Flag?

[oldrider]

Oh forgot they signed a Treaty with the British, all good.

Were the Pom's really serious or were they just trying to be more than a little patronising after the expense of North America etc? :argue:

[Voltaire]

Were the Pom's really serious or were they just trying to be more than a little patronising after the expense of North America etc? :argue:

Probably might be that the traders had supplied the locals with lots of weapons, and it was going to take some months to get the British Army here.

100 000 Maoris vs a couple of thousand honkies, from memory.

US was probably several million by that time and British would have struggled to beat the Americans.

[Erelyes]

They rigged the vote paper as much as they could by presenting the new flag on the top!

I think I found it.... the most tin foil hat post in this thread.


Has all the debate and discussion around changing the flag etc de-valued the current flag?

Depends on the opinion you hold I guess. I have sure seen more NZ flags around lately. I do wonder why there weren't so many flying before. It's all well and good bleating on about it, but actually demonstrating pride is different. That can only be positive though.

Yet I imagine there are those that will, if the current flag wins, continue to see it for what it is to them: a relic, and as such, best put away except for special occasions.

And if the new flag wins, people will continue to fly the current one (which is good). After all, the Confederate flag still means a lot to some people in the States.

[oldrider]

tinfoil hat?
Derisive attempt on behalf of blind conformists to discredit and stigmatise those who dare to question authority.
I.E. "You honestly believe the war is all about oil? Where's your tinfoil hat?"

Lets be very clear - I don't wear a tinfoil hat - I wear a tinfoil "sombrero" with pride! :niceone: - Chuck all the shit you like :whocares: it's really all about you anyway! :whistle:

[Berries]

Poms and honkies on the same page eh?

I wonder if the same questions would be asked if the Portuguese had staked their claim on this particular landmass?

[idb]

I don't know why you would spoil your vote if you were voting as well, I can understand if you are not voting.

I am not voting and can't be arsed spoiling the papers so they went in the bin. Should have thought along these lines - usual Stuff shit. (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/77577682/protesters-attempt-to-sell-flag-referendum-vote-on-trade-me-fails)

Why aren't you voting?

[James Deuce]

Probably might be that the traders had supplied the locals with lots of weapons, and it was going to take some months to get the British Army here.

100 000 Maoris vs a couple of thousand honkies, from memory.

US was probably several million by that time and British would have struggled to beat the Americans.

The British Army wasn't that big pre-WW1, maybe 80,000 professional soldiers and the navy could field about 5000 Marines.

There is no way in hell Maori could have sustained 100,000 frontline troops for more than 3 months and certainly not all in one place. The big issue they faced was their manpower was needed to provide food and infrastructure as well as fight and their concept of "war" was vastly different to the Brits and did not involve killing as many people as possible.

This led to Kawiti (http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/biographies/1k4/kawiti-te-ruki)devising strategic forts miles from anywhere so 5 Maori blokes could drag 2000 British blokes into difficult bush terrain and make them sustain unreasonable casualty figures, just from cannons rolling over the feet of the people pushing them. Kawiti continually outfought the British and only engaged them openly once and learned from his mistake even though it was a Maori victory. Concepts like shielded firing positions, trenches, and bunkers were all learned from Kawiti and incorporated into future engagements for the Brits.

[Oscar]

The British Army wasn't that big pre-WW1, maybe 80,000 professional soldiers and the navy could field about 5000 Marines.

There is no way in hell Maori could have sustained 100,000 frontline troops for more than 3 months and certainly not all in one place. The big issue they faced was their manpower was needed to provide food and infrastructure as well as fight and their concept of "war" was vastly different to the Brits and did not involve killing as many people as possible.

This led to Kawiti (http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/biographies/1k4/kawiti-te-ruki)devising strategic forts miles from anywhere so 5 Maori blokes could drag 2000 British blokes into difficult bush terrain and make them sustain unreasonable casualty figures, just from cannons rolling over the feet of the people pushing them. Kawiti continually outfought the British and only engaged them openly once and learned from his mistake even though it was a Maori victory. Concepts like shielded firing positions, trenches, and bunkers were all learned from Kawiti and incorporated into future engagements for the Brits.

Ah, the old James Belich theory that Maori invented trench warfare?
And his other one - that Maori fought off the strength of the British Empire?

Trench warfare goes back to the Romans, at least.
As for "the Brits" as you call them - they were likely to be Sydney Militia.
Not exactly the cream of the British Army.

[James Deuce]

Ah, the old James Belich theory that Maori invented trench warfare?
And his other one - that Maori fought off the strength of the British Empire?

Trench warfare goes back to the Romans, at least.
As for "the Brits" as you call them - they were likely to be Sydney Militia.
Not exactly the cream of the British Army.
Nope, not trench warfare as a new concept. Strategic forts with firing positions at the base of the wall, not on top of it. It was not a "normal" fuzzy wuzzy tactic.

The point you make about the Sydney Militia is exactly my point. The Brits had little capability or desire to send professional British Army units to the other side of the world. They sent expendable plonkers to command colonial militia units. Sikhs at the time were Brits, as were Australians and Kiwis, so that point is moot.

[trufflebutter]

The British Army wasn't that big pre-WW1, maybe 80,000 professional soldiers and the navy could field about 5000 Marines.

There is no way in hell Maori could have sustained 100,000 frontline troops for more than 3 months and certainly not all in one place. The big issue they faced was their manpower was needed to provide food and infrastructure as well as fight and their concept of "war" was vastly different to the Brits and did not involve killing as many people as possible.

This led to Kawiti (http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/biographies/1k4/kawiti-te-ruki)devising strategic forts miles from anywhere so 5 Maori blokes could drag 2000 British blokes into difficult bush terrain and make them sustain unreasonable casualty figures, just from cannons rolling over the feet of the people pushing them. Kawiti continually outfought the British and only engaged them openly once and learned from his mistake even though it was a Maori victory. Concepts like shielded firing positions, trenches, and bunkers were all learned from Kawiti and incorporated into future engagements for the Brits.

80,000 is quite large considering there was bugger all for to them do between 1868 and 1914.

[Banditbandit]

Probably might be that the traders had supplied the locals with lots of weapons, and it was going to take some months to get the British Army here.

100 000 Maoris vs a couple of thousand honkies, from memory.

US was probably several million by that time and British would have struggled to beat the Americans.

They struggled to beat us too .. the wars here ended as both sides fought themselves to a standstill .. no-one actually one ..




The point you make about the Sydney Militia is exactly my point. The Brits had little capability or desire to send professional British Army units to the other side of the world. They sent expendable plonkers to command colonial militia units. Sikhs at the time were Brits, as were Australians and Kiwis, so that point is moot.

The Brits did have a large-ish army .. many of them veterans of India - who had not gone home but were sent out here ..


BRITISH TROOPS IN NEW ZEALAND

After the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi, British troops were stationed in New Zealand in varying numbers from 1840 to 1870 and, until the middle sixties, provided the chief protection for the colonists and bore the brunt of the fighting against the Maoris. The first troops to land in New Zealand were a detachment of the 80th Regiment which arrived from Sydney in April 1840, and 30 years later the last of the Imperial troops to depart were the main body of the 18th (Royal Irish Regiment), in February 1870. Throughout this period of New Zealand's history, British forces other than regiments of the line, served here. These consisted of naval detachments, Royal Marines, Royal Engineers, Royal Artillery, and the Commissariat and the Waggoners (the predecessors of the Royal Army Service Corps).

From a strength of a few hundred men in the early 1840s, the Imperial Government decided in 1847 to maintain, for the time being, 2,000 regular troops in the colony. Over the next 12 or 13 years this number varied, and in 1860 about the time of the outbreak of the first of the later Maori Wars, the strength of the British forces was down to approximately a thousand men. These troops, consisting of the 65th Regiment and detachments of artillery and engineers, were scattered in five different stations, at Auckland, Wellington, Napier, Wanganui, and New Plymouth. By the end of 1865, the Imperial forces in the colony totalled about 10,000 men, consisting of the 12th, 14th, 18th, 40th, 43rd, 50th, 57th, 65th, 68th, and 70th Regiments, two batteries of Field Artillery, and Royal Engineers and Military Train.

http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/1966/british-troops-in-new-zealand

Here's one of the leaders ..


Trevor Chute is said to have been born at Tralee, County Kerry, Ireland, on 31 July 1816, the son of Francis Chute and his wife, Mary Ann Bomford. He entered the army in 1832, served first in the Ceylon Rifles and then in the 70th (Surrey) Regiment, and was a major by 1847. Duty in Ireland in 1848 was followed by the 70th's transfer in 1849 to India, where Chute was promoted to lieutenant colonel and commanded the regiment at Peshawar. Becoming a full colonel in 1854, he organised flying columns for pacification purposes during the Indian mutiny of 1857–58.

Chute arrived in New Zealand in May 1861 with his regiment, which helped to construct the military road from Drury to the Waikato River.

http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/biographies/1c17/chute-trevor

[Banditbandit]

The silver fern was used in the bush to show the track at night , . Also used as bush toilet paper , so we are being led up the garden path to the toilet .:msn-wink:



Hmm .. here are the war graves in Europe .. No flag with the union jack in sight here .. but interesting "logo"

http://www.designassembly.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/ZN-DA-2-graves.jpg

[Akzle]

tinfoil hat?
Derisive attempt on behalf of blind conformists to discredit and stigmatise those who dare to question authority.
I.E. "You honestly believe the war is all about oil? Where's your tinfoil hat?"

Lets be very clear - I don't wear a tinfoil hat - I wear a tinfoil "sombrero" with pride! :niceone: - Chuck all the shit you like :whocares: it's really all about you anyway! :whistle:

:clap:
must spread....

[Voltaire]

[QUOTE=Banditbandit;1130953480]Hmm .. here are the war graves in Europe .. No flag with the union jack in sight here .. but interesting "logo"

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/rednzep/DSC00153_zpsb0a1d801.jpg

Correct.

Here is pic of Tyne Cott near Ypres in Belgium. We found my wife's Grandmothers Brothers grave stone there.

I can't remember what the British grave stones had but don't recall a flag as such.

Saying at these graves were all done in the 1920's when the full horror of " the war to end all wars" struck home.

[Oscar]

Nope, not trench warfare as a new concept. Strategic forts with firing positions at the base of the wall, not on top of it. It was not a "normal" fuzzy wuzzy tactic.

The point you make about the Sydney Militia is exactly my point. The Brits had little capability or desire to send professional British Army units to the other side of the world. They sent expendable plonkers to command colonial militia units. Sikhs at the time were Brits, as were Australians and Kiwis, so that point is moot.

I wasn't having a go at you, just Belich.

[Ocean1]

Sikhs at the time were Brits, as were Australians and Kiwis, so that point is moot.

And if you look at our flag in a couple of months time you'll see most of 'em think they still are.

[gjm]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/71710031/Air-Force-unit-has-been-wearing-one-of-final-four-flags-for-years

The alternative flag actually looks quite good in this context.

[Banditbandit]

I wasn't having a go at you, just Belich.

I didn't know he was a member of this forum ..

[Oscar]

I didn't know he was a member of this forum ..

Very funny.
(sigh) I guess it was my own fault for coming back to a thread in the basement after I'd unsubscribed from them all.

[Erelyes]

tinfoil hat?
Derisive attempt on behalf of blind conformists to discredit and stigmatise those who dare to question authority.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8ukak8P2vY

[Stylo]

But there has been wide spreed talk of people spoiling their vote, which would add weight to those voting (who wont spoil their vote) for the alternative flag.
My personal view is that, the result will closer than most may think.

And remember you're not voting for what the people of NZ want ( won't call you Kiwi's, a Kiwi is a bloody bird. Call me a New Zealander ).

All New Zealanders had this thrown at them from left field from the Prime Minister, his agenda, not ours.

I'd love a new flag but the option leaves me very cold ....

[Ocean1]

And remember you're not voting for what the people of NZ want ( won't call you Kiwi's, a Kiwi is a bloody bird. Call me a New Zealander ).

All New Zealanders had this thrown at them from left field from the Prime Minister, his agenda, not ours.

I'd love a new flag but the option leaves me very cold ....

Could be worse.

Could have been Helen Clarke that proposed the change.

Oh, wait...

[granstar]

An ANZAC historian on tele the other night (missed the name) has a point. R.S.A could well adapt the current Ensign as a commemorative flag should it be ever be outsted (unlikely).

"Of 10,920 Anzac boys who died at Gallipoli and for neither of the two World Wars it was not under the current flag. The Ensign didn’t officially become the flag until April 14, 1954, was rarely even sighted at Gallipoli — or any of the other bloody killing fields that followed on the Western Front. "

ANZAC War graves " Lest We Forget" have a silver fern.

The guy went on how Canada had used the Maple leaf in a flag change over to give the country an own identity and it certainly does. Maybe a kiwi would represent the country better than a fern? What gets me about this flag change is more about how it has been spoon-fed to us without asking more than the actual flag, and the cost!.

http://www.nzflagsolutions.coolnz.net/images/WarGraves.gif

[BrendonF]

Personally the proposed new flag is GAY!! on so many levels. Keep what we have and I am glad our current flag is similar to the Australian flag.

[Erelyes]

Oldrider:

For the purposes of subsection (1), the Electoral Commission must arrange the 2 options on the voting paper in random order. (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2015/0066/latest/DLM6405351.html)

Entirely sensible, although I'm sure someone can still cook up a conspiracy story.

[oldrider]

Oldrider:

For the purposes of subsection (1), the Electoral Commission must arrange the 2 options on the voting paper in random order. (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2015/0066/latest/DLM6405351.html)

Entirely sensible, although I'm sure someone can still cook up a conspiracy story.

Relax - as I have said - to me one flag is as good as the next - I have no problem with either one and will accept the winner regardless.

My only real objection is the expense is unwarranted and driven by what I think are a bunch of trendy time-wasters but if the majority think it is OK - that's progress?

I have already voted by not voting and binning the paper - Que sera sera! - Next trendy exercise will be Republic I suppose! - Rust never sleeps! :facepalm:

[gjm]

Given the proposed "new" flag is all-but identical to something used by NZRAF for the last 4+ years (see post #767), why not adopt this?

http://www.usnzcouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/RNZAF-logo.png

Instantly identifiable, colours nod to history, unlikely to be mistaken for anything else... :)

[mashman]

A target with a Kiwi on it? Sends out the wrong message no :shifty:

[Banditbandit]

Personally the proposed new flag is GAY!! on so many levels. Keep what we have and I am glad our current flag is similar to the Australian flag.

Given that we are celebrating this year the 30th anniversay of the passing of the Homosexual Law reform Bill a gay flag may just fit the bill ... :innocent:


Oldrider:

For the purposes of subsection (1), the Electoral Commission must arrange the 2 options on the voting paper in random order. (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2015/0066/latest/DLM6405351.html)

Entirely sensible, although I'm sure someone can still cook up a conspiracy story.

I thought they were in Alphabetic order - Silver Fern (S First) then Union Jack (U second) :innocent:

[Akzle]

Oldrider:

For the purposes of subsection (1), the Electoral Commission must arrange the 2 options on the voting paper in random order. (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2015/0066/latest/DLM6405351.html)

Entirely sensible, although I'm sure someone can still cook up a conspiracy story.

ecepting, if talkback is to be believed, the "new flag" was ahead of/above "the old flag" in not less than three instances (voting info literature, ballot etc)

[Swoop]

After all, the Confederate flag still means a lot to some people in the States.
Do you mean the Confederate Flag, or the Rebel Flag?
Fuck all Confederate flags are flown.

[Erelyes]

Do you mean the Confederate Flag, or the Rebel Flag?
Fuck all Confederate flags are flown.

Fuck all, but still some. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_display_of_the_Confederate_flag) Not sure what you mean by Rebel flag.

[Berries]

It has a feather on it.

[MarkH]

ecepting, if talkback is to be believed, the "new flag" was ahead of/above "the old flag" in not less than three instances (voting info literature, ballot etc)

Wouldn't it be worse if it wasn't?
If the old flag was first on the voting info but the new flag was first on the ballot then some might get confused (not many of course) so it makes sense to go for consistency.

My suggestion:
If someone votes for the wrong flag then offer them a free sterilisation operation - don't want fuckers that are that dumb to be breeding!
Doesn't work so good if they have already produced offspring, in which case they probably got the right hole by pure blind luck.

[idb]

What does Mike Hosking recommend?

[oldrider]

What does Mike Hosking recommend?

As always - he recommends Mike Hosking! (and or his infallible opinions) :sick:

[gjm]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/12800113_10154005858319595_3302152832882935591_n.j pg?oh=c9982c19b22294bfe03fde0115557d4c&oe=57927966&__gda__=1469143874_bbd70a8a178acd1b9c081639078ca55 5

:clap:

[caseye]

Give that man, woman a recommend, bloody well done that was gjm.
Course I'd not vote for it, but funny and relevant to boot.
Not to stroke too fine a point on it.

[PrincessBandit]

Please God just let it all be over soon!

[JATZ]

Please God just let it all be over soon!
It is... and the people have spoken :yes:

Thank fcuk they made the right choice

[awa355]

This will be a big dent in Key's ego. :yes:

[caseye]

This will be a big dent in Key's ego. :yes:

He should get a proper roasting for even suggesting it. Not on yer nelly Don Key!

[Blackbird]

It is... and the people have spoken :yes:

Thank fcuk they made the right choice

Errr.... Just over 50% have spoken to retain but over 40% voted for change. Could have been the other way round if there had been a better design

[Katman]

I must say, regardless of which way it went, I'd been hoping that the result would be a wider margin.

I suspect there will be a degree of simmering bitterness for a while to come.

[pete376403]

Maybe some "missing' ballots will be found. ;)

"It doesn't matter who votes, it matters who counts the votes." - Uncle Joe Stalin

[Woodman]

Very dissapointing. It was probarbly old people that mostly voted for keeping the old flag. Selfish really.

[bogan]

67% turnout isn't bad either.


Very dissapointing. It was probarbly old people that mostly voted for keeping the old flag. Selfish really.

Give it ten years for a few to shuffle off, then try again.

Given the current prospects of the opposition, it could still be JK at the helm...

[oldrider]

Very dissapointing. It was probarbly old people that mostly voted for keeping the old flag. Selfish really.

Cheeky cunt - that's one very big (probably inaccurate) assumption! - like I assumed (accurately) that it was a forgone conclusion. - I didn't vote on it! :oi-grr:

[AllanB]

Very dissapointing. It was probarbly old people that mostly voted for keeping the old flag. Selfish really.

Define your idea of 'old people'

51? I wanted that traditional sucker gone. As did a high percentage of the voters. Very narrow margin to retain it.


I predict the 'new' flag will be flown in NZ in many places - rematch in ten years and it will race in. Mind you in 10 years I will really be 'old' .....

[idb]

..........

[idb]

.......
320665

[Murray]

If the red and blue one was there probably would have won it!!

[Oakie]

Errr.... Just over 50% have spoken to retain but over 40% voted for change. Could have been the other way round if there had been a better design

Yes ... if 7% went the other way ...

[Katman]

Yes ... if 7% went the other way ...

Wow, you really have got this whole voting thing sussed, haven't you?

[MD]

If the red and blue one was there probably would have won it!!

Yep. I was never keen on a fern flag and when the clearly biased Selection panel narrowed 10,000 submissions down to five variations of identical ferns, my mind was made up to oppose it. If we had to select a fern then the red and blue - a nice nod to the old flag and visually so much better to look at. I saw the two flags flying a while ago and from a distance the blue/black fern one just blends in with the background, had no 'presence' while the red in the Jack stood out proud for miles.

Key shot himself down by not giving us real design choices.

[idb]

Yep. I was never keen on a fern flag and when the clearly biased Selection panel narrowed 10,000 submissions down to five variations of identical ferns, my mind was made up to oppose it. If we had to select a fern then the red and blue - a nice nod to the old flag and visually so much better to look at. I saw the two flags flying a while ago and from a distance the blue/black fern one just blends in with the background, had no 'presence' while the red in the Jack stood out proud for miles.

Key shot himself down by not giving us real design choices.

He wrecked it by injecting himself in the conversation.
It became partly political from that point on.

[Voltaire]

Very dissapointing. It was probarbly old people that mostly voted for keeping the old flag. Selfish really.

Yes us old people and others who don't buy into slick marketing and what some ball kickers and so called media personalities want.

I do wear the Kiwi laser T shirt I got for Xmas though so not a total luddite.

[Voltaire]

Cheeky cunt - that's one very big (probably inaccurate) assumption! - like I assumed (accurately) that it was a forgone conclusion. - I didn't vote on it! :oi-grr:

That's the Zionist's plan to take over the West is people who don't vote.:innocent:

[Woodman]

Define your idea of 'old people'

51? I wanted that traditional sucker gone. As did a high percentage of the voters. Very narrow margin to retain it.


I predict the 'new' flag will be flown in NZ in many places - rematch in ten years and it will race in. Mind you in 10 years I will really be 'old' .....

Yep 51 is very old, anything over half a century is ancient. (hopefully the next 18 months or so go very slowly:shutup:) Agree that the new current one will be toast in ten years.


Yes us old people and others who don't buy into slick marketing and what some ball kickers and so called media personalities want.

I do wear the Kiwi laser T shirt I got for Xmas though so not a total luddite.

Would have been great to be on that flag change board donut though aye?

I didn't give a fat rats on which flag we chose until I saw the old and new flying together, and the old(current) one just looked dowdy.

[ellipsis]

The debate is over for fucks sake, the majority want to retain the old. And we save 500 mill by staying that way.:headbang:

[oldrider]

That's the Zionist's plan to take over the West is people who don't vote.:innocent:

True! - (accepted as tongue in cheek crack at my expressed anti Zionist stance) :laugh:

I didn't vote because I could support either outcome whereas my wife voted to retain - mainly because she was pissed off with the waste of money involved!

As I have said previously - I do feel a mild loss of opportunity to move forward as a nation - but we can still do that without changing our flag!

Adages spring to mind: "Clothes do not maketh the man" - "You can't judge a book by it's cover" - etc etc etc.

The flag issue has not gone away on this result - the pundits have merely been forced to retrench and plan a new attack - rust fuck it - never sleeps! :no:

[Madness]

I just want to say to all those fellow New Zealanders that voted for change and lost; eat shit, motherfuckers!

[Katman]

I think John Key should give himself a pat on the back.

It was quite likely his politicising of the whole affair that swayed 7% to either change their vote or motivated them to vote when they had decided to abstain (that's me).

Suck my cock John.

[Katman]

And then to read his little statement "now a flag has been decided, I encourage all New Zealanders to use it, embrace it and more importantly, be proud of it".

What a fucking patronising hypocritical wanker.

[mada]

JK says "please guys just fly a fwag and fworget about the economy.":killingme

[Oakie]

Wow, you really have got this whole voting thing sussed, haven't you?

Yep. Some will say it was a clear margin but taking 7% out of the status quo and putting those votes in the change camp would have seen the pretender over the line.

[Oakie]

Very dissapointing. It was probarbly old people that mostly voted for keeping the old flag. Selfish really.

Surprisingly, according to that Kiwi poll thing they are running at present, more younguns (18 to 25 I think) voted for status quo rather than change.

[Oakie]

I just want to say to all those fellow New Zealanders that voted for change and lost; eat shit, motherfuckers!

Sorry. Jam on toast for me and i'm feeling fine. I am taking my 85 year old mother shopping tomorrow though...

[Oakie]

Oh I wonder, wonder wonder....

if the unsuccessful flag will now become a popular 'rebel' flag like the old confederate flag in the States.

And then I wonder, wonder, wonder ...

how long it will take before some wowser (and yes I'm looking at you Winston Peters) tries to make it illegal to fly the unsuccesful 'rebel' flag.

The most interesting stuff in this whole debate may be yet to come.

[Oakie]

I think John Key should give himself a pat on the back.

It was quite likely his politicising of the whole affair that swayed 7% to either change their vote or motivated them to vote when they had decided to abstain (that's me).

Suck my cock John.

Hate to agree ... but I agree.

[Oakie]

And then to read his little statement "now a flag has been decided, I encourage all New Zealanders to use it, embrace it and more importantly, be proud of it".

What a fucking patronising hypocritical wanker.

Well he could hardly say the opposite could he. Even a silence would be seen as being petulant.

[bogan]

Well he could hardly say the opposite could he. Even a silence would be seen as being petulant.

He could say any of those things, I mean, what are we going to do, vote for labour next time? :killingme

[Katman]

Well he could hardly say the opposite could he. Even a silence would be seen as being petulant.

It would have been somewhat less hypocritical if he'd had the sense to not flaunt his personal preference on his jacket while performing his role as Prime Minister.

But then again, he's come out looking like a fucking egg - so it's a win/win.

[Oakie]

It would have been somewhat less hypocritical if he'd had the sense to not flaunt his personal preference on his jacket while performing his role as Prime Minister. .

Perhaps he's just being a good loser?

[Reckless]

Perhaps he's just being a good loser?

Id liked to have seen more people vote for the issue of the flag and not for or against John Key?
There was far to much comment going around on it being his thing and not a country thing.
Id have liked the fern to be our symbol, better than a blind bird that only comes out at night lmao.
I reckon a fresh start would have been great for us!
Ah well its over and it prob wont be revisited in my lifetime so onward and upward :msn-wink:

[oldrider]

Give John Key some credit - he never hid his preference and no matter how he behaves now he will get slagged for it especially as he gambled and lost!

Being of the conspiracy theorist persuasion I can not help believing that he had an ulterior motive (such as distraction from TPPA) when he floated the flag change!

I am more concerned with Key's standing to attention and sucking up to American interests than I am about his little flag fetish! :corn:

[Katman]

Give John Key some credit - he never hid his preference

But that's just it John. To avoid politicising the whole issue, he should have.

[mashman]

Give John Key some credit - he never hid his preference and no matter how he behaves now he will get slagged for it especially as he gambled and lost!

Being of the conspiracy theorist persuasion I can not help believing that he had an ulterior motive (such as distraction from TPPA) when he floated the flag change!

I am more concerned with Key's standing to attention and sucking up to American interests than I am about his little flag fetish! :corn:

Wonder how much we'll get for the rights to the flag that never quite was.

[Oakie]

Wonder how much we'll get for the rights to the flag that never quite was.

Interesting. By it losing the referendum, does that mean Mr Lockwood may now make some money out of it by marketing his design?

[mashman]

Interesting. By it losing the referendum, does that mean Mr Lockwood may now make some money out of it by marketing his design?

Likely a knighthood :eek:. I would have thought it belonged to NZ. Who owns the flag... dun dun duuuuuuuun :laugh:

[Wingnut]

But that's just it John. To avoid politicising the whole issue, he should have.

Nail hits head...

[nerrrd]

Ironically now would be the best time to start a proper process for change, while the interest is still high. And leave the pollies out of it completely, make it a popular movement.

Start it off in schools maybe, and then take it from there. There's plenty of time, and despite what JK and others say, with enough support we can change it whenever we like :bleh:.

[carbonhed]

Nail hits head...

Yeah. He should have taken a leaf out of Labour and the Greens playbook and stayed aloof from the process.......... :laugh:

[willytheekid]

FINALLY!!!!...so can we focus on the real issues now this wee flag distraction has passed??


http://thedailyblog.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/meme_obama_wall_street_tpp-1024x576-600x338.png


...or will some of you require more time to realize this was actually just a distraction from the get go!:facepalm:


change the flag :killingme...for wot reason again??:killingme:lol:

[carbonhed]

Well the Brits are delighted we've chosen to keep their flag on our flag...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/newzealand/12203749/Im-proud-that-Kiwis-still-fly-a-flag-for-theold-country.html

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/leaders/article4721122.ece

[Ocean1]

Well the Brits are delighted we've chosen to keep their flag on our flag...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/newzealand/12203749/Im-proud-that-Kiwis-still-fly-a-flag-for-theold-country.html

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/leaders/article4721122.ece

Aye, whatever they thought they were voting for or against the reality is they voted for a flag absolutely synonymous with English colonialism.

No wonder the English are amused. Condescending pricks.

[carbonhed]

Aye, whatever they thought they were voting for or against the reality is they voted for a flag absolutely synonymous with English colonialism.

No wonder the English are amused. Condescending pricks.

Labours policy at the last election was to change the flag... :laugh:

Key Derangement Syndrome strikes again... and a 6% swing would have won it. Dumb motherfuckers.

[Swoop]

The big question now for the fishbone, is "will it disappear as quickly as red-peak"?

Since there was no popular public mandate for change in the beginning, this debacle will simply get put "on-the-tab" of the overseas loans we are accumulating.



And then to read his little statement "now a flag has been decided, I encourage all New Zealanders to use it, embrace it and more importantly, be proud of it".

What a fucking patronising hypocritical wanker.
Back to front logic once again.
For those who have traveled overseas, we will have noticed lots of flags of the nations that we have visited, flying proudly in the streets.
NZ is the opposite.

NZ needs to fly the national flag proudly (whatever colours/symbols it has on it) from every building.

Australia and the USA do this exceptionally well.

[Katman]

Australia and the USA do this exceptionally well.

No, they do jingoism exceptionally well.

Fuck that.

[Swoop]

No, they do jingoism really well.

Fuck that.
So "patriotism" to you, is defined how, exactly?

[Katman]

So "patriotism" to you, is defined how, exactly?

A belief in the integrity of who we are.

[Woodman]

No we do not need any more flag waving in NZ. Its a bit tryhard to me.

[Woodman]

A belief in the integrity of who we are.

Fuck, not often we agree.............

[Swoop]

A belief in the integrity of who we are.

Fuck.


Me.







I believe I might have to award you a half point, for answering an actual question.
I await the adjudicator's final decision.

[Swoop]

A belief in the integrity of who we are.

So, we don't really need any flag then.

Just "believe".



Please don't let the happy-clapping imaginary-friends nutters know this.

[Katman]

Just "believe".

It has to be a belief that has integrity though.

Whoring ourselves to America doesn't count.

[Woodman]

So, we don't really need any flag then.

Just "believe".



Please don't let the happy-clapping imaginary-friends nutters know this.

Don't think katman meant, or said, no flag, just doesn't want it shoved down everyones throat.

[Swoop]

Whoring ourselves to America doesn't count.

Nobody said pimping-out to Uncle Sam.
Simply being more patriotic. We appear to like waving flags (black with a white fishbone seems popular at pointy-ball games) so let's help the flag manufacturers' and wave our national flag!

[Katman]

Nobody said pimping-out to Uncle Sam.
Simply being more patriotic. We appear to like waving flags (black with a white fishbone seems popular at pointy-ball games) so let's help the flag manufacturers' and wave our national flag!

You're still trying to turn it into jingoism.

Fuck that.

[husaberg]

Don't think katman meant, or said, no flag, just doesn't want it shoved down everyones throat.

Judging by Katmans rep comments pretty sure he does want many of the male members of KB anatomy, shoved down his throat.

[bogan]

Nobody said pimping-out to Uncle Sam.
Simply being more patriotic. We appear to like waving flags (black with a white fishbone seems popular at pointy-ball games) so let's help the flag manufacturers' and wave our national flag!
I could fly the palmy city flag for a laugh, would that help?

[Ocean1]

Labours policy at the last election was to change the flag... :laugh:

Key Derangement Syndrome strikes again... and a 6% swing would have won it. Dumb motherfuckers.

Any idea why these labour voters are so keen on the union jack?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/78396606/uk-working-holiday-about-to-get-a-whole-lot-harder-for-many-kiwis

[Voltaire]

Any idea why these labour voters are so keen on the union jack?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/78396606/uk-working-holiday-about-to-get-a-whole-lot-harder-for-many-kiwis

totally man...
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/Flag_of_Hawaii_(1816).svg/2000px-Flag_of_Hawaii_(1816).svg.png

[Grumph]

One surprise for me after the referendum rssults came out was that i live in one of the two electorates in the SI to have voted in favour of change...The ChCh city electorate that did was no surprise, Key could ask residents there to carry suicide vests and they would. But Selwyn is mainly rural - and many, many farming families out here got their start on the land from the postwar resettlement programmes for returned servicemen. Plus most of the long established farming dynasties have a tradition of military service...
Given the RSA's stand on the flag they fought for, where was the loyalty ?

[Woodman]

One surprise for me after the referendum rssults came out was that i live in one of the two electorates in the SI to have voted in favour of change...The ChCh city electorate that did was no surprise, Key could ask residents there to carry suicide vests and they would. But Selwyn is mainly rural - and many, many farming families out here got their start on the land from the postwar resettlement programmes for returned servicemen. Plus most of the long established farming dynasties have a tradition of military service...
Given the RSA's stand on the flag they fought for, where was the loyalty ?

Maybe the war was over 70 years ago and is not as relevant a few generations on.

[Ocean1]

One surprise for me after the referendum rssults came out was that i live in one of the two electorates in the SI to have voted in favour of change...The ChCh city electorate that did was no surprise, Key could ask residents there to carry suicide vests and they would. But Selwyn is mainly rural - and many, many farming families out here got their start on the land from the postwar resettlement programmes for returned servicemen. Plus most of the long established farming dynasties have a tradition of military service...
Given the RSA's stand on the flag they fought for, where was the loyalty ?

Maybe they were the one place in NZ that actually voted on the merits of the available choices.

Rather than the usual twisted tribal popularity contest. http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/78322250/Labour-MP-Sue-Moroney-slammed-for-mean-spirited-Lockwood-flag-attack

Stupid bint.

[Banditbandit]

One surprise for me after the referendum rssults came out was that i live in one of the two electorates in the SI to have voted in favour of change...The ChCh city electorate that did was no surprise, Key could ask residents there to carry suicide vests and they would. But Selwyn is mainly rural - and many, many farming families out here got their start on the land from the postwar resettlement programmes for returned servicemen. Plus most of the long established farming dynasties have a tradition of military service...
Given the RSA's stand on the flag they fought for, where was the loyalty ?

Rural electorates are changing. When I lived in rural Hawke's Bay more than 50% of the people in the area where life-stylers - the farmers sold off parts of their land i.e. one farming family sells five 10-acre blocks - they are now out-numbered five to one ...

That's changing the nature of rural electorates right across the country .. the life-stylers will be less conservative than the farming families ...

Selwyn will include the life-stylers on the Port Hills, across the plains ..

[MarkH]

Given the RSA's stand on the flag they fought for, where was the loyalty ?

Maybe some of those people are smart enough to know that the RSA is full of shit on this issue?
When did ANY New Zealander fight for a flag? The great NZ flag war?
I would put it to you that no NZer has ever fought for our flag and I'd wager that plenty of servicemen and ex-servicemen would be completely OK with NZ changing the flag (had that been the wish of the majority).

[Katman]

Maybe some of those people are smart enough to know that the RSA is full of shit on this issue?
When did ANY New Zealander fight for a flag? The great NZ flag war?
I would put it to you that no NZer has ever fought for our flag and I'd wager that plenty of servicemen and ex-servicemen would be completely OK with NZ changing the flag (had that been the wish of the majority).

It's last week's news.

Get over it.

[Swoop]

Any idea why these labour voters are so keen on the union jack?
Quite simply because of the leftist brainwashing that "Key supports this, so therefore it's bad" approach.

[MarkH]

It's last week's news.

Get over it.

Wow, just how big an idiot are you?
Why the hell are you reading and joining in on this thread?
If you are so over the flag thing then how big a fool would you estimate yourself to be for posting here?

My pet peeve on internet forums:
People that post in a thread to let those in the thread know how little the subject of the thread interests them.
What the hell is up with that?

[Grumph]

That's changing the nature of rural electorates right across the country .. the life-stylers will be less conservative than the farming families ...

The wife's got a meeting with Amy Adams tomorrow - I'll ask her to put that to Amy...

Doubt she'll agree with you....

[bogan]

Maybe some of those people are smart enough to know that the RSA is full of shit on this issue?
When did ANY New Zealander fight for a flag? The great NZ flag war?
I would put it to you that no NZer has ever fought for our flag and I'd wager that plenty of servicemen and ex-servicemen would be completely OK with NZ changing the flag (had that been the wish of the majority).

You might find that's a straw man argument, the RSA have a point in that this flag is what New Zealanders fought under, and to keep it is a sign of respect for their sacrifices.


Wow, just how big an idiot are you?
Why the hell are you reading and joining in on this thread?
If you are so over the flag thing then how big a fool would you estimate yourself to be for posting here?

My pet peeve on internet forums:
People that post in a thread to let those in the thread know how little the subject of the thread interests them.
What the hell is up with that?

Could it be...


... a false flag operation?

[MarkH]

Could it be...


... a false flag operation?

Lol!


You might find that's a straw man argument, the RSA have a point in that this flag is what New Zealanders fought under, and to keep it is a sign of respect for their sacrifices.

That's pretty ridiculous!
Let's honour the sacrifices of men that fought for our freedom by never exercising that freedom?
Did they really hope that we would never change our flag and fight a war to ensure we wouldn't? Of course not!

I have trouble imagining how you could even go about trying to convince people that a way of honouring our fallen soldiers would be by never changing our flag, I'd laugh right in the face of someone telling me that.
Would they not have fought had our flag been different?
Did they really care about the flag or was it their country and fellow countrymen that they were fighting for?
This sounds like the moronic crap that people that hate change would come up with to avoid change.

[Katman]

Lol!



That's pretty ridiculous!
Let's honour the sacrifices of men that fought for our freedom by never exercising that freedom?
Did they really hope that we would never change our flag and fight a war to ensure we wouldn't? Of course not!

I have trouble imagining how you could even go about trying to convince people that a way of honouring our fallen soldiers would be by never changing our flag, I'd laugh right in the face of someone telling me that.
Would they not have fought had our flag been different?
Did they really care about the flag or was it their country and fellow countrymen that they were fighting for?
This sounds like the moronic crap that people that hate change would come up with to avoid change.

Dude, let it go.

[bogan]

Lol!



That's pretty ridiculous!
Let's honour the sacrifices of men that fought for our freedom by never exercising that freedom?
Did they really hope that we would never change our flag and fight a war to ensure we wouldn't? Of course not!

I have trouble imagining how you could even go about trying to convince people that a way of honouring our fallen soldiers would be by never changing our flag, I'd laugh right in the face of someone telling me that.
Would they not have fought had our flag been different?
Did they really care about the flag or was it their country and fellow countrymen that they were fighting for?
This sounds like the moronic crap that people that hate change would come up with to avoid change.

Ahhh, but if we choose not to change the flag, like we did, freedom is still exercised. Remember it was/is an argument against changing the flag, not against being able to choose.

It's not about any muppet going to war for the flag, why do you keep to that strawman? it because they went to a just war, under the flag. The flag was a symbol for them, so to keep that symbol for us, is to honor their sacrifice. Lest we forget.

Obviously this is just one argument against chaning it, and there are many others for changing it (as I voted this way), but lets not fail the democratic process any further by misrepresenting the valid points being made.

[MarkH]

Dude, let it go.

You still posting this thread?
Why?
Why are you so invested in this thread, why can't you let go of this subject?

You should tell everyone you meet that you like to go onto discussion forums and tell people to stop discussing stuff, you know, just to make sure they know what sort of person they have met!

[Katman]

You still posting this thread?
Why?


I'm concerned about your blood pressure.

[MarkH]

Ahhh, but if we choose not to change the flag, like we did, freedom is still exercised. Remember it was/is an argument against changing the flag, not against being able to choose.

It's not about any muppet going to war for the flag, why do you keep to that strawman? it because they went to a just war, under the flag. The flag was a symbol for them, so to keep that symbol for us, is to honor their sacrifice. Lest we forget.

Obviously this is just one argument against chaning it, and there are many others for changing it (as I voted this way), but lets not fail the democratic process any further by misrepresenting the valid points being made.

Sorry dude, but I just happen to disagree with that point and I don't believe that having an opinion in any way fails the democratic process.
I don't believe that changing the flag would dishonour those that fought for this country while we had a previous flag and I don't believe that keeping the flag in any way honours the servicemen that fought for our country.
I don't believe that the soldiers that fought were inspired by our flag and I doubt that they really thought that much about the flag.

The way I see it, this was one of the many mistaken ideas that led to us keeping the old flag, people not wanting to dishonour soldiers or wanting to honour soldiers by keeping the flag.

There have been other countries that changed flags, did they in each case dishonour their fallen soldiers when they did so?
For example: Canada changed flags after WW2 to the current maple leaf design, was that a slap in the face to the soldiers that died in WW1 & WW2?
In my opinion it wasn't.

[bogan]

Sorry dude, but I just happen to disagree with that point and I don't believe that having an opinion in any way fails the democratic process.
I don't believe that changing the flag would dishonour those that fought for this country while we had a previous flag and I don't believe that keeping the flag in any way honours the servicemen that fought for our country.
I don't believe that the soldiers that fought were inspired by our flag and I doubt that they really thought that much about the flag.

The way I see it, this was one of the many mistaken ideas that led to us keeping the old flag, people not wanting to dishonour soldiers or wanting to honour soldiers by keeping the flag.

There have been other countries that changed flags, did they in each case dishonour their fallen soldiers when they did so?
For example: Canada changed flags after WW2 to the current maple leaf design, was that a slap in the face to the soldiers that died in WW1 & WW2?
In my opinion it wasn't.

Of course having an opinion doesn't, misrepresenting the opinions and points other make however, does.

I don't think it dishonors them either, not sure why you bring this up.

The servicemen are literally telling you that keeping the flag is a way to honor them.

It's not a mistaken idea, it's an opinion.

[Tazz]

The way I see it, this was one of the many mistaken ideas that led to us keeping the old flag, people not wanting to dishonour soldiers or wanting to honour soldiers by keeping the flag.

No, no, no. That was just discussion around it all. The main mistake was that it looked like a bag of dicks :lol:

[Moi]

... Canada changed flags after WW2 to the current maple leaf design ...

Canada changed their flag in 1965... that's 20 years after the end of WW2.

What you wrote implies that Canada changed its flag soon after WW2...

Just saying...

[Katman]

For example: Canada changed flags after WW2 to the current maple leaf design, was that a slap in the face to the soldiers that died in WW1 & WW2?
In my opinion it wasn't.

Here's an idea......

Move to Canada.

[James Deuce]

Canada changed their flag in 1965... that's 20 years after the end of WW2.

What you wrote implies that Canada changed its flag soon after WW2...

Just saying...
20 years IS soon. That 19 year old supply clerk was 39 in 1965. 39 is but a kid from my perspective.

[MarkH]

Canada changed their flag in 1965... that's 20 years after the end of WW2.

What you wrote implies that Canada changed its flag soon after WW2...

Just saying...

No, what I wrote STATES that after WWII & WWI (in which many Canadian soldiers died fighting) that country changed their flag.
In what way did I imply any kind of time frame to narrow down from just after the war to yesterday?

[MarkH]

The servicemen are literally telling you that keeping the flag is a way to honor them.


I've only directly spoken to one serviceman, he was in favour of changing the flag.
The RSA never even gave the numbers of how many members favoured a change vs those that favoured keeping the flag.
I don't believe that the RSA speaks for every last member on this matter.

[MarkH]

Here's an idea......

Move to Canada.

Can you elaborate?
Why would/should I move to Canada?
Surely it can't be just because there are idiots like you here, I'm sure there are idiots there too.

[Katman]

I've only directly spoken to one serviceman, he was in favour of changing the flag.


No wonder you're so upset.

[Katman]

Why would/should I move to Canada?


It might help you relax.

[Moi]

Here's an idea......

Move to Canada.


It might help you relax.

... perhaps Quebec?

[Moi]

No, what I wrote STATES that after WWII & WWI (in which many Canadian soldiers died fighting) that country changed their flag.
In what way did I imply any kind of time frame to narrow down from just after the war to yesterday?

Read what I wrote...

[bogan]

I've only directly spoken to one serviceman, he was in favour of changing the flag.
The RSA never even gave the numbers of how many members favoured a change vs those that favoured keeping the flag.
I don't believe that the RSA speaks for every last member on this matter.

Yet, it should still be obvious many are literally telling you that keeping the flag is a way to honor them.

The whole idea of a referendum is to find out how many speak to which point. You can't go and dismiss it just because you don't think the majority agree or some shit.

[ellipsis]

I'm concerned about your blood pressure.


...as am I...

[Erelyes]

I don't believe that changing the flag would dishonour those that fought for this country while we had a previous flag and I don't believe that keeping the flag in any way honours the servicemen that fought for our country.
I don't believe that the soldiers that fought were inspired by our flag and I doubt that they really thought that much about the flag.

I am sure there are returned services who genuinely feel, for one reason or another, that changing the flag insults them. Rather than making me want to support the status quo, it makes me feel sad that they are making & taking it personally.

But rather than stating a case about what flag change would mean to them, one would hope they would think about what the flag change means for us.

See the terrible thing about the RSA view was that there was this undercurrent of an idea that returned services, immediately upon return from service, aquired the right to take everything personally and selfishly from thereon, having 'done their bit'.

Where in actual fact many returned services continued to put their country before themselves.

The other problem with the RSA's view is that they completely ignored the returned servicemen/women who felt excited about the chance for change. And part of that group were probably excited because they were proud to be part of a group who helped keep our country a place where we could vote on a flag, rather than the incumbent leader suddenly deciding to change it at whim. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Germany#Nazi_Germany_and_World_War_II_.281 933.E2.80.9345.29)

[Banditbandit]

Fuck me ..

The referendum was set up to fail ... it failed. It's over - why all this bullshit and argument?


Walk away - turn of your computer and go for a fucking ride or something ...

[oldrider]

Fuck me ..

The referendum was set up to fail ... it failed. It's over - why all this bullshit and argument?


Walk away - turn off your computer and go for a fucking ride or something ...

If there was to be a change I preferred the so called Maori flag! (sorry - computer off switch is knackered and I don't have a bike any more) :thud:

[Banditbandit]

If there was to be a change I preferred the so called Maori flag! (sorry - computer off switch is knackered and I don't have a bike any more) :thud:

Well at least take your Zimmer frame for a walk !!!

[Banditbandit]

But then ...

https://fbcdn-photos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xtp1/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/12472310_1095355957221697_2316216239971558976_n.jp g?oh=0e1398265e36c324e88fbedc9eef0f26&oe=577E7232&__gda__=1468082711_7ebecd0bcf716457cace82d2ae04b54 6

[oldrider]

That doesn't go over too well with all the people waiting for elective surgery in Otago health board region - waiting because of "insufficient" funds!!!! FFS! :mad::angry2::brick:

[carbonhed]

Statistical analysis of the vote.

https://tsimps.wordpress.com/2016/03/25/nz-flag-results-analysis/

Despite it being Labour and the Greens policy to change the flag... the leftie retards voted against it because.... Key Derangement Syndrome.

Thanks for keeping the Union Jack on our flag shitheads.

[ellipsis]

It's over ya dumbfucks, yer kickin a dead fucking horse, it's been done and dusted, the percentages voted and it doesn't fucking matter who was fucking who and who wasn't paying...it's last seasons result already...Rule Britannia...


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/yHNfvJc99YY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Woodman]

It's over ya dumbfucks, yer kickin a dead fucking horse, it's been done and dusted, the percentages voted and it doesn't fucking matter who was fucking who and who wasn't paying...it's last seasons result already...Rule Britannia...


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/yHNfvJc99YY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Oh I dunno, it seems that the majority of New Zealanders prefer to live in the past going by the flag referendum result.:brick:

[carbonhed]

.Rule Britannia...


Yeah but bent double taking the English sausage suits you sweetie :laugh:

[ellipsis]

Yeah but bent double taking the English sausage suits you sweetie :laugh:

...I'm not really sure what that means , ya dickheaded cunt...

[Voltaire]

Oh I dunno, it seems that the majority of New Zealanders prefer to live in the past going by the flag referendum result.:brick:

Your state of the art bikes tend to suggest you voted for the old flag :laugh:

[carbonhed]

...I'm not really sure what that means.

Duh...the story of your life.

[oldrider]

It's over ya dumbfucks, yer kickin a dead fucking horse, it's been done and dusted, the percentages voted and it doesn't fucking matter who was fucking who and who wasn't paying...it's last seasons result already...Rule Britannia...

It's never over until it's over and the fat lady has not yet sung - this is now the never ending story of NZ! - :wait:.........................:corn:

[gsxr]

The time will come for a NZ flag change . That is eminent maybe 10 years.
I voted for the status quo for 2 reasons or maybe more .
I quite like the new design but needed some refinement so even though it was my first choice replacement it was far from what i would prefer in a flag.
The timing of the referendum and the uncertainty over TPPA and the removing of our sovereignty was of concern to me.
I am pleased with the result however I would have no problem with a refined version of the new design being flown at the likes of the Commonwealth or Olympic Games setting NZ aside as a new identity . Refreshingly new.
There was a 12 % differential however when you break that down 6% less for change and 6% more for the status quo.
Maybe there is still room for a compromise somewhere in the interim .

[ellipsis]

Duh...the story of your life.

...hahahaha...cunt...but not a convincing one...

[YellowDog]

The time will come for a NZ flag change . That is eminent maybe 10 years.
I voted for the status quo for 2 reasons or maybe more .
I quite like the new design but needed some refinement so even though it was my first choice replacement it was far from what i would prefer in a flag.
The timing of the referendum and the uncertainty over TPPA and the removing of our sovereignty was of concern to me.
I am pleased with the result however I would have no problem with a refined version of the new design being flown at the likes of the Commonwealth or Olympic Games setting NZ aside as a new identity . Refreshingly new.
There was a 12 % differential however when you break that down 6% less for change and 6% more for the status quo.
Maybe there is still room for a compromise somewhere in the interim .

I let the kids have the votes. I suspect the flag would have changed if there were some reasonable options to choose from. Letting any old 'know nothing moron' design a flag was a mistake. The laser eyed kiwi was something quite special :no: Made the country a laughing stock :o

[mashman]

I let the kids have the votes. I suspect the flag would have changed if there were some reasonable options to choose from. Letting any old 'know nothing moron' design a flag was a mistake. The laser eyed kiwi was something quite special :no: Made the country a laughing stock :o

Us too... but if laser kiwi had have been an options, mine would have voted for it lol. Darned fine flag ;)

[Madness]

One for all the pro-change wankers.

http://www.hauraki.co.nz/video/hauraki-tv/like-mike-why-my-love-for-john-isnt-flagging/

[oldrider]

First the costly waste of money on the flag now we are going to have to stump up to pay for Clark to get another useless non productive UN position! :facepalm:

[Tazz]

You say that like there are useful and productive UN positions to be had out there.

[oldrider]

You say that like there are useful and productive UN positions to be had out there.

My bad - I stand corrected! :spanking:

[Voltaire]

Good old Slimy politicians...
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11619417

The " Change the Flag" mob and JK got some Chinese Donors along for some fund raising Chinese Donors along who apparently have long memories about the British...


"We talked about the treaties the British signed with the Chinese, the Boxer Rebellion, all those sort of points of Chinese history. It's interesting because that sort of thing still comes out. Obviously, the colonisation of Hong Kong.

"All of those things are very recent problems to the Chinese community. To us it's like a while back. One of them commented that the Chinese civilisation has been around for thousands of years so the memory of those things is quite recent."

The Boxer Rebellion was an anti-foreign and anti-Christian uprising between 1899 and 1901 which the British military took a key role in suppressing. It followed the 1842 colonisation of Hong Kong and the 1899 expansion into the New Territories.

"We knew there was support in the Chinese community because of the Union Jack," Mr Holden said.


Talk about selective memories.
That piece of shit Chairman Mao killed between 18 and 45 million and you got to China and he is 'revered' as a Hero.
Taiping Rebellion- 20 million dead
Mr Key and his Donors should just fuck right of to China if they don't like English.

The National Party may have steered NZ thru the seemingly endless GFC but they have sold the future of NZ to foreign ownership whilst lining their own pockets with Rental Properties and Trusts.

Sat Morning rant over.:mad: