Police getting tougher on speed tolerance [Archive] - Page 6

FJRider

5th January 2019, 20:49

There is no agenda in the statistics they are numbers.
The numbers tell a story you dont like so you ignore them.
My habits have always been risk adverse on the road treat all car drivers as if they havent seen you and you are not often surprised.
I need my licence for work so all my ego polishing is done on the dirt bike or a circuit.

That would depend on whomever it was that compiled those numbers. Look more closely at that in future ... and 14% of last years road deaths is not 14. REAL numbers gets peoples attention.

The stat's are people too. People that are now dead. Look closer at the stats ... and who/how and why the were compiled.

Look for what they didn't mention. And why ...

AllanB

5th January 2019, 20:50

so therefor the high rate of death did have an impact simply because these discussions were/are had because of those deaths.

if everything was cruising along without anything negative happening then these conversations would not be happening and you would not have deliberately changed your habits.

just a thought

Hmmm interesting, I see what you did there, and I can't say you are wrong. And the KB conversations were started due to death headlines in the media.

husaberg

5th January 2019, 20:51

That would depend on whomever it was that compiled those numbers. Look more closely at that in future ... and 14% of last years road deaths is not 14. REAL numbers gets peoples attention.

The stat's are people too. People that are now dead. Look closer at the stats ... and who/how and why the were compiled.

Look for what they didn't mention. And why ...

Only going by known and stated statistics in the usual places.

However ... what are the statistics on unreported accidents ... we know they happen ... :blank:

So we have Known statistics verse your vague opinion pulled out of your bottom.
I know which one will be shit.

FJRider

5th January 2019, 20:52

You didnt answer the question.

Now that depends how advanced your riding is.

When did you last do a course?

Neither did you ... and you changed the subject as well ... ;)

FJRider

5th January 2019, 20:59

So we have Known statistics verse your vague opinion pulled out of your bottom.
I know which one will be shit.

As I recall ... non injury accidents are required by law to be reported within seven days (injury accidents within 24 hours) ... did you report ALL yours .. on or off the road .. ???

Accidents cannot be recorded if they're not reported.

If not reported ... reported figures cannot be correct.

husaberg

5th January 2019, 21:02

As I recall ... non injury accidents are required by law to be reported within seven days (injury accidents within 24 hours) ... did you report ALL yours .. on or off the road .. ???

Accidents cannot be recorded if they're not reported.

If not reported ... reported figures cannot be correct.

if you bothered to read the stats you wouldn't be asking silly questions that are answered in the stats.
i wouldn't trust your memory a few posts ago you claimed to have read the report but then ask silly questions that are clearly covered in the reports content.

FJRider

5th January 2019, 21:07

if you bothered to read the stats you wouldn't be asking silly questions that are answered in the stats.

My apologies ... I missed the statistics on unreported accidents ... have you got a link ... ??

Swoop

5th January 2019, 21:37

Rear view mirrors are for pussies ... what is behind is NOT important.

Have you been watching old movies again? That line is from "the Gumball Rally".

husaberg

5th January 2019, 21:40

My apologies ... I missed the statistics on unreported accidents ... have you got a link ... ??

How about you dont read the report then ignore the contents and claim you know better based on shit you pulled out of your behind.
oh whoops thats what you did anyway.:laugh:
Its like katman has hacked your computer.

rastuscat

15th January 2019, 13:39

The years road toll is a very blunt instrument if you want a true picture of general road safety

A few figures from MOT govt site:

light motor vehicles on road.

2000 2.5 million
2010 3.1 million
2017 3.8 million

km travelled by light vehicle fleet

2000 3.6 billion
2010 4.0 billion
2017 4.8 billion

So comparing total years road toll without taking anything else into consideration makes no sense.
MOT figures show year on year less deaths per km driven but I spose thst doesn't sell newspapers
or provide the govt with a stick to beat the motorists with.

VKT matters. A lot.

rastuscat

15th January 2019, 13:44

As I recall ... non injury accidents are required by law to be reported within seven days (injury accidents within 24 hours) ... did you report ALL yours .. on or off the road .. ???

Accidents cannot be recorded if they're not reported.

If not reported ... reported figures cannot be correct.

Important point, that one.

As long as the figures are gathered consistently, it forms a trend. I.e. as long as 70% of crashes are reported each year the absolute number will either show an upward trend or downward trend.

The total number doesn't matter, as we will never gather 100%. It's the trends that matter.

FJRider

15th January 2019, 15:11

Important point, that one.

As long as the figures are gathered consistently, it forms a trend. I.e. as long as 70% of crashes are reported each year the absolute number will either show an upward trend or downward trend.

The total number doesn't matter, as we will never gather 100%. It's the trends that matter.

Thus ... nobody should ever claim statistics are accurate. Just (at best) ... might indicate a trend.

"Statistics Means Never Having to Say You're Certain."

I recall knowing of a cop in Wellington that crashed his own bike (duly reported). Took it to a Bike shop for repairs ... bike shop said "you're the sixth this week" ... NO others were reported ...

rastuscat

15th January 2019, 18:04

Thus ... nobody should ever claim statistics are accurate. Just (at best) ... might indicate a trend.

"Statistics Means Never Having to Say You're Certain."

I recall knowing of a cop in Wellington that crashed his own bike (duly reported). Took it to a Bike shop for repairs ... bike shop said "you're the sixth this week" ... NO others were reported ...

That's the biggest problem. How the stats are gathered is faulty, but it's all we have.

The problem is really when people quote the stats as absolute truth. I hear it most days at work. Especially elected officials who know bugger all but who love quoting stats at me. When I know better.

Berries

15th January 2019, 18:43

As I recall ... non injury accidents are required by law to be reported within seven days.
Nah. In fact TPTB would probably prefer it if you didn't bother. One sided self reported crashes are mostly useless, you'd only do it for insurance purposes.

The problem is really when people quote the stats as absolute truth. I hear it most days at work. Especially elected officials who know bugger all but who love quoting stats at me. When I know better.
38.5 percent of people would disagree.

FJRider

15th January 2019, 19:21

That's the biggest problem. How the stats are gathered is faulty, but it's all we have.

The problem is really when people quote the stats as absolute truth. I hear it most days at work. Especially elected officials who know bugger all but who love quoting stats at me. When I know better.

SLIGHT correction ... Really ... it's all "THEY" have ... and I have argued that stat's are stated to prove the required "point".

Who gathers the stat's ... and which stat's they use for their own agenda to prove their point ... is always interesting. Sometimes even amusing. Especially if the numbers don't even add up. The next bunch of stat's you get ... get the calculator out and see for yourself.

The reply from the believers in "facts" revealed in the statistics ... that "Numbers don't lie". You don't need to be a mathematician (or an accountant) to know ... used in the right (or wrong ??) context ... numbers indeed can and do lie ...

Murray

15th January 2019, 19:45

To claim insurance do you not have to give details of the accident? Maybe more information could be got here?

FJRider

15th January 2019, 19:50

Nah. In fact TPTB would probably prefer it if you didn't bother. One sided self reported crashes are mostly useless, you'd only do it for insurance purposes.

They would prefer that I didn't to make their stat's look more factual. The one's reported are usually the one's that can't drive away from the accident

38.5 percent of people would disagree.

So ... are stat's actually believable ... and most will state a margin of error. And that is a (highly ??) educated guess ...

FJRider

15th January 2019, 20:02

To claim insurance do you not have to give details of the accident? Maybe more information could be got here?

But in reality ... do the one's with no insurance ... (or) no WOF ... (or) no rego ... and (or) no drivers license want to hang around an accident site ... ??? Or ... want to report their road accident to officialdom ... ??? :whistle:

Especially if they can explain any injuries caused ... another way ... ;)

Berries

16th January 2019, 06:05

They would prefer that I didn't to make their stat's look more factual.
Nah, that's probably due to all the capitals, brackets, bolds, italics and full stops you can throw in to a sentence.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/WOdjCb4LwQY" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

FJRider

17th January 2019, 16:07

To claim insurance do you not have to give details of the accident? Maybe more information could be got here?

Aside from the privacy point of view with conditions/details of the policy's held by some vehicle owners ... a very large number of vehicles legally on the roads of NZ are uninsured.

Legislation already requires accidents to be reported. What needs to change ... the attitudes or the penalty's for not doing so ... ?? will the world end if no changes are made ... ??

Hoonicorn

5th April 2019, 16:09

OddDuck

5th April 2019, 18:23

When people are fined, does that stop them speeding again? I mean really, the disincentive was always there - don't speed or you may get a fine. When they get a fine, do they suddenly realise "hey this actually happens, I better drive safer from now on." or do they continue, maybe using apps that report speed cameras or radar detectors so they can still speed but avoid further fines.

TLDR; Does a fine stop re-offending.

Good question. I know for myself, it was an abstract thing until I did get pulled over and ticketed, and yes it did slow me down afterwards. I've gotten a lot better at finding ways to make riding fun at legal-ish speeds. That might be unusual. I've met any number of bikers who (at least outwardly) seemed to regard demerits as some sort of a game, and also a few who've had licenses suspended for 140+ fun. They haven't stopped, they've just got smarter about where they do it.

One young man in particular stood out: he had a problem with hooning and he knew it... 17 yo, 95 demerits, last done for wheelies up The Terrace... reckoned he just couldn't stop himself. Hugely engaging character and I really hope he's still with us and still riding. I only had the chance to chat with him the once.

I've got a radar detector on the 900SS and all it tells me is that country patrol cops are well aware of radar detectors... the radar's off until they've got you.

rastuscat

5th April 2019, 19:58

sidecar bob

10th April 2019, 07:40

The greatest deterrence lies in getting caught. The fine is incidental, and acts as a reinforcement.

They lost a bit of it with the move to electronic ticketing. Having an officer acting on behalf of the state handing you a ticket was quite a deterrent. Now they just post tickets out, so that opportunity is lost.

For most, law abiding citizens, being accused by a cop is quite mind focussing. Some folk couldnt care less, of course.

The points also mean a lot for those who get caught too often.

Yep.
Getting a proper good telling off for doing 112kmh by an adrenaline fuelled cop thats fresh off the back of doing 170kmh in heavy traffic to catch you was always a great source of deterrent for me.
You would think they would get used to it, but they were always pumped as fuck by the time they got the offender stopped.
I never liked how it sometimes got a bit personal & vindictive.
I was test riding a bike to buy a few years back & got pulled.
After carrying on like he was on meth, The cop handed me a decent ticket & turned to my wife & said "well he won't be buying it now will he"? She casually replied, "yeah, he seems to like it, so i think he will"
I prefer my tickets in the mail, its not nice dealing with people that clearly hate their jobs, regardless of what that job is.

Vinz0r

10th April 2019, 07:59

sidecar bob

10th April 2019, 08:46

I've only ever dealt with traffic cos who were kind and respectful, so maybe it's an attitude problem that's causing you to have issues when being pulled over. Or maybe you're just unlucky and each time you've been pulled over the cop had been having a bad day.

I've got the most chilled out " hey, you got me good" attitude if I get pulled up. Several of my mates are cops, so I barely notice the uniform.
Maybe it's my offhand casual attitude that winds them up, or maybe the adrenaline of the chase, but, no, I've never been rude or shitty about it.
I remarked to one cop with a laugh, as smoke poured from his front brakes, geez mate, those brakes have had a bit of a work out. He had pulled the thing up from at least 140k into a side road & stopped. I found it quite entertaining.

SaferRides

10th April 2019, 13:46

I've only ever dealt with traffic cos who were kind and respectful, so maybe it's an attitude problem that's causing you to have issues when being pulled over. Or maybe you're just unlucky and each time you've been pulled over the cop had been having a bad day.How did you manage that? Or maybe I've been unlucky, because I seem to get the idiots.

Most interesting is not once has there been any discussion about road safety.

Swoop

12th April 2019, 19:44

Yep. Getting a proper good telling off for doing 112kmh by an adrenaline fuelled cop thats fresh off the back of doing 170kmh in heavy traffic to catch you was always a great source of deterrent for me.
You would think they would get used to it, but they were always pumped as fuck by the time they got the offender stopped.
A mate (plod) openly admitted to the hypocrisy of giving a ticket to people who liked doing exactly what they enjoyed doing (driving cars at speed).
So much so that there was the "slowly count to ten" rule, where a pursuit was not started until there was a decent opportunity to chase (at speed) another car.

pritch

12th April 2019, 20:58

There was a thread here years ago where IIRC a King Country cop thought a young guy on a bike was speeding so, when he could, he did one of their trade mark U turns and gave chase. He had reached some completely illegal speed before he caught the kid so he gave him a ticket for that speed. I told the kid get a lawyer, he did, he got off.

Some cops are just fucking idiots. Probably about the same proportion as the rest of the population?

Temporary-Kiwi

12th April 2019, 22:27

I've had a few unauthorised races with the boys in blue over the years, on one occasion, I was caught later in the day after the event by police , I was taken to the station for an interview, while there, the copper who I had lost during the chase, stormed in, grabbed me by the throat
started cussing me out , then Said why didn't I stop!
I just ignored him, but he then went into another room to talk to another cop, I heard him saying he was chasing me at 130+kph in my dust cloud ( I was on a xr500, on gravel road) he would have been struggling just to stay on the road as the dust was excessive, and had I suddenly decided to stop , he most likely would have smashed straight into me, it only served to reinforce my already jaded opinion of the police, definitively convinced me that stopping during a chase was not an option in my best interests, I've had a good experience with a cop in regards to speeding offences, but that's 1 out of a dozen or so negative ones

Jeff Sichoe

17th April 2019, 09:43

NZ is a big place, why not just speed when there are no cops around?

We don't have mandatory GPS trackers... yet

I suspect within the next 5 years (if CoL win again) it will be illegal to register a bike without a GPS alert device, which can be polled for infractions at any point by any cop. Registered owner of bike will get the ticket and convictions.

russd7

18th April 2019, 08:48

200 metre straight black line and a bike through a fence, even at the speed claimed, if the rider had of hauled on the front anchor they would have scrubbed off enough speed to make it round that bend easily.
not a joke, but that rider was a very good example of someone who should have done a Ride forever course.

roogazza

18th April 2019, 10:54

Ocean1

18th April 2019, 16:10

.....Weren't the seventies wonderful ?

They still are...

Yokomama

18th April 2019, 17:02

Long hair, flares, thin lizzy... I was born in the wrong era.

rastuscat

7th May 2019, 07:19

Thank christ my riding days are nearing the end.....Weren't the seventies wonderful ,if we had only known how lucky we were ?

Yeah, wonderful. That's why we killed 843 people in 1973 on the roads.

When the population was 3 million, each family had 1 car, and motorbikes were plentiful.

Ocean1

7th May 2019, 07:43

Yeah, wonderful. That's why we killed 843 people in 1973 on the roads.

When the population was 3 million, each family had 1 car, and motorbikes were plentiful.

What, nothing at all to do with the fact that cars are engineered so that you're more than twice as likely to survive?

rastuscat

21st May 2019, 14:43

What, nothing at all to do with the fact that cars are engineered so that you're more than twice as likely to survive?

Roads have got better, vehicles have got better, even the licence system is turning out better riders.

roogazza

22nd May 2019, 06:52

Had two weeks up north Auck, Whangare last week. Sure enough at Ellerslie some clown jumped out of a van and died. 2 hrs of jammed traffic and chopper overhead.

I was surprised at the number of wire rope barriers knocked down and looking limp.Quite a few damaged cars on the side of the road wrapped in police tape as well. (over the week gradually being stripped).

Hadn't seen Auck for 35 years and have no want to see it again.

Nice to get back to the Horowhenua Monday and a ride .

Paul in NZ

22nd May 2019, 08:36

Police can get as tough as they want on speed but when one drugged up driver wipes out 7 people including his own kids what chance is there that we will ever start to see a decrease in the road toll.. I don't think this is an isolated case either...

We are seeing more 7 seater type vehicles as well and thus the number of injuries/deaths per accident increase...

I cant see much changing for some time

OddDuck

22nd May 2019, 18:24

FJRider

22nd May 2019, 19:20

+1. What's the percentage of stoned / drugged drivers, 5% or so?

Do you know the percentage of drunk drivers on the roads of NZ .. ?? Guess which of the vehicle operators on the road as you ride/drive anywhere are drunk or stoned. This is a fun game to play as you ride or drive anywhere.

Drugged drivers on the roads are nothing new. Just finding ways to catch them before they kill somebody is the intent. The methods used to test those suspected is improving.

But ... the "Professional" drunks and druggies know (and hope) most of the time they'll get away with it.

The anti drug driving ad's on tv are almost funny. until you realize ... that instead of hitting a street sign, they may hit you. Guess which one will laugh first.

pritch

23rd May 2019, 09:48

Do you know the percentage of drunk drivers on the roads of NZ .. ?? Guess which of the vehicle operators on the road as you ride/drive anywhere are drunk or stoned. This is a fun game to play as you ride or drive anywhere.

There'd have to be a lot less drunks on the road than previously. It used to be that occasionally you'd see one weaving all over the road, I haven't seen that in several decades. Nobody I know drinks and drives any more, some have a one beer limit, where people used to meet up over a beer now it's a more likely a coffee.

The jury is still out on the drug testing thing, we need more information, apparently the marijuana tests will show positive when the driver is no longer effected. That could be a worry for some.

The police would have to get off their arse to administer the test and that could be a problem. Too many cops seem to be stuck to the seat of their car. Yesterday I was behind a cop car as a guy shot through a red light at speed. It would seem that as far as the cop was concerned, it never happened.

Scubbo

23rd May 2019, 10:16

Nerylanw

1st July 2019, 12:47

They did it to avoid accidents on the road. Thumbs up for that!

Scuba_Steve

1st July 2019, 13:14

wife was driving from bombay motorway >> north yesterday, a bike was lane splitting up the slow traffic and a young dork in front of her was laughing his head off, he was swerving right and then left trying to take the biker out, bet he was high as a kite giggling all the way home -- wonder if the rider was someone on here? --- knuckle justice is the only justice that will ever be applied to the kid I reckon, police won't stop that (probably miles behind in the queue of cars..) and is there a fine for that? is it more than the maximum speeding fine you can get as its much more likley to result in death for the rider

Saw something similar in the Upper of the Hutts recently only this looked to be a single swerve from an old lady (which I'll also note was a queue skipper) only the blue popo was behind, saw it & told her to pull over & got the bike to pull over too. Don't know the outcome but can only hope/assume it was to the bikers favor as he was riding legally.

And yes there is a couple fines that could be applied to that, one even being the vague 'driving like a twat' which is worth 600$ at last check

R650R

28th August 2020, 15:59

Six years on we’ve gone full communist.

Police announced zero tolerance ALL YEAR long now.
I’m predicting a massive rise in police pursuits from high risk drivers. The ones who’ve racked up demerits and are one ticket away from losing it are now gonna be flooring it anytime they see a cop even look at them.
I can’t see how they can even be tasked with it when there is that much other higher risk blatant offending out there.
The people that do 90 scared they might get to close to 100 are now going to be doing 80 forcing impatient drivers into high risk overtaking.
To quote Hunter S Thompson “Kingdom of Fear”, where were you when the fun stopped?

Reckless

28th August 2020, 17:15

george formby

28th August 2020, 17:49

Zero Tolerence for all announced again lads, that'll mean everyone behind the 80k slowest car and no passing.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/122592414/zero-tolerance-on-speeding-drivers-all-year-round-as-cops-get-tough-on-motorists?fbclid=IwAR1TogLLEohpkkLhdP5t5PVwkLBAXrw PRT-ubcq_Nb4KhI2o0hvN7L_L6mM

Just read that myself.:facepalm:

No researchers in my neck of the woods.... Probably to far for a Nissan Leaf to travel.

At least on most bikes an efficient, safe, overtake is pretty easy. Slight consolation for the hours to be spent watching the speedo not the road.

BMWGSER

28th August 2020, 19:26

eldog

28th August 2020, 21:01

BMWST?

28th August 2020, 21:21

Intersections
my right
self importance

the basic road rules
common sense
give way
Courteous

the standard of all of these is falling dramatically.

and no we can’t chase, someone may get hurt.

there are definitely times and places for speed/overtaking
however most people can’t judge consequences.

there seems to be a whole subset of the population for whom driving is a complete inconvenience.I was following a lady today who i thought was texting or something.When we stopped at some traffic lights it became obvious she was eating something from a large china dinner plate

eldog

28th August 2020, 21:40

there seems to be a whole subset of the population for whom driving is a complete inconvenience.I was following a lady today who i thought was texting or something.When we stopped at some traffic lights it became obvious she was eating something from a large china dinner plate
:D

most I have seen don’t need or have an excuse for how they behave.:facepalm:

it has impacted on my riding, I try not to ride around town.

I’d rather drive.

pete376403

28th August 2020, 22:26

We have noticed more than the usual number of speed camera tickets coming in for the work vehicles - now they are for only 3 or 4 k over.

Petty, vindictive and no surprise "zero tolerance" was put put in place by a woman cop - seems they feel they have to go harder to prove they are equal. Try and get this sort of reaction when reporting a burglary or assault

I'd love to see civil disobedience attacks on cameras like they do in the UK - hanging burning tyres over the Gatsos.

Gremlin

28th August 2020, 22:27

If every body that gets a $30 ticket defended it , The coppers will give up writing them.
It takes the officer about 2 hours to get all the paper work ready for a defended case.
And then He or She has to turn up for court sometimes on there day off.
You will loose a day off work but entertaing
Yeah, the only way I see the police being taught a lesson, after all, public perception does not factor into their decisions (their statement). Once the entire road policing unit are sitting in court lined up for each case, and the courts are backlogged by 6+ months for dozens of $30 tickets a week, perhaps someone with enough power will re-consider. As it is, a decade ago they were trying to limit the number of work licence applications per session as the judges didn't like to see so many in one hit. Imagine case after case of $30 :laugh: Part of democracy is being allowed a fair defence - including the police disclosing all applicable evidence.

I've got my car set to 1kph tolerance in cruise control settings. It will still allow the car to go more than 5kph faster than a setting and I have to intervene. It's tricky keeping some bikes within a 5kph band, as the slightest adjustment of a light throttle is easily 3-4 kph.

With the reduced limits across Auckland and tolerance removed, it's ridiculous (some areas went from 100kph to 50kph). Glad I've traded the Tuono on an adventure bike though, spend more time exploring gravel, and use the main roads as a means to an end.

SaferRides

28th August 2020, 22:59

They've kept that very quiet.

Fixed camera fines will go through the roof. That's what happened last summer with all of the new cameras. But I understood NZTA were taking over the speed cameras?

My prediction - deaths will be down this year as a result of lockdowns, etc and the cops will say it's reduced speed. But it will be a blip and they will increase again next year and continue increasing.

What happened to all of the new median barriers? Unlike over zealous cops, they actually save lives.

Berries

29th August 2020, 08:12

What happened to all of the new median barriers?
They finally realised the obvious, they can only afford to treat a teeny weeny section of the network.

I am quite certain there is no link between the lack of funds and lowering of the speed tolerance to increase fines after the drastic and ongoing reduction in posted speed limits across the country. Perhaps the latter was done to alter the pie chart on the Stuff link? Can't have it looking like speed is a factor in less than a third of crashes.

SaferRides

29th August 2020, 08:25

Some of the speed limit changes in the Auckland district are mental, although others are reasonable given the housing density on some rural roads.

But 30 km/h on Franklin Road??? So why did they spend all that money on traffic calming when they could have just reduced the limit?

Berries

29th August 2020, 09:17

But 30 km/h on Franklin Road??? So why did they spend all that money on traffic calming when they could have just reduced the limit?
It is the way of the future young Luke.

80km/h on country roads
60km/h on the nice and twisty rural roads
40km/h in built up areas
30km/h in shopping areas

You can't argue with the physics involved but fuck me, twice as many people die of suicide than do on the roads, way too many people die too early of manageable illnesses, our DHB is skint and they continue on this focus to try and derail the Darwin theory. Hey, I get paid to be part of this circus but the priorities are all fucked up. 350 dead on the road is I think the price we pay for our access and mobility*. The effort required to get to zero is ludicrous, this is just the start.

*"But what if they were your family?" I don't buy in to that sorry.

rastuscat

29th August 2020, 09:24

But 30 km/h on Franklin Road??? So why did they spend all that money on traffic calming when they could have just reduced the limit?

Because the speed that people travel at is a product of many things. The number on the sign is one factor. But largely, people drive at the speed that feels right in the environment they are driving in.

So engineering the environment to slow people down, and reducing the speed limit, are more likely to actually work than just one thing on its own.

I recall Franklin Road as part of my beat back in the day. In 1988 the tolerance was 19 kmh. Until you were doing 70 we wouldn't have even stopped you.

Good old days? Not really. We killed so many more people each year on the roads back then. Lots of change has happened. Better roads, better cars, better enforcement, more education. This speed thing was an inevitable next step as our understanding has changed.

SaferRides

29th August 2020, 09:37

Because the speed that people travel at is a product of many things. The number on the sign is one factor. But largely, people drive at the speed that feels right in the environment they are driving in.

So engineering the environment to slow people down, and reducing the speed limit, are more likely to actually work than just one thing on its own.

I recall Franklin Road as part of my beat back in the day. In 1988 the tolerance was 19 kmh. Until you were doing 70 we wouldn't have even stopped you.

Good old days? Not really. We killed so many more people each year on the roads back then. Lots of change has happened. Better roads, better cars, better enforcement, more education. This speed thing was an inevitable next step as our understanding has changed.Next time you're in Auckland have a drive in the central area. I thought it was just the CBD, which kind of makes sense as you're lucky to do 30 most of the time. But it goes out to the inner suburbs as well.

roogazza

29th August 2020, 10:14

It is the way of the future young Luke.
80km/h on country roads
60km/h on the nice and twisty rural roads
40km/h in built up areas
30km/h in shopping areas
You can't argue with the physics involved but fuck me, twice as many people die of suicide than do on the roads, way too many people die too early of manageable illnesses, our DHB is skint and they continue on this focus to try and derail the Darwin theory. Hey, I get paid to be part of this circus but the priorities are all fucked up. 350 dead on the road is I think the price we pay for our access and mobility*. The effort required to get to zero is ludicrous, this is just the start.
*"But what if they were your family?" I don't buy in to that sorry.

Thank christ we lived thru the seventies Berries, what a great time it was to be young and alive !

No tolerance makes no sense , hopefully the young policemen will use their discretion.
I certainly did in my day. :shifty::wings:

release_the_bees

29th August 2020, 10:23

I'm not so worried about the police, as I suspect, in most cases, they will probably use common sense and still allow a slight tolerance. It's the speed cameras that I'm worried about. I'll be bloody grumpy if I get a ticket for doing 51 in a 50 or similar.

If I'm wrong, and the enforcement turns out to be draconian, all it will do is force me onto the back roads even more (they're already my preference) where I'm less likely to be bothered for a minor indiscretion.

To be clear, I pretty much always ride within the speed limit. I've had two speeding fines (both speed cameras) in 20 years of riding - one was for 56 in a 50 on a holiday weekend on a rental bike with a speedo in mph. The other was 94 in an 80.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Blackbird

29th August 2020, 10:42

Good old days? Not really. We killed so many more people each year on the roads back then. Lots of change has happened. Better roads, better cars, better enforcement, more education. This speed thing was an inevitable next step as our understanding has changed.

I don't have a particular problem with speed enforcement as long as the letter of the law is applied with a modicum of common sense. It's a useful tool to help rein in stupidity by members of the motoring public but it's no more than a band aid. Vehicle performance coupled with all the modern distractions and general pace of life has probably widened the gap between the actual riding and driving proficiency required and what is being formally taught to acquire a license. Politicians probably regard a mandated rise in standards as political suicide but until that nettle is grasped, initiatives like this will only be an ambulance at the bottom of a cliff. Over the last 2 or 3 years on KB, I've noticed a real increase in the acceptance of on-going upskilling which is great. Initiatives like R4E have helped in this respect. However, I doubt that the same enthusiasm would be reflected in the general motoring public and maybe it's time to start thinking outside the box to address the wider issue than just punitive means.

Berries

29th August 2020, 10:54

To be clear, I pretty much always ride within the speed limit. I've had two speeding fines (both speed cameras) in 20 years of riding - one was for 56 in a 50 on a holiday weekend on a rental bike with a speedo in mph. The other was 94 in an 80.
I'll be brutally honest here and say that I ride for the adrenaline rush it gives me and unfortunately this is often incompatible with the national speed limit. I suspect most people with a modern sports bike are the same, either that or they are hypocrites. There is a time and a place for 'making progress', luckily it is still possible to find both on my daily ride.

My only speeding ticket was in a car. I still blame the bloody kids for that one.

29th August 2020, 11:14

Poor timing of this inevitable approach. The nation is suffering from a global pandemic. 2020 will go down as one of the most miserable years in many peoples lives, lost lives, lost jobs, lost freedoms (travel and the like). Right now the Government need the people on side more than ever. We need to work as a team (yeah I hate that team of 5m line too). So this move will just turn people off 'cooperating' with the authorities.

A case that really annoyed me was in the 1st week of lockdown my Wife's boss is a Doctor, a really nice woman. When everyone was forced to stay home, sleeping in, she was off to work at 6.30am on an empty road, a cop pulls her over for doing 58kpm in a 50 zone. A deserted 50kph zone. She was in her medical garb, she's off to work to help sick people. He writes her a ticket for going 8 over. Just when the whole nation was in need of compassion and understanding and all our Government were asking us to 'be kind and considerate'. Clearly he missed that message.

Dean

29th August 2020, 12:08

But 30 km/h on Franklin Road??? So why did they spend all that money on traffic calming when they could have just reduced the limit?

Mainly because they need to spend budget.

I’m guessing Franklin road traffic calming measures were constructed just before the end of fiscal year (May/June)...

And also because invasive speed measures work.
People don’t tend to heed signs, however try going 50kph over a speed hump.

jellywrestler

29th August 2020, 12:16

When everyone was forced to stay home, sleeping in, she was off to work at 6.30am on an empty road, a cop pulls her over for doing 58kpm in a 50 zone. A deserted 50kph zone. She was in her medical garb, she's off to work to help sick people. He writes her a ticket for going 8 over. Just when the whole nation was in need of compassion and understanding and all our Government were asking us to 'be kind and considerate'. Clearly he missed that message. she must be a boomer with a sense of entitlement then.

Dean

29th August 2020, 12:31

Boomers are the ones who created and enforce zero tolerance rules.

Us Millennials don’t buy into that garbage.

caspernz

29th August 2020, 12:56

I don't have a particular problem with speed enforcement as long as the letter of the law is applied with a modicum of common sense. It's a useful tool to help rein in stupidity by members of the motoring public but it's no more than a band aid. Vehicle performance coupled with all the modern distractions and general pace of life has probably widened the gap between the actual riding and driving proficiency required and what is being formally taught to acquire a license. Politicians probably regard a mandated rise in standards as political suicide but until that nettle is grasped, initiatives like this will only be an ambulance at the bottom of a cliff. Over the last 2 or 3 years on KB, I've noticed a real increase in the acceptance of on-going upskilling which is great. Initiatives like R4E have helped in this respect. However, I doubt that the same enthusiasm would be reflected in the general motoring public and maybe it's time to start thinking outside the box to address the wider issue than just punitive means.

Lack of political willpower is a big problem in this arena. Got no beef with speed limits being enforced. Got a problem with speed being the only aspect being enforced with enthusiasm, at least that's my perception.
It's a shame when the driver licensing reform bill is sitting in some politicians' drawer, and yes it'll only address some of the aspects, but it's a start.
As you mentioned Geoff, a mandated lift in standards would indeed be a nasty nettle to grasp for a politician.

Personal accountability is missing in a large portion of the motoring public though, and combined with enforcement being "missing in action" to a large degree, the average motorist has become rather casual in driving/riding to a standard.
Just looking at this from a riding perspective, my take on the average rider is simple: Too fast for the conditions, following too close and not looking far enough ahead.
The irony is that a portion of Ride Forever participants would fail the current licence test, and these are folks who came along to improve. On that note, and just my observation, the vast majority of riders who've gone thru the CBTA system are far safer riders than most who've been self-taught and had a licence for decades. Hence the focus on longer term riders by ACC, it's eminently valid.
I'm all for a mandatory resit of licence test every 5 or 10 years, but then I've always seen the holding of a driver licence as a privilege rather than a right.

I'll be brutally honest here and say that I ride for the adrenaline rush it gives me and unfortunately this is often incompatible with the national speed limit. I suspect most people with a modern sports bike are the same, either that or they are hypocrites. There is a time and a place for 'making progress', luckily it is still possible to find both on my daily ride.

My only speeding ticket was in a car. I still blame the bloody kids for that one.

There's a time and place for a bit of speed, and yes I suspect most of us with modern sports bikes fall into this category, I won't be a hypocrite on that.

My last speeding ticket was around 15 years ago. Dead of night, trucking along, long stretch of long term roadworks which had loooong 70 km/h approach zones. Coming out of the works on the downhill, long left the 30 km/h zone, in the 70 and let the retarder off with open road sign barely a hundred metres up the road. Pinged at 75 in a 70 and yep cash register from Taihape got me...so since then I've been that "slow" trucker in roadworks :innocent:

Hoonicorn

29th August 2020, 13:28

"There’s lots of evidence to suggest if you target that bracket of 1 to 10kmh above the posted speed limit, that [has] the greatest impact on reducing the mean speed across the region... Reducing speed reduces the severity of crashes – it’s an undeniable truth,” Welch said.

Sure, reducing speed reduces the damage to your car when a dickhead cuts into your lane less than a metre in front of you, but it's the dickheads that are the problem. THey'll get impatient when everyone is going a few Ks under the limit and erratically switch lanes and drive like... well, like dickheads. However, zero-tolerances just mean more focus on watching your speed and less focus on watching the road ahead and catching those warning signs that the dickhead head jumping lanes is about to cut you off.

If any of you watch the Aussie dashcams on youtube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvfqpaehdaqtkXPNhvJRyGA), spotting hazards early is what prevents most accidents.

george formby

29th August 2020, 13:40

Just had a wee chat with a local fiery about a reduced speed limit - 100kmh > 80kmh - on a local road. It's not particularly twisty, generally good visibility and rural.

I asked him what the most common time for accident call outs was on this road...

Between 11pm and 3am, almost always a single vehicle accident, usually involving impairment or just a slow driver in a fast car (hoon).

So due to the local hoons, a perfectly normal bit of road is now deemed dangerous and speeds reduced. I doubt the speed limit change or zero tolerance policy will have any effect on these midnight scenery visits.

29th August 2020, 13:47

she must be a boomer with a sense of entitlement then.

Ha. So from your high chair of sainthood you preach as if you have never exceeded a speed limit by 8kph. She's probably too young to be a boomer by the way. Entitled? Lets see. She would have given up 7 years of her youth to study medicine so she can help people. She's no doubt paid enough taxes to pave most of the roads around your neighbourhood and some. So yeah she has a right to use the road and deserve an ounce of discretion when the circumstances justify it.

jellywrestler

29th August 2020, 13:49

Ha. So from your high chair of sainthood you preach as if you have never exceeded a speed limit by 8kph. She's probably too young to be a boomer by the way. Entitled? Lets see. She would have given up 7 years of her youth to study medicine so she can help people. She's no doubt paid enough taxes to pave most of the roads around your neighbourhood and some. So yeah she has a right to use the road and deserve an ounce of discretion when the circumstances justify it.

never winged about getting a speeding ticket, do the crime do the time it's not like it isn't advertised about.

Dean

29th August 2020, 14:14

Sounds like 7 years of learning how to medically assist those that she is putting in danger from her reckless driving over the speed limit.

george formby

29th August 2020, 14:48

I'd love to see civil disobedience attacks on cameras like they do in the UK - hanging burning tyres over the Gatsos.

<_< Do you have a Ford Ranger?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503343&objectid=12360581

rastuscat

29th August 2020, 17:39

30th August 2020, 10:04

Sounds like 7 years of learning how to medically assist those that she is putting in danger from her reckless driving over the speed limit.
I had to wait until the laughing stopped hurting. 58kph being described as reckless driving.

BMWGSER

30th August 2020, 10:20

305951...you have been warned! :laugh:

FUCK...THEM!:angry:

NZ mechanical standards LAW, clearly states that speedo's must be accurate within a 10% margin...and allowances MUST be made for this fact & LAW!

...currently, if you disbute the ticket for a BULLSHIT! amount over the speed limit...you can ONLY go to a police approved "Speedo Testin facility"(...of which there are only THREE in the country!)...and the cost to prove your speedo was out...is over $300!!, so this actually means that the tickets cannot be legally defended in court by the average motorist....which every Kiwi has A RIGHT! to do so.

This is a BLATANT scam by the Govt & police to generate more "unqustionable" revenue from the avergae road user...NOTHING MORE!!!(Move the goal posts much??)

Again, they have twisted the figures to met there own greedy agenda.

REFUSE TO ACCEPT THE TICKET!!...you have the RIGHT to defend yourself in court, make them post the ticket and clearly state, "I will be disbuting this ticket officer, as this has NOTHING to do with roadsafety, and you have limited my means to defend myself...see you in court!"

If EVERYONE!!!!, does this, the courts will be crippled by the influx of case's...the cost's will soar, more and more police will be held up in court, and the whole BS scheme will have to be scrapped as it will cost MORE to collect the fines, than the revenue created!....fight back!!, use there own Bullshit systems against them.

enough is enough!, we are NOT an endless source of revenue for this Greedy Govt...FIGHT FUCKING BACK!!

REFUSE THE TICKETS!!

NZ Police...whom do you serve??, the PEOPLE of NZ?...or just those in power or Rich enough to afford "NZ justice"! (But by all means, keep pushing!...No seriously!...just keep fucking pushing us!!...theres only 18k of you!...best you lot don't forget THAT! fucking figure:shifty:...you tax collectiing sellouts!:motu:)

Have a great Xmas NZ...don't forget to bring your ID & Wallets!<_<

ps-I Have always had the greatest respect for the police and the difficult job they do(And I have taken MANY a beating backing there arse up when I ran Bars etc all over NZ)...but recently, the force seems to have changed for the worse!...more & more young, tattooed up, angry, violent, short tempered power tripping thugs! seem to be joining the force (And are encouraged to do so..."to dumb to pass the math test?...HELL!, best we lower it then, we don't need "intellectuals" anyway...just THUGS!")....well Im over it!, they wanna alienate themselves from the average Kiwi by treating us as ignorant fools who can't see BULLSHIT & BLATANT revenue collection when its put in front of us...fine!, ITS THERE LOSS!

- you reap what you sow!<_< (And all there planting lately...is discontempt!)

-RANT OFFICALLY OVER :D

They post tickets out now anyway. Good point about the 10% speedo accuracy for WOF. Just defend every ticket. Don’t argue with the cop , take down details ,rego of his car , time ,location .If 40,60,70.80. Speed limits photos of signs and distance apart and check with regulations.

jellywrestler

30th August 2020, 11:36

They post tickets out now anyway. Good point about the 10% speedo accuracy for WOF. .

they removed that when someone pointed out how can they run to a 4% margin of error when the government appointed standard is 10%.
easy, remover the 10% and now it only has to function to get a warrant.

Dean

30th August 2020, 12:06

I had to wait until the laughing stopped hurting. 58kph being described as reckless driving.

David Morrison - Chief of Army
“The standard you walk past is the standard you accept”.

rastuscat

30th August 2020, 18:53

R650R

30th August 2020, 20:56

Just something to consider. A reduction in overall fleet speed means a reduction in the kinetic energy involved in crashes.

If no crashes happened, the speed we do wouldn't matter. But whats the chances.

If we wuz all awesome drivers/riders this crackdown wouldn't have happened.

This and other gems available at a po-faced poster like me.

Bah humbug.

We could have a few months of level four lockdown as well, that’s just as painful as doing 99 but would save even more lives.
We need a sensible balance and the previous status quo was it.
Police Comms is going to be jammed with Karen’s reporting people overtaking at 110 in 100 zone.
Poor cops are going to be even more alienated on top of this other antifa/BLM drama...

I’m predicting a rise in the road toll for the next two years. The covid apocalypse means a mere sneeze could see you die alone in a govt death camp so people are going to YOLO and live every day like it’s your last.
I went on a ride yesterday that was normally outside my own yes/no safety checks. Slightly tired from night shift, high winds and other factors.
But I went because I might wake up tommorow to find the country wrecked with another lockdown.
I’ve been riding lots more than normal which increases my risk exposure and sure others doung same.

Kickaha

30th August 2020, 22:06

The covid apocalypse means a mere sneeze could see you die alone in a govt death camp

Care to share whatever drugs you're on ?

Berries

30th August 2020, 22:33

pete376403

31st August 2020, 07:25

I’m predicting a rise in the road toll for the next two years. .

Starting now
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300095257/seven-people-killed-in-horror-weekend-on-new-zealand-roads

Hows that zero tolerance working for you, Gini?

rastuscat

31st August 2020, 08:24

So where do you draw the line, 60km/h open road speed limit?

Its the balance between the economic need for mobility and the health outcomes caused by that mobility.

I reflect that in my neighbourhood Level 4 actually improved the quality of the living environment. More people walked and cycled, more people met their neighbours (from a distance). Problem was the economy couldn't continue like that.

Our economy has developed on the assumption of mobility. When you try to limit/reduce mobility (in this case, reducing speeds) you compromise health outcomes.

Just makes me smile when I see posts about how crap our roads and drivers are, then other posts about how we should be allowed to go faster.

Good plan.

TheDemonLord

31st August 2020, 09:15

Don't worry guys, we will just have a reduced tolerance on Public Holidays....

Blackbird

31st August 2020, 10:23

Just makes me smile when I see posts about how crap our roads and drivers are, then other posts about how we should be allowed to go faster.

I took a police officer out yesterday for an IAM assessment ride in the central Waikato. We had a great day in superb weather conditions. Chatting over lunch, it was a timely reminder just how much of their days are filled with observing poor driving and riding standards, and the carnage that arises from it. Whilst enforcement is only part of equation in reducing the road toll, you can hardly blame the police for reacting to what they observe every day. It's not a job I could do.

ellipsis

31st August 2020, 10:38

...just read our local police report for yesterdays fine sunny day on SH75...20 tickets issued, eight for speed and twelve for noisy exhausts...I bet all of these speeding tickets went to two wheeled vehicles and the hundreds of fuckwits towing boats and jet skis and trailers with stuff for the bach and going like fuck, as in way over 90kph etc didn't get a second look from the three cops on the highway all day...

rastuscat

31st August 2020, 10:58

I took a police officer out yesterday for an IAM assessment ride in the central Waikato. We had a great day in superb weather conditions. Chatting over lunch, it was a timely reminder just how much of their days are filled with observing poor driving and riding standards, and the carnage that arises from it. Whilst enforcement is only part of equation in reducing the road toll, you can hardly blame the police for reacting to what they observe every day. It's not a job I could do.

27 years was enough for me.

I did two IAM advanced assessments yesterday, it was awesome to see some high class riding instead of what I normally see out and about.

rastuscat

31st August 2020, 10:59

ellipsis

31st August 2020, 11:09

...from my wife...our chief of police out at Akaroa posted that this morning...probably facebook...

rastuscat

31st August 2020, 11:11

...from my wife...our chief of police out at Akaroa posted that this morning...probably facebook...

It's bound to be true if it came off Facebook

pritch

31st August 2020, 11:23

It's bound to be true if it came off Facebook

It might be this from the Akaroa buy sell and exchange page.

Akaroa Police: Community update
Notice for those who I’ve had many discussions with about motorcycles in this area.

Over this gorgeous warm weekend Sgt John Hamilton has been in the area helping out and in particular checking on motorbikes. He has issued 12 tickets for noisy exhausts, and 8 for speed.
There were 100’s of motorcyclists both days and most people were riding well on legal bikes and enjoying themselves. #respectyourride

ellipsis

31st August 2020, 11:24

It's bound to be true if it came off Facebook

...thems the facts as written this am on her regular updates on crime on the peninsula...I don't use facebook but I am party to my wifes random, burblings about shit on fb...I thought it apt to mention it...you could check out Anita's report yourself if you could be bothered...how you get there, I don't know...

Scuba_Steve

31st August 2020, 12:34

I took a police officer out yesterday for an IAM assessment ride in the central Waikato. We had a great day in superb weather conditions. Chatting over lunch, it was a timely reminder just how much of their days are filled with observing poor driving and riding standards, and the carnage that arises from it. Whilst enforcement is only part of equation in reducing the road toll, you can hardly blame the police for reacting to what they observe every day. It's not a job I could do.

But they don't do shit about bad driving, even on occasion encourage it.
They will however harass you for driving completely safety & courteously should you be traveling slightly faster than a number someone once made up
This of-course results in a detrimental effect to not only road safety but also the public view on Police

Blackbird

31st August 2020, 13:11

But they don't do shit about bad driving, even on occasion encourage it.
They will however harass you for driving completely safety & courteously should you be traveling slightly faster than a number someone once made up
This of-course results in a detrimental effect to not only road safety but also the public view on Police

The use of the word "They" is disingenuous, lumping every cop together and probably inferring that it's all part of a grand plan. I have quite a bit to do with the police, some who ride bikes and others who don't. In either a social or official setting, I haven't found them any different to any other section of society. In the past when travelling slightly faster than your "made up" number, only once did it result in a fine and points. The few others only copped a telling-off or a flash of headlights.

You might have experienced something different, but mine has been pretty good overall, apart from one incident in the UK when I was young.

rastuscat

31st August 2020, 14:59

It might be this from the Akaroa buy sell and exchange page.

Akaroa Police: Community update
Notice for those who I’ve had many discussions with about motorcycles in this area.

Over this gorgeous warm weekend Sgt John Hamilton has been in the area helping out and in particular checking on motorbikes. He has issued 12 tickets for noisy exhausts, and 8 for speed.
There were 100’s of motorcyclists both days and most people were riding well on legal bikes and enjoying themselves. #respectyourride

I glazed over as soon as I saw the name John Hamilton. He's a former detective, who is bad with conflict.

So he picks the low hanging fruit, to prevent having to confront people.

For example, when the law on obscured number plates was changed to target anti social road users, he went and took over 100 photos of cars belonging to Mr and Mrs Average with a bike rack on the back, and wanted to post out tickets for obscured number plates.

The management think he's the bees knees as he has no idea what discretion is, and they aren't brave enough to straighten him out.

He loves the noisy exhaust tickets, as it's mostly young males, who he isn't scared to deal with.

jellywrestler

31st August 2020, 15:19

He loves the noisy exhaust tickets, as it's mostly young males, who he isn't scared to deal with.

so he carries a db meter on his outings?

rastuscat

31st August 2020, 16:06

so he carries a db meter on his outings?

That's the wonderful part about noisy exhaust legislation. It's a subjective test.

Well, there's an objective test done in a sound booth etc, but there's also the subjective test done at the road side.

If the vehicle has a modified exhaust and that exhaust is louder than the factory exhaust made when it was new, the ticket can be written. It depends on time place and circumstances.

Amazes me that cops hammer young guys in cars with that bit of law, but don't seem to do much about modified exhausts on bikes.

31st August 2020, 16:22

David Morrison - Chief of Army
“The standard you walk past is the standard you accept”.

I walked passed your car the other day. Not a standard I'm prepared to accept.

jellywrestler

31st August 2020, 16:40

That's the wonderful part about noisy exhaust legislation. It's a subjective test.

Well, there's an objective test done in a sound booth etc, but there's also the subjective test done at the road side.

If the vehicle has a modified exhaust and that exhaust is louder than the factory exhaust made when it was new, the ticket can be written. It depends on time place and circumstances.

Amazes me that cops hammer young guys in cars with that bit of law, but don't seem to do much about modified exhausts on bikes.

Odd that an offence, like speeding, depth of tread on tires, that is measurable ;is left to guess work.

Scuba_Steve

31st August 2020, 16:59

The use of the word "They" is disingenuous, lumping every cop together and probably inferring that it's all part of a grand plan. I have quite a bit to do with the police, some who ride bikes and others who don't. In either a social or official setting, I haven't found them any different to any other section of society. In the past when travelling slightly faster than your "made up" number, only once did it result in a fine and points. The few others only copped a telling-off or a flash of headlights.

You might have experienced something different, but mine has been pretty good overall, apart from one incident in the UK when I was young.

"they" implies the majority & I'll stand behind that claim
I could probably count on one hand the amount of times I've seen a cop do something about bad driving whereas I'd need a fair few assistants to provide some hands to count how many I've seen harass "speeders"; but I guess it's hard to see the bad driving with a laser/radar device in your face

rastuscat

31st August 2020, 17:23

"they" implies the majority & I'll stand behind that claim
I could probably count on one hand the amount of times I've seen a cop do something about bad driving whereas I'd need a fair few assistants to provide some hands to count how many I've seen harass "speeders"; but I guess it's hard to see the bad driving with a laser/radar device in your face

I suggest that the lack of ability to sufficiently restrain a vehicles speed constitutes bad driving.

Discuss.

jellywrestler

31st August 2020, 17:34

I suggest that the lack of ability to sufficiently restrain a vehicles speed constitutes bad driving.

Discuss.

so passing a truck which legally is 10 km slower than you requires how long on the other side of the road and how many looks at the sppedo as you're too fucking scared of a ticket.???
Also, the government insist your vehcile must have a speedo and a warrant to operarte, but the warrant only has to ensure the speedo functions, so how the fuck does that work, why aren't all warrants checking the calibration of your speedo so at least you have the tools to drive with and know what you are doing?

rastuscat

31st August 2020, 18:47

so passing a truck which legally is 10 km slower than you requires how long on the other side of the road and how many looks at the sppedo as you're too fucking scared of a ticket.???
Also, the government insist your vehcile must have a speedo and a warrant to operarte, but the warrant only has to ensure the speedo functions, so how the fuck does that work, why aren't all warrants checking the calibration of your speedo so at least you have the tools to drive with and know what you are doing?

The vast majority is traffic travels below the speed limit. Partly caused by the fact (yes, fact) that the majority of speedos read optimistically. Like, at 50, most read 55 or so.

So in order to avoid tickets, people drive at 50 on their speedo, which is actually 45 ish.

Drive on the open road in a plain patrol car with a radar and you'll realise that the vast majority of cars don't exceed the speed limit.

But then, when you have that interesting "You were doing 112kmh" conversation, people tell you that everyone goes that fast.

Actually no.

I'll be sticking to my guns on this one. The vast majority of people who get tickets at 55 on a 50 kmh area, their speed would have been reading closer to 60 at the time they were checked. Not that anyone ever admits that. They just claim speedo error, despite the fact that it actually works against their position.

As more and more vehicles are using GPS, this is becoming more evident. People are realizing their speedos are reading high. Which slows us down.

Gremlin

31st August 2020, 19:01

Drive on the open road in a plain patrol car with a radar and you'll realise that the vast majority of cars don't exceed the speed limit.
Post the first lockdown this actually changed, at least around Auckland motorways and Waikato expressway. Now I'm holding up some boats and trailers doing a real 100-105kph, nevermind the other vehicles without trailers that must be closer to 115-120...

In terms of controlling speed, that varies. With more than 100k on the Hornet, I mostly keep it within a 5kph bracket, quite consistently, not too much effort on my part. The KTM 1090R I've just added is bloody difficult to get close to that. More power, a very light throttle spring and little seat time, even watching it down a flat straight I'm struggling to keep within a consistent 3-4kph.

2016 Mazda company car with cruise control, set to 1kph tolerance, will let speed change by more than 5kph (at that point I intervene as it's obviously not controlling it).

jellywrestler

31st August 2020, 19:30

As more and more vehicles are using GPS, this is becoming more evident. People are realizing their speedos are reading high. Which slows us down.

and that in itself produces dramas where the fuckwits who are driving at the speedo reading think we are fuckwits for driving at the real speed....
when are the cops going to man up and actually ploice the roads instead of targetting speed most of the time? the driving standard is poor simply, and everyone thinks they're an angel on the roads because they don't speed.

release_the_bees

31st August 2020, 19:36

The vast majority of people who get tickets at 55 on a 50 kmh area, their speed would have been reading closer to 60 at the time they were checked. Not that anyone ever admits that.

I would have thought that it was common knowledge that speedos under-read, and people would factor that in accordingly. I know both my bikes read 10% over and the car reads 5% over and I take that into account when riding or driving (110 indicated on my bike or 105 in the car = 100 actual).

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Gremlin

31st August 2020, 19:39

I would have thought that it was common knowledge that speedos under-read, and people would factor that in accordingly.
I would suggest that most either haven't given it a single thought, or don't even realise different vehicles vary.

Hell, the air pressure in the tyres can make accuracy vary by up to 4kph ish (and we're talking tyres that still work, not flat vs full). Worn tyres vs new are 1-2kph difference as well.

rastuscat

31st August 2020, 19:59

I would have thought that it was common knowledge that speedos under-read

They don't, they over-read.

release_the_bees

31st August 2020, 20:27

Sorry. Typo. I meant overread.

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rastuscat

31st August 2020, 21:20

I had an interesting encounter with a punter on an Auckland road early in my career. Pukeora Ave.

I caught a guy going around a slight bend in the road at 70 something. It was a KR10 radar, back in those days.

He argued that as he wasn't travelling directly down the radar beam (on the bend), it was unfair to write him the ticket.

Little did he know that cosine angle effect actually decreases the displayed speed, proportional to the angle of incidence to the beam.

https://copradar.com/chapts/chapt2/ch2d1.html#:~:text=on%20Radar%20and%20Lidar&text=Police%20microwave%20and%20laser%20radars,%2C %20or%20receding%2C%20the%20radar.&text=The%20phenomenon%20is%20called%20the,of%20tra vel%20or%20speed%20vector.

A little bit on knowledge (quite common in this field) is a dangerous thing.

Dean

31st August 2020, 23:39

I walked passed your car the other day. Not a standard I'm prepared to accept.

That’s actually not a bad car tbh.
Would be worth a fair bit of coin these days.

End of the day It’s important to hold yourself to a standard.
Don’t get comfortable with 8kph or anything over.
Hold yourself and others accountable, be a role model & drive safe.

Bye.

nerrrd

1st September 2020, 07:52

Or we could all just exercise a little more patience :lol:.

Anyway I heard a road policing person on the radio saying it's just semantics, the 'tolerance' has always been subject to the discretion of the officers on the ground, and that hasn't changed. So move along, nothing to see here...

Were the speed cameras ever adjusted to take this 'tolerance' into account I wonder?

Scuba_Steve

1st September 2020, 08:10

I suggest that the lack of ability to sufficiently restrain a vehicles speed constitutes bad driving.

Discuss.

Many factors some which are beyond user control can affect speed. Heavy head on wind that suddenly gives can see you go from 98km/h to 104km/h in a couple secs

But "speeding" isn't bad driving. It's not dangerous anymore than driving itself (within reason obviously), it doesn't affect anyone else's travel, & it has been shown many times to be safer.
Saying "speeding" constitutes bad driving is like saying riding a motorbike makes you a gang member [cough] Queensland [cough]. Sure some "speeding" is result of bad driving & some bikers are gang members but one does not equal the other & in majority are in no way associated.

rastuscat

1st September 2020, 10:49

Many factors some which are beyond user control can affect speed. Heavy head on wind that suddenly gives can see you go from 98km/h to 104km/h in a couple secs

But "speeding" isn't bad driving. It's not dangerous anymore than driving itself (within reason obviously), it doesn't affect anyone else's travel, & it has been shown many times to be safer.
Saying "speeding" constitutes bad driving is like saying riding a motorbike makes you a gang member [cough] Queensland [cough]. Sure some "speeding" is result of bad driving & some bikers are gang members but one does not equal the other & in majority are in no way associated.

Side note : you have been far more civilized of late. Are you okay?

Lots of talk about all the tickets that will be written for 1 or 2 over a limit. Cameras will be the only issue there, as not many cops will do that.

And I'd very surprised if the trigger speed on a camera is less than 4 kph over any limit.

Navy Boy

1st September 2020, 11:14

I glazed over as soon as I saw the name John Hamilton. He's a former detective, who is bad with conflict.

So he picks the low hanging fruit, to prevent having to confront people.

For example, when the law on obscured number plates was changed to target anti social road users, he went and took over 100 photos of cars belonging to Mr and Mrs Average with a bike rack on the back, and wanted to post out tickets for obscured number plates.

The management think he's the bees knees as he has no idea what discretion is, and they aren't brave enough to straighten him out.

He loves the noisy exhaust tickets, as it's mostly young males, who he isn't scared to deal with.

Interesting there Rastus - So if a bike has passed a WOF with a certain exhaust fitted (That may not be what it left the factory with) is such a person still in a position to give a ticket? For instance my Triumph Thunderbird has genuine Triumph silencers fitted (They were on the bike when I bought it and the originals didn't come with the bike) but they are louder than the standard pipes. It's passed the last two WOFs in Blenheim without any issues at all and the pipes weren't even mentioned. I'd have thought that if that was the case then he'd be on very dodgy legal ground then?

For the record I do not like loud bikes. Yes I've owned a few in my past but I've always felt too self-conscious when riding them plus it makes a long ride (Say 4+ hours) more tiring I've found. I'm just genuinely curious about this point.

JimO

1st September 2020, 11:16

Navy Boy

1st September 2020, 11:25

what about every harley on the road

Take another read Jim - I'm not asking about H-Ds with open drain pipes that happen to have passed a WOF (Though I'm not sure how) but bikes that have a non-standard exhaust (That may be OEM but just isn't what it left the factory with).

For the record my H-D 48 has its standard pipes - Not all H-Ds are made offensively loud. :no:

Autech

1st September 2020, 11:45

Good to see the new stance is working well

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300095257/eight-people-killed-in-horror-weekend-on-new-zealand-roads

Wonder if they were too busy looking at their speedos worried they'll creep over by 1kmph and ran off the road?

rastuscat

1st September 2020, 12:13

Interesting there Rastus - So if a bike has passed a WOF with a certain exhaust fitted (That may not be what it left the factory with) is such a person still in a position to give a ticket? For instance my Triumph Thunderbird has genuine Triumph silencers fitted (They were on the bike when I bought it and the originals didn't come with the bike) but they are louder than the standard pipes. It's passed the last two WOFs in Blenheim without any issues at all and the pipes weren't even mentioned. I'd have thought that if that was the case then he'd be on very dodgy legal ground then?

It's a question of degree. Remember that the WoF only ever says that it meets the standard in the VIRM, at the time the test was conducted.

My son has a Harley Breakout. Sigh. It has a Vance and Hines muffler, and wakes the dead when he starts it to warm it up.

It's louder than the standard exhaust, but was fitted from new by the dealer, after having been designed by V&H for that specific HD.

When I ride it, I ride it so as to not make too much noise. But when he rides it, it wakes the dead. So it's almost a question of the attitude of the rider.

And it's why the police don't focus much on this. The law mostly gets enforced against young guys in cars which left the factory quiet as, but have now had penis extensions fitted.

Those RX-7s that you can hear from a mile away. I knew a guy who had one of those from new, back in the 80s. It was quiet as. If it's on the road now, I'd almost guarantee it'll have a penis extension fitted, and be louder than a loud thing.

I also know of some who have taken the baffles out of their mufflers, convinced that it makes their bikes sound cooler. Claiming that it improves back pressure etc. Like, they know better than the guy who designed it, with a baffle.

It all comes down to pissing people off. I was in Coffee Culture in Rangiora a couple of years back, Sunday morning, footpath brews with some mates. We heard a dickhead on a HD with straight, unmuffled pipes coming down High Street. Doing about 20 kmh, revving the shit out of the bike. It pissed us off, as we had to stop conversations and put fingers in our ears as the noise reverberated in the canyon of shops on High Street.

So largely, if your Triumph doesn't piss people off, you won't fall foul of that subjective test.

pritch

1st September 2020, 12:39

Scuba_Steve

1st September 2020, 13:16

Side note : you have been far more civilized of late. Are you okay?

Lots of talk about all the tickets that will be written for 1 or 2 over a limit. Cameras will be the only issue there, as not many cops will do that.

And I'd very surprised if the trigger speed on a camera is less than 4 kph over any limit.

Guess the lizard men illuminate finally managed to passify me with their 5G radio waves
Could also be cause I don't meet with the police gang much anymore; if I didn't spend my younger driving days in the city with the most crime per capita despite having the most cops per capita which of-course were all too busy writing the most speeding tickets per capita to bother with silly things like criminal offenses I'd probably have been alot more civilized on the discussion of one of NZ's biggest criminal gangs long time ago.

Anyways, I'm not expecting radical changes straight away but like everything the pot is boiling slightly higher all the time I do expect increased road rage to kick in pretty soon tho & as far as road safety, well last I checked making things more dangerous is detrimental to safety

Navy Boy

1st September 2020, 13:18

It's a question of degree. Remember that the WoF only ever says that it meets the standard in the VIRM, at the time the test was conducted.

My son has a Harley Breakthrough. Sigh. It has a Vance and Hines muffler, and wakes the dead when he starts it to warm it up.

It's louder than the standard exhaust, but was fitted from new by the dealer, after having been designed by V&H for that specific HD.

When I ride it, I ride it so as to not make too much noise. But when he rides it, it wakes the dead. So it's almost a question of the attitude of the rider.

And it's why the police don't focus much on this. The law mostly gets enforced against young guys in cars which left the factory quiet as, but have now had penis extensions fitted.

Those RX-7s that you can hear from a mile away. I knew a guy who had one of those from new, back in the 80s. It was quiet as. If it's on the road now, I'd almost guarantee it'll have a penis extsnsion fitted, and be louder than a loud thing.

I also know of some who have taken the baffles out of their mufflers, convinced that it makes their bikes sound cooler. Claiming that it improves back pressure etc. Like, they know better than the guy who designed it, with a baffle.

It all comes down to pissing people off. I was in Coffee Culture in Rangiora a couple of years back, Sunday morning, footpath brews with some mates. We heard a dickhead on a HD with straight, unmuffled pipes coming down High Street. Doing about 20 kmh, revving the shit out of the bike. It pissed us off, as we had to stop conversations and put fingers in our ears as the noise reverberated in the canyon of shops on High Street.

So largely, if your Triumph doesn't piss people off, you won't fall foul of that subjective test.

Thanks Rastus - That's as I thought. In so much as if you don't take the proverbial then you're fairly safe. To clarify my Thunderbird has the Triumph accessory exhausts which are the same size and shape as the originals. They do have some silencing, just not as much as the originals. IMHO the bike's not offensively loud and the pop and burble on the overrun is ruddy lovely! :msn-wink:

As you say too the way you ride it makes a big difference too. :mellow:

Reckless

1st September 2020, 16:05

Thanks Rastus - That's as I thought. In so much as if you don't take the proverbial then you're fairly safe. To clarify my Thunderbird has the Triumph accessory exhausts which are the same size and shape as the originals. They do have some silencing, just not as much as the originals. IMHO the bike's not offensively loud and the pop and burble on the overrun is ruddy lovely! :msn-wink:

As you say too the way you ride it makes a big difference too. :mellow:

My Triumph Bonnie has aftermarket triumph issued mufflers ( they look totally stock) but on the underneath it says "not for road use" Sound good but not that loud.
Never had an Issue but it is there.

347075

347076

rastuscat

1st September 2020, 17:04

My Triumph Bonnie has aftermarket triumph issued mufflers ( they look totally stock) but on the underneath it says "not for road use" Sound good but not that loud.
Never had an Issue but it is there.

Not approved for road use? What exactly did they think they would be used for?

Reckless

1st September 2020, 17:19

Not approved for road use? What exactly did they think they would be used for?

Prob couple DBA outside legal so its their out clause so people cant say " I didnt know" give the ticket to Triumph if you act like a twat and get some cops back up or claim them for warrant fail.

rastuscat

1st September 2020, 18:50

Prob couple DBA outside legal so its their out clause so people cant say " I didnt know" give the ticket to Triumph if you act like a twat and get some cops back up or claim them for warrant fail.

Ah, I get it. The Attitude Test.

If you fail the attitude test thats when the ticket gets written.

Gremlin

1st September 2020, 19:05

I also know of some who have taken the baffles out of their mufflers, convinced that it makes their bikes sound cooler. Claiming that it improves back pressure etc. Like, they know better than the guy who designed it, with a baffle.
Well, side note here :shifty: I had a Racefit Growler on an 04 ZX10R, tiny, huge core in the midde, not much baffle around the outside. Rode a gear higher around suburbs as it was seriously loud (not as bad as the slashcut a mate had, that made the inside of your ears tingle). When it was on the dyno for a custom tune, there was a dip that couldn't be removed with the baffle in. Baffle removed, dip gone, much smoother curve. It also had more power, but in the 3-5hp range I think, not massive. I had both maps and would swap them in the powercommander depending on whatever config I was using for a length of time.

Not approved for road use? What exactly did they think they would be used for?
Legalise out. My KTM has a dongle (purchased separately at a price of course) that allows settings to be retained through a power cycle. Legally in the EU, ABS is mandatory. It is switchable as it's an adventure bike, but every time you start it, a bunch of settings revert to default. The dongle removes the revert, so whatever it was when I turned off, it is the same, the next on. It's a real pain stopping somewhere technical for a pic, and you turn it on, then spend a minute while everyone watches, as you go through the menu changing ABS, traction control etc.

The downside? After every ignition on, Not Road Legal flashes up on screen and you have to press up or down to remove it, whether the bike is started or not.

pete376403

1st September 2020, 19:17

Reckless

1st September 2020, 20:15

Got a camera ticket for 53Km/hr in Ward Street, Upper Hutt.

Seriously??
I guess its 50k?
I'd love to see someone successfully defend one of these and fuck them up completely! Set a precedent!
Speedo error Vs camera error vs wind speed vs The mechanics of keeping a car at a constant speed - leg muscle control vs Attention loss from speedo observation vs anything else.

Murray

1st September 2020, 20:24

Got a camera ticket for 53Km/hr in Ward Street, Upper Hutt.

That absolutely sux! Some stupid acting superintendant that has no brain

rastuscat

1st September 2020, 20:35

Got a camera ticket for 53Km/hr in Ward Street, Upper Hutt.
I'm surprised.

Still, 53 is higher than the speed limit, and we can't say we weren't warned.

I'd be keen to see that ticket. I had a guy claim that he got one for 51 a few years ago. I told him I'd pay it if he produced it. He never did, I call BS.

Autech

1st September 2020, 20:56

Back when burglar alarms in cars were a fad. While I was in town one day an obnoxiously loud car was accelerated hard up the main street. As he passed each parked car the alarm was activated. A real fuckwit, but seriously impressive. :innocent:Kmart carpark in Hamilton was a great location for this. We could get them with my mates subs or by hitting VTEC. An honorable mention goes to my Pulsar after I put Kelfords in it, even though it was a legal exhaust the lump from the cams at idle reverberated perfectly to rattle windows, I could get almost every alarm in there with the lovely lumps just idling through.
Good times.

Sent from my SM-A730F using Tapatalk

1st September 2020, 20:58

Got a camera ticket for 53Km/hr in Ward Street, Upper Hutt.

Very hard to have a rational and fair conversation with a speed camera.

53 kph, a hideous speed. People could die of boredom doing 53kpm.
Have you checked with NIWA to see if that excessive speed disrupted the Earth's rotation or cracked any of the tectonic plates.

1st September 2020, 21:04

That’s actually not a bad car tbh.
Would be worth a fair bit of coin these days.

End of the day It’s important to hold yourself to a standard.
Don’t get comfortable with 8kph or anything over.
Hold yourself and others accountable, be a role model & drive safe.

Bye.

Funny thing. I have fond memories of 'The Standard'. At High School one of my best friends had a Standard 10 like that. We loved cruisin past Chch Girls High at lunchtime in the cool TEN.
He could go around in decreasing circles until he had it balanced on 2 wheels. A true stunt car. The rear seats reversed so we could sit facing backwards out the rear window. . Freaked people following us. We had a lot of teen fun in that awesome piece of British engineering. A case of don't judge a book by it's cover.

Berries

1st September 2020, 21:44

Got a camera ticket for 53Km/hr in Ward Street, Upper Hutt.
Slow down Rossi.

pete376403

1st September 2020, 23:29

I'm surprised.

Still, 53 is higher than the speed limit, and we can't say we weren't warned.

I'd be keen to see that ticket. I had a guy claim that he got one for 51 a few years ago. I told him I'd pay it if he produced it. He never did, I call BS.

It was sent to my employer (work vehicle) they take the $30 from my pay. If it was filed I will get a copy and post it here.

roogazza

2nd September 2020, 06:47

Got a camera ticket for 53Km/hr in Ward Street, Upper Hutt.

I'm waiting for someone to make it a mission in life to render them useless ???
they do it in England I've read ?

Is this that queer bitch Genter driving zero tolerance?

pete376403

2nd September 2020, 06:58

rastuscat

2nd September 2020, 07:44

It was sent to my employer (work vehicle) they take the $30 from my pay. If it was filed I will get a copy and post it here.

Wow, that's a can of worms.

There's a process established in 1992 that provides for a statutory declaration by the vehicle owner to transfer the ticket into your name. The ticket gets reissued in the name of the person who was actually driving, giving them the rights that were originally assigned to the vehicle owner i.e. pay the ticket, or challenge it.

The way your company does it, what happens if you want to challenge the ticket? It's in their name, how can you challenge it personally?

What happens if you want to request a hearing on it?

Scuba_Steve

2nd September 2020, 08:20

At one time there was a fixed camera at the top of Wainui hill, got "adjusted" a few times
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/76693799/a-vandalised-wainuiomata-speed-cameras-has-returned-with-a-guard

I'm told they were doing work to re-establish that camera bout a week ago.
timing seems to coincide with something else happening

rastuscat

2nd September 2020, 08:25

I'm told they were doing work to re-establish that camera bout a week ago.
timing seems to coincide with something else happening

Went over there at the weekend, my GPS has an audio warning telling me there's a fixed 50 kmh speed camera at the top of the hill. The limit is 80.

Have to update the GPS, me thinks. Might even turn audio warnings off, don't really need them.

pritch

2nd September 2020, 08:35

Wow, that's a can of worms.

There's a process established in 1992 that provides for a statutory declaration by the vehicle owner to transfer the ticket into your name.

That's how it was done where I worked.

The police focus on speed is interesting. British police rate speed the seventh highest cause of accidents. I can't remember all six that preceded it, it's a decade since I read that. There is a strong impression that the people in charge in our police force lack the training and knowledge required to make effective policy.

I'm reasonably sure that there will be people in the force with the training, probably ex the UK, but apparently nobody is asking them.

In case that sounds weird, some may recall a minor scandal when it was revealed that the head of the "special tactics group" (or whatever it's called) claimed to have served in the SAS. It transpired that he had not served in the SAS at all. A wannabe. Personally I know of two police members who had actually seen action with the SAS, one of whom was still with the police at that time. Of course, he was not a member of the unit.

rastuscat

2nd September 2020, 09:20

That's how it was done where I worked.

The police focus on speed is interesting. British police rate speed the seventh highest cause of accidents. I can't remember all six that preceded it, it's a decade since I read that. There is a strong impression that the people in charge in our police force lack the training and knowledge required to make effective policy.

I'm reasonably sure that there will be people in the force with the training, probably ex the UK, but apparently nobody is asking them.

In case that sounds weird, some may recall a minor scandal when it was revealed that the head of the "special tactics group" (or whatever it's called) claimed to have served in the SAS. It transpired that he had not served in the SAS at all. A wannabe. Personally I know of two police members who had actually seen action with the SAS, one of whom was still with the police at that time. Of course, he was not a member of the unit.

There's road safety, and there's road policing. Not the same.

Scuba_Steve

2nd September 2020, 10:20

Went over there at the weekend, my GPS has an audio warning telling me there's a fixed 50 kmh speed camera at the top of the hill. The limit is 80.

Have to update the GPS, me thinks. Might even turn audio warnings off, don't really need them.

Na might as well leave it, that hill will be 50km/h soon enough.

pete376403

2nd September 2020, 11:30

I'm surprised.

Still, 53 is higher than the speed limit, and we can't say we weren't warned.

I'd be keen to see that ticket. I had a guy claim that he got one for 51 a few years ago. I told him I'd pay it if he produced it. He never did, I call BS.

All the tickets are on file. My speed was 55, not 53, so, mea culpa, I was clearly endangering life and limb and deserve everything I got, and probably more as well.

(goes off to watch youtubes of UK Gatsos getting a Soweto necklace)

Berries

2nd September 2020, 13:59

British police rate speed the seventh highest cause of accidents. I can't remember all six that preceded it, it's a decade since I read that. There is a strong impression that the people in charge in our police force lack the training and knowledge required to make effective policy.
You can find anything if you look -common-causes-for-road-accidents-in-britain (https://www.regtransfers.co.uk/content/common-causes-for-road-accidents-in-britain)

Based on that list we should be hanging pedestrians from speed cameras.

rastuscat

2nd September 2020, 14:16

All the tickets are on file. My speed was 55, not 53, so, mea culpa, I was clearly endangering life and limb and deserve everything I got, and probably more as well.

(goes off to watch youtubes of UK Gatsos getting a Soweto necklace)

I'll go back to my first position.

I'd be surprised if cameras write tickets for less than 4 over.

I would be interested to see the words "endangering life" on a ticket. I thought it was just for exceeding 50 kmh.

TheDemonLord

2nd September 2020, 14:34

I'll go back to my first position.

I'd be surprised if cameras write tickets for less than 4 over.

Is that like we'd be surprised if the long-weekend lower tolerance became permanent?

rastuscat

2nd September 2020, 15:03

Is that like we'd be surprised if the long-weekend lower tolerance became permanent?

It was always gonna happen.

It started out as just outside schools. Then long weekends. Then longer holiday periods.

It's been a softening up process, getting us used to the idea.

But it still won't matter if you don't exceed a speed limit.

And before you raise the issue, I've had the odd ticket over the years too. I just accept that it's my fault, and suck it up.

TheDemonLord

2nd September 2020, 15:08

It was always gonna happen.

It started out as just outside schools. Then long weekends. Then longer holiday periods.

It's been a softening up process, getting us used to the idea.

But it still won't matter if you don't exceed a speed limit.

And before you raise the issue, I've had the odd ticket over the years too. I just accept that it's my fault, and suck it up.

That's kinda the point.

The police say that they are stripping away our current liberties due to *insert justification here* but this is (select from: Temporary/won't be extended further/necessary for public safety) and that it's just this one time and they promise they won't go any further...

I trust you'll be so understanding when they limit the Horsepower or CC capacity or your ability to ride a Motorbike altogether.

rastuscat

2nd September 2020, 15:30

That's kinda the point.

The police say that they are stripping away our current liberties due to *insert justification here* but this is (select from: Temporary/won't be extended further/necessary for public safety) and that it's just this one time and they promise they won't go any further...

I trust you'll be so understanding when they limit the Horsepower or CC capacity or your ability to ride a Motorbike altogether.

Thing is, the police don't make the rules. The speed limit is the rule, and hasn't changed.

They have bugger all say in what rules get made.

pritch

2nd September 2020, 15:30

You can find anything if you look -common-causes-for-road-accidents-in-britain (https://www.regtransfers.co.uk/content/common-causes-for-road-accidents-in-britain)

Based on that list we should be hanging pedestrians from speed cameras.

I wasn't looking, I'd read it when BIKE magazine did an article on it. Interesting that speed seems to have dropped one position to eighth now though, in the case of driving too fast for the conditions. Exceeding the speed limit is rated tenth, which is startling when you consider the attention given to it in this country.

TheDemonLord

2nd September 2020, 15:34

Thing is, the police don't make the rules. The speed limit is the rule, and hasn't changed.

They have bugger all say in what rules get made.

Absolutely true....

If we had a proper separation between the Executive and the Legislature like we are supposed to.

Ocean1

2nd September 2020, 16:10

Thing is, the police don't make the rules. The speed limit is the rule, and hasn't changed.

They have bugger all say in what rules get made.

Do they have any say as to whether they bother to investigate burglaries?

FJRider

2nd September 2020, 16:35

Do they have any say as to whether they bother to investigate burglaries?

If you get burgled ... your security measures are obviously not up to the required standard. Thus it's your fault.

Police are very busy. Today five Police officers had to attend a serious complaint of overcharging at a local Cafe.

Police DO have priority tasking requirements in place, and approved procedures must be followed.

People being offended take priority over those being robbed. (and burglars are often armed)

rastuscat

2nd September 2020, 16:42

Do they have any say as to whether they bother to investigate burglaries?

They didn't write or enact the Crimes Act. But they had to change policy when Crusher Collins was the Minister, and jumped up and down about 41's not being attended.

They don't draft or enact the rules, but they do have to decide how they deal with them.

Diggers

2nd September 2020, 16:50

FJRider

2nd September 2020, 16:51

Thing is, the police don't make the rules. The speed limit is the rule, and hasn't changed.

True ... the speed limit RULE('s) haven't changed ... and neither have the "Rules" on tolerance's ... :laugh:

Oh wait ... it is the Officers choice on tolerances given. All a motorist (usually) needs to do to be given tolerance's is to pass the attitude test.

Sounds fair ... after all ... rules aren't really LAW. :shifty:

Oh wait ... They are ... :shutup:

They have bugger all say in what rules get made.

BUT ... lots of "SAY" on WHEN and HOW they are enforced ... :shifty:

Bonez

2nd September 2020, 19:03

Got a camera ticket for 53Km/hr in Ward Street, Upper Hutt.Thank you very much for your kind donation.

Pulling dosh out of your wages without supplying a copy of the infringement office either paper or in pdf format just doesnot seem right at all..

Bonez

2nd September 2020, 19:12

Do they have any say as to whether they bother to investigate burglaries?No problem with that in our neighborhood. When I've reported a burglary, suspicious activity. or anything relatively shady in our street, by either dialing 105 or 111, a pair of popo have arrived within no less than 10 minutes.

It also pays to have the email address and DDI of the the local area field officer to help them out as well. One day Connie and I got a phone to assist in the arrest of a prominent drug/car conversion ring leader. I was fun watching the arrest take place and the arrestee moaning to the popo that he needed to go to work.:laugh:

ellipsis

2nd September 2020, 19:58

Bonez

2nd September 2020, 20:15

...and?...Exacery. KBers have always posted about something they know absolutely nothing about.:lol:

Bonez

2nd September 2020, 20:17

Bonez

2nd September 2020, 20:30

Since January this year riding over Wanavagas way, the Wirerapper, Wellywood, and southern/central Hawkes Bay the MAJORITY of road users are toodling along at 95-100kph. I ride my bikes on main arteries mostly in the 105-120kph depending on weather, traffic volume and road condition, I quite easily pass all that traffic at higher speeds up to around 135kph no problems at all using what we use to call a bit of common sense. Maybe that is why I've only had one ticket in over 40 years of riding a motorcycle.:woohoo:

Ocean1

2nd September 2020, 21:16

Arguing about how the Police work with people who have never been in the Police is 100% pointless. They quite naturally have no idea. Just like I have no idea about working as a builder/mechanic/soldier/etc etc

But you'd feel qualified to comment if your builder didn't actually do what you hired him for?

Not that I'm arguing, the fact that police don't attend burglaries other than those near Bonez place is more or less a given.

And it's perfectly understandable, you can't actually deal with the crime thing if you're all parked at the end of passing lanes preventing instant death.

eldog

2nd September 2020, 21:26

If you get burgled ... your security measures are obviously not up to the required standard. Thus it's your fault.

Police are very busy. Today five Police officers had to attend a serious complaint of overcharging at a local Cafe.

Police DO have priority tasking requirements in place, and approved procedures must be followed.

Were they (:Police:) overcharged for donuts?

pete376403

3rd September 2020, 07:46

Thank you very much for your kind donation.

Pulling dosh out of your wages without supplying a copy of the infringement office either paper or in pdf format just doesnot seem right at all..
Never said they did that - the finance office advise me the ticket has been received and show it to me, I tell them to take it out my pay and sign a form consenting to that. I suppose if the ticket was disputed then there would be some other process to follow but I haven't gone down that path.

Bonez

3rd September 2020, 09:04

Never said they did that - the finance office advise me the ticket has been received and show it to me, I tell them to take it out my pay and sign a form consenting to that. I suppose if the ticket was disputed then there would be some other process to follow but I haven't gone down that path.Why did you not get a photo copy of the infringement notice there and then?

roogazza

3rd September 2020, 11:11

Bonez

3rd September 2020, 11:15

Make no mistake,it's Govt that come up with these crazy ideas.
The poor old coppers are supposed to enforce the shit thats passed down... (if they can be bothered !)

If we can get rid of the crazy bitch Genter by voting anti Toothfairy, things may improve.
(until then folks, pick your moments for a quick fang.):msn-wink:And their are quite a few areas to do that but one does need simple ol common sense though :msn-wink:

If you have an obnoxiously loud exhaust and get caught then tough luck buddy.:bleh:

TheDemonLord

3rd September 2020, 11:38

Make no mistake,it's Govt that come up with these crazy ideas.
The poor old coppers are supposed to enforce the shit thats passed down... (if they can be bothered !)

If we can get rid of the crazy bitch Genter by voting anti Toothfairy, things may improve.
(until then folks, pick your moments for a quick fang.):msn-wink:

There's a slight point of Contention - I agree that the rank and file Officer is merely 'following orders' - however the Police Senior Management have become blatantly political in recent years and are working in concert with the Government, as opposed to have a proper separation of powers between the Judiciary, Legislature and the Executive.

rastuscat

3rd September 2020, 13:14

There's a slight point of Contention - I agree that the rank and file Officer is merely 'following orders' - however the Police Senior Management have become blatantly political in recent years and are working in concert with the Government, as opposed to have a proper separation of powers between the Judiciary, Legislature and the Executive.

NZTA have been wanting the Popo to get hard on speed for years. There just hasn't been the will to do it.

Now that it's coming closer to reality, someone in NZTA will be happier.

TheDemonLord

3rd September 2020, 13:22

NZTA have been wanting the Popo to get hard on speed for years. There just hasn't been the will to do it.

Now that it's coming closer to reality, someone in NZTA will be happier.

So pretty much all the Political Whores finally got a complicit government.

Scuba_Steve

3rd September 2020, 15:30

NZTA have been wanting the Popo to get hard on speed for years. There just hasn't been the will to do it.

Now that it's coming closer to reality, someone in NZTA will be happier.

You know the funny thing about road enforcement tho, it's no-ones job.
Being Govt they all blame each other. Police claim it to be NZTA/Minister, NZTA say it's the Police/Minister/Contractors & Minister say's it's all on the Police/NZTA
Never anyone's responsibility when it comes to Govt, always blame someone/something else

rastuscat

3rd September 2020, 15:44

You know the funny thing about road enforcement tho, it's no-ones job.
Being Govt they all blame each other. Police claim it to be NZTA/Minister, NZTA say it's the Police/Minister/Contractors & Minister say's it's all on the Police/NZTA
Never anyone's responsibility when it comes to Govt, always blame someone/something else

Educators expect engineers and enforcers to fix road safety.

Engineers expect educators and enforcers to fix road safety.

Enforcers expect educators and engineers to fix road safety.

I hear ya Skoober.

Blackbird

3rd September 2020, 16:08

Educators expect engineers and enforcers to fix road safety.

Engineers expect educators and enforcers to fix road safety.

Enforcers expect educators and engineers to fix road safety.

I hear ya Skoober.

Missed one......

And many riders and drivers think that road safety is everyone else's problem but theirs :innocent:

rastuscat

3rd September 2020, 16:13

Missed one......

And many riders and drivers think that road safety is everyone else's problem but theirs :innocent:

You married? Do ya wanna be?

Blackbird

3rd September 2020, 16:18

You married? Do ya wanna be?

:killingme:killingme:killingme:killingme:killingme Just celebrated 48 years. I have no idea how she puts up with me

FJRider

3rd September 2020, 16:20

Arguing about how the Police work with people who have never been in the Police is 100% pointless. They quite naturally have no idea. Just like I have no idea about working as a builder/mechanic/soldier/etc etc

We are not arguing about how :Police: work ... We are talking about how :Police: have been observed "Working" ... and (for some on here) have seen on a regular basis ... :laugh:

However ... not all officers have the same attitude to road policing policies ... and thank fuck for that.

And the "I'm only doing my job" attitude isn't always the most sensible/intelligent comment and attitude for a 3 km/hr over the posted limit ticket.

Bonez

3rd September 2020, 16:43

:killingme:killingme:killingme:killingme:killingme Just celebrated 48 years. I have no idea how she puts up with me
Congrats. Connie and I celebrate 28 years of putting up with each other today :msn-wink:

Blackbird

3rd September 2020, 16:48

Congrats. Connie and I celebrate 28 years of putting up with each other today :msn-wink:

Congrats back! When I recently said to Jennie that I didn't know what she saw in me back then. She said she didn't either - cow :weep:

FJRider

3rd September 2020, 17:01

Educators expect engineers and enforcers to fix road safety.

Engineers expect educators and enforcers to fix road safety.

Enforcers expect educators and engineers to fix road safety.

I hear ya Skoober.

Educators Teach ... They teach things they are qualified to teach. Those that choose not to learn ... is not their problem. As an instructor ... YOU should be well aware of THAT. WHERE (and how) the "Educators" got their education from matters most.

Engineers build things as per required in policy and practice. How people use the things they build is the choice of those that use them, and NOT the fault of ANY engineer if they choose to disregard the laws (and common sense) regarding their use.

Enforcers do their job (of enforcing the laws) as they best see fit. What they expect/hope/ask for is not always going to happen. Nor is it part of their job description to argue it. They probably even know that before they ask.

Whatever (and however) it is taught, built or enforced ... it just can't always cope with just plain common stupid.

Murray

3rd September 2020, 19:11

I ride my bikes on main arteries mostly in the 105-120kph depending on weather, traffic volume and road condition, I quite easily pass all that traffic at higher speeds up to around 135kph no problems at all using what we use to call a bit of common sense. Maybe that is why I've only had one ticket in over 40 years of riding a motorcycle.:woohoo:

Well good luck - this 135kph no problems my lead to loss of license now!

Bonez

3rd September 2020, 19:24

Well good luck - this 135kph no problems my lead to loss of license now!I think I did mentioned common sense didn't I? Like no vehicles ahead parked on the side of the road. No white or brownish cars with what appears to be low roof racks on their roofs approaching. Completely clear road ahead and no traffic for miles. Would you like me to go on....................?

You see my long range vision has improved as I've gotten older.

Dropping 15kph is easy-just drop down a gear and off the throttle. No front or back break required. It's what we oldies call engine braking.

jellywrestler

3rd September 2020, 20:07

I think I did mentioned common sense didn't I? Like no vehicles ahead parked on the side of the road. No white or brownish cars with what appears to be low roof racks on their roofs approaching. Completely clear road ahead and no traffic for miles. Would you like me to go on....................?

You see my long range vision has improved as I've gotten older.

Dropping 15kph is easy-just drop down a gear and off the throttle. No front or back break required. It's what we oldies call engine braking.

there were a couple of teenagers lurking on the bridge by home tonight, radioing cell phone users ahead to some other coppers and they had a nice long line of people pulled over. I'm sure the constabulary can hide if they want to.

Bonez

3rd September 2020, 20:26

there were a couple of teenagers lurking on the bridge by home tonight, radioing cell phone users ahead to some other coppers and they had a nice long line of people pulled over. I'm sure the constabulary can hide if they want to.I'm sure that they could but you are talking about near built up areas I'm guessing so easy captures,

Did the teenagers have any kind of speed detection device and what will the popo charge those pulled over with?

I generally travel on the least used roads anyway. Far more interesting and generally just at a moderate pace. There is the possibility of Dave Kirk getting me around Dannivagas way though. Haven't seen him in years.

rastuscat

3rd September 2020, 20:42

Educators Teach ... They teach things they are qualified to teach. Those that choose not to learn ... is not their problem. As an instructor ... YOU should be well aware of THAT. WHERE (and how) the "Educators" got their education from matters most.

Engineers build things as per required in policy and practice. How people use the things they build is the choice of those that use them, and NOT the fault of ANY engineer if they choose to disregard the laws (and common sense) regarding their use.

Enforcers do their job (of enforcing the laws) as they best see fit. What they expect/hope/ask for is not always going to happen. Nor is it part of their job description to argue it. They probably even know that before they ask.

Whatever (and however) it is taught, built or enforced ... it just can't always cope with just plain common stupid.

I've worked in enforcement. Everyone I worked with thought driver education needed to be better, and that roads needed to be better.

I now work in driver/rider education. I think roads need to improve, and enforcement needs to get better.

I'm seeing a pattern here.

jellywrestler

3rd September 2020, 21:25

I'm sure that they could but you are talking about near built up areas I'm guessing so easy captures,

Did the teenagers have any kind of speed detection device and what will the popo charge those pulled over with?

I generally travel on the least used roads anyway. Far more interesting and generally just at a moderate pace. There is the possibility of Dave Kirk getting me around Dannivagas way though. Haven't seen him in years.

it was rush hour and nothing more than five km's, they looked like they were sussing out cell phone users or maybe safety belts

eldog

3rd September 2020, 21:32

it was rush hour and nothing more than five km's, they looked like they were sussing out cell phone users or maybe safety belts

I use my cell phone with a navigation app, often wondered if that constitutes cell phone usage?
although I now have a Bluetooth ear connection I can’t make calls (no microphone)

an aside, yes the app can and does get confused, i now use it to navigate from point A to B rather than the whole trip.

The :Police: enforce the law, for some reason most don’t think it appropriate to make suggestions about how to fix things so that laws don’t get broken.

Bonez

4th September 2020, 06:42

Congrats back! When I recently said to Jennie that I didn't know what she saw in me back then. She said she didn't either - cow :weep:I get a similar response from Connie and we commonly refer to each other as bitch and bastard.

Of course we a both are very very happy when I go for a days motorcycle ride:laugh:

Autech

4th September 2020, 11:29

there were a couple of teenagers lurking on the bridge by home tonight, radioing cell phone users ahead to some other coppers and they had a nice long line of people pulled over. I'm sure the constabulary can hide if they want to.They tried that once upon a time. We were in a convoy of vehicles heading out to a quiet spot for a bit of rapid acceleration side by side.
I was in the lead and noticed some muftis down a side street no lights on waiting for such an occasion.
I pulled everyone over in a park and we all got out and had a chat, 5 mins later the 2 muftis went flying by without their beacons on obviously hoping to catch us in the act.
We gave it another 20 and went to said spot and had a good nights fun. Well played us.

Another time the Aucklanders had come down for an "Invasion".
Was a Friday night and not a cop in sight on T straight. We were parked up meanwhile the idiots were doing full on arm drop races on the main streets on Hamilton. Something smelled fishy and sure enough out of nowhere cops came from everywhere, like a scene from an movie. Shut the whole place down and started VTNZ manned checkpoints everywhere. So many tickets and pink sticker'
s as no one could move without the Police checking them. Well played them :D

Sent from my SM-A730F using Tapatalk

release_the_bees

4th September 2020, 14:19

I just came across this throwaway statement in an otherwise unrelated article. Has anyone heard anything about this and what they're specifically focusing on?

"In line with police focusing on motorcyclists this month, a number of motorcyclist were also pulled over and spoken to"

This was in the following otherwise unrelated article:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12362292

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george formby

4th September 2020, 14:50

Dental Hygiene? :sherlock:

pritch

4th September 2020, 15:49

Dental Hygiene? :sherlock:

Or to hide the alcohol fumes.

Bonez

4th September 2020, 16:29

Or to hide the alcohol fumes.Have you been drinking mentholated spirits again pritch?:innocent:

R650R

4th September 2020, 17:02

Care to share whatever drugs you're on ?

Truthician 2020mg, it’s dangerous stuff you can only take in small doses for most people.
Take as needed visually or audibly.
Free version available in local library in history section.

Berries

4th September 2020, 19:03

I just came across this throwaway statement in an otherwise unrelated article. Has anyone heard anything about this and what they're specifically focusing on?

"In line with police focusing on motorcyclists this month, a number of motorcyclist were also pulled over and spoken to"
Just a Dunedin thing, same story here - https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/distracted-dunedin-driver-told-brush-road-rules.

Would actually like to get stopped to see what being "spoken to" entails but I have not seen them anywhere this week. I imagine they have found another box of ACC hi-vis vests they need to get rid of.

rastuscat

4th September 2020, 19:42

I quite like the road policing stories in the paper. It's the only time I ever see road policing actually happening.

eldog

4th September 2020, 19:54

I quite like the road policing stories in the paper. It's the only time I ever see road policing actually happening.

dont worry it’s happening, maybe not how you would like it.

speeding too prevelant and or easy to enforce compared to other functions.

actually having the public acknowledge that they are ultimately responsible-too hard.

i accept risk when I am on the road, it’s upto me, but then there are lots of other users and furniture I have to contend with as well.

i don’t mind tougher if your a complete idiot and endanger others, but if you are on your own then it’s your neck on the line.

when I have others who I care about in the vehicle, my driving improves.

seen plenty of tougher actions, but ocassionally making zero tolerance will get people’s backs up. Need to strike a balance and not be too zealous

jellywrestler

4th September 2020, 20:36

Just a Dunedin thing, same story here - https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/distracted-dunedin-driver-told-brush-road-rules.

Would actually like to get stopped to see what being "spoken to" entails but I have not seen them anywhere this week. I imagine they have found another box of ACC hi-vis vests they need to get rid of.

And how is brushing ones teeth any differnt to lighting and smoking a cigarette, eating a pie, or a burger, drinking a hot coffee, or milo, talking to passengers, sorting out the stereo? It must be a low news day and they need to make something out of nothing.
If the guy was doing something illiegal then they should have been given a ticket simply.

FJRider

5th September 2020, 18:17

I've worked in enforcement. Everyone I worked with thought driver education needed to be better, and that roads needed to be better.

I now work in driver/rider education. I think roads need to improve, and enforcement needs to get better.

I'm seeing a pattern here.

Driver education ??? you mean more advertisements on the tv on the simple things like ... don't drink and drive ... give way at give way signs ... and my old favourite one about the requirement that you need to stop at stop signs. Who knew ... ???

A few more billboards about how wise it is to wear (and fasten) their seat-belt.

I wont even mention speeding dangers needing more mention ... oop's I did ..

It's the simple things killing the people on our roads ... and it's been happening since the days of the horse and cart.

I bet every driver on the road knows somebody (be friend, family member, or a complete stranger) that they saw the accident report for, be it on TV or in the papers. So you can't tell me those that died on the roads ... didn't know it was dangerous.

The large majority of road accidents are caused by a driver doing something on the road that was bloody stupid.

In all the years of road enforcement ... all the enforcers wanted "More education on the dangers of road travel" ... and the "education" is
largely ignored.

And people are still dying on the "Better" roads. It is really murder out there. Kill a family on the road and you get a few years in jail. THAT fact is the "Education" people know.

Gremlin

5th September 2020, 19:27

I just came across this throwaway statement in an otherwise unrelated article. Has anyone heard anything about this and what they're specifically focusing on?

"In line with police focusing on motorcyclists this month, a number of motorcyclist were also pulled over and spoken to"
The last few years there was a campaign for September being Motorcycle Awareness Month, yellow banners people could put on FB profile pics etc etc. However, the website isn't up, and the domain is pending release, so looks like it's not happening this year. www.motorcycleawareness.co.nz

FJRider

5th September 2020, 20:28

I quite like the road policing stories in the paper. It's the only time I ever see road policing actually happening.

Perhaps it's time then for road policing policies and practices were changed then. The current ones aren't working or even (apparently) noticed by even the former enforcement members. .. Has it changed much since you were in the job .. ???

Perhaps instead of (or as well as) a fine ... a period of road safety courses pertinent to their offenses. Or jail.

And if they're sent to jail ... make them do the road safety courses in jail. I'm sure they'll remember then.

Funding and education ... win win all round ... :laugh:

R650R

5th September 2020, 21:03

R650R

5th September 2020, 21:15

And how is brushing ones teeth any differnt to lighting and smoking a cigarette, eating a pie, or a burger, drinking a hot coffee, or milo, talking to passengers, sorting out the stereo? It must be a low news day and they need to make something out of nothing.
If the guy was doing something illiegal then they should have been given a ticket simply.

I think half the distraction is people hiding the activity and looking for cops instead of driving.
People that txt n drive now hide their phone in lap looking down.
In the good ol days you could hold it in front of you FEEL the key pad and reply yes no or ok while still looking at the road.

I do know of several professional truck drivers that have rolled units over reaching across cab for sandwiches etc.... There’s one crash spot on Taupo Rd that suspiciously coincides with the same time where you would finish eating a burger or cheese and onion toastie at 2am....

I remember my professional trainer when doing car licence deliberately having non car conversations and telling me to enjoy the scenery as being super focused on just the road is fatiguing in itself. And he is right.

We live in a world of Karen’s tho so we all be doing something wrong lol

MarkH

6th September 2020, 07:48

The vast majority of people who get tickets at 55 on a 50 kmh area, their speed would have been reading closer to 60 at the time they were checked. Not that anyone ever admits that.

I'm not sure what the speedo reading has to do with anything, no one is obliged to have their speedo reading matching the speed limit.

In my car I travel on the open road with the cruise control set at 110kph (indicated) which means that I'm travelling at 100kph (actual) which makes seeing a police car much less stressful. In every vehicle I use I always check the speedo against a GPS reading of the speed, just so that I know what my real speed is. My car over-reads by 10%, my mother's car over-reads by 4-5%, my motorcycle over-reads by ~7%, etc.

Bonez

6th September 2020, 08:22

Well Good on him I say....

Cause as a previous long distance trucker on some of our worst roads, that mr and mrs average
With bikes on the back usually do dumb passing moves whilst no doubt fatigued from a ‘race’ on public roads in another town some distance away.
The flasher the SUV the more entitled to overtake in dumb places.
I'm not suggesting you are fibbing but we really need some context here.

How many years ago was that? And did the magority of those passing in an unsafe manner occur?

As I've mentioned the MAJORITY of traffic I've come across is doing 95-100kph on the open. I have never seen that sort of passing in the last eight months of being back on a m/c and having ridden around 3/4s of open (not including residential )roads in the lower North Island. In that time I've seen motorcyclists pass truck/trailer units or a long line of traffic at what I would consider stupid places. In those cases I back waaaay off in case an "incident" happens.

Oh and were you traveling at 95kph as per NZ Transport regulations when this dangerous passing occurred?

R650R

6th September 2020, 09:19

I'm not sure what the speedo reading has to do with anything, no one is obliged to have their speedo reading matching the speed limit.

In my car I travel on the open road with the cruise control set at 110kph (indicated) which means that I'm travelling at 100kph (actual) which makes seeing a police car much less stressful. In every vehicle I use I always check the speedo against a GPS reading of the speed, just so that I know what my real speed is. My car over-reads by 10%, my mother's car over-reads by 4-5%, my motorcycle over-reads by ~7%, etc.

End of the Day whatcthe cops radar says is all that matters.

NEVER ever tell a cop you have a GPS device if disputing ticket. Most of them have some tattle tale data recording buried in them and gives probable cause for them to seize the records.
A truckie mate found this out hard way, disputing 98 vs 96 which still would have been same ticket.
They downloaded 300 Violations, lucky for him they messed up the court case.

R650R

6th September 2020, 09:28

I'm not suggesting you are fibbing but we really need some context here.

How many years ago was that? And did the magority of those passing in an unsafe manner occur?

As I've mentioned the MAJORITY of traffic I've come across is doing 95-100kph on the open. I have never seen that sort of passing in the last eight months of being back on a m/c and having ridden around 3/4s of open (not including residential )roads in the lower North Island. In that time I've seen motorcyclists pass truck/trailer units or a long line of traffic at what I would consider stupid places. In those cases I back waaaay off in case an "incident" happens.

Oh and were you traveling at 95kph as per NZ Transport regulations when this dangerous passing occurred?

As I’m not a govt dept I do not respond to freedom of information act requests on past events. In this case I will entertain you.
The limit is actually 90 and I was usually travelling g well below that when LETTING people past in SAFE areas, But there’s always one muppet coming from way back doing about 140 that has to come past regardless of safety of other people.
You must have rose tinted windscreens in your part of the country.
The Aussie dashcams youtube channel has a good cross section of the dangerous things truckie encounter daily.
While the average joe might see something really mind blowingly stupid once a year a truckie would see that stuff at least weekly doing over 3000km a week easily.

Bonez

6th September 2020, 09:37

As I’m not a govt dept I do not respond to freedom of information act requests on past events. In this case I will entertain you.
The limit is actually 90 and I was usually travelling g well below that when LETTING people past in SAFE areas, But there’s always one muppet coming from way back doing about 140 that has to come past regardless of safety of other people.
You must have rose tinted windscreens in your part of the country.
The Aussie dashcams youtube channel has a good cross section of the dangerous things truckie encounter daily.
While the average joe might see something really mind blowingly stupid once a year a truckie would see that stuff at least weekly doing over 3000km a week easily.Not at all. Yes there are a "few" drivers that act that way but not ALL of them. Which is the point I'm making whether you like it or not.

How did you know the exact speed of the driver in your example? Did you have a speed mesuring device on the back of your truck?

You are definitely one eyed not unlike those riders who always refer to cars as tin tops or cages. Which I have done when I was younger.

I see a pattern here....

MarkH

6th September 2020, 10:21

NEVER ever tell a cop you have a GPS device if disputing ticket. Most of them have some tattle tale data recording buried in them and gives probable cause for them to seize the records.

Well, I know the way home from work without needing a GPS. The last time I went somewhere else in the car and did use GPS I again confirmed that the car over-reads by 10%. It just means that when I'm in the car and it tells me the speed, I do a simple mental calculation to interpret what it says - 110 means 100, 55 means 50, 77 means 70, etc. So if a speed sign I pass says 70 then to be within the law I should do no more than 77 on my speedo and once I hit an open road speed limit area then I'm OK up to 110 on the speedo.

I definitely wouldn't want to hand over a GPS to the police for them to have a snoop through.

rastuscat

6th September 2020, 18:07

The last few years there was a campaign for September being Motorcycle Awareness Month, yellow banners people could put on FB profile pics etc etc. However, the website isn't up, and the domain is pending release, so looks like it's not happening this year. www.motorcycleawareness.co.nz

We had a plan for regional events, but Level 2 put paid to that.

We are now onto Plan F the previous ones having been overtaken by the pandemic.

Autech

6th September 2020, 18:14

I'd say with 50% more courtesy on the road the toll would go down quite alot.
Every single time i go out I come across some numpty who does 70 through the mildly twisty bits them straight up to 110 every section you are able to overtake.
That leads poor old Autech to roll the dice, either get stuck behind or drop it a few gears and do the speed required to overtake and hope like hell there is no cop waiting ahead to ping me.
My folks taught me when I was learning to drive to have the foot buried until you're back in you own lane. As I've gotten faster cars I'm a bit gentler on the gas to not hit lose your license speeds by the end of the maneuver.
What would be amazing is if they'd look back and think, that guys clearly more comfortable than me on these roads, I'll just lay off the gas next straight and we both can be on our merry way... That's what I do when towing why can't others?
Wishful thinking. Maybe a road campaign teaching to be courteous would have more effect than "stop speeding or get ticket" that we get all the time.

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ellipsis

6th September 2020, 18:28

We are now onto Plan F the previous ones having been overtaken by the pandemic.

...I hope they were overtaking at the correct speed...

Gremlin

6th September 2020, 19:05

What would be amazing is if they'd look back and think, that guys clearly more comfortable than me on these roads, I'll just lay off the gas next straight and we both can be on our merry way... That's what I do when towing why can't others?
Wishful thinking. ...
No need to get so technical. I was on the Waikato Expressway southbound on Friday night. I slowly catch up to a BMW hatch just before Hampton Downs. Consider whether I should overtake, meh, I caught up, so I'm going quicker, and ease past (two lanes each way).

On the way to the Te Kauwhata interchange I notice him noticeably gaining on me. Doesn't overtake, tailgates me for a while. Finally overtakes by Rangiriri. Fine, you want to go faster, off you go. On the next straights to Ohinewai... I catch up again (I'm trying to keep my speed in a 1-3kph band). I overtake and don't see him again.

So, if they can't even maintain consistent speeds on a freaken expressway...

caspernz

6th September 2020, 20:27

No need to get so technical. I was on the Waikato Expressway southbound on Friday night. I slowly catch up to a BMW hatch just before Hampton Downs. Consider whether I should overtake, meh, I caught up, so I'm going quicker, and ease past (two lanes each way).

On the way to the Te Kauwhata interchange I notice him noticeably gaining on me. Doesn't overtake, tailgates me for a while. Finally overtakes by Rangiriri. Fine, you want to go faster, off you go. On the next straights to Ohinewai... I catch up again (I'm trying to keep my speed in a 1-3kph band). I overtake and don't see him again.

So, if they can't even maintain consistent speeds on a freaken expressway...

That's like a trucker joke. How do you make that slow car in front speed up? Indicate to overtake them and watch them crank it up :eek:

caspernz

6th September 2020, 20:40

Cause as a previous long distance trucker on some of our worst roads, that mr and mrs average
With bikes on the back usually do dumb passing moves whilst no doubt fatigued from a ‘race’ on public roads in another town some distance away.
The flasher the SUV the more entitled to overtake in dumb places.

There's a bit of truth to the maxim of "the flasher the car, the dodgier the driving" and I suspect it's about entitlement.

As a career trucker and trainer, we did a survey at the firm I worked at, of onboard camera activations for a lengthy spell. Nothing fancy, just a tally of the usual nonsense a trucker sees routinely. Overtaking on double yellows, pushing past at end of passing lane when lane has actually ended, overtaking into oncoming traffic, peeling out from sideroads with zero margin for error, you get the gist by now.

So for our national fleet, we found at least 75% of these types of incidents involved a fairly late model high cost car.
Make of that what you wish, I'm just sharing the facts we found.

Scuba_Steve

7th September 2020, 08:24

That's like a trucker joke. How do you make that slow car in front speed up? Indicate to overtake them and watch them crank it up :eek:

I still remember a time when it was trucks holding people up

rastuscat

7th September 2020, 09:16

There's a bit of truth to the maxim of "the flasher the car, the dodgier the driving" and I suspect it's about entitlement.

As a career trucker and trainer, we did a survey at the firm I worked at, of onboard camera activations for a lengthy spell. Nothing fancy, just a tally of the usual nonsense a trucker sees routinely. Overtaking on double yellows, pushing past at end of passing lane when lane has actually ended, overtaking into oncoming traffic, peeling out from sideroads with zero margin for error, you get the gist by now.

So for our national fleet, we found at least 75% of these types of incidents involved a fairly late model high cost car.
Make of that what you wish, I'm just sharing the facts we found.

Facts? Facts? There's no place for facts here.

Autech

7th September 2020, 13:51

Almost every close call I have had recently has been a ute driver unfortunately.

Seems if you buy a Ranger it disconnects your brain in the Waikato

Sent from my SM-A730F using Tapatalk

caspernz

7th September 2020, 19:46

I still remember a time when it was trucks holding people up

So do I, and in fairness the behaviour of bikers and truckers has similarities, the good work done by many is undone by the looney few...:brick:

Facts? Facts? There's no place for facts here.

My apologies Pete, will admit to being mildly surprised when we did the tally. The linehaul boys capture mostly out of town stuff, around town the mix changes, work vans and utes feature prominently there.

Gremlin

7th September 2020, 20:35

I still remember a time when it was trucks holding people up
I feel really sorry for the trucker when I come up behind a long haul rig stuck behind an idiot that struggles to get over 80kph. I find a safe section and nip past, but the truck has no such luxury...

Laava

7th September 2020, 20:37

Almost every close call I have had recently has been a ute driver unfortunately.

Seems if you buy a Ranger it disconnects your brain in the Waikato

Sent from my SM-A730F using Tapatalk
I peeled the R off mine!:devil2::devil2:

Kickaha

8th September 2020, 07:35

I feel really sorry for the trucker when I come up behind a long haul rig stuck behind an idiot that struggles to get over 80kph. I find a safe section and nip past, but the truck has no such luxury...

Several years ago I got a ride Woodend to Picton with a friend of mine who drove it every day towing a B Train, I was surprised how frequently we were held up by car drivers

rastuscat

8th September 2020, 12:45

Several years ago I got a ride Woodend to Picton with a friend of mine who drove it every day towing a B Train, I was surprised how frequently we were held up by car drivers

And that's the difference between a professional driver, and a weekend warrior.

Berries

8th September 2020, 13:00

And that's the difference between a professional driver, and a weekend warrior.
What, that car drivers hold trucks up?

Bonez

8th September 2020, 16:13

R650R

16th September 2020, 19:34

Nice wee toodle today over the Saddle Rd the first truck, a low loader with hydraulic lift. pulled over on a gravel siding letting the eight or so vehicles to go past. The second truck, Hall refrigeration unit. we came across speed up to 80kmh, in a 60kph area in the left lane of the passing lane and almost took out the last car in the cue passing which was in front me. I hit the bakes hard. Had the odd Boi racer or newer sedan pass in stupid places. Other wise it was a good ride today. Most of the road users I come across today were fine apart from traveling way too close behind the vehicle in front.

Shit I almost forgot. There was this dude on a black Honda four who got well ahead of the Hall hauler by passing it on double yellow lines.:cool:

The dude on black Honda will prob get an infringement notice in mail. Most large employers now have dashcams in heavy units as part of OSH and incident reporting. Police welcome forwarding of the footage and post out the bill in mail.

So it’s ok for you and the car in front to be obviously speeding to try and overtake the truck that is speeding. And to be following at an unsafe distance do you have to “hit brakes hard” to avoid being in an incident?

R650R

16th September 2020, 19:57

Several years ago I got a ride Woodend to Picton with a friend of mine who drove it every day towing a B Train, I was surprised how frequently we were held up by car drivers

Yes your average cage (and some bikers sadly) can often not properly read the terrain ahead...
If I had a dollar for every time some muppet braked into an uphill constant radius bend...

Trucks doing same routes often do have an advantage of knowing all the bad bumps and stuff in advance that might unsettle an out of Towner. Then thereÂ’s the priceless unobstructed high rise view from premium cabover euro trucks where you can see through and across corners that are blind to cars.

The twisty waipunga/tarawera sectionnof napierctaupo Rd, you can prob peg the entire section comfortable at 90k in a properlynloaded modern well maintained unit, absent of course a couple of thetighter bends and bad camber spots.
But you get someone in a car who doesnÂ’t drive open Rd often or is admiring the scenery and youÂ’ll be crawling at 55-65 for the whole section.
And god help you if NZTA has switched on the Â“caution winter driving conditions signÂ” at Bayview...
The beauty of these super slow drivers though is they are consistently slow, IÂ’d back off to a 12 sec following distance then compute the time and distance to next safe overtake spot like an F-14 Tomcat missilery system, factoring in their compulsory braking exiting a corner and pull up alongside safely at 90k with perfect timing.
Done with extreme care of course as they are usually oblivious that other people are on the road, but the sound of 32 tyres peeling past usually wakes up most of them.

The best one I ever had though was a boy racer car that overtook me in rain, then begged me to come back past as even at 65-70 k he was still aqua planing on all the big puddles that I had previously been pumping off the road for him... The mass of my truck meant it was safely solidly planted at 90k although even 44ton can wander if it gets bad enough...

caspernz

16th September 2020, 21:27

The dude on black Honda will prob get an infringement notice in mail. Most large employers now have dashcams in heavy units as part of OSH and incident reporting. Police welcome forwarding of the footage and post out the bill in mail.

So it’s ok for you and the car in front to be obviously speeding to try and overtake the truck that is speeding. And to be following at an unsafe distance do you have to “hit brakes hard” to avoid being in an incident?

Not just a dashcam, but GPS to prove location and vehicle speed. The guys love the feedback from their idiot cam footage...:laugh:

rastuscat

18th September 2020, 06:35

The dude on black Honda will prob get an infringement notice in mail. Most large employers now have dashcams in heavy units as part of OSH and incident reporting. Police welcome forwarding of the footage and post out the bill in mail.t?

Fun fact. They can't.

A ticket can only be directly issued to the registered owner of a vehicle if the photo was taken by equipment designated as "approved vehicle surveillance equipment". Speed cameras and red light cameras are approved. Nothing else is certainly not private dash cams.

So the police, if given the footage, have to write a demand for details to the registered owner, who is legally obliged to identify the rider.

Which is too much of a faff for the police. With the proliferation of dash cams and go pros there aren't enough cops in the country to chase every complaint. Even when I got out there was too much footage to.pursue via S.118, and cameras are far more common now.

What you need us a very serious offence, or a friendly cop, who is motivated to follow your footage up.

Simply put, police decide what to follow up based on availability of staff, public interest, the time, place and circumstances factor, and the can-I-be-bothered factor.

It might happen, but often not.

Scuba_Steve

18th September 2020, 07:48

Fun fact. They can't.

A ticket can only be directly issued to the registered owner of a vehicle if the photo was taken by equipment designated as "approved vehicle surveillance equipment". Speed cameras and red light cameras are approved. Nothing else is certainly not private dash cams.

So the police, if given the footage, have to write a demand for details to the registered owner, who is legally obliged to identify the rider.

Which is too much of a faff for the police. With the proliferation of dash cams and go pros there aren't enough cops in the country to chase every complaint. Even when I got out there was too much footage to.pursue via S.118, and cameras are far more common now.

What you need us a very serious offence, or a friendly cop, who is motivated to follow your footage up.

Simply put, police decide what to follow up based on availability of staff, public interest, the time, place and circumstances factor, and the can-I-be-bothered factor.

It might happen, but often not.

So the TL : DR is Police are only interested in easy moneys.

Bonez

18th September 2020, 07:51

So the TL : DR is Police are only interested in easy moneys.The GUMMERMINT gets the money not the police.

Bonez

18th September 2020, 07:54

The dude on black Honda will prob get an infringement notice in mail. Most large employers now have dashcams in heavy units as part of OSH and incident reporting. Police welcome forwarding of the footage and post out the bill in mail.

So it’s ok for you and the car in front to be obviously speeding to try and overtake the truck that is speeding. And to be following at an unsafe distance do you have to “hit brakes hard” to avoid being in an incident?I wasn't following at an unsafe distance nor did I get a ticket Ha ha.. The truck sped up over the legal limit on passing lanes. Get over it.

The fact I had plenty of clearance ment me and the car behind would not be involved in any "incident" caused by the truck driver to the car trying to get passed on a passing lane. I'm sure the nice police officer would've pointed that out if he bothered to make a complaint using video footage as evidence. And half a dozen witnesses in other vehicles whose regos will be on that video footage ;)

rastuscat

18th September 2020, 07:55

So the TL : DR is Police are only interested in easy moneys.

No, they prefer to catch people doing dumb stuff themselves, it's easier than chasing up someone's footage.

Also remember the evidential chain necessary when footage is used. The person using the dash cam would need to come to any court case, as the officer didn't take the footage. Like I said, it's faff factor. It's just more evidentially efficient for the officer to prosecute what they see themselves.

Also remember that the police don't get the money from fines. But that just doesn't resonate with most folk, as it doesn't suit their narrative.

Scuba_Steve

18th September 2020, 10:26

No, they prefer to catch people doing dumb stuff themselves, it's easier than chasing up someone's footage.

Also remember the evidential chain necessary when footage is used. The person using the dash cam would need to come to any court case, as the officer didn't take the footage. Like I said, it's faff factor. It's just more evidentially efficient for the officer to prosecute what they see themselves.

Also remember that the police don't get the money from fines. But that just doesn't resonate with most folk, as it doesn't suit their narrative.

So video footage is no good, but "bro, yea, it happened cause I said so" if acceptable as proof if it's coming from the Police gang?
Police gang get paid to scam & extort people, might not be direct but they get paid alright.
Man I'd hate for our legal system to start operating legally, where would the corruption hide then?

Bonez

18th September 2020, 10:41

So video footage is no good, but "bro, yea, it happened cause I said so" if acceptable as proof if it's coming from the Police gang?
Police gang get paid to scam & extort people, might not be direct but they get paid alright.
Man I'd hate for our legal system to start operating legally, where would the corruption hide then?Fuck you are full of generalisations. Corruption is all over the place not just in GUMMERMENT DEPTS. such as law enforcement. You sound like one of pritchs Antifa peaceful protestors crowd ffs.

Break out of that bubble and put some bifocals on.

FJRider

18th September 2020, 11:19

No, they prefer to catch people doing dumb stuff themselves, it's easier than chasing up someone's footage.

Unless they ask them if they did what they had been reported as doing ... and they admit it. A mention of photographic evidence being given might sway their decision in trying to deny it.

Those getting away with such things only encourages them to do it again. AND AGAIN.

There's more to it than just the Quota ... :shifty:

FJRider

18th September 2020, 12:32

With the proliferation of dash cams and go pros there aren't enough cops in the country to chase every complaint. Even when I got out there was too much footage to.pursue via S.118, and cameras are far more common now.

What you need us a very serious offence, or a friendly cop, who is motivated to follow your footage up.

Simply put, police decide what to follow up based on availability of staff, public interest, the time, place and circumstances factor, and the can-I-be-bothered factor.

It might happen, but often not.

As I understand ... the dash cams were invented simply for the protection of the vehicles driver. To prove innocence of the driver and guilt of the offending vehicle driver for insurance purposes. Yet you say it's not worth the effort and not legally binding evidence for Police. Exceptions being ... in times when it suits ... then it is essential LEGAL (otherwise they couldn't use it) evidence.

Your idea of what is "serious" might differ with the driver that is parked in a house. After trying to avoid hitting another vehicle that failed to give way.

Again ... POLICE Decide what to follow up. Or not.

Public interest .. Really ..??? So ... nothing to do with Laws and Legislation being ignored.

I wasn't aware "Public Interest" was held in such high regard by Police. You learn something new every day.

Job Motivation obviously is not a prerequisite in Policing any more.

Go figure ...