The journey that COVID-19 will take us on

[jellywrestler]

Don't think any other party would have done a better job, but yeah, the borders should be shut tight now. until when? even when a vaccine arrives there will still be 50000 antivaxxers that are at risk, and we will remain locked up forever protecting them, we will never ever win this.

nobody is going to want the death of an anti vaxxer on their hands, so we'll remain in this state for eternity, or until the suicide rate wipes us out.

[MaxPenguin]

until when? even when a vaccine arrives there will still be 50000 antivaxxers that are at risk, and we will remain locked up forever protecting them, we will never ever win this.

nobody is going to want the death of an anti vaxxer on their hands, so we'll remain in this state for eternity, or until the suicide rate wipes us out.

Fuck the anti vaxxers. It's their choice if they die, most are pro choice anyway.

[nerrrd]

Yeah I don't see that any other party's response would have been different, ultimately they all take advice from whoever is the requisite expert and act accordingly.

And I suspect, like we're discovering with the original lockdown itself, the legal ramifications of closing the border completely and making this or that mandatory may well be impossible under the existing framework.

Ultimately it all comes down to co-operation and people acting sensibly, which from the evidence of what's happening at the supermarket again are sadly in short supply.

[sugilite]

Well do tell us what to do then.
Exactly, the likes of DL assigning the "fault" to a political party that is acknowledged as being World leaders in the handling of Covid19 is par of the course for political left/right handicapped individuals.
How it is dealt with from this point, should be the actions upon which the current government is judged upon. So far so good, we all got alerts, clear and precise instructions from Government have been published by the media. I believe we have got this.

People can point their fingers at it being a failed border entry and thus the fault of the governing party. These same people seem to forget that a plane is not the only way to enter NZ. All it takes is some arrogant desperado/s to sail into NZ on a yacht and land on any of the hundreds of beaches available for such endeavors in New Zealand. So pointing the finger before facts are known, is well pointless - coincidentally, another gift DL is well endowed with.
Though if full lock down was ever enforced, I would encourage DL to rebel in protest and we can respect his squealings that will surely be emanating from his cell in prison.

[F5 Dave]

It was only last week John Key was saying that we have an economic crisis not a health crisis and was advocating easing border restrictions. Good one JK. His cronies would not have locked down as quickly, so let's not have a dumb argument about how it is the current governments fault.

Govt department incompetence is to be expected however and it doesn't matter who is 'in power'.

[TheDemonLord]

Exactly, the likes of DL assigning the "fault" to a political party that is acknowledged as being World leaders in the handling of Covid19 is par of the course for political left/right handicapped individuals.
How it is dealt with from this point, should be the actions upon which the current government is judged upon. So far so good, we all got alerts, clear and precise instructions from Government have been published by the media. I believe we have got this.

People can point their fingers at it being a failed border entry and thus the fault of the governing party. These same people seem to forget that a plane is not the only way to enter NZ. All it takes is some arrogant desperado/s to sail into NZ on a yacht and land on any of the hundreds of beaches available for such endeavors in New Zealand. So pointing the finger before facts are known, is well pointless - coincidentally, another gift DL is well endowed with.
Though if full lock down was ever enforced, I would encourage DL to rebel in protest and we can respect his squealings that will surely be emanating from his cell in prison.

So, the fact that the cases just so happen to be in South Auckland, which just so happens to be the site of our largest international airport - complete coincidence.

Now, getting to your Yacht BS - how long does it take to Sail to NZ - from most places that aren't Australia or the Pacific islands - I'm betting probably around 2 or so weeks (given that Australia is around an 8 day voyage) - so lets think:

You're on a Boat, with no one else except the people who you started the journey with, you can't come into contact with anyone else and you stay like that for 2 or more weeks...

Sounds almost exactly like Managed Isolation, doesn't it....

Add on top of that, it's not like we don't have a Maritime patrol network with P3 Orions and several surface vessels that could intercept people trying to get to NZ.

Regardless of the international Fawning over Jacinda - the fact that we 'beat COVID' and then through government incompetence let it back in, speaks volumes. Would any other party have done better? Probably not - but they aren't the ones in power, nor are they the ones being propped up as some form of Messianic figure - so Fuck 'em.

As for Rebelling - well, when the Government issues mandates that are in fact illegal, it is ones moral obligation to Rebel.

[sugilite]

So, the fact that the cases just so happen to be in South Auckland, which just so happens to be the site of our largest international airport - complete coincidence.
OK, I admit, I gone done looked at what sort of special lame you cooked up in your latest defend your position at all costs :lol:
Are there not a bunch of bays around the South Auckland area?


Now, getting to your Yacht BS - how long does it take to Sail to NZ - from most places that aren't Australia or the Pacific islands - I'm betting probably around 2 or so weeks (given that Australia is around an 8 day voyage) - so lets think:

Think huh? Well here you go "In October 2013, Big Bird set a new record for crossing the Tasman Sea in just 2 days 19 hours 2 minutes 45 seconds. They sailed in the Sydney-to-Auckland [1] direction. "
assuming they did not have the fastest boat, refer to next quote....


You're on a Boat, with no one else except the people who you started the journey with, you can't come into contact with anyone else and you stay like that for 2 or more weeks...

Sounds almost exactly like Managed Isolation, doesn't it....
So what your intimating is - after landing in New Zealand illegally wanting to avoid the authorities and bypass quarantine, you know for sure you don't have a disease that often does not show symptoms? Even if you get symptoms, you suddenly want to be socially responsible and get a test? Be interesting to see how it was detected, maybe someone dobbed them? Hope so.


Add on top of that, it's not like we don't have a Maritime patrol network with P3 Orions and several surface vessels that could intercept people trying to get to NZ.
Wow, with a super force like that, drug smugglers and the like don't stand a chance of getting in undetected along New Zealands VAST coastline.


Regardless of the international Fawning over Jacinda - the fact that we 'beat COVID' and then through government incompetence let it back in, speaks volumes. Would any other party have done better? Probably not - but they aren't the ones in power, nor are they the ones being propped up as some form of Messianic figure - so Fuck 'em.
Bet you would have posted different if National were governing.


As for Rebelling - well, when the Government issues mandates that are in fact illegal, it is ones moral obligation to Rebel.
Do it!

To say debunking your drivel is like shooting fish in a barrel, is an insult to the fish :laugh:

But, please do go on defending your position at all costs ;)

[TheDemonLord]

OK, I admit, I gone done looked at what sort of special lame you cooked up in your latest defend your position at all costs :lol:
Are there not a bunch of bays around the South Auckland area?

Awwww Honey, did you miss me? What is it with all these people that supposedly have me on an Ignore list, yet keep referencing me and responding to me?

Must be my captivating and endearing personality....

This is not 'defend at all costs' - this is 'what is the most likely and glaringly obvious culprit', we magically go 102 days without community transmission and then mysteriously people who live near our biggest international airport are detected with the Virus...

I might infer something different and sing a different tune if the cases were in the middle of Twizel or somewhere similar.


Think huh? Well here you go "In October 2013, Big Bird set a new record for crossing the Tasman Sea in just 2 days 19 hours 2 minutes 45 seconds. They sailed in the Sydney-to-Auckland [1] direction. "
assuming they did not have the fastest boat, refer to next quote....

So.... You're quoting a world-record speed as indicative of a typical time?!?!?! What is that about defending at all costs? That's plucking the ripest, most succulent Cherry if ever I saw it.

BTW - the 8 days - was from Yachting NZ as a typical time.


Wow, with a super force like that, drug smugglers and the like don't stand a chance of getting in undetected along New Zealands VAST coastline.

Why would they bother when they just send it through the front door and play the odds? It's much cheaper, can be done on a larger scale and is more efficient.

Speaking to several friends who work in MPI/Customs etc. - They are fully aware they can only inspect a fraction of what comes through, speaking to someone who works on Reefer containers at the ports - they have some horror stories about finding things they shouldn't have.


Bet you would have posted different if National were governing.

No, I'm pretty sure I've refereed to National as 'Political Cowards'.


Do it!

Who is saying that in my own ways I haven't? Maybe my form of rebellion isn't a big self-aggrandizing march with placards and screeched empty platitudes, but something more Civil and Disobedient.

[sugilite]

Awwww Honey, did you miss me? What is it with all these people that supposedly have me on an Ignore list, yet keep referencing me and responding to me?

Must be my captivating and endearing personality....
I was trolling you by referencing you, you wrote screes and screes to my few sentences :lol:
Anyways, yes if you want to believe your personality is captivating, so be it. I have taken you off my ignore list now.


This is not 'defend at all costs' - this is 'what is the most likely and glaringly obvious culprit', we magically go 102 days without community transmission and then mysteriously people who live near our biggest international airport are detected with the Virus...

I might infer something different and sing a different tune if the cases were in the middle of Twizel or somewhere similar.
Yes if course, living close to the airport is a prerequisite for for getting in undetected. How do you suppose they did it? Parachute out the escape hatch unnoticed? The ever popular, hide in the wheel wells and tuck and roll on arrival? Bungy? Wait no, that would just be silly :laugh:
Anyone smart enough to sail across would not be able to arrange a ride from a landing location eh? If course not :rolleyes:




So.... You're quoting a world-record speed as indicative of a typical time?!?!?! What is that about defending at all costs? That's plucking the ripest, most succulent Cherry if ever I saw it.

BTW - the 8 days - was from Yachting NZ as a typical time.
Well spotted, yes I did mention it was a record, shame you missed the part where I said "Assuming they did not have the fastest boat." But you know, defend at all costs, ignore what has been said yadda yadda.
So, ummm, you initially mentioned the yacht journey would likely take more than 14 days, so please refresh my mind, is the average 8 day journey time you mention in the above post longer or shorter than the recommended quarantine time?




Speaking to several friends who work in MPI/Customs etc. - They are fully aware they can only inspect a fraction of what comes through, speaking to someone who works on Reefer containers at the ports - they have some horror stories about finding things they shouldn't have.
Though I have still not run out of straw-men of yours I have been using to start my winter fires, I spose I can throw this one in the shed too. :yawn:



Who is saying that in my own ways I haven't? Maybe my form of rebellion isn't a big self-aggrandizing march with placards and screeched empty platitudes, but something more Civil and Disobedient.
So, a rebel in your own mind? Impressive :bleh:

[Katman]

I was trolling you by referencing you, you wrote screes and screes to my few sentences :lol:


I think you'll find it's 'screeds'.

[Bonez]

I think you'll find it's 'screeds'.Ju.st stop that you spelling bee hero.

No sorry that is Dr Sellulite and pritch.

Again my apologies.

[TheDemonLord]

I was trolling you by referencing you, you wrote screes and screes to my few sentences :lol:
Anyways, yes if you want to believe your personality is captivating, so be it. I have taken you off my ignore list now.

Well, eitherway trolling or not - Welcome Back.


Yes if course, living close to the airport is a prerequisite for for getting in undetected. How do you suppose they did it? Parachute out the escape hatch unnoticed? The ever popular, hide in the wheel wells and tuck and roll on arrival? Bungy? Wait no, that would just be silly :laugh:
Anyone smart enough to sail across would not be able to arrange a ride from a landing location eh? If course not :rolleyes:

I suppose this makes sense, considering it's 5 o'Clock somewhere.


Well spotted, yes I did mention it was a record, shame you missed the part where I said "Assuming they did not have the fastest boat." But you know, defend at all costs, ignore what has been said yadda yadda.
So, ummm, you initially mentioned the yacht journey would likely take more than 14 days, so please refresh my mind, is the average 8 day journey time you mention in the above post longer or shorter than the recommended quarantine time?

If it's 8 days from Australia, using the fastest route, then suggesting a longer time for everyone who isn't Australia (like I said initially) is likely to exceed 2 weeks - Now, where have I heard about 2 weeks enforced isolation before?


Though I have still not run out of straw-men of yours I have been using to start my winter fires, I spose I can throw this one in the shed too. :yawn:

I hope they keep you as warm as you think they will. The point however stands - Customs only inspect a fraction of what crosses the border and Criminals are constantly finding new methods to disguise illegal content as legit so they can ship it normally. This isn't the Florida Keys.


So, a rebel in your own mind? Impressive :bleh:

Maybe, Maybe not. It's not a subject I'm willing to give any further info on, so it's your choice as to whether you believe it.

[MaxPenguin]

As for Rebelling - well, when the Government issues mandates that are in fact illegal, it is ones moral obligation to Rebel.

Legal schmegal. What about ones moral obligation to help contain a virus that is spreading through your community, and some rebel you are, rebelling to uphold the law? Error isn't that ass backward?

[TheDemonLord]

Legal schmegal. What about ones moral obligation to help contain a virus that is spreading through your community, and some rebel you are, rebelling to uphold the law? Error isn't that ass backward?

The question becomes a philosophical one:

Which is worse: A Virus or Government Tyranny.

If the Government does something that by it's own statutes,is illegal - then we (the citizenry) have a moral obligation to oppose that. That is not necessarily to say that this is mutually exclusive to taking steps to help contain a Virus - but for the sake of argument, let's assume that they are.

I hold that at the very core of our western society there are a set of ideas and that these ideas are so fundamentally important that to override them, regardless of the nobleness of the intent, is wrong.

I further hold that everything that flows and every consequence from the continued implementation of these ideas is either Good or is the least worst. To that end, making sure that the Government abides by it's own rules is worth almost any cost (be that Financial or in Human Lives) because every time a Government or any governing institution decides it is above it's own laws - Tyranny and death follow soon after.

Am I a Rebel? If those statements make me Rebellious, then I put it to you that it is a far more damning scenario about the state of our democracy than it is any statement about my Character.

[Katman]

I hold that at the very core of our western society there are a set of ideas and that these ideas are so fundamentally important that to override them, regardless of the nobleness of the intent, is wrong.

So where do you stand on the question of mandatory vaccination?

[F5 Dave]

Lockdowns ok. Just as long as they don't bring back Being Nice.

That was getting on my Tits.

[Katman]

Lockdowns ok. Just as long as they don't bring back Being Nice.

That was getting on my Tits.

That's odd - cos you're awfully quick to have a little cry every time you feel that someone's being mean to you.

[sugilite]

I think you'll find it's 'screeds'.
Actually, I meant "screams" :msn-wink:

[MaxPenguin]

The question becomes a philosophical one:

Which is worse: A Virus or Government Tyranny.

If the Government does something that by it's own statutes,is illegal - then we (the citizenry) have a moral obligation to oppose that. That is not necessarily to say that this is mutually exclusive to taking steps to help contain a Virus - but for the sake of argument, let's assume that they are.

I hold that at the very core of our western society there are a set of ideas and that these ideas are so fundamentally important that to override them, regardless of the nobleness of the intent, is wrong.

I further hold that everything that flows and every consequence from the continued implementation of these ideas is either Good or is the least worst. To that end, making sure that the Government abides by it's own rules is worth almost any cost (be that Financial or in Human Lives) because every time a Government or any governing institution decides it is above it's own laws - Tyranny and death follow soon after.

Am I a Rebel? If those statements make me Rebellious, then I put it to you that it is a far more damning scenario about the state of our democracy than it is any statement about my Character.

You have no common sense, and please don't project a health response to tyrrany, that is not the case, and you know it, you are just trying to act intelligent, and not pulling it off very well .

[MD]

I think the incumbent Government did a fantastic job once Covid got into NZ and doubt the Nats or others would have done near as well. Shame they didn't take the border risk seriously enough. It wasn't rocket science. The ONLY way it could get here was by someone stepping onto NZ soil from overseas. Airport, port, beach, whatever. When you know EXACTLY where a killer threat is going to come from you would expect an appropriate level of caution and prevention to be applied. 200 to 700 people arriving everyday was not an appropriate level of precaution- as we sadly all learned last night.

A concern is the population is fatigued from the 1st lockdown and from acting like nice caring people. Look at some of the comments above about being a hero and rebelling against lockdown. Yeah lets be selfish and not try to beat Covid spread to spite the Government and see how that turns out in a couple of months- worked wonders in Victoria. Well unless you were one of the 19 people that died yesterday in Victoria.

There is a moral obligation to be caring, to hell with whether or not the Govt tells you too, all those around us face losing loved ones, losing our jobs and losing all the freedoms we have enjoyed over the last few months are about to evaporate.

I feel for those facing job loses, those businesses that struggled to survive lockdown, then got a taste of recovery only to have the mat pulled from under them.

[TheDemonLord]

You have no common sense, and please don't project a health response to tyrrany, that is not the case, and you know it, you are just trying to act intelligent, and not pulling it off very well .

In Uncommon situations, perhaps it's Uncommon Sense that is needed.

There are people - mainly those who have a strong libertarian bent (which is myself included) that have looked at the way various Governments and Government entities have acted during this and seen some rather worrying over-reaches by all of the above, to the point where people needed to challenge the Government, in court, to have their Rights respected. We are concerned about the Ratchet effect - something which is done 'Just this once' has a curious habit of happening again.


Is it Tyranny? Does the Police fining you for Walking your dog sound like Tyranny? or encouraging neighbours to report on people they see going outside to do Exercise? You will likely disagree, and that is fine. Myself and others see a thin end of a Wedge.

[MaxPenguin]

In Uncommon situations, perhaps it's Uncommon Sense that is needed.

There are people - mainly those who have a strong libertarian bent (which is myself included) that have looked at the way various Governments and Government entities have acted during this and seen some rather worrying over-reaches by all of the above, to the point where people needed to challenge the Government, in court, to have their Rights respected. We are concerned about the Ratchet effect - something which is done 'Just this once' has a curious habit of happening again.


Is it Tyranny? Does the Police fining you for Walking your dog sound like Tyranny? or encouraging neighbours to report on people they see going outside to do Exercise? You will likely disagree, and that is fine. Myself and others see a thin end of a Wedge.

Is wearing a helmet tyranny?

[pritch]

Well, another one to add to the long list of failed Labour projects.


But if they try and go for another big lockdown - they can get fucked.

I guess the advantage of that outlook is that it saves you thinking.

Considering we have, as yet, no idea how the infection occurred, any blame is premature and absurd.

[F5 Dave]

Fuk yeah let's have Sturgis NZ. That will show the man.

[jellywrestler]

Fuck the anti vaxxers. It's their choice if they die, most are pro choice anyway.

yip, but we know how the minority get the attention...

[TheDemonLord]

Is wearing a helmet tyranny?

Quod Tu Katman?

The difference between that and the current scenario is that we actually have Laws for the Wearing of Helmets (regardless of my personal feelings on the matter) whereas for a number of the Government's actions during the first Lockdown, they didn't.

How would you feel if you were fined for something that wasn't illegal?

[TheDemonLord]

I guess the advantage of that outlook is that it saves you from having to think up apologia and excuses for Labour.

fixed it for you...


Considering we have, as yet, no idea how the infection occurred, any blame is premature and absurd.

A fact which I do not contest, however there is sufficient circumstantial evidence to support a reasonable theory that the vector was linked to overseas travel (especially since that has been the vector for almost all the current cases).

This is after we were told ad nauseum by The Government, the Media and persons such as yourself that the fault lay with the rank and file workers and that this had been addressed and wouldn't happen again etc.

The Auckland Lockdown also comes after the Government had been tooting it's own horn about 100 days free of Community Transmission (Pride Cometh before the Fall?)

[Katman]

Quod Tu Katman?

I notice your answer to my question about mandatory vaccination is conspicuous by it's absence.

[TheDemonLord]

I notice your answer to my question about mandatory vaccination is conspicuous by it's absence.

Because you've been given the answer each and every time you've tried to play that card before.

[Katman]

Because you've been given the answer each and every time you've tried to play that card before.

Well it appears that you don't really know what idea it is that you support.

On one hand you claim that citizens have certain inalienable rights but on the other you appear to support the idea of people being forced to submit to a medical intervention against their will.

[TheDemonLord]

Well it appears that you don't really know what idea it is that you support.

On one hand you claim that citizens have certain inalienable rights but on the other you appear to support the idea of people being forced to submit to a medical intervention against their will.

Well, if you fail to understand the underlying principles then it would seem that way.

But as I said, you've been given the answer before, multiple times - if you either fail to understand it or deliberately refuse to understand it, that isn't my issue.

[Katman]

Well, if you fail to understand the underlying principles then it would seem that way.

But as I said, you've been given the answer before, multiple times - if you either fail to understand it or deliberately refuse to understand it, that isn't my issue.

I'm well aware of your propensity for attempting to weasel out of a question by claiming that you've answered it before.

So I'll ask again - where do you stand on the question of mandatory vaccination?

If you don't want to answer the question due to the fact that it may expose your hypocrisy, that's fine - just have the balls to admit it.

[TheDemonLord]

I'm well aware of your propensity for attempting to weasel out of a question by claiming that you've answered it before.

So I'll ask again - where do you stand on the question of mandatory vaccination?

If you don't want to answer the question due to the fact that it may expose your hypocrisy, that's fine - just have the balls to admit it.

"Your rights end were someone else's begin"

[MaxPenguin]

Quod Tu Katman?

The difference between that and the current scenario is that we actually have Laws for the Wearing of Helmets (regardless of my personal feelings on the matter) whereas for a number of the Government's actions during the first Lockdown, they didn't.

How would you feel if you were fined for something that wasn't illegal?

Depends on the situation. No point using irrelevant laws.

[Berries]

Fuk yeah let's have Sturgis NZ. That will show the man.
Or lets all bugger off from Auckland in the morning just before they shut the airport and spread it around the country.

auckland-arrivals-symptoms-booking-covid-tests-queenstown (https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/queenstown/auckland-arrivals-symptoms-booking-covid-tests-queenstown)

You never know, might even score two extra free weeks of accommodation out of it. Inconsiderate pricks.

[Katman]

"Your rights end were someone else's begin"

If that's your answer to the question of where you stand on mandatory vaccination, then it's a ridiculous answer.

It would be perfectly fair to say that refusing to be vaccinated doesn't impinge on anyone else's rights any more than flouting lockdown rules might.

In fact, it would quite possibly be a whole lot less.

[TheDemonLord]

If that's your answer to the question of where you stand on mandatory vaccination, then it's a ridiculous answer.

Why, because it succinctly shows why your attempt is Foolish?


It would be perfectly fair to say that refusing to be vaccinated doesn't impinge on anyone else's rights

Unless, you infect them and they die. Even more so when it is a preventable disease (which Covid is not)


any more than flouting lockdown rules might.

In fact, it would quite possibly be a whole lot less.

Well, this is where we get into the Nuance of the issue - my biggest gripes about the infringement of Civil Liberties were:

1: The Police stopping people from doing things that comply with the lockdown protocols but were not 'prescribed' activities
2: The Government stopping people from doing something without the legislative authority to do so
3: Failure(s) on the part of the Government to uphold their side of the implied bargain of a nationwide lockdown

[Katman]

Why, because it succinctly shows why your attempt is Foolish?

My attempt at what?

You're the one proclaiming libertarian values when it suits - and then failing to see how those same values don't fit with your stance on a different matter.

[TheDemonLord]

My attempt at what?

You're the one proclaiming libertarian values when it suits - and then failing to see how those same values don't fit with your stance on a different matter.

Except they do.

[Katman]

Except they do.

No they don't.

There is nothing libertarian about forcing someone to submit to a medical intervention (particularly one that is nothing more than a speculative precaution) against their will.

[Berries]

So there's a vaccine?

[Katman]

So there's a vaccine?

Yeah.

Get yours here (https://westcoast.recollect.co.nz/nodes/view/16524).

[RDJ]

Yeah.

Get yours here (https://westcoast.recollect.co.nz/nodes/view/16524).

The ignorant fuckwittery is strong with this one.

[F5 Dave]

C'mon guys.
Be Kind.


Ahh goddamit.

[TheDemonLord]

No they don't.

There is nothing libertarian about forcing someone to submit to a medical intervention (particularly one that is nothing more than a speculative precaution) against their will.

It really does - because you've effectively just made this Argument:

"This is a Free Country, you can't stop my swinging my fists in the air!"

To which my rebuttal was derived from the form

"Your liberty to swing your fists in the air stops where my Nose begins"

As I said: That you don't understand it (willfully or otherwise), is not my issue - you've been given the answer repeatedly, it's now up to you to comprehend it.

[Katman]

It really does - because you've effectively just made this Argument:

"This is a Free Country, you can't stop my swinging my fists in the air!"

To which my rebuttal was derived from the form

"Your liberty to swing your fists in the air stops where my Nose begins"

As I said: That you don't understand it (willfully or otherwise), is not my issue - you've been given the answer repeatedly, it's now up to you to comprehend it.

Will you be wearing your mask like you're told to?

[RDJ]

Will you be wearing your mask like you're told to?

Why should you care? Cower away: what other people do will not save your ass.

[Katman]

Why should you care?

Well I don't really care.

It was just part of the point I was making.

[Berries]

Yeah.

Get yours here (https://westcoast.recollect.co.nz/nodes/view/16524).
Thought your workshop would be bigger than that to be honest.

[RDJ]

Thought your workshop would be bigger than that to be honest.

Yes, he'd need a hangar to contain his ego.

[Viking01]

Scotty,
You're not playing "hard and loose" with the facts, are you, mate ?

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/australia-covid19-vaccine-deal-intent-2020-8

Hope the vaccine works as intended.

See that overnight, one of the Russian trial group (for the Russian vaccine) had an allergic reaction and had to be hospitalised:

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/my-death-wouldn-t-help-putin-rival-said-before-suspected-tea-poisoning-20200821-p55nul.html

[pritch]

Scotty,
You're not playing "hard and loose" with the facts, are you, mate ?


I begin to understand why some Australians refer to him as 'Scotty from Marketing'.

[R650R]

Well well well, our journey into communist hell continues.

There has only been 1650 alleged cases (out of 700,000 tests!!!!) of the virus, but what has spread faster has been submission to communist control.
Nearly 2 million have downloaded the Covid app so you can be sent to a govt “ health” camp to catch the virus if you didnt already have it.

But yay 3 million kiwis have said no to turning their phone into govt spy device.

Tommorow is D-day, public transport will be the barometer of how many of us have rolled belly up to mask wearing.
Hopefully most will say screw this shit and drive their cars to work.

You don’t have to wear a mask if it affects your physical or mental health and you do NOT need to present documents to prove this.

Out and about it’s refreshing to see nearly No one scanning the qr code thingy.

It’s quite clear now as the mountain of contradictions grow that it’s not about stopping the “virus”..


Masks are for destroying social interaction and communication with strangers. You know those moments in life when some shitbag is bashing his missus and enough of you make visual contact to know you’ve got each other back and intervene.
But with masks there will never be any Flight 93 “lets roll” moments of bravery, you’ll never know if your fellow citizen is a Karen or Stasi as you reluctantly board the blacked out train carriage...
A cop will never see your friendly smile, never know you like them and not let you off that minor stop sign indescretion...

[F5 Dave]

A virus is a tiny organism with no brain but replicates like buggery. It doesn't care about your civil liberties.

The question is; Are we smarter than it? Or is it smarter than us?

I think we have an answer.

[MaxPenguin]

Well well well, our journey into communist hell continues.

There has only been 1650 alleged cases (out of 700,000 tests!!!!) of the virus, but what has spread faster has been submission to communist control.
Nearly 2 million have downloaded the Covid app so you can be sent to a govt “ health” camp to catch the virus if you didnt already have it.

But yay 3 million kiwis have said no to turning their phone into govt spy device.

Tommorow is D-day, public transport will be the barometer of how many of us have rolled belly up to mask wearing.
Hopefully most will say screw this shit and drive their cars to work.

You don’t have to wear a mask if it affects your physical or mental health and you do NOT need to present documents to prove this.

Out and about it’s refreshing to see nearly No one scanning the qr code thingy.

It’s quite clear now as the mountain of contradictions grow that it’s not about stopping the “virus”..


Masks are for destroying social interaction and communication with strangers. You know those moments in life when some shitbag is bashing his missus and enough of you make visual contact to know you’ve got each other back and intervene.
But with masks there will never be any Flight 93 “lets roll” moments of bravery, you’ll never know if your fellow citizen is a Karen or Stasi as you reluctantly board the blacked out train carriage...
A cop will never see your friendly smile, never know you like them and not let you off that minor stop sign indescretion...

Aaàah, does snowflake not understand pandemics?

[MaxPenguin]

A virus is a tiny organism with no brain but replicates like buggery. It doesn't care about your civil liberties.

The question is; Are we smarter than it? Or is it smarter than us?

I think we have an answer.

It is smarter than the poster prior to your one, and the fuckwits who link wearing a mask in a pandemic to some sort of communist takeover.

[pete376403]

For the paranoid among us, the masks may be a salvation. New Police facial recognition system can capture from CCTV streams - https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12360871

[JATZ]

A virus is a tiny organism with no brain but replicates like buggery. It doesn't care about your civil liberties.

The question is; Are we smarter than it? Or is it smarter than us?

I think we have an answer.
That's very diplomatic. I would've just called him a stupid cunt if he truly believed that shite.

[MaxPenguin]

That's very diplomatic. I would've just called him a stupid cunt if he truly believed that shite.

Yes, to believe that you do need to be a stupid cunt, but to be pc you should say they are self interested, scared and uneducated.

[pritch]

Trump has sidelined his top infectious diseases expert, Dr Fauci, who has not appeared at one of Trump's 'briefings' since April. He has appointed a new man, from Fox News of course. Yes, he is a Doctor, a radiologist in fact. Reportedly his CV contains no references to public health, epidemiology, or viruses. Then again, as a radiologist you wouldn't expect it to. Basically he's completely unqualified for the job.

[husaberg]

Trump has sidelined his top infectious diseases expert, Dr Fauci, who has not appeared at one of Trump's 'briefings' since April. He has appointed a new man, from Fox News of course. Yes, he is a Doctor, a radiologist in fact. Reportedly his CV contains no references to public health, epidemiology, or viruses. Then again, as a radiologist you wouldn't expect it to. Basically he's completely unqualified for the job.

Anthony Stephen Fauci is an American physician and immunologist who has served as the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases since 1984 vs random guy from Fox that might be slightly plausible if you squint but definitely far more pliable.
Dont worry trump says hes handled Covid far better than anywhere else.
Word is He even insisted the Covid relief Cheques get delayed so they could bear his name so he could take credit for it personally.
https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/106514776-1588262659494gettyimages-1221870060.jpeg

[R650R]

Trump has sidelined his top infectious diseases expert, Dr Fauci, who has not appeared at one of Trump's 'briefings' since April. He has appointed a new man, from Fox News of course. Yes, he is a Doctor, a radiologist in fact. Reportedly his CV contains no references to public health, epidemiology, or viruses. Then again, as a radiologist you wouldn't expect it to. Basically he's completely unqualified for the job.

But he did visit the Wuhan lab several years ago with Obama and gave them 1.5$M of taxpayer money....

[R650R]

Aaàah, does snowflake not understand pandemics?

The noun Pandemic is not mentioned in that post, does one not understand grammar.

Every disease is a Pandemic in the modern world as they all spread “across the country or roundvthe world”.

1600 people sick in a country of 5 million is no crisis worth destroying jobs and lives for.

[MaxPenguin]

The noun Pandemic is not mentioned in that post, does one not understand grammar.

Every disease is a Pandemic in the modern world as they all spread “across the country or roundvthe world”.

1600 people sick in a country of 5 million is no crisis worth destroying jobs and lives for.

Ssssshhhh someone might mention that covid19 is running rampant all around the world

[Bonez]

Well well well, our journey into communist hell continues.

There has only been 1650 alleged cases (out of 700,000 tests!!!!) of the virus, but what has spread faster has been submission to communist control.
Nearly 2 million have downloaded the Covid app so you can be sent to a govt “ health” camp to catch the virus if you didnt already have it.

But yay 3 million kiwis have said no to turning their phone into govt spy device.

Tommorow is D-day, public transport will be the barometer of how many of us have rolled belly up to mask wearing.
Hopefully most will say screw this shit and drive their cars to work.

You don’t have to wear a mask if it affects your physical or mental health and you do NOT need to present documents to prove this.

Out and about it’s refreshing to see nearly No one scanning the qr code thingy.

It’s quite clear now as the mountain of contradictions grow that it’s not about stopping the “virus”..


Masks are for destroying social interaction and communication with strangers. You know those moments in life when some shitbag is bashing his missus and enough of you make visual contact to know you’ve got each other back and intervene.
But with masks there will never be any Flight 93 “lets roll” moments of bravery, you’ll never know if your fellow citizen is a Karen or Stasi as you reluctantly board the blacked out train carriage...
A cop will never see your friendly smile, never know you like them and not let you off that minor stop sign indescretion...Personally I really don't know if you are serious or not. If the post is just a troll well done. If you really think that is what is happening you forgot the to mention that the Gummerment is preparing us for the invasion of one eyed, green skinned, three legged extraterrestrial aliens....:confused:

[Bonez]

Aaàah, does snowflake not understand pandemics?Are you positive you are not me posting under another KB user account name?:eek:

[MaxPenguin]

Are you positive you are not me posting under another KB user account name?:eek:

Yes I (we) am positive you(me) are not me(us).

[Bonez]

Yes I (we) am positive you(me) are not me(us).Thank you very much for clearing that up.:innocent:

[nerrrd]

The noun Pandemic is not mentioned in that post, does one not understand grammar.

Every disease is a Pandemic in the modern world as they all spread “across the country or roundvthe world”.

1600 people sick in a country of 5 million is no crisis worth destroying jobs and lives for.

One certainly appears not to understand cause and effect.

Those numbers are the result of the measures taken, you can’t use them as a justification for retrospectively not doing them.

[pritch]

Well that was fast...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/09/02/sturgis-rally-death-coronavirus/

[Viking01]

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2020/09/fauci-says-covid-vaccine-trials-could-end-early-if-results-are-overwhelming.html

[Bonez]

Well that was fast...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/09/02/sturgis-rally-death-coronavirus/Posting a link without any indication of the content again? Some of us will not click on those links. This is good internet procedure btw. It's again obvious you don't have a clue how to make a proper post to provide relevant, accurate, verifiable information from a credible source.:no:

Apparently Viking01 needs to buy a clue as well.

Now in what four year thread have we all seen these before?

[Viking01]

Posting a link without any indication of the content again? Some of us will not click on those links. This is good internet procedure btw. It's again obvious you don't have a clue how to make a proper post to provide relevant, accurate, verifiable information from a credible source.:no:

Apparently Viking01 needs to buy a clue as well.

Now in what four year thread have we all seen these before?

Thought that the main thread title would be enough for you.

I see that you have taken over fact checking duties as well.

[F5 Dave]

Every country that
'Went Soft and Went Late'
has had worse economic consequences on top of a larger human toll and still had to lockdown anyway.

As well is the ticking time bomb of the worrying amount of 'recovered' people who have apparently suffered permanent lung damage as a result. 10-20yrs time might see the economic fallout from that.

No one is suggesting that we as a country did everything right. Or in fact that things might not get out of control in next couple of years. But at least we tried. Hopefully we succeed.

[Bonez]

Thought that the main thread title would be enough for you.

I see that you have taken over fact checking duties as well.Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups.

Please provide accurate credible reliable and verifiable evidence of that Viking01.

[Bonez]

Every country that
'Went Soft and Went Late'
has had worse economic consequences on top of a larger human toll and still had to lockdown anyway.

As well is the ticking time bomb of the worrying amount of 'recovered' people who have apparently suffered permanent lung damage as a result. 10-20yrs time might see the economic fallout from that.

No one is suggesting that we as a country did everything right. Or in fact that things might not get out of control in next couple of years. But at least we tried. Hopefully we succeed.Spot on.:niceone:

[MaxPenguin]

Every country that
'Went Soft and Went Late'
has had worse economic consequences on top of a larger human toll and still had to lockdown anyway.

As well is the ticking time bomb of the worrying amount of 'recovered' people who have apparently suffered permanent lung damage as a result. 10-20yrs time might see the economic fallout from that.

No one is suggesting that we as a country did everything right. Or in fact that things might not get out of control in next couple of years. But at least we tried. Hopefully we succeed.

Agreed, one of the things that should have been done earlier was to use military personnel at borders and quarantine facilities. My guess is the reason they didn't was because of the snowflakes that think it is part of a Bill Gates child slavery conspiracy bullshit dumfuckery plandemic. So thanks again you selfish dimwitted cockheads for making it worse than it needed to be.

[Bonez]

Agreed, one of the things that should have been done earlier was to use military personnel at borders and quarantine facilities. My guess is the reason they didn't was because of the snowflakes that think it is part of a Bill Gates child slavery conspiracy bullshit dumfuckery plandemic. So thanks again you selfish dimwitted cockheads for making it worse than it needed to be.Two for two :niceone:

It would appear we are on a spring roll....

Because of all the Whoo Haaaa on the radio I was expecting military types with barriers on the main routes out of town during lock down. They weren't so I went for a ride...:scooter:

[F5 Dave]

I'm glad I wasn't in charge. I'd like to think I'd make decisive decisions and identify shortcomings of govt departments that aren't set up for this sort of thing.

But if I'm honest I probably would have wasted time dithering over what to do with high stakes and no real experience.

Hopefully a rulebook is being etched in policy to turn to for future.

[Bonez]

You'll probably find the military have a plan to put down the Zombie Apocalypse but the Gummmerment didn't consult Defense Headquarters for advice.:facepalm:

[MaxPenguin]

I'm glad I wasn't in charge. I'd like to think I'd make decisive decisions and identify shortcomings of govt departments that aren't set up for this sort of thing.

But if I'm honest I probably would have wasted time dithering over what to do with high stakes and no real experience.

Hopefully a rulebook is being etched in policy to turn to for future.

One rule should be that any election during a pandemic shoild be postponed until after the pandemic has passed to stop it being politicized.

[eldog]

One rule should be that any election during a pandemic shoild be postponed until after the pandemic has passed to stop it being politicized.

Goes out the back to get more pandemic supplies, new method of staying in gubbermint control.
like that’s never happened before, ‘we are protecting you for you own sake’
where have I heard that before?

plans on riding bike, covid or not.

[MaxPenguin]

Goes out the back to get more pandemic supplies, new method of staying in gubbermint control.
like that’s never happened before, ‘we are protecting you for you own sake’
where have I heard that before?

plans on riding bike, covid or not.

Nah you been listening to fear mongering conmen wannabe politicians.

Every country in the world didn't get together and plan this or any future global pandemic, the logistics are impossible.

[Bonez]

One rule should be that any election during a pandemic shoild be postponed until after the pandemic has passed to stop it being politicized.That would be silly. It could be two years away until things get under control.

[eldog]

Nah you been listening to fear mongering conmen wannabe politicians.

Every country in the world didn't get together and plan this or any future global pandemic, the logistics are impossible.

Fear not, Listening to no one.

not thinking about every country getting together.
only thinking about countries by themselves.

I notice Sweden’s covid response or lack has been silenced.

we did survive previous pandemics, Black Plague etc.

and FYI the Chinese whispers can get you into hot water.:psst:when people make assumptions without asking the people being talked about.

[eldog]

That would be silly. It could be two years away until things get under control.

Only 2?:banana:

[pete376403]

One rule should be that any election during a pandemic shoild be postponed until after the pandemic has passed to stop it being politicized.

That would be a very good incentive for the government of the day to make sure it was never fully under control, that there would always be a "we've nearly got it but we need to be 100% sure, for the safety of the people" which of course would never happen

[MaxPenguin]

That would be silly. It could be two years away until things get under control.

Yeah well it could have some holes in it, but I am sure you could chuck some rules at it to make it work.

[Bonez]

Only 2?:banana:Note the "could be":rolleyes: Could be more.

[Kickaha]

I notice Sweden’s covid response or lack has been silenced.


Their top guy admitted they got it wrong and that the death toll was a lot worse that what they thought it would be

[pritch]

Only 2?:banana:

Apparently the fastest vaccine ever took five* years. There is another virus for which we are still awaiting a vaccine after decades: AIDS.

OK, there is considerably more political will to discover a vaccine in this instance, and there are many very clever people working on the problem around the world.

Trump wants a vaccine before the election. If it eventuates, it'll be coming ready or not.

Putin has apparently announced he has one after foregoing almost all testing.

Here's hoping there's one from a more reliable source in the pipeline.


* Found a faster one; mumps took four. Although it does depend how you count it, people had been working on a mumps vaccine for decades.

[Bonez]

Apparently the fastest vaccine ever took five years. There is another virus for which we are still awaiting a vaccine after decades: AIDS.

OK, there is considerably more political will to discover a vaccine in this instance, and there are many very clever people working on the problem around the world.

Trump wants a vaccine before the election. If it eventuates, it'll be coming ready or not.

Putin has apparently announced he has one after foregoing almost all testing.

Here's hoping there's one from a more reliable source in the pipeline.Credible, varifyable, trustworthy and reliable sources please..

[pritch]

Thought that the main thread title would be enough for you.


Yeah, I don't know what other people see on their screens but on mine, the link I posted mentions the source and the subject. As a check, the subject matched the thread topic. That should be enough for anyone of normal intelligence.

OK, I think I see the problem...

Bonez shouldn't feel bad about not clicking on links I post. I rarely ever read anything he posts.

[Bonez]

Bonez shouldn't feel bad about not clicking on links I post. I rarely ever read anything he posts.But you always have a peak don't you despite you having me on ignore :laugh:

[F5 Dave]

Fear not, Listening to no one.

not thinking about every country getting together.
only thinking about countries by themselves.

I notice Sweden’s covid response or lack has been silenced.

we did survive previous pandemics, Black Plague etc.

and FYI the Chinese whispers can get you into hot water.:psst:when people make assumptions without asking the people being talked about.
Um. Tell that to the 1/3 of the population of Europe that didn't survive the Black Death. An absolute 1/3 were wiped out. That's huge. Surprised you used that as an example.


That was often blamed on the un-pious , displeasure of god etc. The amusing thing, if one can excuse that when talking about death, is that the religious orders were the worst hit due to their close living conditions. Emptied many monasteries.

[F5 Dave]

Yeah well it could have some holes in it, but I am sure you could chuck some rules at it to make it work.

I'm sure Putin could give some guidance :whistle:
Sorry, I do kinda agree with you, but you know, piss take opportunity.

[husaberg]

I'm sure Putin could give some guidance :whistle:
Sorry, I do kinda agree with you, but you know, piss take opportunity.
Dictatorships like Putin's now he's effectively changed the Russian constitution to make him president for life, sure get stuff done.
The trains all run on time, as everyone knows if they say they don't they will end up dead like his political opponents.

[R650R]

One certainly appears not to understand cause and effect.

Those numbers are the result of the measures taken, you canÂ’t use them as a justification for retrospectively not doing them.

Cause and Effect LMAO...

The borders were WIDE open for MONTHS before we were panicked into lockdown by false predictions from that UK guy whose had massive fails on other projections in past.

We have 2 deg of separation in modern society so this thing should have spread like wildfire before the lockdowns but it clearly didnÂ’t.... even months later only 1650 odd cases in a country of five million people....

EFFECTS... only 89 or six percent of those actually infected needed hospital treatment.
Given that a LOT more than 6% of population is probably Obese, Immune compromised or other health complications then this virus is a fail as far as diseases go....

The measures taken were refundant when EVERYONE still went to supermarket and mixed and mingled in ques. Untrained security gaurds rubbing trolleys with rag while wearing same gloves they took trolley back in.... How did the virus know not to go to PaknSave ?

Real EFFECTS.... thousands of lives and jobs, small businesses needlessly RUINED. Torture for the elderly and terminally ill (from cancer and other normal ailments) in there final months/year of life unable to see family or travel.

[R650R]

Nah you been listening to fear mongering conmen wannabe politicians.

Every country in the world didn't get together and plan this or any future global pandemic, the logistics are impossible.

Are you not aware of the UNITED Nations, G8, APEC, Bilderberg, NATO etc.... the Elite and politicians have at least yearly chinwags where they plan ahead the global agenda.

And if any political leader doesn’t obey then those photos from the time their jet landed at Epstein Island end up in the news....

Just look at Ghaddafi, supported by the west for years but then the silly bugger completed a massive water infrastructure project that would guarantee their food supply and make them able to feed all of Africa. Oh and he was about to say goodbye to the IMF and start an Arab gold backed currency.

[Kickaha]

Are you not aware of the UNITED Nations, G8, APEC, Bilderberg, NATO etc.... the Elite and politicians have at least yearly chinwags where they plan ahead the global agenda.

What a load of idiocy, you forgot to mention flat earth, chem trails and lizard people because they're just as believable :facepalm:

[pritch]

The trains all run on time,

That's what they said about Mussolini. I read recently though that the truth was rather different. If a train was late, there was nobody game to report it.

[Bonez]

I read recently though that the truth was rather different. .Sounds like the majority of your posts.

[husaberg]

That's what they said about Mussolini. I read recently though that the truth was rather different. If a train was late, there was nobody game to report it.

Your post confuses me, was the last part of my post in Swedish?:whistle:

[sugilite]

Posting a link without any indication of the content again? Some of us will not click on those links. This is good internet procedure btw. It's again obvious you don't have a clue how to make a proper post to provide relevant, accurate, verifiable information from a credible source.:no:

Apparently Viking01 needs to buy a clue as well.

Now in what four year thread have we all seen these before?


Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups.

Please provide accurate credible reliable and verifiable evidence of that Viking01.


Credible, varifyable, trustworthy and reliable sources please..

As in when you wrote "And now the facts this time" and posted a link to a video showing Dr Turley spouting right wing talking points and stopping every couple of minutes to push sponsors survival packs?

[Bonez]

As in when you wrote "And now the facts this time" and posted a link to a video showing Dr Turley spouting right wing talking points and stopping every couple of minutes to push sponsors survival packs?Ohh you poor thing...:lol: How's that critical thinking going?:weird:

[MaxPenguin]

Are you not aware of the UNITED Nations, G8, APEC, Bilderberg, NATO etc.... the Elite and politicians have at least yearly chinwags where they plan ahead the global agenda.

And if any political leader doesn’t obey then those photos from the time their jet landed at Epstein Island end up in the news....

Just look at Ghaddafi, supported by the west for years but then the silly bugger completed a massive water infrastructure project that would guarantee their food supply and make them able to feed all of Africa. Oh and he was about to say goodbye to the IMF and start an Arab gold backed currency.

Ok, cool thinking, good on you, now next time try thinking critically.

[eldog]

Um. Tell that to the 1/3 of the population of Europe that didn't survive the Black Death. An absolute 1/3 were wiped out. That's huge. Surprised you used that as an example.


That was often blamed on the un-pious , displeasure of god etc. The amusing thing, if one can excuse that when talking about death, is that the religious orders were the worst hit due to their close living conditions. Emptied many monasteries.

It was the only one I could think of apart from Spanish flu or Aids that didn’t involve only specific methods of transmission or involved an exhaust society aka After WW1.
TB , polio have some form of cure.

there was no modern communication or the ease of travelling like today.

ok it was Europe, what prevented it from going outside of Europe?

[sugilite]

Ohh you poor thing...:lol: How's that critical thinking going?:weird:

Hmmm, lets go through the list....
1. No meaningful reply.
2. No context.
3. Asks about critical thinking without displaying any himself.
Yes, it is definitely a Bonez post :laugh:

Please for the Love of God Bonez, don't offer to mate me again :msn-wink:

[Bonez]

Hmmm, lets go through the list....
1. No meaningful reply.
2. No context.
3. Asks about critical thinking without displaying any himself.
Yes, it is definitely a Bonez post :laugh:

Please for the Love of God Bonez, don't offer to mate me again :msn-wink:You poor dear....:weird: Are you hurt?:laugh: I see the 2016 thread is dying slowly.....:Punk: Obviously I don't give a fuck what you post.:bye:

[husaberg]

ok, it was Europe, what prevented it from going outside of Europe?
according to the internet.
It kills 60% of people who get it and it only lives in the air for less than an hour and it also takes an intermediary host to spread it.
ie it can't effectively be passed from human to human.
ie you don't get it if you don't handle or be in close contact with sick or diseased animals that have it.

[sugilite]

You poor dear....:weird: Are you hurt?:laugh: I see the 2016 thread is dying slowly.....:Punk:
That still busy 2016 thread really annoys you huh? It was funny when you asked the mods to close it :laugh:
For the record, i am hurt, ever since you stopped calling me doc, well.... I just feel you don't care anymore :cry:

[Bonez]

That still busy 2016 thread really annoys you huh? It was funny when you asked the mods to close it :laugh:
For the record, i am hurt, ever since you stopped calling me doc, well.... I just feel you don't care anymore :cry:See above.:tugger:

[sugilite]

See above.:tugger:
Pritch, only 3 posts! Better up your game old chap :laugh:

[F5 Dave]

It was the only one I could think of apart from Spanish flu or Aids that didn’t involve only specific methods of transmission or involved an exhaust society aka After WW1.
TB , polio have some form of cure.

there was no modern communication or the ease of travelling like today.

ok it was Europe, what prevented it from going outside of Europe?
Um, well it did. It went on for decades, centuries even. 10s of thousands were killed in the UK , ok I'll have to Google this. Ok so like 1300s it started and spread across trading routes then mid 1600s got badly into the UK.
People were mobile, just took longer to get anywhere.

Ourfakehistory (no, it's not some conspiracy site) did a good episode about it as podcast. Well researched history and worth a listen.

[F5 Dave]

Cause and Effect LMAO...

The borders were WIDE open for MONTHS before we were panicked into lockdown by false predictions from that UK guy whose had massive fails on other projections in past.

We have 2 deg of separation in modern society so this thing should have spread like wildfire before the lockdowns but it clearly didnÂ’t.... even months later only 1650 odd cases in a country of five million people....

EFFECTS... only 89 or six percent of those actually infected needed hospital treatment.
Given that a LOT more than 6% of population is probably Obese, Immune compromised or other health complications then this virus is a fail as far as diseases go....

The measures taken were refundant when EVERYONE still went to supermarket and mixed and mingled in ques. Untrained security gaurds rubbing trolleys with rag while wearing same gloves they took trolley back in.... How did the virus know not to go to PaknSave ?

Real EFFECTS.... thousands of lives and jobs, small businesses needlessly RUINED. Torture for the elderly and terminally ill (from cancer and other normal ailments) in there final months/year of life unable to see family or travel.
I really don't know where to go with this. :confused:

Have you not been watching the economic effects of what is going on in the US?

[eldog]

I really don't know where to go with this. :confused:

Have you not been watching the economic effects of what is going on in the US?

It’s been dam hard contacting people in the US lately, lots of people becoming unemployed due to staff cuts.

[R650R]

Has it been six months even yet...????

Well anyway if wasn’t bad enough Jacinda saying she will be the “single source of truth “ we have now gone FULL North KOREA...

Our local police FB page now saying to only repeat info from the covid1984.govt.nz site

How long til we like Australia and they arresting pregnant women for posting on fb legitimate legal info?
Soon forums like this will be illegal and only Fakebook and twatter verified accounts will be allowed.

I suggest the mods archive for the good of nz Mc history some of the more important technical and historical threads.

[nerrrd]

...The measures taken were refundant when EVERYONE still went to supermarket and mixed and mingled in ques...

Thanks for putting the fun in redundant. Was not my experience though, more not fun really.

No mingling in the ques I stood in, sigh. Speaking of which...

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/750/931/1e6

[ellipsis]

Um, well it did. It went on for decades, centuries even. 10s of thousands were killed in the UK , ok I'll have to Google this. Ok so like 1300s it started and spread across trading routes then mid 1600s got badly into the UK.
People were mobile, just took longer to get anywhere.

Ourfakehistory (no, it's not some conspiracy site) did a good episode about it as podcast. Well researched history and worth a listen.

...when i was a chippy on the Harbour Board, I worked with a man who was employed to trap rats that came ashore and they were sent off to the DSIR or another somesuch govt dept and were being checked out for bubonic fleas, which quite a few were detected with...1970's...

[F5 Dave]

Has it been six months even yet...????

Well anyway if wasn’t bad enough Jacinda saying she will be the “single source of truth “ we have now gone FULL North KOREA...

Our local police FB page now saying to only repeat info from the covid1984.govt.nz site

How long til we like Australia and they arresting pregnant women for posting on fb legitimate legal info?
Soon forums like this will be illegal and only Fakebook and twatter verified accounts will be allowed.

I suggest the mods archive for the good of nz Mc history some of the more important technical and historical threads.
You live in a scary world.
Stay strong. But don't be too staunch to ask for help.
Safe rides.

[F5 Dave]

...when i was a chippy on the Harbour Board, I worked with a man who was employed to trap rats that came ashore and they were sent off to the DSIR or another somesuch govt dept and were being checked out for bubonic fleas, which quite a few were detected with...1970's...
Thank jeebus for antibiotics.

[MaxPenguin]

Has it been six months even yet...????

Well anyway if wasn’t bad enough Jacinda saying she will be the “single source of truth “ we have now gone FULL North KOREA...

Our local police FB page now saying to only repeat info from the covid1984.govt.nz site

How long til we like Australia and they arresting pregnant women for posting on fb legitimate legal info?
Soon forums like this will be illegal and only Fakebook and twatter verified accounts will be allowed.

I suggest the mods archive for the good of nz Mc history some of the more important technical and historical threads.

FULL NORTH KOREA?? Give us a break. There is a global, yes global pandemic, things are going to be different for a while, get used to it, same as when we were at war when people had to ration food, fuel etc.

[pritch]

I really don't know where to go with this. :confused:


You are not alone. I heard a guy complain recently about the millions spent and the small number of deaths. He quoted the cost per death and said it was far too high.

I didn't say anything but I was wondering what he'd have preferred. Was he suggesting we should have had thousands of dead to lower the unit cost?

Reminded me of the Texas Governor who said, There's more important things than life.

Turns out there are two types of people: those who care about life, and those who care about money.

[pritch]

Trump has again announced that the virus will just disappear, "Hopefully sooner than later." Which basically is what passes for his official response.

Experts disagree.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/experts-warn-us-death-toll-could-hit-410000-by-years-end/2020/09/04/ffc34736-eea7-11ea-99a1-71343d03bc29_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-banner-low_410000deaths-10a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans

[F5 Dave]

The colonel said "these bodies stink wont someone come and drag them away"
We try to clean them up but they mow us down
And the English colonel looks the other way
Oh the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak
Well I ran for the trench but I had no time to speak
Well my heart said yes
But my head said no
When the English colonel said "its time to go"
He said "Whats a few men?"
He said "Whats a few men?"
He said "Whats a few men

[R650R]

FULL NORTH KOREA?? Give us a break. There is a global, yes global pandemic, things are going to be different for a while, get used to it, same as when we were at war when people had to ration food, fuel etc.

Different forever, Jacinda already said that. No political party has EVER given away control mechanisms or restrictions.
Soon they will make it LAW that you have to have the covid app to buy food or do anything.
You will HAVE to carry your phone (your papers) EVERYWHERE or risk prison/fines.
Crims will love knowing that you DO have your phone on you. Phones will be worth more per ounce than drugs as contact tracing eliminates burner phone access that crimes survive on.


Wartime rations is a poor analogy, you still had relatively freedom of movement and association.
Hell poor people ration things still today! BTW poor Is the 70% of NZ that earn less than the average national wage.

22 NZ dead from virus, please remind me how many died in WW2, Vietnam or even a busy holiday weekend road toll?

[MaxPenguin]

Different forever, Jacinda already said that. No political party has EVER given away control mechanisms or restrictions.
Soon they will make it LAW that you have to have the covid app to buy food or do anything.
You will HAVE to carry your phone (your papers) EVERYWHERE or risk prison/fines.
Crims will love knowing that you DO have your phone on you. Phones will be worth more per ounce than drugs as contact tracing eliminates burner phone access that crimes survive on.


Wartime rations is a poor analogy, you still had relatively freedom of movement and association.
Hell poor people ration things still today! BTW poor Is the 70% of NZ that earn less than the average national wage.

22 NZ dead from virus, please remind me how many died in WW2, Vietnam or even a busy holiday weekend road toll?

Well more USA citizens have died from covid than in the Vietnam war.

And as for the rest of your waffle. Get help.

[R650R]

Trump has again announced that the virus will just disappear, "Hopefully sooner than later." Which basically is what passes for his official response.

Experts disagree.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/experts-warn-us-death-toll-could-hit-410000-by-years-end/2020/09/04/ffc34736-eea7-11ea-99a1-71343d03bc29_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-banner-low_410000deaths-10a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans

Didn’t read the article but if it truely “disappears” that has some real ramifications about what we’ve been told about the virus.
ItÂ’s so contagious you need to be six feet away from other people, spend no longer than 15mins in close contact with a person, survives extended periods on hard surfaces....

No other virus has ever dissappeared, in fact all previous viruses hard to work so hard to survive as generally everyoneÂ’s immune systems got exposed to them and learnt to fight them.

In effect we’ve give this “millennial” virus a bulletvproof vest and laser sights by not letting people be exposed to it.

Just look at measles. Forget the modern debate about a small portion not vaccinated against it. Measles was effectively ‘eliminated’ from the western world some time ago and a huge majority of people would have both natural immunity passed on in DNA/genes from parents plus vaccines.
Yet still it makes a comeback each year.
But if we hide inside and close the country this new virus will be ‘eliminated’...

The virus wonÂ’t dissappear until Bill Gates has his vaccine ready. And just like his software products generating revenue by planned obsolescence and updates, you will have to buy (via your taxes paid to govt) an updated vaccine pack each year.

[husaberg]

22 NZ dead from virus, please remind me how many died in WW2,

Hint if the NZ soldiers in ww2 had socially distanced themselves from the rest of the world and the bullets we would not have lost any soldiers in ww2 either.
Conversely, The US had lost more from covid than they had lost in all the wars since WW2 months ago.
So your analogy is crap on all levels, something anyone with a modicum of intelligence could be expected to figure out.
https://content.fortune.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/nolvi-u-s-deaths-from-wars-and-major-pandemics-7-2.png

#Hint the current US death toll from covid 19 is now 188,000 people and is still climbing every single day.
I find it hard to believe you are not just an alt log in troll.
Each post that comes out of your account is just a further cry for help.

[R650R]

Well more USA citizens have died from covid than in the Vietnam war.

And as for the rest of your waffle. Get help.

330 million people in USA potentially exposed to virus, 188,000 dead (and that number is under review)

2.5 million USA soldiers served in Vietnam, 58,318 of them were killed.

ThatÂ’s roughly 2% of soldiers served tragically died in combat.

So far 0.05 percent of USA has died from covid. Or in ‘Merican Imperial measurement that’s 5697 in every ten million dead.
Or if we were to talk about water contamination seeing as there is a lot of murky water about that would be 570 parts per million.
Incident thatÂ’s ironically close to the save level of total dissolved solids in drinking water of 500 parts per million typical measured in grams per litre.

[MaxPenguin]

330 million people in USA potentially exposed to virus, 188,000 dead (and that number is under review)

2.5 million USA soldiers served in Vietnam, 58,318 of them were killed.

ThatÂ’s roughly 2% of soldiers served tragically died in combat.

So far 0.05 percent of USA has died from covid. Or in ‘Merican Imperial measurement that’s 5697 in every ten million dead.
Or if we were to talk about water contamination seeing as there is a lot of murky water about that would be 570 parts per million.
Incident thatÂ’s ironically close to the save level of total dissolved solids in drinking water of 500 parts per million typical measured in grams per litre.

You just removed 200million people to make your statistic look better. Better to stick with Bill Gates, child slavery, NWO and covid 19 being a bio weapon controlled by 5g.

[R650R]

You just removed 200million people to make your statistic look better. Better to stick with Bill Gates, child slavery, NWO and covid 19 being a bio weapon controlled by 5g.

Where you take 200 million from?
I don’t know why you attach the other parts, perhaps to obfuscate the discussion away from facts.

[F5 Dave]

What about those killed by Hitler on the internet!

Jesus muthafuking krist!

Save us Donald. Won't you save us from the Satan that is to come in hallowed day? (6G of you were wondering)

[F5 Dave]

Didn’t read the article but if it truely “disappears” that has some real ramifications about what we’ve been told about the virus.
ItÂ’s so contagious you need to be six feet away from other people, spend no longer than 15mins in close contact with a person, survives extended periods on hard surfaces....

No other virus has ever dissappeared, in fact all previous viruses hard to work so hard to survive as generally everyoneÂ’s immune systems got exposed to them and learnt to fight them.

In effect we’ve give this “millennial” virus a bulletvproof vest and laser sights by not letting people be exposed to it.

Just look at measles. Forget the modern debate about a small portion not vaccinated against it. Measles was effectively ‘eliminated’ from the western world some time ago and a huge majority of people would have both natural immunity passed on in DNA/genes from parents plus vaccines.
Yet still it makes a comeback each year.
But if we hide inside and close the country this new virus will be ‘eliminated’...

The virus wonÂ’t dissappear until Bill Gates has his vaccine ready. And just like his software products generating revenue by planned obsolescence and updates, you will have to buy (via your taxes paid to govt) an updated vaccine pack each year.
Fuking SATAN. Measles keeps coming back because stupid fuking cunts decide that they don't need to immunise because of Hillary Clinton and her child pedophiles ring are in league with Phil Collins and Justin Timberlake to create a dark state.

Get some help.

[Bonez]

Didn’t read the article but if it truely “disappears” that has some real ramifications about what we’ve been told about the virus.
ItÂ’s so contagious you need to be six feet away from other people, spend no longer than 15mins in close contact with a person, survives extended periods on hard surfaces....

No other virus has ever dissappeared, in fact all previous viruses hard to work so hard to survive as generally everyoneÂ’s immune systems got exposed to them and learnt to fight them.

In effect we’ve give this “millennial” virus a bulletvproof vest and laser sights by not letting people be exposed to it.

Just look at measles. Forget the modern debate about a small portion not vaccinated against it. Measles was effectively ‘eliminated’ from the western world some time ago and a huge majority of people would have both natural immunity passed on in DNA/genes from parents plus vaccines.
Yet still it makes a comeback each year.
But if we hide inside and close the country this new virus will be ‘eliminated’...

The virus wonÂ’t dissappear until Bill Gates has his vaccine ready. And just like his software products generating revenue by planned obsolescence and updates, you will have to buy (via your taxes paid to govt) an updated vaccine pack each year.You forgot the one eyed, green skinned three legged aliens.

[mulletman]

Nah you been listening to fear mongering conmen wannabe politicians.

Every country in the world didn't get together and plan this or any future global pandemic, the logistics are impossible.


Strange looks like alot of countries were expecting something..

https://wits.worldbank.org/trade/comtrade/en/country/ALL/year/2018/tradeflow/Exports/partner/WLD/nomen/h5/product/300215?fbclid=IwAR3vuxILHDic3UklPOEC7qGbyk75Rxnev6 jatBnbIu9pc5hppCTXs1Ibquk

[pritch]

perhaps to obfuscate the discussion away from facts.

I don't think the word ''facts" means what you think it means.
Whatever that is?

[Katman]

Strange looks like alot of countries were expecting something..

https://wits.worldbank.org/trade/comtrade/en/country/ALL/year/2018/tradeflow/Exports/partner/WLD/nomen/h5/product/300215?fbclid=IwAR3vuxILHDic3UklPOEC7qGbyk75Rxnev6 jatBnbIu9pc5hppCTXs1Ibquk

And let's not forget Event 201.

[george formby]

Strange looks like alot of countries were expecting something..

https://wits.worldbank.org/trade/comtrade/en/country/ALL/year/2018/tradeflow/Exports/partner/WLD/nomen/h5/product/300215?fbclid=IwAR3vuxILHDic3UklPOEC7qGbyk75Rxnev6 jatBnbIu9pc5hppCTXs1Ibquk

Crikey, summit strange. Maybe Nostrodamus.

Covid-19 was officially named on Feb 11 2020.

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/technical-guidance/naming-the-coronavirus-disease-(covid-2019)-and-the-virus-that-causes-it#:~:text=The%20International%20Committee%20on%20 Taxonomy,two%20viruses%20are%20different.

The plot thickens

[MaxPenguin]

Strange looks like alot of countries were expecting something..

https://wits.worldbank.org/trade/comtrade/en/country/ALL/year/2018/tradeflow/Exports/partner/WLD/nomen/h5/product/300215?fbclid=IwAR3vuxILHDic3UklPOEC7qGbyk75Rxnev6 jatBnbIu9pc5hppCTXs1Ibquk

Wow they have organized and planned a pandemic that got every country on board, which has mind blowing logistics, but put the manifest of covid test kits on the internet.

[husaberg]

Strange looks like alot of countries were expecting something..

https://wits.worldbank.org/trade/comtrade/en/country/ALL/year/2018/tradeflow/Exports/partner/WLD/nomen/h5/product/300215?fbclid=IwAR3vuxILHDic3UklPOEC7qGbyk75Rxnev6 jatBnbIu9pc5hppCTXs1Ibquk

Only its a generic PCR test reagent.
a quick google on the waybackwhen machine shows that code is generic (300215)they have just later changed what its used for later thus its more than likely there is nothing nefarious in it.
but feel free to build a whole conspiracy around it.
https://www.thermofisher.com/content/dam/LifeTech/global/life-sciences/Protein%20Bio%20-%20Thermo/pdf/sample-preparation-for-mass-spectrometry.pdf

[MaxPenguin]

And let's not forget Event 201.

Nothing wrong with preparing for something that is likely to occur at some stage. It's like saying that because the military train in terrorist attack response then they must have known that a specific terrorist event was going to happen and that is exactly what they were training for.

[Katman]

a quick google on the waybackwhen machine shows that code is generic (300215)they have just later changed what its used for later thus its more than likely there is nothing nefarious in it.


Do you know for a fact that they changed the name of that product to 'Covid 19 test kit' sometime after 2018 or is it just another one of your guesses?

[Katman]

Nothing wrong with preparing for something that is likely to occur at some stage. It's like saying that because the military train in terrorist attack response then they must have known that a specific terrorist event was going to happen and that is exactly what they were training for.

Yeah, like they were running a war games scenario on 9/11 that included planes flying into buildings and they were conducting a drill on 7/7 that included dealing with bombs on the London underground.

That's some pretty uncanny preparedness.

[husaberg]

Do you know for a fact that they changed the name of that product to 'Covid 19 test kit' sometimes after 2018 or is it just another one of your guesses?

I know for a fact that none of the entries on the waybackwhen machine refer to the reagent as being used for covid 19 testing prior to the virus and test for it being named covid 19. So you figure it out.
The fact that the reagent has been around for years prior (at least 2014)to covid 19 when it was not called anything to do with covid 19 might be a bit of a hint for most people of average or better intelligence, I linked it above, which you chose to remove from your quote. So you are either too lazy to look or not sufficiently intelligent. I would say its the latter.
https://www.thermofisher.com/content/dam/LifeTech/global/life-sciences/Protein%20Bio%20-%20Thermo/pdf/sample-preparation-for-mass-spectrometry.pdf

like I said feel free to build a whole conspiracy around it you have used less to claim more before.

[nerrrd]

I'm not sure how I found this, but there's a blurb in it which may be relevant here.

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/parliamentaryBudgetOffice/2020/2020-04-08_ireland-s-trade-in-medical-products-used-to-treat-covid-19_en.pdf


The WCO also provides codes for materials that can be used in COVID testing kits (e.g. reagents). In 2019, Ireland was the second largest exporter of these products after Germany as it exported €17.7 billion of these products. However, as diagnostic tests for COVID-19 were only developed in 2020, these exports were used to diagnose other illnesses.

[Kickaha]

And let's not forget Event 201.

You can watch the video from it if you want to see it, all the info is easily obtainable https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/about one of many sites


Yeah, like they were running a war games scenario on 9/11 that included planes flying into buildings and they were conducting a drill on 7/7 that included dealing with bombs on the London underground.

That's some pretty uncanny preparedness.

Norad did that drill a year before 9/11 and others even earlier, the same way the UK have done other bomb drills previously

[Katman]

Norad did that drill a year before 9/11 and others even earlier, the same way the UK have done other bomb drills previously

Did any of those other drills occur on the exact day of either of the events in question?

[husaberg]

Did any of those other drills occur on the exact day of either of the events in question?

Are you suggesting that the Russians were in on it now

Operation Northern Vigilance, was a NORAD operation which involved deploying fighter aircraft to locations in Alaska and Northern Canada. In order to simulate a hijacking situation including terrorist pilots. The operation was a response to a Russian exercise, in which long-range bombers were dispatched to Russia's high north.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:: laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::l augh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::la ugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::lau gh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laug h::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh ::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:: laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::l augh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::la ugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::lau gh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laug h::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh ::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Bonez]

Are you suggesting that the Russians were in on it now
: According to the Dems yes:facepalm:

[jasonu]

If it wasn't for the actions of several different groups of dumb boongahs Auckland and the rest of NZ would likely be at level 1 at worst.

[R650R]

If it wasn't for the actions of several different groups of dumb boongahs Auckland and the rest of NZ would likely be at level 1 at worst.

You can’t blame victims of the virus for having the virus which is apparently highly contagious and can apparently be spread even if you don’t have symptoms...
Well have another outbreak soon anyway from that Aussie rugby team and their personnel given lesser rules so Taxcinda could buy some votes.
Rugby players can’t even follow the rules of their own game for 80 minutes and we think they can behave and obey quarantine rules lol
We’re one celebrity airport toilet shag away from outbreak 3 lol

[Berries]

If it wasn't for the actions of several different groups of dumb boongahs Auckland and the rest of NZ would likely be at level 1 at worst.
Now we're talking - dunedin-pizza-parlour-bans-aucklanders-over-covid-fears (https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/dunedin-pizza-parlour-bans-aucklanders-over-covid-fears)

[R650R]

Now we're talking - dunedin-pizza-parlour-bans-aucklanders-over-covid-fears (https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/dunedin-pizza-parlour-bans-aucklanders-over-covid-fears)

Good way to destroy your business... wonder if dumb fucks realise 90% of their store supplies prob came ex Auckland on truck or train and been touched by lots of minimum wage Auckland workers who prob live in latest hot zones lol

[jasonu]

Now we're talking - dunedin-pizza-parlour-bans-aucklanders-over-covid-fears (https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/dunedin-pizza-parlour-bans-aucklanders-over-covid-fears)

Sounds racist.

[Berries]

Good way to destroy your business... wonder if dumb fucks realise 90% of their store supplies prob came ex Auckland on truck or train and been touched by lots of minimum wage Auckland workers who prob live in latest hot zones lol
A slice of salami is not going to cough in your face though is it?

I see Aucklanders are getting a lot of support in the comments section of Stuff - Jafas can go and get fucked says the south island. (https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/122811173/auckland-couple-denied-entry-to-dunedin-restaurant-over-covid19-fears#comments)

[R650R]

A slice of salami is not going to cough in your face though is it?

I see Aucklanders are getting a lot of support in the comments section of Stuff - Jafas can go and get fucked says the south island. (https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/122811173/auckland-couple-denied-entry-to-dunedin-restaurant-over-covid19-fears#comments)

I went a major nationwide takeaway outlet on Friday. It was jam packed and people were unafraid to rebel against the restrictions/hysteria.
People sat and ate at “closed “ tables, people were hungry so there was no social distancing.
One patron wore a mask but he was of the age that he likely had another health condition or cancer survivor etc...
Two people in a 15min period scanned the QR thingy, no one signed the concentration camp booking form.
The teenage girl taking an order to someone seated outside accidentally coughed near the order and close to an elderly patron and no one batted an eyelid at at.
No ones afraid of the virus anymore.... Yeah sure it be bad to catch it but people want to live their lives free and not in fear ....
The govt has worn people out with its Clockwork Orange fear therapy and “Ludovico’d” is into not being afraid. In a nation with major substance abuse problems you’d think the govt would know to not overdose us with fear porn but just like a crack dealer they done gone fried their customer base!

[FJRider]

I went a major nationwide takeaway outlet on Friday ...

And if a case breaks out in such cases ... there is nationwide condemnation on faceblurb.

Until then .... NOTHING.

As obviously ... (apparently) there is (was ??) no issue ... :facepalm:



Go figure ... :shifty:



Just saying ... :innocent:

[pete376403]

Labours Covid strategy is a victim of it's own success - not enough people died for it to be taken seriously.

[Kickaha]

concentration camp booking form.

Concentration camp form ? what a fuckwit to even compare it


Yeah sure it be bad to catch it but people want to live their lives free and not in fear

I don't know a single person living in fear of it, I do know multiple people taking sensible precautions, they aren't the same thing

[FJRider]

Concentration camp form ? what a fuckwit to even compare it

Some just see it as it as an "Infringement" of their freedoms ... and the anti-covid measures are just seen herd control of the general populace.

The self centered ones (who breed at an incredible rate) always roll out the "Small business's are hurting) line. Really I think to mask their own fears or selfishness.

Those businesses that can't or wont change their business policy and practices will hurt. Innovative examples of change in methods of doing business is actually common. The downside is ... it requires more work and organizational skills than some have. And just quite can't comprehend "Doing it their way" will likely kill their business.


I don't know a single person living in fear of it, I do know multiple people taking sensible precautions, they aren't the same thing

Anxiety issues are a growing issue in "Modern" society. And I'm certain you WILL know someone living in fear of it. The amount of fear involved may vary. And sensible precautions are the precursor to more stringent precautions they may be taking elsewhere. Precautions you might not see or be aware of. Even that you see those precautions being taken ... means they do see it as a possible threat to their health (a commonsense attitude). Threats, risks and fears all amount to the same thing ... a threat to their self. Some get anxiety issues when the driver of the vehicle they are in is following too closely to the vehicle in front. How seriously anxiety affects their thinking may vary from person to person. But it is there.

The ingrained laziness of many is the serious issue. That prevents more widespread personal precautionary measures being taken as standard practice in their lifestyles. The old "I can't be fucked doing that" comment is common. Just as when motorcycling ... if you're not looking for issues that might kill you ... you might not see the one that kills you.

[pritch]

I
Two people in a 15min period scanned the QR thingy, no one signed the concentration camp booking form.


That wouldn't necessarily give the whole picture. Yesterday I was out and about more than usual. I visited some places more than once, if I'd already scanned a place previously that day I didn't scan it again.

A thought: why are you having so much trouble understanding what are basic common sense procedures?

Here is some truly astounding stupidity. A group of students are hosting a party, all have recently tested positive for Covid. They have to be quarantined at home, so they invite their mates around for a party. They just don't seem to get the idea that staying at home is not the whole answer.
It's not shown in this clip but I think the cop ends up booking the lot of them.*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M-6IwwFFhg



* He booked six of them.

[R650R]

Labours Covid strategy is a victim of it's own success - not enough people died for it to be taken seriously.

I think we will actually end up having a major second wave next year...
The only places not having second waves are likes of Sweden which achieved herd immunity/exposure. All the countries that did what we did are experiencing second waves, only thing saving us at moment from it is essentially our iron curtain closed border, eventually we have to reopen that...
What’s really saved us is NZ’s lovely winter sunshine and easy access to clean outdoor air and a massive lack of public transport systems.

[Bonez]

I think we will actually end up having a major second wave next year...
The only places not having second waves are likes of Sweden which achieved herd immunity/exposure. All the countries that did what we did are experiencing second waves, only thing saving us at moment from it is essentially our iron curtain closed border, eventually we have to reopen that...
What’s really saved us is NZ’s lovely winter sunshine and easy access to clean outdoor air and a massive lack of public transport systems.Don't you mean third? We have already had number two. What kindy did you go to?

[pritch]

The only places not having second waves are likes of Sweden which achieved herd immunity/exposure.

Your idea is based on a false premise. Sweden did not achieve herd immunity and neither have any of the other countries that tried it.
Sweden's top health advisor has admitted he was mistaken to try for herd immunity.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200813/swedens-no-lockdown-policy-didnt-achieve-herd-immunity


In the US, as they head into winter, there is currently concern among health professionals about the flu. Patients with both viruses at the same time will not have a great prognosis. We were fortunate that when the flu season would have normally got underway here we were locked down.

[F5 Dave]

I think we will actually end up having a major second wave next year...
The only places not having second waves are likes of Sweden which achieved herd immunity/exposure. All the countries that did what we did are experiencing second waves, only thing saving us at moment from it is essentially our iron curtain closed border, eventually we have to reopen that...
What’s really saved us is NZ’s lovely winter sunshine and easy access to clean outdoor air and a massive lack of public transport systems.

No it didn't. Where do you get your information? The 'school of hopefully outcomes and willful ignorance of non affirmative data?'



"It is clear that not only are the rates of viral infection, hospitalization and mortality [per million population] much higher than those seen in neighboring Scandinavian countries, but also that the time-course of the epidemic in Sweden is different, with continued persistence of higher infection and mortality well beyond the few critical weeks period seen in Denmark, Finland and Norway," said researcher Dr. David Goldsmith, a retired physician in London

Experience suggests that severely infected COVID-19 patients acquire antibodies immediately and during early recovery, but antibodies are much less common in only mildly ill or asymptomatic patients. This means they are likely not immune, and can't prevent the spread of the virus, the study noted. This is central to the concept of herd immunity.
Etc

[pritch]

There have been several reports on social media, (and no I'm not your social secretary), concerning Trumpist idiots who arrive at hospital infected with COVID but who refuse to wear masks. They're sick, but they know it's a hoax. Trump told them.

In some instances medical staff have to take time out from more deserving cases to try and talk them around. They are infectious and pose a risk to everybody. In the case of the hospital I was reading about last night, three of these idiots have died of their hoax.

It might be possible to ameliorate the situation by having a three strikes rule at the ambulance and the hospital door. If having been asked three times they refuse to put a mask on that's it. No entry.

Of course they'd need a law change, but they'd never get that with the inbred fuckwits they've got running so many states.

200,000 dead and counting.

[Katman]

https://sebastianrushworth.com/2020/09/19/covid-19-does-sweden-have-herd-immunity/?fbclid=IwAR3k8VipqSeagMXi0YEqvOtklwehJ3VHm_Cu3bY3 KUUj7-042M7TDDIiu_c

[pritch]

Over one million deaths from COVID world wide.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/29/global-coronavirus-deaths-pass-1m-with-no-sign-rate-slowing

[RDJ]

The virus is not harmless, and the risk is certainly not to be scoffed at. That said, by itself it's about as dangerous as one of the nastier variations (for example, the 1968 Hong Kong H3N2 influenza virus which killed 4 million worldwide) of the annual ‘flu virus; and the usual flu killed 500 Kiwis in 2019. Not worth the death and disease that's going to follow, inevitably, from crashing economies and vastly increasing unemployment: unwanted job loss is associated with a 75% percent increase in the probability of death – the equivalent of adding 10 years to a person’s age

What ought to be have been made clear to us all ever since April-May is that the most at risk are those over 70 with severe pre-existing conditions - and so we should do what society has always done with epidemics down the ages because that principle hasn't changed: Quarantine (and care for) the Infected, Isolate (and support and visit ) the Vulnerable, Wash our Hands, Stay Home if Sick, and otherwise Carry On.

[nerrrd]

The virus is not harmless, and the risk is certainly not to be scoffed at. That said, by itself it's about as dangerous as one of the nastier variations (for example, the 1968 Hong Kong H3N2 influenza virus which killed 4 million worldwide) of the annual ‘flu virus; and the usual flu killed 500 Kiwis in 2019. Not worth the death and disease that's going to follow, inevitably, from crashing economies and vastly increasing unemployment: unwanted job loss is associated with a 75% percent increase in the probability of death – the equivalent of adding 10 years to a person’s age

What ought to be have been made clear to us all ever since April-May is that the most at risk are those over 70 with severe pre-existing conditions - and so we should do what society has always done with epidemics down the ages because that principle hasn't changed: Quarantine (and care for) the Infected, Isolate (and support and visit ) the Vulnerable, Wash our Hands, Stay Home if Sick, and otherwise Carry On.

I have a feeling though it might be how infectious this one is that sets it apart form the flu. The numbers are higher than most annual illnesses given the short period of time in circulation, even so I would think COVID 19 would have had to be in circulation for a number of years to get any statistically useful numbers for comparison to other established illnesses.

Also it takes time to figure this stuff out, I don’t blame the docs for not immediately knowing everything about COViD 19. I do blame people who criticise the public health services with the benefit of hindsight for decisions that were made months ago, which I think is unfair.

How many families in NZ have loved ones who are over 70 and suffering from pre-existing conditions? My guess would be there’s a lot of them. How much isolation from each other would (or will) we be prepared to tolerate? With people breaking out of managed isolation on a regular basis and the leak of COVID 19 back into the community in Auckland, this suggests to me that sequestering one section of society effectively from the rest might be impossible in practice given the numbers involved.

[RDJ]

The virus don't care about fair.

But, since we are not viruses, let me address your concern about the alleged unfairness of hindsight.

First, and importantly, the pandemic was spreading in January and February. We were generally all in agreement by March to 'flatten the curve'. One would expect good planning and preparation to do that; with solid stocks of PPE, pre-flight checking, after-arrival checking, isolation guidelines for the vulnerable and quarantine locations for the still-allowed-inbound, to be gotten ready and tested.

This didn't happen.

Second and actually more damning: when it became clear that there was no curve to flatten, the curve was not taking off, what did our lords and mistresses decree? No change in the strategy.

But thirdly and this is serious: recall what was bruited and spruiked abroad the land by Ye Media.

Modelling that a professor of physics in New Zealand provided to the Prime Minister was said to convince her that 80,000 people were going to die if she didn't listen to her friends from London and lock New Zealand down now. So, our NZ politicians and technocrats misapplied a completely inaccurate theoretical model developed by a (discredited) professor of mathematical biology in the UK and adapted by a professor of physics in New Zealand, to us humans encountering a variant of a known virus species, using the most scary miscalculated outcome as a stick with which to beat us into our own homes to be imprisoned. At very short notice, and entirely without appropriate planning as outlined above.

Ardern 19th March:

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has dismissed speculation on social media that the Government is poised to announce a nationwide lockdown to combat coronavirus.

"We will share with you the most up-to-date information daily. You can trust us as a source of that information," she told reporters in Rotorua. "Do feel free to visit covid19.govt.nz - otherwise dismiss anything else. We will continue to be your single source of truth."

Bloomfield 19th March:

"A lockdown is not something that I’ve hear discussed by anybody. We've seen other countries do that when they have a very high proportion of cases with committee spread".

Event horizon 24th March 24th:

Level 4 Lockdown.

So, pick your option.

Either they lied about NEVER discussing a lockdown or they changed the ENTIRE response of our country because of a model and a chat with Ardern's 'friends' in Blairland.

When friends overseas painted a bleak picture of the advancing pall of coronavirus, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern listened.

"[They were] saying, 'Go, just shut down, because here I am in lockdown with thousands of people dying. Just shut down'," she tells Stuff's Coronavirus NZ podcast.

It helped make the decision to "go hard and go early", to close New Zealand's borders and enforce a lockdown.

***

Where are we now? Still pursuing the same economy-killing strategy.

And what is the disease like now we know more?

On September 23, the new best estimate infection fatality rate by the CDC in the for the ages 20 to 49 is 0.02%.

That's a 99.98% survival rate.

Estimated survival rates by all ages from the CDC
Ages 0 to 19: 99.997%
20-49: 99.98%
50-69: 99.5%
70+: 94.6%.

This is not the Global Killer we were locked down for.

We should be able to Go About Our Lives with washing, distancing, isolation and quarantine in proportionate measure.

[pritch]

The virus is not harmless, and the risk is certainly not to be scoffed at. That said, by itself it's about as dangerous as one of the nastier variations (for example, the 1968 Hong Kong H3N2 influenza virus which killed 4 million worldwide) of the annual ‘flu virus; and the usual flu killed 500 Kiwis in 2019. Not worth the death and disease that's going to follow, inevitably, from crashing economies and vastly increasing unemployment: unwanted job loss is associated with a 75% percent increase in the probability of death – the equivalent of adding 10 years to a person’s age

What ought to be have been made clear to us all ever since April-May is that the most at risk are those over 70 with severe pre-existing conditions - and so we should do what society has always done with epidemics down the ages because that principle hasn't changed: Quarantine (and care for) the Infected, Isolate (and support and visit ) the Vulnerable, Wash our Hands, Stay Home if Sick, and otherwise Carry On.

You've been mislead to an extent. It's true that most of the fatalities are older with other problems, and that was always made clear, but that's ot the whole story. Young fit college football players "recovered" but now have heart problems. Others listed as receovered find themselves on the waiting list for a lung transplant. While the main problem was the interstitial pneumonia, the virus attacks different people in different ways. The experts are still learning. It would be dangerous to join Trump in describing it as flu.

[RDJ]

You've been mislead to an extent. It's true that most of the fatalities are older with other problems, and that was always made clear, but that's ot the whole story. Young fit college football players "recovered" but now have heart problems. Others listed as receovered find themselves on the waiting list for a lung transplant. While the main problem was the interstitial pneumonia, the virus attacks different people in different ways. The experts are still learning. It would be dangerous to join Trump in describing it as flu.

500 people a year die from the usual flu in NZ in other years. That does not mean all the rest do well with the usual flu either. There is a reason we encourage people to get yearly / seasonal flu shots = to avoid the "recovered" you refer to having life-long problems. That does not mean this virus is worth beggaring a generation of Kiwis for. And WTF does Trump have to do with this?

[Katman]

And WTF does Trump have to do with this?

I think he means you're as dumb as him.

[nerrrd]

The virus don't care about fair.

But, since we are not viruses, let me address your concern about the alleged unfairness of hindsight...

Wow you’ve obviously gone over all this with a fine tooth comb, good for you. I can’t speak to any political machinations that may or may not have gone on in the background as I don’t scrutinise every single statement made by those involved in such minute detail.

So speaking in generalities as is my wont, the number of cases in NZ went up steeply towards the end of March, we went into lockdown, they started to go down. I don’t see how that can be dismissed as there being no curve to flatten. Again, cases started popping up in the community in Auckland again, we went into lockdown again, the number of cases declined again. So maybe the strategy of locking down does work, at least in curbing transmission.

As for the numbers suggested in the original modelling, 80,000 people is only 1.6 percent of the total NZ population, which does not seem all that outlandish to me when you put it in those terms as a possible risk factor for a largely unknown (at the time) and extremely virulent disease.

Even using that current 0.02% fatality figure which you quote from the CDC, that’s 1000 people - twice the number you quote for the annual number of flu deaths in NZ. Given that there should be a great deal of immunity already in the community for flu thanks to yearly outbreaks and widespread vaccination, I don’t blame anyone for being concerned that the number of deaths from COVID 19, for which there is no immunity, could blow out to levels that would be unacceptable to the general population.

Anyway from my perspective it is far too early to be saying we should have done this or that differently and it was obvious all along that only certain people were at risk etc etc. I don’t see any conclusive evidence yet that the measures taken were unreasonable or ineffective, or that the health authorities are not taking note of new information and adjusting their strategy to suit. So we disagree.

[RDJ]

Hmmm. Let me put it another way.

If the pandemic was / is a lethal and as contagious as advertised we would not be debating its severity.

Many people would be sick, a large number would be in hospital and a lot more would be dead or in Intensive Care.

The unpoliced Burn-Loot-Murder protests would have spread contagion throughout the Auckland isthmus, and the Sturgis motorcycle rally would have done the same throughout the states contiguous with and adjacent to South Dakota.

Hospitals would be full and large percentages of health care workers inside and outside the hospitals would be ill, and / or quarantining themselves from their families and others; their occupational mortality rate would be in double figures. (Many senior medical staff are like me - well over 60, overweight, and with co-morbidities).

Supermarket workers would, sadly, have made up a large % of casualties so far as would hotel staff in quarantine hotels.

You and I would know personally people in hospital, in ICU, or in the funeral home as a result of WuFlu.

And if we used the same methodology of assigning deaths to the yearly StandardFlu as we are doing with the ChiWuFlu, the annual flu death rate (i.e. by counting everybody who died with flu-like symptoms, or from other causes but with a positive flu test in the last 30, 60, or 90 days, and so on) then our annual seasonal flu death rate in 2019 would have been at least 2 orders of magnitude greater. i.e. 50,000 not 500.

And of course if Ardern and Bloomfield and PieWatts and Hipkisser & Co really believed their rhetoric of risk, they would distancing themselves from each other, let alone getting selfies up close and personal with the great unwashed.

None of the above is happening.

***

The reason I have kept tabs on both the science and the spruiking from the beginning i.e. January, is because at the outset, I said to myself, "Self, WTF. This must be serious. Because the ChiComs just trashed the economy of their whole province. They've locked down first 5, then 9, then 15 million people in a couple of weeks! What are they so scared of? What do they know that they are not telling?"

Also, I worked in Asia during the first SARS outbreak; and in Africa during the last-but-one Ebola outbreak; and I thought "Oh F, here we go, the Full Captain Trips experience is possible."

Then as I watched and listened and read - lo and behold, it came to pass that...

1. The ChiComs forbade domestic travel from Wuhan while letting all international travel out of Wuhan continue for the CNY global dispora. Q.E.D.
2. The initially frighteningly high CFR (case fatality rate) kept going down as more tests were done.
3. Major political, financial and PR incentives were globally put in place to assign deaths to ChiVirus whenever possible.
4. The old people were disproportionately hit (Italy, New York, Belgium etc). But the annualized death rate for the over-70s remained relatively flat.
5. Politicians loved them their new controls over normies - but did not try anything with BLM, iwi, gangs etc.
...there's more of course.


You don't, you know, need to be a weatherman to see which way the wind blows.

[nerrrd]

Hmmm. Let me put it another way...

I may have missed a memo somewhere along the way, but I don’t remember being told we were all going to die.

What I do remember being told is that if nothing was done COVID 19 would spread quickly throughout the population, a significant number of people would become ill enough to require hospital treatment, which would overwhelm the limited resources available and likely lead to a very large number of deaths which would not have occurred otherwise.

So we did the lockdown, broke the chain of transmission, and the number of deaths ends up being very small. That seems like a successful strategy to me. I don’t see how anyone can claim categorically that a different, less restrictive approach would have had the same successful result - the evidence overseas seems to be do nothing, really bad things happen, do something, not so bad.

So I was never expecting the nightmare scenario you describe, but maybe I’m just an optimist. Whether the cost to the country of achieving that successful outcome was ‘worth it’ is definitely up for debate.

[RDJ]

We were told 80,000 Kiwis would die if we were not locked down. If you missed that, no worries, a lot of other people heard it and read it.

In other, yet relevant news: in the UK...

"How close is the NHS to being 'overwhelmed'? Just 1,800 out of 110,000 occupied beds are taken up by Covid-19 patients as thousands more than normal die at home of other causes."


The choice was never binary: do nothing or do everything. There was a range of choices and trade-offs to be made but the Princess of the Pestilence took us down a one-way cul-de-sac and won't back out of it.

[F5 Dave]

And the UK and the US and most others have had far worse economic consequences than NZ. Should we try get in on that action?

[RDJ]

And the UK and the US and most others have had far worse economic consequences than NZ. Should we try get in on that action?

Sure, Dave, sure.

The OECD estimates that New Zealand’s GDP will fall by 8.9 per cent this year, worse than the OECD average of 7.5 per cent.

The U.S. economy is forecast to contract 6.1% this year.

New Zealand had huge advantages in terms of isolation, distance and small population, yet our extremely heavy lockdown has resulted in a worse economic outcome than most.

Two thirds of OECD countries expected to fare better economically than New Zealand. Australia and South Korea are only expected to contract by 5 per cent and 1.2 per cent this year respectively.

You were saying, Dave?

[Viking01]

Sure, Dave, sure.

The OECD estimates that New Zealand’s GDP will fall by 8.9 per cent this year, worse than the OECD average of 7.5 per cent.

The U.S. economy is forecast to contract 6.1% this year.

New Zealand had huge advantages in terms of isolation, distance and small population, yet our extremely heavy lockdown has resulted in a worse economic outcome than most.

Two thirds of OECD countries expected to fare better economically than New Zealand. Australia and South Korea are only expected to contract by 5 per cent and 1.2 per cent this year respectively.

You were saying, Dave?

Morning.

Could you provide a link to the data that you presented?

So, given that you said earlier that there were options in-between (i) do nothing (ii) lockdown borders, what were you proposing?

Cheers,
Viking

[nerrrd]

We were told 80,000 Kiwis would die if we were not locked down. If you missed that, no worries, a lot of other people heard it and read it.

I know I may be quibbling, but I think the modelling said 80,000 could die if nothing were done. I’m pretty sure the official communications were only talking in general terms (thousands, maybe tens of thousands) at the time.

The government were subsequently quizzed by journalists about the modelling when it became public knowledge and conceded that it influenced their decision making.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/covid-19-could-kill-80000-new-zealanders

[pritch]

I was listening to Hosking (briefly) this morning and basically he rates the NZ response an over raaction.

In the early days we were receiving reports of what was happening in Italy. People were lying in hospital corridors, there were no beds or ventilators available. It was a nightmare scenario, and that being the information available at the time, that's what the government prepared for.

Should we open up the borders too soon, we could still experience that situation.

[RDJ]

I was listening to Hosking (briefly) this morning and basically he rates the NZ response an over raaction.

In the early days we were receiving reports of what was happening in Italy. People were lying in hospital corridors, there were no beds or ventilators available. It was a nightmare scenario, and that being the information available at the time, that's what the government prepared for.

Should we open up the borders too soon, we could still experience that situation.

In Italy early on, there were daily flights into Milan direct from Virus Epicenter Wuhan.

There are approx 100,000 of Chinese workers in the fashion and automotive industries in Lombardy and Milan.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/videos/international/covid-19-did-you-know-about-italys-china-connection/videoshow/74694266.cms

Also Italy has an unusually high number of elderly living with multiple generations in the same house.

Then, Xi shut down domestic travel out of Wuhan but left international travel open for CNY.

Plus, early on it was unclear that people could be asymptomatic and still contagious i.e. Italian hospital staff did not know people could transmit infection while asymptomatic.

That was then, this is now. Yet in NZ we still "go lockdown".

Also the NZ government did NOT prepare at all adequately, either for ICUs being full and staff getting infected*, nor for a secure border.

*I along with many others had to buy my own PPE. Fortunately I still had enough to share as after SARS and Ebola I decided not to get caught out.

I know that is not the 'hard and fast' paid-for-with-$50-million-of our-tax-dollars narrative that the Princess of the Pestilence would like the country to believe; hence the importance of doing one's own research.

[husaberg]

Sure, Dave, sure.

The OECD estimates that New Zealand’s GDP will fall by 8.9 per cent this year, worse than the OECD average of 7.5 per cent.

The U.S. economy is forecast to contract 6.1% this year.

New Zealand had huge advantages in terms of isolation, distance and small population, yet our extremely heavy lockdown has resulted in a worse economic outcome than most.

Two thirds of OECD countries expected to fare better economically than New Zealand. Australia and South Korea are only expected to contract by 5 per cent and 1.2 per cent this year respectively.

You were saying, Dave?


Morning.

Could you provide a link to the data that you presented?

So, given that you said earlier that there were options in-between (i) do nothing (ii) lockdown borders, what were you proposing?

Cheers,
Viking

It came from a press release from the NZ National party
for those that don't believe me
347408

here is the actual OECD report rather than a cherry-pick from the low hanging fruitloop that is Natiional.
347409

[Viking01]

it came from a press release from the NZ National party
don't believe me
347408

here is the actual OECD report rather than a cherry-pick from the low hanging fruitloop that is Natiional.
347409

Evening.
Thanks for that info. I hadn't been able to find exactly that data in any of the OECD documents I had read (saved) recently. So i wondered from where it had been sourced.
Cheers,
Viking.

[RDJ]

http://www.oecd.org/economy/new-zealand-economic-snapshot/

[Viking01]

New US paper on vaccine uptake:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2020926

[F5 Dave]

I'd expect the poll could have been done in a Vowel state. Anywhere that they think their best defense is a gun. I guess Cali would be more enlightened. Hippies and Facebook mums aside.

I did have a giggle considering if they ended up having to buy a Chinese produced vaccine in desperation and trying to sell the idea to entire redneck States who would scream blue murder at the thought. But that is actually a terrible scenario as the whole world needs to squash this. We are not and island.
Well yes we technically are, quite a few islands, but that's not my point. Planes make that a bit redundant, and we need the world economy to recover to trade.

[Katman]

New US paper on vaccine uptake:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2020926

Mandatory vaccination can get fucked.

[F5 Dave]

Not sure what you are worried about, your cellphone is already controlling your thoughts and buying decisions:Police:. Quick! . Stamp on it and set yourself free. :wings:

[jasonu]

I'd expect the poll could have been done in a Vowel state. Anywhere that they think their best defense is a gun. I guess Cali would be more enlightened. Hippies and Facebook mums aside.

I did have a giggle considering if they ended up having to buy a Chinese produced vaccine in desperation and trying to sell the idea to entire redneck States who would scream blue murder at the thought. But that is actually a terrible scenario as the whole world needs to squash this. We are not and island.
Well yes we technically are, quite a few islands, but that's not my point. Planes make that a bit redundant, and we need the world economy to recover to trade.

Dave mate it looks like you've been sucked off by false advertising.

[F5 Dave]

What do you mean by that? Coronavirus is not real? This is going to be gone and we'll be better than ever.

Jeez it would be serious ironing if the orange fella caught the supposed china virus.

Me I prefer winners rather than losers.

[Condyn]

They say the orange man does indeed have covid. I live in a so called hotspot and have never met anyone who has contracted covid. The media seems very misleading in this.

[pritch]

They say the orange man does indeed have covid. I live in a so called hotspot and have never met anyone who has contracted covid. The media seems very misleading in this.

210,000 people might disgree, but they aren't available to comment.

[husaberg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a2t8HEimcY
Wife: Why did you lie to me about having an STD?
Husband: I didn't want to cause a panic. The STD is the hookers fault blame them.

[RDJ]

Dr Anthony Fauci: “There’s no reason to be walking around with a mask. When you’re in the middle of an outbreak wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better, and it might even block a droplet, but it’s not providing the perfect protection people think that it is.”

The Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy, located at the University of Minnesota, declared that there was no data available to support recommendations for mask use by the general public: “We do not recommend requiring the general public who do not have COVID-19-like illness to routinely wear cloth or surgical masks because there is no scientific evidence they are effective in reducing the risk of SARS-CoV-2 transmission.”

The Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) agrees: “Face masks should not be worn by healthy individuals to protect themselves from acquiring respiratory infection because there is no evidence to suggest that face masks worn by healthy individuals are effective in preventing people from becoming ill.”

The American Association of Physicians and Surgeons: “Cloth masks will be ineffective at preventing SARS-CoV-2 transmission, whether worn as source control or as personal protective equipment (PPE). Surgical masks are better than cloth but not very efficient at preventing emissions from infected patients.”

...even the N95 mask which I used in previous SARS and viral outbreaks, and which is in very short supply relative to cloth and surgical masks, is 95% effective at preventing contamination by particles that are three microns or larger. COVID-19 is .125 of a micron. Math. It's a thing.

[husaberg]

Sure, Dave, sure.

The OECD estimates that New Zealand’s GDP will fall by 8.9 per cent this year, worse than the OECD average of 7.5 per cent.

The U.S. economy is forecast to contract 6.1% this year.

New Zealand had huge advantages in terms of isolation, distance and small population, yet our extremely heavy lockdown has resulted in a worse economic outcome than most.

Two thirds of OECD countries expected to fare better economically than New Zealand. Australia and South Korea are only expected to contract by 5 per cent and 1.2 per cent this year respectively.

You were saying, Dave?


Morning.

Could you provide a link to the data that you presented?

So, given that you said earlier that there were options in-between (i) do nothing (ii) lockdown borders, what were you proposing?

Cheers,
Viking


It came from a press release from the NZ National party
for those that don't believe me
347408

http://www.oecd.org/economy/new-zealand-economic-snapshot/

here is the actual OECD report rather than a cherry-pick from the low hanging fruitloop that is Natiional.
347409

At which point do you admit you quoted the NZ national party rather than the report as you claimed?
because it clearly obvious its word for word...........From a NZ national party press release.

by the way you also bs the oecd figures for the USA
https://www.oecd.org/economy/united-states-economic-snapshot/

[F5 Dave]

Dr Anthony Fauci: “There’s no reason to be walking around with a mask. When you’re in the middle of an outbreak wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better, and it might even block a droplet, but it’s not providing the perfect protection people think that it is.”

The Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy, located at the University of Minnesota, declared that there was no data available to support recommendations for mask use by the general public: “We do not recommend requiring the general public who do not have COVID-19-like illness to routinely wear cloth or surgical masks because there is no scientific evidence they are effective in reducing the risk of SARS-CoV-2 transmission.”

The Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) agrees: “Face masks should not be worn by healthy individuals to protect themselves from acquiring respiratory infection because there is no evidence to suggest that face masks worn by healthy individuals are effective in preventing people from becoming ill.”

The American Association of Physicians and Surgeons: “Cloth masks will be ineffective at preventing SARS-CoV-2 transmission, whether worn as source control or as personal protective equipment (PPE). Surgical masks are better than cloth but not very efficient at preventing emissions from infected patients.”

...even the N95 mask which I used in previous SARS and viral outbreaks, and which is in very short supply relative to cloth and surgical masks, is 95% effective at preventing contamination by particles that are three microns or larger. COVID-19 is .125 of a micron. Math. It's a thing.

Typical Trump supporter tactics. Try to deflect criticism of Satan by pointing at Jesus and saying. Well, he was Jewish.

[Katman]

Well, he was Jewish.

You're onto it.

[F5 Dave]

And how old is that Fauci quote? Was it last week? Was it 7 months ago?

207,000 American deaths. No national response. Criticism of states that tried to contain the outbreak. Because he didn't want the economy to look bad. Too stupid to realise that the effect was inevitable.

That isn't a leader. That's a total Kunt with no respect for the life of the common people. Doesn't give a shit who dies as long as his ego has been fed.

[F5 Dave]

You're onto it.

God. You are Oldrider

[nerrrd]

...even the N95 mask which I used in previous SARS and viral outbreaks, and which is in very short supply relative to cloth and surgical masks, is 95% effective at preventing contamination by particles that are three microns or larger. COVID-19 is .125 of a micron. Math. It's a thing.

Except unless you’ve been hanging around any laboratories, you’re highly unlikely to encounter the virus in it’s raw state. It’ll be carried in someone else’s spit/mucus/breath.

If masks help us all keep that lovely stuff to ourselves, I’m OK with that. Coincidentally I look pretty good in a mask.

And math isn’t a thing, we call it mathematics in these here parts.

[husaberg]

Except unless you’ve been hanging around any laboratories, you’re highly unlikely to encounter the virus in it’s raw state. It’ll be carried in someone else’s spit/mucus/breath.

If masks help us all keep that lovely stuff to ourselves, I’m OK with that. Coincidentally I look pretty good in a mask.

And math isn’t a thing, we call it mathematics in these here parts.


A study by a team of researchers led by a Texas A&M University professor has found that not wearing a face mask dramatically increases a person's chances of being infected by the COVID-19 virus.

Renyi Zhang, Texas A&M Distinguished Professor of Atmospheric Sciences and the Harold J. Haynes Chair in the College of Geosciences, and colleagues from the University of Texas, the University of California-San Diego and the California Institute of Technology have had their work published in the current issue of PNAS (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences).

The team examined the chances of COVID-19 infection and how the virus is easily passed from person to person. From trends and mitigation procedures in China, Italy and New York City, the researchers found that using a face mask reduced the number of infections by more than 78,000 in Italy from April 6-May 9 and by over 66,000 in New York City from April 17-May 9.

"Our results clearly show that airborne transmission via respiratory aerosols represents the dominant route for the spread of COVID-19," Zhang said. "By analyzing the pandemic trends without face-covering using the statistical method and by projecting the trend, we calculated that over 66,000 infections were prevented by using a face mask in little over a month in New York City. We conclude that wearing a face mask in public corresponds to the most effective means to prevent inter-human transmission.

"This inexpensive practice, in conjunction with social distancing and other procedures, is the most likely opportunity to stop the COVID-19 pandemic. Our work also highlights that sound science is essential in decision-making for the current and future public health pandemics."

One of the paper's co-authors, Mario Molina, is a professor at the University of California-San Diego and a co-recipient of the 1995 Nobel Prize.
so we have a noble prize winner vs RDJ.......:msn-wink:

[Condyn]

210,000 people might disgree, but they aren't available to comment.
If you jump out of a helicopter and die, and have tested “positive” In the previous months, you are one of the bogus stats. Hmm preexisting stage 4 cancer. Acquired a cough. COVID! Died a week later. “It was not the cancer, it was COVID!

[pritch]

If you jump out of a helicopter and die, and have tested “positive” In the previous months, you are one of the bogus stats. Hmm preexisting stage 4 cancer. Acquired a cough. COVID! Died a week later. “It was not the cancer, it was COVID!

I've jumped out of helicopters. One was a bit high, I was "positive" i didn't want to do that again.

There may be instances such as you describe, but the true death toll is higher than the official figures. The scientists won't be fooled by crooked politicians, they know how to deal with them, the US is not the only country with those.

[Kickaha]

If you jump out of a helicopter and die, and have tested “positive” In the previous months, you are one of the bogus stats. Hmm preexisting stage 4 cancer. Acquired a cough. COVID! Died a week later. “It was not the cancer, it was COVID!

How do you account for all the excess deaths over and above what is the normal average ?

[F5 Dave]

If you jump out of a helicopter and die, and have tested “positive” In the previous months, you are one of the bogus stats. Hmm preexisting stage 4 cancer. Acquired a cough. COVID! Died a week later. “It was not the cancer, it was COVID!

Jesus Titty fucking Christ you are a complete dork.

5G probably caused it along with Chinese takeaway.

So full of shit. Can't see that real people are affected or just don't care.

Holy ghost fucking God's arse.

[FJRider]

If you jump out of a helicopter and die, and have tested “positive” In the previous months, you are one of the bogus stats. Hmm preexisting stage 4 cancer. Acquired a cough. COVID! Died a week later. “It was not the cancer, it was COVID!

BULLSHIT ... in all of the NZ "Covid" death reports ... anybody dying after testing positive ... will get the mention of other underlying medical conditions (which contributed to the death) if they had any.

By your theory ... anybody dying of gunshot wounds ... might get their death recorded as Lead poisoning ... :shifty:

[pritch]

Well it made me laugh.

[F5 Dave]

I think he just likes Satan's tender touch.:love:

oh Condyn accept you want it.

[Condyn]

F5 I certainly do not want satans tender touch. That is disturbing. Is there a virus? Yes. If you think that certain political parties have not amped this thing up for their own good, think again. The White House response coordinator has pointed out the fact that other countries will account for pre-existing conditions in their reports, however in the US if somebody dies with COVID and not from COVID, the death will still be marked as COVID. Clearly I learned my lesson and this is not the place to have an opinion that goes against the grain. The way the US has conducted testing and data collection from the start is absolute trash. May it be different elsewhere? I would sure hope so.

[F5 Dave]

Just came on here a bit more sober to delete that comment. Just seemed a bit harsh on those that died or are badly affected.

[jasonu]

but the true death toll is higher than the official figures. .

How the fuck do you know that?

[jasonu]

Jesus Titty fucking Christ you are a complete dork.

5G probably caused it along with Chinese takeaway.

So full of shit. Can't see that real people are affected or just don't care.

Holy ghost fucking God's arse.

Dave exactly that is happening here especially with the old people. We see reports listing the deaths that almost all say things like 80 years old with underlying conditions. There have been plenty of news items from families complaining the death certificates say cause of death is covid when poor old grandma had alsymers, infosema, cancer etc and was about dead anyway. Died WITH covid instead of died OF covis is more accurate in these cases.

[pritch]

That Trump's actions might be considered insane does not exactly come as a surprise. Or it shouldn't.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2020/10/04/trump-covid-live-updates/#link-O3SGLJO6CBFWHB5OGWNEOYKCCM

[pritch]

Slightly amusing that people who use Fox as their sole news source find some comments here surprising. Had they only followed the thread they would be able to answer their own question.
We won't call it Fox News since they had to defend themselves in court by saying that basically everybody should know they're talking crap. (Don't ask for references, that's in a thread in this forum too.)


Research indicated that people who watch Fox know less than people who don't watch the news at all.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fox-news-less-informed-new-study_n_1538914

[Condyn]

If you replaced FOX with CNN or BBC you would have a paragraph that makes sense.

[pritch]

If you replaced FOX with CNN or BBC you would have a paragraph that makes sense.

CNN used to be good, as far as I know the BBC international coverage is still the standard. At least they are both news sources. Fox constantly claims that they are not news, they are commentary. Hannity, Ingraham and Carlson etc are not news they are "commentary or opinion." Did you not see that recent coverage of the court case where Fox defended themselves by basically saying everybody should know not to believe anything Carlson says. That's right of course, but it must have been embarrasing to admit it.

Anyhoo, you're the one who believes the Fox line that the COVID figures are inflated, as opposed to the scientists who consider them under reported. I'll take the scentists over Fox thanks.

[RDJ]

“Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century:
Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others;
Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected;
Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it;
Refusing to set aside trivial preferences;
Neglecting development and refinement of the mind;
Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do.”
― Marcus Tullius Cicero

[Kickaha]

How the fuck do you know that?

They look at total deaths vs the yearly average for the same time and see how many excess deaths they have, a few places think it is under reported because of the excess deaths for the period over and above covid reported deaths

[Condyn]

They look at total deaths vs the yearly average for the same time and see how many excess deaths they have, a few places think it is under reported because of the excess deaths for the period over and above covid reported deaths
You have to account for hundreds of variables here. For one depression and suicide is maxed out due to the lockdowns. Also I could be full of shit on this one but there could very well be a higher number of humans at their average life expectancy age than there was last year?

[pritch]

I see Kayleigh still has her job this morning but she has also tested positive, as have two of her colleagues.

Super spreader Trump is going back to the White House. The circus continues.

[F5 Dave]

Pity it didn't lay him out like Boris. Might have taught him some humility.
Though probably not.

[pritch]

Pity it didn't lay him out like Boris. Might have taught him some humility.
Though probably not.

It's hard to figure out what was going on with all the misinformation provided by his osteopath. The treatment he was stated to have received was aggressive, some of it contraindicated in mild cases, yet he's out after a few days. If he actually had the disease he's probably still contagious.

He's already said this morning that COVID is nothing to be afraid of, but not everybody gets rushed to Walter Reed and has enough doctors to field a football team.

[Condyn]

Patriotic Americans love What President Trump has done for our country. The corruption in liberal media and social media has damned our nation. We are now a mockery. Let me tell you this. I live in a state that has voted liberal since the 1970’s. People are sick of the media lies here and that’s a fact. I pass hundreds of Trump signs on my way to work and 2 Joe Biden signs. His handling of COVID has been just fine. Hindsight is 20/20 and we can only vote for 4 more years! We cherish our freedom.

[RDJ]

"An estimated 750 million, or 10 per cent of the world’s population, have been infected by Covid-19, World Health Organisation (WHO) official Dr Mike Ryan has said."

Right, Dr Ryan.

The WHO also claims there have been 1 million deaths.

Let's assume you got that right.

That means a case fatality rate of - wait for it - 0.13%.

What's the usual / seasonal flu CFR? Why yes, about 0.1%.

Tar, feathers, politicians, modelers. Some assembly required.

[Condyn]

The modeling is a crock of shit. Dont forget to bring enough tar for the billionaires who are seizing this opportunity to invest in worthless vaccines. I would rather inject Donald Trumps Lysol than a mystery potion provided by the government.

[F5 Dave]

. . His handling of COVID has been just fine. . . .

Hahaha. Now I know you are just trolling. No national leadership leaving it to States who flummoxed largely left it to counties to try and cope.

Yes Trump has made the US a mockery in the eyes of the world. We are lucky we are living in times where the geopolitical climate is relatively benign. A strong US was critical in the hands of say Truman or Reagan. If Trump was to stand off in their place the world would be a very different place.

[husaberg]

"An estimated 750 million, or 10 per cent of the world’s population, have been infected by Covid-19, World Health Organisation (WHO) official Dr Mike Ryan has said."

Right, Dr Ryan.

The WHO also claims there have been 1 million deaths.

Let's assume you got that right.

That means a case fatality rate of - wait for it - 0.13%.

What's the usual / seasonal flu CFR? Why yes, about 0.1%.

Tar, feathers, politicians, modelers. Some assembly required.

odd............

Globally, as of 3:54pm CEST, 5 October 2020, there have been 35,109,317 confirmed cases of COVID-19, including 1,035,341 deaths, reported to WHO.
https://covid19.who.int/

so what you did was used an estimate then used the confirmed deaths and then used that for your maths to achieve a result you wanted.

An estimated 750 million, or 10 per cent of the world’s population, have been infected by Covid-19, World Health Organisation (WHO) official Dr Mike Ryan has said.

The Irish-born executive director of the WHO’s health emergencies programme said he was worried for the fate of the 90 per cent of people who have not had the disease.

He estimated 10 per cent as “our best guess” in relation to the global rate of infection to date and those who have antibodies for the virus.



odd you didn't put in the bits where he praised NZ prime minster either.
Were you waiting for another press release. from the national party.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-world-in-for-a-hell-of-a-ride-in-coming-months-dr-mike-ryan-says-1.4370626


He exempted German chancellor Angela Merkel and New Zealand prime minister Jacinda Arden from the criticism.
“Some of the best political leadership I have seen in the last nine months have come from women. We need to think and reflect on that and what is that leadership style that brings society together during a crisis.”
Dr Ryan said developed countries had become “entirely complacent of infectious diseases” and associated them with poorer countries.

why not use the confirmed cases and the confirmed deaths did that not give you the result you wanted.

[pritch]

why not use the confirmed cases and the confirmed deaths did that not give you the result you wanted.

My maths is pretty much overs and unders, but doing the sum with the official figures gives a fatality rate of about 3% which is close to the 3.4% predicted earlier.

[husaberg]

My maths is pretty much overs and unders, but doing the sum with the official figures gives a fatality rate of about 3% which is close to the 3.4% predicted earlier.
But a long way from the RDJ calculated figure of .13% or about 30 times higher.
Its odd he chose to mix and maths his figures and souces unless he wanted to produce a certain result.

[husaberg]

It's hard to figure out what was going on with all the misinformation provided by his osteopath. The treatment he was stated to have received was aggressive, some of it contraindicated in mild cases, yet he's out after a few days. If he actually had the disease he's probably still contagious.

He's already said this morning that COVID is nothing to be afraid of, but not everybody gets rushed to Walter Reed and has enough doctors to field a football team.

Trump was admitted to the Walter Reed Medical Center in Maryland on Friday after testing positive for the coronavirus.
In a tweet some hours before his departure he said he was feeling "really good" and he urged people not to be afraid of the virus, nor to let it dominate their lives.
"Though he may not entirely be out of the woods yet, the team and I agree that all our evaluations and most importantly his clinical status support the president's safe return home, where he'll be surrounded by world class medical care 24/7."
Doctors at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center in Bethesda, Maryland, have been treating Trump, 74, with a steroid, dexmethasone, that is normally used only in the most severe cases.
Trump was given supplemental oxygen after his blood oxygen levels dropped.
He would have a fourth dose of the intravenous antiviral drug, remdesivir,
So as long as you have access to 24/7 unlimited cost medical treatment and expensive experimental drugs and other drugs normally only available to the most serious cases you really have nothing to worry about.;)

[Grumph]

Trump was admitted to the Walter Reed Medical Center in Maryland on Friday after testing positive for the coronavirus.
In a tweet some hours before his departure he said he was feeling "really good" and he urged people not to be afraid of the virus, nor to let it dominate their lives.
"Though he may not entirely be out of the woods yet, the team and I agree that all our evaluations and most importantly his clinical status support the president's safe return home, where he'll be surrounded by world class medical care 24/7."
Doctors at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center in Bethesda, Maryland, have been treating Trump, 74, with a steroid, dexmethasone, that is normally used only in the most severe cases.
Trump was given supplemental oxygen after his blood oxygen levels dropped.
He would have a fourth dose of the intravenous antiviral drug, remdesivir,
So as long as you have access to 24/7 unlimited cost medical treatment and expensive experimental drugs and other drugs normally only available to the most serious cases you really have nothing to worry about.;)

I'd point out too that the steroid he was given is known to have euphoric side effects. Which is what we're seeing now.
the longer they give it to him, the bigger the crash when they stop.

I'm pretty sure it's the same steroid i get prior to chemo. it's good shit....Just as well i don't have access to twitter, lol.

[pritch]

I'd point out too that the steroid he was given is known to have euphoric side effects. Which is what we're seeing now.
the longer they give it to him, the bigger the crash when they stop.

I'm pretty sure it's the same steroid i get prior to chemo. it's good shit....Just as well i don't have access to twitter, lol.

Yeah, a woman reported having been on it and having weird conversations and offending people. Just the thing for a guy with the nuclear codes. Trump is already assumed to be an addict by some so he may not want to go off this and, right or wrong, he usually gets his way.

[husaberg]

Yeah, a woman reported having been on it and having weird conversations and offending people. Just the thing for a guy with the nuclear codes. Trump is already assumed to be an addict by some so he may not want to go off this and, right or wrong, he usually gets his way.

With symptoms like that, how would we know trump hasn't been taking it sinse 2016?

[pritch]

It's a funny old world. A fifteen year old kid might be giving us better information than the tame medical poodles.

https://www.palmerreport.com/analysis/kellyanne-conway-curses-at-claudia-conway-as-trump-coronavirus-scandal-gets-even-uglier/32861/

[husaberg]

It's a funny old world. A fifteen year old kid might be giving us better information than the tame medical poodles.

https://www.palmerreport.com/analysis/kellyanne-conway-curses-at-claudia-conway-as-trump-coronavirus-scandal-gets-even-uglier/32861/

Pretty sure over 3/4 of the worlds 15 year olds have a higher IQ than trump or 3/4 of his voters do

[pritch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tZVnbDq9B4

[F5 Dave]

In other news; America surprise election of an independent. A woman.

Satan pops into Kathmandu for a neck warmer and some new slippers.

[pritch]

This is quite clever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C76XMCJCVs

[Viking01]

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/10/21/brazilian-volunteer-in-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-trial-dies

then:

https://www.scmp.com/news/world/americas/article/3106550/brazils-jair-bolsonaro-shoots-down-plan-buy-coronavirus-vaccine

[F5 Dave]

So. . .ahhh.
You know that a vaccination doesn't make you suddenly immortal yeah?

Just checking yeah.

And he could have been a control on Placebo.

[husaberg]

So. . .ahhh.
You know that a vaccination doesn't make you suddenly immortal yeah?

Just checking yeah.

And he could have been a control on Placebo.

Pazuello, an army general, is Brazil’s third health minister of the pandemic.

His predecessors left after clashing with Bolsonaro, including over the president’s insistence on using the drug hydroxychloroquine to treat coronavirus despite studies showing it is ineffective.

[FJRider]

So. . .ahhh.
You know that a vaccination doesn't make you suddenly immortal yeah?

Just checking yeah.

And he could have been a control on Placebo.



Or died of something ... totally unconnected to Covid.

[R650R]

Why are we allowing super spreader door knocking canvassers???

In my experience (chatting up the odd pretty one) most of these cold callers are usually Akld or Whtn based andctravel the country. Aside from the standard level of suburbian intrusiveness if we are serious about stopping his virus we should be banning unsolicited visits to private premises.

My neighbour has immune disorder and the last thing they need is some random super spreader at their door.

[husaberg]

Why are we allowing super spreader door knocking canvassers???

In my experience (chatting up the odd pretty one) most of these cold callers are usually Akld or Whtn based andctravel the country. Aside from the standard level of suburbian intrusiveness if we are serious about stopping his virus we should be banning unsolicited visits to private premises.

My neighbour has immune disorder and the last thing they need is some random super spreader at their door.

Weren't you the guy that earlier claimed it was only an alleged virus in NZ?


Well well well, our journey into communist hell continues.

There has only been 1650 alleged cases (out of 700,000 tests!!!!) of the virus, but what has spread faster has been submission to communist control.
Nearly 2 million have downloaded the Covid app so you can be sent to a govt “ health” camp to catch the virus if you didnt already have it.
But yay 3 million kiwis have said no to turning their phone into govt spy device.
It’s quite clear now as the mountain of contradictions grow that it’s not about stopping the “virus”..
Masks are for destroying social interaction and communication with strangers. You know those moments in life when some shitbag is bashing his missus and enough of you make visual contact to know you’ve got each other back and intervene.
But with masks there will never be any Flight 93 “lets roll” moments of bravery, you’ll never know if your fellow citizen is a Karen or Stasi as you reluctantly board the blacked out train carriage...


So is the virus alleged? or the cases of the virus alleged? or the number of cases?
I am genuinely interested.

[Viking01]

https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article/3107029/coronavirus-us-white-house-chief-staff-says-were

[pritch]

In Britain some idiots are suggesting a break from the virus restrictions. A "ceasefire" such as the one that occurred in the trenches during WW1. How they propose to get the virus to cease firing was not explained.

Then there's this: