Speed and the law

[outlawtorn]

I read your reply then read your signature "life is not a rehearsal" , it made me laugh.

If you want to enjoy yourself riding you cant spend the entire time wondering what if? or trying to rehearse every possible little outcome!

Hell a jet could fall out of the sky, the only way to "know" one isnt is to keep looking up, but then you cant see the road.

no one "knows" anything, therefore you shouldnt have had driven to work this morning, a drunk could be driving home and hit you! after all you never know!

I suggest you change your sig.

Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?

[Ixion]

Of course the rider doing 160kph just "knew" that there was absolutely NO other cars/bikes/stock etc in the area or likely to suddenly 'appear' and to 'impede' his/her progress?

Well, yes, yes sometimes you do . They don't actually appear out of thin air.

And if another vehicle does enter the picture, then you slow down.

And if other cars/bikes/stock can appear unexpectedly (because there are side roads etc) then 100kph is too fast.

I repeat what I said before. 160 kph is *NOT SAFE* . 100kph is *NOT SAFE*. If you need a guarantee of absolute safety then don't ride a bike. (or drive a car for that matter). End of story.

Sticking to some magical speed limit number doesn't mean you are safe . The safe speed lkimit is 10 kph.

[Funkyfly]

Obviously I must keep my opinions to myself then? Damn I wish I had known! How dare I say something from my point of view!

I don't think I am any better than anyone in this group and I know I still have a lot to learn, but my experience draws from driving in cars and riding bikes.

If I am an idiot for opening my mouth and expressing my views then so be it, but I will always say what I feel, wrath of the group/certain individuals or not.

If you read my post, i didnt say you had to keep opinions to yourself, i was referring to your idea of being the ONLY one who can see the light as it were(im the only one to see the correct point of view), cause your wrong and you will just piss people off, due to the fact you were bemoaning the "shit" you were taking i was simply saying that your getting it because many feel your views are narrow minded, and by attacking riders you havent met, myself included as i have been known to travel over 100kph, you most likely going to get an ear bashing.

Express your opinions, thats what this forum is for, but dont moan about the crap you get!

[inlinefour]

Everyone breaks the law at some stage. Period. Whether its going 1KM over the limit, running a red light, orange light, not going past a school bus or crossing at the right speed. Its becomes a total problem when an individual continues to do it because they have not learnt from their mistakes. However no one has the right to judge another for breaking it once, well except the judge...
I sympathise with the owner of the rather large speeding ticket and I'm sure, like stated before, many of use could have been in that predicament at some stage.
Yes, your going to be working a while to pay the fine off, I have not idea how long, just that it'll be long and expensive. You are allready having to walk as they have taken your licience away and that can be the bit that hurts the most. Does that mean that you have to restart the licience program again and get a learners? That would be the worse bit of all.
However you appear to be taking it on the chin and standing up for your wrong doings, good on you mate.
As for those who are bagging this person, do you not really get out much? Whos' place is it really for you to judge??

[scumdog]

Well, yes, yes sometimes you do . They don't actually appear out of thin air.

And if another vehicle does enter the picture, then you slow down.
.

Hah! the cemeteries have lots of people put there by cars/trucks that appeared out of "thin air".

And sometimes when another vehicle enters the picture you slow down because you are embedded in said vehicle.

Do/say what you want but the above DOES happen.

[scumdog]

I read your reply then read your signature "life is not a rehearsal" , it made me laugh.

If you want to enjoy yourself riding you cant spend the entire time wondering what if? or trying to rehearse every possible little outcome!

Hell a jet could fall out of the sky, the only way to "know" one isnt is to keep looking up, but then you cant see the road.

no one "knows" anything, therefore you shouldnt have had driven to work this morning, a drunk could be driving home and hit you! after all you never know!

I suggest you change your sig.

At my age you realise that all you said above COULD happen, unlikely but still possible.

I'm just trying to temper "lets go out and be idiots 'cos nothing's going to happen" with "hey, have fun but have a little caution and be wary eh?"

If I was as paranoid and scared as bad as you say then I sure as hell would not be on a highway on anything as risky as a motorbike, I'd be in a HumVee wouldn't I?

P.S. I moved down here to get away from jets and the risk of falling engines!!- and I try to remove as many drunks from the road as possible! (PT)

[Ixion]

Hah! the cemeteries have lots of people put there by cars/trucks that appeared out of "thin air".

And sometimes when another vehicle enters the picture you slow down because you are embedded in said vehicle.

Do/say what you want but the above DOES happen.

Well, I've never seen one, in 40 years of riding . Every hazard I've ever encountered has been predictable (of course there are a bazillion times I predicted a hazard which didn't appear, so I slowed down unnecessarily. )

And if hazards are going to materialise out of the aether they will presumably do so at 100kph also

The cemeteries are more full of people who assumed that because they were sticking to the speed limit they were automagically safe

[scumdog]

The cemeteries are more full of people who assumed that because they were sticking to the speed limit they were "automagically" safe

Ah, I see where they went wrong, they trusted this "automagic" stuff you mentioned, do not trust it and go soothingly by lest you disturb the skid demon!

However autosol is a mighty fine polish!

And to finish: Yeah, some of those people WERE sticking to the "safe" speed limit but were cleaned up by somebody else that wasn't

[MSTRS:Me]

Yeah, some of those people WERE sticking to the "safe" speed limit but were cleaned up by somebody else that wasn't

Or was, but something else put it's nasty little spoke into the mix. Let's face it...no matter what you do out there, WE'RE ALL DOOMED!

[Wolf]

Hah! the cemeteries have lots of people put there by cars/trucks that appeared out of "thin air".

"It appeared out of thin air" = I had my head so far up my arse I can't see daylight = I was not paying attention to the potential risks = I was driving/riding beyond my capacity at the time.

"Magically appearing vehicles" belong to the same category of creature as trees that "leap out into the road" - they occur when the driver is not paying attention.

In my 20-odd years' experience (a lot less than many people here, I acknowledge) leads me to believe that cars/trucks (and many other things) appear out of driveways and side roads, over the crests of hills, from around blind corners or other vehicles or other obstructions to vision - but never out of thin air... and if I have not recognised the potential for something to "appear" in front of me and taken precautions then that is my own stupid fault.

Sometimes I can even manage to avoid the ones who appear from behind me out of my blind spot - you know, the ones who should have been taking precautions because of my presence in front of them.

Anyone who claims the object "just appeared" in front of them should not have been in charge of a vehicle at that time. Note: I am not talking about being broadsided, blind-sided or arse ended by idiots here, I am talking about failing to see the potential for someone or something (behaving either responsibly or foolishly) to suddenly "appear" in front of your vehicle.

I always assume that the driver approaching on a side road is a total fuckwit and is not going to give way - I've slowed down unnecessarily a lot of times but I've also avoided a few accidents that way because a couple of times, I've been right.

FYI I was doing 100km/h on those occasions and slowed down further - if I had hit the idiot, I would still have died at that "safe" 80-90km/h.

EDIT: And no "dis" intended of people who do see the threat but hit it anyway (most of us have done that, I know I have) - just those who claim it appeared out of "thin air".

[speedpro]

Which reminds me of the recent incident in another thread where the rider ran into the back of a 'stationary' station wagon leading up to the AK harbour bridge. My sympathy to all involved, but what the hell was he doing?

[Ixion]

"It appeared out of thin air" = I had my head so far up my arse I can't see daylight = I was not paying attention to the potential risks = I was driving/riding beyond my capacity at the time.

"Magically appearing vehicles" belong to the same category of creature as trees that "leap out into the road" - they occur when the driver is not paying attention.

In my 20-odd years' experience (a lot less than many people here, I acknowledge) leads me to believe that cars/trucks (and many other things) appear out of driveways and side roads, over the crests of hills, from around blind corners or other vehicles or other obstructions to vision - but never out of thin air... and if I have not recognised the potential for something to "appear" in front of me and taken precautions then that is my own stupid fault.

..
I always assume that the driver approaching on a side road is a total fuckwit and is not going to give way - I've slowed down unnecessarily a lot of times but I've also avoided a few accidents that way because a couple of times, I've been right.
..

What he said.

Actually, it's pretty much in the road Code. Ensure you can stop in half the clear road ahead. Just take it that a bit of road with a side access (farm gate, sideroad, house, driveway *ANYTHING* ; as well as bends, hill tops etc ) is *NOT* clear road. Unless/until you can see down it and ensure that it's clear.

Then the magically appearing hazards will stop appearing.

Only exception is feral animals and birds, which *can* appear out of nowhere (ie the grass at the roadside) . But they are not usually a too bad a hazard

Incidentally, in my experience this means travelling at **LESS** than 100kph on a lot of roads . So be it. And I will pull over and let you past.

And as Mr Wolf notes, it means a lot of slowing down for hazards that never actually appear . Again, so be it.

Just remember when slowing down for a hazard that might be, to watch the rear, cages won't be expecting you to slow down.

[Paul in NZ]

Well all this is well and good...

But the central question is, does occasionally riding at high speed make you a menace. I still say no, it does not, provided you pick your moments to do so.

However like all good arguments, we seem to have polarised opinion with extreme examples.

Let me just say this.

Yes, in the past, I have ridden very fast, in fact, as fast as my bike can go (ie not very fast at all) and in all likelyhood, some time in the distant future, I might do that again. That alone does not make me a danger to peoples families because, as others can assure you, I am a very conservative rider. If I'm uncomfortable with doing something, I don't do it. If I can't see around the bend, I don't go... Yes, sometimes I screw up, but I'm human after all...

What amazes me is that I will ride with people, who I KNOW have inferior bike control, judgement, ability, roadcraft (whatever you want to call it) and they are totally comfortable passing on the centre line into oncoming traffic at 120 plus on SH1. That gives me the screaming hebes as I'm then placing my life in the hands of 2 motorists. Crazy!

Now, sometimes, if I'm driving the car I see a biker doing something that seems nuts to me.. Yet when I'm riding, I revel in the higher seat, better visibility and superior agility of the bike and I can pass safely in places where I would never dream of passing in my car... Does that make me a killer?

I have ridden with people on this forum that can out ride me a 100%. They have bikes that are faster in second gear than mine is if it were dropped off a cliff and they are plenty fast... But they are usually pretty safe with it too. I can't begin to understand how they manage it, but I don't need to do I?

So yes, I ride fast sometimes, but always with consideration to the location, conditions and other people. Same deal, I have a pretty loud bike, it's old and time (and a big drill) has not been kind to what were pretty flimsy mufflers in the first place. I don't start it after 8:30 at home as next door have a school age child, I don't ride loudly in built up areas (ie choose a higher gear if I can) and try to be considerate.

Just because someone does something you don't understand or can't do, does not make them dangerous.....

Paul N

[Funkyfly]

Well all this is well and good...

But the central question is, does occasionally riding at high speed make you a menace. I still say no, it does not, provided you pick your moments to do so.

However like all good arguments, we seem to have polarised opinion with extreme examples.

Let me just say this.

Yes, in the past, I have ridden very fast, in fact, as fast as my bike can go (ie not very fast at all) and in all likelyhood, some time in the distant future, I might do that again. That alone does not make me a danger to peoples families because, as others can assure you, I am a very conservative rider. If I'm uncomfortable with doing something, I don't do it. If I can't see around the bend, I don't go... Yes, sometimes I screw up, but I'm human after all...

What amazes me is that I will ride with people, who I KNOW have inferior bike control, judgement, ability, roadcraft (whatever you want to call it) and they are totally comfortable passing on the centre line into oncoming traffic at 120 plus on SH1. That gives me the screaming hebes as I'm then placing my life in the hands of 2 motorists. Crazy!

Now, sometimes, if I'm driving the car I see a biker doing something that seems nuts to me.. Yet when I'm riding, I revel in the higher seat, better visibility and superior agility of the bike and I can pass safely in places where I would never dream of passing in my car... Does that make me a killer?

I have ridden with people on this forum that can out ride me a 100%. They have bikes that are faster in second gear than mine is if it were dropped off a cliff and they are plenty fast... But they are usually pretty safe with it too. I can't begin to understand how they manage it, but I don't need to do I?

So yes, I ride fast sometimes, but always with consideration to the location, conditions and other people. Same deal, I have a pretty loud bike, it's old and time (and a big drill) has not been kind to what were pretty flimsy mufflers in the first place. I don't start it after 8:30 at home as next door have a school age child, I don't ride loudly in built up areas (ie choose a higher gear if I can) and try to be considerate.

Just because someone does something you don't understand or can't do, does not make them dangerous.....

Paul N

This could not be put any better! Bang on dude.

[handy_dog]

[QUOTE=Honda]Everyone breaks the law at some stage. Period. Whether its going 1KM over the limit, running a red light, orange light, not going past a school bus or crossing at the right speed. Its becomes a total problem when an individual continues to do it because they have not learnt from their mistakes. However no one has the right to judge another for breaking it once, well except the judge...

You are allready having to walk as they have taken your licience away and that can be the bit that hurts the most.

The bit that hurts the most is when the skinny push-bike seat tries jam itself between your cheks... And I thought the Honda seat was hard after a 300k ride. Ha