Short & sweet summary of the hypocrisy of Syrian situation

[oldrider]

https://southfront.org/washington-is-the-principal-puppet-master-behind-syrian-conflict-syrian-ambassador-to-china/

All wars are bankers wars - say no more it's all there - all one has to do is read it and think a little. :scratch: He who pays the piper calls the tune! :blip:

[oldrider]

Check out this clip (7.52). Whether it's an eye-opener or not is for you to decide. For me one thing is certain - the narrative being pushed by the media & Western politicians regarding Assad is complete & utter baloney. Unlike his detractors in the west, he's an unbelievably popular leader among his people. Drives himself. No huge convoys. No Armoured Cars. No Closed roads. Obeys traffic rules. Stops at TRAFFIC lights. Unheard of by any leader. Especially in a country that is at war for past 7 years. Does this look like someone that kills his Own people? Of course not. There is extra effort on the part of intelligence agencies like MI6 and CIA to wage propaganda and information war in Syria like they have done many decades before - Luke Murray


<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fxjKCN7vS8c" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[oldrider]

Why Is The US Military In Syria?
http://www.investmentwatchblog.com/why-is-the-us-military-in-syria/ :scratch: Interesting to those who may be interested in US participation in the Syrian war. :corn:

Why are they (USA) there and who is Macron's "we"? :confused:

[Swoop]

Has Russia (or Syria) provided any evidence of shooting down missiles yet?
It is interesting to note that previous missiles (GW 1 & 2) there was much propaganda to be made of showing evidence of this happening. We will await any evidence, instead of believing the propaganda from Russia.


Also, it will be interesting to see these 70+ missiles which were shot down...
since the Russians have declared they didn't switch on their air defense missiles as they "were not targeted at Russian installations".


Keep believing the dezinformatsiya sites though.

[oldrider]

Has Russia (or Syria) provided any evidence of shooting down missiles yet?
It is interesting to note that previous missiles (GW 1 & 2) there was much propaganda to be made of showing evidence of this happening. We will await any evidence, instead of believing the propaganda from Russia.


Also, it will be interesting to see these 70+ missiles which were shot down...
since the Russians have declared they didn't switch on their air defense missiles as they "were not targeted at Russian installations".


Keep believing the dezinformatsiya sites though.

Apparently the Syrians shot down the missiles with "old tech" systems - now they are going to re-supply them with more advanced replacements - more threatening to Israeli planes etc! :shifty:

School-yard puff and stuff push and shove - appears to be orchestrated theatre for media and internet fiends (suckers) like me etc! :laugh:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Funny how Old Glenn has done a runner from the thread now....

https://themindunleashed.com/2018/04/doubting-establishment-war-narratives.html

[oldrider]

The U.S. Militarily Is America’s Worst Enemy http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/49318.htm :corn:

[oldrider]

Zionist Warmongers acting it out in Syria? - What about Russia? :scratch:
<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/rcWlnIRXMdo" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Serious serious shit for escalation of wider war? :weird:

[Katman]

https://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2018-04-28/the-west-closes-its-ears-to-douma-testimony/

[Katman]

Has Russia (or Syria) provided any evidence of shooting down missiles yet?
It is interesting to note that previous missiles (GW 1 & 2) there was much propaganda to be made of showing evidence of this happening. We will await any evidence, instead of believing the propaganda from Russia.

Have America, UK or France provided any evidence of the 'alleged' gas attack that led to the missile strike?

Or are you just going to swallow their propaganda without question?

[oldrider]

Syria - Western alliance "conflict" planning team in action assembling their strategy for war with Iran. :tugger:

<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/y0nR0FUzyRI" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Swoop]

Have America, UK or France provided any evidence of the 'alleged' gas attack that led to the missile strike?
Poor strawman approach here.
Can't answer the question of "evidence" of shooting down missiles?



Have you read the UN's stance here? Sadly the cockwombles' in that retarded circle-jerk of bullshit and bureaucracy make a schoolyard argument appear quite sensible, but the French have always had good intel sources.

[Katman]

Poor strawman approach here.

It's not a 'strawman approach' at all.

It's simply pointing out the utter stupidity of nit-picking about how many missiles might have been shot down - while you ignore the fact that there still hasn't been any evidence produced proving that there even was a gas attack in the first place.

[jasonu]

Have America, UK or France provided any evidence of the 'alleged' gas attack that led to the missile strike?

Or are you just going to swallow their propaganda without question?

You are quick to swallow propaganda from anti American sources without question.

[Crasherfromwayback]

You are quick to swallow propaganda from anti American sources without question.

As you are to swallow pro. That, and you're a Trump fan! You don't really have any moral high ground to stand on sorry.

[jasonu]

As you are to swallow pro. That, and you're a Trump fan! You don't really have any moral high ground to stand on sorry.

1. Where did I say I believed one story or the other?

2. When did I ever say I was a trump fan?

[oldrider]

Take away all the emotional bullshit and put an unbiased focus on the constants of world conflict and see what stands out as disproportionate and then simply ask "WHY"? :scratch:

One point that seems to keep popping up? - https://twitter.com/jamesperloff/status/991871910546984960/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.henrymakow.com%2F

[oldrider]

Anti-Iranian Propaganda - same as he told the world about Iraq? :rolleyes:

<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/QRW5IwD7zYw" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[oldrider]

Israel deceive Russia Iran and Syria by colluding with USA and breaking an agreement on plane identification in the Syria sky. (very interesting) War at any price? :rolleyes:

<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/0A2LvXTv9kw" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[oldrider]

Could this be an explanation of the diversionary effect of North Korea USA nuclear war theatrics? :corn:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/jLE9v35EL0s" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[oldrider]

Israel attacks Syria until Syria reacts, forcing Israel (the victim?) to defend it's self? - lets hear it from Bibi? https://twitter.com/jamesperloff/status/994394766841405441/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.henrymakow.com%2F - yeah right! :rolleyes:

[oldrider]

Who is the real threat in the Middle East?

<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/zyL6RvyUd7A" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[oldrider]

Russia has shown its willingness to allow attacks by Israel on the Iranians or Hezbollah http://www.atimes.com/article/missile-attacks-reflect-changing-strategic-landscape/?utm_source=The+Daily+Report&utm_campaign=64036267f2-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_05_11&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_1f8bca137f-64036267f2-31590821 Does Israel rule the world yet? - Watch this space!

Russia's Lack of Reaction to Israel's Strikes on Syria Is interesting? https://russia-insider.com/en/russias-lack-reaction-israels-strikes-syria-disgusting/ri23438?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter Birds of a feather play together? :msn-wink:

[oldrider]

Anyone else notice how quiet it's gone media wise etc on the Syrian (read Iran etc) situation lately? - Is this the lull before the storm? - Are the orchestrators hatching a new diabolical plan? :shutup: . :wait:

[mashman]

Anyone else notice how quiet it's gone media wise etc on the Syrian (read Iran etc) situation lately? - Is this the lull before the storm? - Are the orchestrators hatching a new diabolical plan? :shutup: . :wait:

Maybe those arrests are finally happening... then again, it may be Tea.

[Voltaire]

Anyone else notice how quiet it's gone media wise etc on the Syrian (read Iran etc) situation lately? - Is this the lull before the storm? - Are the orchestrators hatching a new diabolical plan? :shutup: . :wait:

They have been busy fawning over the Royal Wedding, wasn't her dress lovely:innocent:

I don't think 'they' want to bother us too much with real news.

[Viking01]

Anyone else notice how quiet it's gone media wise etc on the Syrian (read Iran etc) situation lately? - Is this the lull before the storm? - Are the orchestrators hatching a new diabolical plan? :shutup: . :wait:

http://theantimedia.com/israel-war-lebanon/

[oldrider]

http://theantimedia.com/israel-war-lebanon/


That link has quite a lot of probability attached to it - the three musketeer's Netanyahu, Putin and Trump appear to be a close knit group that only orchestrate activities and results to suit Israeli needs.

Where old world Monarchs used to build moats around their castles - Israel has constructed a ring of destroyed countries (work in progress) to shield her from any possible military aggression.

Gaza has been set up as the standard that they require and all of the damaged neighbours look like duplicate images - smashed to pieces and no threat to anyone let alone Israel. - Lebanon? - watch that space! :corn:

[oldrider]

Israel's (ISIS) proxy war on Middle East neighbours still just chuggin along unconstrained as ever? - https://twitter.com/AWAKEALERT/status/1001138897596792832/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.henrymakow.com%2F

[oldrider]

Interesting interview on Syria situation right from the horses mouth. - so to speak. :corn:

<iframe width="728" height="409" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/YB-McdKnFtQ" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[husaberg]

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/images/2016/04/April-Fools2.jpg
Russia Today
https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/04/01/canadian-pm-justin-trudeau-to-pose-nude-for-gay-mags-body-image-campaign/

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/images/2016/04/April-Fools5.png

[oldrider]

Syrian FM says US troops must leave country:- https://www.veteranstoday.com/2018/06/03/syrian-fm-says-us-troops-must-leave-country/ . US says :rofl: We go where we want - we are the real terrorists! :D

<iframe width="696" height="392" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/e3nhfU3IXwo" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Swoop]

5 June 2018:
Germany openly called for Iran to withdraw its forces from Syria.
This rare criticism of Iran was caused by Israel pointing out that the presence of Iranian forces in Syria is a major cause of Syrians fleeing their country and heading for Germany where it is easy to get asylum. It is generally accepted (and Syria even admits it) that Iran does have thousands of trainers, advisors, technicians and other support specialists to make the Syrian Army and their Iranian allies (mainly Shia mercenaries recruited by Iran and controlled by Iranian trainers and advisers) a formidable force.

The chatter from Iran (Internet postings or street talk) confirms that and the number of these Iranians killed. Most of the dead belong to the Quds Force (similar to the U.S. Special Forces, but which specializes in supporting Islamic terrorists not fighting them). Over a hundred IRGC officers have been killed in Syria and Iraq since 2012. But a growing number of non-Quds personnel are dying as Israel attacks Iranian bases in Syria. Quds supervised the creation of the huge (over 50,000) mercenary force in Syria. Quds recruits these foreign Shia (mainly Afghans and Lebanese), trains, arms, equips, supplies and pays them (including death benefits) and usually has Quds (or IRGC) officers leading the mercenary units. Iranian advisers are also embedded with most Syrian Army units.

These Quds, IRGC (Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps) and Iranian army personnel have rotated in and out of Syria since 2012 and when they get home they talk about their experiences and that (usually via friends or relations) gets posted on social media or emailed to friends and relations overseas (usually via encrypted apps like Telegram). All this is great for intel agencies and journalists with contacts in the overseas Iranian community and a knowledge of Farsi (the major Iranian language). As a result, we know that morale in the Syrian army is really bad because the troops are recruited from the minority (no more than 15 percent of the pre-war population) that supports Assad (usually because they are not Sunni Arabs, who comprised 75 percent of Syrians in 2012). These Syrians often go to great lengths to avoid getting conscripted and if they do end up in uniform few are eager to see combat. Thus the Iranian mercenaries are the key to whatever combat capabilities the Assad forces have. This is why the Assads also want Iran to withdraw its forces once all the rebel forces are destroyed, disarmed or otherwise neutralized. Otherwise, the Iranian led mercenaries will be the real power in Syria.
Until there is peace in Syria more Syrians will flee and those that can afford it will head for Germany, which is one of the few European nations accepting Syrian refugees.


Russia has made it clear that it sides with Israel when it comes to Syria and a long-term peace deal.
Russia backed this up by openly accepting Israeli use of Jerusalem as their capital and moving functions normally held in Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. This angers many Moslems, and especially Iran. This support for Israel is one of the few things the United States and Russia agree on these days.

But the alliance with Russia is unwritten; yet it is real as Israel has not attacked any Russian targets with its growing air offensive against Iranian forces. During May the Russian president met separately with the Israeli and Syrian leaders and apparently worked out terms of a peace deal that Israel and the Assads can live with. Turkey is willing to follow as long as Turkish border security measures (a security zone on the Syrian side of the border patrolled by Turk supported Syrian militias) are left alone. In the northeast, the Syrian Kurds could have their autonomy as long as they kept the peace. Basically, the Russian proposal is that “all foreign troops” leave Syria. That will include the Americans but not those that now have treaty rights (Russia has an airbase and part of a port).
The Americans have no interest in a permanent presence they just want to deal with some Islamic terrorists and then leave. Israel insists that Iran has no treaty rights and should get out completely, along with their local affiliate Hezbollah. Russia has specifically called on Iran get its foreign mercenaries (including Hezbollah) out of Daraa province, which borders Israel. The Russians did this by referring to all “foreign forces” in Daraa and those are all Iranian. Russia knows that Iran has already made a big deal about being near the border and attacking Israel. But so far attempts to attack have only resulted in heavier Iranian losses from Israeli air and missile attacks.

To achieve such a deal the remaining rebel groups have to be destroyed. These holdouts are mainly Islamic terrorist groups aligned with al Qaeda or ISIL (Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant). The Kurds and Americans, with some help from Iraqi forces, are going after the remaining ISIL personnel in eastern and northeastern Syria. The Assads, with the help of Iranian mercenaries and Hezbollah, are clearing areas along the northern and southern borders of remaining rebels. The only problem with this plan is that Iran refuses to leave and keeps repeating that refusal in its mass media. The Russians are unwilling to completely abandon their Iranian ally but at the same time, they do not want Iran dominating Syria like it does Lebanon (via Hezbollah). Meanwhile, Russia does not use its aircraft or air defense missile systems to interfere with Israel trying their best to destroy all Iranian bases in Syria. This Russian policy, while not perfect, is having a noticeable impact on Iran.

Despite the deal with Russia Syria still has a lot of second-rate (compared to the S-300 and S-400 systems Russia has in Syria) anti-aircraft weapons as does Iran. This is a real threat to Israel which is keen to avoid any aircraft losses. To assist with that Israel has already developed longer range guided rockets (like the American GMLRS). They have a 150 kilometres range rocket similar to GMLRS and a larger (1.8 ton) Dora missile with a range of 400 kilometres. Dora uses GPS and a terminal guidance system to achieve high accuracy (within a few metres) Then there is Delilah is one of several loitering cruise missiles Israel has developed. There is also a ground launched Delilah with a range of 250 kilometres. Spike NLOS is another ground based loitering missile in wide use. These can search for a target, with a human controller approving a target via a data link, which also provides video of hits on targets, which Israel sometimes releases to the media. This was the case with the latest airstrikes, which destroyed many Syrian air defence systems (S-200 and Pantsir). Russia explained away the Pantsir loss by asserting that the vehicle was “resting”.
For a while (before making deals with Israel) Russia tried to dissuade Israel and its Western allies from attacking more Syrian targets, especially those that put its high tech weapons to the test because so far these electronic and anti-aircraft systems have proved ineffective against Israeli attacks and probably won’t do much better against the Americans. This is bad for business, as Russia has been touting the combat experience in Syria to get more sales for their new stuff. It would also be disastrous for Russian diplomacy which has portrayed Russia as a powerful and technically advanced ally for Syria, Iran and Turkey. Although Russia talks tough against Israel and the Americans it does not want to take that any further, nor does it want to appear like Russia is backing off.

Russia is in an embarrassing situation and not getting much sympathy from anyone, not even Russians back in Russia.

[Katman]

Germany openly called for Iran to withdraw its forces from Syria.

If Iranian troops are in Syria with the blessing of the Syrian government then it's really none of Germany's business.

(And I notice you're never game to cite the source of your copy and paste efforts).


Syria holds real elections for its government do they. Or are they like Russian elections.

Whether a retarded Transpower employee in New Zealand considers the Syrian government to be legitimately elected or not doesn't change the fact that they are the government of Syria.

[husaberg]

Russia is in an embarrassing situation and not getting much sympathy from anyone, not even Russians back in Russia.
It also needs to be mentioned that the Syrian isil forces contain a heck of a lot of recruits from the Former Soviet Union mainly Chechen and other Russian North Caucasusans
There is a lot of talk that the Russians even recruited and help them "migrate" to Turkey.
Vladimir Putin himself estimated in February 2017 that 4000 Russian citizens were fighting in Syria.
The last thing Russian wants is these radicals coming back to Russia.


If Iranian troops are in Syria with the blessing of the Syrian government then it's really none of Germany's business.


Syria holds real elections for its government do they. Or are they like Russian elections.

Also so in your opinion then ,next time Russia decides to steal some more land form Ukraine like it did with the annexing of crimea its okay for the Ukraine to get the USA to intervene.

[husaberg]

Whether a paranoid delusional taupo bike mechanic in New Zealand considers Vald to be highly erotic is highly relevent.
Useful to know but irrelevant. But don't go letting that get in the way of your latest delusion.
Back to the Crimea again
So in your opinion then ,next time Russia decides to steal some more land form Ukraine like it did with the annexing of crimea its okay for the Ukraine to get the USA to intervene.

[Katman]

Back to the Crimea again
So in your opinion then ,next time Russia decides to steal some more land form Ukraine like it did with the annexing of crimea its okay for the Ukraine to get the USA to intervene.

The people of Crimea voted overwhelmingly to join the Russian Federation.

[husaberg]

The people of Crimea voted overwhelmingly to join the Russian Federation.
Strangely that was after the Russian tanks and army rolled in and after Russia military seized the parliament buildings rather than before.:facepalm:

Ukraine and many world leaders condemned the annexation and consider it to be a violation of international law and Russian-signed agreements safeguarding territorial integrity of Ukraine, including the Agreement on Establishing the Commonwealth of Independent States in 1991, the Helsinki Accords, the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances of 1994 and the Treaty on friendship, cooperation and partnership between the Russian Federation and Ukraine.[It led to the other members of the then G8 suspending Russia from the group,then introducing the first round of sanctions against the country. The United Nations General Assembly also rejected the vote and annexation, adopting a non-binding resolution affirming the "territorial integrity of Ukraine within its internationally recognised borders". The UN resolution also "underscores that the referendum having no validity, cannot form the basis for any alteration of the status of [Crimea]" and calls upon all States and international organizations not to recognize or to imply the recognition of Russia's annexation
Oleksandr Turchynov (20 March 2014).[Declaration "On the struggle for the liberation of Ukraine"] (in Ukrainian). Parliament of Ukraine.
Fred Dews (19 March 2014). "NATO Secretary-General: Russia's Annexation of Crimea Is Illegal and Illegitimate".
Bruno Waterfield; Peter Dominiczak; David Blair; The Daily Telegraph (24 March 2014). "Russia Temporarily Kicked Out of G8 Club of Rich Countries". Business Insider
"UN General Assembly adopts resolution affirming Ukraine's territorial integrity". China Central Television. 28 March 2014. Retrieved 8 March 2015
"United Nations A/RES/68/262 General Assembly" (PDF). United Nations. 1 April 2014. Retrieved 24 April 2014

The vote on United Nations General Assembly Resolution 68/262 (supporting the position that Crimea and Sevastopol remain part of Ukraine) was 100 to 11 in favour, with 58 states abstaining and a further 24 of the 193 member states not voting through being absent when the vote took place.
Only Russia ,Afghanistan, Cuba, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Kyrgyzstan, Nicaragua, Sudan, Syria, and Zimbabwe have recognised the result of the 2014 referendum in Crimea

But don't let pesky details like that cloud your narration.

[Katman]

Strangely that was after the Russian tanks and army rolled in and after Russia military seized the parliament buildings rather than before.:facepalm:

But don't let pesky details like that cloud your narration.

96.77% voted in favour of joining Russia - with a voter turnout of 83.1%.

Russia didn't 'steal' anything.

[husaberg]

96.77% voted in favour of joining Russia - with a voter turnout of 83.1%.

Russia didn't 'steal' anything.
Yeah yeah
Again, was it before or after the Russian tanks rolled in Russian army seized the parliament and then arrested anyone that disagreed with them?

If Such democracies as Cuba, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Kyrgyzstan, Nicaragua, Sudan, Syria, and Zimbabwe All swear its a legit election who would ever argue with that logic:killingme
Seriously who ever know more how to run an election then those 7........
Palestine would have likely agreed as well, if only anyone would let them vote at the UN.

[Katman]

Yeah yeah
Again, was it before or after the Russian tanks rolled in Russian army seized the parliament and then arrested anyone that disagreed with them?

Crimea had been trying to gain full independence from Ukraine since 1992 and their efforts were continually blocked by the Ukraine government.

Russia protected the Crimean peoples right to determine that outcome.

[oldrider]

Sleep walking or are they actually waking up? - http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/49573.htm . :wait: Trump has really got to get that war with Iran on target or he is "toast"! - :rolleyes:

[oldrider]

Air and artillery strikes by the US and its allies inflicted devastating loss of life on civilians in the Isis-held city of Raqqa. http://www.unz.com/pcockburn/us-uk-and-france-inflicted-worst-destruction-in-decades-on-raqqa/ :bash: But it's the good guy's doing it? :innocent:

[husaberg]

Crimea had been trying to gain full independence from Ukraine since 1992 and their efforts were continually blocked by the Ukraine government.

Russia protected the Crimean peoples right to determine that outcome.
Yeah Steve , of course Germany was also invaded by Poland in WW2 as well.
So its just a huge co-incidence that both Crimea and Syria are home to Russia's only offshore Naval bases.

[Katman]

Yeah Steve , of course Germany was also invaded Poland in WW2 as well.

Is English your second language?

[oldrider]

Syria - Ready To Start The Daraa Campaign? http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/49683.htm :corn:

The U.S. government has warned against a Daraa operation and threatened to intervene. - Really? - more evidence of just who it is that backs the terrorists? :yes:

[Voltaire]

Has this one been covered?

Interesting.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ussliberty.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

[Katman]

Has this one been covered?

You must have missed it every other time it's been mentioned.

[oldrider]

Massive Battle For Southwest Syria Could Trigger US-Israeli Intervention https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-06-20/massive-battle-southwest-syria-could-trigger-us-israeli-intervention - Will the real terrorists now stand up? :corn:

[oldrider]

Has this one been covered?

Interesting.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ussliberty.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

Seriously: If you really were not aware of the Liberty fiasco?

Take a quick scan over this and actually challenge the validity of it's content. https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5l6yip/netanyahu_once_we_squeeze_all_we_can_out_of_the/

[Voltaire]

Seriously: If you really were not aware of the Liberty fiasco?

Take a quick scan over this and actually challenge the validity of it's content. https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5l6yip/netanyahu_once_we_squeeze_all_we_can_out_of_the/

Nope, and was unaware until recently that the first MIG jets as seen over Korea were powered by a Rolls Royce designed engine, I need to do less shed and work time and more Googling.

[oldrider]

Nope, and was unaware until recently that the first MIG jets as seen over Korea were powered by a Rolls Royce designed engine, I need to do less shed and work time and more Googling.

Time? - so little left, so much to know, wheat and chaff sorting is a real killer - at least in the shed you are always in charge of the outcomes. Cheers, John. :ride:

[Swoop]

Nope, and was unaware until recently that the first MIG jets as seen over Korea were powered by a Rolls Royce designed engine
A gift from the poms "here, have some engines" but they didn't expect the technology transfer to happen so fast.
The NKVD already had that under control, as samples of the metals used in the engines were back in Moscow and under analysis before the actual engines arrived there.

Also the Americans used Whittle's designs and technology in their first jets, with Whittle flying in a lancaster with sample engines and plans to educate the septics.

[oldrider]

Russia Officially Enters Southwest Syria Offensive Despite US Warnings :girlfight: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/49713.htm

This attack by the Russian Aerospace Forces comes just 48 hours after the U.S. State Department issued a stern warning to both the Russian and Syrian governments about escalating their offensive in southwest Syria. . Really? :rolleyes:

[oldrider]

US tells rebels not to count on its help as Syrian army advances into country’s southwest – report:- https://www.veteranstoday.com/2018/06/24/us-tells-rebels-not-to-count-on-its-help-as-syrian-army-advances-into-countrys-southwest-report/ Orchestrated or not? :scratch:

<iframe width="696" height="392" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/rvxxl1Ze2MI" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[oldrider]

We (the gatecrashers) will vacate the party that we gatecrashed - provided that the host tells the "invited guests" to leave first? :scratch: How generous can the get? :killingme

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-07-15/us-message-assad-we-will-pull-out-syria-if-iran-withdraws Even though the invited guest (Iran) was not actually attending the party? :oi-grr: . :rolleyes: . :rofl:

<iframe width="280" height="158" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3DLPhbvEHU4" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[oldrider]

https://www.davidicke.com/article/487386/kurds-reach-deal-damascus-end-syria-conflict :rolleyes:

[Quote] The SDC delegation visited Damascus for the first time after President Assad said that he was “opening doors” for negotiations with Syrian Kurds that he said had "apparently become wary" of their unpredictable ally - the United States. [End Quote]

[Viking01]

House cleaning continues in Syria:

https://southfront.org/isis-loses-last-its-stronghold-east-of-golan-heights-syrian-army-continues-advance/

But what next ? An interesting article from Robert Fisk:

https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/07/30/are-we-about-to-witness-the-last-battle-of-the-syrian-war/

Regarding rebuilding of Syria, it would seem "sad" if some of
the ME states (like Qatar) that funded rebel groups and who
aided in the destruction of Syria were to benefit financially
from the rebuild.

Fisk's article did not discuss what might happen to the east of
the Euphrates river in current Kurdish territory. Perhaps that
aspect is being dealt with separately:

https://www.rt.com/newsline/434514-syria-sdf-kurds-negotiations/

Russia and Turkey are probably going to come to some agreement in
the round of Astana format talks currently underway (and in which
the US did not want to participate):

https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201807301066785365-syria-constitutional-commission-un/

So it seems that the only part of the puzzle missing is the withdrawal
of US and European forces.

Maybe Donald came to some secret (treasonous?) agreement with Putin
while he was in Helsinki ?

Whereby US and European governments can claim that "their goals have
been achieved, and that their forces can now go home" ? Who knows ?

[Viking01]

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-08-09/un-puts-cost-syrian-war-destruction-nearly-400-billion

[Viking01]

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-08-13/washingtons-rebuff-russias-cooperation-request-syria-shows-its-cynicism

[Viking01]

Twilight of the War
http://www.voltairenet.org/article202215.html

Putting an End to the War
http://www.voltairenet.org/article202314.html

Funding Reconstruction?
http://www.voltairenet.org/article202418.html

[oldrider]

Twilight of the War
http://www.voltairenet.org/article202215.html

Putting an End to the War
http://www.voltairenet.org/article202314.html

Funding Reconstruction?
http://www.voltairenet.org/article202418.html

WW2 stretched Britain to the destruction and surrender of her empire now the American empire is financially stretched (beyond the point of recovery?) is it time for America to die? :wait:

[Viking01]

https://www.rt.com/news/436411-secret-directive-un-syria-russia/

[Viking01]

https://www.eurasiafuture.com/2018/08/21/chaos-theory-hybrid-war-and-the-future-of-syria/

You can easily skip the "theory" and start reading part-way down the article at the section
headed "The Contemporary State Of Affairs In Syria"

[Viking01]

While the military situation is still far from settled, one would have
thought that European self interest at least would have promoted
some engagement with the Russian initiative.

https://southfront.org/what-makes-the-west-reject-russias-syria-reconstruction-initiative/

[oldrider]

WW2 stretched Britain to the destruction and surrender of her empire now the American empire is financially stretched (beyond the point of recovery?) is it time for America to die? :wait:

The Suicidal American Empire Is Collapsing Fast? https://russia-insider.com/en/suicidal-american-empire-collapsing-fast-its-death-now-would-cause-unacceptable-collateral-damage - Someone else thinks America (USA) past it's use-by date! :wait:

[oldrider]

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/436783-us-syria-chemical-attack-bolton/ Wow another Syrian chemical attack - lets shoot off some old rockets to show the world that we care!! :cry:

It's an old idea but it just might work, after all we are still here (in Syria) where we are not wanted or needed. :rolleyes:

[Viking01]

https://southfront.org/two-missile-frigates-join-russias-naval-task-force-near-syria-photos/

[oldrider]

Really - is the world as dumb as they (USA) suggest? https://twitter.com/AWAKEALERT/status/1033916165435924481/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Eembeddedtimeline% 7Ctwterm%5Eprofile%3AHenryMakow&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.henrymakow.com%2F :facepalm:

Proof of the pudding? https://southfront.org/syrian-war-report-august-28-2018-us-creates-strike-force-to-attack-syria/

[oldrider]

REVEALED: U.S MADE AN OFFER TO WITHDRAW FROM SYRIA IN EXCHANGE FOR THESE THREE DEMANDS https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/08/revealed-u-s-made-an-offer-to-withdraw-from-syria-in-exchange-for-these-three-demands/ Yeah right - Claytons?

An offer they think they can't refuse? https://southfront.org/syrian-war-report-august-28-2018-us-creates-strike-force-to-attack-syria/

[oldrider]

Like TV advertising - repeat repeat repeat until you become numb to it and then?:- Wammy https://southfront.org/russia-warns-that-us-allies-ready-to-strike-syria-within-24-hours/ and nobody notices the difference.

Western terrorists are at it again but the world moves on as if nothing has changed - outrage it seems, is as dead as the dodo bird. :rolleyes: Watch this space? :shifty:

[oldrider]

Russian report: US moves to close Syrian airspace to Russia https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20180831-russian-report-us-moves-to-close-syrian-airspace-to-russia/ - No Fly Zone? = WW3? - watch this space very closely! :corn:

Donald Trump = the Churchill puppet of the new century? - Remember that - "ALL WARS ARE BANKERS WARS" - There is no other real need for it. :no:

Apart from this nutter:- https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20180831-israel-threatens-to-use-nuclear-weapons-to-wipe-out-its-enemies/

Still rattling on like the USA is innocent party in all this terrorism? - https://www.rt.com/usa/437551-trump-assad-idlib-warning/ - Whos country is it after all?

[oldrider]

Breaking News: Russia Warns its Citizens of Direct Confrontation

<iframe width="922" height="519" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Shzs42QEDIc" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Swoop]

4 September, 2018: Russia has moved 25 warships to the Syrian coast, apparently in support of the Syrian offensive against Idlib, the last rebel held province. The naval force includes submarines, destroyers, frigates, smaller warships and several support ships. This is the largest number of warships Russia has ever deployed to the Syrian coast and this is officially an effort to deter the U.S. Navy from attacking the Syrian forces (which the U.S. said it would do if the Syrians used chemical weapons in Idlib). Russia has also moved more warplanes to Syria and has some heavy bombers ready to fly from southern Russia to launch cruise missiles at targets in Idlib.

Some of the rebel groups in Idlib have been seen digging trenches and destroying bridges, or installing remotely controlled explosives, in preparation for the expected battle. The Turkish border is heavily guarded by the Turks but traffic is allowed, especially supplies coming in from Turkey. The fortified Turkish border is meant to keep Islamic terrorists out, as well as refugees trying to flee the expected fighting in Idlib.

Russia warned that the rebels are preparing to use chemical weapons while the United States pointed out that the available evidence indicates that the Syrian Assad forces are more likely to use chemical weapons. So far the Syrian Army has moved about 2,000 armoured vehicles (visible from the air) to the Idlib border. Russia and Syria will provide air support for the Idlib offensive and Turkey will maintain control of its border. No Iranian mercenaries are being used in Idlib, something Turkey insisted on and Russia and Syria persuaded Iran to accept. Iran repeated its determination to keep military forces in Syria despite Israeli refusal to accept that and willingness to keep bombing Iranian facilities. So far Iran has not been able to prevent these air strikes and Israeli officials agree (with commercially available satellite photos and eyewitness reports from Syria) that Iranian military activity has decreased considerably since July. This reduction in activity is apparently linked with unrest back in Iran.

Elsewhere in the north (and the rest of Syria) there is not much violence at all, especially in Kurdish controlled territory (everything east of the Euphrates River). The Assads and Kurds are still negotiating the post-war form of government the Kurds will have. The Kurds want autonomy for their north-eastern homeland and believe they have earned it. Although technically rebels after 2011 the Kurds were actually frenemies with the Assads throughout the civil war. Assad is inclined to grant it but Iran is pressuring the Syrians to take a hard line on the Kurds.

The Assads note that in neighbouring Lebanon the recent national elections returned Christian billionaire Saad Hariri to his post as prime minister. Despite that Hariri has limited power as prime minister because Iran backed Hezbollah dominates the government to the point where they not only have a veto over anything the majority (which does not support Hezbollah) wants but can also push through nearly any new laws they (or Iran) wants. Most Lebanese do not want another civil war (like the devastating 1975-90 one) and Hezbollah and Iran take full advantage of that. The Assads fear they will end of like Lebanon if Iran is allowed to build a Syrian branch of Hezbollah. Putting that in perspective Hariri recently commented that he would rather deal with the Russians (about local matters) than the Assads.

Israel has warned that it will not allow a Syrian Hezbollah to be created and will attack Iranian forces in Lebanon, Syria and Iraq. This is especially true as Iran seeks to establish their shorter range ballistic missiles in these three countries and threaten Saudi Arabia as well as Israel with them.

ISIL (Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant) has gone guerrilla and has no large base areas where it can operate openly, especially in Syria. Yet many ISIL gunmen still have their families (wives and children) with them. These can hide in plain sight as refugees or live among pro-ISIL civilians. Such communities provide some support for the ISIL fighters but must remain unknown to police or the many (the majority) Iraqis and Syrians who are hostile to ISIL. Guerrilla tactics were always an ISIL staple, especially in Iraq where ISIL operated (as an al Qaeda offshoot) before it changed its name to ISIL. The name change was the result of the unexpected success of some of these Iraqi terrorists at establishing themselves in Syria. There the civil war was intensifying and the Assad government was losing. Now that ISIL has lost control (by early 2018) of Mosul and other Iraqi towns they have no choice but to start all over. In Syria, ISIL lost control of Raqqa (to the Kurds) at the end of 2017.

As ISIL personnel are now generally in hiding it is difficult to get an accurate count. Official mid-2018 estimates were about 17,000 in Iraq and 13,000 in Syria. But that implies that the number of armed men ISIL had in Iraq by 2014 is the same as mid-2018. How can that be, given the relatively low level of ISIL activity since early 2018? The answer is that the official estimates include a lot of unarmed supporters, including family members. Captured ISIL members will often exaggerate the size of the group he belongs to as will ISIL members delivering threats to local civilians who the Islamic terrorists are trying to intimidate into compliance (not informing on ISIL). Cooperative civilians are immune to ISIL attacks so there is that. But the ability of ISIL to enforce the cooperation is often an illusion because ISIL tries to appear more omnipresent than they actually are.

A population of cooperative civilians is essential for ISIL to survive as guerrillas and that is why there are probably more ISIL operating in Iraq than in Syria. The civilians not only provide some cover but are also a source of supplies (which ISIL strives to pay for, in order to build some loyalty.) This is all basic guerrilla tradecraft that is made more difficult when there are a lot of cell phones around. That increases the risk of some angry (or not even local) civilian making a call to the police to report possible ISIL activity. ISIL leaders noted that a key factor in the loss of control in an area was the local civilians retaining some access to Internet and cell phone service as well as satellite TV receivers.

ISIL (and other Islamic radicals) have long tried to control the use of all three of these items but have been unable to completely eliminate them from populations they control. Once ISIL was driven out of an area the cell phone companies were eager to rebuild their cell phone and Internet service and as people in those areas of restored cell phone service became more confident that reporting on remaining ISIL activity would not get them killed the calls started coming. These phone calls have become more frequent and has led to the growing number of arrests or discovery of ISIL hideouts and the destruction of active ISIL terrorists. This has led to a decline in terror related deaths and more violent encounters between security forces and the many “sleeper cells” ISIL deliberately left behind when they lost control of an area. What has kept ISIL going are Sunni Arab areas where they still have some support, at least as someone who will fighting hack against the Kurds and Shia Arabs. There are fewer Sunni majority areas in Syria for ISIL to get support from.

The civil war that began it was always about Syrian Shia (the Assads) and other minorities against the Sunni Arab majority. The Assads deliberately and successfully drove most of the Sunni Arabs most opposed to them out of the country. The Sunni Arabs are still a majority but they have been terrorized by the Assads and convinced that support for groups like ISIL would bring swift and severe punishment. There are more opportunities to find sanctuary in Iraq. There are some areas along the Iraqi border where ISIL can hide on the Syrian side, but once discovered they are subject to attack by Iraqi or American airstrikes (or artillery fired from Iraq) as well as Kurdish and Assad ground forces in Syria (as well as some Iran backed mercenaries). ISIL is still around in Syria and Iraq but as hunted killers, not rulers of vast areas in both countries.

3 September, 2018: The United States warned Russia, Syria and Iran not to attack Idlib province, the last rebel held area in Syria. This warning was mainly meant for Syria and its use of chemical weapons. Russia is mainly there to provide air support of the Syrians do attack. Russia is also trying to intimidate the Americans. Iran is sitting this one out and while Turkey supports clearing the Islamic terrorists out of Idlib the Turks are just going to defend their border against the expected million or more refugees fleeing the fighting. Turkey won’t let them in. France also protested the offensive and also threatened to retaliate militarily. In the last two years, the U.S. has twice bombed Syrian forces in retaliation for Syrians using chemical weapons and threatens to do so again if the Syrians use chemical weapons in Idlib. Syria apparently plans to do so in order to reduce casualties among their own troops.

1 September, 2018: In the south (Damascus) there were several large explosions at the Mazzen airbase outside the capital. There were two fatalities. Syria blamed Israel, saying several rockets were launched from northern Israel against the Republican Guard base. Israel did not comment. Initial attempts by Syria claim the explosions were because of an accident, not an attack, were quickly withdrawn. There were too many witnesses and missile attacks leave missile fragments behind in the target area (which was right outside the base at a weapons and ammo storage area).

In the east (Homs province) an Iranian military convoy was hit by an airstrike. This killed four Syrians, one Iranian and three foreign mercenaries. At least eleven people were wounded. The airstrike may have occurred because the convoy was too close to the American special operations base of Tanf, on the Syrian side of the Iraqi border near the Jordan border. The American forces there reported they had been fired on by unknown forces but there was no damage and they did not return fire. So it remains a mystery whose warplanes did the deed. The Americans have some support from Sunni tribes in Syria and Iraq and that is mainly to keep informed on what is going on in the area around Tanf. Iran has assisted (with its mercenaries) Assad forces in trying to eliminate the Tanf base but these efforts have failed. The Americans have too much airpower and too much aerial and ground surveillance around Tanf. The U.S. has declared a “free fire” zone that means any Assad/Iranian forces getting within 30 kilometres of Tanf are automatically attacked. Iranian and Assad forces rarely test this free-fire zone. They know it works. While no one took credit for the airstrike it is now believed to be Israeli, but the Israelis often try to hide their involvement.

Off the Syrian coast 25 Russian Navy ships (most of them warships the rest support) and 30 aircraft held training exercises.
28 August, 2018: Russia, Turkey and Syria agreed on a plan to attack and destroy the Islamic terrorist groups in Idlib province, particularly HTS/al Nusra. Idlib is the last Islamic terrorist stronghold and is in the northwest, on the Turkish border. Idlib is currently controlled by various rebel groups. Over half of Idlib is controlled by the HTS (Hayat Tahrir al Sham) coalition. This is the main al Qaeda organization which evolved from al Nusra by absorbing (willingly or otherwise) many other like-minded groups over the years. About a third of the province is controlled by several other Islamic terrorist groups. Last week the largest six of these factions merged to form the NLF (National Liberation Front). This merger was arranged by Ahrar al Sham, a long-time rival of HTS. About ten percent of the province is controlled by Turkey (in the north along the hundred kilometre long border with Turkey) and Assad forces (several towns and villages in the southeast).

27 August, 2018: Israeli satellite photos show a new ballistic missile assembly facility being built on the Mediterranean coast at Baniyas. The new facility is similar in layout to existing missile assembly plants in Iran. The one in Syria appears to be about six months from completion. Iran is believed to be building or planning to build a similar facility in Iraq. These assembly plants would use Iran made components to produced solid fuel ballistic missiles including the Zolfaghar (700 kilometre range), the Fateh 110 which can be launched from trucks that carry them and have a range of 300 kilometres. There are also truck mounted Zelzal-3s with a range of up to 250 kilometres. All three of these can reach Saudi Arabian and Israeli targets from Iraq and Syria.

[Viking01]

4 September, 2018: Russia has moved 25 warships to the Syrian coast ...



Out of curiosity, what news source are you using for your recent posts on Syria ?
These seem quite comprehensive.

Cheers

[Viking01]

https://www.eurasiafuture.com/2018/09/05/idlib-where-a-very-real-war-meets-high-political-theatre/

[Swoop]

Out of curiosity, what news source are you using for your recent posts on Syria ?
These seem quite comprehensive.
Non-mainstream sources. Not the bullshit from mainstream media who cannot get simple facts correct and need to have a "headline".

[F5 Dave]

I've never been on this thread but it seemed a suitable point to mention the hypocrisy of a thread call a short summary that is 3 years and 39 pages on. :facepalm:

Drops mic. Unsubscribes.

[Katman]

Drops mic.

:tugger:


Unsubscribes.

Yeah, you should probably fuck off back to trying to sabotage people's bike sales.

[Viking01]

Non-mainstream sources. Not the bullshit from mainstream media who cannot get simple facts correct and need to have a "headline".

Thanks.

Trust a separate PM on the same subject was from you. If not, please ignore.

Understand your point. And the prime reason that I started a separate thread
sometime ago (A Better Quality of Fake News), in order to try and get feedback
on news channels that were reasonably factual, and not heavily biased one way
or the other.

Cheers

[Viking01]

https://southfront.org/new-alliance-emerges-in-eastern-mediterranean-to-reshape-regional-security-landscape/

[oldrider]

US Military Preparing For (prearranged) "Options" In Syria https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-09-08/us-military-preparing-options-syria - Tui moment? - yeah right! :rolleyes: - :wait:

United States prepared to go to war to defend AlQaeda? https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/1038503180760305664

[Viking01]

https://viableopposition.blogspot.com/2018/09/censoring-syria-videocracy-and-cyberwar.html

[oldrider]

US jets strike Syrian town with banned white phosphorus bombs – Russian Defense Ministry https://www.rt.com/news/438008-us-strikes-syria-white-phosphorus/ - USA - do as we say not as we do?

[oldrider]

US Says Assad Has Approved Gas Attack In Idlib, Setting Stage For Major Military Conflict https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-09-09/us-says-assad-has-approved-gas-attack-idlib-setting-stage-major-military-conflict - "SURPRISE"? - Yeah right! :laugh:

[husaberg]

I've never been on this thread but it seemed a suitable point to mention the hypocrisy of a thread call a short summary that is 3 years and 39 pages on. :facepalm:

Drops mic. Unsubscribes.
If you took out oldies rants about how everything is the jews fault and katmans refusual to answer questions ita only about 3 pages.

[oldrider]

If you took out oldies rants about how everything is the jews fault .

Your own twisted interpretation of events as usual. :rolleyes:

[oldrider]

Law unto themselves?:- https://theantimedia.com/john-bolton-threaten-icc-sanctions/ Totally unaccountable to anyone? :shutup:

[Swoop]

11 September 2018: In Syria even the sudden arrival of Iranian mercenaries to reinforce Syrian forces in the northwest is not enough to start the final battle of the civil war; to take back Idlib province from the rebels. Turkey had insisted on no Iranian involvement but was eventually overruled by Russia and Iran. Syria preferred to keep the Iranian mercenaries out of this but was dependent on Iran for so much military and economic support that whatever Iran wanted, Syria complied.

The presidents of Iran, Russia and Turkey met on the 7th in Iran to decide what their common strategy would be in Syria, At that point Syrian troops had already assembled in the northwest and Syrian commanders carried out some preliminary attacks. Russian aerial reconnaissance confirmed what the Syrian troops reported; the rebels were preparing to resist and a lot more of the pro-rebel civilians in Idlib were being armed or were building fortifications. Iranian officers agreed with the Syrians that victory via a quick offensive was not going to work, even with maximum Russian air support (including cruise missiles launched from ships and aircraft). Idlib would have to be taken the hard way, with numerous small battles to take individual villages and towns. That would keep Syrian/Iranian casualties down, which was essential since there were not enough experienced troops for a lot of these battles being fought at the same time.

The results of the 7 September discussions were that the attack would go forward but in coordination with the Turks who faced a very real refugee problem as the only place the rebels and their civilian supporters could flee to was Turkey. Russia said it would deal with American threats to intervene (if Syria used chemical weapons again). The Russians were not going to fight the Americans. Not just because the Americans appeared to be a formidable threat but also because the Israelis might get involved and Russia does not want to destroy its ties with Israel over this. Meanwhile Russian warplanes have been hitting targets in Idlib with increasing frequency over the last few days. In effect the offensive has already begun, as a slow roll rather than a major assault.

Discussions continue on how Russia, Iran and Turkey will operate in Syria once the civil war is officially over. That will happen even before Idlib is back under Syrian government control. Because there are over 50,000 armed rebels in Idlib and fewer than 100,000 Syrian troops and Iranian mercenaries available for Idlib operations. Morale is not high among the attackers, especially the Syrian troops. Syria is negotiating peace deals with Kurds (who control the northeast), Druze (who occupy much of the Israeli-Jordan border) and Sunni groups (tribal leaders and local leaders who have not been hostile). Syria wants to attract a lot of foreign aid for reconstruction but that is complicated by Iranian plans to establish a permanent military presence and continue threatening Israel. Several members of the Assad clan are facing war crimes charges and Lebanon, Turkey and Jordan want to send back several million Sunni Arab refugees (which the Assads do not want). The war will not end quickly or in a tidy fashion.

Russia and the U.S. are still arguing over the chemical weapons issue in Syria. The UN agrees with the Americans that Syria has used chemical weapons against rebels and Syrians admit that they are ready to use chlorine gas against rebels. Russia still insists that the rebels are preparing to use chemical weapons despite available evidence indicating that the Syrian forces are more likely to use chemical weapons. The Americans threaten swift retribution if Syria uses chemical weapons again.

Russia is backing away from Iran in general because Iran is becoming more of a liability than an asset. Working closely with Iran in Syria was mainly about the 2015 treaty that lifted most sanctions on Iran and enabled Russia to do a lot more business in Iran. That did not work out as the corruption inside Iran delayed a lot of the expected new business and the Arab oil states pointed out that anyone who was really close to Iran would be getting a lot less business from the Arab states in general and the Arab oil states (which controlled more oil than Iran) in particular.

Then the Americans pulled out of the 2015 treaty earlier this year and are restoring many of the sanctions. European nations are finding that the U.S. revival of sanctions makes it impossible for many European firms to do business in Iran. Then there are the continued Iranian threats to attack Israel, especially from newly established bases in Syria. Israel has made it clear it will not allow those bases to remain and has warned Russia to stand aside when Israeli airstrikes hit the Iranians in Syria. Now Russia, the Americans and Israel have agreed to cooperate in getting Iran out of Syria. Turkey and Iraq would also prefer this. Until recently there were few press releases or other official announcements about this but you can see the plan unfolding as Iran finds itself abandoned in Syria and under growing attack. Russia has long-term interests in the Middle East and opportunities in Syria because of deals already made with the Assad government. Russia has been on good terms with Israel for a long time and sees that as more important than anything Iran has to offer.

[oldrider]

Ron Paul: Why the Heck Are We Siding With Al-Qaeda in Syria? https://twitter.com/Ian56789/status/1039597683336523776/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Eembeddedtimeline% 7Ctwterm%5Eprofile%3AHenryMakow%7Ctwgr%5E373939313 b636f6e74726f6c&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.henrymakow.com%2F - :shifty:

US Senator Richard Black: We (USA) need to support Syria fighting against Terrorism. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50234.htm But they are not are they?

[oldrider]

Breaking News: US and British Forces Trapped in Idlib Syria

<iframe width="922" height="519" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/YmFZihj8tYY" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[oldrider]

A different point of view worthy of a read at least? - http://www.investmentwatchblog.com/do-the-american-people-have-the-stomach-for-another-war-for-israel-in-syria/ - Certainly not MSM material. :oi-grr: Dare yourself to read it. :rolleyes:

[Banditbandit]

Ron Paul: Why the Heck Are We Siding With Al-Qaeda in Syria?

US Senator Richard Black: We (USA) need to support Syria fighting against Terrorism. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50234.htm But they are not are they?

There are not just two sides in the Syrian conflict - there are essentially three groups involved.

Bashar Al Assad's Government

The Rebels (against Assad's repressive socialist government )

Al Qaeda ... who are late comers to this fight

But that is a bit of a simplistic view

Even the rebels are not really a unified group - as some of the supporters of Al Qaeda have joined the rebels - and some rebels have joined with Al Qaeda. Some of the rebels have also been fighting against Al Qaeda - the rebels hate Al Qaeda as much as the others hate them.

The Rebels want a free democracy - their war began when Assad used repressive and murderous tactics against his own people. They are a loose group lead by former Syrian Army officers. they called themselves the Free Syrian Army, though this group is different from the Turkish-backed Free Syrian Army - even if they are fighting on the same side. .

Al Qaeda moved into Syria after the Civil War started, when they got pushed out of the surrounding countries .. they are/were using the war to try to make the area a fundamentalist Islamic State.

While the US and allies have been focusing on Al Qaeda, Russia and Assad have been focusing on the Rebels .. and Assad and Putin have been using the term "terrorist" especially "Islamic terrorists" as a label to justify their attacks and gain international support, and reduce US interference in their war. Don't get sucked in by this label ..

So, with the US basically driving Al Qaeda out of Syria - and Putin/Assad winning over the Rebels, Syria will return to a Russian-backed Socialist regime - which is oppressive, brutal and tortures and murders its own people ..

A real win for the world (not). .

[Viking01]

https://ahtribune.com/world/north-africa-south-west-asia/syria-crisis/1135-day-before-deraa.html

[oldrider]

https://ahtribune.com/world/north-africa-south-west-asia/syria-crisis/1135-day-before-deraa.html

Lead a horse to water etc - underestimate the enemy at your peril - they are very very clever and determined beyond simply generations their target is forever! :wait: (and forever!)

[oldrider]

The IDF has forced the Jerusalem Post to remove its explosive report on the Israeli military giving weapons to the Syrian rebels, the newspaper’s managing editor confirmed to RT. :Oops:

https://www.rt.com/news/437719-jerusalem-post-idf-censor/

No wonder ISIS etc never ever attacked Israel. :rolleyes: They are one in the same! :shutup: By deception do war? :psst: Who said that?

[Viking01]

http://www.atimes.com/article/syrians-cast-ballots-in-first-local-elections-since-2011/

[oldrider]

Conceding Defeat in Iraq - https://www.raialyoum.com/index.php/conceding-defeat-in-iraq/ - Two sides to every story? - this was the other guy's story! :scratch: - MAGA? :confused:

[oldrider]

Putin says Israel did not shoot down Russian plane, calls it a tragic accident :- Friends huh - https://www.timesofisrael.com/putin-says-israel-did-not-shoot-down-russian-plane-calls-it-tragic-accident/ Who needs enemies then? :scratch:

Moscow Accuses Israel Of Using Downed Russian Jet As "Cover" During Syrian Attack:- https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-09-18/moscow-says-israel-used-downed-russian-jet-cover-during-syrian-attack

Business is business never let a good tragedy go to waste - even if you have to create one yourself - sorta like a mini 9/11? :innocent:

[Viking01]

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2018/09/19/west-hates-peace-syria-from-de-escalation-almost-world-war-iii-just-two-hours.html

[Viking01]

https://southfront.org/damascus-government-to-announce-general-amnesty-soon/

[oldrider]

Putin Has Little Choice but to Allow Israel to Continue Operating in Syria:- http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:FZfYqgtvYKEJ:https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-putin-has-little-choice-but-to-allow-israel-to-continue-operating-in-syria-1.6492247&num=1&hl=en&gl=hk&strip=0&vwsrc=0 - :shifty: Did you catch the smug look on Bibi's face? :finger:

[Swoop]

Putin Has Little Choice but to Allow Israel to Continue Operating in Syria

He isn't bothered either way. They have an agreement...
Also, what Israel bombs & destroys, the Russians get more sales in "replacement items" with the Assad dictator.

[oldrider]

He isn't bothered either way. They have an agreement...
Also, what Israel bombs & destroys, the Russians get more sales in "replacement items" with the Assad dictator.

True! -

What you see is definitely not what you get out of all that posturing bullshit on display over there. - orchestrated theatre creating confusion and controlled fear.

Uncontrolled wars booms and busts of yesteryear now controlled war constantly regulating world banking (as required on demand) with a little population control thrown in? :corn:

[Viking01]

https://orientalreview.org/2018/09/21/western-demands-on-syria/

More fancy words from the West, facilitated by the UNO, but underlying
demand is still Syrian regime change.

[oldrider]

Russian Military Revealed Additional Details Of IL-20 Shootdown Off Syrian Coast (Video):- https://southfront.org/russian-military-revealed-additional-details-of-il-20-shootdown-off-syrian-coast-video/

:psst: More effective to simply ask forgiveness rather than be refused permission - business is business after all. :shutup: . :innocent: . :violin:

[husaberg]

Korean Air Lines Flight 007


Korean Air Lines Flight 007 (also known as KAL007 and KE007) was a scheduled Korean Air Lines flight from New York City to Seoul via Anchorage, Alaska. On 1 September 1983, the South Korean airliner serving the flight was shot down by a Soviet Su-15 interceptor. The Boeing 747 airliner was en route from Anchorage to Seoul, but deviated from its original planned route and flew through Soviet prohibited airspace about the time of a U.S. aerial reconnaissance mission. The Soviet Air Forces treated the unidentified aircraft as an intruding U.S. spy plane, and proceeded to destroy it with air-to-air missiles, after firing warning shots which were likely not seen by the KAL pilots. The Korean airliner eventually crashed in the sea near Moneron Island west of Sakhalin in the Sea of Japan. All 269 passengers and crew aboard were killed, including Larry McDonald, a Representative from Georgia in the United States House of Representatives. The Soviets found the wreckage under the sea on September 15, and found the flight recorders in October, but this information was kept secret until 1993.

The Soviet Union initially denied knowledge of the incident but later admitted shooting down the aircraft, claiming that it was on a MASINT spy mission. The Politburo of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union said it was a deliberate provocation by the United States to probe the Soviet Union's military preparedness, or even to provoke a war. The White House accused the Soviet Union of obstructing search and rescue operations. The Soviet Armed Forces suppressed evidence sought by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) investigation, such as the flight recorders,which were released eight years later, after the dissolution of the Soviet Union.



General Secretary Yuri Andropov, on the advice of Defense Minister (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minister_of_Defence_of_the_Soviet_Union) Dmitriy Ustinov, but against the advice of the Foreign Ministry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Foreign_Affairs_(Soviet_Union)), initially decided not to make any admission of downing the airliner, on the premise that no one would find out or be able to prove otherwise.[ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007#cite_note-Oberdorfer-67)Consequently the TASS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegraph_Agency_of_the_Soviet_Union) news agency reported twelve hours after the shootdown only that an unidentified aircraft, flying without lights, had been intercepted by Soviet fighters after it violated Soviet airspace over Sakhalin. The aircraft had allegedly failed to respond to warnings and "continued its flight toward the East Sea".Some commentators believe that the inept manner in which the political events were handled by the Soviet government was affected by the failing health of Andropov, who was permanently hospitalised in late September or early October 1983 (Andropov died the following February).
In a 2015 interview Igor Kirillov (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Kirillov), the senior Soviet news anchor, said that he was initially given a printed TASS report to announce over the news on September 1, which included an "open and honest" admission that the plane was shot down by mistake (a wrong judgement call by the Far Eastern Air Defence Command). However, at the moment the opening credits of the Vremya (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vremya) evening news programme rolled in, an editor ran in and snatched the sheet of paper from his hand, handing him another TASS report which was "completely opposite" to the first one and to the truth

Malaysia Airlines Flight 17



The responsibility for investigation was delegated to the Dutch Safety Board (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Safety_Board) (DSB) and the Dutch-led joint investigation team (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17#Criminal_investigation ) (JIT), who concluded that the airliner was downed by a Buk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system) surface-to-air missile (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-to-air_missile) launched from pro-Russian separatist-controlled territory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novorossiya_(confederation)) in Ukraine. According to the JIT, the Buk that was used originated from the 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/53rd_Anti-Aircraft_Missile_Brigade) of the Russian Federation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia),and had been transported from Russia on the day of the crash, fired from a field in a rebel-controlled area, and the launcher returned to Russia after it was used to shoot down MH17. On the basis of the JIT's conclusions, the governments of the Netherlands and Australia hold Russia responsible for the deployment of the Buk installation and are taking steps to hold Russia formally accountable.

Contrast this to oldies example

The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a United States Navy technical research ship, USS Liberty, by Israeli Air Force jet fighter aircraft and Israeli Navy motor torpedo boats, on 8 June 1967, during the Six-Day War.[3] The combined air and sea attack killed 34 crew members (naval officers, seamen, two marines, and one civilian), wounded 171 crew members, and severely damaged the ship.[4] At the time, the ship was in international waters north of the Sinai Peninsula, about 25.5 nmi (29.3 mi; 47.2 km) northwest from the Egyptian city of Arish.
Israel apologized for the attack, saying that the USS Liberty had been attacked in error after being mistaken for an Egyptian ship. Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion about the ship's identity

[oldrider]

Israel apologized for the attack, saying that the USS Liberty had been attacked in error after being mistaken for an Egyptian ship. Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion about the ship's identity.

Yeah right - the whole world is stupid. :baby:

[husaberg]

Israel apologized for the attack, saying that the USS Liberty had been attacked in error after being mistaken for an Egyptian ship. Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion about the ship's identity.

Yeah right - the whole world is stupid. :baby:
Anyone who refuse's to believe how 9 separate investigations carried out separately by two separate countries viewing all the evidence can find the same outcome yet still be 100% wrong is pretty stupid.
U.S. Naval Court of Inquiry of June 1967
Joint Chief of Staff's Report of June 1967.
CIA Intelligence Memorandums of June 1967
Clark Clifford Report of July 1967
Senate Foreign Relations Committee Testimony during hearings of the 1967 Foreign Aid Authorization bill, July 1967
House Armed Services Committee Investigation of 1971
The NSA History Report of 1981
As opposed to refusing to claim responsibility for killing about 500 people on two separate occasions on two separate well marked civilian airliners then trying to cover it up and pretend it was someone else.


Korean Air Lines Flight 007

Korean Air Lines Flight 007 (also known as KAL007 and KE007) was a scheduled Korean Air Lines flight from New York City to Seoul via Anchorage, Alaska. On 1 September 1983, the South Korean airliner serving the flight was shot down by a Soviet Su-15 interceptor. The Boeing 747 airliner was en route from Anchorage to Seoul, but deviated from its original planned route and flew through Soviet prohibited airspace about the time of a U.S. aerial reconnaissance mission. The Soviet Air Forces treated the unidentified aircraft as an intruding U.S. spy plane, and proceeded to destroy it with air-to-air missiles, after firing warning shots which were likely not seen by the KAL pilots. The Korean airliner eventually crashed in the sea near Moneron Island west of Sakhalin in the Sea of Japan. All 269 passengers and crew aboard were killed, including Larry McDonald, a Representative from Georgia in the United States House of Representatives. The Soviets found the wreckage under the sea on September 15, and found the flight recorders in October, but this information was kept secret until 1993.

The Soviet Union initially denied knowledge of the incident but later admitted shooting down the aircraft, claiming that it was on a MASINT spy mission. The Politburo of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union said it was a deliberate provocation by the United States to probe the Soviet Union's military preparedness, or even to provoke a war. The White House accused the Soviet Union of obstructing search and rescue operations. The Soviet Armed Forces suppressed evidence sought by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) investigation, such as the flight recorders,which were released eight years later, after the dissolution of the Soviet Union.
General Secretary Yuri Andropov, on the advice of Defense Minister Dmitriy Ustinov, but against the advice of the Foreign Ministry, initially decided not to make any admission of downing the airliner, on the premise that no one would find out or be able to prove otherwise.[Consequently the TASS news agency reported twelve hours after the shootdown only that an unidentified aircraft, flying without lights, had been intercepted by Soviet fighters after it violated Soviet airspace over Sakhalin. The aircraft had allegedly failed to respond to warnings and "continued its flight toward the East Sea".Some commentators believe that the inept manner in which the political events were handled by the Soviet government was affected by the failing health of Andropov, who was permanently hospitalised in late September or early October 1983 (Andropov died the following February).
In a 2015 interview Igor Kirillov, the senior Soviet news anchor, said that he was initially given a printed TASS report to announce over the news on September 1, which included an "open and honest" admission that the plane was shot down by mistake (a wrong judgement call by the Far Eastern Air Defence Command). However, at the moment the opening credits of the Vremya evening news programme rolled in, an editor ran in and snatched the sheet of paper from his hand, handing him another TASS report which was "completely opposite" to the first one and to the truth

Malaysia Airlines Flight 17
The responsibility for investigation was delegated to the Dutch Safety Board (DSB) and the Dutch-led joint investigation team (JIT), who concluded that the airliner was downed by a Buk surface-to-air missile launched from pro-Russian separatist-controlled territory in Ukraine. According to the JIT, the Buk that was used originated from the 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade of the Russian Federation,and had been transported from Russia on the day of the crash, fired from a field in a rebel-controlled area, and the launcher returned to Russia after it was used to shoot down MH17. On the basis of the JIT's conclusions, the governments of the Netherlands and Australia hold Russia responsible for the deployment of the Buk installation and are taking steps to hold Russia formally accountable.

[husaberg]

16–17 June 1968, HMAS Hobart (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMAS_Hobart_(D_39)), USS Boston (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Boston_(CA-69)) and USS Edson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Edson_(DD-946)) were attacked by US aircraft. At 03:09, Hobart's radar picked up an aircraft approaching with no IFF transponder active. At 03:14, the aircraft fired a single missile at the ship which killed one sailor, wounded two others and damaged the ship. Two minutes later, the aircraft made a second pass and fired two missiles which caused further damage, killed another sailor and wounded six others. The aircraft came around for a third attack run, but was scared off when Hobart's forward gun turret, under independent control, fired five rounds at it. At 03:30, USS Edson, in company with Hobart, reported coming under fire, and Hobart's captain ordered both destroyers and USS Theodore E. Chandler (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Theodore_E._Chandler_(DD-717)) to take up anti-aircraft formation. At 05:15, the three destroyers linked up with the cruiser USS Boston (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Boston_(CA-69)) (which had been hit by a missile from another aircraft) and the escorting destroyer USS Blandy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Blandy_(DD-943)), and continued anti-aircraft manoeuvring. Debris collected from Hobart and the other ships indicated that the missiles were of United States Air Force (USAF) origin. The attacks on Hobart and the other ships were the capstone of a series of firing incidents between 15 and 17 June, and an inquiry was held by the USN into the incidents, with three RAN personnel attending as technical advisors. The inquiry found that a few hours before the attack on Hobart, Swift Boats PCF-12 and PCF-19, along with USCGC Point Dume (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USCGC_Point_Dume_(WPB-82325)), were attacked by what they identified at the time as hovering enemy aircraft, but were believed to be friendly planes; PCF-19 was sunk in the attack. F-4 Phantoms of the USAF Seventh Air Force, responding several hours after the attack on the Swift Boats, were unable to distinguish between the radar signature of surface ships and airborne helicopters, and instead opened fire on Hobart, Boston, and Edson.


1974 Turkish Invasion of Cyprus
The Turkish destroyer D-354 Kocatepe was sunk by Turkish warplanes after being mistaken for an enemy ship.

1944 8th USAAF heavy bombers bombed the headquarters of the 3rd Canadian Infantry Division and 1st Polish Armoured Division during Operation Totalize, killing 65 and wounding 250 Allied soldiers.

[Katman]

Anyone who refuse's to believe how 9 separate investigations carried out separately by two separate countries viewing all the evidence can find the same outcome yet still be 100% wrong is pretty stupid.


You should probably read up on what those who were actually on board the USS Liberty have to say - rather than any of the bullshit cover-up 'investigations'.

[husaberg]

Your should probably read up on what those who were actually on board the USS Liberty have to say - rather than any of the bullshit cover-up 'investigations'.


I prefer the taped conversions and transcripts and supporting evidence from 9 separate inquiries and investigations of the Israeli pilots and MTB's repeatedly calling the ship Egyptian as being pretty compelling evidence that they believed it was an Egyptian vessel as to the motivation for the attack.
https://www.nsa.gov/news-features/declassified-documents/uss-liberty/assets/files/recordings/audio-trans-104.pdf
https://www.nsa.gov/news-features/declassified-documents/uss-liberty/assets/files/recordings/audio-trans-105.pdf
https://www.nsa.gov/news-features/declassified-documents/uss-liberty/assets/files/recordings/audio-trans-130.pdf

English transcripts of the released tapes indicate that Israel still spoke of hitting an Egyptian supply ship even after the attack had stopped.[ After the attack, the rescue helicopters are heard relaying several urgent requests that the rescuers ask the first survivor pulled out of the water what his nationality is, and discussing whether the survivors from the attacked ship will speak Arabic

A summary report of the NSA-translated tapes[97] indicates that at 1234Z Hatzor air control began directing two Israeli Air Force helicopters to an Egyptian warship, to rescue its crew: "This ship has now been identified as Egyptian." The helicopters arrived near the ship at about 1303Z: "I see a big vessel, near it are three small vessels ... " At 1308Z, Hatzor air control indicated concern about the nationality of the ship's crew: "The first matter to clarify is to find out what their nationality is." At 1310Z, one of the helicopter pilots asked the nearby torpedo boats' Division Commander about the meaning of the ship's hull number: "GTR5 is written on it. Does this mean something?" The response was: "Negative, it doesn't mean anything."
The eye witnesses cant actually asses the motivation despite like you having an opinion.
the only thing the crew and the Israelis differ on was the flag and considering it was not windy there was considerable smoke plus tthe fact hey were fighting a war its pretty easy to assume it could be missed. That along with the US not telling israel there was a US warship there, which is the accepted way of preventing such outcomes.

I notice both you and oldie love to focus on this one single incident rather than the numerous other occasions (read thousands)when friendly fire attacks happened that was nothing to do with the Jews.
Anyone else would think you had some sort of agenda..........


16–17 June 1968, HMAS Hobart, USS Boston and USS Edson were attacked by US aircraft. At 03:09, Hobart's radar picked up an aircraft approaching with no IFF transponder active. At 03:14, the aircraft fired a single missile at the ship which killed one sailor, wounded two others and damaged the ship. Two minutes later, the aircraft made a second pass and fired two missiles which caused further damage, killed another sailor and wounded six others. The aircraft came around for a third attack run, but was scared off when Hobart's forward gun turret, under independent control, fired five rounds at it. At 03:30, USS Edson, in company with Hobart, reported coming under fire, and Hobart's captain ordered both destroyers and USS Theodore E. Chandler to take up anti-aircraft formation. At 05:15, the three destroyers linked up with the cruiser USS Boston (which had been hit by a missile from another aircraft) and the escorting destroyer USS Blandy, and continued anti-aircraft manoeuvring. Debris collected from Hobart and the other ships indicated that the missiles were of United States Air Force (USAF) origin. The attacks on Hobart and the other ships were the capstone of a series of firing incidents between 15 and 17 June, and an inquiry was held by the USN into the incidents, with three RAN personnel attending as technical advisors. The inquiry found that a few hours before the attack on Hobart, Swift Boats PCF-12 and PCF-19, along with USCGC Point Dume, were attacked by what they identified at the time as hovering enemy aircraft, but were believed to be friendly planes; PCF-19 was sunk in the attack. F-4 Phantoms of the USAF Seventh Air Force, responding several hours after the attack on the Swift Boats, were unable to distinguish between the radar signature of surface ships and airborne helicopters, and instead opened fire on Hobart, Boston, and Edson.

[Viking01]

https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/but-sir-its-an-american-ship-never-mind-hit-her-1.5492908

[husaberg]

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-lie-that-wont-die-the-uss-liberty-attack-slander-continued/

[Viking01]

https://www.globalresearch.ca/israels-fifth-column/5652926

[oldrider]

I notice both you and oldie love to focus on this one single incident rather than the numerous other occasions (read thousands)when friendly fire attacks happened that was nothing to do with the Jews.
Anyone else would think you had some sort of agenda..........

Pot kettle black? ................. and you have no agenda? - Carry on and post/paste what ever you like people are not stupid they can make up their own minds. :yes:

[husaberg]

I notice both you and oldie love to focus on this one single incident rather than the numerous other occasions (read thousands)when friendly fire attacks happened that was nothing to do with the Jews.
Anyone else would think you had some sort of agenda..........

Pot kettle black? ................. and you have no agenda? - Carry on and post/paste what ever you like people are not stupid they can make up their own minds. :yes:

Only think is i don't post pro Israel or jewish material. I only respond to your stupid crap that you and shatman post.
Can you see the difference no one asks you to post the racist crap you do nor is it in response to anything that anyone else posted ,What you post is totally unsolicited anti jewish propaganda from a non bike riding old racist fool.
Practically everything you ever post these days is about how the jews are doing this or that to take over the world and are evil.
Its like the dementia has got a hold of you that bad now, you really believe you are Joseph Goebbels.
http://smoloko.com/wp-content/uploads/JosephGoebbelsMeme8.jpghttps://i.ytimg.com/vi/Dmw3PzOClzM/hqdefault.jpghttps://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1484671032831.jpg

[oldrider]

You really are pathetic but we love you! :clap:

[Katman]

You really are pathetic but we love you! :clap:

Not me.

I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire.

[husaberg]

Not me.

I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire.
Interesting how all you analogies involve you holding your cock.........

[Viking01]

https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201809241068279653-russia-syria-s-300/

[SPman]

http://thesaker.is/russia-will-establish-an-unofficial-no-fly-zone-over-syria/

[oldrider]

So who is/was Bill Browder? and who is Alex Krainer? - :confused: https://russia-insider.com/en/i-wrote-book-exposing-bill-browders-deceptions-because-he-could-trigger-major-war-russia/ri24782?ct=t(Russia_Insider_Daily_Headlines11_21_2 014)&mc_cid=21727cee20&mc_eid=4030a10227 :scratch:

Isn't this what Trump was really nominated and elected to actually accomplish?:- https://russia-insider.com/en/trump-dead-serious-about-attacking-syria-and-its-all-because-he-wants-fight-iran/ri24742 - It is his want. (Like Churchill and WW2)

[oldrider]

Bolton warns Iran of ‘hell to pay’ in impassioned NY speech:- https://www.timesofisrael.com/bolton-to-warn-iran-of-hell-to-pay-in-impassioned-ny-speech/ :wait: Pesky Russians still getting in the way? :confused:

[oldrider]

Israel takes improved Syrian air defense as a challenge. - :yeah:

Did anybody ever expect anything else? - http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50323.htm Orchestrated theatre anyone? :corn:

[oldrider]

Why on earth would Iran need nukes? - https://twitter.com/jamesperloff/status/1045505399288410113/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Eembeddedtimeline% 7Ctwterm%5Eprofile%3AHenryMakow&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.henrymakow.com%2F - Oh I see! :blip:

[husaberg]

Why on earth would Iran need nukes? - https://twitter.com/jamesperloff/status/1045505399288410113/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Eembeddedtimeline% 7Ctwterm%5Eprofile%3AHenryMakow&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.henrymakow.com%2F - Oh I see! :blip:


Nice one geobles so it was the communists that set fire to the Reichstag
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSDoQpXou9p2Eyen9YmIva9Ke2d1jkT_ _9SvNUjGkQ38dWW12_r6A

[oldrider]

Nice one geobles so it was the communists that set fire to the Reichstag
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSDoQpXou9p2Eyen9YmIva9Ke2d1jkT_ _9SvNUjGkQ38dWW12_r6A

You are obsessed with Nazis.:weird:

[husaberg]

You are obsessed with Nazis.:weird:

I am not the one endlessly regurgitating their propaganda.

[oldrider]

I am not the one endlessly regurgitating their propaganda.

You certainly make reference to them more than I do.

[husaberg]

You certainly make reference to them more than I do.
Who is the them you are making reference to all the time.
If you sincerly dont like being compared to a Nazi spouting propaganda, you could just come up with some different material than they used.

[oldrider]

Who is the them you are making reference to all the time.
If you sincerly dont like being compared to a Nazi spouting propaganda, you could just come up with some different material than they used.

You constantly refer to me as a Holocaust denier too but I challenge you to prove that - facts not just your opinion.

[husaberg]

You constantly refer to me as a Holocaust denier too but I challenge you to prove that - facts not just your opinion.
Constantly really, is that three times a week, four times a week, five times a week.

I just did a KB search and as far as i can see i have never called you those two words a holocaust denier
That said i have freely called you a racist bigot and antisemitic I will continue to do so as long as you choose to post racist bigoted and antisemitic material.
Posting David Irving was one of your more pathetic attempts.



With respect:- this guy and reality share a lot of credibility if we are not too brainwashed to consider what he has to say and why?

<iframe width="613" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/iwFzm6rZH3o" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>


Credibility.

Irving has no respect he is an antisemitic holocaust denier and a racist while these qualities may appeal to you because you are a bigot they don't appeal to anyone capable of any level of

2006 David Irving jailed for Holocaust denial.



This morning, when he arrived at court, Irving told reporters: "History is a constantly growing tree - the more you know, the more documents become available, the more you learn. And I have learned a lot since 1989.
"Yes, there were gas chambers. Millions of Jews died. There is no question. I don't know the figures. I'm not an expert on the Holocaust."

[oldrider]

Just your opinion and interpretation.

[husaberg]

Just your opinion and interpretation.

No Irving was proven to be wrong in court and the world is free to call him a holocaust denier.
Maybe seeing as you said i constantly refer to you as a holocaust denier you can back up your claim.
As i cant find a single post. where i have callled you that you much more than a bigoted old fool or racist or an antisemitic fool.
All of which there is ample evidence to support.

[oldrider]

No Irving was proven to be wrong in court and the world is free to call him a holocaust denier.
Maybe seeing as you said i constantly refer to you as a holocaust denier you can back up your claim.
As i cant find a single post. where i have callled you that you much more than a bigoted old fool or racist or an antisemitic fool.
All of which there is ample evidence to support.

Selective searching? - Search amongst your groupings.

I never claimed Irving was right or wrong I claimed he was an exceptionally talented researcher and raised counter information that was treated with totalitarian opposition.

You don't get that sort of reaction if you don't present an opposing view of facts that endangers the required narrative.

Irvine recognised that he was foolish in being thorough and factually accurate and that cost him dearly personally but he had to be true to himself as a researcher!

Your obvious bias dims your ability to study the facts and let them speak for themselves - alas such is your want.

[husaberg]

Selective searching? - Search amongst your groupings.

I never claimed Irving was right or wrong I claimed he was an exceptionally talented researcher and raised counter information that was treated with totalitarian opposition.

You don't get that sort of reaction if you don't present an opposing view of facts that endangers the required narrative.

Irvine recognised that he was foolish in being thorough and factually accurate and that cost him dearly personally but he had to be true to himself as a researcher!

Your obvious bias dims your ability to study the facts and let them speak for themselves - alas such is your want.

Irving is a holocaust denier who was found guilty of falsifying data and presenting it.
he claimed he wasn't a holocaust denier but was shown to be one in court
His misuse and editing of historic data to suit a agenda
does not make him a exceptionally talented researcher it makes him a liar and a bigot.

He still gives talks on how the holocaust never happened even though he has given sttatements acknowledging the existence of the hoocaust this makes him a hypocrite.

you on the other hand are happy to give glowing accounts of Hitler
post excerts from mien kemph.
telll everyone how you believe in the protocol of Zion
but deny you have a bias for doing so
you post amost dailly antisemitic posts but hide behind i only posted the links. i never said it was true.

[oldrider]

Irving is a holocaust denier who was found guilty of falsifying data and presenting it.
he claimed he wasn't a holocaust denier but was shown to be one in court
His misuse and editing of historic data to suit a agenda
does not make him a exceptionally talented researcher it makes him a liar and a bigot. (That's the official narrative, not necessarily the truth)

He still gives talks on how the holocaust never happened even though he has given sttatements acknowledging the existence of the hoocaust this makes him a hypocrite. (He is very dead just now!)

you on the other hand are happy to give glowing accounts of Hitler
post excerts from mien kemph.
(I have suggested that all about Hitler can not be necessarily bad! - I posted that Mien Kampf was available on line - I have personally never read it!)
telll everyone how you believe in the protocol of Zion
but deny you have a bias for doing so (I have read the protocols of Zion and believe it is accurate preview as to what is happening in the world, if that creates in me a bias, so be it)
you post amost dailly antisemitic posts but hide behind i only posted the links. i never said it was true. (There is always another view point - I like to present that, no need to hide anything)

Your interpretation only. - Observation: you appear to never properly read what's actually written in peoples posts.

Typical of wannabe social justice warriors they seem to be all teeth and tongue with no ears. - provocative true but thought it not out of place here.

I live by the assumption that a conversation in person would not simulate these keyboard pissing contests on KB.

[husaberg]

Your interpretation only. - Observation: you appear to never properly read what's actually written in peoples posts.

Typical of wannabe social justice warriors they seem to be all teeth and tongue with no ears. - provocative true but thought it not out of place here.

I live by the assumption that a conversation in person would not simulate these keyboard pissing contests on KB.
You post unsolicited racist crap while hiding behind a internet pseudonym.
As i have suggested to you write the same in the leaders to the editor of your local paper with you name and address and see how you get on.

With your prostate you would never win a keyboard or other pissing contest.

[oldrider]

You post unsolicited racist crap while hiding behind a internet pseudonym.
As i have suggested to you write the same in the leaders to the editor of your local paper with you name and address and see how you get on.

With your prostate you would never win a keyboard or other pissing contest.

Chuckle chuckle. :lol:

[oldrider]

Here he goes again - we have got them but they (Iran) must not be allowed to have them - or even think about them in any shape or form. :blink:

https://www.globalresearch.ca/netanyahus-latest-ticking-iran-bomb-stunt-at-the-un-general-assembly/5655462

Watch below Netanyahu’s speech at the UNGA.

<iframe width="690" height="400" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/4xCBbPnE3oE" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[husaberg]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c4/a2/ed/c4a2ede016bc4f772880893eff36c551.jpg

[oldrider]

A first - totally agree with husaberg. - :niceone:

[husaberg]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS0uchHN1Aiwr68hCnvwl8-iYwVNLJStM2RAmGJj0EiiuRysUV-GQ

[oldrider]

Pot kettle black?

[oldrider]

The US Military-Industrial Complex's Worst Nightmare: The S-300 May Destroy & Expose The F-35 https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-09-30/us-military-industrial-complexs-worst-nightmare-s-300-may-destroy-expose-f-35 - Watch this space? :wait:

[oldrider]

You post unsolicited racist crap while hiding behind a internet pseudonym.
As i have suggested to you write the same in the leaders to the editor of your local paper with you name and address and see how you get on.

With your prostate you would never win a keyboard or other pissing contest.

You might find reading this extract (Written by a Jew from a Jewish perspective) educational and enlightening?

"The author is the founder and editor of The Unz Review, a leading conservative American political website. He is also a silicon valley entrepreneur, and a one-time candidate for the governor of California. He was once described as 'the smartest guy in his class' at Harvard (Class of 2004)".

How I Came to See That Many 'Anti-Semitic Canards' Are Actually True https://russia-insider.com/en/how-i-came-see-many-anti-semitic-canards-are-actually-true/ri24367?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter :corn:

[Katman]

You might find reading this extract (Written by a Jew from a Jewish perspective) educational and enlightening?


Indeed, the only persons I’ve ever come across making such claims were individuals who bore unmistakable signs of serious psychological imbalance.

I see he's familiar with the Berk then.

[oldrider]

US Switching to Ukraine as Location to Start World War III Against Russia http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=177208 - American lust for war, like rust, never sleeps! :no:

[Swoop]

Ffs................

[oldrider]

Syrian War Report – October 4, 2018: Israeli Minister Says F-35 Jets To Be Used Against S-300 https://southfront.org/syrian-war-report-october-4-2018-israeli-minister-says-f-35-jets-to-be-used-against-s-300/ Stupid fucking war! :weird:

[oldrider]

More Cold War Extremism and Crises:- http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50378.htm - American politics today appear to be crammed with extremists? :wacko:

Questions perhaps those extremists should really be raising:- https://twitter.com/AWAKEALERT/status/1048014694135582720/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Eembeddedtimeline% 7Ctwterm%5Eprofile%3AHenryMakow&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.henrymakow.com%2F :scratch:

US Openly Threatens Russia With War: Goodbye Diplomacy, Hello Stone Age:- https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-04/us-openly-threatens-russia-war-goodbye-diplomacy-hello-stone-age

[oldrider]

Syria Got Three S-300PM Battalion Sets, Including 24 Launchers And Over 300 Missiles: Russian State Media https://southfront.org/syria-got-three-s-300pm-battalion-sets-including-24-launchers-and-over-300-missiles-russian-state-media/

The main advantage seems to be that Syria will be better able to identify Russian planes clearly.

[Viking01]

https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201810111068777815-usa-syria-iran-pompeo-aid/

[oldrider]

#MSM silent “1,700 emails in #HillaryClinton collection” proves she sold weapons to ISIS in #Syria #Genocide 470000 https://twitter.com/AWAKEALERT/status/760333139080163328/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Eembeddedtimeline% 7Ctwterm%5Eprofile%3AHenryMakow&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.henrymakow.com%2F

And much more.

[husaberg]

#MSM silent “1,700 emails in #HillaryClinton collection” proves she sold weapons to ISIS in #Syria #Genocide 470000 https://twitter.com/AWAKEALERT/status/760333139080163328/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Eembeddedtimeline% 7Ctwterm%5Eprofile%3AHenryMakow&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.henrymakow.com%2F

And much more.Oldie you may want to read the articles that feed relates to
None of the emails say what the claim is.
The claim is that some of the firearms may have made it to Syria if they were onsold.
If you look at the weapon of choice for ISIS you will notice they are not the weapons Clinton sold to other countries.
The ISIS weapons tend to come from your old mates the Russians.
So why is it all right for the Russians to sell weapons to ISIS.

[oldrider]

Oldie you may want to read the articles that feed relates to
None of the emails say what the claim is.
The claim is that some of the firearms may have made it to Syria if they were onsold.
If you look at the weapon of choice for ISIS you will notice they are not the weapons Clinton sold to other countries.
The ISIS weapons tend to come from your old mates the Russians.
So why is it all right for the Russians to sell weapons to ISIS.

Easy peasy - The CIA have their people everywhere always with eye for a bargain and mischief making.

Have a look here:- https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/how-america-armed-terrorists-in-syria/

[husaberg]

Easy peasy - The CIA have their people everywhere always with eye for a bargain and mischief making.

Have a look here:- https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/how-america-armed-terrorists-in-syria/

No thats not an answer
why is it alright for the russians to supply 100% of the weapons to ISIS directly
But if the USA supply some weapons to anoher country its a crime if some are unsold without the USA knowledge
Did you understand the claims made in your links are not the actual facts regarding H Clinton

[Katman]

why is it alright for the russians to supply 100% of the weapons to ISIS directly

Got a reference for that?

[oldrider]

Time To Rise Up Against Washington's Insanity? - http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50412.htm :wait:

[husaberg]

Got a reference for that?

.......................

The unauthorized retransfer of weapons originally destined for Syrian opposition forces has also proven a significant source of arms and ammunition for ISIS, particularly advanced anti-tank guided weapons systems. China manufactured 43.5 percent of all ISIS weapons documented in Iraq and Syria. Interestingly, Russian weapons still outnumbered Chinese weapons in Syria, something that's probably related to Russian arms supplies to forces loyal to the regime. Despite their haul of captured western hardware, U.S. weapons only accounted for 1.8 percent of all items documented between 2014 and 2017.
Putin's Russia supplies weapons to the terrorists of the Middle East
http://sprotyv.info/en/news/kiev/putins-russia-supplies-weapons-terrorists-middle-east


Russia and China, with 25 percent each, manufactured the most of ISIL's ammunition.
The proportion of ammunition made in the current decade (2010-17) was 15 percent, in contrast to weapons, two percent of which were made in the last seven years, according to CAR.
The report concluded: “These findings underscore the pivotal role that supplies of newly-produced, and recently-diverted, ammunition play in sustaining armed insurgency and terrorism worldwide.”

[Katman]

.......................

Putin's Russia supplies weapons to the terrorists of the Middle East
http://sprotyv.info/en/news/kiev/putins-russia-supplies-weapons-terrorists-middle-east

The only mention of ISIS in that article is this bit....


The Russians could not openly transfer weapons to militants, because Russia officially recognized ISIS as a terrorist organization. A number of operations were carried out, during which a staging of the assault of a number of bases of Syrian government troops was carried out by militants. The Assad troops withdrew without a fight, leaving bases and mountains of weapons. In fact, there was a hidden supply disguised as trophies. It is noteworthy that the situation changed later, and they ceased to act in this way.

Nowhere does it say that Russia supplies ISIS with 100% of its weapons and they don't even offer any evidence for these so-called 'number of staged operations' where mountains of weapons were supposedly left for the terrorists.

[husaberg]

The only mention of ISIS in that article is this bit....



Nowhere does it say that Russia supplies ISIS with 100% of its weapons and they don't even offer any evidence for these so-called 'number of staged operations' where mountains of weapons were supposedly left for the terrorists.

You might want to learn to read and comprehend
I said they supply 100% of the weapons directly.
Not that they supply 100% of the weapons you utter dick.

[Katman]

I said they supply 100% of the weapons directly.


Got a reference for that?

[oldrider]

The Middle East Airlift (OCCRP) https://www.occrp.org/en/makingakilling/the-middle-east-airlift/

[Viking01]

https://orientalreview.org/2018/10/13/international-relations-the-calm-before-the-storm/

[Voltaire]

Was watching Al Jazeera yesterday and it had the history of the West 'helping' Libya during the Arab Spring in 2011 onwards.
Some pretty gruesome video along with how the usual's bombed them into a country now divided up by warlords.
Must be Saudi Arabia's turn next, conditions are good, much like Iran in the late 70's.

[Katman]

Must be Saudi Arabia's turn next, conditions are good, much like Iran in the late 70's.

They were always going to have to give up a large chunk of land for the good of Greater Israel.

[Viking01]

Was watching Al Jazeera yesterday and it had the history of the West 'helping' Libya during the Arab Spring in 2011 onwards.
Some pretty gruesome video along with how the usual's bombed them into a country now divided up by warlords.
Must be Saudi Arabia's turn next, conditions are good, much like Iran in the late 70's.

Interesting to see your comments. Yes, the Libyan civil war and the overthrow of
Gaddafi was a nasty little business. Probably one reason why you didn't (and don't)
actually see much mentioned in the western press.

1. Libya

The overthrow of Gaddafi was engineered on the basis of R2P (Responsibility
to Protect), an approach pioneered earlier by the West (NATO) during the
breakup of Yugoslavia in the 1990's.

A pity certain UN nations didn't veto the Libya resolution:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/mar/18/libya-no-fly-resolution-split

And one of the reasons why Russia subsequently came to Syria's aid. Lesson learnt.

The whole Libyan business was driven by (i) access to Libyan oil reserves (ii) the
irrigation project planned for countries to the south of Libya (iii) gold dinar.

There was western concern over the Chinese gaining access to Libyan oil reserves.

Gaddafi has proposed the creation of a large irrigation project to pipe water from
huge Libyan water aquifers to inland countries, so as to develop agriculture in the
Saharan region and to help support their independence (from the West and IMF).

Gaddafi had proposed creation of a gold dinar, which posed two threats. One threat
was its use to underpin a new pan African currency, which could replace the USD for
oil purchases. It also threatened the continued use of the CFA (franc) currency used
throughout former French territories within north and central Africa. [ A condition
of granting "independence" to many former French territories in the 1960's was their
"agreement"to use the CFA, with all holdings and transactions via French banks.]

Sarzoky also had a wee issue regarding alleged election funding in 2007.

Hence the likely French willingness to front-foot the NATO R2P exercise in Libya.

If you want a few old newspaper articles to read on the above:

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2018/07/10/lessons-learned-from-nato-most-destructive-war.html

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/gy9d49/libyan-oil-gold-and-qaddafi-the-strange-email-sidney-blumenthal-sent-hillary-clinton-in-2011

https://sputniknews.com/analysis/201803291063038199-gaddafi-money-sarkozy-campaign/

https://eurasiafuture.com/2018/05/27/natos-war-on-libya-was-primarily-a-war-for-water/

And as much as the West derided Gaddafi, he was prescient enough to recognise one likely
major consequence of the NATO bombing campaign:

https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/25/bombing-libya-the-origins-of-europes-immigration-crisis/

2. Saudi Arabia

Think the issue for the West is not Saudi Arabia and its regime, but just MBS himself and
his recent behaviour in the Khashoggi episode. A major faux pas.

https://consortiumnews.com/2018/10/15/khashoggi-was-no-critic-of-saudi-regime/

For the West, there is too much money to be made selling weapons to the Saudi regime. Paid
in USD, and recycled back through western banks. Not to mention the suppressing of Russian
influence (e.g. OPEC ; sale of S400 missiles ; sale of nuclear power plants ; Saudi investment
in Russia)

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2018/10/19/mohammad-bin-salman-must-go-but-us-saudi-ties-here-stay.html

And Russia is not about to forsake its recent improvement in relations with Saudi Arabia:

https://russia-insider.com/en/putin-says-can-not-justify-sacrificing-saudi-relations-over-khashoggi-affair/ri25125

https://eurasiafuture.com/2018/10/22/russias-poised-to-reap-the-rewards-of-the-wests-fallout-with-saudi-arabia/

But on one front, at least one party is bound to be unhappy:

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/.premium-saudi-trump-iran-why-khashoggi-murder-a-disaster-for-israel-1.6569996

https://eurasiafuture.com/2018/10/21/the-khashoggi-murder-with-dramatically-strengthen-the-unspoken-saudi-israeli-alliance/

[Voltaire]

Erdogan is playing an interesting game, its not like he cares about Journalists,rights or Democracy.

[Viking01]

Erdogan is playing an interesting game, its not like he cares about Journalists,rights or Democracy.

https://eurasiafuture.com/2018/10/23/here-are-the-geopolitical-implications-of-turkeys-president-erdogans-speech-on-jamal-khashoggi/

Forgot to add second link:

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/10/23/jamal-khashoggi-death-saudi-arabia-221740

[Viking01]

Idlib continues to consume focus, but the real areas needing attention
are east of the Euphrates (due to oil wealth and its geo-strategic value).
And each day, the incumbents continue to consolidate.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/syria-the-creeping-partition/5657873

If Syria ever wants to evict the occupiers and reinstate its borders, it
still has a long road ahead of it.

[oldrider]

Idlib continues to consume focus, but the real areas needing attention
are east of the Euphrates (due to oil wealth and its geo-strategic value).
And each day, the incumbents continue to consolidate.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/syria-the-creeping-partition/5657873

If Syria ever wants to evict the occupiers and reinstate its borders, it
still has a long road ahead of it.

What Israel wants Israel gets - like the TV cheese adds say - "good things take time" - 3k to 5k years in the making? - Business is business! :blip:

[oldrider]

Since Sep 18, 2018, Israel has not attacked Syrian army or their allies' assets anywhere in #Syria. https://twitter.com/AWAKEALERT/status/1052002564965851136 -

Well, they will be working on it, that is for sure - and then? :rolleyes: Business as usual? :shifty:

[husaberg]

Interesting to see your comments. Yes, the Libyan civil war and the overthrow of
Gaddafi was a nasty little business. Probably one reason why you didn't (and don't)
actually see much mentioned in the western press.


What you don't mention was why Libya was demonized for in the first place which was state sponsored terrorism. It was not it was just his citizens providing money and support to terrorism like other counties, it was full goverment support.
Gaddafi was treated fairly when this stopped the trade restrictions were removed as soon as the behavior stopped.
So to say the Libyan civil war was caused by the west or because of any interests from the west is not a true reflection of events that occurred.

[Viking01]

What you don't mention was why Libya was demonized for in the first place which was state sponsored terrorism. It was not it was just his citizens providing money and support to terrorism like other counties, it was full goverment support.
Gaddafi was treated fairly when this stopped the trade restrictions were removed as soon as the behavior stopped.
So to say the Libyan civil war was caused by the west or because of any interests from the west is not a true reflection of events that occurred.

Perhaps you could provide some references or links to articles that reasonably
(i) show the former and (ii) show the linkage to the latter ?

[husaberg]

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/how-libya-got-list
https://repository.up.ac.za/handle/2263/6268
https://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/16/world/libya-admits-culpability-in-crash-of-pan-am-plane.html


Despite the dryness of the language and the distant tone of the admission, the letter nonetheless represented the first official acknowledgment that the government of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi was involved in the bombing, one of the most notorious acts of terrorism in modern times.
The United Nations sanctions, first imposed in 1993, were suspended after the two suspects were turned over to the court.

After the late-afternoon session today in Mr. Wehbe's Security Council office, Mr. Parry came out to tell reporters that the Libyan letter ''sets out very clearly their view -- now shared by the British and American governments -- that Libya has met the conditions set out by the Security Council'' for the lifting of the sanctions.
He then said he expected to introduce a resolution to lift the sanctions as early as Monday.


https://www.nti.org/learn/countries/libya/nuclear/

On 19 December 2003, the Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya (Libya) agreed to eliminate all materials, equipment, and programs aimed at the production of nuclear or other internationally proscribed weapons. Libya's then leader Colonel Mu'ammar Qadhafi admitted that, in contravention of its obligations under the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT) (https://www.nti.org/learn/glossary/treaty-non-proliferation-nuclear-weapons/), Libya had pursued a nuclear weapons (https://www.nti.org/learn/glossary/nuclear-weapon/)program. In 2004, the United States (https://www.nti.org/country-profiles/united-states/) and the United Kingdom (https://www.nti.org/country-profiles/united-kingdom/)dismantled (https://www.nti.org/learn/glossary/dismantlement/) Libya's nuclear weapons infrastructure with oversight from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) (https://www.nti.org/learn/glossary/international-atomic-energy-agency/).
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/the-rise-and-fall-of-libyan-leader-moammar-gaddafi/2011/02/21/gIQA32NsdJ_story.html

But by 2003, Gaddafi was on his way to a major reorientation of his relations with the West, particularly the United States. He was among the first Arab leaders to condemn the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. Osama bin Laden was an old foe, and Libya had issued an international arrest warrant for the al-Qaeda leader in March 1998, several months before the group’s first major assault on the United States: the embassy bombings in East Africa.
ibya soon announced that it was abandoning a secret program to develop nuclear weapons, and it destroyed chemical munitions. The George W. Bush administration lifted sanctions, and foreign investment and international leaders, including Britain’s Tony Blair and France’s Nicolas Sarkozy, made their way to Libya.

even your old friend russia today said this


Once despised as a sponsor of world terrorism, President Ronald Reagan dubbed him the “Mad Dog of the Middle East.”
But years later, Muammar Gaddafi’s friendship with the Western world blossomed.

“Ties between the United States and Libya have taken a remarkable and positive turn in recent years,” once said Senator John McCain.
Then in 2009, McCain tweeted, “late evening with Col. Gaddafi at his "ranch" in Libya – interesting meeting with an interesting man.”
Less than a decade ago, Secretary of State Condeleezza Rice announced the US was restoring full diplomatic relations with Libya, former British Prime Minister Tony Blair had no qualms doing business with Gaddafi and Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi got cozy with him at a United Nations Summit in Rome.

[oldrider]

Hook line and sinker! - but hey, your still free to obey - suppose that's got to be a plus of sorts. :yes:

[husaberg]

https://digest.bps.org.uk/2017/04/05/why-more-highly-educated-people-are-less-into-conspiracy-theories/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5248629/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-apes/201801/why-do-people-believe-in-conspiracy-theories
https://aeon.co/essays/the-intellectual-character-of-conspiracy-theorists
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3482408/Believe-conspiracy-theories-probably-narcissist-People-doubt-moon-landings-likely-selfish-attention-seeking.html

[Viking01]

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/how-libya-got-list
https://repository.up.ac.za/handle/2263/6268
https://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/16/world/libya-admits-culpability-in-crash-of-pan-am-plane.html
https://www.nti.org/learn/countries/libya/nuclear/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/the-rise-and-fall-of-libyan-leader-moammar-gaddafi/2011/02/21/gIQA32NsdJ_story.html
even your old friend russia today said this

Thanks for the reply.

1. Demonisation

It is quite easy for countries to end up being "demonised by the West" these days,
so that is a fairly low bar to jump.[ Some Western newspaper articles are wont to
say "demonised by the World", but that is more than just a little presumptuous.]

Accusations are easy and cheap to make. Proof takes a little more time and effort,
and not often forthcoming.

"Demonisation" (typically by the West) has generally occurred when a particular
country or regime has chosen to follow a path of independent thinking and action -
not follow instructions from those in the West that would seek to either control
it or to exploit it for gain.

Kim, Xi, Putin and the Iranian regime are all very familiar with this standard
propaganda approach. Not to forget the late Fidel Castro.


2. State Sponsor of Support / Freedom Movements

It had been said that "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter"

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/237933825_Defining_Terrorism_Is_One_Man%27s_Terror ist_Another_Man%27s_Freedom_Fighter

so the fact that Libya ended up on the list of US designated "state sponsors
of terrorism" is notable, but hardly significant.

The US may well claim itself to be "exceptional", but it cannot (despite all
its protestations) be said to "hold the moral high ground" re state sponsored
terrorism. Especially given it's very own actions over the past 50-60 years.

Vietnam, Central America, Iran and Iraq in the 70's, 80's and 90's all readily
come to mind. And let's not forget current US support of Saudi Arabia and its
military operations against the Houthis in Yemen.

The US adding its own name to the list (preferably at the top) would at least
recognise the hypocrisy inherent in it ever maintaining such a list.

It should be no surprise that Gaddafi was a supporter of various independence
movements around the world. Including the PLO in the Middle East and the ANC
in South Africa.

The second article you supplied refers to the period when Gaddafi was supporting
native African resistance to white apartheid when it was active in South Africa.
And when the ANC was formerly legalised in SA, Mandela visited Gaddafi in 1990
to thank him for his efforts and support.

So, two sides to this story, and it all depends from which side of the fence you
are looking.

3. Nuclear Program

Your point ?

Little different to the behaviour of a number of other countries around the world in
recent times.

And had the Libyan nuclear weapons development program ever progressed to any
significant extent (which it didn't) where it possessed nuclear weapons, the western
powers would have been very reluctant to instigate and support Gaddafi's overthrow
in 2011. Kim in Korea has demonstrated that point to the world quite adequately.

If you're ever going to discuss nuclear compliance, please do let me know when Israel
(the sole nuclear power in the Middle East) decides to declare its own nuclear weapons
holdings and to submit itself to IAEA supervision. And then I might start paying some
attention. Same rules for all players seems only fair.

4. Pan Am Flight 103 / International Sanctions

If we follow the Western press again, then Libya is definitely the villain (and Gaddafi's
own action in this whole saga didn't help his cause at all).

But like most stories, there is often another version. And what you wish to believe in
this case is completely up to you.

This is probably the most complicated to explain. I'll try and provide a little background
and then a short summary. See points (a) to (f) below.

If that's not enough, then feel free to read the three articles at the end of this section.

Summary:
(a) Gaddafi overthrew King Idris in 1969, and with subsequent nationalisation
of Libya's oil resources (to the detriment of certain western oil companies),
Gaddafi was then on the outer with western powers. And the ongoing operation
of his oil fields was still dependent upon western oil company expertise.

Similarly, the Shah of Iran was deposed in 1979 and the Ayatollahs then came into
power in Iran. Again, a similar outcome regarding oil field ownership and operation.

Net result: Unhappy western powers (US, UK, France, Italy) and some unhappy
western oil companies.

(b) The US prompted (supported) Saddam Hussein into making war against Iran.
This occurred over the period 1980-1988, but ended in a stalemate (with heavy
loss of life to both sides). And with the Ayatollahs still in power in Iran.

(c) In 1988, the US guided missile cruiser Vincennes brought down a civilian
Iranian airliner in the Gulf (Iran Flight 655) killing all 290 persons on board.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Vincennes_(CG-49)#Iran_Air_Flight_655

Needless to say, there was difference of opinion whether an "operational error" had
actually occurred. The Iranians were still understandably upset.

(d) Later in 1988, Pan Am flight 103 was brought down over Lockerbie in Scotland.
After a period of time, accusation was made by the West that the Gaddafi regime
was "responsible", and after some effort, UN sanctions were then imposed against
Libya in 1993.

However, there was doubt that the Gaddafi regime was responsible, and belief
that the Iranians had instead sub-contracted a Lebanon-based group (PFLP-GC)
to plant a bomb on the Pan Am flight in retribution.

The quality of the "case" against the Libyan regime is discussed in the second
of the three links below.

(e) Years passed, and both Libya's oil operations fell into disrepair and the
Libyan population suffered due to the effect of UN sanctions. By 1999-2000,
Libya's financial and social situation was becoming dire.

(f) By 2003, Gaddafi was willing to "accept responsibility" for Pan Am 103,
to extradite several Libyan staff to be jailed, and to pay some financial
compensation to the families of the people who died on Pan Am 103.

https://web.archive.org/web/20080711101024/http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2006/66244.htm

In return, UN sanctions against Libya would then be lifted.

And western oil companies were then able to return to Libya to take up oil
leases (and earn profits) again.

======

The following three links posted on CounterPunch explain the situation in much
more detail. But you'll need to read all three articles, then assemble the relevant
pieces from each article and join the dots yourself:

https://www.counterpunch.org/2011/08/31/gaddafis-libya-as-demon/

https://www.counterpunch.org/2010/07/23/the-frame-up/

https://www.counterpunch.org/2011/04/08/why-the-oil-companies-decided-qaddafi-has-to-go/

5. Gaddafi Downfall

By 2009, Libyan oil production and sales had started to rebound.

But Gaddafi had become involved with several pan African initiatives, which were in
conflict with some European interests. He had also agreed to purchase of Russian
armaments (which did not endear him to the West).

By 2011, China had also expressed strong interest in acquiring some Libyan oil leases,
which caused concern to the US.

You can read a good summary on the Gaddafi downfall for yourself in the following
article:

https://www.counterpunch.org/2016/10/05/the-dreadful-chronology-of-gaddafis-murder/

And while I can't currently find the relevant link, I recall reading that the Libyan
gold confiscated is currently residing in a US Federal Reserve vault. Good luck to
Libya ever recovering their gold stock in the future.

[husaberg]

Thanks for the reply.

1. Demonisation

It is quite easy for countries to end up being "demonised by the West" these days,
so that is a fairly low bar to jump.[ Some Western newspaper articles are wont to
say "demonised by the World", but that is more than just a little presumptuous.]

Accusations are easy and cheap to make. Proof takes a little more time and effort,
and not often forthcoming.

"Demonisation" (typically by the West) has generally occurred when a particular
country or regime has chosen to follow a path of independent thinking and action -
not follow instructions from those in the West that would seek to either control
it or to exploit it for gain.

Kim, Xi, Putin and the Iranian regime are all very familiar with this standard
propaganda approach. Not to forget the late Fidel Castro.


2. State Sponsor of Support / Freedom Movements

It had been said that "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter"

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/237933825_Defining_Terrorism_Is_One_Man%27s_Terror ist_Another_Man%27s_Freedom_Fighter

so the fact that Libya ended up on the list of US designated "state sponsors
of terrorism" is notable, but hardly significant.

The US may well claim itself to be "exceptional", but it cannot (despite all
its protestations) be said to "hold the moral high ground" re state sponsored
terrorism. Especially given it's very own actions over the past 50-60 years.

Vietnam, Central America, Iran and Iraq in the 70's, 80's and 90's all readily
come to mind. And let's not forget current US support of Saudi Arabia and its
military operations against the Houthis in Yemen.

The US adding its own name to the list (preferably at the top) would at least
recognise the hypocrisy inherent in it ever maintaining such a list.

It should be no surprise that Gaddafi was a supporter of various independence
movements around the world. Including the PLO in the Middle East and the ANC
in South Africa.

The second article you supplied refers to the period when Gaddafi was supporting
native African resistance to white apartheid when it was active in South Africa.
And when the ANC was formerly legalised in SA, Mandela visited Gaddafi in 1990
to thank him for his efforts and support.

So, two sides to this story, and it all depends from which side of the fence you
are looking.

3. Nuclear Program

Your point ?

Little different to the behaviour of a number of other countries around the world in
recent times.

And had the Libyan nuclear weapons development program ever progressed to any
significant extent (which it didn't) where it possessed nuclear weapons, the western
powers would have been very reluctant to instigate and support Gaddafi's overthrow
in 2011. Kim in Korea has demonstrated that point to the world quite adequately.

If you're ever going to discuss nuclear compliance, please do let me know when Israel
(the sole nuclear power in the Middle East) decides to declare its own nuclear weapons
holdings and to submit itself to IAEA supervision. And then I might start paying some
attention. Same rules for all players seems only fair.

4. Pan Am Flight 103 / International Sanctions

If we follow the Western press again, then Libya is definitely the villain (and Gaddafi's
own action in this whole saga didn't help his cause at all).

But like most stories, there is often another version. And what you wish to believe in
this case is completely up to you.

This is probably the most complicated to explain. I'll try and provide a little background
and then a short summary. See points (a) to (f) below.

If that's not enough, then feel free to read the three articles at the end of this section.

Summary:
(a) Gaddafi overthrew King Idris in 1969, and with subsequent nationalisation
of Libya's oil resources (to the detriment of certain western oil companies),
Gaddafi was then on the outer with western powers. And the ongoing operation
of his oil fields was still dependent upon western oil company expertise.

Similarly, the Shah of Iran was deposed in 1979 and the Ayatollahs then came into
power in Iran. Again, a similar outcome regarding oil field ownership and operation.

Net result: Unhappy western powers (US, UK, France, Italy) and some unhappy
western oil companies.

(b) The US prompted (supported) Saddam Hussein into making war against Iran.
This occurred over the period 1980-1988, but ended in a stalemate (with heavy
loss of life to both sides). And with the Ayatollahs still in power in Iran.

(c) In 1988, the US guided missile cruiser Vincennes brought down a civilian
Iranian airliner in the Gulf (Iran Flight 655) killing all 290 persons on board.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Vincennes_(CG-49)#Iran_Air_Flight_655

Needless to say, there was difference of opinion whether an "operational error" had
actually occurred. The Iranians were still understandably upset.

(d) Later in 1988, Pan Am flight 103 was brought down over Lockerbie in Scotland.
After a period of time, accusation was made by the West that the Gaddafi regime
was "responsible", and after some effort, UN sanctions were then imposed against
Libya in 1993.

However, there was doubt that the Gaddafi regime was responsible, and belief
that the Iranians had instead sub-contracted a Lebanon-based group (PFLP-GC)
to plant a bomb on the Pan Am flight in retribution.

The quality of the "case" against the Libyan regime is discussed in the second
of the three links below.

(e) Years passed, and both Libya's oil operations fell into disrepair and the
Libyan population suffered due to the effect of UN sanctions. By 1999-2000,
Libya's financial and social situation was becoming dire.

(f) By 2003, Gaddafi was willing to "accept responsibility" for Pan Am 103,
to extradite several Libyan staff to be jailed, and to pay some financial
compensation to the families of the people who died on Pan Am 103.

https://web.archive.org/web/20080711101024/http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2006/66244.htm

In return, UN sanctions against Libya would then be dropped.

And western oil companies were then able to return to Libya to take up oil
leases (and earn profits) again.

======

The following three links posted on CounterPunch explain the situation in much
more detail. But you'll need to read all three articles, then assemble the relevant
pieces from each article and join the dots yourself:

https://www.counterpunch.org/2011/08/31/gaddafis-libya-as-demon/

https://www.counterpunch.org/2010/07/23/the-frame-up/

https://www.counterpunch.org/2011/04/08/why-the-oil-companies-decided-qaddafi-has-to-go/

5. Gaddafi Downfall

By 2009, Libyan oil production and sales had started to rebound.

But Gaddafi had become involved with several pan African initiatives, which were in
conflict with some European interests. He had also agreed to purchase of Russian
armaments (which did not endear him to the West).

By 2011, China had also expressed strong interest in acquiring some Libyan oil leases,
which caused concern to the US.

You can read a good summary on the Gaddafi downfall for yourself in the following
article:

https://www.counterpunch.org/2016/10/05/the-dreadful-chronology-of-gaddafis-murder/

And while I can't currently find the relevant link, I recall reading that the Libyan
gold confiscated is currently residing in a US Federal Reserve vault. Good luck to
Libya ever recovering their gold stock in the future.
Demonetization.... its pretty easy to demonize someone where their regime has rules where if a citizen speaks against them there are locked up or killed you overlook that
You compare actions to the US but ignore Russia and China and Iran, this is a comon theme with your posts.
So Who gets arrested or killed for saying anything against the US leaders from their own country.
Can you say its the same for iran Russia or China
You claim it was about getting the Libyian oil but conveniently forget they trade embargoed it so how could it be that they really wanted it that bad.
You conveniently overlook that tensions and war in the middle east increases oil cost not lowers it.
Or overlook Gadiffis interest in Africa included breaching the trade embargo with Zimbabwe.
You appear to pick and choose only what suits a predetermined outcome of a conspiracy theory.

[Viking01]

https://www.rt.com/news/442449-istanbul-syria-summit-highlights/

Of course, I fully expect the announcement of the removal of any German
and French special forces and air forces from Syria in due course, as a sign
of their good faith and commitment. I will however resist holding my breath
at this stage. They may be a little pre-occupied by more pressing military
matters at the moment:

https://sputniknews.com/europe/201810281069299045-mattis-inf-europe/

[Viking01]

https://russia-insider.com/en/russia-will-decide-fate-syria-without-america/ri25241

[Swoop]

Well, they will not be seeing the Russian aircraft carrier off the coast in the future.

But a new class of submarine has been created.:rofl:

[Viking01]

https://russia-insider.com/en/breaking-trump-has-reportedly-ordered-rapid-us-withdrawal-syria/ri25729

I'll wait for the "Pentagon clarification" in two days time, just in case
Donald hasn't "mis-spoken" again (or been mis-quoted).

They didn't put any timeframe on it, so I suppose that gives them
plenty of leeway.

Wonder where the US troops will be off to now ? Ukraine in Winter ?
Suppose some snow would be a pleasant change after all that sand.

[oldrider]

President Trump said, “We have defeated ISIS in Syria, my only reason for being there during the Trump Presidency.” http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50803.htm :lol:

The world awaits trembling as to who will be selected as their next protectorate? :shit: - Tui moment anyone? :facepalm:

[oldrider]

Good Riddance to General Mattis and the Rest of Washington’s Mad Dogs of War? - https://original.antiwar.com/david_stockman/2018/12/25/good-riddance-to-general-mattis-and-the-rest-of-washingtons-mad-dogs-of-war/ - :corn:

[oldrider]

Russian MoD: Israeli Air Force Used Landing Of Two Civilian Planes As Cover For Airstrikes:- https://southfront.org/russian-mod-israeli-air-force-used-landing-of-two-civilian-planes-as-cover-for-airstrikes/ - :rolleyes:

[oldrider]

Donald about to discover who really is POTUS? - https://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-we-give-israel-billions-it-can-defend-itself-in-syria/ :shit:

[husaberg]

Donald about to discover who really is POTUS? - https://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-we-give-israel-billions-it-can-defend-itself-in-syria/ :shit:
Odd that gets your attention rather than the US government being in its 6 day of a shutdown over Trumps demand that the US pay for his border wall.

In subsequent tweets Thursday, Trump accused Democrats of “obstruction” in blocking money for the wall. He also contended that the party wants an “Open Southern Border” — which Democratic leaders have repeatedly said they do not want.
Meanwhile, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said in a Thursday statement that Trump “does not want the government to remain shut down, but he will not sign a proposal that does not first prioritize our county’s safety and security.”



The closure may drag into the new year. House Democrats have promised to pass a short-term spending bill to reopen the government, without wall money, when they take control of the chamber on Jan. 3. But Trump could threaten to veto it



Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, who will likely become speaker in January, is “calling the shots.”
Democrats appear uncertain about exactly how the president wants to spend that $5 billion. While Trump as a candidate called for a concrete barrier funded by Mexico, his demands have shifted. He has recently called for a wall, a “steel slat” barrier or a fence
“First of all, the fact ... that he says, ‘We’re going to build a wall with cement, and Mexico’s going to pay for it’ while he’s already backed off of the cement – now he’s down to, I think, a beaded curtain or something, I’m not sure where he is,” she told the newspaper.

[oldrider]

Odd that gets your attention rather than the US government being in its 6 day of a shutdown over Trumps demand that the US pay for his border wall.

Well this time I tend to agree with Trump on both counts but Kennedy trifled with Israel over the nuclear issue and Fed on monetary issues CIA on control issues .................. :bye:

When the puppet bights the hand of the puppeteer it tends to become serious shit very quickly - but of course I also believe that most of this is orchestrated anyway! :mellow:

[husaberg]

Well this time I tend to agree with Trump on both counts but Kennedy trifled with Israel over the nuclear issue and Fed on monetary issues CIA on control issues .................. :bye:

When the puppet bights the hand of the puppeteer it tends to become serious shit very quickly - but of course I also believe that most of this is orchestrated anyway! :mellow:

Trump told the US public he wanted to build a wall he made it an election promise
the US public never asked for it
Trump told the US public i will make the Mexicans pay for it.
Now he wants the US to pay for it instead and is attempting to hold congress to ransom over it.
Less than 31% of US tax payer consider border security as being important.
How many do you think want a wall that they will pay for..
I can see why you would agree with him it was probably mentioned on some religious conspiracy website that you should.

[Swoop]

Good Riddance to General Mattis

No.
He was a good choice. No nonsense or PC bullshit that the regressive leftists' love.
He will be missed.

[oldrider]

I can see why you would agree with him it was probably mentioned on some religious conspiracy website that you should.

What sort of crazy shit do you smoke FFS? :rolleyes:

[husaberg]

What sort of crazy shit do you smoke FFS? :rolleyes:

Did you read on a conspiracy website saying that would be a witty reply.

[Katman]

No.
He was a good choice. No nonsense or PC bullshit that the regressive leftists' love.
He will be missed.

He's just another war whore.

Fuck him. Good riddance.

[oldrider]

"In a special segment, Anya Parampil speaks with In Question producer Kei Pritsker to examine the roots of the special relationship between Saudi Arabia and the United States. Kei explains how the alliance is based on Saudi’s ability to manipulate global oil markets through its petrol production, as well as the fact that Riyadh saved the US dollar following the collapse of the gold standard in 1971. Saudi’s decision to only accept the dollar for oil purchases in 1974 breathed new life into the US currency, the viability of which was in question following the Nixon Gold Shock."


<iframe width="280" height="158" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Sb85TtHJaMs" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[pritch]

He's just another war whore.


Whether we like him or not Mathis was the last "sane" person in the room. He has been replaced as Defence Secretary by a former Boeing employee with no foreign policy or defence experience.

The new UN Ambassador is a blonde from Fox with no relevant experience.

The Acting Attorney General lied on his CV (normally cause for dismissal) and has lied to an inquiry about his role in an apparently fraudulent company. He ignored advice from the ethics professionals that he shoud recuse himself from overseeing the Mueller inquiry. He would be an optimist if he took his lunch to work.

Trump arguably offended against the Hatch Act while visiting troops in Iraq. His behaviour encouraged the troops to offend against the military code of conduct and he upset the Iraqis by snubbing the leader of that country. Normally there are people around who can advise against these fuck-ups - but not in the Trump admin.

It's reported that Trump was terrified during the tactical landing in Iraq. I can allow him that, it would be a wild ride.

[husaberg]

The new UN Ambassador is a blonde from Fox with no relevant experience.
.
Trump is on record as being impressed with her great credentials.
340023

[Katman]

Whether we like him or not Mathis was the last "sane" person in the room.

And he's doing nothing more than spitting his dummy because Trump's bringing one of his little wars to a close.

Like I said, fuck him. Good riddance.

[oldrider]

This article was originally published by "SCF" - " :- http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50839.htm :corn:

[pritch]

And he's doing nothing more than spitting his dummy because Trump's bringing one of his little wars to a close.



That is completely absurd. FFS read it up so you have at least some idea of what you're talking about.

[husaberg]

And he's doing nothing more than spitting his dummy because Trump's bringing one of his little wars to a close.

Like I said, fuck him. Good riddance.

You do realise that by pullling out the US troups he effectively condemns the Syrian Kurds to slaughter from the turks just waiting to cross the border and slaughter them.
Oh well i guess thats their problem, its not as if you give a sht about the Kurds now.

[Katman]

That is completely absurd. FFS read it up so you have at least some idea of what you're talking about.

You're entitled to your opinion - just as I am to mine.

America needs to pull their fucking head in and understand just how much the world despises them.

[husaberg]

You're entitled to your opinion - just as I am to mine.

America needs to pull their fucking head in and understand just how much the world despises them.
They hate Russia north Korea, iran pakistan israel more .
https://globescan.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/bbc2017_country_ratings-01-983x1024.gif

[pritch]

You're entitled to your opinion - just as I am to mine.

America needs to pull their fucking head in and understand just how much the world despises them.

For someone who has accused me of disregarding "collateral damage" your ignoring an apparently imminent genocide is startling.

Ergogan told Trump he wanted the US out of Syria, Trump said he'd go - over Bolton's objections. And Bolton has a record of wanting to bomb at any excuse.

The Kurds, desperate for an ally, have approached Assad. Assad stands to regain maybe a third of Syria under that arrangement.

The US withdraws, the Kurds face genocide, Assad and Iran get big gains from the completely irrational decision to withdraw 2000 troops and you're in favour, 'cause you don't like Uncle Sam? Not a good look.

[husaberg]

For someone who has accused me of disregarding "collateral damage" your ignoring an apparently imminent genocide is startling.

Ergogan told Trump he wanted the US out of Syria, Trump said he'd go - over Bolton's objections. And Bolton has a record of wanting to bomb at any excuse.

The Kurds, desperate for an ally, have approached Assad. Assad stands to regain maybe a third of Syria under that arrangement.

The US withdraws, the Kurds face genocide, Assad and Iran get big gains from the completely irrational decision to withdraw 2000 troops and you're in favour, 'cause you don't like Uncle Sam? Not a good look.

Don't worry he will still blame the yanks and the Israelis.
It makes you laugh that even though he considers he knows more than anyone else, he never even considered what possible effects the US pulling out would have.
Shame his Dad never pulled out.

[Katman]

The Kurds, desperate for an ally, have approached Assad. Assad stands to regain maybe a third of Syria under that arrangement.

And where's the problem with that?

[Katman]

Shame his Dad never pulled out.

No wonder Akzle used to bring your kids into the argument.

[husaberg]

No wonder Akzle used to bring your kids into the argument.

Akzle used to send messages stating how he would like to rape their kids in obsessive detail to multiple different people, not just me.
I can see why you would think thats okay. As any narcissistic attention whore troll would.
Odd thing is You dont mind handing out the abuse daily but go but-hurt feelings when its returned to you once and a while.
While some might say that makes you a massive hypocrite, i will lets the others judge.
Perhaps should start another poll

[Swoop]

He's just another war whore.
A person in charge of any military needs to be both a warrior and a Dove, able to act as the situation deems appropriate.
The military is controlled and directed by the political masters, so the "operators" of the military (politicians - and the voting public) should elect accordingly and also demand a competent leader - both applicable to the military leadership and also the political leadership.

[oldrider]

U.S Military Tech Firms Complain Israel Is A Security Risk | Great News? :scratch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=BbREHWf3FSU - :wait: - Time is our only real clarification tool.

[Swoop]

U.S Military Tech Firms Complain Israel Is A Security Risk.

It's the other way around.
The Septics have so many leaks, spies and hacks of their systems that Israel is a far safer place for companies.

[oldrider]

It's the other way around.
The Septics have so many leaks, spies and hacks of their systems that Israel is a far safer place for companies.

That is interesting. :wait: As I said - Time will reveal all but you have (theoretically) so much more of that than I do! :lol:

[Swoop]

3 January 2019.
The manufacturer of Russian smart bombs (KCRV) admitted, in a late 2018 media interview, that Russia discovered that its laser-guided missiles and fire control systems for dumb bombs were not prepared for the desert dust and heat conditions encountered in Syria. The problems were fixed but not before a lot of pilots (and Russian air controllers on the ground) complained that accuracy was often way off. Further investigation found that Russian laser designators were not equipped to handle the misleading heat and light conditions sometimes encountered on the ground. The latest fire control systems for unguided bombs, which worked quite well under most conditions, especially in European conditions, were often way off in Syria. KCRV urged the air force to use more GPS guided bombs in the meantime but the air force could not afford it, so accuracy suffered until the fire control systems and laser designators were modified. Making these admissions was a wise move because now that Russian missile and smart bombs are “combat tested” Russia enhances its reputation by demonstrating that their weapon designs are not perfect and they are willing to fix problems quickly and effectively.

[husaberg]

3 January 2019.
The manufacturer of Russian smart bombs (KCRV) admitted, in a late 2018 media interview, that Russia discovered that its laser-guided missiles and fire control systems for dumb bombs were not prepared for the desert dust and heat conditions encountered in Syria. The problems were fixed but not before a lot of pilots (and Russian air controllers on the ground) complained that accuracy was often way off. Further investigation found that Russian laser designators were not equipped to handle the misleading heat and light conditions sometimes encountered on the ground. The latest fire control systems for unguided bombs, which worked quite well under most conditions, especially in European conditions, were often way off in Syria. KCRV urged the air force to use more GPS guided bombs in the meantime but the air force could not afford it, so accuracy suffered until the fire control systems and laser designators were modified. Making these admissions was a wise move because now that Russian missile and smart bombs are “combat tested” Russia enhances its reputation by demonstrating that their weapon designs are not perfect and they are willing to fix problems quickly and effectively.

Might also be an excuse to why they are killing so many innocent civilians.
Note.No moral outcry from the KB moan about America committee on the Russians killing thousands of innocent civilians though.

[oldrider]

How many US troops have actually left Syria, Iraq or Afghanistan? - :wait: - :yawn:

[pritch]

How many US troops have actually left Syria, Iraq or Afghanistan? - :wait: - :yawn:

Somebody must have got to Trump, he has acknowledged that a withdrawal would place the Kurds at risk and that there is no time table for withdrawal.

The situation appears to be what was suggested before he was elected, he tends to agree with whoever he spoke to last.

[Katman]

Somebody must have got to Trump, he has acknowledged that a withdrawal would place the Kurds at risk and that there is no time table for withdrawal.

The situation appears to be what was suggested before he was elected, he tends to agree with whoever he spoke to last.

Because they wouldn't want the Kurds cosying up with Assad, would they?

[oldrider]

Syria Withdrawal Now Depends On Turkish Guarantee Not To Attack Kurds :rolleyes: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-01-06/syria-withdrawal-now-depends-turkish-guarantee-not-attack-kurds Seriously? - Not going to happen. :no:

Probably why?

<iframe width="280" height="158" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2amYcQI8vMI" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Swoop]

"Turkish Guarantee Not To Attack Kurds"

That headline will be right up there alongside "Catholic priests' promise to stop fucking kids".

[pritch]

That headline will be right up there alongside "Catholic priests' promise to stop fucking kids".

Yeah I see Bolton is now saying the US troops will withdraw when ISIS is defeated, and that the US will protect the Kurds from the Turks.

The Kurds have captured two American ISIS fighters. I note that some Yanks think that since these arseholes are US citizens they are innocent until proven guilty. I'm not a lawyer but they are in Syria, so US law would hardly seem relevant. The Kurds will probably treat them nice though, so as not to upset Trump.

[oldrider]

Nearly 295,000 Syrians return home from Turkey in 2018:- :shifty: https://en.zamanalwsl.net/news/article/39917/ - :corn:

[pritch]

Erdogan is discovering that none of Trump's utterances mean anything five minutes later.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/08/erdogan-us-bolton-turkey-syria-withdrawal-kurdish

[oldrider]

Erdogan is discovering that none of Trump's utterances mean anything five minutes later.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/08/erdogan-us-bolton-turkey-syria-withdrawal-kurdish

RT report on same subject. - https://www.rt.com/news/448293-erdogan-bolton-kurds-mistake/

[oldrider]

So this is the result? :scratch: https://www.rt.com/news/448685-israel-syria-strikes-eizenkot/ - :rolleyes: Orchestrated bs? :msn-wink: - If this report has any semblance of truth. - :yes:

[oldrider]

Senior Iranian MP Slams Russia for Keeping Syria S-300s Air Defenses Inactive During Israeli Strikes? https://russia-insider.com/en/senior-iranian-mp-slams-russia-keeping-syria-s-300s-air-defenses-inactive-during-israeli-strikes?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter - Claytons anyone? :msn-wink:

[Viking01]

https://russia-insider.com/en/congress-pass-sanctions-against-syria-reconstruction/ri26055

[oldrider]

Israel first? - what Israel wants - Israel gets? :- :yes: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-02-03/death-knell-syria-pullout-we-have-protect-israel-says-trump- The tail wags the dog? - Maybe the tail "is" the dog? :brick:

[oldrider]

How do the terrorists keep getting their munitions? :- https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-28/journalist-interrogated-fired-story-linking-cia-and-syria-weapons-flights

Journalist Interrogated, Fired For Story Linking CIA And Syria Weapons Flights - is war on terror orchestrated by world powers? :scratch: Why not?

[george formby]

Read an article this morning about Saudi and UAE supplying adanced weapons.. Can't find it again.

But found this.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/08/saudi-arabia-uae-implicated-arms-transfers-170827115154085.html

Bizarre, just searched my usual news feeds and nada. Probably read it in a British news feed. How unusual.

[Viking01]

Read an article this morning about Saudi and UAE supplying adanced weapons.. Can't find it again.

But found this.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/08/saudi-arabia-uae-implicated-arms-transfers-170827115154085.html

Bizarre, just searched my usual news feeds and nada. Probably read it in a British news feed. How unusual.


Evening.
On the contrary, just business as usual for Silk Airlines. There was an article published on SouthFront
within the last few years which highlighted how "old" Russian weapons were ending up in insurgent hands:

http://www.middleeastrising.com/journalist-interrogated-fired-story-linking-cia-syria-weapons-flights/

There is a corresponding image, but the only way I can retrieve it is to Google using "Middle East Airlift",
and then select "Images" (instead of ALL). Hopefully, there will be an image showing flights from central
Europe down to Saudi and surrounds within the first webpage of images returned.

Cheers

Edit: Re weapons to Yemen from both Saudi and UAE:

https://southfront.org/saudi-led-coalition-supplies-weapons-to-al-qaeda-in-yemen-even-cnn-admits-this/

[Viking01]

Read an article this morning about Saudi and UAE supplying adanced weapons.. Can't find it again.

But found this.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/08/saudi-arabia-uae-implicated-arms-transfers-170827115154085.html

Bizarre, just searched my usual news feeds and nada. Probably read it in a British news feed. How unusual.

GF,
The following article has perhaps the link you were searching for:

https://sputniknews.com/analysis/201902071072195454-Reports-UAE-Arms-Yemen-External-Actors/

One report from CNN, and the other from Amnesty International.

Cheers.

[oldrider]

School yard style bickering - he said I said you said push and shove bullshit not helpful. - https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201901211071672675-iran-air-force-eliminate-israel/ - :facepalm: