then slow down, the GPS will never record your true maximum speed. Additionaly, GPS has much higher altitude inaccuracy due to the angle it sees the sats at, so will often not read correctly going up or down hills (good thing cops never sit at the bottom of hills though eh :rolleyes:). And finally, fucking with the GPS data is pretty easy, if one could successfully protest a ticked purely with their own gps data, revenues would plummet; unless of course you sent them a whole days worth of data by mistake, right? :facepalm:

Wifi to enable further accuracy? surely you're not suggesting further accuracy is needed or attainable? I thought GPS was already the gold-standard speed reading :crazy:

It's close enough to instantaneous when the offence is rate of X kilometres per hour not nano metres per nano second.
GPS will record close enough to your true maximum speed obtained, even during a brief overtake. I've ran the free app google my maps on my budget $199 smartphone in mountainbike park and recorded true top speeds on there as per what the handlebar mounted cyclometer says also. And believe me those top speeds are very brief, much less time exposure than say blasting past a car at 140 on a passing lane.
They do read close enough to accurate speed up and downhill, the difference is negligible as far as measuring in kilometres per hour and would be in favour of the offender anyway. In fact one of NZ's major trucking companies has ordered its drivers not to even exceed 90k downhill even for the briefest moments before a climb.
If you want to fuck with gps data (called tampering with evidence at houses of higher repute than yours) go for it....
The other thing about protesting a ticket via GPS is that once you announce that the cops have the right to examine ALL the recorded evidence not what you select. Eg you could not turn up to a murder trial and only enter certain pages of your personal diary as evidence to defend yourself, you'd have to table the whole book or file. And with holding the rest would be grounds for cops to obtain a warrant to see what you don't want seen.
The case I mentioned earlier was all started (in my view, could have been other reasons) by a truck driver protesting that his GPS said 96 when he got radared at 98. This then gave the cops the heads up/right to come to the workplace and demand the GPS records for that truck. He ended up very lucky (the files showed over 300 alledged speed offences) that the cops stuffed up on some technical court matters in the way they entered the evidence and case got thrown out.
The further accuracy is not needed but will become part of normal systems as a back up to confirm existing data.

Oh well feel free to carry on speeding with you phone or other gps nav device enabled in bike or car, you'll find out next time you come to grief the facts about that evidence recorder your carrying around...

[bogan]

close enough...
GPS will record close enough...
...close enough
... the difference is negligible...


Nope, still not sounding like a gold standard :killingme


If you want to fuck with gps data (called tampering with evidence at houses of higher repute than yours) go for it....
The other thing about protesting a ticket via GPS is that once you announce that the cops have the right to examine ALL the recorded evidence not what you select. Eg you could not turn up to a murder trial and only enter certain pages of your personal diary as evidence to defend yourself, you'd have to table the whole book or file. And with holding the rest would be grounds for cops to obtain a warrant to see what you don't want seen.
The case I mentioned earlier was all started (in my view, could have been other reasons) by a truck driver protesting that his GPS said 96 when he got radared at 98. This then gave the cops the heads up/right to come to the workplace and demand the GPS records for that truck. He ended up very lucky (the files showed over 300 alledged speed offences) that the cops stuffed up on some technical court matters in the way they entered the evidence and case got thrown out.
The further accuracy is not needed but will become part of normal systems as a back up to confirm existing data.

So people that break the law will all be put off breaking another one to cover their arse, just cos it would be breaking a law? not too solid logic there bud. The point is that it won't become a gold-standard speed measurement precisely because it is so easy to tamper with. Neither is it a reading to be relied upon unless you have to submit evidence of 300 other offenses to get off just the one.


Oh well feel free to carry on speeding with you phone or other gps nav device enabled in bike or car, you'll find out next time you come to grief the facts about that evidence recorder your carrying around...

Ah, so it isn't a way to get off tickets anymore, just a conspiracy theory way to get more? Doesn't seem like something to promote over radar or speedo then does it :whistle:

[Dave-]

Nah, getting Jesus to take the wheel won't help you either.

Consumer GPS reads have enough innacuracy that the positions must be averaged to get a speed reading, so no, it is not instantaneous. In fact if you pull out and boost passed someone then slow down, the GPS will never record your true maximum speed. Additionaly, GPS has much higher altitude inaccuracy due to the angle it sees the sats at, so will often not read correctly going up or down hills (good thing cops never sit at the bottom of hills though eh :rolleyes:). And finally, fucking with the GPS data is pretty easy, if one could successfully protest a ticked purely with their own gps data, revenues would plummet; unless of course you sent them a whole days worth of data by mistake, right? :facepalm:

Wifi to enable further accuracy? surely you're not suggesting further accuracy is needed or attainable? I thought GPS was already the gold-standard speed reading :crazy:

There's also a handful of fringe effects associated with GPS that can lead to inaccuracies.

[R650R]

Nope, still not sounding like a gold standard :killingme



So people that break the law will all be put off breaking another one to cover their arse, just cos it would be breaking a law? not too solid logic there bud. The point is that it won't become a gold-standard speed measurement precisely because it is so easy to tamper with. Neither is it a reading to be relied upon unless you have to submit evidence of 300 other offenses to get off just the one.



Ah, so it isn't a way to get off tickets anymore, just a conspiracy theory way to get more? Doesn't seem like something to promote over radar or speedo then does it :whistle:

Another internet stain that cant read properly.....

[bogan]

Another internet stain that cant read properly.....

Another thunderous shitlord who after losing an argument tries to find some semantics to hide behind.

The answer we were looking for by the way, is GPS doppler shift velocity calculation, go read up on that if the words aren't too big for you.

[R650R]

Another thunderous shitlord who after losing an argument tries to find some semantics to hide behind.

The answer we were looking for by the way, is GPS doppler shift velocity calculation, go read up on that if the words aren't too big for you.

Another sore loser... no further verbal diaroeha will be entered into over this issue.

306475

[bogan]

Another sore loser... no further verbal diaroeha will be entered into over this issue.

Another delusional twat who has to devolve into blanket claims of being 'right' instead of having the wherewithal to show it.

[roogazza]

Hey fellas ,at least we haven't got this going on ?
Adelaide hills , Australia.
306477306478

[Ulsterkiwi]

Hey fellas ,at least we haven't got this going on ?
Adelaide hills , Australia.
306477306478

the camouflage is only to reduce the risk of Australian IS fighters from destroying the camera and making those bits of road more dangerous for the infidels who ride on them. :bleh:

[haydes55]

Hey fellas ,at least we haven't got this going on ?

Adelaide hills , Australia.

[]


I hope they threw the camera down the hill, pointed it backwards or painted it bright orange.

[Big Dog]

Hey fellas ,at least we haven't got this going on ?
Adelaide hills ,

Doesn't really matter what the intent. When you go army surplus you have to expect people to react as threatened. From the thumb nail I assumed you were implying they had radar guided SMG.

You just know if this was West Auckland that camera rig would be converted to some sort of possum hunting device by sundown.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[R650R]

Hey fellas ,at least we haven't got this going on ?
Adelaide hills , Australia.


I'd say we prob have, they do it with trucks and the southern cops did it with boy racers blowing stop signs... Anything is legit under the new SSA...

[Mo NZ]

They also put then in wheelie bins, chained to a post.

[nzspokes]

So places its harder to run than others.....

[Scuba_Steve]

Just to confuse some people

306513

[_Shrek_]

Just to confuse some people

306513

I think you'll find the council has changed the speed limit with out NZTA approval

[Scuba_Steve]

Well the Police gang are continuing their trend of dangerous driving in pursuit of a scam...
Cop in his orange gang car has ploughed into an innocent vehicle while performing... You guessed it, a U-Turn to chase & extort someone driving in the opposite direction
Don't know how to post the pics but can tell you it happened near Stanmore Bay & the gang members car rego was HJS520

This being an actual road safety issue I assume he'll be done for dangerous driving ay resident popo's... [insert tui sign] :rolleyes:

[caspernz]

Well the Police gang are continuing their trend of dangerous driving in pursuit of a scam...
Cop in his orange gang car has ploughed into an innocent vehicle while performing... You guessed it, a U-Turn to chase & extort someone driving in the opposite direction
Don't know how to post the pics but can tell you it happened near Stanmore Bay & the gang members car rego was HJS520

This being an actual road safety issue I assume he'll be done for dangerous driving ay resident popo's... [insert tui sign] :rolleyes:

Well Scoober, it might surprise you that if I asked my truck driving colleagues to list collective close calls with "enthusiastically operated" emergency vehicles in various parts of the country it becomes quite a substantial list. Hate to say it but the HP boys come third on that list...:scratch:

[scumdog]

Well the Police gang are continuing their trend of dangerous driving in pursuit of a scam...
Cop in his orange gang car has ploughed into an innocent vehicle while performing... You guessed it, a U-Turn to chase & extort someone driving in the opposite direction
Don't know how to post the pics but can tell you it happened near Stanmore Bay & the gang members car rego was HJS520

This being an actual road safety issue I assume he'll be done for dangerous driving ay resident popo's... [insert tui sign] :rolleyes:

And???...:wait::scratch:

[FJRider]

... This being an actual road safety issue I assume he'll be done for dangerous driving ay resident popo's... [insert tui sign] :rolleyes:

Lies ... :laugh: ... that other motorist was (must have been) speeding. Two sides to a story. The published one ... or facts. Believe all you read in the papers and YOU are the fool.


Now who to believe ... ??? ;) ... ME or a syndicated Newspaper ... :blank:

[Scuba_Steve]

And???...:wait::scratch:

yea, yea, I know it's that common amongst your gang members it's becoming the norm but we should never accept it as "ok"

[scumdog]

yea, yea, I know it's that common amongst your gang members it's becoming the norm but we should never accept it as "ok"


OK.....so somebody screwed up.
It happens

[swarfie]

And???...:wait::scratch:


OK.....so somebody screwed up.
It happens

Love it how you blokes can seem so casual about this..does the name Paul Brown (Browny to his mates, of which I had the privilege of being one) ring a bell? Yeah it happens but it still hurts :angry:

[scumdog]

Love it how you blokes can seem so casual about this..does the name Paul Brown (Browny to his mates, of which I had the privilege of being one) ring a bell? Yeah it happens but it still hurts :angry:

Maybe...:confused:

[FJRider]

This being an actual road safety issue I assume he'll be done for dangerous driving ay resident popo's... [insert tui sign] :rolleyes:

If it WAS an Accident ... NOBODY IS at fault ... right ... :scratch:

The General consensus of opinion (seems to be to those [non Police] involved in such) ... is accidents are nobody's fault ... or have I got it wrong ... AGAIN ..

[Berries]

I think you'll find the council has changed the speed limit with out NZTA approval
NZTA approval is not needed anymore. They have to be consulted and can require a 'dangerous' speed limit to be changed however the councils have much more power to set their own limits these days seeing as they do it in their own bylaws rather than needing NZTA to gazette it.

[R650R]

Well the Police gang are continuing their trend of dangerous driving in pursuit of a scam...
Cop in his orange gang car has ploughed into an innocent vehicle while performing... You guessed it, a U-Turn to chase & extort someone driving in the opposite direction
Don't know how to post the pics but can tell you it happened near Stanmore Bay & the gang members car rego was HJS520

This being an actual road safety issue I assume he'll be done for dangerous driving ay resident popo's... [insert tui sign] :rolleyes:

Pictures or it never happened.... oh here we go :)

https://www.facebook.com/delta10seven/photos/a.512943565466754.1073741829.395351937225918/743045085789933/?type=1&theater

[R650R]

Well Scoober, it might surprise you that if I asked my truck driving colleagues to list collective close calls with "enthusiastically operated" emergency vehicles in various parts of the country it becomes quite a substantial list. Hate to say it but the HP boys come third on that list...:scratch:

Now you've moved to paradise city beware of the one that likes to pull cars up on the left lane of the two lane Takanini overpass section of southern motorway...
I wonder if their allowed to turn the traction control off on those new SV6 patrol cars... could fiim some nice police drifting videos outside my house....

[Reckless]

oh yeh here to??

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/171608-Looks-like-another-U_TURN-blunder

Mods can merge it or leave it where it is?? I don't mind?

[caspernz]

Now you've moved to paradise city beware of the one that likes to pull cars up on the left lane of the two lane Takanini overpass section of southern motorway...

Onboard camera use is encouraged for all dubious activities...

[scumdog]

Pictures or it never happened.... oh here we go :)

https://www.facebook.com/delta10seven/photos/a.512943565466754.1073741829.395351937225918/743045085789933/?type=1&theater

Meh, it'll buff out...:innocent:

(And FB is worse than KB for moronic ranting, I might join!)

[R650R]

Meh, it'll buff out...:innocent:

(And FB is worse than KB for moronic ranting, I might join!)

That truck page is diabolical and a tad embarrassing to the industry... it does offer an interesting insight into the mindset of the (less than) average driver out there and the attitudes that cause crashes.

[caspernz]

That truck page is diabolical and a tad embarrassing to the industry... it does offer an interesting insight into the mindset of the (less than) average driver out there and the attitudes that cause crashes.

Not really, every group has a vocal minority, while the majority just takes care of business.

[Ulsterkiwi]

I am curious.
Forget about this particular incident as we dont know the whole story. BUT, for the sake of discussion a police officer on duty has an accident and its shown to be his/her fault. What happens? Do they actually get prosecuted as anyone else would? Do they have their police driving ticket revoked? Do they have a stand down period or have to do remedial training? I am the first to accept police officers are human like everyone else and mistakes will happen but in the course of driving a police vehicle in a duty period they might be called upon to drive in a manner not normally permitted for regular road use. I have no issue with that and understand the need, if I needed emergency services I would be pissed off if they stopped for every red light and didnt move through traffic. That said I dont think it is unreasonable such drivers are expected to perform at a much higher standard OR that they maintain those standards over the course of time. So, what happens?

[haydes55]

I am curious.

Forget about this particular incident as we dont know the whole story. BUT, for the sake of discussion a police officer on duty has an accident and its shown to be his/her fault. What happens? Do they actually get prosecuted as anyone else would? Do they have their police driving ticket revoked? Do they have a stand down period or have to do remedial training? I am the first to accept police officers are human like everyone else and mistakes will happen but in the course of driving a police vehicle in a duty period they might be called upon to drive in a manner not normally permitted for regular road use. I have no issue with that and understand the need, if I needed emergency services I would be pissed off if they stopped for every red light and didnt move through traffic. That said I dont think it is unreasonable such drivers are expected to perform at a much higher standard OR that they maintain those standards over the course of time. So, what happens?


I expect them to not fuck up basic shit that even learners have to know. I expect their actions to be done with a degree of common sense. Deliberately using the vehicle in a dangerous/risky manner is not necessary to perform their job.

If they cause a crash that could have been avoided whilst still performing their duties, then they should be prosecuted. If a police car is crashed while pursuing a runner, then prosecute the cop, they fucked up, they should drive better, the person they were chasing managed to negotiate that corner safely, and the cop didn't then the cop is a more dangerous driver than the person they are trying to prosecute for driving dangerously.

[Swoop]

Hey fellas ,at least we haven't got this going on ?
Adelaide hills , Australia.
I hope he took the equipment with him. We don't want to have dangerous things left on the roadside.:bash:

[Tazz]

Hey fellas ,at least we haven't got this going on ?
Adelaide hills , Australia.
306477306478

Yeah we do. Up the Rai Valley they'll have a cop hidden pinging you and further down the road they'll issue you their mandatory payment autograph.
Straight from the horses mouth in the Marlborough Express some time last year.

And don't they also hang out in camper vans dishing out tickets between games of cards?

Never been done by either method mind.

[rastuscat]

I am curious.
Forget about this particular incident as we dont know the whole story. BUT, for the sake of discussion a police officer on duty has an accident and its shown to be his/her fault. What happens? Do they actually get prosecuted as anyone else would? Do they have their police driving ticket revoked? Do they have a stand down period or have to do remedial training? I am the first to accept police officers are human like everyone else and mistakes will happen but in the course of driving a police vehicle in a duty period they might be called upon to drive in a manner not normally permitted for regular road use. I have no issue with that and understand the need, if I needed emergency services I would be pissed off if they stopped for every red light and didnt move through traffic. That said I dont think it is unreasonable such drivers are expected to perform at a much higher standard OR that they maintain those standards over the course of time. So, what happens?

We are subject to the same laws as everyone else, and so we should be.

Legislation allows certain exemptions eg parking, exceeding speed limit, going through red lights, when acting in execution of duty.

But nothing discharges our duty of care pursuant to the Land Transport Act.

Worry not, I've seen a ton of cops charged over the years. Wrote a ticket for one after a crash a couple of years back. He and I still laugh about it. He knew he'd blown it, and knew what I had to do.

The days of sweeping under the carpet are gone.

[Ocean1]

The days of sweeping under the carpet are gone.


There's still some fucking big lumps under there though...

[Ulsterkiwi]

We are subject to the same laws as everyone else, and so we should be.

Legislation allows certain exemptions eg parking, exceeding speed limit, going through red lights, when acting in execution of duty.

But nothing discharges our duty of care pursuant to the Land Transport Act.

Worry not, I've seen a ton of cops charged over the years. Wrote a ticket for one after a crash a couple of years back. He and I still laugh about it. He knew he'd blown it, and knew what I had to do.

The days of sweeping under the carpet are gone.

cheers for the response and it is reassuring to read that response. You have answered half the query. Subject to the same laws makes sense, writing tickets makes sense. I am wondering about remedial action however. Many other professional groupings are obliged to demonstrate they are able to continue executing responsibilities to the appropriate standard. So lets say for the sake of argument a mistake is made which causes significant harm to people or property, is a police driver allowed to continue to be a police driver in light of that? I dont even mean some kind of permanent ban, but I can think of any number of jobs where some kind of refresher training or supervision is put in place if serious mistakes are made.

[R650R]

... What happens? Do they actually get prosecuted as anyone else would? ...That said I dont think it is unreasonable such drivers are expected to perform at a much higher standard...

They do, but the problem is they get the same wet bus ticket sentances and leniency due to mitigating circumstances that joe public also enjoys too...
Their actions represent such a small group as a percentage of all other threats from bad road users that its not worth worrying about. It prob seems worse than it is as its always spectacular much how like a truck rollover represents higher news value than a car that has had same crash when the circumstances causing it may have been same.

[scumdog]

There's still some fucking big lumps under there though...

Old ones.

Bosses don't like getting caught out lifting the carpet to put the lumps there these days:no:

[Ulsterkiwi]

.......Their actions represent such a small group as a percentage of all other threats from bad road users that its not worth worrying about.....

That certainly makes sense from the perspective of actual data and stats derived from them. Perception is a very powerful thing though and can influence as strongly as actual evidence. If there is a perception a police officer is not dealt to by the same laws it really doesn't matter what has actually happened. Stories like http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/10679485/Ex-cop-pleads-guilty-to-drug-charges tend to be forgotten.

So following your line of thought if the punitive outcomes for dangerous/reckless driving are not that punitive for civilians then all the more reason to be asking what happens to a Police driver's driving status if they are in a serious incident where they have been proven to have been at fault.

[scumdog]

. So lets say for the sake of argument a mistake is made which causes significant harm to people or property, is a police driver allowed to continue to be a police driver in light of that? I dont even mean some kind of permanent ban, but I can think of any number of jobs where some kind of refresher training or supervision is put in place if serious mistakes are made.

They get sent for remedial training.

Have to pass to be allowed back in the car.

[Ocean1]

Old ones.

Bosses don't like getting caught out lifting the carpet to put the lumps there these days:no:

They never did. There's just a lot more cameras around these days.

[Ocean1]

By way of comparison: http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/news/vintage-speed/the-5-best-and-5-worst-states-to-get-caught-speeding?src=nl&mag=pop&list=nl_pnl_news&date=120814#slide-1

[Ulsterkiwi]

They get sent for remedial training.

Have to pass to be allowed back in the car.

thank you, makes sense, acknowledges problem, try to ensure it doesnt happen again.

Now, next thought which kind of ties in to another thread running at the minute from Rastuscat about retesting for a licence. How about if a civilian were to be in a serious incident proven to be their fault that they have to undertake remedial training?

To come back to the speeding issue (before the mods think this is too off topic) what if a change in tack is taken. If the object of clamping down on speeding is not revenue collection. Why not make excessive speeders pay for and attend some kind of training course instead of a fine?

[rastuscat]

I am wondering about remedial action however. Many other professional groupings are obliged to demonstrate they are able to continue executing responsibilities to the appropriate standard. So lets say for the sake of argument a mistake is made which causes significant harm to people or property, is a police driver allowed to continue to be a police driver in light of that? I dont even mean some kind of permanent ban, but I can think of any number of jobs where some kind of refresher training or supervision is put in place if serious mistakes are made.

Each crash by emergency services (fire, ambo and popo) is collated and considered by a crash panel. Whoever attended and dealt with the incident makes a recommendation re action, but the crash panel gets to make the final call.

Certainly for us, the panel often recommends a remedial driving assessment. To be fair, the crash itself has more impact than any subsequent remedial action.

If the popo loses his/her licence, depending on the circumstances, they may also lose their job. That's potentially harsher than many jobs. In some circumstances though, that may be excessive, and the officer may be assigned to duties involving not driving. That's, again, often more penalty than the courts will issue.

It's not all swept under the carpet, despite the perception. For sure, sometimes we don't release the reasons why certain decisions are made, and that's potentially where the sweeping thing comes from.

You would be surprised how many people, not in the Police, get given the benefit of non-prosecution, in circumstances where we prosecute our own, simply for appearances sake.

Just sayin.

[rastuscat]

They do, but the problem is they get the same wet bus ticket sentances and leniency due to mitigating circumstances that joe public also enjoys too...
Their actions represent such a small group as a percentage of all other threats from bad road users that its not worth worrying about. It prob seems worse than it is as its always spectacular much how like a truck rollover represents higher news value than a car that has had same crash when the circumstances causing it may have been same.

Police cars dinged always make great shots in a paper.

Just sayin.

[scumdog]

I remember a police officer who busted me years ago for going through a red light that I had stopped at but my bike was not able to trigger the sensor got done sometime later for thieft.

Ya got done for 'thieft'?

Wazzat??

[FJRider]

Ya got done for 'thieft'?

Wazzat??

A computer illiterate with no spell check ...

[nzspokes]

I remember a police officer who busted me years ago for going through a red light that I had stopped at but my bike was not able to trigger the sensor got done sometime later for thieft.

Shame he didn't send you to remedial English lessons.

[awayatc]

The police officer got done for thieft. I felt it was Karma.

How does karma feel......?
or was karma a police officer....?
or was it karma that made the light stay red....?
or was the police officer in a karmann ghia.....?
but most of all what the fuck is thieft.......?

[Akzle]

but most of all what the fuck is thieft.......?

that's what happens when the ego can type faster than the (brain??)

[Voltaire]

that's what happens when the ego can type faster than the (brain??)

When you going to show a pic of your non existent motorcycle rob :killingme:killingme:killingme:killingme:killingme :killingme:killingme:killingme

[Akzle]

When you going to show a pic of your non existent motorcycle rob :killingme:killingme:killingme:killingme:killingme :killingme:killingme:killingme

come over for a coffee, you can see it in 3D, IRL man!!. that's gotta get you harder than anything you'll google up.

(although, seriously, and i love repeating myself because it makes you look like a fucking moron) look it up fuckknuckle.

[FJRider]

When you going to show a pic of your non existent motorcycle rob :killingme:killingme:killingme:killingme:killingme :killingme:killingme:killingme

suzuki's DO exist. Even HIS.





What is seen ... cannot be erased from your memory.



Don't ask ... it only encourages him ...

[scumdog]

it makes you look like a fucking moron

Morons can fuck??

Shoooweee, there's hope for you yet Rob!:killingme:rofl::shutup:.

[Berries]

Morons can fuck??
And I thought you knew Kai?

[scumdog]

And I thought you knew Kai?

Even there they can't!

[R650R]

Another well informed poster who has to devolve into producing evidence from the horses mouth to show how right he is... .


http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/64076719/GPS-speeds-accurate read it and weep my bitch :)

[Laava]

Morons can fuck?:.

Even worse, they can breed!

[awayatc]

Morons breed like fuck......

[bogan]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/64076719/GPS-speeds-accurate read it and weep my bitch :)

That'll be that doppler effect speed calcs i alluded to earlier. Now tell me, is that what phone/tablet uses for speed readings?

[BlackSheepLogic]

That certainly makes sense from the perspective of actual data and stats derived from them. Perception is a very powerful thing though and can influence as strongly as actual evidence. If there is a perception a police officer is not dealt to by the same laws it really doesn't matter what has actually happened

Per KM traveled the police accident rate is probably quite low compared to the average license holder (they are trained to a higher level). Because they are in the public eye any mistake makes the news. Many years when I severally scratched up my bike (100% my fault, single vehicle) it did not make the news and I was not ticketed either.

I don't know the facts in this case but I do wonder why in generally the public & media want to see officers punished to the maximum extent possible under the law while we ourselves expect the police to use discretion when we fuck up.

[Akzle]

Per KM traveled the police accident rate is probably quite low compared to the average license holder (they are trained to a higher level). Because they are in the public eye any mistake makes the news. Many years when I severally scratched up my bike (100% my fault, single vehicle) it did not make the news and I was not ticketed either.

I don't know the facts in this case but I do wonder why in generally the public & media want to see officers punished to the maximum extent possible under the law while we ourselves expect the police to use discretion when we fuck up.

cry me a fucking river.

better trained? are they really? and, if that the case, is there EVER an excuse for them to be at fault?
it really doesnt take a whole lot to not fuck up.

i constantly wonder that "the average license holder" manages to put food in the right hole often enough to stay alive,
but no, there are many professional/enthusiastic road users who would clock up as many or more KMs that the average po without incident.
anyone who fucks up anyone elses day at any time should be keel hauled.

[Big Dog]

That'll be that doppler effect speed calcs i alluded to earlier. Now tell me, is that what phone/tablet uses for speed readings?

I doubt it given my iPhone is accurate to 45 meters claimed and my Garmin claims 6feet stationary and 9 feet in motion.
Even then my icon on either may be offset by up to 30 meters in motion by the software to accommodate variations between road and map etc.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Big Dog]

Also poll interval is generally variable on cellphones or other hand helps. Vehicle mounted normally aren't. Though when I was shopping around I saw some models allow you to halve the poll rate on battery.



Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Reckless]

Looks like they are doin it guys 3 so far :Police:

Came off Michael Laws Facebook (dunno why it came up on mine??) Link to stuff article.

Michael Laws
27 mins · Timaru ·
Memo: NZ Police
Topic: Being arseholes & losing public support
Just keep doing what you're doing: your traffic section should have ruined the entire goodwill of the NZ Police by the end of Christmas holidays.

Stuff http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/64089533/Police-fine-speeding-drivers-under-zero-tolerance

Police fine speeding drivers under zero tolerance
Police have fined three drivers for speeding under 5kmh over the limit.
National road policing manager Superintendent Carey Griffiths said this showed officers had used their discretion "appropriately".
Police said they would ticket drivers travelling even 1kmh over the limit during the summer period.
Three motorists were ticketed in the first week.
"Our staff will continue to use their discretion and their judgment to fairly deal with drivers if stopped for speeding," Griffiths said.
Whether or not someone received an infringement depended on road and weather conditions, their driving behaviour and their risk to other motorists.
"The limit is still the limit, which is the maximum legally safe speed to travel on that section of road in ideal conditions."
Speed cameras were set to a reduced 4km/h threshold over summer, but it would take several weeks before infringement numbers were known, he said.


Links to other articles ( which I dont have time to read atm)
http://www.odt.co.nz/regions/central-otago/326918/central-mayor-says-police-losing-respect

[Murray]

I can tell the speed difference to maybe 5kmh difference, but to 1kmh? Nah, that's beyond me.

And the zero tolerance hubbub was caused by the media, not us. I doubt anyone has been tagged for 1 over. And if they have, it's be unusual circumstance.


Looks like they are doin it guys 3 so far :Police:

Police have fined three drivers for speeding under 5kmh over the limit.


Will Rastuscat's self rating speed up to 5kms fail here? Maybe he will have to keep an eye on that speedo more often.

[R650R]

Looks like they are doin it guys 3 so far :Police:

Came off Michael Laws Facebook (dunno why it came up on mine??) Link to stuff article.

[/url]

Translation: Out of thousands of vehicles passing police in that area during the course of the day, three of them failed the attitude test :)

[FJRider]

"Our staff will continue to use their discretion and their judgment to fairly deal with drivers if stopped for speeding," Griffiths said.

Give them lip and the discretion to not issue an infringement notice ... evaporates ...


Whether or not someone received an infringement depended on road and weather conditions, their driving behaviour and their risk to other motorists.
"The limit is still the limit, which is the maximum legally safe speed to travel on that section of road in ideal conditions."

Regardless of what the speed limit is on ANY road ... some places ARE dangerous at that speed. Vehicle capability and Police discretion can go hand in hand. Give them lip for stopping you ... and .. :doh:


Speed cameras were set to a reduced 4km/h threshold over summer, but it would take several weeks before infringement numbers were known, he said.[/I]


The GOOD news is ... you ARE allowed to give the speed camera lip. NOT the camera operator though ...

[R650R]

I don't know the facts in this case but I do wonder why in generally the public & media want to see officers punished to the maximum extent possible under the law while we ourselves expect the police to use discretion when we fuck up.

Wonder no more, its a well known condition affecting 100% of the first world population and known as Acute Hypocriticitis Whinus Maximus :)

[Reckless]

Translation: Out of thousands of vehicles passing police in that area during the course of the day, three of them failed the attitude test :)

OH You mean?? Sorry officer I wont be fucked off you pulled me up for 102 :nono:

I've been saying for ages this carry on will end badly I think my common comment was "us and them" mentality

This is everywhere on Facebook to

Classic Auto News
CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE
I challenge every person who gets a speeding ticket under the zero tolerance regime to fight it.
Here's what you do.
When pulled up.
1. Ask to see the officer's certificate indicating he/she is trained to operate radar speed detection equipment.
2. Ask to see all certificates relating to the unit itself and check that all serial numbers are correct.
3. Ask to see the day's test results that should have been done before the officer went on patrol.
If all of those things are in order take the matter to court.
— Ask for proof that the radar units are capable of recording zero tolerance speeds. I believe they are plus/minus 2 or 3 percent.
— Ask how zero tolerance can be enforced when speedometers in cars in NZ are only required to be accurate to within plus/minus 10 percent under the Australian Design Rules (ADRs) that this country has adopted.
Of course, it's futile if you are 15 or 20km.h over the limit, but if there's a shadow of doubt — challenge it in court.

[Big Dog]

So de ja vu.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[scumdog]

Translation: Out of thousands of vehicles passing police in that area during the course of the day, three of them failed the attitude test :)

Were the tickets for 1kph over???:msn-wink:

[scumdog]

OH You mean?? Sorry officer I wont be fucked off you pulled me up for 102 :nono:

I've been saying for ages this carry on will end badly I think my common comment was "us and them" mentality

This is everywhere on Facebook to

Classic Auto News
CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE
I challenge every person who gets a speeding ticket under the zero tolerance regime to fight it.
Here's what you do.
When pulled up.
1. Ask to see the officer's certificate indicating he/she is trained to operate radar speed detection equipment.
2. Ask to see all certificates relating to the unit itself and check that all serial numbers are correct.
3. Ask to see the day's test results that should have been done before the officer went on patrol.
If all of those things are in order take the matter to court.
— Ask for proof that the radar units are capable of recording zero tolerance speeds. I believe they are plus/minus 2 or 3 percent.
— Ask how zero tolerance can be enforced when speedometers in cars in NZ are only required to be accurate to within plus/minus 10 percent under the Australian Design Rules (ADRs) that this country has adopted.
Of course, it's futile if you are 15 or 20km.h over the limit, but if there's a shadow of doubt — challenge it in court.

Sung to the tune of an old musical: "Pa-ra-noia here Ah come...":rolleyes:

[R650R]

This is everywhere on Facebook to...



Oh yeah that gives it credibility now....

I bet you not one of those people grandstanding on this will ever test their cut n paste bush lawyer protocol in a real courtroom. If their so sure about it they could easily deliberately speed past a cop to test it out...

306629

[scumdog]

Oh yeah that gives it credibility now....

I bet you not one of those people grandstanding on this will ever test their cut n paste bush lawyer protocol in a real courtroom. If their so sure about it they could easily deliberately speed past a cop to test it out...



"Must spread etc"

Love your tact!!:clap:

[BigAl]

Looks like they are doin it guys 3 so far :Police:

Came off Michael Laws Facebook (dunno why it came up on mine??) Link to stuff article.

Michael Laws
27 mins · Timaru ·
Memo: NZ Police
Topic: Being arseholes & losing public support
Just keep doing what you're doing: your traffic section should have ruined the entire goodwill of the NZ Police by the end of Christmas holidays.

Good to see M Laws telling it like it is, saw M Hoskings rant on about cops losing public goodwill as well the other night.

[scumdog]

Good to see M Laws telling it like it is, saw M Hoskings rant on about cops losing public goodwill as well the other night.

Those types do it to raise the ratings of their talk-back show.

Next week the topic will be axe-murderers and unexplained deaths of under-two-year-olds..

[FJRider]

... saw M Hoskings rant on about cops losing public goodwill as well the other night.

Why do cops (I assume you refer to Highway Patrols) need "Public Goodwill" and Bikers don't .. ???

Discretion comes with a price ... :lol:

[FJRider]

... and unexplained deaths of under-two-year-olds..

Blood stains on the parents driveways might be a clue ... <_<

[R650R]

Good to see M Laws telling it like it is, saw M Hoskings rant on about cops losing public goodwill as well the other night.

Hoskings.... the guy who went nuts about a scratch on his Maserati caused by an old lady... yeah he knows about public goodwill. Just another shock-jockey... At least Laws usually takes a stance rather than chasing ratings...

[The Reibz]

Mike Hoskings is probably one of the biggest peices of shit in all of NZ.
On a side note I went 105kph on the motorway and didnt get fined. #ftp #yolo

[rastuscat]

On a side note I went 105kph on the motorway and didnt get fined. #ftp #yolo

Folk exceed the speed limit hundreds of times for each time they get stopped. Then they bang on about how unreasonable it is.

Just my humble observation.

Working on a Booze Bus checkpoint at the mo. More fun than a rattle snake down yer trousers.

[bogan]

Folk exceed the speed limit hundreds of times for each time they get stopped.

Hang about, are you saying exceeding the speed limit doesn't kill?

[scumdog]

Hang about, are you saying exceeding the speed limit doesn't kill?

Somebody sez it does??:confused:

[bogan]

Somebody sez it does??:confused:

Bloke called Barry Allen mentioned something about it...

[haydes55]

Folk exceed the speed limit hundreds of times for each time they get stopped. .


And 200,000 tickets last summer, if they sped 100s of times each for each one of those tickets that's 20 million incidents of speeding, causing less than 200 fatalities, so 0.00001% chance of being involved in a fatal accident..... And that's just those getting stopped. That's worth dedicating police efforts on only one factor in crashes.

Ticket bad driving, ticket those with a disregard for safety, but ticketing the safest drivers/riders for doing nothing unsafe is just ludicrous.

I actually don't understand the emphasis on speeding enforcement when sitting outside causes more deaths per year. It's more dangerous to cook your own dinner than speed.

[rastuscat]

And 200,000 tickets last summer, if they sped 100s of times each for each one of those tickets that's 20 million incidents of speeding, causing less than 200 fatalities, so 0.00001% chance of being involved in a fatal accident..... And that's just those getting stopped. That's worth dedicating police efforts on only one factor in crashes.

Ticket bad driving, ticket those with a disregard for safety, but ticketing the safest drivers/riders for doing nothing unsafe is just ludicrous.

I actually don't understand the emphasis on speeding enforcement when sitting outside causes more deaths per year. It's more dangerous to cook your own dinner than speed.

I guess that's the guys of it.

When everyone becomes a good driver, I will support the abolition of speed limits.

Until then I don't see the logic in us banging on about how bad we are as a nation of road users, then in the next breath decrying efforts to reduce the impact of the crashes that happen.

It's still a fact that when a crash happens, the higher the speed of the participants, the worse the crash will be.

[nzspokes]

Folk exceed the speed limit hundreds of times for each time they get stopped. Then they bang on about how unreasonable it is.

Just my humble observation.

Working on a Booze Bus checkpoint at the mo. More fun than a rattle snake down yer trousers.

Your allow to be on KB while working on the Booze Bus?

Does it have a doughnut machine?

[caspernz]

And 200,000 tickets last summer, if they sped 100s of times each for each one of those tickets that's 20 million incidents of speeding, causing less than 200 fatalities, so 0.00001% chance of being involved in a fatal accident..... And that's just those getting stopped. That's worth dedicating police efforts on only one factor in crashes.

Ticket bad driving, ticket those with a disregard for safety, but ticketing the safest drivers/riders for doing nothing unsafe is just ludicrous.

I actually don't understand the emphasis on speeding enforcement when sitting outside causes more deaths per year. It's more dangerous to cook your own dinner than speed.

Please report for brainwashing at your nearest indoctrination facility forthwith :shutup::facepalm::innocent:

[R650R]

And 200,000 tickets last summer, if they sped 100s of times each for each one of those tickets that's 20 million incidents of speeding, causing less than 200 fatalities, so 0.00001% chance of being involved in a fatal accident..... And that's just those getting stopped. That's worth dedicating police efforts on only one factor in crashes.

Ticket bad driving, ticket those with a disregard for safety, but ticketing the safest drivers/riders for doing nothing unsafe is just ludicrous.

I actually don't understand the emphasis on speeding enforcement when sitting outside causes more deaths per year. It's more dangerous to cook your own dinner than speed.

I guess the Red light runners and repeat drink drivers could prob use the same maths to support their case too....

[caspernz]

I guess the Red light runners and repeat drink drivers could prob use the same maths to support their case too....

Not even close. An activity that has a direct danger vs an indirect danger. Someone running thru the red becomes a bumper ornament on my 50max unit whether I'm doing 2 km/h over or under the local limit. Ditto for the drink driver.

[R650R]

Not even close. An activity that has a direct danger vs an indirect danger. Someone running thru the red becomes a bumper ornament on my 50max unit whether I'm doing 2 km/h over or under the local limit. Ditto for the drink driver.

Not every time. The other guy was talking about general speeding, eg a little 10-30k over the limit like many people do and in comparison I talk about those that run red lights like they do as normal driving in Auckland, and then the repeat drink drivers ( yes its dangerous and stupid) who don't crash every time they do it.
I was being sarcastic to a certain extent but a crash involves several factors to occur not just one.
BTW I'd expect a driver of your experience to look left and right even on green lights so he wont be under your bumper with good defensive driving. :)

[haydes55]

I guess the Red light runners and repeat drink drivers could prob use the same maths to support their case too....


Red light running isn't as common as speeding, and I bet red light running causes more crashes every year than speeding. So not the same. Drunk driving again different, chances of crashing when drunk is pretty high.

[GrayWolf]

Red light running isn't as common as speeding, and I bet red light running causes more crashes every year than speeding. So not the same. Drunk driving again different, chances of crashing when drunk is pretty high.

Really you are answering your own question,... speeding is COMMON, thereby easily targetable and identifiable. Red light camera's WILL be here soon enough, you can count on it.

Drunk driving, in many ways has a similar 'cultural attitude' to speeding, it was 'common practice for years' and there IS a 'drink culture' in NZ society...
AS pointed out though, alcohol IS a suppressant on the central nervous system, which is 'deadly' when mixed with a ton plus of engine powered 'road missile'.

[rastuscat]

Red light running isn't as common as speeding, and I bet red light running causes more crashes every year than speeding. So not the same. Drunk driving again different, chances of crashing when drunk is pretty high.

Look beyond the cause. A red light offence which causes a crash is worse if the parties are going faster.

Speed causes some crashes. Not many, but some. But it's a significant determinant of the outcome of every crash, caused by whatever.

Just sayin. BTW, don't rely on red light cameras to solve the problem. Given that they will be at a small number of traffic lights, they will change behavior at those junctions, and not much beyond.

[awayatc]

I guess that's the guys of it.



It's still a fact that when a crash happens, the higher the speed of the participants, the worse the crash will be.


I have had more intelligent conversations with 2 year olds......

Saddest part is that the likes of you actually believe your own drivel....
The inmates run the asylum....

[scumdog]

I have had more intelligent conversations with 2 year olds......

Saddest part is that the likes of you actually believe your own drivel....
The inmates run the asylum....


I'm with you!

A 200kph speed limit sounds about right, after all, everybody is an above average rider/driver eh!

[awayatc]

Just look at other countries,
Either speed limits have gone up, and / or policing of speed limits has been relaxed...

there are few countries in the world as anal as nz (oz maybe) regarding speed ticketing.

If you go slower you come out better of in an accident, as sole justification for this latest pogrom?.......

Common.....

is like saying if you keep your mouth shut you will upset fewer people....

[Scuba_Steve]

In the words of John Lambert a man with over half a century in road safety incl heading up Vic Roads for a while -
"There is no reputable study that I am aware of anywhere in the world that shows speed traps saves lives, not one"

[veldthui]

On my way back from Tauranga on thursday and just south of Te Kuiti I was following a car who was following a police car. All doing a nice 104kph (including the police car) no issues. The police car was a little distance from the car but not too far. We come around a sweeping bend only to find the police car with his lights on doing a U-turn across the road to go and chase a car going the other way. This idiot then forced the car that was behind him and myself to have to brake reasonably hard to avoid smashing into him.

When are these idiots going to learn not to do U-Turns in the middle of corners. It is far worse than speeding on a dead straight bit of road.

[Big Dog]

Red light running isn't as common as speeding, and I bet red light running causes more crashes every year than speeding. So not the same. Drunk driving again different, chances of crashing when drunk is pretty high.

Have you been to Auckland?
I only go through 3 traffic lights on my way to work. There is always at least on "trailers" through on red while tailgating someone on orange.

Some locations like the entrances to Sylvia park I have missed whole green waiting for mobs of zombies to stop entering the right turn on a red arrow. I might have a green but I do ride / drive defensively.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[awayatc]

Below is a copy and paste quote from nz police academy ,regarding qualification and acceptance criteria:

Candidates need to be able to utter "do you know how fast you were going sir/ madam ?" Multiple times each day ,while writing a ticket, regardless of answer, at same time creating impression of being sincerely concerned about victims wellbeing.

Accent and stutters are acceptable, but laughing out loud or masturbating while on duty will require further evaluation and resit of exams.
Failing to meet qouta however is an instant fail resulting in dismissal.

[haydes55]

Why is the accident rate and the rate of fatalities per capita smaller in Finland and Germany? Countries where speed limits are relaxed and sometimes completely free of limits? In Germany, if you make rude hand gestures or drive in an aggressive manner you would get fined.... In NZ that's acceptable and fine. In Germany if you go over 150km/h, then you agree to being at least half of the fault in An accident, so insurance won't pay out. So people speeding know to drive defensively.

[rastuscat]

I have had more intelligent conversations with 2 year olds......

Saddest part is that the likes of you actually believe your own drivel....
The inmates run the asylum....

Nice way to reply to a post. Nothing quite like having a civil discussion.

Next time I wonder why I'm getting cynical about the job I'll refer back to your post. Thanks.

[rastuscat]

Why is the accident rate and the rate of fatalities per capita smaller in Finland and Germany? Countries where speed limits are relaxed and sometimes completely free of limits? In Germany, if you make rude hand gestures or drive in an aggressive manner you would get fined.... In NZ that's acceptable and fine. In Germany if you go over 150km/h, then you agree to being at least half of the fault in An accident, so insurance won't pay out. So people speeding know to drive defensively.


Couple of observations.

If we had roads of the standard that other countries have, it'd be a lot safer on our roads. And going faster wouldn't be so risky. But we don't have enough people paying tax to support that level of roading infrastructure.

I'd also suggest that driver training is a bigger thing in a lot of countries.

So in summary. If we had better trained drivers with a more safety conscious attitude driving on better roads, I'd support an increase in our speed limits.

[FJRider]

Why is the accident rate and the rate of fatalities per capita smaller in Finland and Germany? Countries where speed limits are relaxed and sometimes completely free of limits?

Speed limits are not based on population count. Therefore ... comparison of speed limits should not be compared to countries of similar population numbers.


In Germany, if you make rude hand gestures or drive in an aggressive manner you would get fined.... In NZ that's acceptable and fine.

Actually WRONG. You can be ... but if no accident/incident occurs ... Police (usually) use their discretion ... and ignore it. (Less paperwork) For little reward/gain in the public interest should charges be laid.


In Germany ...

WHEN were you last there ... ???

Insurance payout depends on individual policies held by vehicle owners by their respective insurers. Pay more ... GET more.

[FJRider]

Couple of observations.

If we had roads of the standard that other countries have, it'd be a lot safer on our roads. And going faster wouldn't be so risky. But we don't have enough people paying tax to support that level of roading infrastructure.

Why don't we increase the fines for existing Traffic offenses to help improve/fund existing roading infrastructure ... <_<


I'd also suggest that driver training is a bigger thing in a lot of countries.

My dad taught me to drive ... so I had expert training ... <_<


So in summary. If we had better trained drivers with a more safety conscious attitude driving on better roads, I'd support an increase in our speed limits.

My dad is dead at the moment .... so is unavailable to TRAIN anybody ... <_<

Perhaps ... we need safer vehicles on our roads .. ??? And the vehicle types that crash more often by percentage of accidents be removed from the system ... ??? <_<

[awayatc]

Nice way to reply to a post. Nothing quite like having a civil discussion.

Next time I wonder why I'm getting cynical about the job I'll refer back to your post. Thanks.

Civil discussion....?

When you dress like a wanker,
act like a wanker,
talk like a wanker,,
its safe to say you probably jerk off......
so dont blame being called a wanker on the observer

[Kickaha]

Civil discussion....?

When you dress like a wanker,
act like a wanker,
talk like a wanker,,
its safe to say you probably jerk off......
so dont blame being called a wanker on the observer



You sound like you're quite the wanker as well

[kiwi cowboy]

Couple of observations.

If we had roads of the standard that other countries have, it'd be a lot safer on our roads. And going faster wouldn't be so risky. But we don't have enough people paying tax to support that level of roading infrastructure.

I'd also suggest that driver training is a bigger thing in a lot of countries.

So in summary. If we had better trained drivers with a more safety conscious attitude driving on better roads, I'd support an increase in our speed limits.

Went for my first ride today and sat on 100 all I could but caught cars that seemed to be traveling 80-95-80-95 repeatedly until I got sick of them and passed. Were they trying to not speed and constantly watching the speedo?.Oh and one of them wasn't staying in his lane much on corners either but he wasn't speeding so he was safe right????.

[Swoop]

I'm with you!

A 200kph speed limit sounds about right...
I see no reason not to allow that limit.
It would never happen of course (someone reaching that speed on the road), since there would be some mouth-breathing spastic dawdling along in the fast lane doing 90kmh.

[R650R]

Why is the accident rate and the rate of fatalities per capita smaller in Finland and Germany?

Well they don't have fluoridated water supplies for a start...
Even if we did have better roads we'd still have major problems. We have a road rage culture due to our obsession with contact sports and an overly competitive streak.
For some reason NZ'ers tend to think their geniuses at everything, I suppose it stem form the pioneers fashioning stuff out of number eight wire. But when you go overseas there's way more innovation and talent happening than in NZ.
Thing is your ability to improvise with number eight wire of 4x2 timber doesn't translate into correcting a car back into control...

[rastuscat]

I was giving an educational presentation at a workplace last week. It's one of a series of presentations for groups of tradies, and I was asked to come and give them 5 to 10 min on the new drink drive levels.

I had a chat to the health and safety folk at each site, and we came to much the same conclusion.

People here generally think that those bad things won't happen to them. For that reason, they see no reason to change their behaviour.

The big issue is that generally, they are right. Like, an electrician will probably go through his career with a few small shocks, but he'll avoid the one that could kill him. It won't happen to him, so he's as careful as he thinks he needs to be.

Unfortunately, some sparky somewhere will be killed by electricity due to some gap in their work practise. Some forestry worker will die, but if you had asked him 10 minutes earlier, he'd likely have told you that it won't happen to him.

Similarly, if I attend a crash, and say to any of the parties involved "Were you expecting that to happen?" they will always say no. Always. That same person, if I had spoken to them ten minutes before the crash, wouldn't have expected the crash, so where is their incentive to change the way they drive?

It's the It Wont Happen To Me syndrome. I don't know if it's an international thing, but it's sure alive and well in NZ.

It's why a lot of people don't connect with those road safety messages that get broadcast. It won't happen to them, so why would they have the change their driving.

Just putting it out there.

[haydes55]

I was giving an educational presentation at a workplace last week. It's one of a series of presentations for groups of tradies, and I was asked to come and give them 5 to 10 min on the new drink drive levels.



I had a chat to the health and safety folk at each site, and we came to much the same conclusion.



People here generally think that those bad things won't happen to them. For that reason, they see no reason to change their behaviour.



The big issue is that generally, they are right. Like, an electrician will probably go through his career with a few small shocks, but he'll avoid the one that could kill him. It won't happen to him, so he's as careful as he thinks he needs to be.



Unfortunately, some sparky somewhere will be killed by electricity due to some gap in their work practise. Some forestry worker will die, but if you had asked him 10 minutes earlier, he'd likely have told you that it won't happen to him.



Similarly, if I attend a crash, and say to any of the parties involved "Were you expecting that to happen?" they will always say no. Always. That same person, if I had spoken to them ten minutes before the crash, wouldn't have expected the crash, so where is their incentive to change the way they drive?



It's the It Wont Happen To Me syndrome. I don't know if it's an international thing, but it's sure alive and well in NZ.



It's why a lot of people don't connect with those road safety messages that get broadcast. It won't happen to them, so why would they have the change their driving.



Just putting it out there.


$500 bet I can guarantee I won't be involved in a car accident for the rest of my life.

I can't make the same bet about motorbikes yet, still learning new tricks at the moment.

But seriously. I have no idea how to crash a car.

[R650R]

It's the It Wont Happen To Me syndrome. I don't know if it's an international thing, but it's sure alive and well in NZ.

It's why a lot of people don't connect with those road safety messages that get broadcast. It won't happen to them, so why would they have the change their driving.

Just putting it out there.

Agreed but I'd amend "It wont happen" to "Not likely to happen and if it does I may as well be having fun when it does"...

The thing with crashes is with E=MC2 and all that the impact experience is scaled on an exponential curve with speed being one of the axis. Lots of people have low speed dings or offs when learning or early in driving lifetimes and ohhh that wasn't so bad. Its not like the hand on the stove as an inquisitive kid where its jesus Christ that fkn hurt!!! Its like as if the element was only luke warm and that the people who say it burns must be softies...

And on top of that human nature aspect you're bombarded with so many threats these days. You could die tomorrow from an Al CIAda attack, ebola, aids from that crumpet at the bar, a knife from the missus when she hears about the crumpet at the bar, hundreds of varieties of cancers.... etc etc. Its very easy to have a fatalistic attitude in modern society. So why crawl along at Nana pace having a boring life when someone else might end it early for you anyway... Not entirely my point of view but just expanding on why so many people don't mind chewing on ghost chips...

Young people these days are tired of the fake shock and awe ads, most know that the mainstream media is a bought and paid for sideshow, so why should they take note of tv ads clearly funded by a govt agency....
Russian Dashcams where its at, I connect with that stuff and it slows me down.... Its real and it happened to someone out there...
Maybe its time the govt gave up on the hearts and minds thing with road safety. Just look at the Americans, even with bombs and regime change they have trouble getting people to change their longly held beliefs.
The only thi9ng you can do is write off everyone who already has a license as a lost cause and just concentrate on the new learner drivers coming through. These new tests where everyone is crying that are too hard are just what we needed....

[R650R]

$500 bet I can guarantee I won't be involved in a car accident for the rest of my life.

I can't make the same bet about motorbikes yet, still learning new tricks at the moment.

But seriously. I have no idea how to crash a car.

I thought that too.... I was wrong twice...
There are plenty of people out there who will help you learn how to crash... usually at the most inconvenient time in your life to be without a set of wheels...
Glad I was insured both times the reaper slung his scythe my way....

[R650R]

Actually Haydens comment has just reminded me of something good a traffic cop did in our school days.
Joker came to our primary school and made about 1 in 5 of us I think stand up.
Said this is how many of us would be in serious or fatal crash at some stage in life. Another cop did same thing at high school, both of them were right....

One chap put himself underneath a car while another tried to beat a train... another DUI crashed outside my house and got the bash from the mobsters he drove into... who knows the tally in the years since those early days, lose touch with people etc...

But those cops had it right, sombre and simple, but the message is quickly forgotten in the day to day humdrum of life....

[Big Dog]

I was giving an educational presentation at a workplace last week. It's one of a series of presentations for groups of tradies, and I was asked to come and give them 5 to 10 min on the new drink drive levels.

I had a chat to the health and safety folk at each site, and we came to much the same conclusion.

People here generally think that those bad things won't happen to them. For that reason, they see no reason to change their behaviour.

The big issue is that generally, they are right. Like, an electrician will probably go through his career with a few small shocks, but he'll avoid the one that could kill him. It won't happen to him, so he's as careful as he thinks he needs to be.

Unfortunately, some sparky somewhere will be killed by electricity due to some gap in their work practise. Some forestry worker will die, but if you had asked him 10 minutes earlier, he'd likely have told you that it won't happen to him.

Similarly, if I attend a crash, and say to any of the parties involved "Were you expecting that to happen?" they will always say no. Always. That same person, if I had spoken to them ten minutes before the crash, wouldn't have expected the crash, so where is their incentive to change the way they drive?

It's the It Wont Happen To Me syndrome. I don't know if it's an international thing, but it's sure alive and well in NZ.

It's why a lot of people don't connect with those road safety messages that get broadcast. It won't happen to them, so why would they have the change their driving.

Just putting it out there.

I have always believed my final moments will involve a petrol tanker.
I ain't suicidal but I ain't staying home either.
It will happen to me one day. Each day I do my best to make sure today is not the day.

Each time I have had an accident I have felt that something was not right for 1-30 minutes before hand that I just couldn't put my finger on.
Each time it turned out I was right I just lacked to the tools to understand or handle the situation.
After I learned there was a pattern emerging I looked back and tried to be brutally honest about what really happened and tried to analyse it as an unbiased 3rd party. I soon saw the warnings I had ignored or been ignorant to. I also worked on developing tools to handle similar situations in the future.

That was something I had always done with push bike accidents, sports accidents so why not driving / riding? Could it be that all the lessons fed into the hubris created by others telling me I was a great driver?

I think so.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Big Dog]

A young cop asked me once if I had known I was going to crash. His eyebrow climbed fair up into his hairline when I said yes. I just had no idea how, when or why. Otherwise I would not have crashed.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[caspernz]

Not every time. The other guy was talking about general speeding, eg a little 10-30k over the limit like many people do and in comparison I talk about those that run red lights like they do as normal driving in Auckland, and then the repeat drink drivers ( yes its dangerous and stupid) who don't crash every time they do it.
I was being sarcastic to a certain extent but a crash involves several factors to occur not just one.
BTW I'd expect a driver of your experience to look left and right even on green lights so he wont be under your bumper with good defensive driving. :)

To comment on that last element first, yes I drive very defensively, and yes I've taken evasive or preventative action on quite a few occasions. Kinda goes hand in hand with driving fuel tankers I have to admit. That Smiths driving system transfers to car and bike as well... But take an example of the bikers vs truck prang on the Harbour Bridge recently. Yes I have first hand info on this. Trucker is in lane 3 and from behind 3 bikers come roaring up and trip over each other. One ends up being partly run over. There are simply instances where no amount of defensive driving from one party is going to help the poor soul who is pushing his luck.

The issue I have with punitive speed enforcement is the perception that various other dangerous everyday practices seem to be overlooked, whether this perception is reality or not...take a guess. Say for example we take a poll amongst those of us who drive for a living, and get them to rate things like tailgating, texting or yapping on the phone, failing to keep left, inconsiderate merging, driving slow on the two lane and hoofing it on a passing lane...and speeding all of a sudden slides way down the list of things that cause accidents. Yes the faster we go the bigger the mess, not an argument at all.

The suggestion made to ban trucks from the fast lane, this may surprise you with me being a career trucker, I'd 100% support that. But on the proviso that we ban overtaking on the left and rigidly enforce the keep left rule. This nonsense of dawdlers sitting in the hammer lane doing 85 while there's two lanes to their left more suited to their pace...oh brother I wish I was back in Europe trucking along. Trucks overtaking trucks at a snails' pace on the motorway just beggars belief, the practice of "elephant racing" is banned in many European countries, and should be here as well.

On a personal level I have no issue at all with Police enforcing the law, they don't make the rules, their task is to enforce. So in a sense I feel the vitriol that is often directed at the Police in regard punitive speed enforcement is a little misguided, yet I understand where Joe Public is coming from, since the perception is that the focus is on speed at the exclusion of many other dodgy behaviour.

Wouldn't it be funny to have the Kodak cash cams capture tailgating for a week or so and issue infringements for failing to observe the 2 second rule? That's kinda what I'm seeing this month so far, convoys of cars doing barely 90 clicks, but less than a second apart. And yes truckers as a group are shocking for tailgating...

[R650R]

To comment on that last element first, yes I drive very defensively, and yes I've taken evasive or preventative action on quite a few occasions. Kinda goes hand in hand with driving fuel tankers I have to admit. That Smiths driving system transfers to car and bike as well... But take an example of the bikers vs truck prang on the Harbour Bridge recently. Yes I have first hand info on this. Trucker is in lane 3 and from behind 3 bikers come roaring up and trip over each other. One ends up being partly run over. There are simply instances where no amount of defensive driving from one party is going to help the poor soul who is pushing his luck.

The issue I have with punitive speed enforcement is the perception that various other dangerous everyday practices seem to be overlooked, whether this perception is reality or not...take a guess. Say for example we take a poll amongst those of us who drive for a living, and get them to rate things like tailgating, texting or yapping on the phone, failing to keep left, inconsiderate merging, driving slow on the two lane and hoofing it on a passing lane...and speeding all of a sudden slides way down the list of things that cause accidents. Yes the faster we go the bigger the mess, not an argument at all.

The suggestion made to ban trucks from the fast lane, this may surprise you with me being a career trucker, I'd 100% support that. But on the proviso that we ban overtaking on the left and rigidly enforce the keep left rule. This nonsense of dawdlers sitting in the hammer lane doing 85 while there's two lanes to their left more suited to their pace...oh brother I wish I was back in Europe trucking along. Trucks overtaking trucks at a snails' pace on the motorway just beggars belief, the practice of "elephant racing" is banned in many European countries, and should be here as well.

On a personal level I have no issue at all with Police enforcing the law, they don't make the rules, their task is to enforce. So in a sense I feel the vitriol that is often directed at the Police in regard punitive speed enforcement is a little misguided, yet I understand where Joe Public is coming from, since the perception is that the focus is on speed at the exclusion of many other dodgy behaviour.

Wouldn't it be funny to have the Kodak cash cams capture tailgating for a week or so and issue infringements for failing to observe the 2 second rule? That's kinda what I'm seeing this month so far, convoys of cars doing barely 90 clicks, but less than a second apart. And yes truckers as a group are shocking for tailgating...

Agree with most of that.
A poll amongst those that drive for a living is slightly flawed and will always be biased as most of that demographic will be in a constant state of denial. As acknowledging the real cause of accidents highlights ones own shortcomings to much. I'd propose that fatigue and failing to pay proper attention (this involves proactively being aware of other roadusers intentions) are the main causes of accidents, anything that happens is a bad decision originating from those two factors. Speed just amplifies how quick it happens and how big the mess is. But its pretty hard to rant about fatigue and inattention around the smoko room table when everyones eyeballs are on the floor amongst the spilled coffee....

I don't think NZ's motorways and driver are up to the standard of banning trucks from the fast lane. There's so many car drivers that aren't confidant and sit in the fast lane so they only have to worry about traffic on one side of them and do 80k that keeping trucks out of them is negligible benefit. That and banning passing on the left would be economic suicide for NZs economy. There's a huge productivity gain to be had from tactical lane changes in the Akld environment once you know the bottlenecks.

I've been hit hard twice from behind but have little overall concern for tailgating as an actual risk factor as both offenders hit me due to failing to pay attention, distance wasn't an issue.
I actually try and keep a 4 sec distance in car and bike so I can observe and gently roll off when other people dither and only close in when an overtake is on. In trucks I've found 6-7 offers the best for safety and fuel economy even following a driver you know as they will always do something different and its a good distance to initiate a close up and slingshot overtake up the hills.
NZ transport industry needs to get over its obsession that its evil to use the service brakes when needed (and that other fairy tale of only using the trailer brakes in an emergency :facepalm: ), reckon lot of guys have crashed or rolled as their to worried about the shame of their mate seeing the brake lights come on and having to admit they screwed up. When I went to the UK under no situation was it acceptable to use the gears to slow down approaching junctions. Aside from holding up the traffic flow the number crunchers their reckoned the time saving and brake servicing worked out cheaper than the extra fuel use and transmission wear. And when they take the sunvisors of their Volvos to save 1.5-2% fuel per year I guess they have done their maths.

No matter what mode of use, we're still very ambulance at the bottom of the cliff in NZ. It will be interesting to see when big brother GPS becomes widespread amongst cars and bikes if it reduces crashes as bad habits are hard to rid or just makes the mess investigation easier afterwards...

[Ulsterkiwi]

I was giving an educational presentation at a workplace last week. It's one of a series of presentations for groups of tradies, and I was asked to come and give them 5 to 10 min on the new drink drive levels.

I had a chat to the health and safety folk at each site, and we came to much the same conclusion.

People here generally think that those bad things won't happen to them. For that reason, they see no reason to change their behaviour.

The big issue is that generally, they are right. Like, an electrician will probably go through his career with a few small shocks, but he'll avoid the one that could kill him. It won't happen to him, so he's as careful as he thinks he needs to be.

Unfortunately, some sparky somewhere will be killed by electricity due to some gap in their work practise. Some forestry worker will die, but if you had asked him 10 minutes earlier, he'd likely have told you that it won't happen to him.

Similarly, if I attend a crash, and say to any of the parties involved "Were you expecting that to happen?" they will always say no. Always. That same person, if I had spoken to them ten minutes before the crash, wouldn't have expected the crash, so where is their incentive to change the way they drive?

It's the It Wont Happen To Me syndrome. I don't know if it's an international thing, but it's sure alive and well in NZ.

It's why a lot of people don't connect with those road safety messages that get broadcast. It won't happen to them, so why would they have the change their driving.

Just putting it out there.

I hear you
Have done this a fair bit but with respect to health promotion, particularly with men. Similar problem, most fellas think its someone else's problem. The idea of regular check ups and thinking ahead about how you treat your body is a totally foreign concept.
Me? get sick? nah mate, beersie every night, few smokes and a pie for breakfast, all good.

[Scuba_Steve]

It's why a lot of people don't connect with those road safety messages that get broadcast. It won't happen to them, so why would they have the change their driving.

Just putting it out there.

Could also be because the propaganda contains so much fallacy it's like the guy at the pub that tells you he did 240km/h from Auck to Wellington and made it down in 2hrs

Just saying

[scumdog]

I hear you
Have done this a fair bit but with respect to health promotion, particularly with men. Similar problem, most fellas think its someone else's problem. The idea of regular check ups and thinking ahead about how you treat your body is a totally foreign concept.
Me? get sick? nah mate, beersie every night, few smokes and a pie for breakfast, all good.

And when bad shit DOES happen to them?

It's always "Somebodye Elses Fault" (tm).:yes:

[buggerit]

There is a few on this website that have an attitude it wont happen to me, even if its due to someone else screwing up because in the past they have always had time to brake/swerve around the vehicle/obstacle in their way or coming at them.

And then there are others with observational skills so poor, and reaction times so slow, that they couldnt get out of the
way of the tide coming in:shit::eek::lol:

[IkieBikie]

There is a few on this website that have an attitude it wont happen to me, even if its due to someone else screwing up because in the past they have always had time to brake/swerve around the vehicle/obstacle in their way or coming at them.

Take the same blah blah blah from one thread to another and put your interpretation on it.

I read the other thread and what I got was

There is a few on this website that have an attitude that we should always be alert to someone else screwing up because you may possibly have time to brake/swerve around the vehicle/obstacle in their way or coming at them.

And I totally agree with them

[Akzle]

And then there are others with observational skills so poor, and reaction times so slow, that they couldnt get out of the
way of the tide coming in:shit::eek::lol:

lmfao!

+r, bjiafp.

[R650R]

And then there are others with observational skills so poor, and reaction times so slow, that they couldnt get out of the
way of the tide coming in:shit::eek::lol:

oohhhh I'm not going fishing with you, your jinxed now.....

Seriously the tides are much easier misjudged than a t junction....

[haydes55]

You have a better understanding than them by saying there is only a possible chance by swerving or braking you will avoid others screwing up.

They think there is nothing possible about it at all but it is certain they can avoid others screwups due to their experience avoiding them in the past. Others that screw up on the road due so at varying speeds/distances which is the message I was trying to get through to them and they have just been lucky so far.


Well nothing can just materialise in your path.

[Akzle]

Well nothing can just materialise in your path.

apparently: bricks.

[Akzle]

Well nothing can just materialise in your path.

apparently: bricks. (and very fast dogs :sweatdrop: )

[BigAl]

Well nothing can just materialise in your path.

Yes they can

306677

[R650R]

Young people these days are tired of the fake shock and awe ads, most know that the mainstream media is a bought and paid for sideshow, so why should they take note of tv ads clearly funded by a govt agency....
Russian Dashcams where its at, I connect with that stuff and it slows me down.... Its real and it happened to someone out there...
Maybe its time the govt gave up on the hearts and minds thing with road safety. Just look at the Americans, even with bombs and regime change they have trouble getting people to change their longly held beliefs.
The only thi9ng you can do is write off everyone who already has a license as a lost cause and just concentrate on the new learner drivers coming through. These new tests where everyone is crying that are too hard are just what we needed....

Check out how fast this all happened, don't know the road but looks like 100k zone???

Logging Truck Accident SH1, near Caltex Oakleigh, just south of Whangarei Logging truck had mechanical failure, heading South, crosses centre line in to bank and rolls. CCTV capture

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V286OZ5Ks6U

[Big Dog]

Check out how fast this all happened, don't know the road but looks like 100k zone???

Logging Truck Accident SH1, near Caltex Oakleigh, just south of Whangarei Logging truck had mechanical failure, heading South, crosses centre line in to bank and rolls. CCTV capture

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V286OZ5Ks6U

And that would be the small percentage that Cassina bangs in about. Braking alone would not save a rider if they were where the grey car was.

I can't say having never been in the situation exactly. I would like to think if there was no clear path to choose I would scrub off as much speed as I can before taking
My chances in that gravel lay away to the right. Maybe even go further off road if required.

I have had to do something similar once when I found a police car coming the other way in my lane around a blind corner. Lights no siren. Took the 'busa over the curb at a driveway point, across bare soil and back out into the lane.
I doubted I would make it but figured sliding into some gum trees would hurt less than a police car in pursuit. Pretty sure the driver got a fright. He slowed down, his siren went on and he sped back up.


Another time on the 'busa I was not so in the right and a set of lights came up rapidly behind me and I ducked into a gap in the traffic I was filtering past hoping the lights were not for me. They were not, but now I found the person behind me was not actually aware I had adopted his space and showed no indication he was slowing but the car in front was.
I elected to go left and gave the throttle a wee tickle crossed the curb went onto the soil. Softer than I thought the front tucked as soon as I let off the gas. So I got back on and aimed for a ridge in the soil hoping what I had read in Dirt Rider Downunder was true.

The 'busa tracked beautifully and the ridge spat me back out onto the road behind the fog line. Much more cautious after that.

You won't win every time and neither have I.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[haydes55]

Check out how fast this all happened, don't know the road but looks like 100k zone???



Logging Truck Accident SH1, near Caltex Oakleigh, just south of Whangarei Logging truck had mechanical failure, heading South, crosses centre line in to bank and rolls. CCTV capture



]


The video doesn't show much of the initiation of the crash. By the time the car started braking there were logs coming down the road.... I'd expect any alert rider would have started braking by the time the truck started to tip over, maybe even earlier. It's hard to not see a truck going through the median into your lane

[R650R]

The video doesn't show much of the initiation of the crash. By the time the car started braking there were logs coming down the road.... I'd expect any alert rider would have started braking by the time the truck started to tip over, maybe even earlier. It's hard to not see a truck going through the median into your lane

Your very much one of Rastus's classic it will never happen to me candidates. The thread is about speed tolerance.
I posted the vid as an example of you never know what will happen next. From when it goes into the ditch on left then crosses over looks pretty fast to me...

[caspernz]

The video doesn't show much of the initiation of the crash. By the time the car started braking there were logs coming down the road.... I'd expect any alert rider would have started braking by the time the truck started to tip over, maybe even earlier. It's hard to not see a truck going through the median into your lane


Your very much one of Rastus's classic it will never happen to me candidates. The thread is about speed tolerance.
I posted the vid as an example of you never know what will happen next. From when it goes into the ditch on left then crosses over looks pretty fast to me...

The road curves to the right for the car, so it's even possible that the initiation of the trucks' demise was beyond the car drivers' line of sight. Just because myself and Ray are both truckers isn't the reason I'd disagree with Haydes, the unforeseen is what catches you out when riding a little too swift for the conditions. Hate to say it, but I've seen a few drivers and riders arse up when going too fast for the conditions...

[scumdog]

apparently: bricks. (and very fast dogs :sweatdrop: )

And cop cars duing U-turns!:msn-wink:

[Swoop]

The suggestion made to ban trucks from the fast lane, this may surprise you with me being a career trucker, I'd 100% support that. But on the proviso that we ban overtaking on the left and rigidly enforce the keep left rule.

A silly question.
Is there some unwritten rule for trucks to always use the middle lane on motorways?
Around Auckland there is a massive amount of this happening. Very rarely do I see a truck in the left hand lane (of the three available).

[FJRider]

Is there some unwritten rule for trucks to always use the middle lane on motorways?


It's a convenience thing ... convenient for the drivers at the time ... as it avoids the slowest traffic in the left lane. And keeps the right (fast .. ???) lane free for faster traffic.


And ... totally legal.

[Gremlin]

A silly question.
Is there some unwritten rule for trucks to always use the middle lane on motorways?
Around Auckland there is a massive amount of this happening. Very rarely do I see a truck in the left hand lane (of the three available).
Pfft, seems to be increasing numbers using the right hand lane (ie, fast/overtaking lane)...

[caspernz]

A silly question.
Is there some unwritten rule for trucks to always use the middle lane on motorways?
Around Auckland there is a massive amount of this happening. Very rarely do I see a truck in the left hand lane (of the three available).

It's the safest approach during periods of high traffic volumes, well, until Kiwi drivers learn that little thing called merging :confused:

[haydes55]

Pfft, seems to be increasing numbers using the right hand lane (ie, fast/overtaking lane)...


No, the left hand lane is the fast/overtaking lane. The last 3 times I've been up in Auckland using the motorways, I sat in the slow lane doing 100km/h (+/- 40km/h) and barely had to change lanes to overtake everyone. The left lane had way less traffic.

[R650R]

A silly question.
Is there some unwritten rule for trucks to always use the middle lane on motorways?
Around Auckland there is a massive amount of this happening. Very rarely do I see a truck in the left hand lane (of the three available).

Rock up to any transport company in Auckland and say that, they'll be very happy for you to take a ride and see for yourself... Their actually doing the greater population a favour.
Merging like a zip wouldn't work to well if all the trucks were in the left lane and the tailback factor would start gridlocking the onramps behind them....
Are you another ex pat pom (there's so many of them on this site for some reason...) or a kiwi??? As the limit is 100k for cars on mway here and often not achieved due to traffic volumes and crap drivers there's virtually zero impact from trucks using the fast lane or even the middle lane.

[awayatc]

Rock up to any transport company in Auckland and say that, they'll be very happy for you to take a ride and see for yourself... Their actually doing the greater population a favour.
Merging like a zip wouldn't work to well if all the trucks were in the left lane and the tailback factor would start gridlocking the onramps behind them....
Are you another ex pat pom (there's so many of them on this site for some reason...) or a kiwi??? As the limit is 100k for cars on mway here and often not achieved due to traffic volumes and crap drivers there's virtually zero impact from trucks using the fast lane or even the middle lane.

Do you ever use the roads on anything other then a truck....?

Btw.... I am not a pom....

Plenty of police around to deal with speed limits,
not up to (truck) drivers to block all available lanes.
yes I often see one truck trying to pass another one going 0.02 kph faster .... thus blocking any sort of possible progress for anybody else on the road.
plenty of bad driving around,
including truck drivers...

[caspernz]

Do you ever use the roads on anything other then a truck....?

Btw.... I am not a pom....

Plenty of police around to deal with speed limits,
not up to (truck) drivers to block all available lanes.
yes I often see one truck trying to pass another one going 0.02 kph faster .... thus blocking any sort of possible progress for anybody else on the road.
plenty of bad driving around,
including truck drivers...

The stupidity of elephant racing (truck overtaking truck at 0.02 kph differential speed) should definitely become an offence. On a three lane stretch for that reason alone the right hand lane should be banned for trucks. Mind you, can we also get the nitwits doing 90-95 with nothing in front of them chucked out of the hammer lane? Our driving standards should be just about sweet by the time the oil runs out...

[Swoop]

No, the left hand lane is the fast/overtaking lane. The last 3 times I've been up in Auckland using the motorways, I sat in the slow lane doing 100km/h (+/- 40km/h) and barely had to change lanes to overtake everyone. The left lane had way less traffic.
That's precisely what I see, regularly. Quite happy about it as well...:shifty:


Merging like a zip wouldn't work to well if all the trucks were in the left lane and the tailback factor would start gridlocking the onramps behind them....
Are you another ex pat pom (there's so many of them on this site for some reason...) or a kiwi???
OK. So the trucks are simply avoiding the feeder lanes on the left.
That still allows a nice, free running LH lane (as per above).
"ex-pat pom"? no.

[R650R]

Do you ever use the roads on anything other then a truck....?



Yes and more often than not something else in recent years. I just get a bit bent by people talking about stuff they don't fully comprehend.
Especially where I am we have a chronic acute outbreak of nimbyism sponsored by the local council. Despite the fact our beach is often called one of the ugliest stone ridden weed piles in NZ they want to detour trucks extra miles of the most direct route that's been in use for years and favour rail despite it cutting the cities arterial routes in half at 3 major busy locations.

A truck would much rather be in the left lane on the motorway as it reduces the risk exposure for a collision. The problem is NZ motorways aren't really motorways by international standards as there are two many onramps and off ramps too close together. In England miss your offramp and it might be an hours drive to turn around at the next one! do same in NZ and plenty of options.

[haydes55]

Here's a little something from a few years back.

"According to the latest WHO data published in April 2011 Road Traffic Accidents Deaths in New Zealand reached 440 or 1.80% of total deaths. The age adjusted Death Rate is 10.31 per 100,000 of population ranks New Zealand #137 in the world. Review other causes of death by clicking the links below or choose the full health profile."

Italy is #150 with a score of 8.4 per 100,000. Italians aren't known for being polite drivers either.

Germany, with its autobahns and more generous speed limits, #170 with a score of 5.7/100,000.

So NZ is doing pretty shit on the world stage (for western countries who have money for personal cars and sealed road networks). Countries raising their speed limits are having fewer road deaths than NZ per capita.

That's why I think the speed limit infatuation is pure horse shit. I don't want to die, I know when I die, there is no afterlife, I know in a road accident I'd likely be in excruciating pain for hours before my world ceases to be.... I want to live for as long as possible. I will never ride or drive in an unsafe manner that would risk my life being cut short, and I feel perfectly safe going 120km/h around a 65k corner.

I feel like I've written a pretty one sided half ass essay, so I better do a conclusion.....

In conclusion, suck a fat cock coppers, catch me if you can.

[BlackSheepLogic]

That's why I think the speed limit infatuation is pure horse shit

Driving though a "90Km/h Safer Speed Zone - Old State Hwy 20" when I went to pick up my cat from Quarantine. Fucker in front of me doing under 100K according to my GPS saw a police car coming in the opposing direction and slammed the anchors on really hard.

The current maniacal focus on speed is not making the roads safer.

[rastuscat]

Here's a little something from a few years back.

"According to the latest WHO data published in April 2011 Road Traffic Accidents Deaths in New Zealand reached 440 or 1.80% of total deaths. The age adjusted Death Rate is 10.31 per 100,000 of population ranks New Zealand #137 in the world. Review other causes of death by clicking the links below or choose the full health profile."

Italy is #150 with a score of 8.4 per 100,000. Italians aren't known for being polite drivers either.

Germany, with its autobahns and more generous speed limits, #170 with a score of 5.7/100,000.

So NZ is doing pretty shit on the world stage (for western countries who have money for personal cars and sealed road networks). Countries raising their speed limits are having fewer road deaths than NZ per capita.

That's why I think the speed limit infatuation is pure horse shit. I don't want to die, I know when I die, there is no afterlife, I know in a road accident I'd likely be in excruciating pain for hours before my world ceases to be.... I want to live for as long as possible. I will never ride or drive in an unsafe manner that would risk my life being cut short, and I feel perfectly safe going 120km/h around a 65k corner.

I feel like I've written a pretty one sided half ass essay, so I better do a conclusion.....

In conclusion, suck a fat cock coppers, catch me if you can.

Kind offer, think I'll pass though.

Interesting that you should choose to select countries with very broad taxpayer bases. Such countries can afford to build far better roads, where it is far less like likely to result in crashes.

Also interesting is that the Italian article points out that speed causes a small proportion of crashes. It's the same here. But in every crash, regardless of cause, greater speed means greater damage.

Keep the bollocks flowing though.

[blue rider]

Kind offer, think I'll pass though.

Interesting that you should choose to select countries with very broad taxpayer bases. Such countries can afford to build far better roads, where it is far less like likely to result in crashes.

Also interesting is that the Italian article points out that speed causes a small proportion of crashes. It's the same here. But in every crash, regardless of cause, greater speed means greater damage.

Keep the bollocks flowing though.



unless like my neighbour fuckwit who goes for rides with his kids in shorts, singlet, and no helmet or shoes. both of them.

But hey , the coppers don't patrol communities any-more, they only come around when the dairy has been robbed or the kid has been run over, fallen of the bike. All you guys seem to do is hang out on motorways to catch those evil doers going 1.5 km over a hundred. So in short, you don't catch those that are true fuckwits. You just get to harass those that drive slow enough for you to catch.

[rastuscat]

unless like my neighbour fuckwit who goes for rides with his kids in shorts, singlet, and no helmet or shoes. both of them.

But hey , the coppers don't patrol communities any-more, they only come around when the dairy has been robbed or the kid has been run over, fallen of the bike. All you guys seem to do is hang out on motorways to catch those evil doers going 1.5 km over a hundred. So in short, you don't catch those that are true fuckwits. You just get to harass those that drive slow enough for you to catch.

Always interesting to hear the views of those who have no idea what they are talking about.

[R650R]

Here's a little something from a few years back.

"According to the latest WHO data published in April 2011 Road Traffic Accidents Deaths in New Zealand reached 440 or 1.80% of total deaths. The age adjusted Death Rate is 10.31 per 100,000 of population ranks New Zealand #137 in the world. Review other causes of death by clicking the links below or choose the full health profile."

Italy is #150 with a score of 8.4 per 100,000. Italians aren't known for being polite drivers either.

Germany, with its autobahns and more generous speed limits, #170 with a score of 5.7/100,000.

So NZ is doing pretty shit on the world stage (for western countries who have money for personal cars and sealed road networks). Countries raising their speed limits are having fewer road deaths than NZ per capita.

That's why I think the speed limit infatuation is pure horse shit. I don't want to die, I know when I die, there is no afterlife, I know in a road accident I'd likely be in excruciating pain for hours before my world ceases to be.... I want to live for as long as possible. I will never ride or drive in an unsafe manner that would risk my life being cut short, and I feel perfectly safe going 120km/h around a 65k corner.

I feel like I've written a pretty one sided half ass essay, so I better do a conclusion.....

In conclusion, suck a fat cock coppers, catch me if you can.

I think comparing NZ to other countries is a lost cause, so many factors , better education/IQ, better cars, more traffic jams (pretty hard to die in traffic) and with super cheap air travel famil;ies more likely to fly than do long tiring trip in car....

One of my closest brushes with death was... cruising at 118k on GSXR back from day watching races at Manfield, slowly catching up to muddy ute that had pulled out of side road. Not sure if he didn't indicate or if I couldn't see them, but as I overtake he turns right into his driveway.
Que full emergency braking staring at his front quarter panel, terrible feeling knowing your going to hit. Then I think screw it fence is better than side of ute and steer just in front of him, jumping driveway hump and grass tracking along the berm at about 70k (thank god the grass was dry).... I hate doing what ifs and I was already breaking the law albeit in a more laxly enforced time, but a few k more and I wouldn't have missed the front of him...
One shouldn't poke the reaper, karma is a bitch...

[R650R]

Always interesting to hear the views of those who have no idea what they are talking about.

He must live in one of those gated communities.... move to a high crime suburb like mine. We see them so much I think they must get paid per km like the taxis, they always leave with a grumpy looking new passenger or two :)

[haydes55]

Kind offer, think I'll pass though.



Interesting that you should choose to select countries with very broad taxpayer bases. Such countries can afford to build far better roads, where it is far less like likely to result in crashes.



Also interesting is that the Italian article points out that speed causes a small proportion of crashes. It's the same here. But in every crash, regardless of cause, greater speed means greater damage.



Keep the bollocks flowing though.


Why don't the govt invest wiser in roading networks then? As an example, recently the road east out of whatawhata was ripped up entirely and resealed. I rode over the road before the roadworks, the road had 1 small pothole, on a straight, just out of the 80km/h zone, the rest of the road was fine. They ripped up about 6-700m of road and spent a few weeks doing it.

Another waste of taxpayer money on roads, this happens everywhere. Resealing small patches around corners, leaving gravel on them, and the height difference between the road, and the newly laid surface is actually greater than the pot holes it replaces. Patch jobs are more dangerous than the pot holes they cover.

Save the money and leave the pot holes, don't reseal straight roads with no lack of grip or pot holes. Councils are pissing away millions if dollars every year on making roads more dangerous, or making no difference at all to the grip/safety of corners.

Another corner of interest, whangarata road coming into pokeno is a corner that is shiny black (just bare tar) they have patched half of the corner. So the inside of the lane is zero grip shiny and dangerous, the outside of the corner is an inch lower that the shiny shit and has loose gravel on it. In the rain I go through the corner basically crawling, 9/10 times a tire will slide under me.

[Scuba_Steve]

Also interesting is that the Italian article points out that speed causes a small proportion of crashes. It's the same here. But in every crash, regardless of cause, greater speed means greater damage.

Keep the bollocks flowing though.

And again reduce the number of crashes & there is no damage to be greater

You do understand that your views on the speed scam are the same ones that are gonna be used to ban bikes don't you? after all every crash, regardless of cause, are safer in a car

[R650R]

Why don't the govt invest wiser in roading networks then? As an example, recently the road east out of whatawhata was ripped up entirely and resealed. I rode over the road before the roadworks, the road had 1 small pothole, on a straight, just out of the 80km/h zone, the rest of the road was fine. They ripped up about 6-700m of road and spent a few weeks doing it.

Another waste of taxpayer money on roads, this happens everywhere. Resealing small patches around corners, leaving gravel on them, and the height difference between the road, and the newly laid surface is actually greater than the pot holes it replaces. Patch jobs are more dangerous than the pot holes they cover.


Have you ever hit a pothole???? No cause mostly they fix them before you get there, believe me you wouldn't want to hit one on a bike.... We're barely above third world status economically, we cant afford to have racetrack quality tarmac everywhere. There's many of us here old enough to remember that a lot of our major highways still had gravel sections not too long ago....

[Tazz]

Kind offer, think I'll pass though.

Interesting that you should choose to select countries with very broad taxpayer bases. Such countries can afford to build far better roads, where it is far less like likely to result in crashes.

Also interesting is that the Italian article points out that speed causes a small proportion of crashes. It's the same here. But in every crash, regardless of cause, greater speed means greater damage.

Keep the bollocks flowing though.

So what would you do if the limit was lowered to 20, max, everywhere...? Work to lower it to 1?You're just a cog in the bureaucratic wheel, no matter how good your intentions are.

[haydes55]

I think comparing NZ to other countries is a lost cause, so many factors , better education/IQ, better cars, more traffic jams (pretty hard to die in traffic) and with super cheap air travel families more likely to fly than do long tiring trip in car....

One of my closest brushes with death was... cruising at 118k on GSXR back from day watching races at Manfield, slowly catching up to muddy ute that had pulled out of side road. Not sure if he didn't indicate or if I couldn't see them, but as I overtake he turns right into his driveway.
Que full emergency braking staring at his front quarter panel, terrible feeling knowing your going to hit. Then I think screw it fence is better than side of ute and steer just in front of him, jumping driveway hump and grass tracking along the berm at about 70k (thank god the grass was dry).... I hate doing what ifs and I was already breaking the law albeit in a more laxly enforced time, but a few k more and I wouldn't have missed the front of him...
One shouldn't poke the reaper, karma is a bitch...

So basically, you were travelling 18km/h over the speed limit, a potential crash was unfolding, and even at your "unsafe" speed, you avoided the crash.....

A few more K's and you would have cleared the ute before he turned into the driveway, a bit slower and he could have started turning when you were beside him, so side swiping you. Faster or slower might have made that incident less dangerous, or more dangerous, its near impossible to tell. personally I wouldn't want to overtake a slowing down vehicle when there's a driveway there, regardless of indication. So speed wouldn't cause or increase danger of an accident if you avoided the situation in the first place. It sounds like you were fatigued from a long day.... not speed related at all, Fatigue related making a bad call. Well done for recovering it though.

[BlackSheepLogic]

So what would you do if the limit was lowered to 20, max, everywhere...? Work to lower it to 1?Y

I agree generally with the focus on accident severity and that a lower impact speed the better the outcome. Much better than the old focus of speed being a primary factor in causing an accident. Around town and in lower speed zones this makes sense.

But, at 80Km/h and above I question how much of a difference it makes especially for a rider. I don't find it credible that the outcome is measurably worse at 110Km/h vrs 100Km/h.

[Scuba_Steve]

But, at 80Km/h and above I question how much of a difference it makes especially for a rider. I don't find it credible that the outcome is measurably worse at 110Km/h vrs 100Km/h.

Anything over 60km/h makes the whole speed scam redundant as anything over that humans are in "luck" territory, we're just using vehicle safety devices to keep us alive the speed is mostly irrelevant
Also if speed is such the big problem, people really need to disable their airbags, those things come out at 320km/h

[Asher]

Im not going to bother to read this entire thread so im not sure if this has been asked before.

Why cant we accept deaths on the road?
Im not saying we shouldnt take practical steps to mitigate the road toll but shouldnt we all just agree that when people participate in a inherently dangerous activity that deaths will occur.

Also, an interesting fact. More people commit suicide in NZ than die on our roads and when you look at the effort to lower the suicide rate vrs the road toll its actually rather pathetic on the governments behalf.

[Tazz]

I agree generally with the focus on accident severity and that a lower impact speed the better the outcome. Much better than the old focus of speed being a primary factor in causing an accident. Around town and in lower speed zones this makes sense.

But, at 80Km/h and above I question how much of a difference it makes especially for a rider. I don't find it credible that the outcome is measurably worse at 110Km/h vrs 100Km/h.

I wouldn't argue with that. I am more vigilant about my speed in lower areas, always a lot more going on around the place.
One of my pet hates are drivers that cruise 80-90, then when they hit a 50 or 60 they carry on at 70+ or the same speed :crazy:


306953

[haydes55]

I wouldn't argue with that. I am more vigilant about my speed in lower areas, always a lot more going on around the place.


One of my pet hates are drivers that cruise 80-90, then when they hit a 50 or 60 they carry on at 70+ or the same speed :crazy:




]



Islanders in people movers..... They know one speed and one speed only. Fucking difficult to overtake in a van, by the time I catch them, we get to a town, I cruise through, they disappear. Get to 100km/h zone, I catch up, before I can pass, another town.

[Scuba_Steve]

Im not going to bother to read this entire thread so im not sure if this has been asked before.

Why cant we accept deaths on the road?
Im not saying we shouldnt take practical steps to mitigate the road toll but shouldnt we all just agree that when people participate in a inherently dangerous activity that deaths will occur.

Also, an interesting fact. More people commit suicide in NZ than die on our roads and when you look at the effort to lower the suicide rate vrs the road toll its actually rather pathetic on the governments behalf.

Because, hows that supposed to make $$$...
But you're right and the suicide rates are something Govt are responsible for* as usually the less happy a country is with Govt the higher the suicide rate

*based on trends, not controlled study as they tend to be a bit hard with this sorta thing

[Big Dog]

I have heard it said that in Christian countries one third of all suicides occur within the six weeks generally accepted as the Christmas period.

If that is the case by allowing Christmas to continue is the govt not at fault?
Should TPTB be putting their time into banning Christmas instead?

Or does Christmas fall into the acceptable risk bucket?

Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[rastuscat]

Also, an interesting fact. More people commit suicide in NZ than die on our roads and when you look at the effort to lower the suicide rate vrs the road toll its actually rather pathetic on the governments behalf.

On that basis, we should also stop chasing murderers, as they only cause 40 to 60 victims per year.

Just sayin.

[rastuscat]

Just sayin.

If you want a thread to thrive, put the word "Speed" in the title.

It's such a contentious issue.

[willytheekid]

Just sayin.

If you want a thread to thrive, put the word "Speed" in the title.

It's such a contentious issue.

:clap:

...WHAT DID WE WIN?? :eek: (fingers crossed for a year of legal wheelies:laugh:...joking...just joking:o :D)

306954



unstuck made me do it

[buggerit]

I think comparing NZ to other countries is a lost cause, so many factors , better education/IQ, better cars, more traffic jams (pretty hard to die in traffic) and with super cheap air travel famil;ies more likely to fly than do long tiring trip in car....

One of my closest brushes with death was... cruising at 118k on GSXR back from day watching races at Manfield, slowly catching up to muddy ute that had pulled out of side road. Not sure if he didn't indicate or if I couldn't see them, but as I overtake he turns right into his driveway.
Que full emergency braking staring at his front quarter panel, terrible feeling knowing your going to hit. Then I think screw it fence is better than side of ute and steer just in front of him, jumping driveway hump and grass tracking along the berm at about 70k (thank god the grass was dry).... I hate doing what ifs and I was already breaking the law albeit in a more laxly enforced time, but a few k more and I wouldn't have missed the front of him...
One shouldn't poke the reaper, karma is a bitch...

Utes pulling out of side roads quite often arent going very far, being covered in shit is even more of a clue, dawdling is another,
I never pass them anywhere near a gate or driveway.

[schrodingers cat]

Congratulations to the NZ Police.
The unofficial speed limit on open roads seems to now be about 80km/h

We now know all speedos read high

We've been sold the idea that speed is the single biggest killer on NZ roads

We've been told the 'Focussing on Speed' reduces road fatalities (sometimes it looks like it, other times not)

Exceeding 100kph means that your speedo is likely reading MUCH HIGHER and therefore travelling at legal NZ open road speeds makes you a selfish potential murderer and psychopath

The result is most retarded bumfucks on out road live in fear and travel at an indicated 90 - 92 kph - just in case. They won't pass any of the trucks and morons in camper vans that clog our roads and so the whole clusterfuck dawdles along at 80kmh at best

Will they pull over? Will they fuck! They have virtue and the law on their side

And at the end of the day its probably for the best since our roads and driver education system are so shitty. Driving slow gives the morons time to react.

So good work NZ Government(s) Pocket the money from the various road related taxes, don't spend it and allow the police to return a sizable chunk of cashflow through secondary forms of taxation (fines etc)

Merry fucking ho ho ho

[rastuscat]

Congratulations to the NZ Police.
The unofficial speed limit on open roads seems to now be about 80km/h

We now know all speedos read high

We've been sold the idea that speed is the single biggest killer on NZ roads

We've been told the 'Focussing on Speed' reduces road fatalities (sometimes it looks like it, other times not)

Exceeding 100kph means that your speedo is likely reading MUCH HIGHER and therefore travelling at legal NZ open road speeds makes you a selfish potential murderer and psychopath

The result is most retarded bumfucks on out road live in fear and travel at an indicated 90 - 92 kph - just in case. They won't pass any of the trucks and morons in camper vans that clog our roads and so the whole clusterfuck dawdles along at 80kmh at best

Will they pull over? Will they fuck! They have virtue and the law on their side

And at the end of the day its probably for the best since our roads and driver education system are so shitty. Driving slow gives the morons time to react.

So good work NZ Government(s) Pocket the money from the various road related taxes, don't spend it and allow the police to return a sizable chunk of cashflow through secondary forms of taxation (fines etc)

Merry fucking ho ho ho

Sorry, I let the team down today.

I focussed on cellphones, seatbelts, traffic lights and stop signs.

I'm pretty sure all the people I dealt with would have preferred me to be looking for speed, but that's human nature.

[TheDemonLord]

I agree generally with the focus on accident severity and that a lower impact speed the better the outcome. Much better than the old focus of speed being a primary factor in causing an accident. Around town and in lower speed zones this makes sense.

But, at 80Km/h and above I question how much of a difference it makes especially for a rider. I don't find it credible that the outcome is measurably worse at 110Km/h vrs 100Km/h.

E=1/2mv2

So the energy of a moving object is equal to half of its mass, times its velocity Squared.

So for a 1000 kg object travelling at 27.7 m/s (100 kph) the energy is: 383645 joules
If we now go to 110 kph (30.5 m/s) the energy is: 465125 joules

So yes, a small increase in speed (because the velocity is Squared) does make a difference (5th form physics anyone?) - but the key factor in any crash is how the energy is dissipated and the time over which the deceleration occurs (again, 5th form physics)

[rastuscat]

E=1/2mv2

So the energy of a moving object is equal to half of its mass, times its velocity Squared.

So for a 1000 kg object travelling at 27.7 m/s (100 kph) the energy is: 383645 joules
If we now go to 110 kph (30.5 m/s) the energy is: 465125 joules

So yes, a small increase in speed (because the velocity is Squared) does make a difference (5th form physics anyone?) - but the key factor in any crash is how the energy is dissipated and the time over which the deceleration occurs (again, 5th form physics)

You've fallen into the old trap of believing facts.

Come on, this is KB.

[TheDemonLord]

You've fallen into the old trap of believing facts.

Come on, this is KB.

Heh, Sarcasm aside - it is surprising how many people can't remember basic 5th form Physics

[haydes55]

E=1/2mv2



So the energy of a moving object is equal to half of its mass, times its velocity Squared.



So for a 1000 kg object travelling at 27.7 m/s (100 kph) the energy is: 383645 joules

If we now go to 110 kph (30.5 m/s) the energy is: 465125 joules



So yes, a small increase in speed (because the velocity is Squared) does make a difference (5th form physics anyone?) - but the key factor in any crash is how the energy is dissipated and the time over which the deceleration occurs (again, 5th form physics)


Energy from not crashing in the first place? Sweet fuck all.

[TheDemonLord]

Energy from not crashing in the first place? Sweet fuck all.

That's not how kinetic energy works.............

[Kickaha]

I have heard it said that in Christian countries one third of all suicides occur within the six weeks generally accepted as the Christmas period.

I saw a study two days ago which said that was crap, apparently springtime is the most common time

[rastuscat]

Energy from not crashing in the first place? Sweet fuck all.

Okay, here's a plan. The day after crashes stop happening forever I'll start campaigning to lift all speed limits.

Somehow I can't see my campaign happening any time soon.

Funny, I spend lots of time defending speed enforcement but bugger all time actually doing it. I spend most of my patrol time looking for seatbelts, cellphones, and cases of DLAW.

Driving Like A W***ker.

[BlackSheepLogic]

So yes, a small increase in speed (because the velocity is Squared) does make a difference (5th form physics anyone?) - but the key factor in any crash is how the energy is dissipated and the time over which the deceleration occurs (again, 5th form physics)

Congratulations for remembering 5th form physics. Now factor in survivability of those injuries at 100Km/h vrs 110Km/h. You think I'm any more likely to walk away from the 100Km/h accident than the 110Km/h? What matters at those speeds is how I'm impacted not a few clicks either way.

[BlackSheepLogic]

You've fallen into the old trap of believing facts.
Come on, this is KB.

Yea Rastuscat, lets not factor in the real world outcome to a rider.

[TheDemonLord]

Congratulations for remembering 5th form physics. Now factor in survivability of those injuries at 100Km/h vrs 110Km/h. You think I'm any more likely to walk away from the 100Km/h accident than the 110Km/h? What matters at those speeds is how I'm impacted not a few clicks either way.

Okay.

What determines how you are impacted?

Its the time over which the deceleration occurred (ie did you experience a fatal number of Gs) AND it is how the energy was dissipated. Higher initial energy means that more energy has to be dissipated.

For example (and I am using arbitrary numbers here to prove a point)

Suppose that 500 joules of energy goes gets dissipated by bruising and moderate injuries. Now factor in the 20% extra energy we now have to dissipate by going 10 kph faster - we now have to dissipate 600 joules - which results in broken bones and internal bleeding.

Thats if we go solely down the energy route.

If we do deceleration -

going from 100 kph to 0 in 0.3 seconds gives around 9 G of deceleration, going from 110 kph to 0 in 0.3 seconds is closer to 10 G

For reference - the average G force experianced by a car crashing at 50 kph to 0 is about 15 G - this gives a time elapsed of around 0.08 seconds for a crash

(source is here: http://outreach.phas.ubc.ca/phys420/p420_96/danny/info.htm)

if we use 0.08 as the time elapsed for our crash we get 34 G for a crash at 100 kph and 37 G

For reference - Fatal and serious injuries can occur above 25 G, although the human body can withstand peak G forces higher than this for very short periods of time (nanoseconds)

TL;DR - Learn some 5th form Physics - it tells you all about why death is more likely at 110 kph than 100 kph

[buggerit]

Okay.

What determines how you are impacted?

Its the time over which the deceleration occurred (ie did you experience a fatal number of Gs) AND it is how the energy was dissipated. Higher initial energy means that more energy has to be dissipated.

For example (and I am using arbitrary numbers here to prove a point)

Suppose that 500 joules of energy goes gets dissipated by bruising and moderate injuries. Now factor in the 20% extra energy we now have to dissipate by going 10 kph faster - we now have to dissipate 600 joules - which results in broken bones and internal bleeding.

Thats if we go solely down the energy route.

If we do deceleration -

going from 100 kph to 0 in 0.3 seconds gives around 9 G of deceleration, going from 110 kph to 0 in 0.3 seconds is closer to 10 G

For reference - the average G force experianced by a car crashing at 50 kph to 0 is about 15 G - this gives a time elapsed of around 0.08 seconds for a crash

(source is here: http://outreach.phas.ubc.ca/phys420/p420_96/danny/info.htm)

if we use 0.08 as the time elapsed for our crash we get 34 G for a crash at 100 kph and 37 G

For reference - Fatal and serious injuries can occur above 25 G, although the human body can withstand peak G forces higher than this for very short periods of time (nanoseconds)

TL;DR - Learn some 5th form Physics - it tells you all about why death is more likely at 110 kph than 100 kph

So going by those figures we are probably fucked at 100kmh anyway?

[BlackSheepLogic]

So going by those figures we are probably fucked at 100kmh anyway?

That was my point since like you I don't live in a text book.

[TheDemonLord]

So going by those figures we are probably fucked at 100kmh anyway?

It depends on the time the deceleration happened over - a head on collision for example happens over a shorter period than say a T-Bone

[TheDemonLord]

That was my point since like you I don't live in a text book.

You may not live in a Text book - but does that mean you are exempt from the laws of Physics?

No?

Thought so.

[BlackSheepLogic]

TL;DR - Learn some 5th form Physics - it tells you all about why death is more likely at 110 kph than 100 kph

Most of us don't live in text books with. At 100Km/h I hit anything head-on my chances of survival are very low as are my chances if I'm run over at 100Km/h. The critical factor is not the speed at that point but how the impact occurs (what I hit, how I hit it, and at what angle I hit it).

[rastuscat]

Most of us don't live in text books with. At 100Km/h I hit anything head-on my chances of survival are very low as are my chances if I'm run over at 100Km/h. The critical factor is not the speed at that point but how the impact occurs (what I hit, how I hit it, and at what angle I hit it).

Critical factor? Does that mean it's the only factor?

As soon as we can control how impacts occur, it'll make it a better bet than trying to regulate the impacts by reducing speed.

[haydes55]

You're presuming riders are hitting objects at 100km/h or 110km/h. A bike can brake pretty quick, usually faster than accelerating. If an accident is immanent, and 1 second away from impact, 1 second of braking could get 100km/h down to 70ish (presuming the first second is a bit slower because the brake lever is eased on. If a bike can accelerate to 100 in 3 seconds, it could most likely stop in 3 seconds from 100.

For more arguments, usually a motorcyclist will end up a fair distance away from a crash site, we aren't strapped to anything, where a car might have a deceleration time of 0.3 seconds a motorcyclist might have an spike decelerating half their energy in 0.3 seconds, then the other half dissipated over 2 seconds of sliding and rolly pollies.

So Mr. physics calculate the Gs of a rider going 150km/h braking for a second to 120km/h with an initial deceleration to 60km/h over 0.3 seconds then to 0 in 2 more seconds.

[schrodingers cat]

Energy from not crashing in the first place? Sweet fuck all.

Best insurance policy there is. Unfortunately the more hopeless the average road user becomes the risk of being caught up in someone else's horseshit is increasing

[schrodingers cat]

Sorry, I let the team down today.

I focussed on cellphones, seatbelts, traffic lights and stop signs.

I'm pretty sure all the people I dealt with would have preferred me to be looking for speed, but that's human nature.

Super that you did your job today

My point is, most of the time I can't even achieve the level speed limit much less exceed it.
I don't give a fuck what tolerance you enforce ( cruise control me) but seriously, the speed mantra isn't enough.

[scumdog]

Super that you did your job today

I don't give a fuck what tolerance you enforce ( cruise control me) but seriously, the speed mantra isn't enough.

We know that!

But scads of numpties on here think that the 'speed mantra' is the total focus...

[awayatc]

Unfortunately the cats needle seems to be stuck at the " if you reduce speed you reduce blah blah blah whatever....."
Even more unfortunate is that that cat is a cop.....
and lots more cops stuck in same groove.
just because you are a good guy, (and therefore most likely also a fair cop)
Doesnt mean all cops are ok..
police headshed have got their heads so far up their arses they believe a fart is a breath of fresh air.....
sorry scummy....police arent our friends and helpers anymore

[Scuba_Steve]

We know that!

But scads of numpties on here think that the 'speed mantra' is the total focus...

Maybee you have the propaganda machine & your gangs PR dept to thank for that

[haydes55]

We know that!



But scads of numpties on here think that the 'speed mantra' is the total focus...


Probably because I've never heard of or seen a driver pulled over or ticketed for anything not speed related (well I know a few ticketed for using a phone while driving and sustained loss of traction).

I've never seen the most dangerous of driving ever been attempted to be addressed. At the moment Hamilton have a road safety campaign that is a waste of advertising. "use your head, stop on red"...... Seriously, that's what they want to bring to the forefront of road users? Common sense, that I haven't seen anyone breach.... And I do a fuckload of driving around Hamilton.

I'd love to create a new job in the police force, the head of common sense policies. That would save millions of wasted dollars and lives. Have the position secret, so the commissioner can still be PC, but make every decision get the approval of someone with common sense.

[R650R]

Congratulations to the NZ Police.
The unofficial speed limit on open roads seems to now be about 80km/h

We now know all speedos read high

We've been sold the idea that speed is the single biggest killer on NZ roads

We've been told the 'Focussing on Speed' reduces road fatalities (sometimes it looks like it, other times not)

Exceeding 100kph means that your speedo is likely reading MUCH HIGHER and therefore travelling at legal NZ open road speeds makes you a selfish potential murderer and psychopath

The result is most retarded bumfucks on out road live in fear and travel at an indicated 90 - 92 kph - just in case. They won't pass any of the trucks and morons in camper vans that clog our roads and so the whole clusterfuck dawdles along at 80kmh at best

Will they pull over? Will they fuck! They have virtue and the law on their side

And at the end of the day its probably for the best since our roads and driver education system are so shitty. Driving slow gives the morons time to react.

So good work NZ Government(s) Pocket the money from the various road related taxes, don't spend it and allow the police to return a sizable chunk of cashflow through secondary forms of taxation (fines etc)

Merry fucking ho ho ho

None of that behaviour is new... the lemmings have been driving like that for at least the last ten years.... its worse in holiday periods but nothing to do with the cops.

If you carefully observe the species known as ditherus maximus you'll note they are going slow as they are paying no attention what so ever to what is happening outside the car....

[R650R]

Probably because I've never heard of or seen a driver pulled over or ticketed for anything not speed related (well I know a few ticketed for using a phone while driving and sustained loss of traction).

I've never seen the most dangerous of driving ever been attempted to be addressed.

I have... an oncoming driver going north out of Taurange on SH2 kept on coming round the traffic as the passing lane ended and across the yellow lines. He wasn't speeding, just driving stupid.
I took moderate evasive action and dipped my trailer wheels onto the well maintained but dusty shoulder to get the cops attention, he spun round pretty swift and nailed him.
Passing lane ended on a gentle left hand bend uphill.

[mossy1200]

You can see when riding the texters are back in force just doing it down low making it more dangerous.
The talkers are back also.

Focus lost and old habits returned.

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/aBRib_uTUNQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Now this would be fun

[Akzle]

txting while driving isnt dangerous.
Looking for cops while txting while driving is.


but make every decision get the approval of someone with common sense.

:laugh:
it'll never catch on!

[Big Dog]

I saw a study two days ago which said that was crap, apparently springtime is the most common time

Another day another study. Trouble with all these studies is no matter what your opinion someone has to piss on the bonfire.

I don't speak for any other Christians but I often suffer quite severe depression leading up to Christmas. Years where there is no financial pressure it goes away by New Years. Years with a bit of additional stress it hangs around till my birthday.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[rastuscat]

txting while driving isnt dangerous.
Looking for cops while txting while driving is.

So, all those people who have crashed their cars while texting were looking for cops?

Before it was illegal, people crashed while texting. That's why it was made illegal.

Um, is that a hole in your argument I just drove a truck through?

[DMNTD]

Sorry, I let the team down today.

I focussed on cellphones, seatbelts, traffic lights and stop signs.

Excellent, any chance your crew can carry on with those checks?
Scariest part of riding or driving down here are the red light runners and tail gating