Beehive occupation.

[husaberg]

If it's so easily managed they why has it been going on for a couple of months and her having to see a cardiologist ?

It is when it goes on for weeks at a time along with other side effects




So it's a known side effect but your Doc dismisses as too much caffeine, shows how seriously the medical profession are taking any side effects

woooooo Perhaps as they have not found a cause related to the vaccination or not found what they would expect perhaps what they have found is not related to the vaccintion
i am only saying exactly what was said to me on Friday when i got my booster.
Nice nurse a bit of a sore arm and a bit of cottonmouth and dehydration mild fever and tiredness.
ie no worse than drinking a doz beers

In regards to Pritch was his symptoms at the same time as te vaX?

[husaberg]

Oh dear, you were almost doing well. I'll not highlight the flaws in your comprehension this time... suffice to say that you're not the only one to have made the same mistake, albeit the first who made that mistake was a really rather intelligent woman and clicked on pretty quick to her mistaken understanding.
Years ago it was still then a notifiable disease as were were very concerned about it ie Sars etc are you going to produce the paperwork
i only ask as you have a history of spreading untruths.
Also not one previous have you mentioned it in the history of KB not at the time not until the other day.

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d1ef36a393cbd87152f5a1fce9e72458

[TheDemonLord]

I might suggest ... you are a total fuckwit. So by that ... you are then obviously wrong.

Whether I'm a total Fuckwit or not has no bearing on the fact that both of you cannot be correct, and since you both use the same evidence to support your statements - the most likely outcome is that you are both wrong.



I might have suggested in the past in previous posts ... your grip on reality has been slipping badly. I fear you have no grasp on any form of reality whatsoever. If you do ... it's not been shown in any of your posts.

REALITY ... it didn't happen. Get a grip (or take your hand of it) You're just making yourself look stupid.

I don't think THAT at all ... and nothing whatsoever to do with ethics.

It's called a hypothetical scenario for a reason... but fortunately you then said this:


And nothing goes into my body ... I don't have a dam good reason for ...

And there we have it folks. A very nicely and neatly articulated belief in Bodily Autonomy. As you said, nothing goes into your body that you don't have a damn good reason for.

The 'anti-vaxxers', the Anti-Mandate folks, the pro-freedom group - they all entirely agree that nothing should go in THEIR bodies that THEY don't have a damn good reason for.

That statement proves the entire point I was making.

You believe you have a right to Bodily Autonomy, as evidenced by that one statement, the protestors believe they have a right to it to.


being happy about it ... is sometimes overrated. As long as I agree to it.

And as far as the jabs go .. I agreed to get them.

Exactly, you agreed, I agreed - I agreed of my own volition, without any fiat of compulsion or force. That's the standard that I expect. Anything else is Tyranny.


Nope ... your arguments haven't stopped.

But you are not compelled to listen or to read them. You choose to.


Just YOUR opinions ... with little validity to back them up.p

Except all that science stuff and data stuff and the opinion of the person that discovered it and reality.


The Allied nations wanted them jailed ... some of them were wanted dead.

It happened. Some hung ... some jailed for the rest of their lives.

Journalists reporting that ... repeated the official line as to their crimes ... and ... degree of guilt. They had NO say in the sentencing. They just reported what they were allowed to report.

Sure, I remember Lord Haw Haw was hung - however his mere existence proves that at one point in time Journalists were willing, even in wartime, to give contrary opinion.

[TheDemonLord]

I don't do stupid very good.

Just saying.

For someone who keeps calling others Stupid, your continued inability to properly close HTML tags is hilarious.

Maybe you should get your own house in order before criticizing the world...

[TheDemonLord]

TDL will probably be flattered by that comparison.


More amused than anything else.

[TheDemonLord]

It's not funny. It's far from funny. She has conviction and she has belief. She probably has the good lord and fuck knows who else on her imaginary side. But other cunts will listen to her like the gospel.

I know right, it's time people stopped listening to Jacinda...

[neels]

Fucking Wellington protest nutbars


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM-Ze5_vRJY
That is a spectacular summary of the people involved.

I wonder if it is possible to build a spike protein detector, something along the lines of Peter Brock's energy polariser, or IT crowd's 'the internet' would probably do. It appears there would be a good market there...

I'm dubious of the scientific method applied by the king country nurse, I wonder if she routinely opens up recently deceased patients to see what their blood is like. One would hope not as that may traumatise close family of the deceased, however I can't see how else she could have a valid control to compare to.

I've personally seen many vaccinated people donating blood, so the black and clotted and machines not working part is just complete bollocks.

[pritch]

So the feral fuckwits have been throwing human shite at the police. I trust that the portion of our population that approves of that is tiny indeed.

[R650R]

Last time I looked all the police had to do was say in a loud voice, "This is an unlawful assembly." Anybody who remains is breaking the law and facing a year in the big house.


https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1961/0043/latest/DLM328559.html

Police talking in a loud voice is colour of law not actual law but many fall for it assuming police are right.

But if you read the very legislation it say neighbours must fear that the assembly WILL use violence not might or probably but WILL.

Also the media has made ample noise that the protestors share no common purpose lol

Reading that explains s why it’s so hard for cops to do anything to gangs or boyracers....

[husaberg]

That is a spectacular summary of the people involved.

I wonder if it is possible to build a spike protein detector, something along the lines of Peter Brock's energy polariser, or IT crowd's 'the internet' would probably do. It appears there would be a good market there...

I'm dubious of the scientific method applied by the king country nurse, I wonder if she routinely opens up recently deceased patients to see what their blood is like. One would hope not as that may traumatise close family of the deceased, however I can't see how else she could have a valid control to compare to.

I've personally seen many vaccinated people donating blood, so the black and clotted and machines not working part is just complete bollocks.

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d1ef36a393cbd87152f5a1fce9e72458

[Stylo]

So the feral fuckwits have been throwing human shite at the police. I trust that the portion of our population that approves of that is tiny indeed.

Yeah, even animals don't throw their own shit at each other. Or pour it down stormwater drains. Forget about the law abiding New Zealanders who have to tolerate this filthy depravity.

I'm sure R650R and others would approve though. Filthy cunts. Get rid of this scum.

Rubber bullets would be a good start.

[Kickaha]

I've personally seen many vaccinated people donating blood, so the black and clotted and machines not working part is just complete bollocks.

Apparently that just means they got the placebo in the form of a saline injection

[Stylo]

To show a bit of solidarity I just shat on my neighbours lawn.


I felt like Citizen Smith.

You filthy cunt.

[Laava]

That is a spectacular summary of the people involved.

I wonder if it is possible to build a spike protein detector, something along the lines of Peter Brock's energy polariser, or IT crowd's 'the internet' would probably do. It appears there would be a good market there...

I'm dubious of the scientific method applied by the king country nurse, I wonder if she routinely opens up recently deceased patients to see what their blood is like. One would hope not as that may traumatise close family of the deceased, however I can't see how else she could have a valid control to compare to.

I've personally seen many vaccinated people donating blood, so the black and clotted and machines not working part is just complete bollocks.
I would assume this particular fucking idiot is currently not nursing and hope to fuck she never is again. Dangerously stupid! However the idea that people would exude black pudding when sliced, is not without its merits!

[pritch]

But if you read the very legislation it say neighbours must fear that the assembly WILL use violence not might or probably but WILL.


Violence has already occurred so an unlawful assembly could be declared at any time.

[pete376403]

So the feral fuckwits have been throwing human shite at the police. I trust that the portion of our population that approves of that is tiny indeed.

Should be fair enough to turn high pressure hoses on the fuckwits, then (but only for the purpose of cleaning, naturally)

[Stylo]

I know right, it's time people stopped listening to Jacinda...

You must agree then that it's ok to have a dump then throw your own shit at Police. You're a protest supporter.

What have the Police done to deserve this ?

[neels]

Yeah, even animals don't throw their own shit at each other.
True. The monkeys at the zoo wait until children come to visit and throw it at them, and then masturbate in front of them.

Draw your own conclusions....


Apparently that just means they got the placebo in the form of a saline injection
Wonder what they put in the placebo to make you crook as a dog for a couple of days.

[F5 Dave]

Steinlager.

[R650R]

Violence has already occurred so an unlawful assembly could be declared at any time.

A few isolated incidents by various muppets not the crowd as a whole....


“Time to go home” Really Jacinda???? God if mallards weak arse passive aggressive antics weren’t embarrassing enough speaking to adults like children thinking your clever and that they won’t realise your trying to subtly insult them.... every time she opens her mouth it’s another disaster.

Could be Nationals next election slogan lol

[R650R]

Yeah, even animals don't throw their own shit at each other. Or pour it down stormwater drains. Forget about the law abiding New Zealanders who have to tolerate this filthy depravity.

I'm sure R650R and others would approve though. Filthy cunts. Get rid of this scum.

Rubber bullets would be a good start.

No I don’t approve and no normal kiwi would, obviously the wrk of one lone mental defective or perhaps a George Soros funded Antifa agent provacateur. During the BLM protests there were mtiple occasions where legitimately protestors on both sides unearthed provocateurs on the front lines.... one “ off duty” cop even got id after having his gas mask pulled off

[neels]

No I don’t approve and no normal kiwi would, obviously the wrk of one lone mental defective or perhaps a George Soros funded Antifa agent provacateur. During the BLM protests there were mtiple occasions where legitimately protestors on both sides unearthed provocateurs on the front lines.... one “ off duty” cop even got id after having his gas mask pulled off
Appearances would be that there's more than a lone mental defective at the protest.

I doubt George Soros would give a fuck about a small group of protesters here, assuming he even knows we exist, let alone fund them to throw shit at the police.

I am amused though, antifa as in anti fascist, but cindy is a socialist, so who are we actually hating now?

[Kickaha]

obviously the wrk of one lone mental defective or perhaps a George Soros funded Antifa agent provacateur.

The fact you'd even mention George Soros show how fucken stupid you are, but I guess all you nutbars have to have their bogeymen

[husaberg]

No I don’t approve and no normal kiwi would, obviously the wrk of one lone mental defective or perhaps a George Soros funded Antifa agent provacateur. During the BLM protests there were mtiple occasions where legitimately protestors on both sides unearthed provocateurs on the front lines.... one “ off duty” cop even got id after having his gas mask pulled off


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hug0rfFC_L8https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS905XkdMGjjgPUoKkfmxN-LwelwIR4lR6ffw&usqp=CAU

[HenryDorsetCase]

Yeah, even animals don't throw their own shit at each other. Or pour it down stormwater drains. Forget about the law abiding New Zealanders who have to tolerate this filthy depravity.

I'm sure R650R and others would approve though. Filthy cunts. Get rid of this scum.

Rubber bullets would be a good start.

I concur. What I wonder about these protesters is they're standing around, singing, blowing bubbles, chanting, (anything but having a bath) and they look to their left and see an actual Nazi. And they look to their right and see, I dunno, a trumpist fascist. Do they, the filthy hippy (now) minority, swirling their dreads, bunching their tie-died clothes together not wonder, even a tiny bit, about if you're standing shoulder to shoulder with Nazis and white supremacists, maybe, just maybe, they're standing on the wrong side?

Fucking Kelvin Fucknuckle, Kyle chapman, Phillip Arps. The fucking density church. Funded by fucking Steve Bannon. Getting their news from Telegram and fucking QAnon. Do they not know that QAnon was a group of 14 year olds who decided to see how far they could go for a laugh? Best thing I've done this year? Deleted social media: except instagram pics of cats, motorbikes, and bikini models.

Everyone should try it. your lives will be improved.

[husaberg]

Steinlager.

The problem or the solution...

don't worry i got it when i looked back

[TheDemonLord]

Best thing I've done this year? Deleted social media: except instagram pics of cats, motorbikes, and bikini models.

Everyone should try it. your lives will be improved.

For context - I completely disagree with the first part of your post. Even if on the technicality that neither Nazis nor Fascists were known for their love of Freedom and their rebellion against Government Mandates.

That said - this line should be quoted far and wide and often. It is a comment that I wholeheartedly approve of.

[TheDemonLord]

You must agree then that it's ok to have a dump then throw your own shit at Police. You're a protest supporter.

What have the Police done to deserve this ?

And here Ladies and Gentleman, we have your Classic Strawman.

Just because I support the reason for the Protest, does not mean I support every single action done by every single protestor.

Or if this is too complex for you - let me Paraphrase your qoute:


The Nazis thought the Sky is Blue. You think the Sky is Blue

Why do you want to Gas the Jews?

Unlike the Left-wing Media who couldn't say a bad word about BLM even when buildings were on fire in the background. I'm happy to condemn things like this or the people crapping on the Cenotaph.

To answer the last question - the NZ Police have behaved very poorly in recent times, however I will give credit where credit is due - the fact they've told the Politicians that this is a Political issue and they will only keep the peace and not be used as a tool to silence protest is Commendable.

[pritch]

A few isolated incidents by various muppets not the crowd as a whole....





You have a funny way of reading. A few isolated incidents by various muppets does it. "Any group of three or more persons..."

[F5 Dave]

Well they sound nice. Maybe Jacinda should bake them some muffins and invite then in for tea?

Might be worth laying some plastic down first.

[TheDemonLord]

Well they sound nice. Maybe Jacinda should bake them some muffins and invite then in for tea?

Are you saying women should stay in the Kitchen?

How very sexist of you!

[onearmedbandit]

I lol'ed

https://twitter.com/FoxyLustyGrover/status/1495913712741654528?s=20&t=m8FX-L3k1YZeKdLLDgNrig

[R650R]

You have a funny way of reading. A few isolated incidents by various muppets does it. "Any group of three or more persons..."

I understand the language of legalese and that’s all that matters.... the important part about those three or more people is what others think they WILL do....

You may wish to recall your description of antifa members. That they don’t exist because it’s an idea without a central command or website..... they had branded t shirts. The Wellington group are by all accounts a random bunch of misfits with no common ground or leadership. Be pretty hard to prosecute that.....

[R650R]

Where’s all the BLM after that elderly Maori gentleman got brutally dragged out of his car while following his GPS back to camp this morning????

All joking aside it seems the feral element is losing patience. The funny thing is that protest will be riddled with lefty Karen types that will dob each other in. Soon they will consume themselves just like the CHAZ/CHOP compound in America did.

[pritch]

I lol'ed

https://twitter.com/FoxyLustyGrover/status/1495913712741654528?s=20&t=m8FX-L3k1YZeKdLLDgNrig

There was a bit more to that exchange, Billy suggested they should have passes to access the canteen - if they do the work. Then he moved to the bit about choice.

He's so very close but he still doesn't get it.

[pritch]

I understand the language of legalese and that’s all that matters....

I have never come across anybody less able to understand "legalese".

To give you an example, you have stated that the important word in the Crimes Act definition of unlawful assembly is the word "will". It's not, it's the word "fear". Persons in the neighbourhood only need to fear that the assemlby will cause violence. There doesn't actually need to be any violence at all. Just the fear of it.

So much for your understanding of legalese.

[pritch]

Meanwhile in Canada, the first of the Yanks who went north in support of the convoy has appeared in court and claimed that his First Amendment rights had been breached. That would be the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States Of America - but he's in Canada.

Others were claiming their arrests were invalid because they had not been read their Miranda rights. "You have the right to remain silent" etc.

It hasn't occurred to these geniuses that as soon as they cross the border, US law ceases to apply. They are now subject to Canadian law which is, funny enough, not the same as US law.

[husaberg]

out of link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMJTksxacAAcimB?format=jpg&name=large

[Stylo]

out of link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMJTksxacAAcimB?format=jpg&name=large

Saw that this morning, excellent.

[sidecar bob]

Where’s all the BLM after that elderly Maori gentleman got brutally dragged out of his car while following his GPS back to camp this morning????
.

He was traveling the wrong way down a one way street. GPS don't do that.
if he had tried that in the US he would have been rightfully shot.
You may be able to sell that bullshit story to your shit throwing chums.
Good try.

[sidecar bob]

Apparently the shit throwers and troublemakers are imposters from the govt that have infiltrated the protestors in order to make them look bad.
Fuckin drug addled morons, it's never their fault is it.

[TheDemonLord]

out of link

Shall I bring up the history of Left Wing Anti-semitism? And I'm not talking about Fringes, I'm talking the Labour party in the UK, Ilhan Omar, BLM thought leaders/Critical Race Theoriests etc.
Shall I bring up BLMs history of Death Threats and that actual murders that happened thereafter?
Shall I bring up the toppling of Statues, the ridiculing of Sir Winston Churchill (y'know - the man that opposed Hitler when everyone else wouldn't)
Shall I bring up George Sorros? You know that I almost never invoke his name but when his organization is bailing out people who attempted a Political Assassination

And yet - those protests were said to be 'Mostly Peaceful', World leaders came out in support, genuflected in deference etc.

It's one rule for the Approved protests, but another for the unapproved protests.

[Stylo]

He was traveling the wrong way down a one way street. GPS don't do that.
if he had tried that in the US he would have been rightfully shot.
You may be able to sell that bullshit story to your shit throwing chums.
Good try.

GPS don't drive the car, the driver sitting behind the wheel does, you're right. Hope that stupid cunt get's what coming.

Get rid of these self defecating shit throwing scum that are occupying the Parliament grounds. Fucking sub humans. I'm angry at these Anti-New Zealanders.

Why ? I have a boy up there about to start his first year at Uni. He's been threatened too for wearing a mask and only been there three days. He's as scared as you would be at his age. Just saying.

[R650R]

He was traveling the wrong way down a one way street. GPS don't do that.
if he had tried that in the US he would have been rightfully shot.
You may be able to sell that bullshit story to your shit throwing chums.
Good try.

The GPS was an expression of my inner far side style sense of humour.... trying to highlight the majority of people that are for and against this protest would have kicked off a riot (sorry peaceful store burning and looting session) if this had occurred around the BLM times....

Not my chums I’m just here for the popcorn

[onearmedbandit]

Posts containing excessive abusive language and ones related to those posts have have been removed from here, I will have no hesitation in closing this thread if they persist.

[Stylo]

The GPS was an expression of my inner far side style sense of humour.... trying to highlight the majority of people that are for and against this protest would have kicked off a riot (sorry peaceful store burning and looting session) if this had occurred around the BLM times....

Not my chums I’m just here for the popcorn


See you're a Trump supporter. That makes sense.

Can't argue with stupid. I don't do stupid. I debate with clever people.

Go Donald, nevertheless. Oh dear......

[mulletman]

Basset , Brash & Hide

Protesters

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/the-protestors-have-won

[mashman]

Basset , Brash & Hide

Protesters

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/the-protestors-have-won

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." - Gandhi. The last bit still waiting for enough people in general to swing that balance. Could be a while,coz the more the pro-mandaters scream for death jabs, the more people begin to see the shit throwers as the more civilised.

[1/32 man]

I never liked Russell Coutts anyway...

[jellywrestler]

Basset , Brash & Hide

Protesters

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/the-protestors-have-won

so why didn't this protest occur when the mandates came in, or when people started to lose their jobs if they were genuine? Why did it have to wait till they saw truckers do it in canada, and copy that?
Why are all the vidoes that they leak out that allegedly show police brutatlity never show the minute of two leading up to that point so we can make a for judgement ourselves?
Surely if this lot represent many new zealanders, or the majority of them, there would have been other sizeable protests throughout the country?

[TheDemonLord]

so why didn't this protest occur when the mandates came in, or when people started to lose their jobs if they were genuine? Why did it have to wait till they saw truckers do it in canada, and copy that?

I mean, I've been quite vocal about my opposition to Mandates from Day 1...

However, to answer your question seriously - it's a multi-faceted answer

1: As time has elapsed, more and more there is solid scientific data confirming that Omicron is on par with the Flu. Part of the pragmatic justification (not the Moral one, there is no Moral justification for discrimination), was that the measures would stop large numbers of people dying.

2: As time has elapsed, the justification of why you would only allow Vaccinated people in a certain area (which was to stop or slow the spread of the disease) has shown to be bullshit. Like I made the point months ago - the Vaccination after about 3 months only reduces the chance of you passing on the disease (compared to someone who is unvaccinated) by 20% - The pragmatic justification from that sense also has gone.

3: People were disillusioned at how they could make the Government listen (since this Government has shown it doesn't, repeatedly) - then along came some Glorious Bacon eating, Maple Syrup Drinking Canucks and their CanTrucks and showed the world that actually you can very quickly remind the Government that it is 'We, the People' who wield ultimate executive power.

I think I got my first leaflet from the pro-freedom group way back in December and there had been numerous small-scale protests leading up to it (with no media coverage of course).

The Canadians showed us there is a way and so people said 'well, that seems to work - let's do that' and so it snowballed.


Why are all the vidoes that they leak out that allegedly show police brutatlity never show the minute of two leading up to that point so we can make a for judgement ourselves?

Look, I'm as skeptical of the claim of Police Brutality as much as the next guy, in Canada for example, we've got quite a few instances of 'Police Brutality' where the Police flat-out lied (the Old Lady and her Walker getting trampled by a horse, for the Canadian Police to claim 'someone threw a bike at the horse') - the other issue is that the Protest is not officially sanctioned. By that I mean it doesn't have the same endorsement as the i


Surely if this lot represent many new zealanders, or the majority of them, there would have been other sizeable protests throughout the country?

There have been. They just haven't been reported on. I said at the start that to-date, the turnout for the passing of the Freedom Convoy where I live was larger than the Farmers Protest (which was pretty big).

Most people aren't all that keen on Protesting and most also have a healthy skepticism of any protest or protestor: 'Haven't they got better things to do, like go to work like the rest of us?'

But if you were to also ask most Kiwis whether they felt it was right to turn away someone from a business, based on their beliefs - they'd say no.

[jellywrestler]

There have been. They just haven't been reported on. I said at the start that to-date, the turnout for the passing of the Freedom Convoy where I live was larger than the Farmers Protest (which was pretty big).

Most people aren't all that keen on Protesting and most also have a healthy skepticism of any protest or protestor: 'Haven't they got better things to do, like go to work like the rest of us?'

But if you were to also ask most Kiwis whether they felt it was right to turn away someone from a business, based on their beliefs - they'd say no.

haven't been reported on? have you heard of social media, there were a few on the roundabout at carterton, a few in a reasonable sized rural town, there will always be support for things, but it really seems so small in real life. The BLM march to parilament was many times this, and what was that all about.?
Social media can drum up a storm, but 'people aren't keen on protesting' hardly explains the tiny numbers

[jellywrestler]

42 police in 10000 lost their jobs it said on the project last week, that's 0.42%. ok, so how many of these were anti mandate and how many antivax and how many medically didn't want it?
There's an expected requirement of intelligence to join the police for a start, lets say a third of these were in each camp then that that's about 1.5 in a thousand anti mandate, that's hardly representitive of the country is it?

[TheDemonLord]

haven't been reported on? have you heard of social media, there were a few on the roundabout at carterton, a few in a reasonable sized rural town, there will always be support for things, but it really seems so small in real life.

Sure - but we've seen time and time again News reporting on protests whereby if it's an approved protest, the numbers are puffed up, it's described positively 'Mostly peaceful' (that quote will never get old), whereas if it's not an approved protest, it's 'just a few indviduals, no clear goals, racists, sexists blah blah blah'.

But I want to focus on your comment about a few in Carterton, What other protests in recent times generated a turnout in Caterton? I'm guessing the Farmers protest - what else?


The BLM march to parilament was many times this, and what was that all about.?

I don't doubt that - seeing as it's very easy for someone living in Wellington, who shares the left-wing metropolitan Mindset to take a little stroll for a day, whereas to come from another part of the country is a big ask


Social media can drum up a storm, but 'people aren't keen on protesting' hardly explains the tiny numbers

It's more a case of who are the type of people that support it - take me for example, I've got a full time job (I could work remotely) but I also have Kids who go to School (and I've got reasonably strong principles against involving children in any protest action, including protests I agree with) - Some have called me out for not being down there - and yeah, they've got a pretty good point.

I'm not a University Student living down the road from the Beehive that can just pack everything up and go protest.

The group of people who I think the cause for the protest has most support from (Libertarian centre-right types) are generally not ones to protest in the first place and they often have other commitments.

[jellywrestler]

But I want to focus on your comment about a few in Carterton, What other protests in recent times generated a turnout in Caterton? I'm guessing the Farmers protest - what else?


.

i don't know, but whatever it is a few people on a roundabout don't represent a majority nor even a decent number. The farmers protest was very very short, this has dominated the news for a couple of weeks and everyone has an opinion, yet again, just a bit more than a handful care enough to appear. ???

[jellywrestler]

I don't doubt that - seeing as it's very easy for someone living in Wellington, who shares the left-wing metropolitan Mindset to take a little stroll for a day, whereas to come from another part of the country is a big ask




so where's the wellingtonians then, why isn't the place jam packed then? Just what percentage of our country actually do support what is going on there? Seems like sweet fuck all really.
Russel Coutts and a singer from a band turn up, wow, what about all the other 'influential people' then, like the rest of his crew or the rest of the band, or indeed anyone else from a band or a sport, any sport????
I support the right to protest, but right here there seems to be a very very tiny minority of our country causing a lot of grief.
Might start an on line petition for something, dunno what though, any ideas?

[FJRider]

For the record, I Am not jabbed.



Perhaps you should be.

It's in your best interest ... really.


Just saying ...

[R650R]

so why didn't this protest occur when the mandates came in, or when people started to lose their jobs if they were genuine? Why did it have to wait till they saw truckers do it in canada, and copy that?
Why are all the vidoes that they leak out that allegedly show police brutatlity never show the minute of two leading up to that point so we can make a for judgement ourselves?
Surely if this lot represent many new zealanders, or the majority of them, there would have been other sizeable protests throughout the country?

Because it was done in piecemeal fashion just like other erosions of peoples rights in last 50 years itÂ’s the old frog boiling in pot principle.
First we were told itÂ’s just for two weeks to eliminate the virus....
Then oh just a short lockdown to flatten the curve.
No we wonÂ’t force people to wear masks or scan...
New minnit you have to wear a mask to get food
You have to scan everywhere
No we wonÂ’t force the vaccine
Slowly more vocations added to mandatory list
Then you canÂ’t get a haircut, dine out or go to pub without vax
All brought in as death rates dropped I might add....

Now just imagine if they had done this all at once?

Most of us are old enough to remember the freedom of the 80Â’s...
Imagine if all at once the govt of the day had said we are implementing....
4K speed tolerance all year
Drink drive checkpoints anytime anywhere
Cancelling gun licence and make youÂ’ve reapply
Must carry driver licence
Ban fireworks
You canÂ’t build shed without council permission etc
You canÂ’t call anyone a fag, gay or handicapped etc
No burnouts
Instant licence loss for 40k over limit
$500 to register a motorbike
Reapply for your lifetime car and gun licence every ten years
Ban fireplaces

I know thereÂ’s more...,


Remember the tooth fairy is the single source of truth so the state sponsored media welfare bludgers arenÂ’t about to publish unpopular public opinion so a picture of widespread acceptance was fostered. Slowly the cracks began to appear and even fluff news published various pieces critical of govt policy that didnÂ’t make sense. ThereÂ’s so much uncertainty and emotion people are reluctant to voice contrary opinions. From day one in my circles itÂ’s been prob a 50/50 split as to whether itÂ’s something to fear or just a bad flu.... as time goes by people reflect on their own reality of whatÂ’s happening around them bs what the govt and media said was going to happen...


https://youtu.be/SsvYQKcX_GY

[jellywrestler]

Because it was done in piecemeal fashion just like other erosions of peoples rights in last 50 years itÂ’s the old frog boiling in pot principle.
First we were told itÂ’s just for two weeks to eliminate the virus....
Then oh just a short lockdown to flatten the curve.
No we wonÂ’t force people to wear masks or scan...
New minnit you have to wear a mask to get food
You have to scan everywhere
No we wonÂ’t force the vaccine
Slowly more vocations added to mandatory list
Then you canÂ’t get a haircut, dine out or go to pub without vax
All brought in as death rates dropped I might add....

Now just imagine if they had done this all at once?

Most of us are old enough to remember the freedom of the 80Â’s...
Imagine if all at once the govt of the day had said we are implementing....
4K speed tolerance all year
Drink drive checkpoints anytime anywhere
Cancelling gun licence and make youÂ’ve reapply
Must carry driver licence
Ban fireworks
You canÂ’t build shed without council permission etc
You canÂ’t call anyone a fag, gay or handicapped etc
No burnouts
Instant licence loss for 40k over limit
$500 to register a motorbike
Reapply for your lifetime car and gun licence every ten years
Ban fireplaces

I know thereÂ’s more...,


Remember the tooth fairy is the single source of truth so the state sponsored media welfare bludgers aren’t about to publish unpopular public opinion so a picture of widespread acceptance was fostered. Slowly the cracks began to appear and even fluff news published various pieces critical of govt policy that didn’t make sense. There’s so much uncertainty and emotion people are reluctant to voice contrary opinions. From day one in my circles itÂ’s been prob a 50/50 split as to whether it’s something to fear or just a bad flu.... as time goes by people reflect on their own reality of what’s happening around them bs what the govt and media said was going to happen...



so it's not about these mandates now it's about drink drive checkpoints? I see your point, they want anarchy I think

[TheDemonLord]

i don't know, but whatever it is a few people on a roundabout don't represent a majority nor even a decent number. The farmers protest was very very short, this has dominated the news for a couple of weeks and everyone has an opinion, yet again, just a bit more than a handful care enough to appear. ???

My point is that the protestors aren't limited to just Auckland and Wellington.

100 people showing up to protest in Auckland is a big nothing burger.

10 people showing up to protest in Carterton shows that the Protest has much further reach and support.



so where's the wellingtonians then, why isn't the place jam packed then?
Just what percentage of our country actually do support what is going on there? Seems like sweet fuck all really.
Russel Coutts and a singer from a band turn up, wow, what about all the other 'influential people' then, like the rest of his crew or the rest of the band, or indeed anyone else from a band or a sport, any sport????

Remember what I said about 'approved' left wing protests? This is the difference. You can support a Communist racial Supremecy group (BLM) and have all the corporate sponsors, media etc. fawning over you, but anyone who supports an unapproved protest would have their livelihood ripped away.

In terms of percentage, depending on who you ask (and what question you ask) - the support for the Protestors is around 10-30%.

I would put the general feeling as to being over the Covid restrictions (Tracer App, Vaccine passport) at around 50% - the reason I say that is if you look at the public NZ Tracer data - back in September, the number of Scans went from ~500,000 to around 2-3 Million Daily. Bearing in mind, most people want to be law abiding - so if the rules suddenly change that you *have* to scan, most people did.

Those rules are still in place, but we've gone from a peak in December to over 3 Million daily scans, to around 1.6-1.8 million daily scans.

That's a drop of Half, amongst the group that generally wants to be Law-Abiding. If you factor into that the 500,000 scans or so that are from people who would (regardless of the rules) always scan in - e.g. a baseline group, you go from 2.5 million scans (that is people who otherwise wouldn't bother to scan) down to 1.1 - 1.3 million scans.


I support the right to protest, but right here there seems to be a very very tiny minority of our country causing a lot of grief.
Might start an on line petition for something, dunno what though, any ideas?

I remember a petition about the Semi-Auto Ban that was completely ignored. It's causing a lot of Grief, yes - but for whom? It's the same issue in Canada - The PM either has to backtrack on all the fear mongering (and look weak) or tried to ignore/clamp down on the protest and looking increasingly tyrannical.

It's a loose/loose situation for the Government - and I'm 100% here for it.

[FJRider]

Whether I'm a total Fuckwit or not has no bearing on the fact that both of you cannot be correct ...

So ... you admit it (using your logic) .... and Of course not. It's usually just me that's correct.


and since you both use the same evidence to support your statements - the most likely outcome is that you are both wrong.

Most likely ... means possibly. Or NOT.

Those most likely to win ... often don't.

Go figure.


It's called a hypothetical scenario for a reason... but fortunately you then said this

A very nicely and neatly articulated belief in Bodily Autonomy. As you said, nothing goes into your body that you don't have a damn good reason for.

I got a got a knife in me once from a dude that wanted my wallet. I returned the favour ... and gave it back.

Sometimes ... the reasons aren't good.


The 'anti-vaxxers', the Anti-Mandate folks, the pro-freedom group - they all entirely agree that nothing should go in THEIR bodies that THEY don't have a damn good reason for.

Their personal choice. What they failed to consider ... was the restrictions that would then (sooner or later) be placed on their activities.

They ALL were all warned well in advance of the restrictions being put in place.

And they are not being carted off to "Health Camps" in railway cattle wagons for their jabs.


That statement proves the entire point I was making.

You believe you have a right to Bodily Autonomy, as evidenced by that one statement, the protestors believe they have a right to it to.

As above ... there are exceptions to the rule. Shit happens now and then. The one person mentioned above with the sharp object ... was NOT a (New Zealand) Government employee.

New Zealand Government employees don't stick things in you without your permission. Unless you have been declared legally unfit to make those decisions.

Then ... suck it up sunshine ...


Exactly, you agreed, I agreed - I agreed of my own volition, without any fiat of compulsion or force. That's the standard that I expect. Anything else is Tyranny.

Then enjoy all the freedoms the un-vaxxed aren't allowed to enjoy.


But you are not compelled to listen or to read them. You choose to.

If for no other reason ... than it gives me a laugh. Poking fun at you is almost a hobby. On my work week ... my movements are greatly restricted due to my work location. And not much on TV after work hours.


Except all that science stuff and data stuff and the opinion of the person that discovered it and reality.

All I've seen are claims ... STUFF was never that reliable ... news wise.


Sure, I remember Lord Haw Haw was hung - however his mere existence proves that at one point in time Journalists were willing, even in wartime, to give contrary opinion.

A wartime radio announcer would hardly be considered a journalist ... and ... There were quite a number of Radio announcers in Germany ... that were known and referred to as as "Lord Haw Haw".

Interesting reading here ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Haw-Haw


A "William Joyce" was captured by British forces in northern Germany just as the war ended. Tried and eventually hanged for treason on 3 January 1946. Joyce's defense team was appointed by the court (A fair trial .. ?? ) and argued that as an American citizen and naturalized German ... Joyce could not be convicted of treason against the British Crown. However ... the prosecution successfully argued that ... since he had lied about his nationality to obtain a British passport and voted in Britain ... Joyce owed allegiance to the king.

All said and done ... hardly justice at all ... let alone GUILT. Especially when there was more than ONE Lord Haw Haw.

[TheDemonLord]

So ... you admit it (using your logic) .... and Of course not. It's usually just me that's correct.

Most likely ... means possibly. Or NOT.

Those most likely to win ... often don't.

Go figure.

I admit nothing, At this point - I'm enjoying the Irony more than anything.


I got a got a knife in me once from a dude that wanted my wallet. I returned the favour ... and gave it back.

Sometimes ... the reasons aren't good.

Did you consider it wrong a violation of something when it happened?


Their personal choice. What they failed to consider ... was the restrictions that would then (sooner or later) be placed on their activities.

They ALL were all warned well in advance of the restrictions being put in place.

And they are not being carted off to "Health Camps" in railway cattle wagons for their jabs.

When there's an element of Compulsion (that is restricting fundamental freedoms and requiring discrimination), then it's no longer a personal Choice.

I see no difference between discriminating using the force of Government and the Thief in your scenario - both used an element of Coercion to try and do something they had no right to do. The only difference is that you fought off the Attacker, the people protesting are using Force to fight off theirs.



As above ... there are exceptions to the rule. Shit happens now and then. The one person mentioned above with the sharp object ... was NOT a (New Zealand) Government employee.

New Zealand Government employees don't stick things in you without your permission. Unless you have been declared legally unfit to make those decisions.

Then ... suck it up sunshine ...

Yes, but he did violate your Bodily Autonomy and based on that, you felt you had some moral justification to defend yourself.

the moment the Government stuck a fine on not checking the Vaccine Pass, they are using Force. If you don't pay the Fine, what happens? They Garnish your income. If you have no Income, what happens? They take your stuff. If you try to fight back or you have nothing to take, you get thrown in Jail.

Those are all elements of Force.


Then enjoy all the freedoms the un-vaxxed aren't allowed to enjoy.

To do so would violate my Moral Code. To get a Vaccine Pass would be to give my tacit approval that discrimination against a group of people, regardless of my personal opinion of them, is right and justified.

That is something I cannot and will not do. If it means I have to suffer, so be it - my conscious is clean.


If for no other reason ... than it gives me a laugh. Poking fun at you is almost a hobby. On my work week ... my movements are greatly restricted due to my work location. And not much on TV after work hours.

Glad to be of service, FWIW - despite the fact you lost any moral high ground in the last post when you agreed that Bodily Autonomy was a thing that you believed in, you still make some interesting points.



All I've seen are claims ... STUFF was never that reliable ... news wise.

STUFF is little more than an opinion Blog site, I rarely use it for actual news, if ever.


A wartime radio announcer would hardly be considered a journalist ... and ... There were quite a number of Radio announcers in Germany ... that were known and referred to as as "Lord Haw Haw".

Interesting reading here ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Haw-Haw

A "William Joyce" was captured by British forces in northern Germany just as the war ended. Tried and eventually hanged for treason on 3 January 1946. Joyce's defense team was appointed by the court (A fair trial .. ?? ) and argued that as an American citizen and naturalized German ... Joyce could not be convicted of treason against the British Crown. However ... the prosecution successfully argued that ... since he had lied about his nationality to obtain a British passport and voted in Britain ... Joyce owed allegiance to the king.

All said and done ... hardly justice at all ... let alone GUILT. Especially when there was more than ONE Lord Haw Haw.

It's definitely an interesting Read - but the point remains - Announcer/Journalist - plenty of people willing to buck the trend.

[mashman]

Perhaps you should be.

It's in your best interest ... really.

Just saying ...

Thanks for the concern.

Not according to a body of evidence that is being ignored. I'll wait.

[FJRider]

I admit nothing, At this point

Personal choice. Fair enough.


Did you consider it wrong a violation of something when it happened?

I could have picked better parts of town to eat. He obviously thought it was a perfectly normal thing to do.

What some refer to as normal ... others may not. Does that make it right if YOU think it is normal .. ??

If I think something is normal and ok ... and you don't ... Who is wrong .. ??


When there's an element of Compulsion (that is restricting fundamental freedoms and requiring discrimination), then it's no longer a personal Choice.

If YOU believe you have been restricted in your fundamental freedoms ... Fight it. Argue it in Court. As is your right.

But in times of a national Pandemic ... you might expect some restrictions. To not expect them is stupid. To not WANT them is normal.


I see no difference between discriminating using the force of Government and the Thief in your scenario - both used an element of Coercion to try and do something they had no right to do. The only difference is that you fought off the Attacker, the people protesting are using Force to fight off theirs.

What if ... Hypothetically ... HE believed he DID have the right ... ?? As you believe YOU have the right to speak and act as you do .. ??


Yes, but he did violate your Bodily Autonomy and based on that, you felt you had some moral justification to defend yourself.

I don't like leaking the red stuff. That pisses me off. I'm not that big ... so I haven't got much to start with.


Just saying ...


the moment the Government stuck a fine on not checking the Vaccine Pass, they are using Force. If you don't pay the Fine, what happens? They Garnish your income. If you have no Income, what happens? They take your stuff. If you try to fight back or you have nothing to take, you get thrown in Jail.

Bullshit. There are rules and there is reality. Those places I went to today (I'm at home this week) ... that I haven't visited previously ... checked my vaccine passport ... or just asked to see it. Those places I went that knew me didn't. Are either businesses (or members of the public) being charged by Police in large numbers ... for not following the Covid rules ... ?? If not ... then it cannot be described as FORCE.

Only to those that continue to disregard the rules ... openly refusing to obey Police requests on multiple occasions ... will the threat of arrest be considered ... or made ... and as a last resort ... carried out.

Reality ... when I left all the places ... they ALL knew I had one.


Those are all elements of Force.

Reality of force ... is when the handcuffs go on with every occasion of rule breaking. Is THAT actually happening .. ??


To do so would violate my Moral Code. To get a Vaccine Pass would be to give my tacit approval that discrimination against a group of people, regardless of my personal opinion of them, is right and justified.

WHY GET THE JABS THEN ... ??


That is something I cannot and will not do. If it means I have to suffer, so be it - my conscious is clean.

I've found that peoples sense of their moral code changes ... when they believe their life is actually severely at risk.

Just saying ...


Glad to be of service, FWIW - despite the fact you lost any moral high ground in the last post when you agreed that Bodily Autonomy was a thing that you believed in, you still make some interesting points.

You forget ... I'm ex Army. Simple fact ... we were trained to kill people.

Some might say we lacked morals to be able to do so ... I disagree. Hypothetically even ... I might have been sent to kill on your behalf.

Do you feel better ... or worse now.



It's definitely an interesting Read - but the point remains - Announcer/Journalist - plenty of people willing to buck the trend.

It wasn't a "Trend" ... they were doing ... it was just part of their War effort. And usually reporting false news.


There is a word for that ... it's called propaganda. Is that a hanging offense ... ??


You might (or might not) be familiar with the term ... but it certainly differs from what most regard as ... "Actual News".

[FJRider]

Thanks for the concern.

Not according to a body of evidence that is being ignored. I'll wait.

No problem. It's probably being ignored for a reason.


And probably due to bodies being buried.


Where are the bodies of evidence buried ... ??



And ... Waiting is your right.




Unless you're wrong.

[Stylo]

Thanks for the concern.

Not according to a body of evidence that is being ignored. I'll wait.

Your body of evidence source. Present it please. Let me guess, Facebook ?

Show me please. Not Social media . I want truth instead. Science and facts. That means no Donald Trump.

Your body of evidence you say is being ignored ? Post it now.

Look forward to it, waiting now.

[husaberg]

Your body of evidence source. Present it please. Let me guess, Facebook ?

Show me please. Not Social media . I want truth instead. Science and facts. That means no Donald Trump.

Your body of evidence you say is being ignored ? Post it now.

Look forward to it, waiting now.

All you need to know about Gordons latest meSSiah

from months ago he just chooses to ignore the facts.
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/188175-The-journey-that-COVID-19-will-take-us-on?p=1131191987#post1131191987


https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/188175-The-journey-that-COVID-19-will-take-us-on?p=1131191221#post1131191221


What there are using is made up crap......
You are as usual swallowing it land lapping it all up ike the Coprophiliac you are.



You're certainly not missing much dave, Mashies latest Messiah is a quack, who does his own covid testing and "invented" a 100% effective in his own words cure for covid.

EL CENTRO — The owner of a local walk-in clinic says his practice was misrepresented in a recent article questioning its testing methods and billing for COVID-19.

Wow, let's see his clinic is not exactly as big nor as grand as is made out either, it's a hole-in-the-wall clinic. that opened in 2018


https://www.thedesertreview.com/business/all-valley-urgent-care-officially-opens-the-doors/article_b7548128-2b53-11e8-86b9-c7166af8522e.html
Situated between a lowes and a Costco Down by a Wendy's, a Target, and a Taco Bell.
https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/ivpressonline.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/c/d9/cd94225c-aad8-11ea-a86e-33c6deaedb8f/5ee06ba083532.image.jpg

349693349715

But he's mashy's new idol as he by his own claims which are of course backed up by zero trial results is he 100% cures covid 100% of the time.
but he has no trial results to back it other than his own claims which its seems are based on his own results and his own tests with no peer reviews.
He uses his own test not a recognized test its a Xray which he charges for then performs a diagnosis that no one else ican n the medical profession from an xray and the test that is no to be used as atest to detect covid. as it can tell between someone with the disease or has been simply exposed to it or has antibodies or has been vacvinated.
He then treats the patients he has "diagnosed" with a drug the medical profession has trailed and found not to work at all. plus other expensive vitamins
A drug that Trump took before he actually had covid.





What this numpty does is use a test that's actually an antibody test not recommended to test for the presence of covid then he decided he could use an Xray.

By his own words he said these people were not even sick enough to warrant testing by the medical profession


this is what the CDC and the labs say about the test he uses
Antibody testing does not replace virologic testing and should not be used to establish the presence or absence of acute SARS-CoV-2 infection.
Antibody tests yielding qualitative or semi-quantitative results have been issued EUAs; there currently is no recognized public health or clinical indication for preferential use of semi-quantitative tests.
Antibody testing is not currently recommended to assess for immunity to SARS-CoV-2 following COVID-19 vaccination, to assess the need for vaccination in an unvaccinated person, or to determine the need to quarantine after a close contact with someone who has COVID-19. Some antibody tests will not detect the antibodies generated by COVID-19 vaccines. Because these vaccines induce antibodies to specific viral protein targets, post-vaccination antibody test results will be negative in persons without history of previous infection, if the test used does not detect antibodies induced by the vaccine.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/lab/resources/antibody-tests-guidelines.html

[pete376403]

News reports a couple of protesters (which in all probability means a whole lot more, as yet untested) have tested positive for C19 - wonder how they feel about having a virus that they claim does not exist. As they are unlikely to be vaccinated they may well get the serious version, in which case they will expect to go to hospital for treatment. This is where the Singapore approach would be warranted.

[mashman]

Your body of evidence source. Present it please. Let me guess, Facebook ?

Show me please. Not Social media . I want truth instead. Science and facts. That means no Donald Trump.

Your body of evidence you say is being ignored ? Post it now.

Look forward to it, waiting now.

Start with this: "Pathophysiological Basis and Rationale for Early Outpatient Treatment of SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) Infection". And then follow all of the work that came after it.

I guarantee that you won't. You're not smart enough to understand it.

[mashman]

No problem. It's probably being ignored for a reason.

And probably due to bodies being buried.

Where are the bodies of evidence buried ... ??

And ... Waiting is your right.

Unless you're wrong.

The best of subjectively best of reasons.

I think waiting when there's a 99.x% chance of survival when catching it is a pretty rational position to take. It would seem that you sane people think, I mean, that the government thinks on your behalf that that's not enough.

[mashman]

Funny, just saw a protest video of a cop spraying pepper spray, with a masked and shielded cop then turning around and seeking medical attention. Let the shit slinging begin. Anyone got a video of the shit slinging incident that shows a different angle? So far it looks like a cop pepper spraying his colleagues and then allowing lies to be spread to cover his arse. Unless, as I said, anyone has a video that shows the incident from another angle?

[husaberg]

Start with this: "Pathophysiological Basis and Rationale for Early Outpatient Treatment of SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) Infection". And then follow all of the work that came after it.

I guarantee that you won't. You're not smart enough to understand it.

Oh tell us more
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/958916
https://factcheck.afp.com/us-cardiologist-makes-false-claims-about-covid-19-vaccination
https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-coronavirus-reinfection-idUSL1N2TC0PH
https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/93936


Baylor Gets Restraining Order Against COVID Vaccine Skeptic Doc
September 16, 2021
The largest nonprofit health system in Texas has secured a temporary restraining order against cardiologist Peter A. McCullough, MD, MPH, a COVID-19 vaccine skeptic who allegedly continued to claim an affiliation with Baylor


aylor Scott & White Health sued former employee and cardiologist Peter McCullough, MD, last week, alleging that he illegitimately affiliated himself with its facilities when promoting controversial views about COVID-19.

Nearly 6 months after McCullough's employment had ended, he continued to use his former professional titles -- such as "vice chief of internal medicine at Baylor University Medical Center" -- in media interviews in which he spread his opinions about the pandemic, the lawsuit alleged.


Doctor fired for spreading COVID misinformation


McCullough gave an interview in April 2021 to The New American, the magazine of the right-wing John Birch Society, in which he advanced anti-vaccination messaging, including falsely claiming tens of thousands of fatalities attributed to the COVID-19 vaccines


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwoRsj7AE7A

[TheDemonLord]

I could have picked better parts of town to eat. He obviously thought it was a perfectly normal thing to do.

What some refer to as normal ... others may not. Does that make it right if YOU think it is normal .. ??

If I think something is normal and ok ... and you don't ... Who is wrong .. ??

What if ... Hypothetically ... HE believed he DID have the right ... ?? As you believe YOU have the right to speak and act as you do .. ??

I don't like leaking the red stuff. That pisses me off. I'm not that big ... so I haven't got much to start with.

Just saying ...

"Your right to swing your fist stops where my nose begins"

I believe I have the right to speak and act, unto myself. That is, I can do whatever I want, right up until the point where what I want to do infringes on your rights. To that end - the person who stabbed you - whether he believed he had the right or not is irrelevant, his doing do infringes upon your right.

That understanding is the core basis of our Laws. Why is Theft a Crime? Because theft deprives someone else of their property.


If YOU believe you have been restricted in your fundamental freedoms ... Fight it. Argue it in Court. As is your right.
But in times of a national Pandemic ... you might expect some restrictions. To not expect them is stupid. To not WANT them is normal.

My rights are not up for negotiation. Regardless of what justification may or may not be presented. They are not granted by the Government nor can they be taken by the Government. The Government's only role in this is to protect them.

The protest is a manifestation of that ethos.


Bullshit. There are rules and there is reality. Those places I went to today (I'm at home this week) ... that I haven't visited previously ... checked my vaccine passport ... or just asked to see it. Those places I went that knew me didn't. Are either businesses (or members of the public) being charged by Police in large numbers ... for not following the Covid rules ... ?? If not ... then it cannot be described as FORCE.

Only to those that continue to disregard the rules ... openly refusing to obey Police requests on multiple occasions ... will the threat of arrest be considered ... or made ... and as a last resort ... carried out.

Reality ... when I left all the places ... they ALL knew I had one.

Which is it? Either the rules are enFORCED, or they are not. The Businesses that have been fined thousands of dollars for not wanting to Discriminate, Are they being held aloft and made examples of, to ensure compliance by the rest of the population?

If there is any sanction upon the individual by the Government for non-compliance, then it is Force. We like to dress it up in flowery language, to divorce the fact that a Fine is backed by the threat of Violence and the overbearing tyranny of the State - but that fundamental link cannot be severed.


Reality of force ... is when the handcuffs go on with every occasion of rule breaking. Is THAT actually happening .. ??

Nope, it happens much sooner then.


WHY GET THE JABS THEN ... ??

I've told you why previously - but here's the thing: Meditate on that.

Why would someone get vaccinated, but be opposed to a Vaccine Passport.

Perhaps there's some Ethic in there. Perhaps it's got something to do with a decision made freely without coercion vs a decision made under the penalty of sanctions.

Maybe... There's a very real and very distinct philosophical difference between those two.


I've found that peoples sense of their moral code changes ... when they believe their life is actually severely at risk.

Maybe for some. I've run across a State Highway 1 to check on a Drunk driver who had just crashed, I've helped stabilize a young man and make the vehicle safe after he had totalled a Power Pole (and we didn't know if the car was electrified).

To this point, when I've come across a situation where I could keep walking or keep driving or look the other direction vs stepping in and risking my life, I've always stepped in.


You forget ... I'm ex Army. Simple fact ... we were trained to kill people.

Some might say we lacked morals to be able to do so ... I disagree. Hypothetically even ... I might have been sent to kill on your behalf.

Do you feel better ... or worse now.

I never forget who here has served. And I feel exactly the same as I always have: It is better to be a Warrior, tending to your garden.


It wasn't a "Trend" ... they were doing ... it was just part of their War effort. And usually reporting false news.

There is a word for that ... it's called propaganda. Is that a hanging offense ... ??

You might (or might not) be familiar with the term ... but it certainly differs from what most regard as ... "Actual News".

Group A publishes their Propaganda, against Group B
Group B publishes their Propaganda, against Group A

The reader/listener/viewer gets to look at the evidence both sides presents and makes their own determination. Certainly in a War, there was some restrictions, but not as many as you might think. Case in point when the US Senator bragged about the Japanese not setting their Depth Charges correctly - that one bit of reporting cost upwards of 900 sailors.

In Britain, listening to Lord Haw Haw was discouraged but not illegal, Often people wanted to see things from the enemy perspective.

That was the reasonably noble tradition of Journalism, not perfect - but on the whole a lot more robust that what currently passes. The BBC is another great example - once considered the gold standard for impartiality, even into the 2000s, it's now just another Lefty mouthpiece, which is why increasingly people are not paying the licence fee and there are calls for the BBC to be scrapped.

And that only took 10-15 years.

[FJRider]

Start with this: "Pathophysiological Basis and Rationale for Early Outpatient Treatment of SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) Infection". And then follow all of the work that came after it.

I guarantee that you won't. You're not smart enough to understand it.

I'll give it a shot ... the LINK ...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7410805/


Principles of COVID-19 outpatient care include:

1) reduction of reinoculation.

We propose that fresh air could reduce reinoculation.

Because exhaled air in an infected person is considered (???) to be “loaded” with inoculum (a substance used for inoculation), each exhalation and inhalation is effectively reinoculation.

The thing is ... people don't just catch Covid from fresh air. They catch it from other people that DO have covid. People out in that same "Fresh Air" ... the same fresh air they want their freedom in.

Go figure.


2) combination antiviral therapy

A dual-combination of ribavirin and interferon-α has been the widely used regimen for the treatment of this disease in China.
Ribavirin is an antiviral medication that is used to treat chronic hepatitis C.

At the end of June 2020, Roche, the supplier of interferon alfa-2a (Roferon-A) stopped making this medicine globally.

The use of ribavirin with interferon or peginterferon for the treatment of hepatitis C is no longer recommended due to the poor efficacy and high rate of adverse effects with this regimen.

Alpha interferon in various formulations had been developed as therapy of several forms of cancer and viral infections, but its major use has been as therapy of chronic hepatitis C


Obviously ... a few seem to have not noticed that ... (as above) they STOPPED MAKING IT.

3) Immunomodulation

Thalidomide, lenalidomide, and pomalidomide. Thalidomide (Thalomid), lenalidomide (Revlimid), and pomalidomide (Pomalyst) are known as immunomodulating drugs (or IMiDs). These drugs can cause side effects such as drowsiness, fatigue, constipation, low blood cell counts, and neuropathy (painful nerve damage)

Any of those drugs (above) sound familiar ... ??

4) antiplatelet/antithrombotic therapy.

There are two classes of antithrombotic drugs: anticoagulants and antiplatelet drugs. Anticoagulants slow down clotting, thereby reducing fibrin formation and preventing clots from forming and growing. Antiplatelet agents prevent platelets from clumping and also prevent clots from forming and growing.

How does blood clotting changes affect a VIRAL infection .. ??

5) administration of oxygen, monitoring, and telemedicine.

Conclusion: study shows that home telemonitoring and oxygen administration can be safely applied in COVID-19 patients resulting in a high patient satisfaction and reduction in hospital stay and costs.

These are treatments for those WITH Covid. Nothing mentioned how it prevents an infection with Covid. Sounds like a horse/stable door scenario.

And ... every anti-vaxxer wants the freedom to travel ... and get the Virus.

Based on the above principals ... Treatment for the virus ... is better than a vaccine to prevent it infecting AND affecting you.




Apparently.





REALLY ... ???

I bet a few of those protesting in Wellington never knew they had Covid. One of the main claims of the protesters there was ... THEY didn't have Covid.

And here they were all along ... reinoculating themselves ... AND OTHERS. ALL in the name of THEIR FREEDOMS.

Yep ... Another ...


GO FIGURE ...


And here was I thinking ... Prevention is better than a cure.


Who knew ... ??? :scratch:

[mashman]

haven't been reported on? have you heard of social media, there were a few on the roundabout at carterton, a few in a reasonable sized rural town, there will always be support for things, but it really seems so small in real life. The BLM march to parilament was many times this, and what was that all about.?
Social media can drum up a storm, but 'people aren't keen on protesting' hardly explains the tiny numbers

Match report from a member of the logistics department. Can't show the video of the operation because some don't want to accidentally be identified for various reasons.

"Sometimes 2 to 3 times the people here feeding thousands a not a very good video, so thousands of people are donating food equipment water, you name it. It comes in at the entrance where a lot of the BBQing is done stored prepped and plated up, by people of all walks of life all races all denominations working like trojans 7 days up to 16 hrs a day. Many have been mandated out of their livelihood, have Vax injured friends or relatives and many now ostracised by society for not taking a jab that does not make them in anyway less infectious than those that have. Cars and Vans continually run back and fourth to parliament where there are food tents set up as you know. There are 80 year old ladies, nurses, doctors scientists ect,working here all voluntary disgusted at the unscientif immoral mandates and where these politicians and media are deceiving NZ into. It has been humbling working alongside soo many Real Kiwis all in unity from all walks the exact opposite of what is being portrayed by the media." - A good cunt!

People doing what they can while having to work for a living to pay for the ever increasing costs of life... the mandate and moronic decision making playing more than just their part.

[FJRider]

The best of subjectively best of reasons.

I think waiting when there's a 99.x% chance of survival when catching it is a pretty rational position to take. It would seem that you sane people think, I mean, that the government thinks on your behalf that that's not enough.

Tell that to the millions of dead world wide that have died as a result of catching a Covid variant. (About 5.91 million)

56 of those in NZ.

I'm sure the families of those 56 ... will be glad to hear of your predictions and claims ... :blank:


Yeah ... right.

[husaberg]

It would seem that you sane people think, I mean, that the government thinks on your behalf that that's not enough.

That same goverment you have tried twice to convince people you are smart enough to get into
But fell short by 100% of the required vote.:niceone:

[mashman]

I'll give it a shot ... the LINK ...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7410805/


Principles of COVID-19 outpatient care include:

1) reduction of reinoculation.

We propose that fresh air could reduce reinoculation.

Because exhaled air in an infected person is considered (???) to be “loaded” with inoculum (a substance used for inoculation), each exhalation and inhalation is effectively reinoculation.

The thing is ... people don't just catch Covid from fresh air. They catch it from other people that DO have covid. People out in that same "Fresh Air" ... the same fresh air they want their freedom in.

Go figure.


2) combination antiviral therapy

A dual-combination of ribavirin and interferon-α has been the widely used regimen for the treatment of this disease in China.
Ribavirin is an antiviral medication that is used to treat chronic hepatitis C.

At the end of June 2020, Roche, the supplier of interferon alfa-2a (Roferon-A) stopped making this medicine globally.

The use of ribavirin with interferon or peginterferon for the treatment of hepatitis C is no longer recommended due to the poor efficacy and high rate of adverse effects with this regimen.

Alpha interferon in various formulations had been developed as therapy of several forms of cancer and viral infections, but its major use has been as therapy of chronic hepatitis C


Obviously ... a few seem to have not noticed that ... (as above) they STOPPED MAKING IT.

3) Immunomodulation

Thalidomide, lenalidomide, and pomalidomide. Thalidomide (Thalomid), lenalidomide (Revlimid), and pomalidomide (Pomalyst) are known as immunomodulating drugs (or IMiDs). These drugs can cause side effects such as drowsiness, fatigue, constipation, low blood cell counts, and neuropathy (painful nerve damage)

Any of those drugs (above) sound familiar ... ??

4) antiplatelet/antithrombotic therapy.

There are two classes of antithrombotic drugs: anticoagulants and antiplatelet drugs. Anticoagulants slow down clotting, thereby reducing fibrin formation and preventing clots from forming and growing. Antiplatelet agents prevent platelets from clumping and also prevent clots from forming and growing.

How does blood clotting changes affect a VIRAL infection .. ??

5) administration of oxygen, monitoring, and telemedicine.

Conclusion: study shows that home telemonitoring and oxygen administration can be safely applied in COVID-19 patients resulting in a high patient satisfaction and reduction in hospital stay and costs.

Sounds like a horse/stable door scenario.

And ... every anti-vaxxer wants the freedom to travel ... and get the Virus.

Based on the above principals ... Treatment for the virus ... is better than a vaccine to prevent it infecting AND affecting you.




Apparently.





REALLY ... ???

I bet a few of those protesting in Wellington never knew they had Covid. One of the main claims of the protesters there was ... THEY didn't have Covid.

And here they were all along ... reinoculating themselves ... AND OTHERS. ALL in the name of THEIR FREEDOMS.

Yep ... Another ...


GO FIGURE ...


And here was I thinking ... Prevention is better than a cure.


Who knew ... ??? :scratch:


These are treatments for those WITH Covid. Nothing mentioned how it prevents an infection with Covid.

They were presenting in the field results i.e. people cured of Covid :killingme... you're not really keeping up are you.

Now go and read the rest of the information that answers those questions.

I think you'll find that the position of Mccullough et al, hmmmmmmm, there really is no point in me explaining what they have already explained only for you to tell me that they didn't explain that and that if they did explain that then the context that you dream up will negate the possibility that they can have ever explained things that way. They are not anti-vaxx. They see vaccination as the last step of a set of steps that need to be checked off before going anywhere near a vaccination. General principles of medicine I think they're called... you know, those pesky things that were thrown out of the window to bring you a jab that didn't match testing. Oh how QED is that... unless it doesn't suit your narrative.

Seriously, go and answer those questions yourself and stop rockin' the tdl vibe, they're all answered.

[mashman]

Tell that to the millions of dead world wide that have died as a result of catching a Covid variant. (About 5.91 million)

56 of those in NZ.

I'm sure the families of those 56 ... will be glad to hear of your predictions and claims ... :blank:


Yeah ... right.

I think you can shove that bit of projection up your well reamed ass.

[MD]

I want to give praise to those that are debating this thread against a few dickhead individuals that are so stupid and lacking in common sense and brain cells that it beggars belief. If some of these people grew a brain cell it would be bloody lonely. They define a new level of dumb. Oxford Dictionary may well one day use them as the definition of dumb. I don't care if a few idiots, losers, hippies and dole bludgers want to protest at Parliament and demand their selfish so called rights. The problem is in their world only three people exist; me, myself & I. It is their hypocrisy, selfishness and total lack of thought, kindness, courtesy and caring to others that pisses me off. And all the time they chant, freedom and love for all. The lying worthless pieces of shit don't mean 'all', all they care about is me, myself & I. They want to overthrow the government, but you can rest assured not the Welfare Dept that gives them money for being useless, parasitic members of society. That Dept is Ok because it suits me, myself & I.. Lets just list a few of their accomplishments; stealing rubber mats from a childrens playground, throwing human faeces at people, pissing and shitting into the storm waters polluting our beautiful harbour, desecrating our war memorial to those that really did fight for our freedom, kicking a school girl for wearing a mask, closing two schools from trying to educate our children, closing dozens of businesses from trying to survive in tough times and pay their employees dependent on the income and denying good citizens of their freedom of movement and safety. Hardly the stuff of sainthoods.

This thread should be terminated because you cannot argue/debate with stupid and the rest of us intelligent New Zealanders (95%) are doing the right thing- doing what makes sense and is best for ALL, not me, myself, I

[FJRider]

I believe I have the right to ...

That understanding is the core basis of our Laws. Why is Theft a Crime? Because theft deprives someone else of their property or rights.

Not if they infringe on MY RIGHTS.


My rights are not up for negotiation.

There will be no negotiation if you infringe on mine.


The protest is a manifestation of that ethos.

A manifestation of something ... hardly of any ethos though.


Which is it? Either the rules are enFORCED, or they are not. The few Businesses that have been fined thousands of dollars for not wanting to Discriminate, Are they being held aloft and made examples of, to ensure compliance by the rest of the population?

Are they ALL being charged ... ?? hardly FORCE if they are not ALL being charged.

Easier for the businesses to make money ... if they stay IN business.


If there is any sanction upon the individual by the Government for non-compliance, then it is Force. We like to dress it up in flowery language, to divorce the fact that a Fine is backed by the threat of Violence and the overbearing tyranny of the State - but that fundamental link cannot be severed.

Them's the rules though ... life can be tough.


Nope, it happens much sooner then.

Much sooner then ... ?? :scratch:


I've told you why previously

Why would someone get vaccinated, but be opposed to a Vaccine Passport.

Because being dead is unbecoming. And unhealthy.


Perhaps there's some Ethic in there.

Maybe...

The ethic that being above ground is better than the alternative.



Maybe for some. I've run across a State Highway 1 ...

I was referring to a situation when ... somebody might like you dead. Just because his watch is busted and yours looks like it's working ok.


It is better to be a Warrior, tending to your garden.

Fighting off the moths ... :shifty:


Group A publishes their Propaganda, against Group B
Group B publishes their Propaganda, against Group A


And you're ok with a guy getting hung for telling bullshit on the radio ... and that everybody (on both sides of the Channel) knew it was bullshit.

They should start that practice up again here in NZ.

Radio NZ lookout.


Certainly in a War

He was hung after the war ended.


In Britain, listening to Lord Haw Haw was discouraged but not illegal, Often people wanted to see things from the enemy perspective.

Monty Python had nothing on this guy. Most brits thought it of a sort of comedy program.


The BBC is another great example

The jury is still out ... on what it is a "Great Example" of ... I never was a fan of it.


Too many Pom's on it.

[Berries]

Can't show the video of the operation because some don't want to accidentally be identified for various reasons.
Yeah, I have video of Elvis at the KFC in Gore but can't show it for the same reason.

[FJRider]

I think you can shove that bit of projection up your well reamed ass.

It's not a prediction.


It is EXISTING and current figures.



Stay safe ...

[ellipsis]

...this is funny...so fucking funny...if it wasn't so sad, it would be even funnier...I hope you all have pointy sticks on hand and lots of tins of baked beans at the ready...:ar15:

:facepalm:

[mashman]

It's not a prediction.


It is EXISTING and current figures.



Stay safe ...

I wasn't meaning that kind of projection, because I wasn't skewing those figures in some way. Your projection was that I was... and you can shove that right up your ass... along with everything else you've chosen to project on my behalf.

Have you re-read the paper in context to answer you own questions yet? :shifty:

[TheDemonLord]

I want to give praise to those that are debating this thread against a few dickhead individuals that are so stupid and lacking in common sense and brain cells that it beggars belief. If some of these people grew a brain cell it would be bloody lonely. They define a new level of dumb. Oxford Dictionary may well one day use them as the definition of dumb. I don't care if a few idiots, losers, hippies and dole bludgers want to protest at Parliament and demand their selfish so called rights. The problem is in their world only three people exist; me, myself & I. It is their hypocrisy, selfishness and total lack of thought, kindness, courtesy and caring to others that pisses me off. And all the time they chant, freedom and love for all. The lying worthless pieces of shit don't mean 'all', all they care about is me, myself & I. They want to overthrow the government, but you can rest assured not the Welfare Dept that gives them money for being useless, parasitic members of society. That Dept is Ok because it suits me, myself & I.. Lets just list a few of their accomplishments; stealing rubber mats from a childrens playground, throwing human faeces at people, pissing and shitting into the storm waters polluting our beautiful harbour, desecrating our war memorial to those that really did fight for our freedom, kicking a school girl for wearing a mask, closing two schools from trying to educate our children, closing dozens of businesses from trying to survive in tough times and pay their employees dependent on the income and denying good citizens of their freedom of movement and safety. Hardly the stuff of sainthoods.

This thread should be terminated because you cannot argue/debate with stupid and the rest of us intelligent New Zealanders (95%) are doing the right thing- doing what makes sense and is best for ALL, not me, myself, I

What is society made up of?

Individuals.

If MY rights are protected, that also means YOUR rights are protected. So when I care about Me, Myself and I that means I'm also caring about you.

Ultimately, I want freedom of choice, without coercion. Get the Vaccine, don't get the vaccine - whatever you choose is your business, nothing to do with me. I want everyone to have that same choice. If they choose to be Idiots, Loosers, Hippies and Dole Bludgers, that's their choice.

But again I point out - The standard of behavior has been set, remember when TPPA protestors were blocking roads and Labour MPs were speaking at the gatherings? Perhaps if Labour had loudly condemned certain behavior when it was a Protest they supported, they might have a leg to stand on.

However what is good for the Goose is good for the Gander.

And bonus point: Did the Protestors actually force the businesses to shut down? or did the owners choose to close their businesses? And for the bonus comparision - who has forced more businesses to close? The Protestors or The Government?

[TheDemonLord]

Not if they infringe on MY RIGHTS.

There will be no negotiation if you infringe on mine.

Exactly. You have arrived at my position. Based on the British Liberal conceptions of Natural Rights and how they are limited in relation to one another. And from this conception:


A manifestation of something ... hardly of any ethos though.

You've just agreed with the Protestors position: "There will be no negotiation if you infringe on mine."

That, right there, is the heart of the protest: We won't go until the Mandates are removed.

There will be no negotiation if you infringe on mine.


Are they ALL being charged ... ?? hardly FORCE if they are not ALL being charged.

Make a few examples and kowtow everyone else into compliance. Much more efficient.

Easier for the businesses to make money ... if they stay IN business.



Them's the rules though ... life can be tough.

Sure, and for a Fair and Just society, they are rooted in natural rights. Take Graffiti as an example - you're defacing someone elses property, someone else then has to spend time, effort and money to clean it up. You have infringed upon their natural rights. Thus a Fine (backed up by the force of Government) is entirely warranted.


Much sooner then ... ?? :scratch:

When the Ink dries ;)


Because being dead is unbecoming. And unhealthy.
The ethic that being above ground is better than the alternative.

You're halfway there, there's something you need to add in though.


I was referring to a situation when ... somebody might like you dead. Just because his watch is busted and yours looks like it's working ok.

Good thing I don't wear watches then...


Fighting off the moths ... :shifty:

Those sneaky bastards...


They should start that practice up again here in NZ.

Radio NZ lookout.

Not that I said it, but maybe the quality of journalism would improve....


He was hung after the war ended.

Monty Python had nothing on this guy. Most brits thought it of a sort of comedy program.

And even when he was Hung, there was a dissenting opinion in the House of Lords. Even Scoundrels and Wretches deserve a defence something something British Liberal values something.




The jury is still out ... on what it is a "Great Example" of ... I never was a fan of it.
Too many Pom's on it.

In terms of impartial reporting on facts - for a long time the BBC was considered the standard when it came to televised/radio news.

[Viking01]

Exactly. You have arrived at my position. Based on the British Liberal conceptions of Natural Rights and how they are limited in relation to one another. And from this conception:

.....

In terms of impartial reporting on facts - for a long time the BBC was considered the standard when it came to televised/radio news.


So, what are you saying ? That the Beeb is no longer considered fair and impartial in its reporting ?

What do you think about Boris's recent request (via Culture Secretary Nadine Dorries) to ask Ofcom to review - and possibly revoke - RT's operating licence ?

Cheers, Viking

[TheDemonLord]

So, what are you saying ? That the Beeb is no longer considered fair and impartial in its reporting ?

Hasn't been since around 2005/2010 or so. The tipping point for most people was their Brexit coverage. Since then the BBC has become increasingly left-wing and Woke. Which in of itself is a great tragedy, but in the grand scheme of things - it's just another Noble institution corrupted and destroyed by Marxism.


What do you think about Boris's recent request (via Culture Secretary Nadine Dorries) to ask Ofcom to review - and possibly revoke - RT's operating licence ?

Cheers, Viking

Assume that it goes through, will it have any effect? Barely. People will still be able to watch online.

[Viking01]

Hasn't been since around 2005/2010 or so. The tipping point for most people was their Brexit coverage. Since then the BBC has become increasingly left-wing and Woke. Which in of itself is a great tragedy, but in the grand scheme of things - it's just another Noble institution corrupted and destroyed by Marxism.



Assume that it goes through, will it have any effect? Barely. People will still be able to watch online.

So, given that there have been Conservative governments since 2010 (Cameron), how has this "woke-ness" come about, or these insidious Marxists managed to take control ?

[TheDemonLord]

So, given that there have been Conservative governments since 2010 (Cameron), how has this "woke-ness" come about, or these insidious Marxists managed to take control ?

The short answer is Universities.

The longer answer is more complex:

Firstly - Cameron, May, Boris - none of them have really been very 'Conservative'. Cameron loved to spend, May was a wet blanket, and Bojo is a bit of a Greenie. Not exactly Thatcher or Churchill esque Conservatives.

Secondly - there is an issue of Vigilance - There have been those of us that first saw the Schisms waaaaay back in 2011 (that's when ElevatorGate* happened) and we've seen an increasing encroachment, with each victory the Woke brigade has grown bolder and bolder and managed to subvert more and more institutions. Some conservatives have started to realize this and you could consider Trump part of the start of the pushback, with the likes of Ron De Santis as well in the US, Kemi Badendoch in the UK and Saint Seymour in NZ.

You could also argue that the creep of Political Correctness realistically started in the 1980s, it was confined mostly to Academia at that point, it started to get it's tendrils into society in the 90s - but then 2 key events happened: The internet and 9/11 - Those two firstly gave people a place to interact with other like-minded folks (the internet) but more importantly gave people a sense that there very existence was under attack (9/11).

This Galvanisation of ideals and principles is actually one of the things that Antonio Gramsci (Italian Communist and whose work heavily influenced the Postmodern movement, Radical Feminism, Critical Theory, Critical Race Theory - basically all the Marxist shite) warned against - that a frontal assault would merely result in people closing ranks around their ideals which leads to the next part:

Thirdly - there is an issue of Liberal principles. This is perhaps the most insidious and effective part. Consider Free speech - I'm quite a vocal proponent of Free Speech, which means I must support the right to speak of those who I wish would not speak. There are those on the 'woke' side who know this, they know what our principles are and they deliberately exploit them. Gramsci referred to this as a 'War of Position' whereby you make an appeal to the Liberal Value in order to subvert the Liberal value.

Perhaps the most clear example of this currently is Diversity Inclusion and Equity (DIE!), The Liberal value is that was don't want to discriminate - and so the Closet Communist says: 'Well, there's 20% of your population that are X colour, yet they only make up 5% of this prestigious industry, that means there *must* be discrimination somewhere, you don't want to Discriminate, don't you? That's wrong! So we'll just hire a few people based on their Race and not their qualifications".

Most people find it hard to argue against that, because of their Liberal values - they don't want to be (or seen to be) a Racist, yet the correct response is to re-assert the Liberal value 'I don't see their Skin Colour, I only see their qualifications'. Again this has roots in Gramsci's theories.

Fourthly - Conquests laws (or possibly O'Sullivans laws) - Any institution not explicitly right-wing, eventually becomes Left Wing. We've got numerous prominent examples of this - the BBC for example or the ACLU (Once had Jews defending Neo-Nazis right to speak, now are fully onboard with Cancel-Culture). HR Departments, Education (both university and the wider system), Marketing departments etc. In my industry - most of the people-facing roles are very left-wing, whereas most of the Engineering/Technical side is more evenly balanced.

Fifthly - Yuri Bezmenov described how this process used to be instigated by the KGB over a period of 20 years (isn't that an interesting number...) to generate internal discord in a country that would eventually lead to a Communist revolution. It's a slow creep, first in the Universities, then those people go out into the world and after a time they attain positions of power and influence and then they are able to use that to hire more like-minded individuals, which solidifies their world view (if everyone in the Office thinks XYZ...). Those who stay in the Universities teach the next batch of students (who will inevitably take the ideas one step further than the last intake) and so on and so forth.

When you have gone so-far left in the University, that someone can re-write parts of Mein Kampf, replacing Jew with 'Straight White man' and it gets accepted for Publishing....

Lastly - To give the Devils their Due - they are very clever. Not as clever as they might think, but they are Clever, they've got a long academic tradition, they've got successful ways and means to mount their attacks and most of all:


“The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance,”

And most of us aren't being very Vigilant.

[Berries]

I blame Thatcher.

[TheDemonLord]

I blame Thatcher.

She was calling out Feminism and it's Marxist roots back in the 80s.

She wouldn't have tolerated any of this shit.

I blame Marx and continental Philosophy.

[jellywrestler]

News reports a couple of protesters (which in all probability means a whole lot more, as yet untested) have tested positive for C19 - wonder how they feel about having a virus that they claim does not exist. As they are unlikely to be vaccinated they may well get the serious version, in which case they will expect to go to hospital for treatment. This is where the Singapore approach would be warranted.

There will be a number there, last night it was reported 75 % of those in hospital in nz have been vaccinated so either way the proximity, numbers and length of time will mean it's a cess pit. Yet it is still not been declared a location of interest.
Can you imagine them telling you which malls picture theatres and vape shops they have visited, diligently?

What's worse is they put three very famous people, russell coutts and the lead singer of op shop at risk, and winnie peters too. (he's the one who cried out for masks a few months ago and then arse licked his way through there without wearing on the other day)
The good thing is, not one of the thousands of other very famous people in nz have been exposed, none of coutts crew, nor the rest of the op shop band so when they keel over, no pun intended re coutts, we will still have thousands of other very famous people.

Of all their banner waving, and belief that everyone is behind them that's all they could russell up.... Where's Chloe from wainiuomata and the Topp Twins when you need them?

[Berries]

She wouldn't have tolerated any of this shit.
Was just picturing her and Jacinda having a fight with Crusher holding the towel.

Didn't they use to have jelly wrestling on Taranaki Street?

:girlfight:

[pritch]

Not according to a body of evidence that is being ignored. I'll wait.

Of course there's a fucking good reason why it's being ignored.

[TheDemonLord]

Was just picturing her and Jacinda having a fight with Crusher holding the towel.

Didn't they use to have jelly wrestling on Taranaki Street?

:girlfight:

I've got $20 on the Iron Lady.

[pritch]

Made reference to this previously but it got dragged to pink hell.



Y'all will have noticed the illiterati at Parliament waving their "Freedom" signs. Evidently they want freedom, or possibly they just want more freedom.
Herewith the 2022 international freedom index. Take a look at where we are.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/freedom-index-by-country

Unsurprising though, they don't like the Government's handling of COVID either, and that response is widely considered a world leader.

[TheDemonLord]

Made reference to this previously but it got dragged to pink hell.

Y'all will have noticed the illiterati at Parliament waving their "Freedom" signs. Evidently they want freedom, or possibly they just want more freedom.
Herewith the 2022 international freedom index. Take a look at where we are.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/freedom-index-by-country

Unsurprising though, they don't like the Government's handling of COVID either, and that response is widely considered a world leader.

Yes Peasants, you see we've looked at the Stats and have determined that you are in fact free.

I see that Trudeau has just capitulated.

Hopefully Jacinda will follow suit (or be removed from office - Either or).

[Viking01]

The short answer is Universities.

The longer answer is more complex:

Firstly - Cameron, May, Boris - none of them have really been very 'Conservative'. Cameron loved to spend, May was a wet blanket, and Bojo is a bit of a Greenie. Not exactly Thatcher or Churchill esque Conservatives.

Secondly - there is an issue of Vigilance - There have been those of us that first saw the Schisms waaaaay back in 2011 (that's when ElevatorGate* happened)

....

And most of us aren't being very Vigilant.

Well, that was an interesting reply.

BoJo - a Greenie ? Who would have known ? Mind you, with all the money likely to be made from funding of Climate Change related projects, I suppose it might have been expected.

ElevatorGate ? That one obviously passed me by. I had to go look that one up. I will make sure that I don't engage in conversations with strangers in lifts in the future.

I have to say the past 20+ years (let's say post 911), I've probably been more concerned about the neo-liberals (who seem to want to restructure economies regardless) and the neo-cons (who seem to want to conduct wars all around the globe).

So I will admit that I haven't been keeping an eye on the Woke crowd, or all those Marxists hiding in closets (or should that be cloisters ? - have I mixed my metaphors ?)

In any case, I shall check all the wardrobes and closets at home to make sure that there are no Marxists (or other undesirable groups) sheltering there.
I'll also be sure to check under the beds as well.

Thanks for the heads-up. I will undertake to be more vigilant in future. Keep up the good work.

Cheers, Viking

[pete376403]

I see that Trudeau has just capitulated.

"...But all border blockades have now ended and the streets around the Canadian Parliament are quiet.

"We were very clear that the use of the emergencies act would be limited in time," Trudeau said. "We said we would lift it as soon as possible."

capitulated how? If the protests have ended then the emergency powers are no longer required. Alternative facts, much?

https://www.npr.org/2022/02/23/1082637172/trudeau-revokes-emergency-powers-after-canada-blockades-end

[pete376403]

Well, that was an interesting reply.

I have to say the past 20+ years (let's say post 911), I've probably been more concerned about the neo-liberals (who seem to want to restructure economies regardless) and the neo-cons (who seem to want to conduct wars all around the globe).


Cheers, Viking

this was worth listening to : https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018831833/davos-man-the-billionaires-who-looted-the-world-s-economies

[R650R]

Funny, just saw a protest video of a cop spraying pepper spray, with a masked and shielded cop then turning around and seeking medical attention. Let the shit slinging begin. Anyone got a video of the shit slinging incident that shows a different angle? So far it looks like a cop pepper spraying his colleagues and then allowing lies to be spread to cover his arse. Unless, as I said, anyone has a video that shows the incident from another angle?

Sounds plausible.... there was a viral video this way few years ago. Police pursuit... guy dumps car and runs for it. Female cop try’s to pepper spray offender but man those little cans spray like a garden hose lol she took out several of her colleagues.

[mashman]

Of course there's a fucking good reason why it's being ignored.

Being ignorant and old and sticking yer fingers in yer eyes and ears goin' "lah lah lah lah I can't hear you" isn't a good reason. Yet that's all you have, coz the science is not on your side. The fact that you can't admit it, well, there's no surprise there coz ignorant and old = power.

[mashman]

Sounds plausible.... there was a viral video this way few years ago. Police pursuit... guy dumps car and runs for it. Female cop try’s to pepper spray offender but man those little cans spray like a garden hose lol she took out several of her colleagues.

It was my wife who pointed it out. I was too busy trying to look at the crowd to see what they'd done and missed it. It's almost keystone. Still not up there with the cop that started smacking the shit out of the cuffed guy sitting on the wall, nor indeed the naked chick that was dragged out and had a white sheet put over her torso and head before the cop then kneels on her head for a wee rest. So long as it's not on telly, it's not true innit.

[roogazza]

Was just picturing her and Jacinda having a fight with Crusher holding the towel.

Didn't they use to have jelly wrestling on Taranaki Street?

:girlfight:

Lol , I can see it now , Teeth everywhere ! :shifty: :laugh:

[TheDemonLord]

Well, that was an interesting reply.

BoJo - a Greenie ? Who would have known ? Mind you, with all the money likely to be made from funding of Climate Change related projects, I suppose it might have been expected.

Well, I suppose I should have clarified - One can be Conservative and Green, they aren't mutually exclusive. The problem comes when you are spending tax payers money on Green Initiatives and passing legislation that penalises non-green (and non-nuclear) power that results in an increase in everyone's power bills.

Creating an effective Tax that disproportionately impacts low income earners, to fund the vanity projects of High society activists is certainly not anything Conservative.


ElevatorGate ? That one obviously passed me by. I had to go look that one up. I will make sure that I don't engage in conversations with strangers in lifts in the future.

It's what I consider to be the opening salvo in the Culture War - if you go back to the late 2000s, you had a lot of spirited debate on the likes of YouTube etc. effectively between what was then the Christian Right and the Atheist Left. Issues such as Gay Marriage whereby the Liberal position was that of 'Let's not have the State interferring in peoples lives' and the Christian Conservative position.

You had the 4 horseman of Atheism (Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris and Randi) who were regularly debating Theologians and regularly spanking them. And this was a fairly unified movement... Until ElevatorGate when Rebecca Watson accused someone of hitting on her... at 4 in the morning... after they'd been drinking at a Bar... By asking if she wanted to go with him to his hotel room.

To every rational person - he made an advance, she rebuffed, he didn't press the issue - no harm no foul. But the Feminist wing of the Atheist group (the Atheist+ types) went apeshit. This was when the Social Justice warrior/Feminst/Intersectional/woke types first appeared.

Then you had the whole GamerGate saga (I'm sorry for the abuse of the word 'gate' but if it's any consolation, I didn't come up with these terms) whereby a number of Video Game 'journalists' had slept their way into positions of power, were pushing their woke viewpoint on Computer Games and the Gamers Revolted.

Skip forward to today - you can see the same pattern with Amazon's The Ring of Power - where it is less about Tolkein and more a vehicle to push the current woke agenda.


I have to say the past 20+ years (let's say post 911), I've probably been more concerned about the neo-liberals (who seem to want to restructure economies regardless) and the neo-cons (who seem to want to conduct wars all around the globe).

It's almost like the prepending 'neo-' onto anything forgoes the actual meaning of the word.... Now to be clear - those groups have been of concern, and I've got no love for either of them.

The thing is though - I can't remember a Neo-Con or a Neo-Lib subverting an institution to the degree that the Wokeists have. I've got my theories as to why that is (Neither the Neo-libs or Neo-Cons have a utopian world view, whereas the Wokeists do)



So I will admit that I haven't been keeping an eye on the Woke crowd, or all those Marxists hiding in closets (or should that be cloisters ? - have I mixed my metaphors ?)

In any case, I shall check all the wardrobes and closets at home to make sure that there are no Marxists (or other undesirable groups) sheltering there. Thanks for the heads-up. I will undertake to be more vigilant in future. Keep up the good work.

Cheers, Viking

I'd suggest starting to look into it.

[pritch]

Being ignorant and old and sticking yer fingers in yer eyes and ears goin' "lah lah lah lah I can't hear you" isn't a good reason. Yet that's all you have, coz the science is not on your side. The fact that you can't admit it, well, there's no surprise there coz ignorant and old = power.

Ignoring all the gratuitously stupid stuff, I'd guess that what you and I regard as science may be two different things.

[jellywrestler]

Hopefully Jacinda will follow suit (or be removed from office - Either or).

And replaced with who?
Who the fuck would have done any or much different?

[mashman]

Ignoring all the gratuitously stupid stuff, I'd guess that what you and I regard as science may be two different things.

If we regard science as anything different, then you're wrong... then again, science doesn't ignore anything as it disproves things in order to remove them from the equation, maybe you are wrong.

Seriously? We don't think that science is the same thing? :killingme... You don't like 1 body of evidence. That you have to call it something other than science, despite the evidence presented, well, yeah, that doesn;t make your position scientific in any way shape or form. It makes you a parrot.

[pritch]

If we regard science as anything different, then you're wrong... then again, science doesn't ignore anything as it disproves things in order to remove them from the equation, maybe you are wrong.

Seriously? We don't think that science is the same thing? :killingme... You don't like 1 body of evidence. That you have to call it something other than science, despite the evidence presented, well, yeah, that doesn;t make your position scientific in any way shape or form. It makes you a parrot.


Ah well. Here we are. A couple of our resident fuckups had left the site so I did away with my ignore list. That was a mistake. You are back on ignore.

[TheDemonLord]

And replaced with who?
Who the fuck would have done any or much different?

At this point a piece of Granite would be better - at least a stone can't remove rights whilst smugly smiling and saying how kind it is.

[FJRider]

Exactly. You have arrived at my position.

All bitter and twisted over your perceived lack of freedoms ... Hardly.


You've just agreed with the Protestors position: "There will be no negotiation if you infringe on mine."

That can only be achieved ... if you KNOW you hold an advantage. Minority groups seldom do.

The funny bit is ... minority groups are always at the disadvantage.

Usually ... too stupid to realize that.


That, right there, is the heart of the protest: We won't go until the Mandates are removed.

Don't worry ... there are still a few jail cells not being used at the moment.

They will leave ... but not necessarily ... by their own free will.


There will be no negotiation if you infringe on mine.

Time will tell. But no negotiation means no concessions from either side.

The first rule of negotiation ... is ask for more than you want. Then concede on a few points that you didn't really want.

Commonly known as a win win situation. And better than a TOTAL loss situation.


Make a few examples and kowtow everyone else into compliance. Much more efficient.

Personally ... I'd like more than "A few" ... but that's just me.


Easier for the businesses to make money ... if they stay IN business.

It IS easier for them to make money (and pay tax) ... if they stay IN business.

Perhaps you aren't as stupid as some say you are.


Sure, and for a Fair and Just society ...

NEWS FLASH ... LIFE isn't fair.

Get over it.


When the Ink dries ;)

I'm sorry ... you've lost me there. Explain what you mean there .. ??


You're halfway there, there's something you need to add in though.

Whatever that is ... you need to be alive and have the freedom to do it.

Difficult from a jail cell or a coffin.


Good thing I don't wear watches then...

Personal choices I guess.

But ... I bet you still have your phone.


Those sneaky bastards...

Quite.


Not that I said it, but maybe the quality of journalism would improve....

Some journalists might not agree with the policy change.

But as the current quality policy standard is at rock bottom ... some improvement would be nice.


And even when he was Hung, there was a dissenting opinion in the House of Lords. Even Scoundrels and Wretches deserve a defence something something British Liberal values something.

He was believed (and found) GUILTY before he even got to the courtroom. NO defense lawyer could have EVER hoped/expected to change that simple fact.

Witch hunts had fairer trials.


In terms of impartial reporting on facts - for a long time the BBC was considered the standard when it came to televised/radio news.

Only considered (as such) ... by the Poms.

Funny that ...

[Murray]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/127815331/do-the-protesters-in-wellington-even-know-what-freedom-means

[R650R]

And replaced with who?
Who the fuck would have done any or much different?

Anyone with clear leadership skills and perhaps some real life experience.

Under her watch we’ve had massive explosion in gang numbers....
She announced we’re going to imprison 30% less people without having a real plan in place to heal or fix the people already on that path....
Driveby shootings are just a secondary regular news headline now
There’s so much gang violence it’s now called “ disorder” to disguise how bad it is....
Our local police post on their FB page notice of no go areas (not in those words of course) when there are large gatherings for funerals or other activities....
Housing market.... total economic incompetence could you imagine the prices if covid hadn’t halted immigration for last couple years....
She said one thing and then done opposite andctried to play word games with public...
Has five press secretaries (got to cross reference and check the propoganda matches up and screen questions ahead of time)
Responsible for the biggest protest fiasco since motua gardens purely by refusing to engage in briefest dialogue at start, fail at negotiation 101.
Despite having a majority first past post style election win felt she needed to have greens as coalition partner, what does that say about faith in your own party and colleagues?

[husaberg]

Anyone with clear leadership skills and perhaps some real life experience.

Under her watch we’ve had massive explosion in gang numbers....
She announced we’re going to imprison 30% less people without having a real plan in place to heal or fix the people already on that path....
Driveby shootings are just a secondary regular news headline now
There’s so much gang violence it’s now called “ disorder” to disguise how bad it is....
Our local police post on their FB page notice of no go areas (not in those words of course) when there are large gatherings for funerals or other activities....
Housing market.... total economic incompetence could you imagine the prices if covid hadn’t halted immigration for last couple years....
She said one thing and then done opposite andctried to play word games with public...
Has five press secretaries (got to cross reference and check the propoganda matches up and screen questions ahead of time)
Responsible for the biggest protest fiasco since motua gardens purely by refusing to engage in briefest dialogue at start, fail at negotiation 101.
Despite having a majority first past post style election win felt she needed to have greens as coalition partner, what does that say about faith in your own party and colleagues?
You could just move to America and live in Florida with your beloved leader.

[pritch]

You could just move to America and live in Florida with your beloved leader.

Then he’d learn that his beloved leader despises him as he does all his followers. When Trump thought they might try and stay in his hotel in DC around the time of his coup attempt he put the prices so high they couldn’t afford it.

The people Trump wants to hang with despise him, so he’s kind of Donny no mates.

[TheDemonLord]

All bitter and twisted over your perceived lack of freedoms ... Hardly.

That can only be achieved ... if you KNOW you hold an advantage. Minority groups seldom do.

The funny bit is ... minority groups are always at the disadvantage.

Usually ... too stupid to realize that.

Don't worry ... there are still a few jail cells not being used at the moment.

They will leave ... but not necessarily ... by their own free will.

Time will tell. But no negotiation means no concessions from either side.

The first rule of negotiation ... is ask for more than you want. Then concede on a few points that you didn't really want.

Commonly known as a win win situation. And better than a TOTAL loss situation.

You may not be as upset about the Mandates as me, but you've outright stated you believe in the same principle - that your rights are not negotiable. And whilst minority groups have some disadvantages, they do have one key advantage: An appeal to underlying values. Ending of Slavery, Gay rights - all of these causes were fought for by a Minority and won on an appeal to Liberal values.


Personally ... I'd like more than "A few" ... but that's just me.

Remember when I made the comparison between Covid restrictions and the rise of fascistic thinking and everyone mocked me for it?

There it is.



It IS easier for them to make money (and pay tax) ... if they stay IN business.

Perhaps you aren't as stupid as some say you are.

Ironically, that was a quote from you I forgot to format and respond to. The response was going to be 'It's even easier if the Government leave them the hell alone'



NEWS FLASH ... LIFE isn't fair.

Get over it.

Sure, but there's a difference between the random chance of life and government mandated discrimination.


I'm sorry ... you've lost me there. Explain what you mean there .. ??

You said that Force happens the handcuffs are slapped on.
I'm saying that the Force happens when the Ink that signed the law into existence dries - that's the point at which the Government can confiscate your property, arrest you etc.


Whatever that is ... you need to be alive and have the freedom to do it.

Difficult from a jail cell or a coffin.

I'll leave you to ponder and stew on that. But Death (or the threat of Death) isn't a factor


Personal choices I guess.

But ... I bet you still have your phone.

heh, I was waiting for that.



Some journalists might not agree with the policy change.

But as the current quality policy standard is at rock bottom ... some improvement would be nice.

How about we start small, a Public Flogging?


He was believed (and found) GUILTY before he even got to the courtroom. NO defense lawyer could have EVER hoped/expected to change that simple fact.

Witch hunts had fairer trials.

To be fair, his crime(s) were fairly well... Broadcast...


Only considered (as such) ... by the Poms.

Funny that ...

The US (Both Dems and Repubs) used to say the BBC was much more neutral than anything in the US - then there's all the former colonies (Aus, India, Canada, NZ etc.)

[pritch]

Although such may not appear to be the case, the police have a playbook for this situation. Most democracies use similar. Initially they use restraint. To be heavy handed would just create matyrs, and create sympathy for the occupation.

When the time is right they can cut services and start putting the squeeze on space.

Once the occupation starts to break up, by which time the police, the politicians, and the public, are over it. Things change. From that point heads can get cracked, cars can get damaged etc. Which may come as a shock to any idiot protestor that thought they had the upper hand and that things were going to continue as they had been.

The internal security training I did related to the reading of the Riot Act. After that they could start shooting people. That'd work too. :whistle:

Anyway I await the final phase with breathless anticipation.

[TheDemonLord]

Although such may not appear to be the case, the police have a playbook for this situation. Most democracies use similar. Initially they use restraint. To be heavy handed would just create matyrs, and create sympathy for the occupation.

When the time is right they can cut services and start putting the squeeze on space.

Once the occupation starts to break up, by which time the police, the politicians, and the public, are over it. Things change. From that point heads can get cracked, cars can get damaged etc. Which may come as a shock to any idiot protestor that thought they had the upper hand and that things were going to continue as they had been.

The internal security training I did related to the reading of the Riot Act. After that they could start shooting people. That'd work too. :whistle:

Anyway I await the final phase with breathless anticipation.

Indeed....

https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/storm-troopers.jpg

[FJRider]

And whilst minority groups have some disadvantages, they do have one key advantage: An appeal to underlying values. Ending of Slavery, Gay rights - all of these causes were fought for by a Minority and won on an appeal to Liberal values.

The "Minority" that caused the downfall of slavery and the legalization of Homosexuality ... was far greater than the NZ unvaxxed mob and their supporters will ever be. Anti slavery and Gay rights groups were/are world wide ... and still breeding.

The anti-vax lot are dead in the water. Doing themselves more harm than good by their own and seemingly divided actions ... and not just in Wellington.



Remember when I made the comparison between Covid restrictions and the rise of fascistic thinking and everyone mocked me for it?

Have you not noticed .. ??? ... we're STILL mocking you.

There it is ... MY (ok .. your) very words.



Ironically, that was a quote from you I forgot to format and respond to. The response was going to be 'It's even easier if the Government leave them the hell alone'

Why I agreed with it.



Sure, but there's a difference between the random chance of life and government mandated discrimination.

Life is full of random chances ... some of those may take your life. Life as such ... isn't fair. The good people have just the same probability of dying as the bad. Mitigation of risk is a personal decision. As is ... what and where you see as the perceived risk. Mitigation of perceived risks is entirely up to the individual to decide ... even if Governmental mandates are in place.

As I've said before ... risk assessment is a personal decision. Make one ... and live with the consequences ... or not.

Motorcycling is similar ... the risk of death is always there. The most skilled motorcyclists in the world ... can still die whilst riding a motorcycle.


You said that Force happens the handcuffs are slapped on.
I'm saying that the Force happens when the Ink that signed the law into existence dries - that's the point at which the Government can confiscate your property, arrest you etc.

Nobody is forced to break the law. That's another personal choice. It's an action that "MAY" get a reaction. That reaction may WELL be force.


I'll leave you to ponder and stew on that. But Death (or the threat of Death) isn't a factor

As you may have surmised already ... I don't take a threat of death lightly. The mitigation level for such threats may vary.


heh, I was waiting for that.

Sorry to keep you waiting ...


How about we start small, a Public Flogging?

It's a start.


To be fair, his crime(s) were fairly well... Broadcast...

German Officers with more heinous crimes to their record ... suffered less punishment.

Life AND death often isn't fair.


The US (Both Dems and Repubs) used to say the BBC was much more neutral than anything in the US - then there's all the former colonies (Aus, India, Canada, NZ etc.)

I used to listen to the BBC in Asia. Usually closer to the truth than the local stations.

In Singapore ... a (NZ) forces rugby team played the Singapore National rugby team. The score was 56-nil to the Kiwi's.

The next day ... the local main newspaper described the game as a narrow loss for the Singapore team.

Journalistic bias I think.

[TheDemonLord]

The "Minority" that caused the downfall of slavery and the legalization of Homosexuality ... was far greater than the NZ unvaxxed mob and their supporters will ever be. Anti slavery and Gay rights groups were/are world wide ... and still breeding.

The anti-vax lot are dead in the water. Doing themselves more harm than good by their own and seemingly divided actions ... and not just in Wellington.

Were they? Are they? Those are some pretty bold claims... Let's see if we can find some evidence for that.

https://www.bsa.natcen.ac.uk/latest-report/british-social-attitudes-30/personal-relationships/homosexuality.aspx

You only get a net-positive approval around the year 2000. I'm sure if such data was to exist on the issue of Slavery we would see very much the same thing. It was never the Majority opinion that swayed the matter, but the appeal to principles that did.

The Anti-Mandate lot (which will include anti-vaxxers) also are making an appeal to princples.


Have you not noticed .. ??? ... we're STILL mocking you.

There it is ... MY (ok .. your) very words.

I know... but as the evidence validates my point of view (see the increased suicide rate due to Lockdowns, the 20 point IQ drop for children born during Lockdown, Speech, language and emotional impairement due to mask wearing) - who will be mocking Whom?




Life is full of random chances ... some of those may take your life. Life as such ... isn't fair. The good people have just the same probability of dying as the bad. Mitigation of risk is a personal decision. As is ... what and where you see as the perceived risk. Mitigation of perceived risks is entirely up to the individual to decide ... even if Governmental mandates are in place.

As I've said before ... risk assessment is a personal decision. Make one ... and live with the consequences ... or not.

Motorcycling is similar ... the risk of death is always there. The most skilled motorcyclists in the world ... can still die whilst riding a motorcycle.

And this is again, a wonderfully articulated appeal to the notion of Bodily Autonomy, individual rights and responsibilities - If the Government had acted on these principles, that each individual is able to judge their level of Risk, Perhaps even with some protections for those who felt the risk was too great - I would have been fine with it.

What you've written is something every protestor would agree with. They want the freedom to manage their level of risk as they see fit.


Nobody is forced to break the law. That's another personal choice. It's an action that "MAY" get a reaction. That reaction may WELL be force.

That depends, if a Law is Immoral and demands something that violated your conscious...


As you may have surmised already ... I don't take a threat of death lightly. The mitigation level for such threats may vary.

Neither - what I wouldn't do is let someone else dictate to me what level of mitigation I must take for me and my life.


It's a start.

Deal. We'll just have to make sure we select ones that don't enjoy it. Otherwise could get awkward.


German Officers with more heinous crimes to their record ... suffered less punishment.

Life AND death often isn't fair.

They didn't seek to inspire defeat.


I used to listen to the BBC in Asia. Usually closer to the truth than the local stations.

And once again, you accidentally prove my point ;)

Starting to become a habit of yours...

[FJRider]

Were they? Are they? Those are some pretty bold claims... Let's see if we can find some evidence for that.

Simple mathematics ... The roughly 10% of any population (that has ANY say in the matter of any covid restrictions placed on them by their Government ... Vs the world wide antislavery movement ... that changed governments ... and caused wars.


The Anti-Mandate lot (which will include anti-vaxxers) also are making an appeal to princples.

With what I've seen of the Wellington mob ... any appeal to principals seems ironic.


I know... but as the evidence validates my point of view (see the increased suicide rate due to Lockdowns, the 20 point IQ drop for children born during Lockdown, Speech, language and emotional impairement due to mask wearing) - who will be mocking Whom?

If those capable of suicide during lockdown ... they were well capable of suicide prior to it. All they needed was an excuse.

As the saying goes ... any excuse is better than none.


If the Government had acted on these principles, that each individual is able to judge their level of Risk, Perhaps even with some protections for those who felt the risk was too great - I would have been fine with it.

Judging by the rabble mob in Wellington ... they are hardly qualified to judge levels of risk. Even some on here believe "Fresh Air" will cure you of Covid.

How many of that unmasked mob CAUGHT Covid there .. ?? and you claim they are qualified to judge risk ... REALLY ... ??


What you've written is something every protestor would agree with. They want the freedom to manage their level of risk as they see fit.

The mob in Wellington had that freedom. See how well it worked out.


That depends, if a Law is Immoral and demands something that violated your conscious...

There are effective legal ways to protest. Personal choices for whatever method they use.


Neither - what I wouldn't do is let someone else dictate to me what level of mitigation I must take for me and my life.

Rash and ill thought out actions do more harm than good. and not usually in your own best interest.


Deal. We'll just have to make sure we select ones that don't enjoy it. Otherwise could get awkward.

True ... I tied this chick up one time (long story) ... :shifty:


They didn't seek to inspire defeat.

Neither did the chick I mentioned ...

But To the contrary of your claim ... more and more German officers near the end ... actually DID. And they got to live.

Go figure


And once again, you accidentally prove my point ;)

I did say ... Closer to the truth than local stations.

World wide ... not so much.


Starting to become a habit of yours...

Your perception of things is a little out. Well ... needs work.

[pritch]

https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/storm-troopers.jpg

That's actually quite good. These days I usually scroll past most of your stuff, your mental contortions are just not worth the trouble. Couldn't miss that one though.

[R650R]

Although such may not appear to be the case, the police have a playbook for this situation. Most democracies use similar. Initially they use restraint. To be heavy handed would just create matyrs, and create sympathy for the occupation.

When the time is right they can cut services and start putting the squeeze on space.

Once the occupation starts to break up, by which time the police, the politicians, and the public, are over it. Things change. From that point heads can get cracked, cars can get damaged etc. Which may come as a shock to any idiot protestor that thought they had the upper hand and that things were going to continue as they had been.

The internal security training I did related to the reading of the Riot Act. After that they could start shooting people. That'd work too. :whistle:

Anyway I await the final phase with breathless anticipation.

Someone with gumption has to declare a riot first though and with all the behind the scenes politics that may not be so easy...
Leaders have a playbook for this situation too, it’s quite a short book called Self Respect by Manuo Fonor ISBN 345286.4 It starts and ends on page one with Listen learn and respond....

In the end I think covid will be accepted as part of daily life and be so widespread soon that the mandates will be redundant very shortly. Either the govt will capitulate or private business will reach tipping point of not being the enforcers.
Just look at latest deaths to case number ratio, there’s no way any restrictions would be brought in if omicron was the first virus....
Jacinda has a very narrow window of opportunity to come to compromise however little and the protest will flame itself out. But carry on like a dictator just risks a tianimen square moment which would be her awful legacy and she knows it.
It doesn’t matter if protestors right or wrong a little chat would end all this... Christ even nutters with guns in a siege get the decency of some kind of negotiation....

[husaberg]

Someone with gumption has to declare a riot first though and with all the behind the scenes politics that may not be so easy...
Leaders have a playbook for this situation too, it’s quite a short book called Self Respect by Manuo Fonor ISBN 345286.4 It starts and ends on page one with Listen learn and respond....

In the end I think covid will be accepted as part of daily life and be so widespread soon that the mandates will be redundant very shortly. Either the govt will capitulate or private business will reach tipping point of not being the enforcers.
Just look at latest deaths to case number ratio, there’s no way any restrictions would be brought in if omicron was the first virus....
Jacinda has a very narrow window of opportunity to come to compromise however little and the protest will flame itself out. But carry on like a dictator just risks a tianimen square moment which would be her awful legacy and she knows it.
It doesn’t matter if protestors right or wrong a little chat would end all this... Christ even nutters with guns in a siege get the decency of some kind of negotiation....


Odd as you are earlier suggesting they need to be firmer on both control and the occupation now you are suggesting the complete opposite...
If only there was a word to describe such hypocritical comments

[mashman]

Did I just read that right. NZPolice and NZDF brought a case against the government for improperly imposing the vaccine mandate, and they won. Coz that could mean that the cops and army ended the protest peacefully. Ha. Unlikely, but funny nonetheless. It should show the angry guys how stupid they've been, but they have no accountability for their actions given that monkey see monkey do. You'll be right guys :niceone:

[mulletman]

Did I just read that right. NZPolice and NZDF brought a case against the government for improperly imposing the vaccine mandate, and they won. Coz that could mean that the cops and army ended the protest peacefully. Ha. Unlikely, but funny nonetheless. It should show the angry guys how stupid they've been, but they have no accountability for their actions given that monkey see monkey do. You'll be right guys :niceone:

Yep , its a good start

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/462265/covid-19-high-court-quashes-unlawful-vaccine-mandate-for-police-and-defence-force-staff

[Kickaha]

see the increased suicide rate due to Lockdowns

Is that the same NZ suicide rate that has declined the last two years in a row ? and other countries with lockdowns have seen something similar, you mean that suicide rate ?

[husaberg]

Is that the same NZ suicide rate that has declined the last two years in a row ? and other countries with lockdowns have seen something similar, you mean that suicide rate ?

TLdr before i put him on ignore liked to blame suicide on women. He supported women being forced to remain married to men against their will.
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/140713-Stupid-World?p=1131125302#post1131125302


He often likes to make up stats and was quite contrite that if shown to be wrong that, if the stats clearly didn't match his opinion he was to his own mind still clearly right.
You know just a average conspiracy theorist winging pom.

[Murray]

So its not COVID! Real evil at play here.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/02/covid-19-anti-mandate-protester-brad-flutey-admits-quite-a-few-getting-really-sick-at-parliament.html

[FJRider]

So its not COVID! Real evil at play here.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/02/covid-19-anti-mandate-protester-brad-flutey-admits-quite-a-few-getting-really-sick-at-parliament.html

I like the bit where it's said ...
Director-General of Health Dr Ashley Bloomfield confirmed on Thursday afternoon that COVID-infected members of the anti-mandate protest had been seeking hospital care.


The question remains ... WHY ... for something that the Anti- vax brigade claim that Covid is nothing more serious than the Flu ... is something THEY need hospital treatment for .. ??

Really ... ??



Tell the soft cocks (if they HAVE COCKS) ... to walk it off.

Preferably ... off the end of the Petone wharf.


But that's just my opinion.

[FJRider]

He often likes to make up stats and was quite contrite that if shown to be wrong that, if the stats clearly didn't match his opinion he was to his own mind still clearly right.
You know just a average conspiracy theorist winging pom.

I had a look for recent stats on NZ suicide ... it's dropping.


Nothing about any increase in any lockdown period.



I hadn't realized he was a pom. I was picking Ugandan (silly me).


My mistake ... English did seem to be his second language though ... <_<




Just saying ...

[FJRider]

Did I just read that right. NZPolice and NZDF brought a case against the government for improperly imposing the vaccine mandate, and they won. Coz that could mean that the cops and army ended the protest peacefully. Ha. Unlikely, but funny nonetheless. It should show the angry guys how stupid they've been, but they have no accountability for their actions given that monkey see monkey do. You'll be right guys :niceone:

You DID read right ... BUT ... !!!


The Armed forces (which DO include Police) do not actually have ALL the same rights and privileges ... as all civilians do.

The exemption is to do with having Sworn Allegiance to the Crown.

It only applies to those who have already sworn allegiance to the crown. Even those that have already LEFT their respective service force.

Beyond warfare ... the military may be employed in additional sanctioned (and non-sanctioned) functions within the state. Including internal security threats / population control / promotion of a political agendas / emergency services and reconstruction and protecting corporate economic interests.



And some other stuff you don't need to know about ... if you don't know already.



But ... that does NOT mean the cops and army has ended anything regarding the protests ... IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.

That is ... ANY protest ... ANYWHERE in NZ.


It only applies to those who have already sworn allegiance to the crown. Even those that have already LEFT their respective service force.

For those that served ... that NEVER expires.





Sorry ... :killingme

[FJRider]

Yep , its a good start




Not really ... read my previous post.

[FJRider]

Just look at latest deaths to case number ratio, there’s no way any restrictions would be brought in if omicron was the first virus....

But it wasn't.


"She" has control of the majority of Government ... the rest are bystanders.

Not even reliant on the Greens to make policy.


AND ... She can tell them to fuck off any time she likes.



Make sure you are enrolled to vote in the next election.

Have your say there.



It will likely be YOUR only chance YOU can make ... to change anything.

[mashman]

Yep , its a good start

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/462265/covid-19-high-court-quashes-unlawful-vaccine-mandate-for-police-and-defence-force-staff

I hope so.

[pritch]

Someone with gumption has to declare a riot first though

Why? :sherlock:

[mashman]

You DID read right ... BUT ... !!!

And some arguments that allude to the "Unlikely" I stated.


Personally I was gonna go with orders are orders.


And some other stuff you don't need to know about ... if you don't know already.

Can I trust that you read it correctly and didn't have a prior understanding or ideological viewpoint that tainted your reading of that other stuff. After all, the Law always has more than one side ;).

Which makes me wonder... Did you read that paper and answer your own questions given your new understanding of it :shifty:



But ... that does NOT mean the cops and army has ended anything regarding the protests ... IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.

That is ... ANY protest ... ANYWHERE in NZ.

It only applies to those who have already sworn allegiance to the crown. Even those that have already LEFT their respective service force.

For those that served ... that NEVER expires.

I know, but not all of the arguments were ground in "the crown pwn's you!". Orders are orders after all.

[R650R]

Well that didn’t take long.... bunch of white people blocking road outside another govt institution and with children st their protest too. Shall we call them pro trump white supremicists as well? I see they have also defaced private and public property. Also heinous crime of not wearing their masks properly must be mouth breathers as previously described by devout branchcovidians on here...,


https://youtu.be/Ks7cLWOd4AM

[FJRider]

Personally I was gonna go with orders are orders.

Nothing so mundane ... Sorry.


Can I trust that you read it correctly and didn't have a prior understanding or ideological viewpoint that tainted your reading of that other stuff. After all, the Law always has more than one side ;).

I signed the dotted line ... I served ... I swore the same oath ... and lastly ... I have had the (Military) facts of life explained to me.

As much as I would like to say it was purely MY viewpoint ... and an opinion to gain your ire ... sadly it is NOT.


Such is Service life.


Which makes me wonder... Did you read that paper and answer your own questions given your new understanding of it :shifty:

There are many points of life in the military ... that a civilian will not be aware of. And better (maybe) they don't know.

Everybody sleeps better that way.




I know, but not all of the arguments were ground in "the crown pwn's you!". Orders are orders after all.

Actually ... it's nothing to do with "Orders".

It's to do with the fine print in the papers we (happily) signed.


And ... they gave us a gun too ... :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

[FJRider]

Well that didn’t take long.... bunch of white people blocking road outside another govt institution ...

It wasn't a NZ Government institution ... It was the Russian Embassy.

[neels]

Well that didn’t take long.... bunch of white people blocking road outside another govt institution and with children st their protest too. Shall we call them pro trump white supremicists as well? I see they have also defaced private and public property. Also heinous crime of not wearing their masks properly must be mouth breathers as previously described by devout branchcovidians on here...,
You must have linked the wrong video.

I could see a group of people upset at the way their homeland was being treated, protesting to the local representatives of the aggressors, while wearing masks in a better fashion than half of the idiots you see at the supermarket. All the while traffic passing freely by and not being materially obstructed, and no general public being assaulted or abused, and nobody shitting on the lawn or throwing it at anyone.

Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest, mhmm

[mashman]

I signed the dotted line ... I served ... I swore the same oath ... and lastly ... I have had the (Military) facts of life explained to me.

As much as I would like to say it was purely MY viewpoint ... and an opinion to gain your ire ... sadly it is NOT.

Such is Service life.

lol@ire (sat-ire maybe). Why would I think it was your viewpoint? I know you were a soldier. You've mentioned it once or twice. I know that that means the abdication of ones own opinion when told so. Jus' sayin'.


It's to do with the fine print in the papers we (happily) signed.

"We have the right to do to you and tell you to do whatever we want, because you signed a piece of paper that said so. Or there's the door.". And they say logic, reason and common sense is dead.

Seems there's some movement with the thar laws after all.

[Kickaha]

I had a look for recent stats on NZ suicide ... it's dropping.


Nothing about any increase in any lockdown period.


It has for the last two years and there has not been an increase due to lockdown, unfortunately dumbarse motherfuckers have parroted the "suicides have increased" line enough times that the stupid have believed it, repeated it and the cycle continued

Both the Mental Health Foundation and Ministry of Health did a press release about this due to the fucktard cunts spreading this bullshit

[husaberg]

If we regard science as anything different, then you're wrong... then again, science doesn't ignore anything as it disproves things in order to remove them from the equation, maybe you are wrong.

Seriously? We don't think that science is the same thing? :killingme... You don't like 1 body of evidence. That you have to call it something other than science, despite the evidence presented, well, yeah, that doesn;t make your position scientific in any way shape or form. It makes you a parrot.

Polly is crackers....
Can you tell me that this says Norman?
https://academic.oup.com/ofid/article/8/11/ofab358/6316214


Retracted: Meta-analysis of Randomized Trials of Ivermectin to Treat SARS-CoV-2 Infection


Ivermectin is an antiparasitic drug being investigated for repurposing against severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2). Ivermectin showed in vitro activity against SARS-COV-2, but only at high concentrations. This meta-analysis investigated ivermectin in 23 randomized clinical trials (3349 patients) identified through systematic searches of PUBMED, EMBASE, MedRxiv, and trial registries. The primary meta-analysis was carried out by excluding studies at a high risk of bias. Ivermectin did not show a statistically significant effect on survival (risk ratio [RR], 0.90; 95% CI, 0.57 to 1.42; P = .66) or hospitalizations (RR, 0.63; 95% CI, 0.36 to 1.11; P = .11). Ivermectin displayed a borderline significant effect on duration of hospitalization in comparison with standard of care (mean difference, –1.14 days; 95% CI, –2.27 to –0.00; P = .05). There was no significant effect of ivermectin on time to clinical recovery (mean difference, –0.57 days; 95% CI, –1.31 to 0.17; P = .13) or binary clinical recovery (RR, 1.19; 95% CI, 0.94 to 1.50; P = .15). Currently, the World Health Organization recommends the use of ivermectin only inside clinical trials. A network of large clinical trials is in progress to validate the results seen to date.


On July 6, 2021, Open Forum Infectious Diseases published the article “Meta-analysis of Randomized Trials of Ivermectin to Treat SARS-CoV-2 Infection” by Hill, et al. Subsequently, we and the authors learned that one of the largest studies on which this analysis was based was withdrawn due to fraudulent data; additional problems have emerged regarding other studies included in the original paper. An editorial Expression of Concern was first published under this record as the authors revised their analysis for resubmission.

if its a cure exactly why would it need fraudulent data.

or this
https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/the-american-journal-of-medicine-didnt-recommend-hydroxychloroquine-as-a-treatment-for-covid-19-scientific-evidence-doesnt-show-hydroxychloroquine-is-effective-against-covid-19/


No scientific evidence demonstrates that hydroxychloroquine is useful for preventing or treating COVID-19, despite social media posts and articles claiming otherwise. Large, randomized, controlled clinical trials in several countries found that hydroxychloroquine doesn't produce any benefits in terms of mortality rate or clinical outcomes in COVID-19 patients. Due to the lack of benefits and risk of heart rhythm problems, public health authorities recommend against using hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 patients outside of clinical trials.


Rather than issuing recommendations, scientific journals publish articles where the authors might recommend for or against the use of a particular treatment. For example, The American Journal of Medicine previously published an editorial in which the authors recommend against the use of hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19 patients, which also doesn’t mean that it endorsed this recommendation.

Many articles and posts cite the article by McCullough et al. as a “study”, claiming “the study found that immediate use of hydroxychloroquine, while the patient was still at home, showed significant benefits”. This article focuses on early treatment strategies that can reduce the risk of hospitalization and death in ambulatory COVID-19 patients. Given the lack of clinical trials and specific guidelines for the early treatment of COVID-19 patients, the authors propose several strategies and recommendations.

However, the publication by McCullough et al. doesn’t provide new evidence on the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine in COVID-19 patients, contrary to what many social media posts claim. “Studies” or “research articles” are publications that report newly collected research data and include specific sections describing the methods, results, and conclusions of the research. Instead, the article by McCullough et al. makes general recommendations for treating ambulatory COVID-19 patients based on previous evidence. In fact, the article’s summary highlights the lack of scientific evidence on the topic:

“In the absence of clinical trials and guidelines, with hospitalizations and mortality mounting, it is prudent to deploy treatment for COVID-19 based on pathophysiological principles”.

Therefore, the claim that the publication by McCullough et al. provides scientific evidence of the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in COVID-19 patients is inaccurate.

[pritch]

The question remains ... WHY ... for something that the Anti- vax brigade claim that Covid is nothing more serious than the Flu ... is something THEY need hospital treatment for .. ??

Ah but it’s not the COVID that’s making them sick. The government is bombarding them with EMF rays.

I dunno why they don’t just put their tinfoil hats on.

Coupla days ago one person in ICU. Yesterday five deaths. At least four of these people were not in ICU. The government site says there will be no further comment in deference to the grieving families.

The thought occurs that Darwin’s theory might be catching up with these fucking idiot protestors.

[onearmedbandit]

Ah but it’s not the COVID that’s making them sick. The government is bombarding them with EMF rays.

I dunno why they don’t just put their tinfoil hats on.



They've already started.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/02/anti-mandate-protesters-making-tinfoil-hats-amid-fears-radiation-not-covid-19-is-causing-illness-at-camp.html

[FJRider]

"We have the right to do to you and tell you to do whatever we want, because you signed a piece of paper that said so.


That is all they say.


NO doors were ever mentioned.


As simple as that.

[FJRider]

lol@ire (sat-ire maybe). Why would I think it was your viewpoint? I know you were a soldier. You've mentioned it once or twice. I know that that means the abdication of ones own opinion when told so. Jus' sayin'.

Your line of ...
Can I trust that you read it correctly and didn't have a prior understanding or ideological viewpoint that tainted your reading of that other stuff. After all, the Law always has more than one side

[sugilite]

Indeed....

https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/storm-troopers.jpg

Look how slim those NZ Space Force soldiers are? Bet the American space force would not fit into those snazzy outfits :rolleyes:

[FJRider]

They've already started.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/02/anti-mandate-protesters-making-tinfoil-hats-amid-fears-radiation-not-covid-19-is-causing-illness-at-camp.html

I like this bit near the bottom ...


"Let's call it what it is, flu-like symptoms, we don't know what it is unless you are dumb enough to get a test," Flutey told the podcast.

It seems that a few protesters WERE "Dumb enough" to get tested ... and wouldn't you know it ... they had Covid.

[pete376403]

That is all they say.


NO doors were ever mentioned.


As simple as that.

If referring to the army, there may have been a door to Ardmore that might be open to dissenters

[mashman]

Your line of ...

That was sat-ire... apart from the last bit, which is true, always.

[FJRider]

If referring to the army, there may have been a door to Ardmore that might be open to dissenters

They did indeed have an open door policy there ... :lol:

[FJRider]

That was sat-ire... apart from the last bit, which is true, always.

Funnily enough ... satire becomes close to the truth ... more than you might think.



Go figure.

[mashman]

Funnily enough ... satire becomes close to the truth ... more than you might think.



Go figure.

That's the point innit... Some see satire, some see ire, and only 1 really knows how it was meant. The rest play with projections of what they think the truth is without ever knowing the truth. I guess that's what makes satire work... or, ironically, not.

[jellywrestler]

I dunno why they don’t just put their tinfoil hats on.

. you're not wrong

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300527308/wellington-protesters-fear-secret-tech-weapons-at-parliament

[Laava]

Seems to me it is a tiny group with good intentions who have a valid point, mixed in with a bunch of other groups with wildly varying ideas and notions, bound together by a majority bunch of militant agitators and conspiracy theorists.
Yes it is safe for our kids!
The govt is trying to fry our brains with EMF man!
Hypocrisy central.

[FJRider]

That's the point innit... Some see satire, some see ire, and only 1 really knows how it was meant. The rest play with projections of what they think the truth is without ever knowing the truth. I guess that's what makes satire work... or, ironically, not.

Satire is the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices.

If you use anger, you're doing it wrong.

[R650R]

The police will not allow protestors to take over harbour bridge....

There will be no walk across the bridge.... Nek Minnitt....

[TheDemonLord]

Is that the same NZ suicide rate that has declined the last two years in a row ? and other countries with lockdowns have seen something similar, you mean that suicide rate ?

Is that suspected or Confirmed in NZ you are talking about - because according to here:

https://minhealthnz.shinyapps.io/suicide-web-tool/

You'll note curiously that the Confirmed stopped at 2018.

The UK also has a backlog of Coronial cases, there's been in various US states there's been differences.

[TheDemonLord]

TLdr before i put him on ignore liked to blame suicide on women. He supported women being forced to remain married to men against their will.
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/140713-Stupid-World?p=1131125302#post1131125302

Okay you Dunce.

Do you know what 'Enforced Monogamy' means in the Clinical Context?

It means that as a society, we don't allow Polygamy. It's illegal in NZ. It's frowned upon by Society. That's not the same as what you are trying to make it out to be.


He often likes to make up stats and was quite contrite that if shown to be wrong that, if the stats clearly didn't match his opinion he was to his own mind still clearly right.
You know just a average conspiracy theorist winging pom.

Go on - Shall we look at the Stats in that disagreement? You remember - the ones that you posted that disproved your point and you got butt-hurt and put me on Ignore? The ones that show whilst Women attempt suicide more often than Men, Men have a higher success rate? That is a Man will try to commit suicide once, and succeed - because they tend to use much more violent and immediately lethal means, whereas Women may attempt suicide multiple because (on average) they use less-lethal means.

[FJRider]

Is that suspected or Confirmed in NZ you are talking about

https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/10/04/nz-suicide-rate-drops-for-second-consecutive-year/

[pritch]

They did indeed have an open door policy there ... :lol:

I believe that particular door is at Burnham these days.

Meanwhile back at Parliament... It's getting very difficult to tell what's real and what's a joke.

[FJRider]

I believe that particular door is at Burnham these days.

Meanwhile back at Parliament... It's getting very difficult to tell what's real and what's a joke.

I believe so.


The joke is real.

[FJRider]

Is that suspected or Confirmed in NZ you are talking about ...

There are regarded to be four main causes of Death in NZ.

1. Murder. ie: Someone OTHER than the victim intentionally caused the death.

2. Natural causes. ie: Cancer / Organ failure

3. Suicide. ie: No other person believed to be involved. And in circumstances that indicate / is believed (hence suspected) they caused their own death.

4. Road / Motor vehicle accident. :ie involving one or more motor vehicles on a road or street.

The cause of death as such, is declared by a Coroner.

[TheDemonLord]

https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/10/04/nz-suicide-rate-drops-for-second-consecutive-year/

So, suspected.

Not Confirmed.

[FJRider]

So, suspected.

Not Confirmed.

Read the post above this one I'm now quoting ... regarding causes of death. And a coroners ruling in regards to a cause of death.

[TheDemonLord]

Simple mathematics ... The roughly 10% of any population (that has ANY say in the matter of any covid restrictions placed on them by their Government ... Vs the world wide antislavery movement ... that changed governments ... and caused wars.

Except for the teensy tiny detail that when the laws were changed, attitudes were overwhelmingly against it.

Again, Appeal to principle won, not weight of numbers.



With what I've seen of the Wellington mob ... any appeal to principals seems ironic.



If those capable of suicide during lockdown ... they were well capable of suicide prior to it. All they needed was an excuse.

As the saying goes ... any excuse is better than none.

Everyone is capable of Suicide.... However, loosing a Business, Loosing Relationships, social isolation, stress....



Judging by the rabble mob in Wellington ... they are hardly qualified to judge levels of risk. Even some on here believe "Fresh Air" will cure you of Covid.

How many of that unmasked mob CAUGHT Covid there .. ?? and you claim they are qualified to judge risk ... REALLY ... ??

Who, among you, is qualified to judge their level of Risk?
Who, among anyone, is qualified to judge YOUR level of Risk?

All of us, on the website, regularly take risks that most people see as unnecessary. And it's not like we don't have the Accident and Death rate to point to it being an objective risk.

'How many of that Motorcyclist mob have injured themselves there? And you claim they are qualified to judge risk... REALLY... ??'

Same principle.


The mob in Wellington had that freedom. See how well it worked out.

It wasn't free from coercion, so it was not freedom.



Rash and ill thought out actions do more harm than good. and not usually in your own best interest.

You mean like locking down an entire country, Savaging the economy? Stunting the next generations development?


True ... I tied this chick up one time (long story) ... :shifty:
Neither did the chick I mentioned ...

Sounds like fun times.


But To the contrary of your claim ... more and more German officers near the end ... actually DID. And they got to live.

Go figure

They chose the winning side. Bit of a difference.


I did say ... Closer to the truth than local stations.

World wide ... not so much.

Your perception of things is a little out. Well ... needs work.

Which world wide stations would you put in that list then?

[TheDemonLord]

That's actually quite good. These days I usually scroll past most of your stuff, your mental contortions are just not worth the trouble. Couldn't miss that one though.

I aim to please....
















(unlike a Stormtrooper)

[TheDemonLord]

Read the post above this one I'm now quoting ... regarding causes of death. And a coroners ruling in regards to a cause of death.

The point being made, that the official stats don't have confirmed suicide data past 2018, as per your article - it's suspected suicides.

Granted most of them will be mere formality, but suspected doesn't equal confirmed.

[Kickaha]

The point being made, that the official stats don't have confirmed suicide data past 2018, as per your article - it's suspected suicides.

Granted most of them will be mere formality, but suspected doesn't equal confirmed.

You're just being aa argumentative cunt because your lying bullshit was caught out, so what happed if the suspected suicides turn out not to be a suicide ? it
will be an even bigger decrease in suicides that's what, either way you were talking shit

It's enough to show you were talking shit or do you want to ignore the press release by the Ministry of Health and Mental Health foundation as well which they had to do because of idiots like you spreading the lie about increases in suicides

There is official data to June 2021 which shows the decrease

[TheDemonLord]

It's enough to show you were talking shit or do you want to ignore the press release by the Ministry of Health and Mental Health foundation as well which they had to do because of idiots like you spreading the lie about increases in suicides

There is official data to at least 2020 which shows the decrease

The official data, as per the link I posted is suspected.

Suspected =/= confirmed.

Personally - I know of several people whose mental health took a nose dive during lockdown.

One started smoking again (despite not smoking for 10 years)
Another had a Daughter that had to spend time in a facility due to Lockdowns exacerbating her eating disorder (2 years without incident)
Another had issues because they couldn't visit their therapist for several months

So, based on what I have directly observed due to Lockdowns - with people I personally know, yeah - I do believe that the suspected Suicide stats aren't telling the whole story and when we get the confirmed stats, we might get a different picture.

As for the Government response - you'll forgive my cynicism of them towing the party line of 'No, there was nothing wrong or immoral with Lockdowns'

[husaberg]

It's enough to show you were talking shit or do you want to ignore the press release by the Ministry of Health and Mental Health foundation as well which they had to do because of idiots like you spreading the lie about increases in suicides

There is official data to June 2021 which shows the decrease
He has previously claimed to know more the The NZ mental health foundation.
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/140713-Stupid-World?p=1131125016#post1131125016
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/140713-Stupid-World?p=1131125308#post1131125308
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/140713-Stupid-World?p=1131125154#post1131125154


The letter was written on behalf of he NZ Mental health foundation the person who wrote it happens to be woman
Are you seriously that out of touch with reality.
https://www.mentalhealth.org.nz/home/news/article/177/open-letter-to-wanganui-chronicle-editor-mark-dawson


Why would you think you would know more about suicide in NZ than the NZ mental health foundation does?

ps as well as liking twiight novels Sophia has a BA from the University of Auckland, majoring in psychology.

pps i notice still have yet to produce any facts just opinions.


You claimed to have produced evidence from prominent experts directly linking Suicide to causes other than what is clearly spelled out as being factors.
You have not done so yet but keep on making out you somehow have.
You claimed the reason there was a difference between male and female suicides and it was directly attributed to "RADICAL FEMINISM"
Even though its clear more females actually attempt suicide, A fact you keep glossing over in the hope no one notices.
I have asked you to produce evidence that the cause of Male suicides is Racial feminism over and over again, So where is it?
All you are posting is your opinion.

ps I really enjoy how your continued anti feminist rants ignore that more women attempt Suicide plus also there has been a larger number of males as far back as the 1920's that die from Suicide which is generally associated with there freer access and familiarity with firearms. But bugger the logic Maybe in your mind the rot really started with those women getting the vote.:msn-wink:

So in your leaned opinion (that is i am sure even better then the LTSA judging by your disdain showed for the NZ mental health foundation)
Is radical feminism also responsible for the Crash stats and deaths that show men are far more likely to die /mile than women traveled as well.
340877

Or could there possibly be other reasons


To put it bluntly Your points are pointless, Yet they are far still far sharper than your barbs.



So was Harry potter, a shit load of John grishman novels, lord of the rings, the da vinci code, as was the Female eunuch by Germaine Greer
Which you dismissed as being radical feminism so that another of your misses. Especially considering she is a hell of a lot more famous than your kermitt the frog.
Mcdonalds sells a lot of food but it doesnt mean it is goof=d for you or the best food, Peterson is fodder for his target market.



Was was silly was for you to claim it suicide was the biggest killer of under 25's when you really ment only in a country in certain years. And that it was epdemic proportions when the truth was it was actually dropping and not only that female suicides were not static as you had said for those years you later specified they had risen by 40%. to get around the 40% rise you then tried to use a different set of years for the females. which you have never explained you just ignore that.
To top it all offf you then blamed radical feminism for the difference in the male adn female stats only issue is there is many other reasons behind the difference and no one other than Peterson cults thinks its radical feminism.
Nor does it explain why that difference has always existed.



Whatever no one else cares what you think enough to argue with you. Even cassina or whoever Graystone is, cant be bothered
i cant be arsed multiquoted you in replies its not worth the effort. 4/5 of your replies are plucked out of thin air.
You claim everything is proof, because you ignore anything that doesn't suit. You have the strongest confirmation bias this side of Katspam.
Any thing on one side for you is proof any thing contrary is ignored or dismissed as not be significant to you, Yet this is what the worlds experts in suicide say, but you claim to know better.
Just like your total dismissal of the NZ mental heath foundation letter.

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/140713-Stupid-World?p=1131125523#post1131125523
Not to mention the FBI the US supreme court other Judges all credible historians and many other actual professionals.

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/185771-Free-speech?p=1131109834#post1131109834
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/185625-Tommy-Robinson?p=1131118602&highlight=supreme+court#post1131118602
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/42615-The-firearm-thread/page641?p=1131177156#post1131177156

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bd/37/a2/bd37a236a5afb808f89e735660d03ee9.jpg

[TheDemonLord]

He has previously claimed to know more the The NZ mental health foundation.
Not to mention the FBI the US supreme court other Judges many other actual professionals.

I never said any of that - what I did say was that in the case of the NZ Mental Health foundation - they subscribe to a Woke worldview. And so certain theories as to why Men kill themselves at a higher rate than Women (also bonus point - remember when you tried to say that wasn't true, and your own data proved you wrong?) were verboten because they run counter to that worldview.

Are those theories correct? Maybe, maybe not. The Fact that they aren't allowed to be explored because they are politically incorrect is an issue.

[Stylo]

He has previously claimed to know more the The NZ mental health foundation.
Not to mention the FBI the US supreme court other Judges all credible historians and many other actual professionals.

And this Demon lord 'individual' is questionable in other areas. He claims to be on a 6 figure salary. I'd like him to prove it. With facts. Not like his Donald .

Yet he spends all of his time on social media. How does he earn his 6 figure salary he claims doing that ? He's also admitted he wasn't born in this country. If he doesn't like it, he should go back to where he came from. Tomorrow.

Houston. we have a problem. If he's what he says he is, I'd appreciate his credentials. We're not stupid.

This little man doesn't know what freedom is.

[Kickaha]

Personally - I know of several people whose mental health took a nose dive during lockdown.


Personally I know of several people whose mental health improved dramatically during lockdown, my own included, because we no longer had to deal with people in General and the world got a lot quieter

All of which has fuck all to do with you lying about the increase in suicides

You've been shown to be wrong but you're such an arrogant twat you wont admit it

deflect, deflect, deflect

[mulletman]

https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/10/04/nz-suicide-rate-drops-for-second-consecutive-year/

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/suicide-numbers-in-south-second-highest-in-more-than-a-decade/5LP7UM57H7JVOUTHZZ56N4ZE54/

[mulletman]

Looked like a lovely day for a walk over the AK harbour bridge

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/127894445/covid19-antimandate-protesters-hkoi-over-auckland-harbour-bridge

[FJRider]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/suicide-numbers-in-south-second-highest-in-more-than-a-decade/5LP7UM57H7JVOUTHZZ56N4ZE54/

If you look carefully ... you can see the numbers quoted in Pink (your favorite colour ??) is for ALL DHB's (reaching almost 700 deaths in 2018)... which as you can clearly see ... ARE DROPPING. And have been for the last four years.

The figures in Blue ... are the Southern DHB's ... which actually clearly show ... they have Consistently been considerably LOWER (Less than 100 deaths per year. ANY year) than NORTHERN areas.

OBVIOUSLY (as is clearly shown if you deduct the Southern death figures from that total)) ... the NORTHERN areas have a HIGHER suicide rate than the Southern areas.

The South is still a a great place to live.



A GREAT GRAPH. You backed up MY point well. WELL DONE.

THANK YOU ... :yes:

[FJRider]

The point being made, that the official stats don't have confirmed suicide data past 2018, as per your article - it's suspected suicides.

For your pleasure ... recently posted for my benefit.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/suicide-numbers-in-south-second-highest-in-more-than-a-decade/5LP7UM57H7JVOUTHZZ56N4ZE54/

As per my post to you ... the coroner's court has the final say.

Unless Police have a belief that the cause of death is other than suicide ... it is not investigated.

However ... for reasons of courtesy to the family's involved in any suicide ... the policy of the "Suspected" tag usually remains. Even with clear cut cases. Usually up to the individual Coroner to decide.

There is still a stigma with many regarding suicide. This policy is an attempt to reduce that issue.


Granted most of them will be mere formality, but suspected doesn't equal confirmed.

As explained above.

[TheDemonLord]

And this Demon lord 'individual' is questionable in other areas. He claims to be on a 6 figure salary. I'd like him to prove it. With facts. Not like his Donald

Yet he spends all of his time on social media. How does he earn his 6 figure salary he claims doing that ? He's also admitted he wasn't born in this country. If he doesn't like it, he should go back to where he came from. Tomorrow.

Houston. we have a problem. If he's what he says he is, I'd appreciate his credentials. We're not stupid.

This little man doesn't know what freedom is.

Okay then, let's suppose I produce the proof, what do you do? I'll accept a public apology, a formal retraction and a promise not to post any more xenophobic vitriol about Foreigners.

Here's a pro-tip, as an IT professional, I can type *quite* fast, most of my posts take me less than a few minutes and are actually a very good way for me to stop thinking about whatever it is I'm currently working on, so I can approach it from a different angle. Engaging different parts of the brain and all that.

[TheDemonLord]

Personally I know of several people whose mental health improved dramatically during lockdown, my own included, because we no longer had to deal with people in General and the world got a lot quieter

Okay, sure, I can believe that for some people Lockdowns were great, from the people I personally know, it ranged from tolerable to very stressful.


All of which has fuck all to do with you lying about the increase in suicides

You've been shown to be wrong but you're such an arrogant twat you wont admit it

deflect, deflect, deflect

Well, when the confirmed stats come out, we shall see.

[husaberg]

You've been shown to be wrong but you're such an arrogant twat you wont admit it

deflect, deflect, deflect

That's exactly the MO he operates under, only with endless multi quotes claiming victory.

https://miro.medium.com/max/1400/1*frzvNEHUWUNVToMpNlhwjw.png

[TheDemonLord]

That's exactly the MO he operates under, only with endless multi quotes claiming victory.

As opposed to putting someone on Ignore, then endlessly posting false statements about them...

[mulletman]

If you look carefully ... you can see the numbers quoted in Pink (your favorite colour ??) is for ALL DHB's (reaching almost 700 deaths in 2018)... which as you can clearly see ... ARE DROPPING. And have been for the last four years.

The figures in Blue ... are the Southern DHB's ... which actually clearly show ... they have Consistently been considerably LOWER (Less than 100 deaths per year. ANY year) than NORTHERN areas.

OBVIOUSLY (as is clearly shown if you deduct the Southern death figures from that total)) ... the NORTHERN areas have a HIGHER suicide rate than the Southern areas.

The South is still a a great place to live.



A GREAT GRAPH. You backed up MY point well. WELL DONE.

THANK YOU ... :yes:

The graphs only tell part of the story in the article.....didnt back up your point from a few pages back where i saw your link.

Rates of Police call outs for Southern have gone UP 550.

Also the article says that the FULL IMPACTS of COVID on mental health were still to be see.

I do agree the South is a great place to live

[FJRider]

Except for the teensy tiny detail that when the laws were changed, attitudes were overwhelmingly against it.

Again, Appeal to principle won, not weight of numbers.

Again ... The "Minority" that caused the downfall of slavery and the legalization of Homosexuality ... was far greater than the NZ unvaxxed mob and their supporters will ever be. Anti slavery and Gay rights groups were/are world wide ... and still breeding.

And as YOU said ... WHEN THE LAWS WERE CHANGED ... Some laws and regulations still remain. SOME are not popular ... agreed.



With what I've seen of the Wellington mob ... any appeal to principals seems ironic.

I thought I posted that ... ?? ... :scratch:


Everyone is capable of Suicide.... However, loosing a Business, Loosing Relationships, social isolation, stress....

Life can be tough. Get over it. Some just take/prefer the easy way out. Well for THEM anyway. The one's they leave behind I feel for.

Consider this though ... If you killed yourself ... just think how much less data would be required here on Kiwibiker ... :lol:

Just saying ...




Who, among you, is qualified to judge their level of Risk?
Who, among anyone, is qualified to judge YOUR level of Risk?

I'm ex military remember ... but that doesn't make me an expert at deciding the exact risk levels ... just trained to mitigate (does not always mean reducing, just dealing with it) risk where possible.

To that effect ...doing something ... is better than doing nothing. And getting the fuck out of your situation ... most certainly counts as doing something.


All of us, on the website, regularly take risks that most people see as unnecessary. And it's not like we don't have the Accident and Death rate to point to it being an objective risk.

Correct risk mitigation is required. Get it wrong ... the old "I never thought that would happen" scenario occurs. Or you might die.

Personal choice ... but I prefer to live.


'How many of that Motorcyclist mob have injured themselves there? And you claim they are qualified to judge risk... REALLY... ??'

Some "Fall Off" on a regular basis ... are they .. ??

Some NEVER do. Are they "QUALIFIED" ... or lucky .. ??


Same principle.

Famous last words ... "That's the way I always ride ... and the way I'll continue to ride until I die".

Principals ... nope.



It wasn't free from coercion, so it was not freedom.

I was talking about the actual protest on site. What were they coerced into doing .. ??


You mean like locking down an entire country, Savaging the economy? Stunting the next generations development?

But everybody ... ok most .. got to live.

As far as the economy goes ... the Government can still afford to pay all those on a Benefit.

I can still go to Cafe's and Restaurants .. stay in Motels ... life pretty much the same as it was.


Sounds like fun times.

It's been so long ... I forget which of us got tied up ...


They chose the winning side. Bit of a difference.

The Germans were on the losing side ... remember .. :rolleyes:


Which world wide stations would you put in that list then?

I seldom listen to radio any more ... unless I'm driving. The South doesn't have many world wide stations that play music.

[FJRider]

Also the article says that the FULL IMPACTS of COVID on mental health were still to be see.

I do agree the South is a great place to live

If the Government really wanted to save lives ... they'd lower the National speed limit to 80 km/hr.




More lives would be saved than those that died of Covid and/or suicide each and every year.


Go figure.

[FJRider]

Personally - I know of several people whose mental health took a nose dive during lockdown.

Personally ... I know several people that got fatter during Lockdown. Is that similar .. ??


One started smoking again (despite not smoking for 10 years)
Another had a Daughter that had to spend time in a facility due to Lockdowns exacerbating her eating disorder (2 years without incident)
Another had issues because they couldn't visit their therapist for several months

Real world crises ... Auckland ... right .. ??


So, based on what I have directly observed due to Lockdowns - with people I personally know, yeah - I do believe that the suspected Suicide stats aren't telling the whole story and when we get the confirmed stats, we might get a different picture.

The numbers of listed suicide deaths are real. Some may be cases of accidental overdose ... or simply just an accident. If it cannot be confirmed as suicide (ie: no suicide note left) ... it can just then be regarded as an unconfirmed suicide. Especially if the person concerned has a record of poor mental health.

As such ... the figures will not change. The deaths though ... are DEFINITELY confirmed.

Sorry to burst your bubble.


As for the Government response - you'll forgive my cynicism of them towing the party line of 'No, there was nothing wrong or immoral with Lockdowns'

Nothing wrong with the protesting rabble in wellington claiming they haven't got covid either.

But the initial lockdown DID cause some of the lowest paid and the most ignored/despised workers in the ENTIRE country ... to be ESSENTIAL WORKERS.

And were then ... praised and applauded.





After lockdown ... not so much.




Go figure.

[Berries]

Exactly. His gutless quotes Have no credible sources. None of them.

Funny how he's gone quiet now he's been asked to be truthful.

Donald Trump was like that.. he promised he would supply his Tax returns.

And build his Border wall. Promised. Multiple times on both counts.

They never happened. I have no time for liars. And people who make statements but have no evidence to clarify and confirm them.

I don't do stupid.
Not wanting to defend him but you seem to have lost the plot over the last couple of weeks. See the post above yours? That was his like half an hour before yours so hardly gone quiet. If he promised to post his tax returns I will take it all back but pretty sure he would not have promised to build a border wall.

Not sure how you are linking him to the ferals in Wgtn either when he is clearly not there. You posted that your kid had a few issues at Uni due to the protesters. You should go down there and sought it out as you wont get any satisfaction ranting at people on KB.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/oYYo49R_ZS0" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[TheDemonLord]

Again ... The "Minority" that caused the downfall of slavery and the legalization of Homosexuality ... was far greater than the NZ unvaxxed mob and their supporters will ever be. Anti slavery and Gay rights groups were/are world wide ... and still breeding.

Only 10%, which is lower than the 30% support for ending Covid restrictions. And worldwide - tell me, which overseas protest did the NZ one mirror? I can point to protests all over the western world.

The difference here is between approved protests and unapproved protests.


I thought I posted that ... ?? ... :scratch:

Bloody hell I'm getting sloppy! I thought I'd deleted that line - oh well, have a free one.


Life can be tough. Get over it. Some just take/prefer the easy way out. Well for THEM anyway. The one's they leave behind I feel for.

Consider this though ... If you killed yourself ... just think how much less data would be required here on Kiwibiker ... :lol:

Just saying ...

I dunno about you, but since certain infamous members got the banhammer, it has been a little bit duller round here. What would you do for entertainment when I'm gone?

And who would pay my taxes?


I'm ex military remember ... but that doesn't make me an expert at deciding the exact risk levels ... just trained to mitigate (does not always mean reducing, just dealing with it) risk where possible.

To that effect ...doing something ... is better than doing nothing. And getting the fuck out of your situation ... most certainly counts as doing something.

There's a difference between deciding exact risk levels and deciding YOUR risk level.


Correct risk mitigation is required. Get it wrong ... the old "I never thought that would happen" scenario occurs. Or you might die.

Personal choice ... but I prefer to live.

Right, ready for the big reveal?

If you get it wrong and you die, it was your fault. Full personal freedom and responsibility. This may seem Callous, but I'm okay with other people doing stupid things and dying of them.

I'm fine with the government providing advice and saying 'Hey, that thing? Yeah, don't do that, you might die'.

When the Government says 'We are worried you might die, we are going to take away your freedoms to make us feel better' - and especially when that comes at the cost of Bodily Autonomy - that can rightly Fuck off.


Some "Fall Off" on a regular basis ... are they .. ??

Some NEVER do. Are they "QUALIFIED" ... or lucky .. ??

It doesn't matter either way, all that matters is that they make the choice for themselves. Ride, don't ride. Vax, don't vax. Jump, don't jump. Not my decision, your decision.


Famous last words ... "That's the way I always ride ... and the way I'll continue to ride until I die".

Principals ... nope.

It's the same scenario.


I was talking about the actual protest on site. What were they coerced into doing .. ??

Are they free to use the services of any business in the area without having to show their papers? If the answer is that they aren't, then there is an element of Coercion to get them to be vaccinated.

In fact, I believe there's a sound bite of the Health Minister even admitting that the Vaccine Passport was primarily introduced to encourage vaccination.


But everybody ... ok most .. got to live.

As far as the economy goes ... the Government can still afford to pay all those on a Benefit.

Can it? It's saddled masses of Debt onto the future generation for ruining the Economy. It's not like they've used that money to build infrastructure or do something that will grow the economy.

As for most got to live - How much of that is due to Government policy vs NZ's unique set of characteristics.


I can still go to Cafe's and Restaurants .. stay in Motels ... life pretty much the same as it was.

Can you do it without showing your papers?
If your vaccine passport was revoked tomorrow (which it could be, despite you being vaccinated) would you still be able to do all of that?


It's been so long ... I forget which of us got tied up ...

Must not have been that memorable :P


The Germans were on the losing side ... remember .. :rolleyes:

Exactly.


I seldom listen to radio any more ... unless I'm driving. The South doesn't have many world wide stations that play music.

Same.

[TheDemonLord]

Not wanting to defend him but you seem to have lost the plot over the last couple of weeks. See the post above yours? That was his like half an hour before yours so hardly gone quiet. If he promised to post his tax returns I will take it all back but pretty sure he would not have promised to build a border wall.

Not sure how you are linking him to the ferals in Wgtn either when he is clearly not there. You posted that your kid had a few issues at Uni due to the protesters. You should go down there and sought it out as you wont get any satisfaction ranting at people on KB.

Well, when I'm eventually elected grand Dictator of NZ, one of my first policies will be building a wall across the Tasman sea to keep Australians out.

It's either that we annex the Gold Coast.

Still working on the minutae of that Policy.

[TheDemonLord]

Personally ... I know several people that got fatter during Lockdown. Is that similar .. ??

Actually, very much similar - seeing as being overweight is one of the risk factors for Covid. One would think that any sane Government would want to encourage people to exercise.


Real world crises ... Auckland ... right .. ??

Not even close.


The numbers of listed suicide deaths are real. Some may be cases of accidental overdose ... or simply just an accident. If it cannot be confirmed as suicide (ie: no suicide note left) ... it can just then be regarded as an unconfirmed suicide. Especially if the person concerned has a record of poor mental health.

As such ... the figures will not change. The deaths though ... are DEFINITELY confirmed.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

This sounds awfully a lot like when Labour 'decreased' the number of people on the unemployment Benefit... by putting them onto the Sickness benefit...

AKA Fudging the numbers to achieve a political goal.


Nothing wrong with the protesting rabble in wellington claiming they haven't got covid either.

But the initial lockdown DID cause some of the lowest paid and the most ignored/despised workers in the ENTIRE country ... to be ESSENTIAL WORKERS.

And were then ... praised and applauded.

Ignored and Despised by whom? I always say 'Thank you' to the Rubbish collector. I'm always polite to Nurses.

But here's the Rub - we've got the Financial data, the Poor got a lot poorer an the Rich - well, I read that Netflix, Microsoft, Amazon etc. increased their profits by (in some cases) nearly 50%.

I mean, I gotta be careful here, lest someone confuse me for an old-school Socialist - but does that not seem wrong to you? That the Government mandates your business be shutdown to the point where you might go out of business, yet the billion dollar mega-corps are allowed to remain open and not only that, but due to the Government mandates, they get 50% richer?


After lockdown ... not so much.

Go figure.

Again, by Whom?

[FJRider]

Actually, very much similar - seeing as being overweight is one of the risk factors for Covid. One would think that any sane Government would want to encourage people to exercise.

I think I might have mentioned in a post some time ago about that ... Fat useless fucks will be more at risk from Covid.

Take care now ...


Not even close.

The comment was sarcasm ... so ... not close to Auckland then .. ?? :innocent:


This sounds awfully a lot like when Labour 'decreased' the number of people on the unemployment Benefit... by putting them onto the Sickness benefit...

AKA Fudging the numbers to achieve a political goal.

The Coroners Court is similar to the Law courts. With similar political "Advisement". But none of those being inquired about ... go to jail.


Ignored and Despised by whom? I always say 'Thank you' to the Rubbish collector. I'm always polite to Nurses.

I've always despised fat useless fucks ... but that's just me.

But the supermarket staff, Home help, Bus drivers ... etc were always treated like servants. Until Covid hit.


But here's the Rub - we've got the Financial data, the Poor got a lot poorer an the Rich - well, I read that Netflix, Microsoft, Amazon etc. increased their profits by (in some cases) nearly 50%.

And the poor got poorer staying at home on the computer ... giving money to the rich. And now ... ALL the fault of the rich (Apparently).


I mean, I gotta be careful here, lest someone confuse me for an old-school Socialist - but does that not seem wrong to you? That the Government mandates your business be shutdown to the point where you might go out of business, yet the billion dollar mega-corps are allowed to remain open and not only that, but due to the Government mandates, they get 50% richer?

Feel fee to leave the country anytime you like. SOON is good for me. I'd hate for you to help make the rich richer.

Also ... feel free to vote in the next election. Saturday 23 September 2023 is the estimated date. Keep the day free in your diary.


Again, by Whom?

The very same people ... ;)

[mashman]

The graphs only tell part of the story in the article.....didnt back up your point from a few pages back where i saw your link.

Rates of Police call outs for Southern have gone UP 550.

Also the article says that the FULL IMPACTS of COVID on mental health were still to be see.

I do agree the South is a great place to live

Spoke to a few people on the mental health coalface recently. They are experiencing higher loads from all walks of life... but it's ok, once the economy is back up and running again, it'll all be fine and the middle class can go back to worrying about holiday destinations instead of lamenting the ability to not be able to go on holiday to help regain their sanity.

[FJRider]

... And worldwide - tell me, which overseas protest did the NZ one mirror? I can point to protests all over the western world.

Trumps ones come to mind.


The difference here is between approved protests and unapproved protests.

Is the rabble in Wellington an approved protest or not. And WHOM is in charge of giving the APPROVAL .. ??


Bloody hell I'm getting sloppy! I thought I'd deleted that line - oh well, have a free one.

A common issue with fat useless fucks. Try harder slim.


I dunno about you, but since certain infamous members got the banhammer, it has been a little bit duller round here. What would you do for entertainment when I'm gone?

There is this girl I know ... and I have rope ... ;)


And who would pay my taxes?

Don't look at me ...


There's a difference between deciding exact risk levels and deciding YOUR risk level.

Easy choices usually ...

Go forward ... FAST ... shooting ... or ... fast ... BACK ... SHOOTING.

Or variations on the above. Usually dependent on numbers (Yours and theirs).


If you get it wrong and you die, it was your fault. Full personal freedom and responsibility. This may seem Callous, but I'm okay with other people doing stupid things and dying of them.

But the really stupid thing is ... people will NOT admit THEY did anything wrong. Say ... If they were following another vehicle too closely ... and it stops suddenly. Guess who they blame ... Themselves for following too closely .. ?? NOPE ... it's always the one in front that gets the flak.

ALWAYS ... somebody (ANYBODY) else at fault.

Funny that ... ;)

If the TAB had bets on that rabble in Wellington catching Covid on site ... I would have put money on it ... that somebody would catch it there.

It would have cost me more in petrol money ... than I would have won though ... Go figure.


I'm fine with the government providing advice and saying 'Hey, that thing? Yeah, don't do that, you might die'.

NEWSFLASH ... it was not "ADVICE" ...

In any military ... getting sunburn is an offense. There are measures freely available to prevent it. Thusly ... if you get it ... you CAN be charged for getting sunburn.

Perhaps that rabble I mentioned above with Covid ... should also be charged ... because it WAS preventable.


When the Government says 'We are worried you might die, we are going to take away your freedoms to make us feel better' - and especially when that comes at the cost of Bodily Autonomy - that can rightly Fuck off.

In the terms of "Bodily Autonomy" ... you can either shove that up your ass ... or go fuck yourself.

In my opinion ... a personal choice in that regard ... :pinch:


It doesn't matter either way, all that matters is that they make the choice for themselves. Ride, don't ride. Vax, don't vax. Jump, don't jump. Not my decision, your decision.

Personally (if it WAS my decision [and it is not MY decision]) .. after three crashes of them being at fault ... their drivers license should be revoked. They are a danger to themselves ... and everybody else on the road.


It's the same scenario.

As per above. But nothing to do with principals.


Are they free to use the services of any business in the area without having to show their papers? If the answer is that they aren't, then there is an element of Coercion to get them to be vaccinated.

As you will be aware ... some places do not check (Personal choices .. lawful or not). BUT ... funnily enough ... LAW and Legislation ... has ALWAYS had the element of coercion ... ie: fines/jail etc. What's different here ... ???


In fact, I believe there's a sound bite of the Health Minister even admitting that the Vaccine Passport was primarily introduced to encourage vaccination.

Newsflash ... OVER 90% vaccination rate.

I guess it WORKED.


Can it? It's saddled masses of Debt onto the future generation for ruining the Economy. It's not like they've used that money to build infrastructure or do something that will grow the economy.

Those on a Benefit will hope so. If they aren't dead with Covid.

Perhaps ... a Benefit cut is in order then.


As for most got to live - How much of that is due to Government policy vs NZ's unique set of characteristics.

Even by comparison with the Aussies ... just next door (so to speak) OUR covid related death rate is much lower ... just a coincidence ... Maybe ?? :innocent:

"Unique Characteristics" .. ?? sorry ... what do you mean by that .. ??


Can you do it without showing your papers?
If your vaccine passport was revoked tomorrow (which it could be, despite you being vaccinated) would you still be able to do all of that?

You have asked that before (you do repeat yourself a lot) .. and I answered. Stay off the drugs ... they play merry hell with your memory.


Must not have been that memorable :P

au contraire


Exactly.

It was in reply to your comment that ...
They chose the winning side. Bit of a difference.

Remember .. ?? feel free to check that out yourself.

[F5 Dave]

3 from there in hospital with C19.

I blame govt EMP weapons.

[jellywrestler]

3 from there in hospital with C19.

I blame govt EMP weapons.

three known, how many others are tightlipped or have had a bump on their head and simply don't know where they've been?

[neels]

Was very amused by the outraged reporting today that they'd build toilets, and were probably discharging straight into stormwater drains to the harbour.

Approximately 5 minutes of looking at google maps and welly council maps determined they're plugged into a sewer main manhole, so while maybe a bit wiffy with an open sewer vent right there, no threat to the environment.

Makes you wonder why those reporting couldn't do the same before they burst into print.

[FJRider]

Was very amused by the outraged reporting today that they'd build toilets, and were probably discharging straight into stormwater drains to the harbour.

Approximately 5 minutes of looking at google maps and welly council maps determined they're plugged into a sewer main manhole, so while maybe a bit wiffy with an open sewer vent right there, no threat to the environment.

Makes you wonder why those reporting couldn't do the same before they burst into print.

For a group that's full of shit ... at least they're dealing with it .. :whistle:

[FJRider]

Well, when I'm eventually elected grand Dictator of NZ, one of my first policies will be building a wall across the Tasman sea to keep Australians out.

It's either that we annex the Gold Coast.

Still working on the minutae of that Policy.

I remember when it was one way traffic to Aus. Full planes going over ... empty coming home.


Until many started needing Hospital care ... that was free to Aussie citizens. Not to residents.

Or got homesick .... <_<


A simple one way bridge would be better. Free to leave ... only.

[FJRider]

Can you post that report please.

Thanks

https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/127900687/occupation-latest-three-protesters-in-hospital-with-covid-sewage-down-city-drains

[neels]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/127900687/occupation-latest-three-protesters-in-hospital-with-covid-sewage-down-city-drainsInteresting, now seems to have been amended to 'Wellington City Council has now confirmed are flushing into the city’s wastewater sewer network', almost as if someone has pointed out how easy it was to figure out. And the entire paragraph about how appalled everyone is about how the harbour is being treated has been removed.

That's almost getting into 1984 territory, where unless you've kept a copy yourself to prove that you're not going mad, the current version of the truth is the only version that ever existed....

[pete376403]

Interesting, now seems to have been amended to 'Wellington City Council has now confirmed are flushing into the city’s wastewater sewer network', almost as if someone has pointed out how easy it was to figure out. And the entire paragraph about how appalled everyone is about how the harbour is being treated has been removed.

That's almost getting into 1984 territory, where unless you've kept a copy yourself to prove that you're not going mad, the current version of the truth is the only version that ever existed....

What else can they do? Keep posting the previously incorrect version? Sure they might have done better research prior to the original going out but it's not like the media are welcome on the occupied ground. And, until the connection was made to the sewer, the waste WOULD have ended up in the harbour via the stormwater system.

[TheDemonLord]

Was very amused by the outraged reporting today that they'd build toilets, and were probably discharging straight into stormwater drains to the harbour.

Approximately 5 minutes of looking at google maps and welly council maps determined they're plugged into a sewer main manhole, so while maybe a bit wiffy with an open sewer vent right there, no threat to the environment.

Makes you wonder why those reporting couldn't do the same before they burst into print.

Something something vested interest in casting the protestors in a negative light something.

[FJRider]

That's almost getting into 1984 territory, where unless you've kept a copy yourself to prove that you're not going mad, the current version of the truth is the only version that ever existed....

As it is often ...even here on KB ...


Go figure.

[neels]

What else can they do? Keep posting the previously incorrect version? Sure they might have done better research prior to the original going out but it's not like the media are welcome on the occupied ground. And, until the connection was made to the sewer, the waste WOULD have ended up in the harbour via the stormwater system.
Perhaps noting that they had previously published incorrect or misleading information?

Or would that mean admitting that they were either too lazy to research properly, or were more interested in a good headline than actual facts.

[F5 Dave]

Actually you usually do see if they retract information and correct something written at the bottom.

[R650R]

Interesting, now seems to have been amended to 'Wellington City Council has now confirmed are flushing into the city’s wastewater sewer network', almost as if someone has pointed out how easy it was to figure out. And the entire paragraph about how appalled everyone is about how the harbour is being treated has been removed.

That's almost getting into 1984 territory, where unless you've kept a copy yourself to prove that you're not going mad, the current version of the truth is the only version that ever existed....

Good spotting I never got chance to see early version. But I believe you, I’ve seen stuff and the herald doing that before too. Rarely do they ever print an honest note of we made an error earlier.

A real red flag is when a MAJOR incident has just “ occurred “ and there’s is no mention of WHAT TIME that X did Y atvlocation Z....., it’s like they just guess the news instead of actual reporting....

Back to topic, why are crybabies at Council trying to involve Police in a civil matter of planning bylaw breaches? Police are not running orvmanaging an event, they are not landlords or leasees....
Cops prob think it’s a prank call when they ring....

[Berries]

I see the price of tin foil is going up.


https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketplace/health-beauty/medical-supplies/other/listing/3490430648

[pritch]

Something something vested interest in casting the protestors in a negative light something.

Nobody else needs to do that, they do a very convincng job themselves.

[pete376403]

I see the price of tin foil is going up.


https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketplace/health-beauty/medical-supplies/other/listing/3490430648

Some great questions and answers on that auction

[sugilite]

Perhaps noting that they had previously published incorrect or misleading information?

Or would that mean admitting that they were either too lazy to research properly, or were more interested in a good headline than actual facts.

Probably a combination of both.
No incident that Ive witnessed with my own eyes, ever married up with the media reported version, not once.

[Stylo]

Looks like the Feral component of this 'Peaceful' demonstration are getting their point across now. Setting fires and using pitchforks. That'll work.

It upsets me to hear there are still children in this mix.

I feel sorry for the Police.

[jellywrestler]

Looks like the Feral component of this 'Peaceful' demonstration are getting their point across now. Setting fires and using pitchforks. That'll work.

It upsets me to hear there are still children in this mix.

I feel sorry for the Police.

pretty radical clean up today, while it's not great is there any other way they could have done it at the end of the day?. My partners work has sent out a memo saying all rail travellers will be offered free taxis home, as the railway station is not far away and has toilets there.
why is it at every camp there's broken deck chairs...

[Stylo]

Seems the tree that I planted when I started this thread might be not far off the mark. February 11.

It's fruits are hanging off the branches now. Should have been chain sawed down right at the start. Just saying.


Not sure if these guys have a common mandate. Surprised the police have been so laid back now we're into day 4. Been watching the news.....

[pete376403]

"Protestors" found it necessary to destroy a childrens playground? How is that supposed to relate to Covid mandates?

[Stylo]

"Protestors" found it necessary to destroy a childrens playground? How is that supposed to relate to Covid mandates?

Yep. These clever guys are throwing bricks at the Police now.

That'll work too. Their families and Whanau must be proud of them.

[Laava]

Those cunts at the end throwing bricks finally got to do what they went there for.

[R650R]

Excellent work by Police on the darkest day in NZ history.

I say darkest day as there’s no coming back from this level of violence (by the protestors) which like every other escalation in criminal activity in NZ only normalises it next time around. Feral anti govt types will likely tag along on every issue now so future protests even of ‘approved’ issues will need good security....,

It was very interesting to see what type of people were left over after the herd was thinned from the previous large cross section of NZ society....

While overall it was a shocking display it only mirrored what certain feral elements resort to in working class suburbia when parties etc get out of hand (our trusty media never reports real crime levels)...

In hindsight we shoulda seen the fires coming whether on purpose or accident. A huge pile of disposable plastic accomodation that no one was prob going to take home (rock concerts have major probe with lazy millennials not taking tents home)...

One highlight when I switched to Te Karere news their reporters were at ground level not hiding in balconey, they had some good shots.

Crazy how many idiots were openly committing arson (definate jail term) knowing they are being filmed by media and cops with top of line zoom lenses. The gene pool really is shalllow...

[R650R]

Seems the tree that I planted when I started this thread might be not far off the mark. February 11.

It's fruits are hanging off the branches now. Should have been chain sawed down right at the start. Just saying.

Or even had a discussion at start would have taken wind out out of it. Just look at average episode of policecten 7 when cops turn up to some total munter bashing his wife they often don’t judge just atrest him straight away, they establish a dialogues and say hey mate having a bad day etc?

Jacinda got what she wanted, her press release was mostly about how disinformation lead the protestors here when she should have just talked about this behaviour is not acceptable. It’s quite clear my earlier predictions will come true soon, access to Internet will be govt controlled.... to stop disinformation and oh Labour Party youth camp scandals being talked about...
Never mind that the majority of people opposed to mandates weren’t about any conspiracies they just want to decide what goes in their bodies.

[jellywrestler]

"Protestors" found it necessary to destroy a childrens playground? How is that supposed to relate to Covid mandates?

there's a D in Mandate, and one in children and one in playground, simple as; that I think

[jellywrestler]

Crazy how many idiots were openly committing arson (definate jail term) knowing they are being filmed by media and cops with top of line zoom lenses. The gene pool really is shalllow...
same twats who commit robberies wearing labelled clothes, shoes etc, and then wonder why they get found out on facebook

[pritch]

Crazy how many idiots were openly committing arson (definate jail term) knowing they are being filmed by media and cops with top of line zoom lenses. The gene pool really is shalllow...

Ah but that wasn't the protestors, they are blaming Antifa. This protest started out as copycat, monkey see monkey do, and it's finishing the same way. Fuckwits.

Martyn Bradbury reported that the police were firing rubber bullets at the protestors. I'd have thought that newsworthy, but it doesn't seem to have made the news. This whole farce was based on misinformation, right to the end.

[jellywrestler]

Ah but that wasn't the protestors, they are blaming Antifa. This protest started out as copycat, monkey see monkey do, and it's finishing the same way. Fuckwits.

.

watching one of the brick throwers he was still at it for an hour, almost single handedly. if there was rubber bullets he wouldn't have lasted that long at all.
wonder how many of them will be gardening there soon on PD

[roogazza]

better late than never I guess..... wish I was 40years younger like in 81 !!!!350746

[pritch]

Doncha just love it...

[TheDemonLord]

Doncha just love it...

Not really, it's most improper.

[Stylo]

Not really, it's most improper.

Good reply. I don't deal with stupid, it's just too hard and you'll never win.

[R650R]

same twats who commit robberies wearing labelled clothes, shoes etc, and then wonder why they get found out on facebook

Our local PD has to turn off comments because about 50% are saying things that hurts the crims feelings....Thevother half are immediately tagging their family member (eg the wanted person) and laughing saying what ya been up too cuzz.... I really don’t think tbink they understand the technology lol

[R650R]

Ah but that wasn't the protestors, they are blaming Antifa. This protest started out as copycat, monkey see monkey do, and it's finishing the same way. Fuckwits.

Martyn Bradbury reported that the police were firing rubber bullets at the protestors. I'd have thought that newsworthy, but it doesn't seem to have made the news. This whole farce was based on misinformation, right to the end.

It was in media reports during the livestream by herald and one news but they called them “sponge” rounds.
The whole farce was NOT based on misinformation, many people were just against being forced to do something, against segregation of society especially after Jacinda promised no forced vax. But as pointed out in other posts the loss of job and access to bars and hairdresser etc effectively is force by default. Even crime released on patrol have greater freedom.....

Definitely wasn’t antifa, violence would have started earlier and delivery trucks would have prepositioned pallets of bricks. Soros is too busy with Ukraine ops to be running Wellington

I did love how the cop handled that weasel journalist trying to bleat about fire doing police job. That cop knew where he was going and hosed (sic) cold water all over that parade. It could only have been better if the cop had said I now understand why the protestors were giving the media so much stick lol
It was a civil unrest emergency and if hoses needed to bear on rioters it doesn’t matter whose holding it.

[pritch]

Not really, it's most improper.

Bollocks. The police rep was on the news tonight saying the same thing, if in more formal language. The FBI are stil arresting people from the footage of 1/6. Only the intelectually challenged are having a problem with this. Video evidence is evidence, what don't you understand?

[Berries]

Good reply. I don't deal with stupid, it's just too hard and you'll never win.
Is that the biggest u-turn ever?

Last week you were calling anyone who supported the protest a cunt and now you are agreeing the Police shouldn't go after the feral pricks who threw bricks at them?

[pritch]

Is that the biggest u-turn ever?

Last week you were calling anyone who supported the protest a cunt and now you are agreeing the Police shouldn't go after the feral pricks who threw bricks at them?

I's no good arguing with stupid. :whistle:

[TheDemonLord]

Bollocks. The police rep was on the news tonight saying the same thing, if in more formal language. The FBI are stil arresting people from the footage of 1/6. Only the intelectually challenged are having a problem with this. Video evidence is evidence, what don't you understand?

It's not the using of video evidence to arrest people that's the problem. It's the attitude, vindictiveness and malice behind the comment that is improper. Police shouldn't want to arrest people, they should be required to arrest people.

There's definitely an element of reveling in the exercise of power over those deemed 'undesirable' by the state and an almost glee at the prospect.

It's improper.

[R650R]

It's not the using of video evidence to arrest people that's the problem. It's the attitude, vindictiveness and malice behind the comment that is improper. Police shouldn't want to arrest people, they should be required to arrest people.

There's definitely an element of reveling in the exercise of power over those deemed 'undesirable' by the state and an almost glee at the prospect.

It's improper.

I’m with pritch on this. The rioters totally disrespected the police, it was a prison style riot without the walls. The only thing I disagree with is them talking about going after those who funded the protest (and no my neighbours never got their petrol vouchers lol).... cause that’s real deep whole to go down.... and embarrassingly most will have been funded by WINZ lol
It’s one thing to refuse to leave and stand motionless like a monk, but throwing rocks and endless verbal onslaught of personal attacks deserve no respect.

[pritch]

It's not the using of video evidence to arrest people that's the problem. It's the attitude, vindictiveness and malice behind the comment that is improper. Police shouldn't want to arrest people, they should be required to arrest people.



Perhaps you should consider that virtually the whole world can understand what's happening here, but you can't? Again.

If the cops, who had to stand while a bunch of malcontants, misfits, and assorted mental cases pelted them with paving tiles, want revenge I'm good with that. As long as it's within the law. And it is.

[jellywrestler]

I’m with pritch on this. The rioters totally disrespected the police, it was a prison style riot without the walls. The only thing I disagree with is them talking about going after those who funded the protest (and no my neighbours never got their petrol vouchers lol).... cause that’s real deep whole to go down.... and embarrassingly most will have been funded by WINZ lol
It’s one thing to refuse to leave and stand motionless like a monk, but throwing rocks and endless verbal onslaught of personal attacks deserve no respect.

Been waiting for the surplus food the group had stashed away to be donated to the foodbank, will they get it there or will it be dispatched to the picton square bunch of loiterers?

[TheDemonLord]

Perhaps you should consider that virtually the whole world can understand what's happening here, but you can't? Again.

Remember at one point in time, virtually the whole world could understand that the earth was flat...


If the cops, who had to stand while a bunch of malcontants, misfits, and assorted mental cases pelted them with paving tiles, want revenge I'm good with that. As long as it's within the law. And it is.

Upholding the Law is never about Revenge.
It's about Justice.

And those two things are wildly different. They may look similar on occasion, but they are not.

A Police force that is out for Revenge has betrayed it's function and their Oath.

As I said, that tweet is Improper.

[TheDemonLord]

I’m with pritch on this. The rioters totally disrespected the police, it was a prison style riot without the walls. The only thing I disagree with is them talking about going after those who funded the protest (and no my neighbours never got their petrol vouchers lol).... cause that’s real deep whole to go down.... and embarrassingly most will have been funded by WINZ lol
It’s one thing to refuse to leave and stand motionless like a monk, but throwing rocks and endless verbal onslaught of personal attacks deserve no respect.

I'm fine with the Police using the video evidence, I'm fine with them making arrests, I'm fine with prosecutions for whatever is warranted.

It's the attitude being expressed by the Police here - there's elements of vindictiveness and elements of threatening - both of which are improper.

[jellywrestler]

Remember at one point in time, virtually the whole world could understand that the earth was flat...



Upholding the Law is never about Revenge.


Maybe it wasn't revenge, more a promise that justice will come looking for you.

[onearmedbandit]

Funny thing is, that tweet may not even be real. There is no sign of it on their account.

[sugilite]

Funny thing is, that tweet may not even be real. There is no sign of it on their account.

I thought exactly the same thing when I read it, fake news, well rather than fake news, rather a cheeky meme from a non fan of the protesters.

[TheDemonLord]

Well, fooled me...

So, I'll need to walk back a few things if it wasn't the NZ Police that said it. Maybe there is some hope afterall...

[R650R]

Been waiting for the surplus food the group had stashed away to be donated to the foodbank, will they get it there or will it be dispatched to the picton square bunch of loiterers?

Homeless people need real food eg red meat, animal fat and potatoes. You try serve them up that nutritionless hippy vegan fake food it will be like a hand grenade to their intestines and kill them faster than covid!
Cleanup crew would have mistaken it for weeds and bulldozed it. And that put a smile on my face seeing all that diesel powered machinery promptly into action. You couldn’t have a better display of the need for gear that can hit the ground running and be refueled quickly onsite.

[R650R]

This article earlier had a byline/leader saying read what happened free of opinion, with facts only and no emotion of what it was like. Maybe they had an epiphany and realised that’s how the news is supposed to be done all the time....

Good read though about how it all fell into place in early hours


https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/300531982/battle-for-parliament-the-inside-story-from-among-the-protesters

[F5 Dave]

I see they have tried to take up digs a at Wainui marae. They'll get a good kicking there.

[MD]

I see they have tried to take up digs a at Wainui marae. They'll get a good kicking there.

Just reinforces their selfish principle that the universe was, in their eyes, built just for them to demand whatever they want and to give nothing back to others or society and to treat all other humans as shit. And if others occupying their universe expect to be treated as humans, throw shit at them. Thanks Dave I was happy and calm until now.

[F5 Dave]

Meh, have a beer or nice glass of red. They will eventually fuck off and annoy whoever is glad they are currently not there.